NationStates Jolt Archive

In yet another "The evil, overly-plotting United States has tried to oust me again" moment, Chavez has told the U.S. that Ambassador Duddy hs three days to leave.

Venezuela's Chavez says US ambassador must leave.

President Hugo Chavez ordered the U.S. ambassador to leave Venezuela in 72 hours and said he was immediately withdrawing his ambassador from Washington.

Chavez said Thursday night that U.S. Ambassador Patrick Duddy is no longer welcome, just as his close ally Bolivia expelled the American envoy from La Paz a day earlier.

"They're trying to do here what they were doing in Bolivia," Chavez said, accusing Washington of trying to oust him.

"That's enough ... from you, Yankees," he said during a televised rally, using an expletive.

The socialist leader said Venezuela's ambassador to Washington, Bernardo Alvarez, would return to the U.S. "when there's a new government in the United States."

The move by Chavez brings relations with Washington to a new low and raises questions about whether the diplomatic clash could hurt trade. Venezuela is the fourth-largest oil supplier to the United States, and Chavez threatened on Thursday to cut off crude shipments "if there's any aggression against Venezuela."

He has made similar threats in the past, but the United States is his No. 1 oil client and taking such an action would debilitate his government financially.

Chavez, long at odds with Washington, appeared to leave open the door for restoring full relations once President George W. Bush's successor is in the White House.

"Hopefully, sooner than later, (the U.S.) will have a government that respects the peoples and the governments of Latin America," Chavez said.

Chavez warned last month that Duddy could soon be "packing his bags" after the diplomat lamented that U.S. and Venezuelan officials have not been cooperating in the war on drugs.

Duddy has said that deteriorating diplomatic relations between Caracas and Washington were giving drug smugglers the upper hand.

Chavez announced the decision to oust Duddy hours after saying his government had detained a group of alleged conspirators in a plot to overthrow him. He accused the group of current and former military officers of trying to assassinate him with backing from the United States.

U.S. officials have repeatedly denied Chavez's accusations of backing plots against him.

Asked about Chavez's remarks, U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Jennifer Rahimi said: "We saw the speech and we're investigating, but we haven't seen anything official."

Tensions between Venezuela and the U.S. grew this week after two Russian strategic bombers were deployed to the country at Chavez's invitation.

"The presence of those Russian planes in Venezuela is a warning," Chavez said. "There's nothing better to keep yourself from being attacked than to dissuade."

The president said that behind the conspiracy to overthrow him were "the same coup-plotters" who masterminded a failed 2002 coup — which he also blamed on the Bush administration.

Chavez ordered an investigation of the alleged plot, which he said involved an active vice admiral and other former military officers. He said his intelligence services had been "following this for some time."

Military prosecutors were questioning several officers about their alleged involvement, Defense Minister Gen. Gustavo Rangel Briceno said.

Chavez ally Mario Silva, who hosts a program on state television, first played recordings of the purported coup plotters' phone conversations late Wednesday. It was unclear when they were recorded.

In one, a voice identified as an ex-officer said "we're going to take" the presidential palace. In another, a voice identified as retired air force Gen. Eduardo Baez Torrealba said "there is a pilot who has 1,000 hours in an F-16" — allegedly to be used in the plot.

Chavez said the authorities have known for some time that the conspirators were "looking for ground-to-air missiles ... to try to blow up the presidential plane ... or bomb the (presidential) palace with a plane."

____

Associated Press writers Ian James and Fabiola Sanchez contributed to this report.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Linkster-ized (http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20080912/Venezuela.US/)

So, what do we, the dregs, the masses, the insane, and the geniuses of NSG think of this recent turn of events? Is Chavez posturing again, or is he moving on to something else?

Given his history, I'd have to say he's being a jackass, and an unoriginal one at that, since Bolivia is doing the same damn thing.

On the other hand, this does kinda seem to coincide with Eva Morales giving the U.S. Ambassador a boot as well.

Far fetched as it is, could be some kinda plot from the Bolivarian Justice League.

Chavez is an IRL Troll.

I really dont care what Chavez does or thinks anymore.


Chavez is an IRL Troll.


This.

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

No one has been paying any attention to Chavez for a while. The situation with Colombia cooled down quickly, no one cared about his stance on South Ossetia/Abkhazia and the US didn't even respond to his Russian navy thing. No one did. I say just let him be.

Chavez wants attention. he wants us to stage bad attempts to over throw him that he can thwart in order to keep his America is out to get me policy going.

Given his history, I'd have to say he's being a jackass, and an unoriginal one at that, since Bolivia is doing the same damn thing.

Given the USA's history can you really dismiss his claims.

Hands up everyone who's sure that the CIA isn't at least involved in anti-Chavez movement in Venezuela.

It's quite probably it's Chavez posturing/using an excuse to remove people he doesn't like/etc but it's hardly the most unbelievable claim in the world.

