NationStates Jolt Archive

A good question from round 567,978,675,568,846 of Star Wars vs Star Trek...

Why is it always this question, and never any question of (say) Star Wars vs Warhammer 40K, or the Dominion vs the Daleks, or something more original?

So boys and girls, what SF universes do you want to see square off ASIDE FROM SW OR ST?

Warhammer vs the Time Lords?
Starship Troopers vs Alien?
Forever War vs Predator?
Babylon 5 vs Flash Gordon?

Just remember, NO Star Trek or Star Wars

Master of Orion vs. whatever you suggest?

Star Control vs. whatever you suggest?

And the final challenge:

Stanislaw Lem's universes (one at a time) against any others.

if it is not star wars Vs star trek no one cares

I reckon the 40K universe could match up against most SF universes.

Though it's be interesting to see what folks though of a match-up that's not necessarily between two warlike universes. How would, for example, Ursula le Guin's Hainish Cycle universe fair?

EDIT: Saying that, Muad'Dib would clean up.

Halo's UNSC VS.(new) BSG's Colonials

I reckon the 40K universe could match up against most SF universes.

Though it's be interesting to see what folks though of a match-up that's not necessarily between two warlike universes. How would, for example, Ursula le Guin's Hainish Cycle universe fair?


How about Revelation Space universe Vs. that what you said?

Halo's Covenatn AND UNSC Vs. all Mass Effact's races.

Culture vs Whatever you suggest

Starship Troopers vs. Alien: This depends on which ST and Alien we're referring to. Do you mean the film or the book? Apart from the completely different themses and tones, military technology of the Federation was drastically shifted during the conversion to a movie. With regard to Alien, do you mean the human civilization of the Alien universe, or the aliens themselves?

I'd like to see:

Heinlein's Starship Troopers vs Halderman's Forever War
Heinlein's Starship Troopers vs HALO
Space: Above and Beyond's marines vs Aliens marines
And simply for the pure fun of diametric opposition, Ian Bank's "Culture" vs GDW's Space: 1889 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space:_1889)

Honor Harrington universe vs. whoever. :p

Starship Troopers vs. Alien: This depends on which ST and Alien we're referring to. Do you mean the film or the book?

Take either one for both... (although the book and film versions of Alien actually resemble esch other, unlike Heinlein's version of ST vs the Dutch brat's version...)

With regard to Alien, do you mean the human civilization of the Alien universe, or the aliens themselves?

Again, either one...

And that brings us to a silly one:

Heinlein's MI vs Verhoeven's MI... I hope we can all agree that hardcore powered armor wearing, nuke weilding, proper tactics using forces can top half assed armor wearing, rifle weilding, moronic tactics using forces...

I fully expect that, while technologically on par, the USCM from Aliens would kick Verhoeven's MI seventy ways to Sunday.

The Alien would eat Verhoeven's MI for lunch and have the navy for dessert.

A prepared USCM unit would take down the Alien no prob.

And Heinlein's MI would finish off both the USCM and the Alien before breakfast.

Dune v. Transformers.

40K vs. Halo. 40K wins because Earth in the Halo series' strategy consists of "Wait for master chief to save us"

Starship troopers Vs. Star Control Starship Troopers win, because Star Control has no idea of how to fight on a planet. I'm serious. They physically can't.

Starship troopers Vs. 40K. Starship Troopers, because there's only so much a Dreadnought can do against a bunch of guys with jetpacks in their boots and tactical nukes.

Star Control vs. 40K. 40K, for reasons stated before.

40K vs. 40K. Chuck Norris wins. Period.

Starship troopers Vs. 40K, Star Control, and Aliens ALL AT ONCE! Starship Troopers. They jump over the Space marines and Imperial guard, nuke them, flame the aliens, use a few HE missiles on the survivors, and mock Captain Zelnick as he sends down a lander with nothing more than a stun laser. :D

Dune Vs. Starship Troopers. Starship Troopers. There's only so much Giant Worms and lightning fast martial arts can do.

Culture vs Whatever you suggest

Culture vs Laumer's Bolo might make a decent match up.

Nyarlathotep and Co. vs. Everyone else

The moties vs the octospiders.
Both foundations (Asimov) vs the Pak.

Firefly versus Babylon V

Starship troopers Vs. Star Control Starship Troopers win, because Star Control has no idea of how to fight on a planet. I'm serious. They physically can't.
But they can place Dreadnoughts in orbit around a planet and destroy either the entire surface or the strategic locations.
Also, a single landing shuttle with just 14 guys can stun out the entire wildlife on a planet.

Also, impenetrable shields FTW.

But they can place Dreadnoughts in orbit around a planet and destroy either the entire surface or the strategic locations.
Also, a single landing shuttle with just 14 guys can stun out the entire wildlife on a planet.

Also, impenetrable shields FTW.

So they can stop anyone from coming in or out of a planet, but can they crack it open?

I think not. And didn't you see the Chmmr? And the end of the game?

So they can stop anyone from coming in or out of a planet, but can they crack it open? I think not.
Ur-Quan did it to Earth in the prehistory. So sure, why not.
Everyone in Star Control is just more about the go than the show, unlike in [unmentionables]. Thus, they don't need to blow planets apart spectacularly, they just burn out the surface when they feel like it.

Remember how quickly the Kohr-Ah wipe out the galaxy if you are too slow.


And didn't you see the Chmmr? And the end of the game?
Yeah, but it's CHMMR, not just blood and flesh mortals. And they've been building up on that for decades. And required the energy of a whole artificial sun to do it.

Ur-Quan did it to Earth in the prehistory. So sure, why not.
Everyone in Star Control is just more about the go than the show, unlike in [unmentionables]. Thus, they don't need to blow planets apart spectacularly, they just burn out the surface when they feel like it.

They did? If you're talking about SC3, I don't regard that as cannon.

Yeah, but it's CHMMR, not just blood and flesh mortals. And they've been building up on that for decades. And required the energy of a whole artificial sun to do it.
Point? What about the end of the game? When they destroy the shield over the Earth? And besides, you think a Nova bomb couldn't get past that little shield?

A special for Vault 10:

Whadda ya day - Morrow Project vs Gamma World vs Metamorphisis Alpha

Priscilla queen of the desert vs The devil from southpark... :p

or a lil more seriously ... The shadows (babylon 5) vs the cylons

Necrons vs any other equvialent psycho-robots.

Space Sharks vs. Air Piranhas.

Matrix Vs. Terminator!

Matrix Vs. Terminator!

Isn't terminator a prequel to the matrix ;) ?

Isn't terminator a prequel to the matrix ;) ?

Well I'd like to see the Machines from the Matrix universe fight the Terminators.

Priscilla queen of the desert vs The devil from southpark... :p

:::smack's quim upside da head wit SF:::

or a lil more seriously ... The shadows (babylon 5) vs the cylons

Much better match up

Matrix Vs. Terminator!

Sweet! Wicked cross stream Willy. That's what we want! :D

Ender Wiggin kills them all. Then cries about it. *nod*

They did? If you're talking about SC3, I don't regard that as cannon.
Star Control II. Talk to the Commander Hayes, and ask him about the history. On some of the questions, he describes how the Ur-Quan ordered everyone to leave historic cities, and then eliminated them. That included destroying some areas deep under Antarctica.

And as for cracking open the entire planet, the Deep Child.


Point? What about the end of the game? When they destroy the shield over the Earth?
Again CHMMR with unlimited resources - and in time - not immediately, only after the ending.

And besides, you think a Nova bomb couldn't get past that little shield?
THAT one, which was used by Shofixti to blow up their entire star, probably could. (maybe not, shields can have something fundamental to them). But nothing of more practical... producibility. They're a few Precursor artifacts, not a mass-produced weapon.

The cheating unmentionables could maybe make their way through, but Starship Troopers is much more grounded, and their technology isn't near that level as to affect the permanent planetary shields.

Buck Rodgers vs Flash Gordon
Gor vs Spelljammer

A special for Vault 10:

Whadda ya day - Morrow Project vs Gamma World vs Metamorphisis Alpha

err.... umm...

can I join in on that rumble? :tongue:


my suggestions....

hmmm....

