NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080928/NEWS/809280321/-1/MARKET

Saw this in my local paper yesterday, just finally got a chance to post it. It's a bit of a long read, but pretty interesting.

Researcher believes he's found key that unlocks Egypt’s advanced scientific knowledge

Armed with a compass, ruler and an aerial photograph of the Giza plateau, Nightingale began to create an overlay, or template, for the complex.

"As an artist, when I start a project I begin with three things. I establish a center line, a horizontal and a reference point," he said.

Nightingale located the center point by drawing a line off the western face of the Great Pyramid and a bisecting line through the Pyramid of Kahfre.

After locating a center point, he drew a series of related circles and subdivisions, based on the location of a causeway at the site. Based on the simple proportions of a circle, he drew four, dividing the diameter by one-quarter, one-third and one-half, then divided these diameters and radiuses by factors of nine. He then drew lines through intersecting points of the circles and significant elements of the plateau.

With four circles and seven lines, he was able to explain the position of all nine pyramids in the Giza plateau.

Nightingale expressed the proportions of the circles as 4, 3 and 2.

The proportions were important, as they had other references in nature, Nightingale said. Among other things, 4-3-2 is the tuning of an "A" note in the musical scale of the ancients of that era. In music, the first three harmonics are produced at two, three and four times the original note's frequency.

If you square 432, you arrive at the speed of light in miles per second. And when you square the speed of light, you get the basic component of Einstein's theory of the relationship between energy and matter.

Nightingale said the template describes more than just the two-dimensional layout of the plateau. His theory applies to the elevation plans of the complex as well.

"The geometry explains the interiors of the pyramids, where objects like the sarcophagus are located using an elevation view." A sarcophagus is the case in where the mummy is placed at burial.


Nightingale said his template doesn't just relate to Giza. He has applied it to other ancient ruins. And he said it provides a mathematical framework to describe things as diverse as the structure of spiral constellations, DNA and music.

Nightingale used a nine-based system of numbers to divide the radius and diameters of his circles to determine his template. "That's how nature operates. The nine-based formula is more how nature assembles things," he said.

Nightingale found explanations of music in his theory. "There are sophisticated mathematics, musical proportions that are just stunning. Harmonics if you want to call it that," he said. He also refers to his theory as a harmonic view of nature.

Later, Nightingale and another craftsman were commissioned to do some carvings for Pope Benedict XVI. That led him to study religious symbolism. He found his Giza Template explained the geometry of these symbols.

He even applied it to the Great Seal of the United Sates, made famous in the movie "National Treasure." The template shows eerie alignments on both sides of the seal — as if the template predicts where objects are placed.

Those are the more interesting bits. I suggest reading the whole thing though.

So what do you guys think? Bunk theory? Genius Theory? Aliens really did help build the pyramids? The ancient Egyptians were aliens themselves???

Discussion please!

This also works if you use the Starbucks in Cairo instead of pyramids.

truth be told, thats kinda creepy. but intersting nontheless

i do think that aliens had somthing to do with the pyramids (be it build them, help build them, or send plans) and the whole speed of light and music thing makes perfect sense

i have a question for all of you (and future posters)
wich is a scarier thought: the fact that their is intellegent life on other planets, or the fact that there is no life on other planets...answer that!

Which is a scarier thought: the fact that there is intelligent life on other planets or the fact that there is no life on other planets...answer that!

The fact that there is non-intelligent life on this planet scares me most.

Umberto Eco, in Foucault's pendulum, has a character who does the exact same thing to a news kiosk.

There was a mystery of the Pyramids?

This also works if you use the Starbucks in Cairo instead of pyramids.

This.

Completely ridiculous. Well, more accurately, some of his geometric work could make sense, and there is evidence to suggest an aesthetic preference for certain ratios.

But any paragraphs linking it to the speed of light and Einstein? Unfounded nonsense, that's what. It's called a coincidence.

In fact, I'll be that with a complete account of your actions, the food you ate, clothes you wore, etc, for the last week, we could find enough coincidences to make a conspiracy theorist wet their pants.

Weren´t the pyramids a sort of calendar? Something about Orion´s belt or summat?

Am I watching too many films or sci-fi shyte? Gods, I need a life!!!

Weren´t the pyramids a sort of calendar? Something about Orion´s belt or summat?

Am I watching too many films or sci-fi shyte? Gods, I need a life!!!

They were tombs, where some of the Kings (and Queens) of Egypt were buried.

Next question?

There was a mystery of the Pyramids?

Yes, the mystery of why perfectly sane people continue to believe ludicrous assertions about them, usually about how their dimensions and locations correspond to something else. Something which sounds terribly significant but is, in fact, just a number.

if you square 4, 3, and 2, you end up with the speed of light in miles per second.....


