NationStates Jolt Archive

So, the options are "lawyer" or "ignorant civilian"?

Sure, ask a lawyer to prove otherwise. ;)

Diligent citizen isn't a nice middle ground? Or, for somebody who will soon be President of the Senate, perhaps some familiarity, at least beyond the characterization of "ignorant" (not my term) with the law?

Diligent citizen, how is a diligent citizen not also an ignorant civilian? You haven't shown me how they aren't one and the same.

Its okay, though...as you've established, if/when she takes some action grossly inconsistent with rudimentary grasp of the law, it won't be her fault. It will be the attorney general's fault.

She showed her grossly inconsistent and rudimentary grasp of the law when she expressed that she thought her innocence alone would be a sufficient defense.

Oh, so now you with the communication of a defammatory falsehood to a third party?

A defamatory statement is, by definition, one that is false. "defamatory falsehood" is redundant.

Go back to torts class!

:tongue:

Sure, ask a lawyer to prove otherwise. ;)



Diligent citizen, how is a diligent citizen not also an ignorant civilian? You haven't shown me how they aren't one and the same.



She showed her grossly inconsistent and rudimentary grasp of the law when she expressed that she thought her innocence alone would be a sufficient defense.

Oh, dear God. This IS a legal procedure. They aren't illegally trying her in a witch hunt for cheating on her wife. There is STRONG evidence that the man was badgered to release her brother-in-law prior to his dismissal. There is plenty of evidence for a trial and, by her suggestion, they're holding one, where she is being tried by a group of people that better strongly favor her (if Republicans don't like Palin, this entire argument is moot).

I'm sure it's coincidence that it wasn't until she was running for a promotion that she suddenly decided the process was too biased.

You know, that part would be funnier if I'd kept Neo Art's IM window open. I could really make a case (haha) of having done so in advance.

You silly lawyers and your "studying." We in Physics have yet to hear of such a thing (not true, as it happens, but not the point).

Laurence H. Tribe once wrote an interesting piece on "The Curvature of Constitutional Space: What Lawyers Can Learn From Modern Physics".

He then shot eleven people while screaming "You can't flee, speed and velocity are not the same thing!!!!!!!!!!"

That's not true, I just made that up....

There are two things that Harvard Law taught me:

1) how to cite correctly

2) how to raise attention to the fact that I went to Harvard Law, even when grossly socially awkward to do so.

As a racially aware white person, I would only attend Yale, or failing that, a lousy state school barely within the 2nd tier of rankings.

a lousy state school barely within the 2nd tier of rankings.

Brown?

Sure, ask a lawyer to prove otherwise. ;)

Some lawyers, while certainly mindful of the value of professional council, would remind a client, or anyone, that being a civilian is not an excuse of ignorance of the law. Ignorance is not generally an excuse, with or without council.


Diligent citizen, how is a diligent citizen not also an ignorant civilian? You haven't shown me how they aren't one and the same.

To be ignorant is to be without knowledge, a priori. A civilian need not be so. Formal education in an ABA approved Juris Doctorate program is not the only path away from ignorance, and so long as one does not posture oneself as an attorney nor give advice as one, there are many ways to govern one's own life with knowledge of the law gained without immersion in academia.

A person entering public service might even have it expected of them...


She showed her grossly inconsistent and rudimentary grasp of the law when she expressed that she thought her innocence alone would be a sufficient defense.

Which is why her participation in executing the law, for example as the second highest ranked executive in the US goverment, might be one of those pants-shitting propositions.

A defamatory statement is, by definition, one that is false. "defamatory falsehood" is redundant.

Go back to torts class!

:tongue:

It was added for emphasis, not to satisfy prima facie criteria...uh...and in England, it doesn't have to be false...and, um, I meant to write "damned falsehood" but I mispelled the first word...and, um...I haven't had torts yet...


Its not my fault. Since I'm not admitted to the bar yet, I'm an ignorant civilian, apparently.

Brown?

OOOOOOOHHHHH, buuurn! :)

I can see Alaska from my house.



[not really, I live near the Urals.]

Hey Hammurab, check your TGs.

I can see Alaska from my house.



[not really, I live near the Urals.]

Shame, it would have been so much cooler if you could.

Hey Hammurab, check your TGs.