1) Transformers vs Terminators vs Bolos.
2) Chitor vs Aliens vs Starship troopers (any version)
3) Aliens vs Predator in the Flux and Anchor setting
4) Iron man vs Knight Sabers
5) Planet of the Apes vs Megazone 23

The moties vs the octospiders.
Both foundations (Asimov) vs the Pak.

Just one Pak? Do we get to choose which one?

Or do you mean 'pure' Pak?

If it's just one Pak, and we get to choose which Pak, Foundations MIGHT have a chance. Maybe.

Ender Wiggin kills them all. Then cries about it. *nod*Ender Wiggin vs. Shinji Ikari - the bigger emofag wins.

Ender Wiggin vs. Shinji Ikari - the bigger emofag wins.
Ender was only an emofag in Ender's Game, when he was like 6 or 7.

Plus, I've been occasionally using the nickname "Ender" after reading it, seeing as it sounds almost the same but way cooler, and, seeing as I'm close to zero even as it is, the name Ender is seriously cool.

Thus, he wins.

Capt Justy Ueki Tylor and the Soyokaze vs the Star Wars Empire or any of the Star Trek governments. :p

The Event Horizon vs. the Firefly crew.

The Event Horizon vs. the Firefly crew.

I'll give it to the Horizon.

Scenario
the Crew of the Serentiy discovers a drifting relic. they board her to salvage anything valuable and wind up it's victims.

Mal, Zoe, Inara, Jayne, Kaylee, Dr tam and River (Wash would be dead)

Mal, Kaylee, Jayne and River would board the ship. they would find bodies (of the earlier salvage crew) and Dr Tam would go on board.

Zoe, as pilot would probably stay on board the flirefly.

Since Kaylee would be going over the engines, we can say she would be the first victim of the black hole drive.

as a Psychic Sensitive, River would be first possessed by the evil entity of the Event Horizon and she would, like the previous possessed. disable the Firefly and perhaps even destroy her. at least Zoe would be killed since River is a 'valued member of the crew' and could get near enough to Zoe to kill her.

due to her now enhanced fighting techniques, it would be easy for River to remove Inara from the scene. An animated Kaylee would remove the Doc. By this time, Mal and Jayne would realize somethings up but because they would be distracted by Zoe's death and being trapped on the Event Horizon it would be too late to save Inara and Dr Tam. thus they would figure their only hope would be to plot the Event Horizon into the nearest Black Hole and hope it's crushed forever. Becaue the Event Horizon's bridge was seperated long ago, the only other place to plot the course would be in the engine room.

however, on the way, River will encounter Jayne and the two will duke it out... leaving Mal to plot the course, but he'll be haunted by visions of both Zoe (his last subordinate who just died under his 'command') and Inara (unrequited love) that plotting the course would take time. in the end, he enounters a bloody River and in the last fight, he'll throw both himself and River into the engine's main core. sealing the ship in it's one way journey to destruction.


ok.... that came out pretty good...

I'll give it to the Horizon.

Scenario
the Crew of the Serentiy discovers a drifting relic. they board her to salvage anything valuable and wind up it's victims.

Mal, Zoe, Inara, Jayne, Kaylee, Dr tam and River (Wash would be dead)


Oh. :(

That's a shame... you got this far and then just started typing 'la la la' and covering my ears.

itdidnthappenitdidnthappenitdidnthappen

Oh. :(

That's a shame... you got this far and then just started typing 'la la la' and covering my ears.

itdidnthappenitdidnthappenitdidnthappen

sorry, I was positing it being after both movies. (Serentiy and Event Horizon)

we could set it before both movies... would that be better?

A good question from round 567,978,675,568,846 of Star Wars vs Star Trek...



So boys and girls, what SF universes do you want to see square off ASIDE FROM SW OR ST?

Warhammer vs the Time Lords?
Starship Troopers vs Alien?
Forever War vs Predator?
Babylon 5 vs Flash Gordon?

Just remember, NO Star Trek or Star Wars

How about Stephen Baxter's Xeelee versus the Firstborn?

sorry, I was positing it being after both movies. (Serentiy and Event Horizon)

we could set it before both movies... would that be better?

I don't know... if they're all going to end up dead anyway... :(

:)

I don't know... if they're all going to end up dead anyway... :(

:)

... yeah, there has to be survivors...

REWRITE!!!!

hmmm... say... they manage to eject in one of Event Horizon's escape pods and manage to make their way back to a drifting Serenity...


Mal and Inara survive and have "survivor's sex" at the end?

or would a scene with Jayne and Mal be better? :D

... yeah, there has to be survivors...

REWRITE!!!!

hmmm... say... they manage to eject in one of Event Horizon's escape pods and manage to make their way back to a drifting Serenity...


Mal and Inara survive and have "survivor's sex" at the end?

or would a scene with Jayne and Mal be better? :D

If you're going to have survivor sex, it pretty much has to be Kaylee and Simon, with River being kinda creepy and watching from the ceiling... doesn't it?

If you're going to have survivor sex, it pretty much has to be Kaylee and Simon, with River being kinda creepy and watching from the ceiling... doesn't it?

ohh... the 'Shock' ending... I like it... :tongue:

ohh... the 'Shock' ending... I like it... :tongue:

No one could predict it. Amirite?

:D

I was kind of thinking this is set before the whole bounty hunter thing, and River manages to trick the wicked EH that she's Serenity...

Creepy how similar Reavers are to whomever succumbs to the Event Horizon's hell dimension, though.

SG1 team (O'Neill, Carter, Daniel, and Teal'c) vs Atlantis team (Shepherd, Ronin, Teyla, and McKay).

Direct matchups would be:

O'Neill vs Shepherd (sarcasm and wise cracks, anyone?)
Teal'c vs Ronin (we've seen this, and so far it's been a draw)
Carter vs McKay (probably the most interesting matchup)
Daniel vs Teyla (probably the least balanced fight of the group)

In the end, everyone cancels each other out, with the exception of Daniel vs Teyla. Teyla would kick his ass (but feel bad about it after).

SG1 team (O'Neill, Carter, Daniel, and Teal'c) vs Atlantis team (Shepherd, Ronin, Teyla, and McKay).

Direct matchups would be:

O'Neill vs Shepherd (sarcasm and wise cracks, anyone?)
Teal'c vs Ronin (we've seen this, and so far it's been a draw)
Carter vs McKay (probably the most interesting matchup)
Daniel vs Teyla (probably the least balanced fight of the group)

In the end, everyone cancels each other out, with the exception of Daniel vs Teyla. Teyla would kick his ass (but feel bad about it after).

This seems like a fair match-up.

Either team would get their ass kicked by Twiki, but they might be at about each other's level...

SG1 team (O'Neill, Carter, Daniel, and Teal'c) vs Atlantis team (Shepherd, Ronin, Teyla, and McKay).

Direct matchups would be:

O'Neill vs Shepherd (sarcasm and wise cracks, anyone?)
Teal'c vs Ronin (we've seen this, and so far it's been a draw)
Carter vs McKay (probably the most interesting matchup)
Daniel vs Teyla (probably the least balanced fight of the group)

In the end, everyone cancels each other out, with the exception of Daniel vs Teyla. Teyla would kick his ass (but feel bad about it after).

I, for one, try very hard to pretend SG-Atlantis doesn't exist.

I'd like to see a match up of Robert Reed's Sister Alice with John C. Wright's The Golden Age. I'm not sure who's more driven to achieving greatness: Alice or Phaethon? It'd be a fun match-up.

I'd like to see:

Heinlein's Starship Troopers vs Halderman's Forever War
Good call. However, I believe ST would win simply because of their numbers and the way that their soldiers are cannon fodder to a certain extent. FW's soldiers are so elite, yet regular guys albeit super-smart. However, they won't have a chance to outsmart a horde of gun-toting "citizens"...
Starship troopers Vs. 40K. Starship Troopers, because there's only so much a Dreadnought can do against a bunch of guys with jetpacks in their boots and tactical nukes.
You seem to forget about the Space Marines. They laugh at your nuke and counter with an exterminatus.
They also have jumppacks. And they can best 100 normal men in combat.

