NationStates Jolt Archive

What do you think of them? I for one think they're murderous bastards, but I support Northern Ireland (Scotland, Wales and England too, for that matter) sovereignty. Not unification with Eire, not part of the U.K., but a sovereign nation.

Hey, awesome!

I may participate at greater length later, but I remember when it was pretty common for the older folks to send money overseas to 'support the boys'.

Weird to think about it now.

I remember when it was pretty common for the older folks to send money overseas to 'support the boys'.

Are these the sort of people who'd shoot you for supporting Al-Qaeda?

Weird to think about it now.

They still exist.

Are these the sort of people who'd shoot you for supporting Al-Qaeda?Exactly.



They still exist.But it's much less commonplace and acceptable.

God bless the IRA.

Killing is not the route to take, but I've always been distrustful of Unionism, and although I'm British and Northern Irish, I would prefer to see a united Ireland just to see the Ulster-Scots take the hit. I'm petty and simple like that. :D

God bless the IRA.

Clarify.

I support the idea of a unified Ireland. I do not support the idea of killing innocents.

Additionally, whenever I am in need of a few RPG's or crates of assault rifles and homemade plastic explosives, I generally find that 'the boys' offer the best deals, and they've never been late with their shipments. Trying to deal with Russians is always too difficult, and I don't trust anybody else in the transport business. Plus, they'll bring me whiskey on the big orders. Nothing better than sitting around getting drunk while prepping my guns. Safest and most efficient way to work.

Additionally, whenever I am in need of a few RPG's or crates of assault rifles and homemade plastic explosives, I generally find that 'the boys' offer the best deals, and they've never been late with their shipments. Trying to deal with Russians is always too difficult, and I don't trust anybody else in the transport business. Plus, they'll bring me whiskey on the big orders. Nothing better than sitting around getting drunk while prepping my guns. Safest and most efficient way to work.

Lol.

I am going to go with murderous bastards. But the other side has committed their share of crimes.

Yeah.

i support james connolly and the citizen's army... the provo always were a poor substitute

Clarify.

That God Almighty should bless the IRA. Is that so complicated.

That God Almighty should bless the IRA. Is that so complicated.

Should bless them for killing literally thousands of people? For making people's lives a living Hell? For killing children?

Should bless them for killing literally thousands of people? For making people's lives a living Hell? For killing children?

what are we talking about again ??? The British during their rule on Ireland ?
Wars and occupation seem to be messy affairs. I still Stand by God bless the IRA. And I dare say the IRA's hands are more clean then any actually ruling Monarch of Britain. So lets make a deal your country stop saying God bless the Queen and I will stop saying God bless the IRA.

I don't like the IRA, and I never have. I want to see the murderers and criminals behind bars and serve time for their crimes.

I have no strong feelings towards the status of Northern Ireland one way or the other. If it was up to me I'd let them vote on it and be done with it. But that would not realistically put an end to the problems...

I just want to see them resolve the problems peacefully.

what are we talking about again ??? The British during their rule on Ireland ?
Wars and occupation seem to be messy affairs. I still Stand by God bless the IRA. And I dare say the IRA's hands are more clean then any actually ruling Monarch of Britain. So lets make a deal your country stop saying God bless the Queen and I will stop saying God bless the IRA.

So you wish current murderers well because of the actions of former tyrants.

Illogical, but have at it.

The IRA are a bunch of murdering terrorists, simple as that. Killing innocents is never acceptable no matter what the purpose (which i dont agree with anyway, i fully the support the union).

So you wish current murderers well because of the actions of former tyrants.

Illogical, but have at it.

i think he includes liz 2 in the list of murderous tyrants

i think he includes liz 2 in the list of murderous tyrants

Which is itself is ridiculous, like the queen has any say in the actions of the UK army.

Which is itself is ridiculous, like the queen has any say in the actions of the UK army. the fact that she doesn't have a say may well not protect her from a degree of responsibility for the actions undertaken in her name.

the fact that she doesn't have a say may well not protect her from a degree of responsibility for the actions undertaken in her name.

A degree perhaps, to suggest that shes fully responsible for acts committed by the army is northern ireland would be rather foolish which was what i thought the ealier poster was suggesting.

God bless the IRA.

Way too simplistic. Try "God Bless Those Who Kill In Name Of Religion Or Ideology" for size.

Okay, I am irish and I believe in a unified Ireland.

However, the IRA are a bunch of murderous scumbags. The IRA's hands are not clean. They are murderers and gun runners.

In my opinion no one has damaged the case for a united Ireland more than the IRA. There is no way in hell that the British Government would even enter talks with terrorists. If they had used political and peaceful means there would have been a much better chance. Certainly in terms of the Catholic majority counties.

Also as a Catholic I find their use of their religion as an excuse to kill highly offensive as I find their use of the Irish Flag and how the use of the term nationalist now equates to Sinn Féinner of RA-boy. I am a nationalist but I believe that the IRA are a disgrace to my country.

I like apples, pears, oranges and tangerines. I don't like the IRA.

Oh, and as far as the Ulster/Northern Ireland stuff is concerned, I'm not moved in either direction. My ancestors are north-central European. Our connections to this matter, unlike many Irish-American families, are nil. I figure let the locals decide.

Greed and Death is clearly a crank. I suggest you stop dignifying his/her rantings with replies. The British army was not in the habit of mindlessly targetting civillians. Admittedly, some bad apples caused outrages like Bloody Sunday, but the general policy was only to terminate terrorists. The IRA made no differntiation between British Forces and Innocent civillians in their misguided war. At the end of the day. Did it brink Ireland any closer to unification? The simple answer is no.

The British army was not in the habit of mindlessly targetting civillians. Admittedly, some bad apples caused outrages like Bloody Sunday, but the general policy was only to terminate terrorists. The IRA systematically targetted the innocent as part of their campaign.

Exactly. Bloody sunday was essentially a tragic mistake, the IRA bombings were murder.

Should bless them for killing literally thousands of people? For making people's lives a living Hell? For killing children?

Well, hes done it for everybody else.....


I don't like the IRA, and I never have. I want to see the murderers and criminals behind bars and serve time for their crimes.

Ha. Don't hould yer breath. All have been released under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement.

They say that Mandela fellah has a dodgy past too........


The IRA's hands are not clean. They are murderers and gun runners.

Shockin.

Tell me, you know that Irish Navy training vessel that sunk there the other week, the Asgard II.....What was the history behind the ship it was named after, the "Asgard".....


Also as a Catholic I find their use of their religion as an excuse to kill highly offensive

emmm....When did that happen....?

Exactly. Bloody sunday was essentially a tragic mistake, the IRA bombings were murder.