Back atcha, counselor :)

But, please explain what changed in September to make an investigation that Palin publicly invited and said she would cooperate with into a jurisdictionless partisan witch-hunt.

The Obama campaign sent people back in time to make it all partisan and stuff.

She has new council now, a reasonable explanation to understanding her change of legal defense strategy/position.

And her new council told her that it was all about a partisan witch-hunt?

Odds are McCain's lawyers are in control of the legal activities now, not Palin,

But even McCain said she was going to cooperate. Were his lawyers not advising him?

And why would McCain's lawyers automatically be better than Palin's? She was, after all, governor.

whereas before, ignorant civilians often assume their innocence will defend them in court and they have nothing to worry about, in error. Which wise person should represent themselves against the council of their lawyers?

Ah, poor ignorant civilian.

Of course, if she's so ignorant of the law, do we really want her in the vice presidency?

Of course, if she's so ignorant of the law, do we really want her in the vice presidency?



She'll apoint strick constructionist judges who will adhere to the literal definition of the constitution and not legislate from the bench.

Which, since Baldy said:

She showed her grossly inconsistent and rudimentary grasp of the law
she probably doesnt even know what the above statement means or how foolish it is.


Its funny that she apperantly knows so little about law but is qualified to tell us how unconstitutional Roe v Wade is.


:rolleyes:

Some lawyers, while certainly mindful of the value of professional council, would remind a client, or anyone, that being a civilian is not an excuse of ignorance of the law. Ignorance is not generally an excuse, with or without council.

Schoolmarm hits you with her pointer! (http://worknotes.com/images/SchoolMarm.jpg)

COUNCIL: a group of people who collectively give advice or make decisions

COUNSEL: an advisor, particularly a lawyer giving legal advice and representation

Schoolmarm hits you with her pointer! (http://worknotes.com/images/SchoolMarm.jpg)

COUNCIL: a group of people who collectively give advice or make decisions

COUNSEL: an advisor, particularly a lawyer giving legal advice and representation

Maybe his counsel is a council. Ever think of that?

She has new council now, a reasonable explanation to understanding her change of legal defense strategy/position. Odds are McCain's lawyers are in control of the legal activities now, not Palin, whereas before, ignorant civilians often assume their innocence will defend them in court and they have nothing to worry about, in error. Which wise person should represent themselves against the council of their lawyers?

Thanks for confirming that nothing changed to make the investigations of Palin improper or partisan, but rather this is merely a change of tactics by the McCain/Palin campaign.

Oh nonsense. Good legal council is never a bad idea, you disagree?

Rollin', rollin', rollin'
Keep those goalposts moving ....

Of course good legal counsel is not a bad idea. But the McCain/Palin campaign is following a strategy of delay and obstruction and that is different from a defense on the merits.

And some of us would prefer a Vice-President that doesn't need good legal counsel in order to avoid legal charges.

She showed her grossly inconsistent and rudimentary grasp of the law when she expressed that she thought her innocence alone would be a sufficient defense.

It's nice to see you admit that Palin has a grossly inconsistent and rudimentary grasp of the law -- as if her recent interview with Katie Couric didn't make that clear enough. :D

Schoolmarm hits you with her pointer! (http://worknotes.com/images/SchoolMarm.jpg)

COUNCIL: a group of people who collectively give advice or make decisions

COUNSEL: an advisor, particularly a lawyer giving legal advice and representation

Doh! And then I copied it. LOL

Diligent citizen, how is a diligent citizen not also an ignorant civilian? You haven't shown me how they aren't one and the same.


Lots of people have reasonable (or better) knowledge of fields of endeavour quite outside of their jobs. The choices are not, automatically, ignorant or licensed.

The fact that Palin is so entirely clueless is not because she's a civilian, it's because she's ignorant - they aren't intrinsically inclusive of one another.

Schoolmarm hits you with her pointer! (http://worknotes.com/images/SchoolMarm.jpg)

COUNCIL: a group of people who collectively give advice or make decisions

COUNSEL: an advisor, particularly a lawyer giving legal advice and representation also, the advice given.

Schoolmarm's pointer rebounds and strikes the schoolmarm!

Schoolmarm's pointer rebounds and strikes the schoolmarm!
Touche' :hail:

And her new council told her that it was all about a partisan witch-hunt?

