NationStates Jolt Archive

As was recently brought to my attention when flipping through late night TV and taking a moment to pause on Bill Maher, it appears that there are two types of community and political leaders.

Governors: These include people like Sarah Palin, George W. Bush, Eliot Spitzer, and Pontius Pilate.

Community Organizers: These include people like Barack Obama, Martin Luther King Jr., César Chávez, Moses, and Jesus.

So, what type of leader should we be looking for in the presidential ticket? I am of the personal belief that we should be following the Community Organizer route, but I want to her from NSG, especially the NSG Dark Side Party and their cookies/pies/tacos basis for organizing their community.

i am still baffled by the derision of the republicans towards community organizers. especially those that work with churches.

oh hey, i see the mccain "compliance fund" ad on this page. if youre wondering what it means i read this article on slate today explaining it.

http://www.slate.com/id/2199935/

Other community organizers: Adolf Hitler, Mao Zedong, Kim Il-Sung, Vladimir Lenin, Robert Mugabe.

Sorry to Godwin this thread to shit already, but it's completely foolish to somehow believe a "community organizer" is morally superior to a governor; organizers, well, organize things and it is entirely possible that a community organizer could make even the most depraved governor look like a nice guy.

From an experience standpoint, a governor is certainly the more experienced choice but that by no means makes them the better choice, and vice versa. Experience itself doesn't make good leaders; having a firm moral compass,the responsibility and confidence to carry through on your goals and promises, and a sense of humility and reason that allows you to listen to others and admit mistakes make you a good leader. I think both candidates have this and both of them could be excellent leaders should the need arise.

Of course, it is still surprising to see how afraid the Democrats are of Palin...this really shook them up and they're still trying to recover from it.

Other community organizers: Adolf Hitler, Mao Zedong, Kim Il-Sung, Vladimir Lenin, Robert Mugabe.

<snip>
Actually, all those guys ended up -- and were way more famous as -- heads of state, which puts them in the "governor" column, not the "community organizer" column.

But nice try.

Actually, all those guys ended up -- and were way more famous as -- heads of state, which puts them in the "governor" column, not the "community organizer" column.

But nice try.

The point is that their status as community organizers did not make them good leaders or good people. Attempting to argue one position is inherently superior to the other is ludicrous; Obama's status as a community organizer doesn't mean he's going to be a better person or a better leader or that his status as an organizer imparts him with an especially effective worldview.

I mean, if you're going to lump Obama in with Jesus and MLK you might as well include Hitler and Mao for good measure.

Sorry to Godwin this thread to shit already, but it's completely foolish to somehow believe a "community organizer" is morally superior to a governor; organizers, well, organize things and it is entirely possible that a community organizer could make even the most depraved governor look like a nice guy.

Yeah, but if you're gonna use "possible", then ANYthing's possible.

From an experience standpoint, a governor is certainly the more experienced choice but that by no means makes them the better choice, and vice versa. Experience itself doesn't make good leaders; having a firm moral compass,the responsibility and confidence to carry through on your goals and promises, and a sense of humility and reason that allows you to listen to others and admit mistakes make you a good leader. I think both candidates have this and both of them could be excellent leaders should the need arise.

Not sure where you get that -- surely that depends on how long both your compared individuals have been doing their respective jobs. I'd trust a multi-year community organizer over a one-year governor, especially if the community in question was, say really big and the state really small with regard to population.

I agree with the rest of that second paragraph. Well said.

I mean, if you're going to lump Obama in with Jesus and MLK you might as well include Hitler and Mao for good measure.

Keep in mind this wouldn't even be a thread if the Republican Noise Machine didn't have the gall to say that I Can't Believe It's Not Hillary's couple year stint as governor of a sparsely populated and geographically isolated state somehow makes her more qualified than Barack Obama's times as community organizer, law school journal editor and State Senator.

Other community organizers: Adolf Hitler, Mao Zedong, Kim Il-Sung, Vladimir Lenin, Robert Mugabe.