Riiiight, ok. Ignoring the fact that "miles" is a purely arbitrary distance, decided as 5280 feet, which is itself an arbitrary distance, I'm fairly certain the ancient egyptians did not measure things in miles.

"Everybody who was studying this was using the Fibernachi series"*groan*
Bloody nutcase doesn't even know what things are called.

There's a mystery of the pyramids?

As someone said, read "Foucault's Pendulum" by Umberto Eco. Shows that numerological theories as this are as fascinating as they are complete bunk. You can prove and do anything with numerology. If you play with my bra size and my waist diameter, the first in inches and the second in centimeters, for example, you can get the date I lost my virginity. Isn't it fascinating? I was built by aliens.

if you square 4, 3, and 2, you end up with the speed of light in miles per second.....


Riiiight, ok. Ignoring the fact that "miles" is a purely arbitrary distance, decided as 5280 feet, which is itself an arbitrary distance, I'm fairly certain the ancient egyptians did not measure things in miles.

Oh, but the ALIENS did, see? They were British aliens. Time traveling from the 1800's. To build pyramids.

There was a mystery of the Pyramids?

Some people just find it hard to believe that a bunch of brown people whose diet was half sand could possibly pile a bunch of rocks together in a pyramidal shape and have it stand for five thousand years or so. Because, obviously, the ancient Egyptians were idiots and having things like police, doctors, dentists and suchlike doesn't indicate a highly advanced society with the capability to set up huge stones in an organized manner.
Of course, a lot fewer people debate that a bunch of people (typically depicted as wearing untanned animal skins, blue dye and looking rather like a neanderthal) could set up Stonehenge.

I'm all for aliens and such, but, really, I seriously doubt they'd fly all the way here just to pile rocks up so a bunch of barely civilized monkey-men could put dead people in them.
And if they did, they probably would've made them more secure, since, as I recall, none of the pyramids thus far discovered have actually had their tombs intact.
Furthermore, if I were an alien, I'd make my message to humankind a bit more clear. They're obviously pretty stupid aliens if they thought humans could decipher their 'giant pile of rocks' based communications system.

man invents, solves mystery of pyramids

As someone said, read "Foucault's Pendulum" by Umberto Eco. Shows that numerological theories as this are as fascinating as they are complete bunk. You can prove and do anything with numerology. If you play with my bra size and my waist diameter, the first in inches and the second in centimeters, for example, you can get the date I lost my virginity. Isn't it fascinating? I was built by aliens.

built/probed, whatever

http://images.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=PR&Date=20080928&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=809280321&Ref=V1&MaxW=570&MaxH=370&title=1&border=0

is it just me or do none of those circles even look like they do anything?

http://images.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=PR&Date=20080928&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=809280321&Ref=V1&MaxW=570&MaxH=370&title=1&border=0

is it just me or do none of those circles even look like they do anything?

But there's circles around the pyramids! That must mean that aliens designed them!

http://images.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=PR&Date=20080928&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=809280321&Ref=V1&MaxW=570&MaxH=370&title=1&border=0

is it just me or do none of those circles even look like they do anything?

But they're ALIEN CIRCLES. They dont have to make sense. They're beyond the comprehension of a petty semi-evolved monkey such as yourself.

It probably says, "Tasty mammals here. Good for probing," though.

Lmao, I knew you guys would get a kick out of this.

There was a mystery of the Pyramids?
Sure, the mystery is 'Why do so many people make up think the Pyramids are shrouded in mystery?'.

Though I prefer 'Why do aliens always use anal probes?'.

I can't wait until the long-lost papyri containing the minutes of the Greater Giza Zoning Board are found and it turns out that the pyramids were placed where they were because it was important to put a barrier between the local camel market and the housing projects.

"Plus, the Ten-Year Plan (approved by this very same council only two floods ago, let me remind you,) calls for the downtown district to be 50% Residential, 20% Commercial, 10% Industrial and only 20% Funereal, so clearly this proposed pyramid has to be built in another district unless it qualifies as a dual-use structure."

Though I prefer 'Why do aliens always use anal probes?'.

Why would you ever use anything else?

Though I prefer 'Why do aliens always use anal probes?'.

*shrug* Gotta probe something.

*shrug* Gotta probe something.

Can't the aliens just wet willy us once in a while, for variety?

I can't wait until the long-lost papyri containing the minutes of the Greater Giza Zoning Board are found and it turns out that the pyramids were placed where they were because it was important to put a barrier between the local camel market and the housing projects.

