NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7639805.stm

With the result that far-right parties made record gains and had their highest ratings since WW2, paving the way for far-right parties establish themselves effectively in the Austrian government for the first time since the demise of the National Socialist (Nazi) Party post-WW2.

the far-right Freedom Party had won 18.01% of the vote and the Alliance for the Future of Austria had 10.98%.

The far-right showing was its strongest since 2000, when the Freedom Party won 28% and gained a place in the coalition government with the conservatives.

That development sparked outrage across Europe and for several months Austria was placed under EU sanctions.

Analysts say the far right could now re-enter government but only after all other options are exhausted.

These include another grand coalition - an option most Austrians oppose - or pacts with the Greens or the two other smaller parties.


What are your opinions on this development? What is worse, the fact that the far-right activist are now at serious chance of gaining a share of goverment control. Or the fact that it was the inclusion of allowing 16/17 year olds to vote that caused the far-right parties to make large gains? Doesn't give one too much hope for the future....

Is there evidence that the two are linked?

Soon the Monarchy will be restored in Austria, then in Hungary, then in Czech and Slovakia, then in Bosnia, then in Slovenia, then western Romania, then in southern Poland.

*Grabs sword and pledges loyalty to the Hapsburgs.*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7639805.stm

With the result that far-right parties made record gains and had their highest ratings since WW2, paving the way for far-right parties establish themselves effectively in the Austrian government for the first time since the demise of the National Socialist (Nazi) Party post-WW2.






What are your opinions on this development? What is worse, the fact that the far-right activist are now at serious chance of gaining a share of goverment control. Or the fact that it was the inclusion of allowing 16/17 year olds to vote that caused the far-right parties to make large gains? Doesn't give one too much hope for the future....

Fascists in Europe again eh? Nice. *sigh*

You wouldn't happen to have polling data on the voters we're talking about, would you?

Time to rebuild Greater Germany. One goddamn country at a time...

Maybe this time they'll let Poles be part of the Herrenvolk; truth be told, I don't want my distant relatives in Eastern Europe to be on their shitlist a second time around and if push comes to shove I figure I could always be head of Reichskommissariat Moskau. I always wanted to go to Russia...

:rolleyes:

I wonder how much the two are linked, if someone does have more info on Austrian culture in the sense of if they prefer to be more independent. The article did make mention of a growing sense of anti-EU feeling in Austria, maybe if the left parties won't so supportive of giving away the independence of Austria then it might be better for them.

Did Austria vote for the new constitution and if so what was the result.

Is the result linked with 16-17 year old vote?

I don't know enough about them to be bothered.

Fascists in Europe again eh? Nice. *sigh*

Fascists hey?

Well perhaps if you want to draw a long bow, but the only "fascist" thing that one of the parties have is Compulsory German lessons for the children of immigrants. Of course they do want a few other fascist things as well, a minimum wage, workers rights, not to mention they want to nationalise agriculture. I think you maybe going over board, but I hardly doubt that Jorg Haider is the next Hitler.

Fascists in Europe again eh? Nice. *sigh*
Hoorah, für den Katerland!

What are your opinions on this development? What is worse, the fact that the far-right activist are now at serious chance of gaining a share of goverment control. Or the fact that it was the inclusion of allowing 16/17 year olds to vote that caused the far-right parties to make large gains? Doesn't give one too much hope for the future....

don't you know 60% of all High school students world wide are Neo fascist. The future is Fascism. Might as well get on the vote before it is too late.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

This is the end result of sixties leftism.

How so?

Austria has always been a little fascist, probably something to do with being the doormat of Europe for so many years.

Eh? I'm sure the generation of 68 had good intentions, and actually when they weren't in power their ideas were a needed counterbalance to much of the groupthink of the previous generation.

But they are far too militant, and won't admit they are wrong about things: the claim is always that more of what didn't work in the first place is the answer to the problem. And their world view is far too Manichean. (There is a deep flaw in modern education, because this sort of thinking prevails everywhere amongst the most educated). They also hold nearly all the power at the moment.