She'd be the expert on witch hunts wouldn't she, being friends with that witch hunting Kenyan pastor and all.

Schoolmarm hits you with her pointer! (http://worknotes.com/images/SchoolMarm.jpg)

COUNCIL: a group of people who collectively give advice or make decisions

COUNSEL: an advisor, particularly a lawyer giving legal advice and representation

OW! Thank you, marm, may I have another?

OW! Thank you, marm, may I have another?

YOU'VE HAD ENOUGH!




MY turn. :D

I've been thinking about this, and I'm pretty sure that the Democrats' campaign strategy from now until November should center on getting Sarah Palin on camera as often as possible, by any means necessary. McCain picked her to get publicity, so by all means, let's give 'em the publicity.

YOU'VE HAD ENOUGH!




MY turn. :D

Otherwise known as the Tijuana mating call :)

Otherwise known as the Tijuana mating call :)

Muy bueno!

Every election cycle there's always the 'who is going to piss off a musician by appropriating their song' competition, which I thought Huckabee had taken, but it appears McCain/Palin jumped in-
http://www.cbsundstrom.com/fuckyoujohnmccain.jpg
I had never looked at the lyrics...
So this aint the end -
I saw you again today
I had to turn my heart away
Smiled like the sun -
Kisses for real
And tales - it never fails!

You lying so low in the weeds
I bet you gonna ambush me
Youd have me down down down down on my knees
Now wouldnt you, barracuda?

Back over time we were all
Trying for free
You met the porpoise and me
No right no wrong, selling a song-
A name, whisper game.

If the real thing dont do the trick
You better make up something quick
You gonna burn burn burn burn it to the wick
Ooooooh, barracuda?

Sell me sell you the porpoise said
Dive down deep down to save my head
You...i think you got the blues too.

All that night and all the next
Swam without looking back
Made for the western pools - silly fools!

If the real thing dont do the trick
No, you better make up something quick
You gonna burn burn burn burn it to the wick
Ooooooohhhh, barra barracuda.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh.
Kinda 'Octopus's Garden' now that I look at it...

Why they would want to call her a Barracuda...these (http://books.google.com/books?id=5GpLcC4a5fAC&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=barracuda+slang&source=web&ots=2xfPWagdDa&sig=yDfdSzY6Y--l8ib-34IAmqBOEcI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result) are they going for? Violent aggressive criminal? Sexual enthusiast?

Or dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/barracuda)'s definition, "2. Slang. a treacherous, greedy person."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/palin.trooper.investigation/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

Not sure if this was mentioned, but Anchorage Superior Court ruled the subpoenas were issued validly and denied the Palin Administration's request to shut down the investigation.

Perhaps TCT or Neo Art can answer this for me, but why can Todd Palin et. al. just simply refuse to acknowledge a subpoena? I'll admit my knowledge of the law is a bit lacking, but I'm under the distinct impression that if I refused to comply with a subpoena because I didn't recognize the court's jurisdiction, that I would face a lot stiffer a penalty than negative media coverage. Why are they allowed to just say no to the subpoena?

Indeed, the literal translation of "sub poena" would imply that there's a penalty for noncompliance. Or is that one of those formal phrases that doesn't actually mean anything?

Every election cycle there's always the 'who is going to piss off a musician by appropriating their song' competition, which I thought Huckabee had taken, but it appears McCain/Palin jumped in-
Great image. Pity it's a spoof (http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/barracuda.asp).

Okey dokey.... You came out with a poll that was ten days old and say its as new as we have to we can assume that things haven't changed much since then, so I mention that McCain was leading Obama ten days ago and we both know that he is not today. Thus, I proved your premise wrong, so yes, I think I do know how these things work, too bad it's too much for you though apparently.
bad news for you Baldy:
Voter opinion of Palin declining
Just 25 per cent of likely voters think Palin has the right experience to be president, according to an Associated Press-Gfk poll released Wednesday. That number is down from 41 per cent who expressed confidence in the first-term Alaska governor following her appearance at the GOP convention last month.

Republicans increasingly wary
The poll indicated even Republican-leaning voters were increasingly suspicious of her abilities, with 47 per cent saying she has the right experience to be president, down from 75 per cent in the earlier survey.

A similar poll, conducted by the Pew Research Centre, also found support for Palin was slipping.

