NationStates Jolt Archive

Recent events got me looking into the great depression, it also made me wonder how much to blame was herbert hoover for it? Can he really be blamed for something that happened that fast, isn't it possible it wasn't his fault and the great depression was destined no matter who won?

The great depression was going to happen no matter what. However, I won't go into a threadjack on who made it a GREAT depression instead of just a normal, smaller depression. *zips mouth closed*

As CM coyly alludes to, one of the current grand projects of right-wing idea factories has been to rehabilitate the image and record of Hoover and to place the blame for the depths of the Depression squarely on FDR's shoulders.

This is somewhat beside the point of your question -- most standard textbook histories don't blame Hoover for causing the Depression, as the causes (no matter what theory of economics you subscribe to) are generally thought to have roots in the 19-teens and the 1920s, before Hoover got into power. What Hoover does get blamed for in the history books is for an ineffective initial response.

Like the wise man sez: Experience is not what happens to you, it's what you do with what happens to you.

Its difficult to say. I normally quantify guilt with a flowchart, not a percentage.

Its difficult to say. I normally quantify guilt with a flowchart, not a percentage.



Didn't know how else to state, maybe it's the heat talking. Not a big deal, ignore the poll.

Didn't know how else to state, maybe it's the heat talking. Not a big deal, ignore the poll.

That was a joke, son, a joke. :p

Hoover was just someone who got elected at the wrong time. The Great Depression was caused by the stock market crash. What made it so bad was that banks invested heavily in the stock market. Once the stock market went bad, people lost their savings. Hoover did try to fix it, but he had no idea how bad it was going to get.

Mm, well, my Blameulator attributes 45.7895% of the responsibility to Hoover, but it has a well documented liberal bias. I'd say the real number is somewhere below 30% and above 20%, and divisible by 7.

I don't know if he can be blamed for it, but he did sign the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act.

I can't opine until Factcheck.org gives me the answer. :eek:

I'm not an early twentieth century historian, and certainly not an economic historian, but I'd say a significant portion of the fault is with the structure of the Stock Market at the time. It was, for the most part, unregulated. There was a considerable amount of margin trading, selling short and insider trading during the boom time of the Twenties, a lot of paper fortunes were made. In addition, the stock traders of America were happily ignoring the economic conditions in Europe following WWI (which were exacerbated by the punitive reparations stipulated in the Treaty of Versailles and by the Revolution in Russia). Since one can't escape the fact that world economies are inter-related, it was inevitable that the American market would crash. If there had been intelligent regulation on Wall Street, a more intelligent treatment of Germany following WWI and a better understanding of what was going on in Russia at the time, economic problems in America might not have been avoided, but certainly would not have been as bad. Blaming the policies of one President is naive. Hoover's response was uninformed, half-assed and ineffective, but he certainly didn't cause it. FDR's response was effective, but it was politically controversial - a lot of people - my father-in-law included, considered it little more than communism. In any case, no one individual, no one action, no one element was to blame, it took a combination of factors to get us into the Great Depression and a combination of factors to get us out.

It took a combination of factors to get us into today's mess, it will take a combination of factors to get us out and, in the meantime, a lot of people are going to get hurt.

...isn't it possible it wasn't his fault and the great depression was destined no matter who won?

I'm sorry... what???

There were winners and losers in the Great Depression?

I'm sorry... what???

There were winners and losers in the Great Depression?




:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


The election. Jeez.

hoover is 100% responsible for most bad things in history. fucker caused the great chicago fire, the massacre at wounded knee, the bush presidency...

I think that it is very telling that the people who lived in the depression tent-cities, shanty towns and slums called them "Hooverville".

Maybe Bush's urgent need to pour taxpayer $$$$$ into the stock market was motivated by his desire not to be Herbert Hoover (who, to give him his due, did not start two land wars in Asia that just keep going on and on and .....)
The point is that it was FDR who pulled America and the rest of the world out of the Great Depression by using that miracle ingredient: Kensian Economics!!! Eat my shorts Milton Freidman!

I think that it is very telling that the people who lived in the depression tent-cities, shanty towns and slums called them "Hooverville".

Maybe Bush's urgent need to pour taxpayer $$$$$ into the stock market was motivated by his desire not to be Herbert Hoover (who, to give him his due, did not start two land wars in Asia that just keep going on and on and .....)
The point is that it was FDR who pulled America and the rest of the world out of the Great Depression by using that miracle ingredient: Kensian Economics!!! Eat my shorts Milton Freidman!



I believe World War 2 helped.

I think that it is very telling that the people who lived in the depression tent-cities, shanty towns and slums called them "Hooverville".