So eventually you get push back. Which is what you are seeing now. Not a big deal though. Well, unless you happen to believe that these things are matters of life and death.

So eventually you get push back. Which is what you are seeing now. Not a big deal though. Well, unless you happen to believe that these things are matters of life and death.

Have you met a hippie who doesn't believe everything they believe is not a matter of life and death?

Have you met a hippie who doesn't believe everything they believe is not a matter of life and death?

Well...

But when I say the generation of 68, I mean more than just woodstock. I'm using it as a placeholder for the shift in societal mores generally that occurred around that time. GWB and the modern evangelist movement are just as much a product of that time as the smelly hippy with his rickshaw contraption in the town of woodstock. (In fact, going to woodstock today is instructive in this respect, because you see what I am talking about).

And for those people, it is a matter of life and death, because it is the beginning of the end of their paradigm being the dominant one. Just like the war generation during the sixties.

But for everyone else. Not so much. Or at least I would avoid thinking that way, because ten years from now you are going to look awfully silly.

Well...

But when I say the generation of 68, I mean more than just woodstock. I'm using it as a placeholder for the shift in societal mores generally that occurred around that time. GWB and the modern evangelist movement are just as much a product of that time as the smelly hippy with his rickshaw contraption in the town of woodstock. (In fact, going to woodstock today is instructive in this respect, because you see what I am talking about).

And for those people, it is a matter of life and death, because it is the beginning of the end of their paradigm being the dominant one. Just like the war generation during the sixties.

But for everyone else. Not so much. Or at least I would avoid thinking that way, because ten years from now you are going to look awfully silly.

I just hate hippies.

With the result that far-right parties made record gains and had their highest ratings since WW2, paving the way for far-right parties establish themselves effectively in the Austrian government for the first time since the demise of the National Socialist (Nazi) Party post-WW2.Except it's been in the government before, in 2000, after essentially identical election results. As, incidentally, the bbc article you apparently didn't bother to read more than the headlines of states quite clearly.

Amusingly enough, what it doesn't state is that the young voters are responsible for this. Rather, it says that frustration with the grand coalition is the cause of the whole thing.

What are your opinions on this development? What is worse, the fact that the far-right activist are now at serious chance of gaining a share of goverment control.As they did before, the result being that the government failed and the right lost most of its votes when the next election came along...? Given how ineffectual the right is when actually in a government, where exactly is the threat? That the established parties get a kick in the groin and actually think a little about what they're doing, rather than just drifting along in a feeling of security, doing little to nothing?

How horrible.

Or the fact that it was the inclusion of allowing 16/17 year olds to vote that caused the far-right parties to make large gains? Doesn't give one too much hope for the future....That thing the article didn't state? Well, it does certainly make me wonder about your reading comprehension...

Oh, that's just what the world needs. A group of 16 year olds who think that their teenage angst really does matter, and having politicians pandering to them to reinforce the idea.

Well, I suppose it's good that more people who are affected by the decisions their governments make can have a bigger say in who gets to make those decisions.

With the result that far-right parties made record gains and had their highest ratings since WW2, paving the way for far-right parties establish themselves effectively in the Austrian government for the first time since the demise of the National Socialist (Nazi) Party post-WW2. Jörg Haider's been part of an Austrian government before, so no, this isn't the first time the far-right will be part of the government in Austria since WW2.

Hoorah, für den Katerland!Ow... =P

With the result that far-right parties made record gains and had their highest ratings since WW2, paving the way for far-right parties establish themselves effectively in the Austrian government for the first time since the demise of the National Socialist (Nazi) Party post-WW2.
Someone hasn't been doing their research (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6rg_Haider#Coalition_government_with_Wolfgang_Sch.C3.BCssel.27s_People.27s_party).

...the fact that it was the inclusion of allowing 16/17 year olds to vote that caused the far-right parties to make large gains?
Cause and correlation, my dear, cause and correlation...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7639805.stm

With the result that far-right parties made record gains and had their highest ratings since WW2, paving the way for far-right parties establish themselves effectively in the Austrian government for the first time since the demise of the National Socialist (Nazi) Party post-WW2.