Sorry to Godwin this thread to shit already, but it's completely foolish to somehow believe a "community organizer" is morally superior to a governor; organizers, well, organize things and it is entirely possible that a community organizer could make even the most depraved governor look like a nice guy.

Ah, yes, I forgot about those guys. Let's see: we've got a Nazi, three Commies, and a nut-job.

You are, of course, right about the idea of a bad community organizer. I'm just trying to state that good community organizers aren't automatically unqualified people destined to bring ruin and destruction raining down from the heavens.

It requires a specific check. You have to check to see if they want anybody dead, overthrown, or forcibly ejected from their country. If all they're asking for is a little political change, some love to the neighbor and a consideration of a dream, then they're worth hearing.

The point is that their status as community organizers did not make them good leaders or good people. Attempting to argue one position is inherently superior to the other is ludicrous; Obama's status as a community organizer doesn't mean he's going to be a better person or a better leader or that his status as an organizer imparts him with an especially effective worldview.

I mean, if you're going to lump Obama in with Jesus and MLK you might as well include Hitler [head of state] and Mao [head of state] for good measure.

You might as well not, actually. I know what you mean, but you need better examples.

Keep in mind this wouldn't even be a thread if the Republican Noise Machine didn't have the gall to say that I Can't Believe It's Not Hillary's couple year stint as governor of a sparsely populated and geographically isolated state somehow makes her more qualified than Barack Obama's times as community organizer, law school journal editor and State Senator.

The problem is, it's working. I think the number one challenge for Obama is to keep this decline contained or else he'll be looking at defeat come November. The choice of Palin was a genius move, to be quite honest, one that completely changed the face of the game and put the Republican ticket back in a competitive position.

I think the Democrats underestimated the potential of the McCain campaign, the same mistake they made in 2004, and they need to move fast to prevent a repeat.

You might as well not, actually. I know what you mean, but you need better examples.

Alright, any one of their subordinates. The problem is, not many people know who Adolf Wagner or Fang Zhemin are today even if they were pretty important in their time and place.

The point is that previous experience does not guarantee good leadership.

The problem is, it's working. I think the number one challenge for Obama is to keep this decline contained or else he'll be looking at defeat come November. The choice of Palin was a genius move, to be quite honest, one that completely changed the face of the game and put the Republican ticket back in a competitive position.

I think the Democrats underestimated the potential of the McCain campaign, the same mistake they made in 2004, and they need to move fast to prevent a repeat.

Turning the other cheek did well for Jesus, but it'll leave the Democrats as doormats for the Third Bush Term and the decline of the United States. Much as Obama wants to perhaps truly represent a change in politics The Same Old Shit is working and he needs to start opening up a can of WhoopAss with all the dirty shit that the Republican Candidates are known to have.

Alright, any one of their subordinates. The problem is, not many people know who Adolf Wagner or Fang Zhemin are today even if they were pretty important in their time and place.

The point is that previous experience does not guarantee good leadership.

Point taken.

Sorry, Vet, I'm really irritable tonight because of the whole "ad in Spanish only" immigration horseshit in another thread. I've hit my limit of GOP bullshit and the fact that the nation is, once again, too goddamned stupid to see through it.

Welcome to three days ago.

The scary thing is that there are people living in Tennessee who are represented by a Congressman who thinks the Christ/Pilate (etc.) comparisons are something other than specious rhetoric:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/10/tennessee-rep-compares-obama-to-jesus-suggests-palin-is-pilate/

Enjoy, Tennesseans. :tongue:

The point is that their status as community organizers did not make them good leaders or good people. Attempting to argue one position is inherently superior to the other is ludicrous; Obama's status as a community organizer doesn't mean he's going to be a better person or a better leader or that his status as an organizer imparts him with an especially effective worldview.

I mean, if you're going to lump Obama in with Jesus and MLK you might as well include Hitler and Mao for good measure.
Uh-huh, sure, whatever. Of course, perhaps you should be explaining to the McCain team that being a governor doesn't automatically make you a good leader, either. Just look at the fucktards all around us for examples.

Alright, any one of their subordinates. The problem is, not many people know who Adolf Wagner or Fang Zhemin are today even if they were pretty important in their time and place.

