NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, so I came to the conclusion that majority of men do not want children. They only want it because either it's what their Significant other wants, or it's whats society expects of them. However, there is a challenge to my theory, that most guys do want children, especially a boy, so that the family name lives on.

NSG is kind of a good cross section of society, I'm running this survey on other forums as well.

Personally I do not want children, I don't see any point in having children outside of the fact that we apparently never grew out of "Playing house" stage of our childhood. Children are loud, annoying, and they stink worse than a truck stop's toilet that hasn't been flushed in God who knows how long.

Plus, I think my children would be twisted.

So men of NSG, take the survey!

survey?

Is the Question do you want children?

survey?

Is the Question do you want children?

Hey, there's no rules saying that a survey has to have more than one question. *nod*

It's almost like you didn't read my post in your other thread. But nevermind -- you want another box? I'll add my two cents.

I would like to have a child. As for why, that doesn't really matter.

How exactly did you come to that conclusion?

How exactly did you come to that conclusion?

Because I haven't really met that many guys who's long term plan is "have children".

How exactly did you come to that conclusion?

He's Wilgrove. He looks around at his immediate surroundings and assumes the world is just like that.

No offense, Willy, but that's what it seems like sometimes.

I view myself as too irrisponsible at this time to have children. I doubt my ability to be a good father and frankly... having a life so totally dependant on me is rather intimidating. Besides, babysitting all my Nieces and Nephews is almost more than I can bear...

so I'd say no. I don't want children

He's Wilgrove. He looks around at his immediate surroundings and assumes the world is just like that.

No offense, Willy, but that's what it seems like sometimes.

Eh at least it's only sometimes. :D

maybe.

I can't wait until the day that I have children. :)

Because I haven't really met that many guys who's long term plan is "have children".
Ah. So the few guys that you meet that don't want children make up the majority of the population.

Gotcha.

I view myself as too irrisponsible at this time to have children. I doubt my ability to be a good father and frankly... having a life so totally dependant on me is rather intimidating. Besides, babysitting all my Nieces and Nephews is almost more than I can bear...

so I'd say no. I don't want children

Ugh, I am right there with you. I've babysat my Nephew to know more than enough that I don't want children. Don't get me wrong, I love my nephew, but Jesus Christ...the kid does not have a frickin' off button. I swear, I am close to putting Valium in his supper the next time I have to babysit him.

"No...he wasn't any trouble at all, he fell right asleep. Yea, he may not wake up for another 12 hours...."

I can't wait until the day that I have children. :)

Ok, and why do you want children?

No! to children. I'm too lazy, selfish and self absorbed to want kids, i don't know if it anything to do with being a guy though, i know plenty of women who completely agree with me. Besides kids are bad for the environment, the inconvenient truth the eco-fascists wont tell you about.

Ugh, I am right there with you. I've babysat my Nephew to know more than enough that I don't want children. Don't get me wrong, I love my nephew, but Jesus Christ...the kid does not have a frickin' off button. I swear, I am close to putting Valium in his supper the next time I have to babysit him.

"No...he wasn't any trouble at all, he fell right asleep. Yea, he may not wake up for another 12 hours...."

*LOL*

while the idea of Valium never crossed my mind...

let's just say my local Blockbuster knows when I'll be babysitting... :tongue:

*LOL*

while the idea of Valium never crossed my mind...

let's just say my local Blockbuster knows when I'll be babysitting... :tongue:

Videos does not do it for my nephew. He has to get into everything.

Which is why I'm considering Valium.

See, this is another reason why I don't want kids. I want to get married someday, or at least have a live in girlfriend who I'd be in a LTR with.

When I come home from a busy day at work, I want my "me" time, so that I can relax and unwind from the day. After I have my "me" time, if I have someone I want "us" time, and by the end of that, it'd be sleep time.

If I have a child, "Me" time goes right out the window, and "Us" time will only happen when the child is with grandparents, or asleep.

I'm sorry, but I need my "me" time and "us" time.

Ok, and why do you want children?