A year from now, the Chinese and American diplomats exchange behind the scenes high-fives as a successful China-backed coup ousts both of them in favor of new regimes committed to increased oil production and foreign investment...

A year from now, the Chinese and American diplomats exchange behind the scenes high-fives as a successful China-backed coup ousts both of them in favor of new regimes committed to increased oil production and foreign investment...

Followed by threads on NSG about how it was all justified to save South America from those Damn Dirty Bolivarian Leftists.

Followed by threads on NSG about how it was all justified to save South America from those Damn Dirty Bolivarian Leftists.

It's like the Cold War, except both countries have the exact same interests. That's either really great or really terrible.

A year from now, the Chinese and American diplomats exchange behind the scenes high-fives as a successful China-backed coup ousts both of them in favor of new regimes committed to increased oil production and foreign investment...
That had better not happen. We've had enough of that kind of ridiculous crap already.

And another attempt by the Russians to secure one of the world's last remaining reserves of oil begins.

And another attempt by the Russians to secure one of the world's last remaining reserves of oil begins.

Assuming Hugo simply doesn't let them lease it at a discount. It's no secret that the United States and its more prominent figures would rather have him out of the picture completely and Chavez knows scratching Russia's back would piss them off even more.

given the usa's history can you really dismiss his claims.

Hands up everyone who's sure that the cia isn't at least involved in anti-chavez movement in venezuela.

It's quite probably it's chavez posturing/using an excuse to remove people he doesn't like/etc but it's hardly the most unbelievable claim in the world.

qft.

No, it's not entirely unbelievable. It just seems highly unlikely.

Let's face it: What Chavez is doing is no threat to the US. His bluffs on Oil have been called and it's clear he has no intention of doing so - particularly as the US will just buy the Oil someplace else and leave Venezuela to twist in the wind. Chavez owes his entire international standing to twitting the US; his economic reforms haven't been especially successful, his international diplomacy has otherwise been just short of a total failure, and it's questionable how much of his own country really supports him. It's 100% in his interests to portray the US as "the big outside enemy" - when in fact, the US appears primarily to be ignoring him.

Let's face it: What Chavez is doing is no threat to the US. His bluffs on Oil have been called and it's clear he has no intention of doing so - particularly as the US will just buy the Oil someplace else and leave Venezuela to twist in the wind.
That's the whole point. That's what is going on here now. The beginnings anyway.
What do you think happens when a nation like Russia comes in and takes over the U.S. role in the Venezuelan oil economy? Think they can't handle the volume? They are notorious resellers of oil.

That's the whole point. That's what is going on here now. The beginnings anyway.
What do you think happens when a nation like Russia comes in and takes over the U.S. role in the Venezuelan oil economy? Think they can't handle the volume? They are notorious resellers of oil.

Sure - but shipping oil halfway round the world only to sell-on isn't going to make much profit. If Russia or Venzuela had the tankers to manage it.

No, it's not entirely unbelievable. It just seems highly unlikely.

Let's face it: What Chavez is doing is no threat to the US. His bluffs on Oil have been called and it's clear he has no intention of doing so - particularly as the US will just buy the Oil someplace else and leave Venezuela to twist in the wind. Chavez owes his entire international standing to twitting the US; his economic reforms haven't been especially successful, his international diplomacy has otherwise been just short of a total failure, and it's questionable how much of his own country really supports him. It's 100% in his interests to portray the US as "the big outside enemy" - when in fact, the US appears primarily to be ignoring him.

Oil+lefties+russia, in S America. The odds of the USA being involved in covertly opposing that seem pretty short. (on a side note, why are odds so badly used in describing the likelihood or something, good odds or high odds would be ones where there's greater return for the better and so would suggest something is unlikely).

Venezuela is never going to be short of buyers for oil, even excluding the US. They may currently make more profit selling to the US due to closeness etc, but the US needs his oil more than he needs the US imho.

Oil+lefties+russia, in S America. The odds of the USA being involved in covertly opposing that seem pretty short.

It's not the Cold War anymore, man. The odds are hardly short. They're not even mid range.

Given his history, I'd have to say he's being a jackass, and an unoriginal one at that, since Bolivia is doing the same damn thing.

On the other hand, this does kinda seem to coincide with Eva Morales giving the U.S. Ambassador a boot as well.

Far fetched as it is, could be some kinda plot from the Bolivarian Justice League.

Coincide? Unoriginal?

Did you read properly the news?

Chávez expulsed the ambassador in "solidarity" with Bolivia. Actually, the Bolivian situation spawned this. This is not a coincidence, it is a direct cause and effect.

Oil+lefties+russia, in S America. The odds of the USA being involved in covertly opposing that seem pretty short. (on a side note, why are odds so badly used in describing the likelihood or something, good odds or high odds would be ones where there's greater return for the better and so would suggest something is unlikely).

Venezuela is never going to be short of buyers for oil, even excluding the US. They may currently make more profit selling to the US due to closeness etc, but the US needs his oil more than he needs the US imho.