"Plus, the Ten-Year Plan (approved by this very same council only two floods ago, let me remind you,) calls for the downtown district to be 50% Residential, 20% Commercial, 10% Industrial and only 20% Funereal, so clearly this proposed pyramid has to be built in another district unless it qualifies as a dual-use structure."

That would be awesome. Somehow, wouldn't surprise me, since most advanced societies have bureaucracies of some kind.

People just can't seem to accept them for what they are, tombs for kings that the Egyptians built. Of course, they used to think that hundreds of thousands of slaves built them, until of course they found the sort of "Pyramid-builder company town" nearby, with doctor's/dentist's offices, pay dockets and such. Turns out Pyramid-building was a fairly respectable job (and given how long the pyramids took to build, a fairly safe job as well). The union must have been pissed when Pharaohs relocated to the Valley of the Kings for tombs instead, as it wouldn't have provided nearly as much work.

As for why they're so big and such, well, you might as well ask that of any monumental architecture. They built them that big because they could. It's a demonstration of power and all that stuff. I don't think the pyramids are all that mysterious, really.

The Sphinx on the other hand... it is a bit of a mystery, because it is thought by some to be significantly older than the pyramids, and doesn't have nearly as clear a purpose. Why build this giant Sphinx thing? What's the significance? It could be a tomb, as there are passageways inside, and behind one of the walls they know there's a hollow area, but they can't get to it because that would mean tearing a hole in that wall... I think the Sphinx is much more intriguing.

Stonehenge is also mysterious. We know the Druids used it, but it preceded them by a long time. The people who built it left no records. It seems to be basically a giant clock/calender. How it was built and who exactly the people who built it were, and why it was so important to them that they have this giant timepiece, nobody knows.

Of course, they used to think that hundreds of thousands of slaves built them, until of course they found the sort of "Pyramid-builder company town" nearby, with doctor's/dentist's offices, pay dockets and such. Turns out Pyramid-building was a fairly respectable job (and given how long the pyramids took to build, a fairly safe job as well). The union must have been pissed when Pharaohs relocated to the Valley of the Kings for tombs instead, as it wouldn't have provided nearly as much work.lolwut? We're found plenty of texts of the period describing in fair detail the lives of the average person and the power the bureaucracy had. The people who moved the stones were pretty close to being slaves (By our modern understanding, anyway). Of course there needed to be a significant infrastructure in place - for the architects, engineers, bureaucrats, and all the services they required -, and since building a pyramid kind of took a while, a lot of these arrangements had to be, in effect, permanent.

This didn't make the stone-movers any more respectable or powerful (Socially speaking) than the average farmer (Who had a habit of getting whipped if their harvest failed and they couldn't pay their taxes).

Though I prefer 'Why do aliens always use anal probes?'.
Refreshes the parts other probes can't reach.

The people who moved the stones were pretty close to being slaves (By our modern understanding, anyway).Hmm.. Yeah, I bet that's why they got away with going on strike demanding more make-up, because they were nothing but insignificant slaves.

I can confirm this theory, I just need to find the stargate! Trust me, I've almost found it!

lots of bullshit out of chance arrangements.

But there's circles around the pyramids! That must mean that aliens designed them!

oh, far be it from me to deny the extraterrestrial origin of the world's most stable shape to build with stone. i'm just noting that his circles don't exactly seem to even intersect much of anything.

lolwut? We're found plenty of texts of the period describing in fair detail the lives of the average person and the power the bureaucracy had. The people who moved the stones were pretty close to being slaves (By our modern understanding, anyway). Of course there needed to be a significant infrastructure in place - for the architects, engineers, bureaucrats, and all the services they required -, and since building a pyramid kind of took a while, a lot of these arrangements had to be, in effect, permanent.

This didn't make the stone-movers any more respectable or powerful (Socially speaking) than the average farmer (Who had a habit of getting whipped if their harvest failed and they couldn't pay their taxes).

I didn't say they ran the country. But they weren't slaves, either. Just because a job is "respectable" doesn't mean it's high up on the pecking order. I think factory work is a respectable job, but it's not particularly powerful.

Hmm.. Yeah, I bet that's why they got away with going on strike demanding more make-up, because they were nothing but insignificant slaves.

Lol, n00b got owned.

I didn't say they ran the country. But they weren't slaves, either. Just because a job is "respectable" doesn't mean it's high up on the pecking order. I think factory work is a respectable job, but it's not particularly powerful.

LoL
Factory workers earn almost 20% more then the average American.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=567456&page=3
And they lack debts from higher education.

And Unions have considerable power and represent one of the most solid voting blocks in the democratic party.