Maybe Bush's urgent need to pour taxpayer $$$$$ into the stock market was motivated by his desire not to be Herbert Hoover (who, to give him his due, did not start two land wars in Asia that just keep going on and on and .....)
The point is that it was FDR who pulled America and the rest of the world out of the Great Depression by using that miracle ingredient: Kensian Economics!!! Eat my shorts Milton Freidman!

Must...Resist....Urge...To...Threadjack....

Must...Resist....Urge...To...Threadjack....

If you do, I will fight you to the ends of the Earth!

If you do, I will fight you to the ends of the Earth!

Curses... Foiled again...

Curses... Foiled again...

Stand down Conservative Morality Boy! You cannot hope to face the power of Anarchist Person!

*cue superhero theme*

I believe World War 2 helped.

...because modern wars are massively (if unintentionally) Keynesian.

The seeds of the depression were laid well before Hoover came into office. There was virtually nothing he could have done to have forstalled it, but he could certainly have taken steps to moderate its effects, in the United States, at least.

Stand down Conservative Morality Boy! You cannot hope to face the power of Anarchist Person!

*cue superhero theme*
*runs away because of awesome theme*

The seeds of the depression were laid well before Hoover came into office. There was virtually nothing he could have done to have forstalled it, but he could certainly have taken steps to moderate its effects, in the United States, at least.
To be fair, doing so probably would have made him less popular than he was in his pre-crash days.

Nah, WWI and the aftermath caused it. Hoover was an innocent bystander. He didn't help though, with all his stimulus packages and trying to support sick banks though.

...because modern wars are massively (if unintentionally) Keynesian.

Actually, I think the inflationary aspect of bombing the shit out of stuff more than outweighs the fiscal stimulus side.

We should remember that in the near future.

The Great Depression was caused by economic policies and practices that really got going under Harding and Coolidge.

Hoover's crime was in not doing enough to solve the crisis.

He didn't cause it, and he didn't exactly fiddle while Rome burned either, he DID however not move boldly enough to help stop the downward spiral. At the very end of his presidency, he started to understand that self help and volunteering was not going to stop this, but by then... too little, too late.

He didn't cause it, and he didn't exactly fiddle while Rome burned either, he DID however not move boldly enough to help stop the downward spiral. At the very end of his presidency, he started to understand that self help and volunteering was not going to stop this, but by then... too little, too late.

Well, you know, his party's ideology was completely not the right one for addressing that sort of problem. At the time, as is often the case today, the prevailing view in the Republican party was that one was not supposed to interfere with the economy at all. Hoover was crippled by the fact that his party's ideology was useless to meet the challenge of the great depression.

And when the country is in crisis and you're the leader, the worst thing you can do, for morale, is nothing. Hoover made a few cautious attempts, but was largely seen as kinda sitting on his hands and going "don't worry guys, it'll fix itself."

FDR, on the other hand, was always trying to do something about the problem. A lot of what he tried didn't work, but what was important to national morale was that he was at least doing something.

Be fair to Hoover, he proposed and passed a huge stimulus act in late 1929, established the FHLB, accelerated federal building projects (hoover damn), the RFC &c. A lot of this was folded into the new deal.

There was quite a bit more than just volunteerism.

Of course, he also signed Smoot Hawley into law, and refused to let the banks fail.

The real problem is that he just didn't get it. No-one else did either, which is why people got into the mess in the first place. It's not a sin. Ben Bernanke doesn't understand the great depression either, and he made a career out of being an expert on it.

Also, Hoover was a progressive liberal. That existed in the Republican party back then.

Hoover didnt cause it, but his idiotic "hands off" approach allowed it to worsen.

Hoover also did want to do more than he actually did. His was a time period of relatively weak presidencies (a backlash against the Wilson "betrayal"), and Congress blocked several measures that could have helped a lot.

Did Hoover cause the depression? Nah. Does he deserve all the blame? Probably not.

My grandfather once said it was Hoovers lack of leadership which made things worst. People needed comfort as things were getting bad and he failed. When FDR talked; you felt things would get better.

Sound familiar?

"The fundamental business of the country, that is, the production and distribution of commodities, is on a very sound and prosperous basis."

Herbert Hoover, News Conference Statement, on Friday, Oct. 25, 1929, the day after Black Thursday started the Wall Street crash.

"Nah, WWI and the aftermath caused it. Hoover was an innocent bystander. He didn't help though, with all his stimulus packages and trying to support sick banks though"

Lacadaemon is saying an important truth. Helping out private banks that are haemorraging cash is no solution. Nationalising the banks and helping out the jobless by guaranteeing them work would stop the panic.
I don't thinlk that bush gets that truth either.

Its difficult to say. I normally quantify guilt with a flowchart, not a percentage.

A tontine of blame as it were...