They'd so rip your Starship Troopers apart. And that's only the good guys. Once you start meddling with Chaos and Demons, a demon has your nuke for breakfast.
Well I'd like to see the Machines from the Matrix universe fight the Terminators.
Good call! However, the way the Matrix is set up as a world-dominating machine-species, it'd be kinda hard for the Terminators to get a foothold. Unless, of course, you give'em a T-X who'd simply turn over the machines with a touch of her finger...
Ender Wiggin kills them all. Then cries about it. *nod*
He would, wouldn't he?
itdidnthappenitdidnthappenitdidnthappen
It sure didn't! (Lalalalala...)

Ender Wiggin kills them all. Then cries about it. *nod*

Until Bean shows up again. Of course, by then Ender could use his talking trees against him, and really, who can stand up to talking trees?

Dr. Who Kills them all before they even exist.

Dune v. Transformers.

Lol awesome.

Do we include Unicron on the Transformers side?

The Event Horizon vs. the Firefly crew.

Interesting Scenario. Of course, to incorporate the Firefly universe into this sort of thing, it has to be. Technologically the Firefly universe isn't all that advanced, and the Alliance's territory is small relative to some of the vast interstellar empires and organizations seen in other Sci-Fi universes.

No Alice v. Phaethon? Really?

How about The Stars my Destination and Tides of Light? Anyone?


How about Sun of Suns v Souls in the Great Machine?
Donnerjack v Lady of Mazes?
Dead Empire's Fall v Children of the Mind?
Automated Alice v Spaceland?

Any takers? Anybody?

This seems like a fair match-up.

Either team would get their ass kicked by Twiki, but they might be at about each other's level...

I REALLY hope you're not referring to THIS Twiki: http://www.edsfamily.com/ed/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/twiki2.jpg

I really doubt he'd stand a chance against either team.

Carter vs McKay (probably the most interesting matchup)...In the end, everyone cancels each other out, with the exception of Daniel vs Teyla

You're joking, right?

McKay can't stop screaming and babbling incoherently; when he tried to shoot a Wraith in The Siege (Part II) he accidentally ejected the clip from his 9 mm. How do you do that? Seriously, is that even frikkin possible? To actually make your gun fall apart takes a particular brand of martial incompotence.

Carter has the advanced combat training given to Air Force personnel, years of front-line combat experience, and something my kind call "chutzpah." In fact, in the first episode that focused on her she personally whipped Shang Tsung. Shang Tsung! Her first episode, too! Later you see her breaking out of Goa'uld jail cells, singlehandedly staving off Jaffa assaults, and managing to avoid a panic attack every other episode.

I like McKay, I do, but Sam would simply tear him apart.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and let's not forget that that, where Sam has singlehandedly saved Earth (And, by extension, the Milky Way galaxy as a whole) on numerous occasions, McKay blew up a stellar system and has more than once cost the lives of fellow Atlantis inhabitants through his mistakes. Like I said, I like McKay, but he pales in comparison (Plus, and let's not pretend we're not all thinking it, she's just plain easier on the eyes).

I like McKay, I do, but Sam would simply tear him apart.

This is true. But McKay is the more intelligent of the two, even if he is a putz.

I'd like to see
Heinleins Starship Troopers vs Hollywoods Starship Troopers.

I expect Heinlein-ites to wipe the floor with the Hollywooders arses.

This is true. But McKay is the more intelligent of the two, even if he is a putz.

Oy, seriously? Even he admitted that Sam is smarter (Grace Under Pressure; after grudgingly accepting that they're probably "a tie," he himself stated that that she was actually wiser), and Carter has been proven correct in every situation where they have disagreed.

In case you didn't notice, I'm a wee bit of a Carter fan-boy.

You're joking, right?

McKay can't stop screaming and babbling incoherently; when he tried to shoot a Wraith in The Siege (Part II) he accidentally ejected the clip from his 9 mm. How do you do that? Seriously, is that even frikkin possible? To actually make your gun fall apart takes a particular brand of martial incompotence.

Carter has the advanced combat training given to Air Force personnel, years of front-line combat experience, and something my kind call "chutzpah." In fact, in the first episode that focused on her she personally whipped Shang Tsung. Shang Tsung! Her first episode, too! Later you see her breaking out of Goa'uld jail cells, singlehandedly staving off Jaffa assaults, and managing to avoid a panic attack every other episode.

I like McKay, I do, but Sam would simply tear him apart.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and let's not forget that that, where Sam has singlehandedly saved Earth (And, by extension, the Milky Way galaxy as a whole) on numerous occasions, McKay blew up a stellar system and has more than once cost the lives of fellow Atlantis inhabitants through his mistakes. Like I said, I like McKay, but he pales in comparison (Plus, and let's not pretend we're not all thinking it, she's just plain easier on the eyes).

I wasn't thinking of a matchup based on battle (both Carter and McKay are best thinking up solutions to complex, life threatening problems). Their scientific backgrounds match up well. Yes, McKay blew up a system due to his ego (thinking he could control that reactor), but he's come up with some brilliant solutions to almost guaranteed fatal predicaments. Where has he killed anyone from his mistakes (none come to mind).

I do agree that Carter is a better looker, though (in fact, there's no comparison).

How many different Directors takes are there of the same SF universe that are so different as to be almost different universes?

is there the possibility of a Spielburg universe vs same universe by someone else?

Warning: Atlantis spoilers to follow!

An Atlantis scientist died in the first malfuction within Trinity (Prior to where Rodney blew up the star system); the pilot of McKay's jumper died in Grace Under Pressure after McKay repaired it and certified it as "fit to fly," only to have it crash in the ocean; and Peter Grodin died in The Siege (Part I) after McKay's repairs to the Ancient weapons satellite had unintentioned side effects that made it impossible to retrieve Peter before the arrival of the Wraith.

In fact, last night he blew up Atlantis's Stargate when he activated Janus's device without fully understanding the consequences, and though the episode ended on a cliffhanger, it might very well have killed Radek (I don't say John, because we know they're not killing the star, but they've never had a problem with killing the pH.D we've grown to love after many years).

As Elizabeth Weir stated, there are times when he needs to be protected from himself, and he can not always judge the true effects of his actions. He's never pointed a gun at somebody and pulled the trigger, but on many occasions the mistakes he's made have lead to the death of others.

EDIT: Oh, and I almost forgot, in his first appearance (48 Hours) he tried to kill Teal'c. His misunderstanding of how the Gate works, and how long it does what it does, lead to him giving the SGC a finite time limit on how long they should stop using the Stargate, and if Carter hadn't vehemently opposed him, Teal'c would never have walked out of the event horizon.

Warning: Atlantis spoilers to follow!

An Atlantis scientist died in the first malfuction within Trinity (Prior to where Rodney blew up the star system); the pilot of McKay's jumper died in Grace Under Pressure after McKay repaired it and certified it as "fit to fly," only to have it crash in the ocean; and Peter Grodin died in The Siege (Part I) after McKay's repairs to the Ancient weapons satellite had unintentioned side effects that made it impossible to retrieve Peter before the arrival of the Wraith.

In fact, last night he blew up Atlantis's Stargate when he activated Janus's device without fully understanding the consequences, and though the episode ended on a cliffhanger, it might very well have killed Radek (I don't say John, because we know they're not killing the star, but they've never had a problem with killing the pH.D we've grown to love after many years).

As Elizabeth Weir stated, there are times when he needs to be protected from himself, and he can not always judge the true effects of his actions. He's never pointed a gun at somebody and pulled the trigger, but on many occasions the mistakes he's made have lead to the death of others.

EDIT: Oh, and I almost forgot, in his first appearance (48 Hours) he tried to kill Teal'c. His misunderstanding of how the Gate works, and how long it does what it does, lead to him giving the SGC a finite time limit on how long they should stop using the Stargate, and if Carter hadn't vehemently opposed him, Teal'c would never have walked out of the event horizon.

Your first example would have happened regardless of who turned on the reactor. To your second example, I was under the impression that Zalenka was in charge of the jumper repair. As well, Griffin sacrificed himself to save McKay and get the rear bulkhead doors closed. Thirdly, Peter Grodin's death wasn't McKay's fault, as Grodin told McKay that there was no time to pick him up before the Wraith arrived. The work-around repair that McKay did was not the cause of Grodin's death, the Wraith destroyed the satellite.

As to last Friday night's episode, he only turned it on because they were going to kill Daniel Jackson. They tried to warn their captors about the side effects of the device, but had NO choice but to turn it on.