LoL
Factory workers earn almost 20% more then the average American.
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=567456&page=3
And they lack debts from higher education.

And Unions have considerable power and represent one of the most solid voting blocks in the democratic party.

True. I was just saying that I considered blue collar work respectable, whether or not it made you high in social standing.

People just can't seem to accept them for what they are, tombs for kings that the Egyptians built. Of course, they used to think that hundreds of thousands of slaves built them, until of course they found the sort of "Pyramid-builder company town" nearby, with doctor's/dentist's offices, pay dockets and such. Turns out Pyramid-building was a fairly respectable job (and given how long the pyramids took to build, a fairly safe job as well). The union must have been pissed when Pharaohs relocated to the Valley of the Kings for tombs instead, as it wouldn't have provided nearly as much work.

As for why they're so big and such, well, you might as well ask that of any monumental architecture. They built them that big because they could. It's a demonstration of power and all that stuff. I don't think the pyramids are all that mysterious, really.

The pyramids do match, in formation, the belt of the constellation of Orion. However, at that period in history, this is a feat of planning anyone capable of looking at the night sky and drawing could have done. The fact they managed to keep the alignment as they built all three is nothing more than a reflection of their ability to actually keep long-term projects.

Though, the purpose of the Great Pyramid actually is a mystery. They found graffiti in it, but all that does is tell you that someone could place graffiti. It might have been intended as a tomb, but it never got used as such. Then again, for all we know, it could have been intended to be what it is today... a tourist attraction. Even back then, nations were not unknown for building a structure purely for that purpose.

The Sphinx on the other hand... it is a bit of a mystery, because it is thought by some to be significantly older than the pyramids, and doesn't have nearly as clear a purpose. Why build this giant Sphinx thing? What's the significance? It could be a tomb, as there are passageways inside, and behind one of the walls they know there's a hollow area, but they can't get to it because that would mean tearing a hole in that wall... I think the Sphinx is much more intriguing.

There's no "thought" about it. Every bit of up-close examination of the Sphinx has shown it to be significantly older. The question is if the structure was originally natural or man-made. There's also the suspicion it was actually carved at first, then later altered. And we know that the structure was nearly completely buried by sand at least once, so a lot of the evidence for it being natural could be evidence added after the structure was already created.

There's also the distinct possibility the structure is a leftover of a religion that predated the Egyptian one and was merely repurposed.

Stonehenge is also mysterious. We know the Druids used it, but it preceded them by a long time. The people who built it left no records. It seems to be basically a giant clock/calender. How it was built and who exactly the people who built it were, and why it was so important to them that they have this giant timepiece, nobody knows.

Actually, as a clock, it fails. If you're going to build a giant timepiece like that, you put it on top of the hill. In addition, at the time it was originally built (before the later expansions), it was quite a bit smaller than today. They expanded it, altered it, and even changed construction materials over a period of centuries. And it definitely served a religious purpose, though what specific one we'll never know. Civilizations that left behind a lot more than they did have been completely erased from history, so we'll probably never figure it out.

Though, I should note that the most interesting theory I've heard is that we're dealing with a giant time lock. That the Great Pyramid, Stonehenge, and several other buildings are all part of a giant locking mechanism, with the operations of it scattered across time itself. You would have to have a time machine to be able to manipulate the mechanism. Thus, the idea is that the cultures in question did build it at the behest of aliens... just that the aliens came from another date in time and were human, instead of coming from another planet. Quite amusing, too.

Aren't there records that suggested workers got time off, didn't have to work full weeks and were well taken care of when injured on the job? Doesn't quite sound like slavery to me. Obviously those actually designing and overseeing were in better positions, but the people actually building weren't ripped away from their homes and forced to work, by my understanding, but it has been a while since I saw the documentary.

Though, I should note that the most interesting theory I've heard is that we're dealing with a giant time lock. That the Great Pyramid, Stonehenge, and several other buildings are all part of a giant locking mechanism, with the operations of it scattered across time itself. You would have to have a time machine to be able to manipulate the mechanism. Thus, the idea is that the cultures in question did build it at the behest of aliens... just that the aliens came from another date in time and were human, instead of coming from another planet. Quite amusing, too.

This theory sounds like someone took Hyperion a little too seriously.

Pyramid building worked wonders to soak up unemployed and force cohesion between the different groups that lived in Egypt.

Though, I should note that the most interesting theory I've heard is that we're dealing with a giant time lock. That the Great Pyramid, Stonehenge, and several other buildings are all part of a giant locking mechanism, with the operations of it scattered across time itself. You would have to have a time machine to be able to manipulate the mechanism. Thus, the idea is that the cultures in question did build it at the behest of aliens... just that the aliens came from another date in time and were human, instead of coming from another planet. Quite amusing, too.