Neither is justifiable, sorry.

Exactly. Bloody sunday was essentially a tragic mistake,

And the Dublin Monaghan bombings were a boyish jape.....

Neither is justifiable, sorry.

I'm not saying Bloody Sunday was justified, I'm simply saying that the British army's objective was not to kill as many irish people as needed until the problem was solved, the IRA'S objective was murder until we get what we want, which is dispicable.

And the Dublin Monaghan bombings were a boyish jape.....

That was also terrorist action, terrorist action that was not the fault of the British.

That was also terrorist action, terrorist action that was not the fault of the British.

Yeah, one day the loyalists have no serious bomb making capability, the next they do, then they don't again....

No one has ever been charged with the attacks, which have been described by the Oireachtas Committee on Justice as an act of international terrorism colluded in by British Security Forces
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0517/monaghan.html

There is no evidence that the British Authorities were involved, individual members of the security forces perhaps, but no planned actions by the British Government.

There is no evidence that the British Authorities were involved, individual members of the security forces perhaps, but no planned actions by the British Government.

Bit odd they barely co-operated with the recent investigations then so, isn't it.....

Not unification with Eire, not part of the U.K., but a sovereign nation.
All due respect to you, but that's crazy. Northern Ireland as a sovereign nation would collapse under its own inertia. Letting it do that might teach its leaders a little humility, but such an experiment would not be in the interests of the average citizen.

Ha. Don't hould yer breath. All have been released under the terms of the Good Friday Agreement.

They say that Mandela fellah has a dodgy past too.......

I'm not under any illusions that it will happen. But one can dream... *Sigh*

If anything, I'm happy there's an agreement in place now - no thanks to the IRA - that seems to be holding, and the level of provocation on both sides seem to be low. Gives me hope that the same might happen in other places too.

If anything, I'm happy there's an agreement in place now - no thanks to the IRA - that seems to be holding,

You seem to be a bit confused. The agreement was reached with the IRA, amongst others.....Thats how the prisoners got out.....

It's important in this discussion to remember that "the Union" is not the only issue. Catholics in Nireland got fucked over.

How much actual interest in the Ulsters are there in leaving the United Kingdom and rejoining the rest of Ireland?

How much actual interest in the Ulsters are there in leaving the United Kingdom and rejoining the rest of Ireland?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/67/Northern_Ireland_Poll.png/350px-Northern_Ireland_Poll.png
You're welcome.:p

It's important in this discussion to remember that "the Union" is not the only issue. Catholics in Nireland got fucked over.

That was pointed out by moi in the thread this split off from. One could say were they not so fucked over, they'd be no more subversive than the Scotch or Welsh nationalists.

[IMG]
You're welcome.:p

I'd say the "Other Answers" were hillarious....

None of the above. I have no dog in the Northern Ireland fight. But I "care" to the point of opposing the killing of innocent people.

That was pointed out by moi in the thread this split off from. One could say were they not so fucked over, they'd be no more subversive than the Scotch or Welsh nationalists.
Unfortunately, we were well and truly bent on fucking Ireland over right until the Liberals needed Home Rule votes to stay in office. After that, we just let the Ulster Unionists do it instead. In my unenlightened opinion, anyway.

Okay, I am irish and I believe in a unified Ireland.

However, the IRA are a bunch of murderous scumbags. The IRA's hands are not clean. They are gun runners.

Don't forget the smuggled whiskey! If it weren't for them handling both of these for me, I don't know how I'd be able to operate a seedy mercenary company. Guns to shoot with, whiskey to forget everything afterwords. Really, they do run a decent all-your-mercenary-needs-supplier business to fund themselves. And unlike the Russians, I understand their words.

You seem to be a bit confused. The agreement was reached with the IRA, amongst others.....Thats how the prisoners got out.....

Oh no, I know. I just see no reason to thank the IRA for putting an end to the violence.

And although I would personally see the murderers behind bars, the deal made stopped the violence. And that leads us back to the old question of whether one wants to see peace or justice done.

Fuck the IRA, hurrah that shit's all over.

Northern Ireland should be its own state, seeing as the Irish don't want it, and we really have very little right to be there.

Which out of the many IRAs are we talking about? Or all of them.

As a rule of thumb, if they killed innocent people then I'm not a fan.

What do you think of them? I for one think they're murderous bastards, but I support Northern Ireland (Scotland, Wales and England too, for that matter) sovereignty. Not unification with Eire, not part of the U.K., but a sovereign nation.

Perhaps if parliament had supported Gladtsone's home rule bill, a lot of "the troubles" may have been averted. I think that it has to be for the Irish to decide their fate (London was doing far too much decideing for too long (Elizabeth 1, Cromwell, William of Orange).
Ulstermen and the IRA seem to be working together more now. I was in Belfast last September and it seemed all right. My only qualm was when my partner and I had strayed into the Catholic area and I felt these funny looks. My partner and I happened to be wearing red which, I guess, Belfast Catholics don't wear because it's the colur of the red hand and of "England's cruel red." When I realised the faux pas we'd made we scurried back to the "proddy parts" - not that we are! We're both non-religious Aussies who find it ridiculous that people can take religion so seriously as to want to kill each other for it. (Kind of mocks Christ's teachings, one would think)
But back to the topic. You can't hate the IRA or the Ulster Defence Force - well you can but you shouldn't. Sectarianism thrives on hate (Remember how gleeful the Emperor got when Luke Skywalker started to get negative feelings and became susceptible to the "dark force".
Reason and common interests were the key to a Northern Ireland settlement - and joining ther EU.

You can't hate the IRA or the Ulster Defence Force - well you can but you shouldn't. Sectarianism thrives on hate.
Quite. On the other hand, hating them both is a perfectly valid opinion.

Bloody sunday was essentially a tragic mistake,

Maybe Bloody Sunday was 'a tragic mistake', (which i don't believe,) but the Widgery tribunal was nothing short of a cover-up and a case of laying the blame with the victim. Had the British government admitted culpability in the shooting, the IRA would never have gotten the support it got after Bloody Sunday.

Most people ignore the fact that the UDA and Loyalist gangs first started sectarian killings of non-combatant civilians. Of course, the militant Republican groups should be critizised for doing their share of that in response.

Nevertheless, I notice that most of the hate from outsiders regarding the NI conflict tends to be directed towards the IRA. I think that is a reflection of inborn anti-catholic or anti-irish feelings, mixed with anger at seeing a long-dominated minority stand up and punch their bully in the nose.