ETA: He didn't try to kill Teal'c. He was unconvinced that Teal'c could be rescued.

I'd like to see
Heinleins Starship Troopers vs Hollywoods Starship Troopers.

I expect Heinlein-ites to wipe the floor with the Hollywooders arses.

Book pwns movie. Power armor and the "I'm a bomb!" bomb = epic win.

*edit*

Firefly universe vs. the Half-Life games universe

StarCraft Zerg vs Aliens, StarCraft Protoss vs. Predators

McKay can't stop screaming and babbling incoherently; when he tried to shoot a Wraith in The Siege (Part II) he accidentally ejected the clip from his 9 mm. How do you do that? Seriously, is that even frikkin possible? To actually make your gun fall apart takes a particular brand of martial incompotence.

Carter has the advanced combat training given to Air Force personnel, years of front-line combat experience, and something my kind call "chutzpah." In fact, in the first episode that focused on her she personally whipped Shang Tsung. Shang Tsung! Her first episode, too! Later you see her breaking out of Goa'uld jail cells, singlehandedly staving off Jaffa assaults, and managing to avoid a panic attack every other episode.

Actually, the McKay part isn't true anymore. In recent episodes, he's actually been shown killing wraith with a pistol. He's not up to Carter's level of combat experience, but he's not accidentally ejecting the clip anymore, either.

StarCraft Zerg vs Aliens, StarCraft Protoss vs. Predators

Neither of those work all that well because the Aliens are just clever animals and the Predators don't really seem to operate as a force larger than a handful of individuals, even in the novels or comics.

Now, something I'd like to see:

River vs. Neo. Human psychic demi-god against a man who can bend electronic reality to his will and even manifest parts of his power in real life.

Actually, the McKay part isn't true anymore. In recent episodes, he's actually been shown killing wraith with a pistol. He's not up to Carter's level of combat experience, but he's not accidentally ejecting the clip anymore, either.

In the last episode, as he's running from one of the Wraith Hunters, he's firing blind behind him, and hit the Wraith at least once (IIRC, it was in the shoulder). He also killed that Wraith the was fighting with Keller (although he fumbled with loading the magazine into the pistol before doing so).

In the last episode, as he's running from one of the Wraith Hunters, he's firing blind behind him, and hit the Wraith at least once (IIRC, it was in the shoulder). He also killed that Wraith the was fighting with Keller.

In the same episode with the hunters, he also stopped to clean a rock out of his shoe and ended up shooting a wraith to death and taking their tracking device.

In the same episode with the hunters, he also stopped to clean a rock out of his shoe and ended up shooting a wraith to death and taking their tracking device.

Doh! Forgot about that one.

River vs. Neo.
Neo. It's not even comparable. River is not a demigod, and not even above the reality like Neo; she doesn't see more than others, she just has a vision distorted in timespace. And occasionally pulls out some Deus Ex Machina tricks. Neo has greater control over the world and himself than others, River doesn't have any control.

And I haven't even watched Matrix 2 and 3.


Now, a better one: Malcolm Reynolds vs. Dr.Horrible?

Neo. It's not even comparable. River is not a demigod, and not even above the reality like Neo; she doesn't see more than others, she just has a vision distorted in timespace. And occasionally pulls out some Deus Ex Machina tricks. Neo has greater control over the world and himself than others, River doesn't have any control.

And I haven't even watched Matrix 2 and 3.

Then any discussion of why that is not an accurate projection of Neo's capabilities would be spoiling the movies for you.

And, it should be noted that, compared to the others in Firefly and Serenity, River pretty much is a demi-god. Of course, most demi-gods were the middleground between regular humans and true gods, so...

Then any discussion of why that is not an accurate projection of Neo's capabilities would be spoiling the movies for you.
I'm not going to watch these movies, they are fail.

But I assume Neo only got stronger, right?


And, it should be noted that, compared to the others in Firefly and Serenity, River pretty much is a demi-god. Of course, most demi-gods were the middleground between regular humans and true gods, so...
Not even remotely. "Demigod" assumes something well above a superhero, and she is even potentially only halfway to a superhero. A bit of Mary Sue with psychic capabilities, and that's it.

I'm not going to watch these movies, they are fail.

But I assume Neo only got stronger, right?

Actually, not really. If anything, he only gets weaker. Now, if you want to talk about getting stronger, you have to talk about Agent Smith. He gets massively stronger and... Well, saying more would be spoiling it. Let's just say that the first movie kinda hinted at Neo's final fate. Kinda sad how it ended, too, but not that unexpected.

Not even remotely. "Demigod" assumes something well above a superhero, and she is even potentially only halfway to a superhero. A bit of Mary Sue with psychic capabilities, and that's it.

Depends on how you look at it. Historically, the examples we have of demigods tend to include such people as Hercules. The problem is that these people, themselves are not above superheroic. In fact, some of them are weak enough in power that they don't even qualify as superhuman. Going by realistic comparison between superheroes and actual mythology of demi-gods, superheroes actually tend to come out more powerful on average. So, by those standards, I stand by my assertion that River qualifies as a demi-god.

To get an idea, Storm is about as powerful as any full storm deity in human mythology and I'm pretty sure that Wolverine unarguably qualifies for godhood.

Interesting Scenario. Of course, to incorporate the Firefly universe into this sort of thing, it has to be. Technologically the Firefly universe isn't all that advanced, and the Alliance's territory is small relative to some of the vast interstellar empires and organizations seen in other Sci-Fi universes.The Event Horizon can travel to and from alternate dimensions. It wouldn't have to be integrated intot he Firefly universe, it just needs to appear.

Now, a better one: Malcolm Reynolds vs. Dr.Horrible?
Mal. Dr. Horrible has certain expectations as to how his villainy needs to be perceived while Mal is perfectly willing to sucker punch anyone he percieves as a threat. Unless Billy gets extraordinarily lucky, he won't win against Mal.

Depends on how you look at it. Historically, the examples we have of demigods tend to include such people as Hercules. The problem is that these people, themselves are not above superheroic. In fact, some of them are weak enough in power that they don't even qualify as superhuman. Going by realistic comparison between superheroes and actual mythology of demi-gods, superheroes actually tend to come out more powerful on average. So, by those standards, I stand by my assertion that River qualifies as a demi-god.Hercules is a demi-god for the same reasons I'm a demi-German. In simpler words: One of his parents was a God, one wasn't.

Actually, not really. If anything, he only gets weaker. Now, if you want to talk about getting stronger, you have to talk about Agent Smith. He gets massively stronger and... Well, saying more would be spoiling it. Let's just say that the first movie kinda hinted at Neo's final fate. Kinda sad how it ended, too, but not that unexpected.
Let's take him at his strongest, then.

What does River have to put against him?


Depends on how you look at it. Historically, the examples we have of demigods tend to include such people as Hercules. [...]
If you take that old definition, where it's anyone stronger than regular men, then yes. It's just too distant from the modern connotations of the word.

I REALLY hope you're not referring to THIS Twiki: http://www.edsfamily.com/ed/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/twiki2.jpg

I really doubt he'd stand a chance against either team.

No - that's the guy.

And since the SG1 team (just like the Atlantis team) are so inept they couldn't get laid in a brothel, with $100 dollar bills stuffed in their asses... I stand by it.

Let's take him at his strongest, then.

What does River have to put against him?
River only needs to strangle him while he's hooked up to the Matrix. She's not hooked up to it, and his muscles are putty in the real world.

Mal. Dr. Horrible has certain expectations as to how his villainy needs to be perceived while Mal is perfectly willing to sucker punch anyone he percieves as a threat. Unless Billy gets extraordinarily lucky, he won't win against Mal.

Nah, Dr Horrible by a long way. Hes a ruthless killing machine, and an evil genius - and hes backed by a small army of similar luminaries of evil.

Mal, on the other hand - and don't get me wrong, I LOVE Firefly.... well, the think you have to remember about Mal is... he's a tit.

Drunken punch-up? Yeah, Mal'll take him. Otherwise, advantage Dr Horrible. He does have a phD in horribleness.

Let's take him at his strongest, then.

What does River have to put against him?


She's a pschic killingmachine, and he's a pasty white kid who is better than average at video games?