That sounds a bit more logical than the guy who said the LHC will form a satanic wormhole to earth.

http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080928/NEWS/809280321/-1/MARKET


I'm confused. Why does the article say: "With four circles and seven lines, he was able to explain the position of all nine pyramids in the Giza plateau", when the picture clearly shows 8 lines, 6 circles, and 4 arcs?

The pyramids do match, in formation, the belt of the constellation of Orion. However, at that period in history, this is a feat of planning anyone capable of looking at the night sky and drawing could have done. The fact they managed to keep the alignment as they built all three is nothing more than a reflection of their ability to actually keep long-term projects.

Though, the purpose of the Great Pyramid actually is a mystery. They found graffiti in it, but all that does is tell you that someone could place graffiti. It might have been intended as a tomb, but it never got used as such. Then again, for all we know, it could have been intended to be what it is today... a tourist attraction. Even back then, nations were not unknown for building a structure purely for that purpose.
As a fairly advanced civilization for the time, the Egyptians were fully capable of aligning it with the stars, I think. They were highly organized and attentive to detail.

I wasn't aware that the Great Pyramid was never used as a tomb. I thought it had simply been robbed. Interesting.

There's no "thought" about it. Every bit of up-close examination of the Sphinx has shown it to be significantly older. The question is if the structure was originally natural or man-made. There's also the suspicion it was actually carved at first, then later altered. And we know that the structure was nearly completely buried by sand at least once, so a lot of the evidence for it being natural could be evidence added after the structure was already created.

There's also the distinct possibility the structure is a leftover of a religion that predated the Egyptian one and was merely repurposed.
It seems like every time they examine the Sphinx, with ever more advanced methods, it turns out to be older than they thought. The idea of them seeing a big rock in roughly the shape of something, and deciding to carve the surface to make it look even more like whatever they wanted makes sense.

I've also heard an idea that makes note of the head being proportionally a bit small. Some think that originally it had a Lion's head and that the Egyptians later carved the head to make it look like a Pharaoh. This would fit the idea that it's a leftover monument of a previous religion.


Actually, as a clock, it fails. If you're going to build a giant timepiece like that, you put it on top of the hill. In addition, at the time it was originally built (before the later expansions), it was quite a bit smaller than today. They expanded it, altered it, and even changed construction materials over a period of centuries. And it definitely served a religious purpose, though what specific one we'll never know. Civilizations that left behind a lot more than they did have been completely erased from history, so we'll probably never figure it out.

Though, I should note that the most interesting theory I've heard is that we're dealing with a giant time lock. That the Great Pyramid, Stonehenge, and several other buildings are all part of a giant locking mechanism, with the operations of it scattered across time itself. You would have to have a time machine to be able to manipulate the mechanism. Thus, the idea is that the cultures in question did build it at the behest of aliens... just that the aliens came from another date in time and were human, instead of coming from another planet. Quite amusing, too.

So Stonehenge doesn't work as a clock? That's weird. Naturally it was religious, most ancient cultures weren't in the habit of going to that much effort to build something that wasn't religious or semireligious.

That's the whole mystery, that we don't really know what the original significance was and probably never will, though hopefully new evidence will come to light. Or not, that might spoil the mystery.

Time travel? It's an inviting idea, but it's pretty far fetched, too.

This also works if you use the Starbucks in Cairo instead of pyramids.

There's a mathematical harmonic in my pants. :)

Hmm. Pyramids. Taste like chicken.

Aren't there records that suggested workers got time off, didn't have to work full weeks and were well taken care of when injured on the job? Doesn't quite sound like slavery to me. Obviously those actually designing and overseeing were in better positions, but the people actually building weren't ripped away from their homes and forced to work, by my understanding, but it has been a while since I saw the documentary.

The way I understand it, the Egyptians took care of their slaves. Their system of slavery was apparently not as bad as systems that came later. I remember reading about a pharoah attempting to end slavery and nearly having a slave revolt on his hands in response, but I can't find where I read it at. If true, it does suggest some interesting things about their system.

As a fairly advanced civilization for the time, the Egyptians were fully capable of aligning it with the stars, I think. They were highly organized and attentive to detail.

I wasn't aware that the Great Pyramid was never used as a tomb. I thought it had simply been robbed. Interesting.