They bring freshness to life. I figure if I can enjoy my time with 60 screaming kids, then having one or two would be fantastic to have. I just like the knowledge that I can be able to take care of another living thing, and love it with all that I have, and in the end that I could teach it to be the best person he/she can be. There is just something unique about children.

Videos does not do it for my nephew. He has to get into everything.

Which is why I'm considering Valium.

See, this is another reason why I don't want kids. I want to get married someday, or at least have a live in girlfriend who I'd be in a LTR with.

When I come home from a busy day at work, I want my "me" time, so that I can relax and unwind from the day. After I have my "me" time, if I have someone I want "us" time, and by the end of that, it'd be sleep time.

If I have a child, "Me" time goes right out the window, and "Us" time will only happen when the child is with grandparents, or asleep.

I'm sorry, but I need my "me" time and "us" time.

For me, I have had my entire life for "me" time.

I simply hate children. They are extremely annoying..and disgusting.

They bring freshness to life. I figure if I can enjoy my time with 60 screaming kids, then having one or two would be fantastic to have. I just like the knowledge that I can be able to take care of another living thing, and love it with all that I have, and in the end that I could teach it to be the best person he/she can be. There is just something unique about children.

there's also the fact that you can see the world through there eyes. watch them maneuver though life on unsteady legs.

then there are those 'moments' where you just wish you had a camera running to capture the fun times.

yeah children are a treasure.

They bring freshness to life. I figure if I can enjoy my time with 60 screaming kids, then having one or two would be fantastic to have. I just like the knowledge that I can be able to take care of another living thing, and love it with all that I have, and in the end that I could teach it to be the best person he/she can be. There is just something unique about children.

Dogs can fulfill your needs just as well if not better.

and they're much better than children, they don't have the rebellious phase.

yeah children are a treasure.

So you want to lock them in a chest, and bury it on some remote island?

Because I haven't really met that many guys who's long term plan is "have children".
My long term plan isn't "have children", but it does include "have children". Maybe that's where I'm going wrong...

Ok, so I came to the conclusion that majority of men do not want children.
I believe it's a wrong conclusion. From what I know, most men do want children. Preferably a son, and just one (until he grows up a bit), but still.

Your son or child is the person you pass on to the most crucial things you've learned in your life - the person who carries on a part of you when you are not. A conclusion and a new beginning. Although, if I had a shot at lifting the time limit, I'd still consider having a child.

I'm a man and no, for a few reasons.

First, the previous post reminded me of the environmental issues, and also my beleif that the world is going to be a very nasty place to live in this century, and I don't want to put my child through that.

Second, I'd be a shitty father. I'm tempermental, worry excessively, am useless in even a small crisis, and have carreer plans that involve late nights and travling a lot (hence probably being away from my family a lot).

I am not some one who can be a good father, hence I won't try and end up being a shitty one.

So you want to lock them in a chest, and bury it on some remote island?

nah.. preserved and put in a hermatically sealed container then displayed. :tongue:

No. I don't really want to be a major source of someone's psychological issues.

Spit-up is gross. Maybe adopt a kid who's beyond that point?

Spit-up is gross. Maybe adopt a kid who's beyond that point?

... as opposed to diaper duty?

I'm not changing diapers. I'm resourceful, I'll find a way. It's the spit-up that hard to avoid, considering it usually ends up on you, in addition to smelling bad.

I'm not changing diapers. I'm resourceful, I'll find a way. It's the spit-up that hard to avoid, considering it usually ends up on you, in addition to smelling bad.

... you know... the same can be said for diaper duty... :tongue:

just becuase you're changing one diaper... doesn't mean the 'safety' is on and the gun won't fire.

I'm a woman, and I'm ambiguous on the subject of children. I recognize I probably should have children, and my boyfriend really wants them, but I don't know if I want to have kids.

What upsets me is this article (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1839160,00.html?cnn=yes) that states that guys have a biological clock. As if my boyfriend didn't need more reasons to pressure me to have kids. Grr.

Yes, I want kids.

