NationStates Jolt Archive

So, here's the bloggy bit. I promise it's short and relates to a debatable question:

I've been lucky in that my pregnancy has been totally normal and relatively symptom-free thus far. However, I'm beginning to suspect that becoming pregnant has stuck me with a side effect that isn't mentioned in any baby book: claustrophobia. I've never ever been claustrophobic before, and it's gotten progressively worse throughout the pregnancy, to the point where I really can't call it "mild" anymore as I went to the ER in the middle of the night because I couldn't breathe and had chest pains.

Sure, baby books talk about the baby-related anxieties I might be feeling, but there's a big difference between "feeling anxious" and "gasping for breath because you think the walls are closing in on you". Knowing that I'm being totally irrational doesn't seem to make it easier to breathe.
[end of bloggy bit]

So this experience has got me seriously skeptical of the meaningfulness of actual rational thought. I may not be the sanest cat on the block, but I'm sure as hell not the only person out there with a phobia, so I wonder why, if I can't trust my own brain to be rational when it comes to fairly basic concepts (like whether the walls are closing in or not,) why I should ask the same of other people. Obviously logic exists, and is employed by people all the time, but why is it necessarily the best method of finding a solution? Isn't it possible that logical argument is like Euclidean geometry -- it seems like it's universal, but in fact is based on unprovable premises that one could arbitrarily change to come up with a self-consistent system that nevertheless isn't useful?

Is logic overrated? Is it useful in some situations but not others, and what are the criteria for determining which is which? Is it possible for human beings to be truly rational?

Logic is by no means a universal - it is a concept system derived from empirical observation and use of language as the axioms of logic show (e.g. identity, causation etc.). It is a useful tool, and it is the best tool in understanding the world, just as science is (as they rely roughly on the same principles), for the same reasons science is (as I have argued in another thread).

And on an aside, logic isn't self-consistent, like Euclidean geometry. You can use logic to refute logic.

logic is a tool.

as such it is not the right tool for every situation.

Reason and logic are just fine when used as tools, but as guides they are a load of crap. As the great philosopher Leon Carr once said, "Sometimes you feel like a nut; sometimes you don't."

so when are you due?

YOU'RE feeling claustrophobic? How do you think the fetus feels?

so when are you due?

Early-Novemberish.

YOU'RE feeling claustrophobic? How do you think the fetus feels?

Kicky and squirmy, as far as I can tell. One of the hypotheses I've been considering is that I'm somehow picking up on what the fetus is feeling. No empirical basis for this, but things cross one's mind at 2 AM...plus there was that article on termites in the Atlantic that mentioned that the bacteria in our gut may be able to influence our appetites, and if the E. coli, why not the H. sapiens?

So, here's the bloggy bit. I promise it's short and relates to a debatable question:

I've been lucky in that my pregnancy has been totally normal and relatively symptom-free thus far. However, I'm beginning to suspect that becoming pregnant has stuck me with a side effect that isn't mentioned in any baby book: claustrophobia. I've never ever been claustrophobic before, and it's gotten progressively worse throughout the pregnancy, to the point where I really can't call it "mild" anymore as I went to the ER in the middle of the night because I couldn't breathe and had chest pains.

Sure, baby books talk about the baby-related anxieties I might be feeling, but there's a big difference between "feeling anxious" and "gasping for breath because you think the walls are closing in on you". Knowing that I'm being totally irrational doesn't seem to make it easier to breathe.
[end of bloggy bit]

So this experience has got me seriously skeptical of the meaningfulness of actual rational thought. I may not be the sanest cat on the block, but I'm sure as hell not the only person out there with a phobia, so I wonder why, if I can't trust my own brain to be rational when it comes to fairly basic concepts (like whether the walls are closing in or not,) why I should ask the same of other people. Obviously logic exists, and is employed by people all the time, but why is it necessarily the best method of finding a solution? Isn't it possible that logical argument is like Euclidean geometry -- it seems like it's universal, but in fact is based on unprovable premises that one could arbitrarily change to come up with a self-consistent system that nevertheless isn't useful?

Is logic overrated? Is it useful in some situations but not others, and what are the criteria for determining which is which? Is it possible for human beings to be truly rational?

Logic is useful in maths. Also the baby is eating your brain. You should return to normal after all the post partum ick. (if you don't, well, the baby broke you)

logical argument is like Euclidean geometry --

damn, I was expecting a punchline after that...

The American populace for the last 7 years seems to believe that logic is overrated.

Logic is like a hammer. Good for driving nails, not so good at cutting down a tree.

Early-Novemberish.



Kicky and squirmy, as far as I can tell. One of the hypotheses I've been considering is that I'm somehow picking up on what the fetus is feeling. No empirical basis for this, but things cross one's mind at 2 AM...plus there was that article on termites in the Atlantic that mentioned that the bacteria in our gut may be able to influence our appetites, and if the E. coli, why not the H. sapiens?
no you arent picking up what s/he is feeling. you are reacting to being "trapped on the rollercoaster". there is only one way this thing ends and its not "stop the ride im getting off"

ooooo are you going to name him/her after whoever wins the election?

Is logic overrated? Is it useful in some situations but not others, and what are the criteria for determining which is which? Is it possible for human beings to be truly rational?
Basically, different kinds of logic are useful for different kinds of situation. On one hand, suddenly feeling paranoid that the walls are closing in on you might seem irrational. On the other, that you might feel that way during pregnancy when you're under hormonal influences is entirely understandable. It might be irrational, but the irrationality is rationally justifiable, if you get what I'm saying, so it's not something to be worried about in and of itself.