I was quite surprised as well. The important evidence that it wasn't used for a tomb isn't what's there, but what isn't. It lacks the necessary writing on the walls that would normally mark a tomb. In fact, it has so little writing on the walls that there's little evidence to suggest what it ended up being used for. Theories range quite a bit, with the popular ones being that it was a tomb that never got used to it actually being a decoy tomb. Another is that it was intended as a practice place, so the rulers of the land could get used to the sarcophagi.

It seems like every time they examine the Sphinx, with ever more advanced methods, it turns out to be older than they thought. The idea of them seeing a big rock in roughly the shape of something, and deciding to carve the surface to make it look even more like whatever they wanted makes sense.

I've also heard an idea that makes note of the head being proportionally a bit small. Some think that originally it had a Lion's head and that the Egyptians later carved the head to make it look like a Pharaoh. This would fit the idea that it's a leftover monument of a previous religion.

The head is actually massively undersized for the body, even for a mythical animal. If you ever look up Egyptian depictions of a sphinx, you can note that the head is larger, proportion-wise, than on the Sphinx. The Egyptians were simply too familiar with anatomy to make such a mistake on a structure that size. It would be like us building a replacement for the Statue of Liberty, only making the head massively bigger and then trying to call it to proportion. And they were extremely meticulous and paid a lot of attention to detail in statues. Some of the statues they produced back then rival ones produced today for expert craftsmanship.

So Stonehenge doesn't work as a clock? That's weird. Naturally it was religious, most ancient cultures weren't in the habit of going to that much effort to build something that wasn't religious or semireligious.

That's the whole mystery, that we don't really know what the original significance was and probably never will, though hopefully new evidence will come to light. Or not, that might spoil the mystery.

Time travel? It's an inviting idea, but it's pretty far fetched, too.

Stonehenge does work as a clock today, but it wouldn't have in its original form. And it working as a clock today may just be a result of the fact the Earth's tilt tends to wobble a bit. Quite a few items intended to match up to astrological signs created back then don't match up today, or match up imperfectly, because of that.

But, yeah. The theories are seriously out there about Stone Henge, and the more practical ones often don't make any sense or turn out to have flaws. And the evidence of blood sacrifice certainly provides some evidence that the site definitely wasn't intended as a calendar. Then again, it would be just our luck to discover time travel and then find out it was built as a brothel...

Aren't there records that suggested workers got time off, didn't have to work full weeks and were well taken care of when injured on the job? Doesn't quite sound like slavery to me. Obviously those actually designing and overseeing were in better positions, but the people actually building weren't ripped away from their homes and forced to work, by my understanding, but it has been a while since I saw the documentary.

Yeah but maybe the workers used hyperbole and just said they were slaves. Same thing goes on nowadays in workplaces.

I was quite surprised as well. The important evidence that it wasn't used for a tomb isn't what's there, but what isn't. It lacks the necessary writing on the walls that would normally mark a tomb. In fact, it has so little writing on the walls that there's little evidence to suggest what it ended up being used for. Theories range quite a bit, with the popular ones being that it was a tomb that never got used to it actually being a decoy tomb. Another is that it was intended as a practice place, so the rulers of the land could get used to the sarcophagi.
Yes, lack of painting, carving and lots of writing and imagery on the walls would be quite inconsistent with other Egyptian tombs.

I don't know, while on the surface "It was built as a tomb, but just never ended up getting used," makes sense... if you think about it... that's an awful lot of effort to go to in order to build the damn thing, seems like quite a waste not to use it. But who knows.

The head is actually massively undersized for the body, even for a mythical animal. If you ever look up Egyptian depictions of a sphinx, you can note that the head is larger, proportion-wise, than on the Sphinx. The Egyptians were simply too familiar with anatomy to make such a mistake on a structure that size. It would be like us building a replacement for the Statue of Liberty, only making the head massively bigger and then trying to call it to proportion. And they were extremely meticulous and paid a lot of attention to detail in statues. Some of the statues they produced back then rival ones produced today for expert craftsmanship.
Yes, I've seen some of them when they had a traveling exhibit of ancient Egyptian artifacts, mainly from Hatshepsut's reign, at the Palace of the Legion of Honor in San Francisco. The artistry is beautiful, and extremely realistic and lifelike.

For a civilization who produced such amazing sculptural art to screw up the proportions so badly on such a massive work always seemed a bit strange. Then upon further reading I discovered the hypothesis that the Sphinx had been carved much earlier and then later the head had been altered, which makes sense, given that the proportions are so uncharacteristically strange.

Stonehenge does work as a clock today, but it wouldn't have in its original form. And it working as a clock today may just be a result of the fact the Earth's tilt tends to wobble a bit. Quite a few items intended to match up to astrological signs created back then don't match up today, or match up imperfectly, because of that.