Most people ignore the fact that the UDA and Loyalist gangs first started sectarian killings of non-combatant civilians. Of course, the militant Republican groups should be critizised for doing their share of that in response.
Quite.
Nevertheless, I notice that most of the hate from outsiders regarding the NI conflict tends to be directed towards the IRA. I think that is a reflection of inborn anti-catholic or anti-irish feelings, mixed with anger at seeing a long-dominated minority stand up and punch their bully in the nose.
Eh, obviously you are ignoring the vast amount of Americans who have some kind of loyalty to Ireland based upon some kind of misplaced nostalgia for their 'traditional homeland'. Blech.

Running guns to terrorsts - not cool. Doesn't matter if it's the UDA, IRA, Taleban or whoever, these people shot at non-combatants, and this is Not A Good Thing.

The idea of a united Ireland = cool, I like.

Killing innocent people = not cool. I do not like.

I suspect there will be many posts similar.

Speaking as an American of largely Irish descent, I am utterly disgusted by the modern incarnation of the IRA. Any organization that deliberately targets civilians is a terrorist one and deserves complete, unreserved contempt. Besides that, I've always strongly subscribed to the idea of self-determination and according to the data that I've seen, the majority of the Northern Irish population vastly prefer being a constituent of the United Kingdom.

See Here (http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2007/Political_Attitudes/NIRELND2.html)

Oh no, I know. I just see no reason to thank the IRA for putting an end to the violence.

And although I would personally see the murderers behind bars, the deal made stopped the violence. And that leads us back to the old question of whether one wants to see peace or justice done.

Well, that presumes that it was unjust/wrong to attack Crown forces...Whereas reprisal attacks against civillians and targeting of same for any reason can be called a crime (and I wouldn't argue it wasn't), theres no way in hell anyone is going to agree to that. Had the forces of the state acted in an even handed manner, and dismantled the sectarian apparatus in more forthright and timely manner, it would have been different. However for a long period they essentially became part of the problem.

Of course if you're a pacifist, you're not going to see it that way regardless of the justification given, which is fair enough.

I think the IRA were needed at the time when there were no rights for the catholic citizens.
The Brits have as much blood on their hands as any volunteer does.

I think the IRA were needed at the time when there were no rights for the catholic citizens.
The Brits have as much blood on their hands as any volunteer does.
Two wrongs make a right now, do they?

Two wrongs make a right now, do they?

...rather presumes that they were wrong, doesn't it?

Had the events outlined here not happened, you might never have heard of them...However given the use of the arms of the state to crush dissent, its hardly suprising that the croppies refused to lie down and took up arms themselves...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Civil_Rights_Association

what i'm in favor of is every village, tribe and ethnicity choosing its own form of government and exercising its inheirent right to soverignty.

what i'm not in favor of, is anyone killing anyone else in order to do so.

(the "right" made by two wrongs is generally called "conservative" politics, and yes, it is very much a wrong 'right')

...rather presumes that they were wrong, doesn't it?

Had the events outlined here not happened, you might never have heard of them...However given the use of the arms of the state to crush dissent, its hardly suprising that the croppies refused to lie down and took up arms themselves...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Civil_Rights_Association

By killing unarmed civilians themselves? If the state seeks to repress dissent through the use of force it may be justified to use force against the state in retaliation, but it is pretty screwed up to suggest that murdering civilians for sympathising with the state counts as resistance.

By killing unarmed civilians themselves? If the state seeks to repress dissent through the use of force it may be justified to use force against the state in retaliation, but it is pretty screwed up to suggest that murdering civilians for sympathising with the state counts as resistance.

I never stated that targeting civillians was acceptable. However targeting crown forces is another matter entirely.

The Irish Republican Army was an army of resistance against a foul, overseas occupation by a bunch of murdering bastards. They fought a war, made a peace, and won their freedom.

The Provisional IRA, on the other hand, was just a bunch of murdering bastards.

The Irish Republican Army was an army of resistance against a foul, overseas occupation by a bunch of murdering bastards. They fought a war, made a peace, and won their freedom.


Actually, they didn't win their freedom.

Actually, they didn't win their freedom.

Well they fought hard enough that both sides went to the negotiating table and resolved the issue. That's pretty much as good as you can ever expect to get.

The idea of a united Ireland = cool, I like.

Yes, because what Ireland really needs now is unionists making up 20% of the Dáil. That'd work nicely.

Truth be told, it doesn't really matter very much anymore, since we're all European citizens now.

Yes, because what Ireland really needs now is unionists making up 20% of the Dáil. That'd work nicely.


It'd put Fine Gael out of a job for starters....

The IRA are murderers and I hate them. Its fine fighting the occupiers, which yes, was us British. But, At the time, all of Ireland was ours by conquest. This is when the fighting was acceptable, as it was targeted against occupying British Troops. AFTER the negoiations, and Ireland was split, resulting in those Irish that wanted to stay with us got the North, which is fair, and how it stayed. There was no reason for the IRA to target the Northern Irish, this is where the targeting of the British troops and police posted there, the Northern Irish civilians or the English civilians in London and other cites became unacceptable. Both my parents were bombed by the IRA at some point, Mum, in the public house on the corner of the Woolwich Army base. Dad, when they tried to do in the M6 Bridges.

The IRA should of accepted the fact that the north was going to stay as UK territory and left it at that. What did confuse me about the IRA, is the religious violence between Anglicans (Protestants) and Catholicism. They are both Christians ffs. All that resulted in was British troops having to police the north for even longer.

A waste of 100 years for both sides, espc the last 30. Pointless violence over a situation resolved. What did they get. Nothing, the North is still British. Both religious groups still live there. All sides have blood on their hands. Pointless much?

Btw, The IRA's American funding, thanks guys, why don't we get our own back and fund some gun slinging anti American terrorists?

The Irish Republican Army was an army of resistance against a foul, overseas occupation by a bunch of murdering bastards.
You're rather tarring the whole of the occupying force with the same brush there. The fact that they didn't kill off vast amounts of non-combatants shows that they had vast amounts of restraint.
They fought a war, made a peace, and won their freedom.
No, it didn't.

What won Ireland freedom was its acceptance into the EU, at which point everybody's actual rights and freedoms vary relatively little from state to state. The fact that the UK was, by virtue of its also being in the EU, going to have free access to Irish markets made it into a very dragged-out and somewhat bloody argument over who would get the last word in.
The Provisional IRA, on the other hand, was just a bunch of murdering bastards.
The Provos were gangsters, aye.

Scum.

At this point in time, I think they're as pointless and outdated an institution as you could hope to find.
Ireland and the UK have a slightly (not even significantly) different legal system and a different currency, and that's about it really. Within the EU, anybody can live anywhere they choose, receive benefits wherever they live, etc. The limits formerly imposed by the nation states don't exist any more. So declaring Northern Ireland an indepent country or even merging it with the Republic would be a mere fomality, nothing more.