River only needs to strangle him while he's hooked up to the Matrix. She's not hooked up to it, and his muscles are putty in the real world.
No-no-no. There's no River in the real world. As we all know, the real world is ruled by evil machines which use humans as energy source and small rodents as batteries for flashlights.

Firefly universe as a whole and River in particular are all in the matrix. This also explains all the scientific inconsistencies.

No-no-no. There's no River in the real world. As we all know, the real world is ruled by evil machines which use humans as energy source and small rodents as batteries for flashlights.

Firefly universe as a whole and River in particular are all in the matrix. This also explains all the scientific inconsistencies.

Errr... all we know about EARTH (in the Matrix stories) is that its ruled by machines. That doesn't rule out a firefly-class ship somewhere else...

Errr... all we know about EARTH (in the Matrix stories) is that its ruled by machines. That doesn't rule out a firefly-class ship somewhere else...
"When EARTH was used up..."

So we do know where they come from. And, according to Matrix, humanity was machinized well before a chance for a journey to the stars.

Thus, Firefly is set in an advanced matrix.

"When EARTH was used up..."

So we do know where they come from. And, according to Matrix, humanity was machinized well before a chance for a journey to the stars.

Thus, Firefly is set in an advanced matrix.

Or not. They could just be parallel. Or the flavour text in the Matrix could be misleading or incomplete. Or - since we have no idea when the Matrix is set, they could be at entirely different times.

We're assuming that the two forces are somehow capable of coming together - we're leaving the precise mechanism to the imagination, because it's got to differ from story to story (if the Pak Protector race fights Heinlein's Space Marines, they pretty much HAVE to be coming from parallel universes, or something - because the rough extent of 'known space' is pretty much known in each canon, and doesn't include the other).

You're invoking a meeting IN the Matrix... but there's really no reason to assume that's where the stories MUST intercept - except that you wish it to be so.

Further - even if it DID, just because it takes place IN the matrix, doesn't give Neo an automatic advantage. Neo isn't the ONLY 'one'.

You're invoking a meeting IN the Matrix... but there's really no reason to assume that's where the stories MUST intercept - except that you wish it to be so.
There is a reason. The whole movie, "Matrix", is built upon the philosophical idea that our our world might be just an illusion, and we can never know. The main world there is the Matrix, "outside" is a pretty small place.

If you take this idea out of the Matrix, and flood its world with hundreds of other Earths and the majority of humans living outside the Matrix, it loses all the point and turns into a worthless roll of wasted film.


And if that's not enough, the most definitive argument is that Neo is defined by being 'above' the Matrix; outside of it, he's nobody, and thus there'd be no point in comparing them.



Further - even if it DID, just because it takes place IN the matrix, doesn't give Neo an automatic advantage. Neo isn't the ONLY 'one'.
So? As long as he is one, he's got the power to locally control the Matrix.

There is a reason. The whole movie, "Matrix", is built upon the philosophical idea that our our world might be just an illusion, and we can never know. The main world there is the Matrix, "outside" is a pretty small place.

If you take this idea out of the Matrix, and flood its world with hundreds of other Earths and the majority of humans living outside the Matrix, it loses all the point and turns into a worthless roll of wasted film.


And if that's not enough, the most definitive argument is that Neo is defined by being 'above' the Matrix; outside of it, he's nobody, and thus there'd be no point in comparing them.


Clearly, you haven't seen the rest of the films.

Not to mention - you're confusing the focus of the movie, with the world it is 'in' - even in the first movie.


So? As long as he is one, he's got the power to locally control the Matrix.

As do others. Quite a lot of others, it transpires. River could be one.

There is a reason. The whole movie, "Matrix", is built upon the philosophical idea that our our world might be just an illusion, and we can never know. The main world there is the Matrix, "outside" is a pretty small place.

If you take this idea out of the Matrix, and flood its world with hundreds of other Earths and the majority of humans living outside the Matrix, it loses all the point and turns into a worthless roll of wasted film.


And if that's not enough, the most definitive argument is that Neo is defined by being 'above' the Matrix; outside of it, he's nobody, and thus there'd be no point in comparing them.




So? As long as he is one, he's got the power to locally control the Matrix.


I thought the matrix was a wasted roll of film.

Your first example would have happened regardless of who turned on the reactor. To your second example, I was under the impression that Zalenka was in charge of the jumper repair. As well, Griffin sacrificed himself to save McKay and get the rear bulkhead doors closed. Thirdly, Peter Grodin's death wasn't McKay's fault, as Grodin told McKay that there was no time to pick him up before the Wraith arrived. The work-around repair that McKay did was not the cause of Grodin's death, the Wraith destroyed the satellite. KLONOR EDIT: McKay couldn't get him because the repairs he had done had disabled the airlock, he physically could not get back into the satellite. There wasn't enough time to re-wire the whole thing to get Grodin out, so they decided to wait until the Wraith had been destroyed and go back for him. Then the satellite overloaded and the Wraith blew it up.

As to last Friday night's episode, he only turned it on because they were going to kill Daniel Jackson. They tried to warn their captors about the side effects of the device, but had NO choice but to turn it on.

ETA: He didn't try to kill Teal'c. He was unconvinced that Teal'c could be rescued.

That's pretty much all exactly my point, that he didn't know or didn't predict. He knew Project Arcturus had been shut down for a reason, same with janus's project, and instead of taking the time to figure it out, he turned it on and hoped for the best (I understand Daniel was under threat of death, but even without bringing in the "Just like every other episodes" angle, I must point out that he has repeatedly risked, and even given up, his life in order to protect the galaxy). Any competent scientist tries to understand what they're doing before they do it. McKay does things without knowing what's going to happen, he just assumes he can fix it if things go wrong (In fact, in Sunday, he said exactly that, that it's okay for him to do something without a clue of its consequences, because he's smart enough to fix it afterwards). We've seen that there are times when he simply can't cover it up.

The Event Horizon can travel to and from alternate dimensions. It wouldn't have to be integrated intot he Firefly universe, it just needs to appear.


I wasn't saying anything about Event Horizon's capabilities. I was saying how despite the show's awesomeness, Firefly doesn't work in the regular "all this Sci-Fi universe's stuff vs. all this Sci-Fi universe's stuff."

So no one reads Stephen Baxter other than me? :(

DOS games - Descent vs. Terminal Velocity

So no one reads Stephen Baxter other than me? :(

You mean the XeeLee sequence? "Raft" and so on?

He's not really a mainstream author, too science-y for the typical reader.

Catherine Asaro's universe would be interesting, psychics running single person fighters that would take out the enterprise without a problem, backed up by warships larger than most universes space habitats... run them up against the Borg :D

So no one reads Stephen Baxter other than me? :(

I've read The Light of Other Days which was co-written with Arthur C. Clarke. It was mediocre. But that could have been Clarke's fault.

See my list (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14046785&postcount=59) of obscure sci-fi match-ups.

You mean the XeeLee sequence? "Raft" and so on?

He's not really a mainstream author, too science-y for the typical reader.

Really? I always found it extremely easy to follow. In fact, I think he dumbs it down a little too much at points.

But I AM going into the Navy's nuclear program, so I guess I'm just weird like that.
I've read The Light of Other Days which was co-written with Arthur C. Clarke. It was mediocre. But that could have been Clarke's fault.

Try the Time's Eye series instead. Also cowritten with Clark, and it involves the Firstborn.

But generally Stephen Baxter does do better on his own. (You should see his sequel to the Time Machine. Fun stuff, there.)

See my list (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14046785&postcount=59) of obscure sci-fi match-ups.

Nice list there. I can't take them though, not being expert enough.

Metroid versus Halo. In both, you have a wide arrange of different units and a decent selection of vehicles. It's single-player vs. multiplayer. Niche versus mainstream. Invented an entire sci-fi game genre versus did what everyone else already did, but better. underhyped versus overhyped. They are practically opposites.

I reckon the 40K universe could match up against most SF universes.

Though it's be interesting to see what folks though of a match-up that's not necessarily between two warlike universes. How would, for example, Ursula le Guin's Hainish Cycle universe fair?