What are your opinions on this development? What is worse, the fact that the far-right activist are now at serious chance of gaining a share of goverment control. Or the fact that it was the inclusion of allowing 16/17 year olds to vote that caused the far-right parties to make large gains? Doesn't give one too much hope for the future....

Hang on now... if I'm reading this right, the Freedom Party had 28% in 2000, before 16/17 year olds could vote.
Now they've got 18%... and you claim that that drop of 10% is a sign that kids will vote for extreme right parties?
I can't see the connection, sorry.

Ow... =P
Das Katerland would be the Hang-over Country, right? My German is pretty terrible, but I'd feel worse if I couldn't even pun properly.

Das Katerland would be the Hang-over Country, right? My German is pretty terrible, but I feel horrible if I couldn't even pun properly.

Could be. Could also be Tomcat-Country. ;)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7639805.stm

What are your opinions on this development? What is worse, the fact that the far-right activist are now at serious chance of gaining a share of goverment control. Or the fact that it was the inclusion of allowing 16/17 year olds to vote that caused the far-right parties to make large gains? Doesn't give one too much hope for the future....

Glad I don't live in Austria... Neo-Nazis tend not to like me, being of almost pure Jewish decent and all. :p

Glad I don't live in Austria... Neo-Nazis tend not to like me, being of almost pure Jewish decent and all. :p

Yeah and where excatly in thier platform do they show they hate Jews?

Austria has always been a little fascist, probably something to do with being the doormat of Europe for so many years.
Seconded. The Austrians always were the better Nazis.

By the way, probably more or less by accident, the OP's assumption actually seems to have a grain of truth to it.

http://www.sora.at/images/doku/handout.pdf - page 10

Interesting. Maybe one day the US election won't be a two party dictatorship.

Yeah and where excatly in thier platform do they show they hate Jews?

I think the long history of including ex-Nazis says something about their feelings. Also, their current leader's desire to bring back Nazi symbols (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4828326.ece) and their past leader's praise of Nazi policies and people (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/464260.stm).

Oh, that's just what the world needs. A group of 16 year olds who think that their teenage angst really does matter, and having politicians pandering to them to reinforce the idea.

Well, I think that in most respects, that a european nation with a large number of angry teenagers who want to elect a government that will make direct changes to improve their nation, is better than what comes out of non-european nations which have a large number of retarded gangsta wannabes and Emos

- - - - -

At the end of the day, Democracy is all about choice, so let us choose Communism and be done with it
- - - - -

I ****ing want my East Germany back

Seconded. The Austrians always were the better Nazis.

Well, since thats where the fuhrer came from, that extra sense of Patriotism to a leader from their homeland gives even the 'lazy german' austrians that extra something

I think the long history of including ex-Nazis says something about their feelings. Also, their current leader's desire to bring back Nazi symbols (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4828326.ece) and their past leader's praise of Nazi policies and people (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/464260.stm).

The first link you gave actually just says he wants to over turn the ban on these symbols, nothing wrong with allowing people free speech. The second yeah he has said a few things that has been supportive of some of their polices but I would like to see where in their platform they want to eradicate the Jews in Austria.

Seconded. The Austrians always were the better Nazis.

By the way, probably more or less by accident, the OP's assumption actually seems to have a grain of truth to it.

http://www.sora.at/images/doku/handout.pdf - page 10

Thanks a lot Leon, make me pull out my English-German Dictionary :p

The first link you gave actually just says he wants to over turn the ban on these symbols, nothing wrong with allowing people free speech. The second yeah he has said a few things that has been supportive of some of their polices but I would like to see where in their platform they want to eradicate the Jews in Austria.

I am not suggesting that there is anything wrong with free speech. The reason that I suggested that Strache has demosntrated a likelihood that Jews are not one of his favourite groups of people is that Strache himself has used the Nazi salute, and has been involved in Neo-Nazi activities in the past (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/farrights-strache-claims-austria-victory-945990.html). Were this history of ties with Neo-Nazi groups, I would not make the link between the two.