I'm quite grateful the IRA seem to have understood that.

What won Ireland freedom was its acceptance into the EU, at which point everybody's actual rights and freedoms vary relatively little from state to state. The fact that the UK was, by virtue of its also being in the EU, going to have free access to Irish markets made it into a very dragged-out and somewhat bloody argument over who would get the last word in.

The Provos were gangsters, aye.

Er... not quite. Ireland had been an indipendent nation state for a good few decades before the EU came along.
The EU certainly made the IRA look rather pointless in the end.

Nevertheless, I notice that most of the hate from outsiders regarding the NI conflict tends to be directed towards the IRA. I think that is a reflection of inborn anti-catholic or anti-irish feelings, mixed with anger at seeing a long-dominated minority stand up and punch their bully in the nose.

No, the reason why the IRA generate so much hatred from most Brits is because, unlike the loyalist organisations, they targeted the mainland. They planted bombs in Birmingham and London (among others) and took the fight outside of Northern Ireland. To be honest, if they had stuck to targeting Ulster Protestants, I doubt there would be even a fraction of the hatred against them. It's amazing what the feeling that you, personally, are under attack will do to people's opinions.

I think the IRA were needed at the time when there were no rights for the catholic citizens.
The Brits have as much blood on their hands as any volunteer does.

Interestingly the British mainland intervention is what gave the NIrish Catholics back a lot of their rights, it was the Protestant dominated devolved NIrish government that restricted the catholics rights just after the split of Ireland. Yes, that was partly the British governments fault for how it was set up, but I do not believe it was their intention.

The IRA are (.......)terrorists?

As I've pointed out before, were it not for the following kind of thing, they'd probably have been the equivalent of Plaid Cymru....

Northern Ireland, Mexico, Liberia and Sweden are alone in the democratic world in having spent more than half the 20th century under one-party rule. The influence of the Orange Order in the governance of Northern Ireland was far-reaching. All of the six prime ministers of Northern Ireland were members of the Order, as were all but three cabinet ministers until 1969. Three of the ministers later left the Order, one because his daughter married a Catholic, one to become Minister of Community Relations in 1970, and the third was expelled for attending a Catholic religious ceremony. Of the 95 Stormont MPs who did not become cabinet ministers, 87 were Orangemen. Every unionist senator, with one exception, between 1921 and 1969 was an Orangeman. One of these senators, James Gyle, was suspended from the Order for seven years for visiting nationalist MP Joe Devlin on his deathbed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Northern_Ireland


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Civil_Rights_Association

My Individual Retirement Account CTE'd.

Oh, the Irish. Fight for Freedom!

a bunch of Murderous blackguards

Yes, because what Ireland really needs now is unionists making up 20% of the Dáil. That'd work nicely.

Truth be told, it doesn't really matter very much anymore, since we're all European citizens now.

A bit of dissent is good. Keeps the ruling party on its toes.

As I've pointed out before, were it not for the following kind of thing, they'd probably have been the equivalent of Plaid Cymru....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Northern_Ireland


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Civil_Rights_Association

Eh, I'm skeptical, Plaid Cymru didn't have the example of recent successful armed rebellion that the IRA did. Nationalism has never been as strong in Wales as it has been in Ireland (or even Scotland).

But in general I stand by my earlier comment.

I don't think you can sepperate them and what they stand for entirely. You kill people in the name of your cause, and that cause becomes asociated with those atrocities. The ends do not justify the means. Ever.

And regarding their cause, I don't know as much about Irish sepperatism as I wish I did, but it seems to me that once you've been part of a country for a certain amount of time, its usually a needless hassle to leave it unless you really have to. God knows us Canadians have had our share of idiotic nationalist sepperatists to deal with.

No, the reason why the IRA generate so much hatred from most Brits is because, unlike the loyalist organisations, they targeted the mainland.


Remember the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?

What do you think of them? I for one think they're murderous bastards, but I support Northern Ireland (Scotland, Wales and England too, for that matter) sovereignty. Not unification with Eire, not part of the U.K., but a sovereign nation.
NI can barely rule itself now with the help of the Republic and Britain.
I support the idea of a unified Ireland. I do not support the idea of killing innocents.

Additionally, whenever I am in need of a few RPG's or crates of assault rifles and homemade plastic explosives, I generally find that 'the boys' offer the best deals, and they've never been late with their shipments. Trying to deal with Russians is always too difficult, and I don't trust anybody else in the transport business. Plus, they'll bring me whiskey on the big orders. Nothing better than sitting around getting drunk while prepping my guns. Safest and most efficient way to work.
Normally a middle man is something to avoid, but getting Russian weapons from the IRA is much more convenient than getting them from the Russians. Odd.
what are we talking about again ??? The British during their rule on Ireland ?
Wars and occupation seem to be messy affairs. I still Stand by God bless the IRA. And I dare say the IRA's hands are more clean then any actually ruling Monarch of Britain. So lets make a deal your country stop saying God bless the Queen and I will stop saying God bless the IRA.
Did the current Queen ever order the occupation of Ireland? The crimes of her predecessors are not her crimes.
Fuck the IRA, hurrah that shit's all over.

Northern Ireland should be its own state, seeing as the Irish don't want it, and we really have very little right to be there.
Except the Irish kind of do want it, they just don't want to have a war over it.
Speaking as an American of largely Irish descent, I am utterly disgusted by the modern incarnation of the IRA. Any organization that deliberately targets civilians is a terrorist one and deserves complete, unreserved contempt. Besides that, I've always strongly subscribed to the idea of self-determination and according to the data that I've seen, the majority of the Northern Irish population vastly prefer being a constituent of the United Kingdom.

See Here (http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2007/Political_Attitudes/NIRELND2.html)

The modern incarnation of the IRA has voluntarily entered peace talks, ceased all its 'military' actions and destroyed all its weapons.

Which "IRA" is this poll about exactly?

Which "IRA" is this poll about exactly?

Ira Gershwin

The Provisional Ira Gershwin, the Real Ira Gershwin or what?

Except the Irish kind of do want it, they just don't want to have a war over it.


They did a poll in Eire, and most of the Irish don't want Northern Ireland because they'd have to pay more taxes for it.

The Provisional Ira Gershwin, the Real Ira Gershwin or what?

Mainly Provisional, also Real, not Central or Official or any of the others.

Mainly Provisional, also Real, not Central or Official or any of the others.

Wasn't there also the Continuity Ira Gershwin?

Oh fuck that Ira Gershwin.

Wasn't there also the Continuity Ira Gershwin?

Yeah, and the NIRLA, or National Irish Republican Army.