But, yeah. The theories are seriously out there about Stone Henge, and the more practical ones often don't make any sense or turn out to have flaws. And the evidence of blood sacrifice certainly provides some evidence that the site definitely wasn't intended as a calendar. Then again, it would be just our luck to discover time travel and then find out it was built as a brothel...
A brothel? Seems a bit open for that. Even as a timepiece, it would have had religious significance. It's clearly monumental architecture and usually back then that meant it was religious. And yes, there's also the evidence of sacrifice. That tends to go with religious buildings/areas. I doubt they hauled those stones that far just to make a kitchen.

The way I understand it, the Egyptians took care of their slaves. Their system of slavery was apparently not as bad as systems that came later. I remember reading about a pharoah attempting to end slavery and nearly having a slave revolt on his hands in response, but I can't find where I read it at. If true, it does suggest some interesting things about their system.



the workers on the pyramid were normally farmers. They would work between the Planting seasons were paid well and treated well. It was sort of like a public works project for farmers who couldn't find employment elsewhere.

Slavery in Egypt and most of the ancient world was pretty mellow compared to chattel slavery of the 18th century. The vast majority of slaves would have turned down freedom and those who wanted freedom were normally making arrangements to buy their freedom and have a secure job. One major exception to this in the west was the Romans. Their slaves were farmers on those roman plots of land. Slowly over time The process morphed into Serfdom as replacing slaves got to expensive.

Yes, lack of painting, carving and lots of writing and imagery on the walls would be quite inconsistent with other Egyptian tombs.

I don't know, while on the surface "It was built as a tomb, but just never ended up getting used," makes sense... if you think about it... that's an awful lot of effort to go to in order to build the damn thing, seems like quite a waste not to use it. But who knows.

There's always the possibility it was never intended to be used as a tomb. For one thing, it did soak up a lot of unemployed people. For another, imagine how much a statement of power simply building the thing must have been. "Hey, we're such a military and economic power that we can waste the treasury and manpower of entire nations to create this" certainly wouldn't have been out of character for them.

Yes, I've seen some of them when they had a traveling exhibit of ancient Egyptian artifacts, mainly from Hatshepsut's reign, at the Palace of the Legion of Honor in San Francisco. The artistry is beautiful, and extremely realistic and lifelike.

For a civilization who produced such amazing sculptural art to screw up the proportions so badly on such a massive work always seemed a bit strange. Then upon further reading I discovered the hypothesis that the Sphinx had been carved much earlier and then later the head had been altered, which makes sense, given that the proportions are so uncharacteristically strange.

There's also suggestions that the Sphinx was at one time subject to a more tropical environment, though that can easily be explained away.

A brothel? Seems a bit open for that. Even as a timepiece, it would have had religious significance. It's clearly monumental architecture and usually back then that meant it was religious. And yes, there's also the evidence of sacrifice. That tends to go with religious buildings/areas. I doubt they hauled those stones that far just to make a kitchen.

The modern version is also unfinished. They never finished the construction of the final expansion for some reason. At least, that's what some of the evidence suggests... And, really, the idea of mixing prostitution with religion wouldn't be anything new for humans.

As for the calendar: They still would have built it on top of a hill. Yet they didn't, and we know the original construction utilized wood instead of stone.

the workers on the pyramid were normally farmers. They would work between the Planting seasons were paid well and treated well. It was sort of like a public works project for farmers who couldn't find employment elsewhere.

Slavery in Egypt and most of the ancient world was pretty mellow compared to chattel slavery of the 18th century. The vast majority of slaves would have turned down freedom and those who wanted freedom were normally making arrangements to buy their freedom and have a secure job. One major exception to this in the west was the Romans. Their slaves were farmers on those roman plots of land. Slowly over time The process morphed into Serfdom as replacing slaves got to expensive.

I know. When designing Forensatha as a NS nation, I actually designed its slavery system to be based on that. The idea being that the nobility would want to prevent revolts, and the best way to do that is to give the people a good enough life that they don't want to.

I know. When designing Forensatha as a NS nation, I actually designed its slavery system to be based on that. The idea being that the nobility would want to prevent revolts, and the best way to do that is to give the people a good enough life that they don't want to.

in most slavery systems regarded as good the slave had the ability to become party of society either by buying freedom (which meant some form of paid lbor is open) or just a normal process all slaves go through.

in most slavery systems regarded as good the slave had the ability to become party of society either by buying freedom (which meant some form of paid lbor is open) or just a normal process all slaves go through.

The Forensathan system includes protections against abuse of slaves, the nobility typically preferring slavery as a source of marriage partners, and the possibility a slave could some day become ruler over the nation. It's not perfect, but meh.