The point is that previous experience does not guarantee good leadership.
Granted. Which of course renders the entire "she being a governor is better than him being a community organizer" message just so much hot air. Neither means a damned thing.

Granted. Which of course renders the entire "she being a governor is better than him being a community organizer" message just so much hot air. Neither means a damned thing.

Except to the self-absorbed Reality Television addicts who greedily swallow everything dripping from I Can't Believe It's Not Hillary like a White House Intern.

So when "community organizer" Obama gets to the prez, then he'll be a "governor" then. Which implies that he'll suck. So don't vote for Obama so he won't suck?

Except to the self-absorbed Reality Television addicts who greedily swallow everything dripping from I Can't Believe It's Not Hillary like a White House Intern.
Well, let's be honest here. It's not like they have to say anything to win those people over, is it? There is no fucking way in hell that that particular demographic is ever going to vote for anyone or anything who looks swarthy, has a funny sounding name, doesn't hate foreigners and even admits to being descended from some, and speaks in sentences of more that five words (because we all know they only do that to be confusing). And did I mention that they won't vote for anyone who looks swarthy? Yeah, that too.

Well, let's be honest here. It's not like they have to say anything to win those people over, is it? There is no fucking way in hell that that particular demographic is ever going to vote for anyone or anything who looks swarthy, has a funny sounding name, doesn't hate foreigners and even admits to being descended from some, and speaks in sentences of more that five words (because we all know they only do that to be confusing). And did I mention that they won't vote for anyone who looks swarthy? Yeah, that too.

I had to look up swarthy cause of you. Way to make me learn, jerkstore.

I had to look up swarthy cause of you. Way to make me learn, jerkstore.
:D At least my ebil liberal crossword-puzzle-doing life hasn't been a total waste. ;)

The problem is, it's working. I think the number one challenge for Obama is to keep this decline contained or else he'll be looking at defeat come November. The choice of Palin was a genius move, to be quite honest, one that completely changed the face of the game and put the Republican ticket back in a competitive position.

I think the Democrats underestimated the potential of the McCain campaign, the same mistake they made in 2004, and they need to move fast to prevent a repeat.

I think that initially it was a great move, in terms of motivating the base. As the time continues the public gets to go through the vetting process. John McCain and Barack Obama have been in the public spotlight for so long as of this point. We've gone through Rev. Wright. We've made it through, "thank God for you Joe Leiberman because I've forgotten who the combatants were." There's already plenty coming out about Palin, and the hits just keep on coming. Her interview with Charlie Rose showed some weaknesses that we will continue to see. She tried to stick to the script and "stay on message." She gets a %70 in that regard. I agree that the Obama camp needs to move fast. They need to step up the return fire and treat her like she didn't have a vagina :) In today's world equality means just that. If you want to step into an arena primarily inhabited by men then you better be ready to "take it like a man."

As was recently brought to my attention when flipping through late night TV and taking a moment to pause on Bill Maher, it appears that there are two types of community and political leaders.

Governors: These include people like Sarah Palin, George W. Bush, Eliot Spitzer, and Pontius Pilate.

Community Organizers: These include people like Barack Obama, Martin Luther King Jr., César Chávez, Moses, and Jesus.

So, what type of leader should we be looking for in the presidential ticket? I am of the personal belief that we should be following the Community Organizer route, but I want to her from NSG, especially the NSG Dark Side Party and their cookies/pies/tacos basis for organizing their community.

I love how the governors are all unambiguously bad or evil and the community organizers are all unambiguously good. I can add to this list, in spite of it's poorly defined criteria:

Governor: Franklin D. Roosevelt, Winston Churchill, Caesar Augustus, and Charlemagne

Community Organizers: Osama bin Laden, David Duke, Adolf Hitler

I'd say that leadership style is largely irrelevant. Depending on the time and circumstances, different forms of leadership are required. The leadership style doesn't concern me, as long as they can get good results.

Governors and community organizers are simply two different forms of the same overall job, and a good President can come from either one. Neither one should be looked down upon, really.