Yes, because what Ireland really needs now is unionists making up 20% of the Dáil. That'd work nicely.

Truth be told, it doesn't really matter very much anymore, since we're all European citizens now.

And the Irish people aren't going to be heard in this matter either.

Though I think the IRA or any other group will have a hard time at reclaiming any Irish sovereignty

Hey don't leave out the UVF in this convo either they were created to counterbalance the IRA...

Remember the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?

Which is why I said Brits... most British people remember the IRA bombings in England (ok, the use of the term 'mainland' is British-centric colloquialism, sorry), since those directly happened to us, and this is probably why most Brits have more hatred towards the IRA rather than specific anti-irish, anti-catholic sentiment.

There is no way in hell that the British Government would even enter talks with terrorists.

But we did. That's how the terrorists are free and some of them are sitting in government.

I think we should have ended the discrimination against catholics far more rapidly. We should have dismantled sectarianisn as soon as we sent the army in. But despite our failings, negotiating with terrorists was a terrible mistake. The IRA were losing strength in the 90s and by going from 'We won't negotiate with terrorists' to 'We will negotiate with terrorists' has done irreperable damage to counter-terrorism in this country. After all, if you were an islamist terrorist (Or one of the other strands of terrorist which will no doubt surface in the future), you wouldn't believe a word the British government says when they say they won't negotiate. We'll probably give into Al Qaeda just like we gave into the IRA. We may have bought short term peace by negotiating with the IRA, but this invitation to terrorists will probably cause more bloodshed in the future.

They did a poll in Eire, and most of the Irish don't want Northern Ireland because they'd have to pay more taxes for it.

There is that, I guess.


Oh, and stop calling it Eire. Nobody calls it Eire.

Oh, and stop calling it Eire. Nobody calls it Eire.

I do. I also require that all guards and government officials deal with me in irish, just to be awkward. Works wonders at the dole office.

I do. I also require that all guards and government officials deal with me in irish, just to be awkward. Works wonders at the dole office.

But......why? And don't gardai have to be able to speak Irish?

But......why? And don't gardai have to be able to speak Irish?

The love of being awkward?

T'was the old joke of scumbags. Apparently, If you ask a Guard to deal with you in Irish, they had to comply. And the theory went that poor old paddy plodder wouldn't be able to, and would back of with all those nasty questions he was asking about that stolen car you'd been joyriding in. Of course, in practice the Guard just delivered the official caution in hundred mile an hour gailge followed by a hundred yard stare which generally convinced little johnny scumbag that he had just made a terrible, terrible mistake.

Which is why I said Brits... most British people remember the IRA bombings in England (ok, the use of the term 'mainland' is British-centric colloquialism, sorry), since those directly happened to us, and this is probably why most Brits have more hatred towards the IRA rather than specific anti-irish, anti-catholic sentiment.

Yeah, but you said unlike the loyalists etc, but the loyalists did bomb places, and mainland is of course British-centric, Because Britain is the biggest island out of the 2. I think everyone understood you when you said mainland.

Too bad there is no "hate them for the terrorist scumfuck they are but could care less about the political issue at hand".

Too bad there is no "hate them for the terrorist scumfuck they are but could care less about the political issue at hand".


Thats covered under the "I have no opinion option". And yes, yes that one is.

I do. I also require that all guards and government officials deal with me in irish, just to be awkward. Works wonders at the dole office.

That's awesome.

Thats covered under the "I have no opinion option". And yes, yes that one is.

But you see I do have an opinion. It constitutes that I don't like the IRA, targeting civilians for the sake of killing them only tends to be very bad in my book. The political issue, I could care less if it goes to the Republic, stays with the UK or goes independent. Whatever the majority there decides, that's their own decision. What I don't like, is the sectarian violence and hatred and, last I knew, Belfast being divided up by fences and walls like its the West Bank.

So please, forgive me if I come off as sensational, but the issue tends to rouse me.

I support the splinter group led by Roth, but the main branch is just terrorism.

There should be a United Ireland, ruled from London.

But seriously, the IRA are scum, and there sympathisers not much better. I believe one of the greatest failings of modern Britain is that we allowed the likes of Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams to gain places in government. Its equivalent to granting Osama Bin laden a peerage or Mugabe a knighthood :rolleyes:

I disagree - put all the cut-throats in parliament where they belong!

There should be a United Ireland, ruled from London.
... why?

The Irish are doing a perfectly fine job of running their own country.
But seriously, the IRA are scum, and there sympathisers not much better. I believe one of the greatest failings of modern Britain is that we allowed the likes of Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams to gain places in government.
Eh no.
Its equivalent to granting Osama Bin laden a peerage or Mugabe a knighthood :rolleyes:
No, no it isn't.

Murderous ****s the lot of them. There's nothing justifible about who they are or what they do.

To give Gerry Adams his due, he did make a peace agreement with the Rev Ian Paisley and Tony Blair that has held up pretty well. If Paisley can accept him, who are we differ?

I support the splinter group led by Roth, but the main branch is just terrorism.

Which splinter group? I think the main branch you're thinking of is the PIRA, which is itself a splinter group.

The love of being awkward?
As good a reason as any :)

T'was the old joke of scumbags. Apparently, If you ask a Guard to deal with you in Irish, they had to comply. And the theory went that poor old paddy plodder wouldn't be able to, and would back of with all those nasty questions he was asking about that stolen car you'd been joyriding in. Of course, in practice the Guard just delivered the official caution in hundred mile an hour gailge followed by a hundred yard stare which generally convinced little johnny scumbag that he had just made a terrible, terrible mistake.
As I understand it one has the right to deal with the government in Irish, at any level of the government, from PJ the country cop pulling you over for doing 900 through a school yard to Big BC.,
There should be a United Ireland, ruled from London.
lulz

But seriously, the IRA are scum, and there sympathisers not much better. I believe one of the greatest failings of modern Britain is that we allowed the likes of Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams to gain places in government. Its equivalent to granting Osama Bin laden a peerage or Mugabe a knighthood :rolleyes:
No, not at all. It'd be more like some American colonists running for Parliament.
To give Gerry Adams his due, he did make a peace agreement with the Rev Ian Paisley and Tony Blair that has held up pretty well. If Paisley can accept him, who are we differ?

Exactly.

There should be a United Ireland, ruled from London.:
Yeah, because that worked so well before....

But seriously, the IRA are scum,.:

The ones that brought the Brits to the table in 1921, or the ones that brought the Brits to the table in 1992...?


and there sympathisers not much better. I believe one of the greatest failings of modern Britain is that we allowed the likes of Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams to gain places in government. Its equivalent to granting Osama Bin laden a peerage or Mugabe a knighthood,.:

Or recognising the free state in the 20's, the Republic in 1948, the State of Israel, America....