Of the 1,505 Americans surveyed, 63 per cent said Biden was qualified to serve as president if necessary, while 37 per cent said the same of Palin.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/usvotes/story/2008/10/01/usvp-debate.html

Oh let me guess - these polls don't count because they're too recent?

One thing I notice: If 47% of Republicans support her, but only 25% overall that would mean (voter pop breakdown: 35% Repub, 35% Dem, 30% Indep.) just 8.5% support from the rest of the voting population! 8.5% out of 65% of the pop = just 13.1% support.
Let's be very generous and say 5.0 of that 8.5% comes from Indepedent voters, the other 3.5% from Dems; this means just 10% of Democrats view her favourably (bad enough, but somewhat understandable as she is on the opposing ticket) and just 17% of Independent voters. Just 1 in 6 Indies think favourably of her!
Considering elections are won or lost on the whims of the Indies, this must be extremely worringly for the McCain camp.

sorry, I can't help it: :tongue:

Every election cycle there's always the 'who is going to piss off a musician by appropriating their song' competition, which I thought Huckabee had taken, but it appears McCain/Palin jumped in-
http://www.cbsundstrom.com/fuckyoujohnmccain.jpg
I had never looked at the lyrics...

Kinda 'Octopus's Garden' now that I look at it...

Why they would want to call her a Barracuda...these (http://books.google.com/books?id=5GpLcC4a5fAC&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=barracuda+slang&source=web&ots=2xfPWagdDa&sig=yDfdSzY6Y--l8ib-34IAmqBOEcI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result) are they going for? Violent aggressive criminal? Sexual enthusiast?

Or dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/barracuda)'s definition, "2. Slang. a treacherous, greedy person."



How very immature of them. Jeez.:rolleyes:

Every election cycle there's always the 'who is going to piss off a musician by appropriating their song' competition, which I thought Huckabee had taken, but it appears McCain/Palin jumped in-
http://www.cbsundstrom.com/fuckyoujohnmccain.jpg


Laughed.

My.

Balls.

Off.

How very immature of them. Jeez.:rolleyes:

Still mroe mature than using a song even though the artist told them not too.

The lawyers are asking for a ruling about the proper jurisdiction. You can't wait?

How would you feel if middle management decided to start acting like Human Resources and skip the proper investigation and methodology to question employees actions?

Okey, dokey. The lawsuits got tossed out. (http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/544566.html) The judge ruled against the worshippers of St. Palin's attempts to block a legal investigation.

So, what is your fallback position, Baldy?

Okey, dokey. The lawsuits got tossed out. (http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/544566.html) The judge ruled against the worshippers of St. Palin's attempts to block a legal investigation.

So, what is your fallback position, Baldy?
you have to love a judge how isnt impressed with the machinations of big city lawyers!

Great image. Pity it's a spoof (http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/barracuda.asp).

Well...that's what I get for not checking.

Found this after reading the ADN Troopergate story. How delightful that the woman who battled witches is being controlled by the Dark Side of witchcraft.

Palin co-opted into a Voldemort world (http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/543289.html)

Lots of meat in the full article, but I liked this passage
As an admirer of Gov. Palin's bipartisan success on oil tax legislation, AGIA, and ethics reform, I have been stunned by her transformation into a polarizing, negative partisan by McCain campaign. As I watch her performance on the national stage I feel a mixture of embarrassment for her and anger that she allowed herself, and our great state, to be used like this. While Sarah Palin may have received prayerful protection in her church from a witch doctor-battling missionary, she is clearly not protected against the Voldemort-like forces now controlling the John McCain campaign.

Found this after reading the ADN Troopergate story. How delightful that the woman who battled witches is being controlled by the Dark Side of witchcraft.

Palin co-opted into a Voldemort world (http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/543289.html)

Lots of meat in the full article, but I liked this passage

Very interesting.

Although given her partisan track record in Wasilla, I'm not sure I buy the innocence corrupted angle. I would buy that the McCain campaign brings out some of the worst in Palin.

Found this after reading the ADN Troopergate story. How delightful that the woman who battled witches is being controlled by the Dark Side of witchcraft.

Palin co-opted into a Voldemort world (http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/543289.html)

Lots of meat in the full article, but I liked this passage
witch doctors have no influence over the force. not that such a low level practioner could ever ward off the effects of the republican handlers.

mores the pity.