Which way of looking at things is right? Well, from different perspectives, they both are, so pick the one that makes you feel better and go with it. Logical deductions are usually incomplete, because nobody ever has a total understanding of the world on which to base their deductions, so for now, pick the incomplete justification that doesn't leave you totally emotionally or intellectually paralyzed, mmkay?

Why should you expect your feelings to be rational? Feelings just are; your rational mind can't decide whether or not to feel something. Rationality has nothing to do with it. If your feelings correspond to your rational conclusions, this is purely incidental.

As for the legitimacy of logic, I'm not sure why claustrophobia would cause you to call it into question. Clearly the walls are not in fact going to (physically) close in on you--the fact that your feelings in this respect are not logical correlates directly with the fact that they do not suggest anything truthful. If anything, this is an affirmation, not a rejection, of logic's legitimacy.

Please show more sense than Sarah Palin (who gave three of her children names that got them beaten up daily).

Logic is like a hammer. Good for driving nails, not so good at cutting down a tree.
My programmable lumberjack robot begs to differ.

Logic is a poor shield against the pie of a clown. *nod*

My programmable lumberjack robot begs to differ.

*smashes robot with sledgehammer*

*smashes robot with sledgehammer*
You monster! I spent an entire 10 minutes making that! :(

You monster! I spent an entire 10 minutes making that! :(

Logic strikes again!

Please show more sense than Sarah Palin (who gave three of her children names that got them beaten up daily).

She probably fired the parents of the kids who beat her kids up.

maybe your pregnant boobs have gotten so big that they are crushing your lungs and making it difficult to breathe

maybe your pregnant boobs have gotten so big that they are crushing your lungs and making it difficult to breathe
shhhhhhh dont tell her about that stuff.

she already cant sleep on her back

or on her stomach

its only going to get worse until the big day when that baby comes whether she is feeling sane or not.

shhhhhhh dont tell her about that stuff.

she already cant sleep on her back

or on her stomach

its only going to get worse until the big day when that baby comes whether she is feeling sane or not.

nah, she just needs more pillows.......I had like 30 by the 9th month....I was a big sweaty fat miserable pillow pile. :p (being 9mo. pregnant in the middle of monsoon in Tucson with no air conditioning is unfun.)

So, here's the bloggy bit. I promise it's short and relates to a debatable question:

I've been lucky in that my pregnancy has been totally normal and relatively symptom-free thus far. However, I'm beginning to suspect that becoming pregnant has stuck me with a side effect that isn't mentioned in any baby book: claustrophobia. I've never ever been claustrophobic before, and it's gotten progressively worse throughout the pregnancy, to the point where I really can't call it "mild" anymore as I went to the ER in the middle of the night because I couldn't breathe and had chest pains.

Sure, baby books talk about the baby-related anxieties I might be feeling, but there's a big difference between "feeling anxious" and "gasping for breath because you think the walls are closing in on you". Knowing that I'm being totally irrational doesn't seem to make it easier to breathe.
[end of bloggy bit]

So this experience has got me seriously skeptical of the meaningfulness of actual rational thought. I may not be the sanest cat on the block, but I'm sure as hell not the only person out there with a phobia, so I wonder why, if I can't trust my own brain to be rational when it comes to fairly basic concepts (like whether the walls are closing in or not,) why I should ask the same of other people.

I dunno; you sounded pretty rational up to now. Could you be over-analyzing?


Obviously logic exists, and is employed by people all the time, but why is it necessarily the best method of finding a solution? Isn't it possible that logical argument is like Euclidean geometry -- it seems like it's universal, but in fact is based on unprovable premises that one could arbitrarily change to come up with a self-consistent system that nevertheless isn't useful?

Is logic overrated? Is it useful in some situations but not others, and what are the criteria for determining which is which? Is it possible for human beings to be truly rational?

The logical argument is the best simply because it makes sense. If it doesn't make sense, it's not the logical argument.

So, here's the bloggy bit. I promise it's short and relates to a debatable question:

I've been lucky in that my pregnancy has been totally normal and relatively symptom-free thus far. However, I'm beginning to suspect that becoming pregnant has stuck me with a side effect that isn't mentioned in any baby book: claustrophobia. I've never ever been claustrophobic before, and it's gotten progressively worse throughout the pregnancy, to the point where I really can't call it "mild" anymore as I went to the ER in the middle of the night because I couldn't breathe and had chest pains.

Sure, baby books talk about the baby-related anxieties I might be feeling, but there's a big difference between "feeling anxious" and "gasping for breath because you think the walls are closing in on you". Knowing that I'm being totally irrational doesn't seem to make it easier to breathe.
[end of bloggy bit]

So this experience has got me seriously skeptical of the meaningfulness of actual rational thought. I may not be the sanest cat on the block, but I'm sure as hell not the only person out there with a phobia, so I wonder why, if I can't trust my own brain to be rational when it comes to fairly basic concepts (like whether the walls are closing in or not,) why I should ask the same of other people. Obviously logic exists, and is employed by people all the time, but why is it necessarily the best method of finding a solution? Isn't it possible that logical argument is like Euclidean geometry -- it seems like it's universal, but in fact is based on unprovable premises that one could arbitrarily change to come up with a self-consistent system that nevertheless isn't useful?

Is logic overrated? Is it useful in some situations but not others, and what are the criteria for determining which is which? Is it possible for human beings to be truly rational?

Wait, you're a woman?

Also, logic is generally useful in most situations, but I think logic will always come with a human context, in some situations moreso than others.

Logic is a poor shield against the pie of a clown. *nod*

An invisible wall on the other hand...

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2007/09/24/mime460.jpg