I believe one of the greatest failings of modern Britain is that we allowed the likes of Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams to gain places in government.
Yeah, it's such a shame we've now got (as near as damn it) peace in Northern Ireland, isn't it?

To give Gerry Adams his due, he did make a peace agreement with the Rev Ian Paisley and Tony Blair that has held up pretty well. If Paisley can accept him, who are we differ?

To be fair, anyone who can accept the Reverend Ian Paisley should be put up for Sainthood. He actually managed to make the IRA look good in comparison.

Which splinter group? I think the main branch you're thinking of is the PIRA, which is itself a splinter group.

I was talking about the Roth IRA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roth_IRA). It's one group I would give money to, yearly.

There should be a United Ireland, ruled from London.

But seriously, the IRA are scum, and there sympathisers not much better. I believe one of the greatest failings of modern Britain is that we allowed the likes of Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams to gain places in government. Its equivalent to granting Osama Bin laden a peerage or Mugabe a knighthood :rolleyes:
Wait, didn't we do that second one?

Wait, didn't we do that second one?
Yep, but yez took it back.

I think IRA is pretty cool guy. eh bombs people and doesnt afraid of anything.

I think IRA is pretty cool guy. eh bombs people and doesnt afraid of anything.

http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/funny-dog-pictures-cone-lol.jpg

Yeah, because that worked so well before.... Wasn't so bad for us English back in the day


The ones that brought the Brits to the table in 1921, or the ones that brought the Brits to the table in 1992...? The ones who were killing Brits in 1921, or the ones who were killing Brits in 1992


Or recognising the free state in the 20's, the Republic in 1948, the State of Israel, America....
Why the hell should we have recognised the Free State in the 20's, bunch of traitorous Tauges.

The ones who were killing Brits in 1921, or the ones who were killing Brits in 1992

Not forgetting Northern Irish civilians

Why the hell should we have recognised the Free State in the 20's
Because we had no right to be there and they didn't want us there.

Wasn't so bad for us English back in the day
Well, I don't want my taxes being spent keeping four million people under occupation who clearly don't want to be, or to deny their civil liberties and suspend their democratic government (more so than ours in some ways). You'd have to do all of these, and more, for your 'united Ireland ruled from London' imperial wet dream.

The ones who were killing Brits in 1921, or the ones who were killing Brits in 1992
And we killed (or indirectly supported those who killed) Irish people too. Shocker!

Why the hell should we have recognised the Free State in the 20's, bunch of traitorous Tauges.
Because we'd been beaten in the Anglo-Irish War, and it was a compromise both sides could swallow. We got to keep Ireland in the Empire, within a degree of Imperial control (under the British controlled Governor-General) and Ireland got as near as damn it independence and, later on, complete independence.

We lost, get over it. I have.

Wasn't so bad for us English back in the day
Was never actually bad for 'us English'. The IRA didn't kill many people on the mainland, and almost everyone else involved was a soldier of some kind, which makes them fair game.

Also the Irish are actually human beings too, you know... the IRA were pretty murderous, but then so were the UDA and the like which we aided and abbetted.
The ones who were killing Brits in 1921, or the ones who were killing Brits in 1992
You sure that keeping a war which is essentially a "nuh-uh, I got the last word in" type affair which people on both sides were pretty bored with going continually for hundreds of years isn't just a complete waste of time and money, as well as lives?
Why the hell should we have recognised the Free State in the 20's, bunch of traitorous Tauges.
Because we had so many better and more interesting things to do than boss about a bunch of farmers who were pissed off at us?

Why the hell should we have recognised the Free State in the 20's, bunch of traitorous Tauges.

Taigs. However as a few of the leaders were Protestant "fenian" would be better.

Taigs. However as a few of the leaders were Protestant "fenian" would be better.
Or maybe even "wise".

Wasn't so bad for us English back in the day
A big waste of tax money I should think.

The ones who were killing Brits in 1921, or the ones who were killing Brits in 1992
It was never the Brits' right to occupy Ireland. They didn't like being part of your glorious empire, and were willing to kill and die over the issue. And they won. Cry me a river, and then build a bridge and get the fuck over it.


Why the hell should we have recognised the Free State in the 20's, bunch of traitorous Tauges.
Traitorous? That would require them to be British in the first place. They weren't, and never considered themselves to be. A war was fought over it, they won, you lost.

Chiming in as an objective (so I hope) American bystander:

The problem I have with the IRA is killing. Now, I'm not a religious person, to start spitting nonsense that killing people will condemn you to hell, et cetera. However...

I won't make the uneducated claim that the two parties at question- Ireland and the UK- should just negotiate and settle down. That sort of shit's wishful thinking, at best. But neither can the claim that killing people for liberty be justified. You can't compare it with other revolutions- sure, they were bloody, but they lasted less than 10 years. This Eire-Britain bullshit's been going on for near a century, and the result is... nothing.

Seriously... the British nationals should realize that they are not the great imperial power they once were. Please, do not take that into offense, thinking that I am calling you weak- God (or whoever) knows, we aren't the epitome of perfection anymore either. All I'm saying is... the war's over, or should be. Ireland's free. Let it go. Is it really worth hundreds of deaths to argue over the northern tip of the British Isles? Damn.

Chiming in as an objective (so I hope) American bystander:

The problem I have with the IRA is killing. Now, I'm not a religious person, to start spitting nonsense that killing people will condemn you to hell, et cetera. However...

I won't make the uneducated claim that the two parties at question- Ireland and the UK- should just negotiate and settle down. That sort of shit's wishful thinking, at best. But neither can the claim that killing people for liberty be justified. You can't compare it with other revolutions- sure, they were bloody, but they lasted less than 10 years. This Eire-Britain bullshit's been going on for near a century, and the result is... nothing.

Seriously... the British nationals should realize that they are not the great imperial power they once were. Please, do not take that into offense, thinking that I am calling you weak- God (or whoever) knows, we aren't the epitome of perfection anymore either. All I'm saying is... the war's over, or should be. Ireland's free. Let it go. Is it really worth hundreds of deaths to argue over the northern tip of the British Isles? Damn.

Actually, we did talk, and the PIRA's stopped its bombing campaign. It wasn't to do with Eire anyway, it was the Catholic minority in Northern Ireland.

Was never actually bad for 'us English'. The IRA didn't kill many people on the mainland, and almost everyone else involved was a soldier of some kind, which makes them fair game.

Wrong. The IRA killed more civilians than they did soldiers. Literally thousands were killed by IRA bombings and shootings.