Being that it would be illegal to advocate something like that in Austria, I doubt that they are going to list that in their platform. But you can't seriously suggest that this is not something that they lean towards, given their history?

I am not suggesting that there is anything wrong with free speech. The reason that I suggested that Strache has demosntrated a likelihood that Jews are not one of his favourite groups of people is that Strache himself has used the Nazi salute, and has been involved in Neo-Nazi activities in the past (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/farrights-strache-claims-austria-victory-945990.html). Were this history of ties with Neo-Nazi groups, I would not make the link between the two.

Being that it would be illegal to advocate something like that in Austria, I doubt that they are going to list that in their platform. But you can't seriously suggest that this is not something that they lean towards, given their history?

Well, he may have some feelings against them, but I dislike associating people with other people they know it is a fallacy after all. I am not seriously suggesting that they may lean towards it what I am suggesting is that to say that this win means that fascism and Nazism is going to rise up again in Austria is merely hyperbole.

Well, he may have some feelings against them, but I dislike associating people with other people they know it is a fallacy after all. I am not seriously suggesting that they may lean towards it what I am suggesting is that to say that this win means that fascism and Nazism is going to rise up again in Austria is merely hyperbole.

Let me be clear, I am not suggesting that Strache is a Nazi because he associates with Neo-Nazis, I am suggesting that he may harbour Nazi sympathies because he associates with Neo-Nazis and has openly used the Nazi salute and wants to overturn laws forbidding the use of Nazi symbols and is a member of a party whose founder praised Nazi policies and prominent Nazis.

And I am not saying that this will necessarily lead to a rise in fascism and Nazism in Europe, merely that it is a cause for concern for the groups that this political group targets and something that needs to be monitored.

Let me be clear, I am not suggesting that Strache is a Nazi because he associates with Neo-Nazis, I am suggesting that he may harbour Nazi sympathies because he associates with Neo-Nazis and has openly used the Nazi salute and wants to overturn laws forbidding the use of Nazi symbols and is a member of a party whose founder praised Nazi policies and prominent Nazis.

And I am not saying that this will necessarily lead to a rise in fascism and Nazism in Europe, merely that it is a cause for concern for the groups that this political group targets and something that needs to be monitored.

Well I was actually referring to the overall theme of the thread. But I do not think it is a cause for concern that some people on here has made it out to be, like all governments you might moniter them but hardly something to start worrying over.

Well I was actually referring to the overall theme of the thread. But I do not think it is a cause for concern that some people on here has made it out to be, like all governments you might moniter them but hardly something to start worrying over.

Unless you are a Muslim or a Jew or an immigrant in Austria. Then I would be worried.

Unless you are a Muslim or a Jew or an immigrant in Austria. Then I would be worried.

Look at the platform, the only thing you need to be worried about being an immigrant is that they are going to make your children learn German. Oh and people will have more freedom, when laws start being passed that Jews have to wear yellow stars and Muslims have to wear green crescents then alarm bells should be ringing but until that time they people shouldn't be getting their panties in a twist.

Every country in Europe is having a backlash against immigration. The early 21st century is seeing migration on a vast scale - including illegal immigration. Did you know that sinnce the first Live-Aid concert for Ethiopia in the 80s, the Ethiopian population has doubled.
Unless we cut our world population down by improving the living standards of the third world, promoting birth control etc, there will be many more immigrants battering at the doors of developed countries.
The British are very keen to whinge about how many immigrants they have. Many of them grudgingly admit that the Poles work hard - but don't get the Brits started on Romanians! (It used to be just the West Indians and the Pakistanis that the British whinged about.
In the US, both McCain and Obama support "The Fence" to keep out the Latinos.
So immigration becomes an obsession during times of economic crisis in particular - and politicians that don't recognise the power of it as an issue are doomed.
Austria had it's own peculiararities such as a dysfunctional coalition of Christian Democrats and Social Democrats. Those guys should have pulled their heads from their arses to see what was going on.
So the Right improved their vote. Maybe that will scare Tweedledum and Tweedledumbkopf into more co-operation next time.

I liked your research Neu L. Damn! I wish I could read German!