EDIT: Saying that, Muad'Dib would clean up.
Eh, 40k borrows a lot of its stuff from various works of scifi so I think it's a bit unfair to match it up. I mean, Space Marines are greatly inspired by Starship Troopers, Tyrranids are heavily influenced by Alien and even the Empire in general draws heavily from Dune in a variety of ways.

With that said, Leto II is near immortal, almost invincible and can see the freaking future. Hell, the only reason he ever died was primarily due to his own choice. Muad'Dib couldn't do much, but his son would be a hard match to win.

Dune Vs. Starship Troopers. Starship Troopers. There's only so much Giant Worms and lightning fast martial arts can do.

Eh, being able to know exactly what the MI would do, how they were going to do it, and when would really nullify their power over the Dune universe. The whole mobile part of MI is supposed to give them a tactical edge that they'd lose if fighting either Muad'Dib or Leto II...and no one knows whether or not any of their weapons would be effective against Leto II...unless they got a supersoaker, then he's fucked. :(

This makes me wonder, though. Was Starship Troopers ever confirmed to be a part of Heinlein's universe? I don't think I remember them ever being mentioned in any of his other stories (the MI that is). Then again, his "universe" was large and varied, to say the least, as the Lazarus Long series and Number of the Beast showed. Still, though, I wish there were more books about the MI. =\

Try the Time's Eye series instead. Also cowritten with Clark, and it involves the Firstborn.

But generally Stephen Baxter does do better on his own. (You should see his sequel to the Time Machine. Fun stuff, there.)

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of Clarke.

Nice list there. I can't take them though, not being expert enough.

Alfred Bester; Gregory Benford

Karl Schroeder; Sean McMullen
Roger Zelazny; Schroeder
Walter Jon Williams; Orson Scott Card
Jeff Noon; Rudy Rucker

Have at it: they're all good.

Metroid versus Halo.

Haloid (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/57998.html). Been done. Everyone loves Masterchick.

Master of Orion vs. whatever you suggest?

MOO vs Dune.

or, even better, Dune vs Asimov's Foundations.

King Jame's Bible's god vs American Standard bible's God.

GO!

Nah, Dr Horrible by a long way. Hes a ruthless killing machine, and an evil genius - and hes backed by a small army of similar luminaries of evil.

Mal, on the other hand - and don't get me wrong, I LOVE Firefly.... well, the think you have to remember about Mal is... he's a tit.

Drunken punch-up? Yeah, Mal'll take him. Otherwise, advantage Dr Horrible. He does have a phD in horribleness.Ruthless? Have we watched the same three part musical? Dr. Horrible puts way too much emphasis on appearance, as shown when he tries to kill Captain Hammer. Mal wouldn't have held a monologue before shooting him and would have used his own gun.

Lol awesome.

Do we include Unicron on the Transformers side?

... what would the effects of Spice be on a transformer?

... what would the effects of Spice be on a transformer?

Transformers eat?

Ruthless? Have we watched the same three part musical? Dr. Horrible puts way too much emphasis on appearance, as shown when he tries to kill Captain Hammer. Mal wouldn't have held a monologue before shooting him and would have used his own gun.

Well, at the start of the story, Dr Horrible simply wouldn't have killed anybody.

He still felt too much respect for human life.

By the time he monologues to the Frozen Capt Hammer, he's beyond that - but he's still reluctant.

He's worried that Penny will see. He still cares what other people might think... although now he's willing to kill.

What are the last five words of the show?

"I won't feel... a thing"

Battletech vs Anything.


Battletech wins.

Battletech vs Anything.

Battletech wins.

You think? I wouldn't mind seeing 40k face off against Battletech...

Transformers eat?

Energon. And Grimlock eats everything ;)

You think? I wouldn't mind seeing 40k face off against Battletech...

That would be interesting. My money would still go on battletech, but I think by the time it was over there wouldnt be much left of either side.

I would put my money on the Clan warrior piloting a Dire Wolf or any other suitable 100 ton omnimech over anything any other universe can throw at him.

Battletech vs Anything.
Battletech wins.

A mysterious virus makes your robots conduits rot away. A few generations later some Piersons Puppeteers come by and offer to sell unaffected technology.

That would be interesting. My money would still go on battletech, but I think by the time it was over there wouldnt be much left of either side.

I would put my money on the Clan warrior piloting a Dire Wolf or any other suitable 100 ton omnimech over anything any other universe can throw at him.

Those Imperial Titans are no slackers, either, you know - especially the Imperator - it's the kind of support fire that you can only get on a ground emplacement... with legs.

Those Imperial Titans are no slackers, either, you know - especially the Imperator - it's the kind of support fire that you can only get on a ground emplacement... with legs.

But theyre limited in ability. Just swarm them with Elementals. Battlemechs tend to be armed with various anti-personel weapons as well as big ass long range guns, Titans tend to be just that, fire support, not the main killers like a battlemech is. Plus, a few Nagas with Arrow IVs can do a fire support role just as well.

But most imporantly, Titans and Space Marines, the only things that give 40k a chance, are very rare, and grossely outnumbered. There are probably 20+ mechs for every titan, and at least that many elementals for every space marines.

The Marine vs Elemental would be interesting, as theyre both super soldiers genetically breed for combat and train their whole lives.

Titan vs Mech? Not even close. A titan's crew are still normal men. A battlemech (at least in the Clan's case) are a warrior elite, genetically bred for this role and have endured rigorous training their whole lives for it. They also SEEK death, something an Imperial crew doesnt.

While technology in the two universes is about equal (or close) Battletech I think would win due to greater numbers of its elites as well as the training of its pilots and soldiers.

If it were just 40k vs the Inner Sphere, Id have to rethink a bit.

EDIT: Can you tell Im a Clan player? :p

Well, at the start of the story, Dr Horrible simply wouldn't have killed anybody.

He still felt too much respect for human life.

By the time he monologues to the Frozen Capt Hammer, he's beyond that - but he's still reluctant.

He's worried that Penny will see. He still cares what other people might think... although now he's willing to kill.

What are the last five words of the show?

"I won't feel... a thing"I've interpreted the last words differently: He's got everything he's wanted, but it turns it's not exactly what he really wanted. As you can see when he's robbing the bank, his new found success is because everyone's scared of him, not because he's gotten better.

That would be interesting. My money would still go on battletech, but I think by the time it was over there wouldnt be much left of either side.

I would put my money on the Clan warrior piloting a Dire Wolf or any other suitable 100 ton omnimech over anything any other universe can throw at him.

There is no other suitable 100 ton omnimech. Daishi FTW.

But theyre limited in ability. Just swarm them with Elementals. Battlemechs tend to be armed with various anti-personel weapons as well as big ass long range guns, Titans tend to be just that, fire support, not the main killers like a battlemech is. Plus, a few Nagas with Arrow IVs can do a fire support role just as well.

You seem to miss how titans are vastly superior to a battle mech sir! Titans use void sheilds, vortex misslies, and many kinds of anti-titan weapons. A warhound scout titan would be roughly simlier to an Assault Mech in terms of size and power!

But most imporantly, Titans and Space Marines, the only things that give 40k a chance, are very rare, and grossely outnumbered. There are probably 20+ mechs for every titan, and at least that many elementals for every space marines.

I will say marines and elementals would be on the same, but the imperium also pumps out increadible amounts of other war materials, and men. Capitol Imperialus? Titans arn't the only forms of super heavys.

The Marine vs Elemental would be interesting, as theyre both super soldiers genetically breed for combat and train their whole lives.

Titan vs Mech? Not even close. A titan's crew are still normal men. A battlemech (at least in the Clan's case) are a warrior elite, genetically bred for this role and have endured rigorous training their whole lives for it. They also SEEK death, something an Imperial crew doesnt.

While technology in the two universes is about equal (or close) Battletech I think would win due to greater numbers of its elites as well as the training of its pilots and soldiers.

If it were just 40k vs the Inner Sphere, Id have to rethink a bit.

EDIT: Can you tell Im a Clan player? :p

I have to cut this short because I have to sneak off to class, but I think you give the Imperium (not the WHOLE 40k universe) much credit!

Transformers eat?
Unicron eats planets. ;)

Battletech vs Anything.


Battletech wins.

not so fast. Battletech would be pwnd by Mekton.

Transformers eat?

Just energon it seems to me.

... what would the effects of Spice be on a transformer?

I doubt it would really affect them.