Aliens really did help build the pyramids? The ancient Egyptians were aliens themselves???


You know, if you inscribe a circle in the Cheops pyramid's base, and then divide its circumference by the side of the base, you'll find as a result the value of pi, till the umpteenth decimal. And same goes if you circumscribe the pyramid's base with a circle and then divide its circumference by the base's diagonal! :eek2:

This proves that the pyramids were built by aliens! AIEEEE!!! ZOMG!!!:hail:

Hmm.. Yeah, I bet that's why they got away with going on strike demanding more make-up, because they were nothing but insignificant slaves.You may be confusing 'Engineer' with 'Mason'.

It's okay. You'll learn it eventually.

I didn't say they ran the country. But they weren't slaves, either. Just because a job is "respectable" doesn't mean it's high up on the pecking order. I think factory work is a respectable job, but it's not particularly powerful.Their jobs weren't very respectable, either. They were certainly necessary, and - although the work tended to be forced - it still paid decently enough, particularly by rich egypt's standards. This does not, however, change the general distaste the bureaucracy had for manual labour, nor does it change the habit of force, corporal punishment and such being used to get matters done. There's a reason there's plenty of hieroglyphs depicting the overseer swinging his whip - and he didn't use it to chase the flies away (Well, not majorly).

That this was standard practice for everyone, regardless of whether they were legally slaves, or legally 'Free' as much as you could be without being part of the nobility doesn't equate to modern worker's rights, I'm afraid. If you're incapable of distinguishing the social position of a doctor or an architect running the entire show with that of the average manual labourer moving stones around is, well... Sad, but it doesn't make your dreams of egypt-the-worker's-paradise true.

At best, you may be a tad confused about what 'Slavery' means. If you interpret it as 'Human being owned by another human being, the latter of which having complete rights over the former, up to life and death', then no, they weren't slaves (Come to think of it, I didn't say they were, either... I just find the implication of there being nigh-modern worker's rights present hilarious). But 'Forced labour with little means to negotiate' comes pretty close, me thinks.

snip bunch of arrogant drivel


My goodness. Do you always presume so much and catastrophically fail to read what someone said? Why do you do it? It seems rather pointless and just makes you look stupid. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I thought ancient Egypt was a worker's paradise or any such notion. Nor did I say that their position was high in the social hierarchy. In fact, I said that it wasn't. Apparently you chose to ignore the very sentence you quoted. Why would you do something so stupid?

Learn 2 debate, n00b. Otherwise, GTFO, before you fuck yourself over again.

You know what's fun?
According to some article I've read once upon a time, Polish ID cards must've been dictated by aliens. Proportions of lengths of their sides encode various astronomical informations, like the distance from various planets to Sun.

By the way, IIRC the pyramids, at that time still under construction, saw the first worker's strike ever.

You may be confusing 'Engineer' with 'Mason'.I might also not be.



http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930502&slug=1699001

Zahi Hawass, director-general of the Giza Plateau and Saqqara Archaeological sites, said excavations of 630 tombs at a recently discovered site 5 1/2 miles from downtown Cairo disprove previous contentions that the Great Pyramids were constructed by anything other than native, free-born Egyptians.

"The builders of the Great Pyramids did not come from outer space, as has been said in 200 books," he said. "They were not blacks, and they were not slaves."


http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/eBookDetails.asp?BookID=8278
In this engrossing detective story, Rosalie David uncovers a fascinating picture of Kahun, a pyramid workmens' town excavated in 1887. In David's hands, the Egyptian builders of the pyramids are revealed as simple people, leading ordinary lives while they are engaged in building the great tomb for a Pharaoh. They worry about their families, grumble about the quality of the food, cheat overseers, even plan a strike for better conditions. Gone are the whip-driven slaves of the popular image: in their place are skilled workers knowing the value of their labor.

http://images.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=PR&Date=20080928&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=809280321&Ref=V1&MaxW=570&MaxH=370&title=1&border=0

is it just me or do none of those circles even look like they do anything?
The irony here is that he uses a quote from Einstein to open his paper:
"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler."

What's simple about all those lines and circles?


No doubt Dan Brown will read this story and in a coupla years write a best-selling novel based on it - then deny ever knowing about the original paper.

Actually, as a clock, it fails.

well, it obviously isn't a clock as in a thing you check to see what time or day it is. you can do that with a stick and a wall to measure shadows on. but it does align with specific astronomical things.

If you're going to build a giant timepiece like that, you put it on top of the hill.

not necessarily. if you also want to involve a significant number of people from different egalitarian groups in rituals in and around it, for example, you probably wouldn't want to do that.