Both countries need each other. As you pointed out, Venezuela is not going to run out of oil buyers right now at the price the oil has. As it is an extremely expensive product, it is easy to invest into more complicate ways of trade it. Yet, the increase in the cost that kind of thing can have is not good for Venezuela, because its economy fairly depends on oil entirely, and any loss of revenues is going to impact us further.

My two cents:

Chávez has been waiting to do this for some time. Evo Morales' situation and the fact that the US is facing elections in two months and likely stay quiet over the incident until Bush is out of office, just gave him the perfect moment to exploit.

It's not the Cold War anymore, man. The odds are hardly short. They're not even mid range.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_sponsored_regime_change#Since_the_end_of_the_Cold_War

Enjoy. Obviously many of them are alleged, some more reliable than others, but given they were openly funding opposition groups in 01/02 I'm skeptical they just stopped everything after the coup attempt.

Venezuela is never going to be short of buyers for oil, even excluding the US. They may currently make more profit selling to the US due to closeness etc, but the US needs his oil more than he needs the US imho.


^^This. Besides, I say good on Chavez. Given the track record of the US involvement in the world, especially Latin and South America, I would gladly remove any USian presence, if I were a leader of a nation.

If there wasn't a Castro, Capitalism would need to invent one.
Well Castro has been reinvented.

To give Chavez his due, he has survived at least three US-backed ousting attempts. I guess the Paranoid is the ultimate realist.

Chávez expulsed the ambassador in "solidarity" with Bolivia. Actually, the Bolivian situation spawned this. This is not a coincidence, it is a direct cause and effect.
The question is: why?

Morales is on the way out. US involvement or not, he doesn't have the same sort of mandate as Chávez used to enjoy, and he can't hope to ultimately secure any of his political ideas against the governors and populations of the states the gas is coming from. Once his term ends, he'd likely lose and Bolivarianism in Bolivia ends.

Now, Chávez could simply be doing the same he always does, which is to take some random event, blame it on the US and try and win popular support by loudly being against it. That might make the most sense, and makes this simply a domestic Venezuelan issue.

At any rate, he's not saving Morales. That leaves Correa, who I have no idea whether he could survive another election, and the Kirchners, who aren't hardcore Bolivarians anyways (and are heading for an economic crisis themselves).

Apparently Honduras is joining in.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7612778.stm
A series of tit-for-tat expulsions has left the US without ambassadors in three Latin American countries.
...
Now Honduran President Manuel Zelaya has refused to accept the credentials of a new US ambassador.

"We are not breaking relations with the United States. We only are [doing this] is solidarity with Morales, who has denounced the meddling of the United States in Bolivia's internal affairs," Mr Zelaya said.

I would only point at them and laugh.

I would only point at them and laugh.
Don't worry about it. It's just the result of Chávez spending all that money he should have spent on Venezuelan taxpayers on foreign governments. So now they all joined a thing called "ALBA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivarian_Alternative_for_the_Americas)", and stunts like this are part of the program.

Don't worry about it. It's just the result of Chávez spending all that money he should have spent on Venezuelan taxpayers on foreign governments. So now they all joined a thing called "ALBA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivarian_Alternative_for_the_Americas)", and stunts like this are part of the program.
If that was Jessica ALBA, I'm sure men and countries would be waiting in line.

I'd like to live to the day when oil prices would collapse. :wink:

The question is: why?

Why? The answer is simple. Bolivia and Venezuela are politically and ideologically aligned. Aligned countries tend to do that. The United States tried to intervene in the conflict between Georgia and Russia, for example.

Morales is on the way out. US involvement or not, he doesn't have the same sort of mandate as Chávez used to enjoy, and he can't hope to ultimately secure any of his political ideas against the governors and populations of the states the gas is coming from. Once his term ends, he'd likely lose and Bolivarianism in Bolivia ends.

A questionable statement. Morales' mandate has been just ratified by a referendum, even if you and I do not like it. And with an ample advantage, I must add. The bolivian situation is complex because both himself and the opposing governors were ratified, so although he enjoys national support, he has some serious opposition in certain provinces. That is why the political game is not advancing. (Morales is not actually "bolivarian", by the way).

At any rate, he's not saving Morales. That leaves Correa, who I have no idea whether he could survive another election, and the Kirchners, who aren't hardcore Bolivarians anyways (and are heading for an economic crisis themselves).

As I said, Morales still enjoys substancial electoral support. Regarding Correa, he is more or less in the same position as before, and the referendum for the approval of a new constitution that is going to be made soon is going to be the measure of his actual support. Regarding the Kirchners, Cristina to be precise, they are not hardcore bolivarians, not even bolivarians to begin with. They are peronists, a completely different political philosophy. They are argentinians, and Argentine was liberated by San Martín, not Bolívar, so it's hard to be bolivarian in Argentine except by far off association.

And the economic crisis will depend on how the production of grain develops. After signing a pact with the soy producers, I don't see it coming, then again, economy is a unpredictable thing.