King Jame's Bible's god vs American Standard bible's God.

GO!

This is Sci-Fi, not fantasy.

Just energon it seems to me.
the Insecticons are shown eating plants as well as metal.

I doubt it would really affect them.
or it could be a form of Robotic LSD! :eek:

the Insecticons are shown eating plants as well as metal.
True. They'll eat anything, though, and were already a bit crazy

or it could be a form of Robotic LSD! :eek:
Could be. The transformers don't appear to have any narcotics of their own.

Could be. The transformers don't appear to have any narcotics of their own.
tho they can get loopy if their gyros are turned off. :p

I've interpreted the last words differently: He's got everything he's wanted, but it turns it's not exactly what he really wanted. As you can see when he's robbing the bank, his new found success is because everyone's scared of him, not because he's gotten better.


Here lives everything
The world I wanted at my feet
My victory's complete
So hail to the king

Everything you ever...

Arise and sing

So, your world's benign
So, you think justice has a voice
And we all have a choice
Now your world is mine

Everything you ever...

And I am fine


Music changes to: Brand New Day
Music changes to: Dr Horrible theme


Now the nightmare's real
Now Dr Horrible is here
To make you quake with fear
To make the whole world kneel

Everything you ever...

...and I won't feel... a thing


The first verse says - yes, isn't this all I ever wanted. But this is what Billy always wanted - Dr Horrible was a fantasy, he wasn't really 'evil', and these are the things that would have been the fruition of all of Billy's ideas.

The second verse says - it's not enough. It wasn't ever really what Billy wanted - just what he THOUGHT he wanted. The "I am fine" couldn't be any less convincing.

The change of the music illustrates a transformation - from a melancholy song about gaining everything but losing everything, to the song about revenge, to the Dr Horrible theme - the transformation of Billy.

And the third verse - the third verse isn't Billy. In getting everything he ever wanted, Dr Horrible lost the two things he needed - Penny, and Billy. Billy is now just a shadow sitting in a dark room, with no voice.


As a commentary, it says 'this is how evil is made - by losing everything that made you good'. So... Dr Horrible takes his place among the Evil League of Evil, because now he deserves it. He becomes the arch-villain, because he no longer cares.

Music changes to: Brand New Day
Music changes to: Dr Horrible theme



The first verse says - yes, isn't this all I ever wanted. But this is what Billy always wanted - Dr Horrible was a fantasy, he wasn't really 'evil', and these are the things that would have been the fruition of all of Billy's ideas.

The second verse says - it's not enough. It wasn't ever really what Billy wanted - just what he THOUGHT he wanted. The "I am fine" couldn't be any less convincing.

The change of the music illustrates a transformation - from a melancholy song about gaining everything but losing everything, to the song about revenge, to the Dr Horrible theme - the transformation of Billy.

And the third verse - the third verse isn't Billy. In getting everything he ever wanted, Dr Horrible lost the two things he needed - Penny, and Billy. Billy is now just a shadow sitting in a dark room, with no voice.


As a commentary, it says 'this is how evil is made - by losing everything that made you good'. So... Dr Horrible takes his place among the Evil League of Evil, because now he deserves it. He becomes the arch-villain, because he no longer cares.I've always seen it as the change that turns him into a villain is less the change that goes on inside him, but more the change in perception of the outside world. He lost Penny and doesn't care for what he wanted before and plays along with it.

I'm mainly taking this from the bank robbery scene in that song where he wants to threaten people with his device, only to see they're already complying. Being a villain isn't what he thought it was, but he no longer really cares enough to enjoy it. Overall, I don't think he's a successful super-villain now because of the change inside of him, but because people see him as one instead of a joke and therefore don't do anything that would stop him.

Four matchups off the top of my head...

1 - plant war: Bodysnatchers v. Triffids

2 - robot war: Terminators v. the robots from P.K. Dick's short story 'Second Variety'

3 - Clark's Law war: Timelords of Gallifrey v. the Firstborn [monolith makers from 2001]

4 - semi-biological war: one Dalek v. 10 Bladerunner replicants


Any takers?

1. Simon Green's Deathstalker series vs Warhammer 40,000: Battle of the distant future empires

2. The Honor Harrington Series vs Starship Troopers

3. Mass Effect Vs Warhammer 40,000: The Reapers vs the Necrons

Bald vs Toupees.

Bald vs Toupees.

That's not science fiction.

And bald, btw. Toupees are tacky.

That's not science fiction.

And bald, btw. Toupees are tacky.

"There's something on the wing... Some... THING!"

2. The Honor Harrington Series vs Starship Troopers

Which Starship Troopers, the movie or book? Either way, we don't really know that much about the naval abilities of the Terran Federation. I think on the ground the MI from the novels would beat down the Royal Manticoran Marines but I think the Royal Manticoran Navy may be more than a match for the Terran Navy and if you can't deliver ground troops they don't do you much good.

Proton/Phaze vs. Earth a la Night Watch

This is Sci-Fi, not fantasy.
FTW!
*bows*

Haloid (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/57998.html). Been done. Everyone loves Masterchick.

Uhh, by Metroid vs. Halo, I wasn't talking just Master Chief versus Samus Aran. I was talking Metroid universe versus Halo universe. Earth marines versus Galactic Federation marines. Space pirates versus covanent. I could go into detail about various Metroid units and somewhat into detail about Halo units. All my Metroid and Halo knowledge comes from the games I played and I haven't played Halo 3 or Metroid Prime 3: Corruption.

DOS games - Descent vs. Terminal Velocity

Descent rulez. Quad laser lvl 4, Vulcan cannon, homing missiles, yeah!

Sponge Bob square pants and bikini bottom could easily defeat the entire warhammer 40k universe!

what about Ramage Vs Hornblower?

UNSC vs the Daleks (Halo / Doctor Who)
Systems Alliance Military vs the Cybermen (Mass Effect / Doctor Who)
Time Lords vs the Flood (Doctor Who / Halo)
Antaran New Orions vs the Covenant (Master of Orion 3 / Halo)
The Flood vs the Autons (Halo / Doctor Who)
The Forerunners vs the Daleks (Halo / Doctor Who)
The Covenant vs the Turian Hierarchy (Halo / Mass Effect)
Covenant San'Shyuum vs the Asari Republics (Halo / Mass Effect)
Intersolar Commonwealth vs Confederation (Commonwealth Saga / Night's Dawn Trilogy)
The Doctor vs the Flood (Doctor Who / Halo)
Mickey Smith vs the Master Chief (Doctor Who / Halo)
Rose Tyler vs 343 Guilty Spark (Doctor Who / Halo)
The Vashta Nerada vs the Covenant Loyalists (Doctor Who / Halo)
Satan vs Tartarus (Doctor Who / Halo)
The Doctor vs the Starflyer (Doctor Who / Commonwealth Saga)

Ender Wiggin kills them all. Then cries about it. *nod*

Peter scares Ender away.

Alien vs Clanger

...or Alien versus Predator - I mean that is such an awesome concept that nobody could make a bad film of it. And the sequels would just get better and better....

UNSC vs the Daleks (Halo / Doctor Who)
Systems Alliance Military vs the Cybermen (Mass Effect / Doctor Who)
Time Lords vs the Flood (Doctor Who / Halo)
Antaran New Orions vs the Covenant (Master of Orion 3 / Halo)
The Flood vs the Autons (Halo / Doctor Who)
The Forerunners vs the Daleks (Halo / Doctor Who)
The Covenant vs the Turian Hierarchy (Halo / Mass Effect)
Covenant San'Shyuum vs the Asari Republics (Halo / Mass Effect)
Intersolar Commonwealth vs Confederation (Commonwealth Saga / Night's Dawn Trilogy)
The Doctor vs the Flood (Doctor Who / Halo)
Mickey Smith vs the Master Chief (Doctor Who / Halo)
Rose Tyler vs 343 Guilty Spark (Doctor Who / Halo)
The Vashta Nerada vs the Covenant Loyalists (Doctor Who / Halo)
Satan vs Tartarus (Doctor Who / Halo)
The Doctor vs the Starflyer (Doctor Who / Commonwealth Saga)

The First Doctor vs. The Eighth Doctor

...or Alien versus Predator - I mean that is such an awesome concept that nobody could make a bad film of it. And the sequels would just get better and better....
The first had Aliens and Preds fighting along with a Queen, the sequel gave us a PredAlien, lots of Aliens infesting a town and a chick in underwear. What more do you want?!

well i think cherreh's chenur's universe, and then schmitz' telzy one.

although i think lafferty's, well it has certain advantages such as possessing BOTH eirish pookas AND nine hundred native american grandmothers, not to mention epiktestis, the worlds first tistic machine. well that could be paired off with douglas adam's perhapse somewhat more familiar deep thought, both being from "infinite improbability" universes.