Actually, we did talk, and the PIRA's stopped its bombing campaign. It wasn't to do with Eire anyway, it was the Catholic minority in Northern Ireland.

Referendums at the time and opinion polls now still indicate that the majority of the Northern Irish want to remain part of the UK (someone posted a recent poll earlier in the thread).

We were wrong in the 1920s yes, that was a time of Empire and quite frankly throughout the 19th and early 20th Century we fucked over the world. I'm glad the Irish got their independence then, I wish the parliament had of let them go without a fight in fact.

The Northern Irish issue is not so clear cut, it's not about Empire, it's about a majority who do wish to remain British citizens and a minority who did not. Once they started fighting of course we got involved, we could have done it better but it's hardly a clear cut issue. There was no way we could not have got involved, because it was our citizens who were dying, it would be like if pro and anti-US fighting started in Puerto Rico and the US forces weren't to get involved despite the fact the people dying were still American citizens.

Why did you quote me to say that?

Wrong. The IRA killed more civilians than they did soldiers. Literally thousands were killed by IRA bombings and shootings.

I would question 'thousands' - the IRA's mainland targets were nearly always economic as they realised killing people was counter productive.

I would question 'thousands' - the IRA's mainland targets were nearly always economic as they realised killing people was counter productive.

3,600 or so were killed by the IRA from 1969 - 1997.

3,600 or so were killed by the IRA from 1969 - 1997.

I understood it to be 1800 of which 1100 were army/security forces/police according to a study by the University of Ulster

I live in Northern Ireland. I have been a lawyer for 35 years. I have represented murderers from both sides of the political persuasion. The IRA murdered thousands of people. The UDA and fellow terrorists did likewise. I do not need to hear that killing people is counter productive. No political belief warrants killing one's fellow man. It is an act of the most supreme selfishness.

I understood it to be 1800 of which 1100 were army/security forces/police according to a study by the University of Ulster

1857 civilians were killed, 499 soldiers, 204 protestant paras etc, SO I was wrong, it was a total of 3600.

1857 civilians were killed, 499 soldiers, 204 protestant paras etc, SO I was wrong, it was a total of 3600.

Not good whoever has the right figures. As Dunroaming says 'no political belief warrants killing one's fellow man'.

Not good whoever has the right figures. As Dunroaming says 'no political belief warrants killing one's fellow man'.

Yeah, I think we can leave it at that.
[/THREAD]

Well I'm Northern Irish (albeit living in Zambia for the last few years- but I'm coming back this December!) and while I was only a kid during the last of the real troubles my Dad, an Anglican reverend brought me up to be firmly loyal to the peace movement above all else. Violence is simply not the answer. For every soldier, police officer and civilian, for every catholic and protestant there is a unique soul in their and murder is murder. I do believe that Eire should be one independent country once again and I am disgusted with the vicious hatred of the loyalists- but the IRA should never, never have resorted to killing. All they did was bring Northern Ireland's name into the mud and trigger a conflict which saw over 3000 deaths. Is a protestant toddler really to blame for discrimination against catholics? Now don't get me wrong- the protestant terrorists are evil (worse they are for a cause that I have no sympathy for) but the IRA's resorting to violence made them just as bad. Peaceful protests worked in India and America so why didn't we try it in Ulster?

Well I'm Northern Irish (albeit living in Zambia for the last few years- but I'm coming back this December!) and while I was only a kid during the last of the real troubles my Dad, an Anglican reverend brought me up to be firmly loyal to the peace movement above all else. Violence is simply not the answer. For every soldier, police officer and civilian, for every catholic and protestant there is a unique soul in their and murder is murder. I do believe that Eire should be one independent country once again and I am disgusted with the vicious hatred of the loyalists- but the IRA should never, never have resorted to killing. All they did was bring Northern Ireland's name into the mud and trigger a conflict which saw over 3000 deaths. Is a protestant toddler really to blame for discrimination against catholics? Now don't get me wrong- the protestant terrorists are evil (worse they are for a cause that I have no sympathy for) but the IRA's resorting to violence made them just as bad. Peaceful protests worked in India and America so why didn't we try it in Ulster?

Remember when you did: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xKgmnbRjb0Y

If you're Anglican, then why do you support unification of Ireland? I thought that the whole thing was Protestants didn't want a united Ireland?

Wrong. The IRA killed more civilians than they did soldiers. Literally thousands were killed by IRA bombings and shootings.
Not English. They killed loads of Irish non-combatants, but not many English, which is all Renner cares about because he's stupid or something.

Not English. They killed loads of Irish non-combatants, but not many English, which is all Renner cares about because he's stupid or something.

I think he was semi-trolling about the United Ireland ruled from London thing.

I think he was semi-trolling about the United Ireland ruled from London thing.
No, he's just an Empire fanboy who's gutted that he didn't get into the army.

No, he's just an Empire fanboy who's gutted that he didn't get into the army.

How d'you know?

How d'you know?
Because I have read his posts in the past and have fairly accurate powers of eh projection?

Because I have read his posts in the past and have fairly accurate powers of eh projection?

What's "eh projection" and where does he say he wasn't allowed in the army?

What's "eh projection" and where does he say he wasn't allowed in the army?
He used to make a bunch of claims about "when I was in the army", which then rapidly changed to "a friend in the army". Sounds like someone didn't get in to me.

He used to make a bunch of claims about "when I was in the army", which then rapidly changed to "a friend in the army". Sounds like someone didn't get in to me.

Ah, OK. What's your position on this anyway?

Ah, OK. What's your position on this anyway?
On what, the IRA? Said it about ooh, a while ago in this thread. Fuck the IRA, fuck the UDA, not entirely fussed about what happens to NI other than "I'd rather not own it any more". Wouldn't mind it being its own state, or a part of Ireland, since its legal system and the like is all going to be brought into EU standards as soon as it becomes a sovereign nation.

Remember when you did: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xKgmnbRjb0Y


No, you need to start at the beginning....
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aY_4TxpF30o

No, you need to start at the beginning....
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aY_4TxpF30o

I know about that, but I think Bloody Sunday had, and still has, a bigger impact on people.

I know about that, but I think Bloody Sunday had, and still has, a bigger impact on people.
Not really. I think it was the real catalyst for what happened, but the deprivation of rights for Catholics in Northern Ireland was always going to bring backlash at one stage or other.

Not really. I think it was the real catalyst for what happened, but the deprivation of rights for Catholics in Northern Ireland was always going to bring backlash at one stage or other.

But as a single event, Bloody Sunday was the most memorable one of British opression.

But as a single event, Bloody Sunday was the most memorable one of British opression.
I wouldn't know, I wasn't around at the time, nor am I a Catholic Irishman.