UNSC vs the Daleks (Halo / Doctor Who)

I'd probably have to give that one to the Daleks. I'm not a huge fan of the Halo series (enjoyed Halo 1 enough, never played Halo 2 due to its Xbox exclusivity, and I couldn't stomach Halo 3 enough to finish it) but I don't see their weapons touching the Daleks, particularly not in their modern incarnation. The Daleks faced off against the fecking Time Lords and won, for crying out loud.

Systems Alliance Military vs the Cybermen (Mass Effect / Doctor Who)

I'd say in naval combat the Systems Alliance would probably reign supreme, but when the battle became more personal... I don't know what effect their mass accelerator weapons would have on a Cyberman. I'd give it to the Cybermen, personally.

Time Lords vs the Flood (Doctor Who / Halo)

Not really a contest - the Time Lords. Just wipe 'em from existence before they even become a problem.

The Covenant vs the Turian Hierarchy (Halo / Mass Effect)

I prefer the turians, but their technology is just a bit too inferior, and their ships too few in numbers, for them to really have a great shot at the Covenant.

Covenant San'Shyuum vs the Asari Republics (Halo / Mass Effect)[/quote]

With their colossal dreadnoughts and an inordinate number of biotic warriors, I'd chalk this one up as an Asari victory.

The Doctor vs the Flood (Doctor Who / Halo)

Could the Doctor regenerate after being turned into a mutated zombie? Could the Doctor even be turned into a zombie? I don't know. I doubt a sonic screwdriver could finish off the entire Flood either way.

Rose Tyler vs 343 Guilty Spark (Doctor Who / Halo)

I'd say Guilty Spark - it'd be a moral victory.

***

Personally I'd like to see the Turian Hierarchy go up against someone a bit more on their level - like the Combine of Half-Life 2 fame, or the Mobile Infantry from the Starship Troopers movie (the guys in the book would probably be a little unfair). They are described as tenacious fighters, and their warships are rockin'. Their kinetic barriers would be a significant advantage against civilisations reliant upon projectile weaponry.

The Aliens from Independance day V.S The Covenant. (Halo)

Starcraft universe vs 40K universe

Starcraft universe vs 40K universe

But we must construct additional Pylons...

Dune vs. Time Lords (Paul vs. The Doctor)

Dune vs. Time Lords (Paul vs. The Doctor)

Hrm...why is it always Paul? Leto II was like a million times more badass than Paul. Paul was really a whiny little emobitch. But, anyway, it'd come down to whether or not the TARDIS shields its occupants from prescience. But, by the same token, wtf could The Doctor even do to Leto II after he's been all wormed up. Maybe he could fly the TARDIS above him and have it filled with water and then drop it on him?

But we must construct additional Pylons...

Not enough mineral.

Not enough mineral.

You need more Vespine gas.

Hrm...why is it always Paul? Leto II was like a million times more badass than Paul. Paul was really a whiny little emobitch. But, anyway, it'd come down to whether or not the TARDIS shields its occupants from prescience. But, by the same token, wtf could The Doctor even do to Leto II after he's been all wormed up. Maybe he could fly the TARDIS above him and have it filled with water and then drop it on him?
Doctor goes back in time and kills the Lady Jessica while she is an infant?

The Heart of Gold vs anyone.

Just for the lulz of the IID:)

Doctor goes back in time and kills the Lady Jessica while she is an infant?

The thing with that is, I don't think I've ever seen Dr. Who really flesh out the rules of their time travel in regards to changing history. Then again, I only ever watched the Tom Baker episodes and the newest one.

Doctor goes back in time and kills the Lady Jessica while she is an infant?

not sure The Doctor would do that isnt there an episoide where the Dcotor had chance to wipe out the Daleks before they where became what they where and He refused to do it

Which Starship Troopers, the movie or book? Either way, we don't really know that much about the naval abilities of the Terran Federation. I think on the ground the MI from the novels would beat down the Royal Manticoran Marines but I think the Royal Manticoran Navy may be more than a match for the Terran Navy and if you can't deliver ground troops they don't do you much good.


I saw the movie but didn't read the book but I intend to when I can find an copy. I do agree the Royal Manticoran navy got the raw firepower at an distance and close up to hold their own if not win any battle. A for an ground battle if it even got that far from what I read in Honor of the Queen the Manticoran Marines got some good battle armor and weaponary. Those belt fed Tribarrels and plasma rifles are brutal. However I think it would get decided in space and as you noted if the Manticoran navy mopped the floor with the Terran navy it would be all over.

Thundercats vs Kzinti. In equal numbers of course.

not sure The Doctor would do that isnt there an episoide where the Dcotor had chance to wipe out the Daleks before they where became what they where and He refused to do it

I think the point is that any universe with regular, controlled time travel always wins in a fight.

I saw the movie but didn't read the book but I intend to when I can find an copy. I do agree the Royal Manticoran navy got the raw firepower at an distance and close up to hold their own if not win any battle. A for an ground battle if it even got that far from what I read in Honor of the Queen the Manticoran Marines got some good battle armor and weaponary. Those belt fed Tribarrels and plasma rifles are brutal. However I think it would get decided in space and as you noted if the Manticoran navy mopped the floor with the Terran navy it would be all over.

The Manticoran Marines would likely be much better than the Mobile Infantry from the movies but the Mobile Infantry from the book are rather more like Space Marines from 40k than the quasi-modern infantry from the movies.

Thundercats vs Kzinti. In equal numbers of course.

Not even close. Ten minutes, tops, and the Kzin are wearing thundercat slippers.

The Turian Hierarchy from Mass Effect vs. the Covenant from Halo, I think, would be a pretty even and interesting matchup.

PokeMon vs Neo Pets!

Round 1: Doc Smith's Lensmen vs. Clifford Simak's Cosmic Engineers
Round 2: Winner of round 1 vs. David Brin's Uplift universe (non-humans only).

Dr. Who vs Star Trek!

The Borg don't stand a chance against Dr. Who's sonic screwdriver!

Dr. Who vs Star Trek!

The Borg don't stand a chance against Dr. Who's sonic screwdriver!Especially considering their disqualification due to the no ST rule... =P

Especially considering their disqualification due to the no ST rule... =P

I thought they meant no ST vs SW

I thought they meant no ST vs SWIt says "or" in the OP.

It says "or" in the OP.

Well I never really payed full attention to the OP

PokeMon vs Neo Pets!

The neopets get rid of all the pokemans' thetans, thus turning them into more neopets.

The neopets get rid of all the pokemans' thetans, thus turning them into more neopets.

No way. The Pokemon would clearly win, thanks to the superiority of pokeism over Neopetism. And the Pokeists must act swiftly before the Neopetists take over neighboring Baseball Cardia. The Pokeists will crush the Neopetists before a Domino Effect can take place.

And now on to bigger issues:
In regards to the infamous Metroid v. Halo debate that has raged accross the many internets and sparked many flamewars, here are some scenerios. The heroes, ie. Samus, Master Chief, and Arbiter, are to be left out, even though we all know Samus has the advantage (thermal and heat visors to negate any stealth advantage. arm cannon can hold up to 255 missiles at any one time. Samus's missiles tend to home in on targets. etc.). Anyhow:
UNSC vs. Galactic Federation
Covenent vs. space pirates
UNSC vs. space pirates
covenent vs. Galactic Federation

UNSC and GF vs. space pirates and covenent
UNSC and space pirates vs. GF and covenent
UNSC and covenent vs. GF and space pirates

Throw in the Chozo, Luminoth (moth guys in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes), Ing (black puddle bug things also from MP2:E), Metroids, X (Metroid Fusion), Forerunners, and Flood, and you've got a scenerio.

How about Stargate v Farscape?