I wouldn't know, I wasn't around at the time, nor am I a Catholic Irishman.

You don't have to be to think of Bloody Sunday as memorable. Can you name another time, off the top of your head, where British soldiers shot a bunch of innocent Northern Irish to bits?

You don't have to be to think of Bloody Sunday as memorable. Can you name another time, off the top of your head, where British soldiers shot a bunch of innocents to bits?
Memorable, yes, the real cause of The Troubles? No. That would be the long-standing repression of the Northern Irish, especially the Catholics.

Memorable, yes, the real cause of The Troubles? No. That would be the long-standing repression of the Northern Irish, especially the Catholics.

I didn't say it WAS the start of the troubles, though, did I?

But as a single event, Bloody Sunday was the most memorable one of British opression.

Here's the depressing part, which Bloody Sunday are you talking about?

Here's the depressing part, which Bloody Sunday are you talking about?

You know, the one that happened in Northern Ireland in 1972. Not the 1905 Russian one.

You know, the one that happened in Northern Ireland in 1972. Not the 1905 Russian one.

No, there was another Bloody Sunday - Sunday Afternoon, Croke Park, 21st November 1920.

No, there was another Bloody Sunday - Sunday Afternoon, Croke Park, 21st November 1920.

Is that where all the soldiers attacked a Gaelic Football match?

Is that where all the soldiers attacked a Gaelic Football match?

Just looked it up, I was right, but to Forsakia, that wasn't part of The Troubles.

Is that where all the soldiers attacked a Gaelic Football match?

Thats it, yes.

You don't have to be to think of Bloody Sunday as memorable. Can you name another time, off the top of your head, where British soldiers shot a bunch of innocents to bits?

Hell yeah, just look at their rule of India.

Hell yeah, just look at their rule of India.

In Northern Ireland?

In Ireland?

Ugh.. yeah.. I'm err actually talking about the errr great massacre at Indiaderry, a err town in Ireland. Yeah... lots of people died there, haven't you heard about it!!!? *flees*

Hell yeah, just look at their rule of India.

Amritsar. An indian lad hunted down the bastard who gave the orders years afterwards. Hung for his troubles. They only gave the body back a few years ago.

(It should be noted that the portrayal of the Amritsar massacre in the film "Gandhi" is roughly accurate, whereas some strange liberties were taken with the potrayal of the bloody Sunday massacre in the film "Michael Collins)

In Northern Ireland?

Well the dogs in the street knew the George Cross winning Robert Nairac was behind the Miami Showband massacre.

Well the dogs in the street knew the George Cross winning Robert Nairac was behind the Miami Showband massacre.

Yeah, but the people who did the shooting were UDA or UVF or UFF or some other paramillitary group.

Yeah, but the people who did the shooting were UDA or UVF or UFF or some other paramillitary group.

Yeah, he was innocently standing there at the time...

Yeah, he was innocently standing there at the time...

Well, it wasn't an official British army attack, with British soldiers firing the shots. It was a murder ordered by an English MI5 officer.

Wow. I leave for 2 weeks and.... well, am I glad I missed this shitstorm of a thread.

Well, it wasn't an official British army attack, with British soldiers firing the shots. It was a murder ordered by an English MI5 officer.
So the Government didn't authorise the death through the hierarchy of the army. It just authorised the death through the hierarchy of another security service branch.

Good argument you have there.

Just looked it up, I was right, but to Forsakia, that wasn't part of The Troubles.

I know, but I felt the point was worth making.

Here's the depressing part, which Bloody Sunday are you talking about?

If you knew, why did you say this?

You don't have to be to think of Bloody Sunday as memorable. Can you name another time, off the top of your head, where British soldiers shot a bunch of innocent Northern Irish to bits?

If you knew, why did you say this?

Ok they weren't Northern Irish but...

What Britain did in the past was disgusting but what the IRA were doing was no better both countries should put there past behind them and move forward together but seperately, or unify in to the same state with equal footing but thats never going to happen, or the northern irish should stop there bloody orange marching and exacebating the situation.

ps im english

What Britain did in the past was disgusting but what the IRA were doing was no better both countries should put there past behind them and move forward together but seperately, or unify in to the same state with equal footing but thats never going to happen, or the northern irish should stop there bloody orange marching and exacebating the situation.

ps im english

OK, point number 1, this has nothing to do with the Republic of Ireland, #2 the Provisional IRA has stopped their bombing campaign, #3 not all the Northern Irish do their orange marches, because 43% are Catholic and that's what this is all about.

yeah sorry to all offended innocent northern irish but some of the northern irish orange marchers r out of order and it doesnt help the situation any

yeah sorry to all offended innocent northern irish but some of the northern irish orange marchers r out of order and it doesnt help the situation any
Curious fact 1: There are more members of the Orange Order in Canada than there are in Northern Ireland.

Curious fact 2: Most of us don't really give a damn about the Orange Order. They can march all they want. It's just a bunch of aging old blokes whose belief system is (hopefully) going to die out when they do.

Are these the sort of people who'd shoot you for supporting Al-Qaeda?



They still exist.

what? The IRA as a para military? Wrong.

what? The IRA as a para military? Wrong.

Right. The PIRA still exists, and shot a man this time 2006, they just don't carry out bombings or terrorist attacks anymore, and their war council doesn't exist anymore.

Right. The PIRA still exists, and shot a man this time 2006, they just don't carry out bombings or terrorist attacks anymore, and their war council doesn't exist anymore.

Two years ago.

Right now there is no IRA

However I did not say there aren't any other splinter groups or...lets face it ....criminal gangs.

That would also include the other lots 'patriots'

Crims the fucking lot of them.

Two years ago.

Right now there is no ProvisionalIRA

However I did not say there aren't any other splinter groups or...lets face it ....criminal gangs.

That would also include the other lots 'patriots'

Crims the fucking lot of them.

Fixed. Well, the PIRA is a splinter group in itself, but they're all drug dealers etc anyway.

Fixed. Well, the PIRA is a splinter group in itself, but they're all drug dealers etc anyway.

errr...IRA is equally as valid...you're not British are you?

Fact is that there is no republican terror groups beyond a bunch of gangs that as you say are drug dealers. And enforcers. Thugs.

Nothing to do with either the politics of the Provos nor their stated objectives.

errr...IRA is equally as valid...you're not British are you?

Read my location.

Read my location.

Pretty much makes my point ;)

Pretty much makes my point ;)

Your point being?

Your point being?

A bad joke...

anyway back to the thread...you do realise that when I say IRA I am talking about the same people you are.

A bad joke...

anyway back to the thread...you do realise that when I say IRA I am talking about the same people you are.

I do, but some people might not. There was a bit of confusion earlier on.