Dogs can fulfill your needs just as well if not better.

and they're much better than children, they don't have the rebellious phase.
Yeah, but I'm not allergic to children. Besides, you're forgetting the best part of having children: when they grow up and leave.

Seriously, though, think man: who's gonna pay for your retirement home?

... you know... the same can be said for diaper duty... :tongue:

just becuase you're changing one diaper... doesn't mean the 'safety' is on and the gun won't fire.

Learned that one the hard way :tongue:

Learned that one the hard way :tongue:

I learned the TWO reasons why people used to hold the pins in their mouths.

1) keeps em from swearing

2) Keeps their mouths closed so that nothing goes inside! :p

Uggggh...children. They should all wear t-shirts with the "irritant" chemical hazard symbol. When they learn to speak they're annoying, and babies are invariably ugly as hell. Yes, so I'm not very maternal, but sod it. Even as a child I found children extremely annoying, so I guess its for the best I can't have them or I'd end up throwing it off a clifftop or leaving it in a forest, Spartan-style:p

Yeah, but I'm not allergic to children. Besides, you're forgetting the best part of having children: when they grow up and leave.

Seriously, though, think man: who's gonna pay for your retirement home?

I will. I am a very independent person, I don't like the idea of having children so I'll have someone to take care of me when I become too senile to take care of myself.

Trust me, if I become senile, take a 12 gauge shotgun to my face and just blow it off, please.

I don't want the end of my life to be me laying in bed, covered in my own shit and urine because some neglectful nurse decides that her soaps are more important than my diaper change.

Presently? No, I don't want kids. I'm aware that I'm not ready to support a child. Do I want kids at a later date, in a few years. Yes. You can determine how my answer fits into your little world paradigm.

Wilgrove in projecting his quite possibly rather pathetic life onto every living human on the planet shocker!

I urge all guys to vote on the poll that they want kids, just to fuck with Wilgrove's worldview.

Anyway, I kinda want kids, but I'm only 22 so it's probably too early for properly wanting them. Give it a few years, until I'm "settled" (that could take a while). I like kids, I'm good with them. Can't have them, though, so adoption FTW.

I'm a chick, though, so that probably doesn't help you much. Screw it.

I'd love to have a kid... as long as the only resource I am required to donate is sperm. Time, energy, money--I'd probably give of all of those things, but I wouldn't want to be obliged.

I figure that unless I can find people who would happily accept this arrangement, I should probably avoid reproducing.

I always wanted kids. Now I have three.

It's interesting that I saw having kids described on here as 'not having grown out of the playing house stage', since - after I had my first - I realised that I hadn't really grown-up at all.

I don't think I'll be having kids, namely because I wouldn't want the extra responsibility piled on top of my career.

Also, I don't think I'd never be able to accept the loss of personal time that comes with kids.

My brother might be having kids, so I think I'd just prefer to be the cool uncle that takes care of them sometimes. I can take them fishing, or play sports with them, and all the cool stuff. Then they go back to the parents. It's perfect!

Wilgrove in projecting his quite possibly rather pathetic life onto every living human on the planet shocker!

I urge all guys to vote on the poll that they want kids, just to fuck with Wilgrove's worldview.

Anyway, I kinda want kids, but I'm only 22 so it's probably too early for properly wanting them. Give it a few years, until I'm "settled" (that could take a while). I like kids, I'm good with them. Can't have them, though, so adoption FTW.

I'm a chick, though, so that probably doesn't help you much. Screw it.

Whoo, adoption buddy!

I don't know. On one hand I would like to pass on knowledge and help raise a kid... On the other hand it is also a lot of work and can probably be a pain in the ass from what I hear.

At the moment or at least in the near future I just want my relatives and friends to have kids so I can be the "Cool Uncle".

Good grief, Wilgrove, how many threads about how members of one gender or the other are all alike are you going to make?

To answer the thread's question, I am female, and I want kids at some future date, but not anytime terribly soon. As for why - because kids are awesome.

I'm a woman, and I'm ambiguous on the subject of children. I recognize I probably should have children, and my boyfriend really wants them, but I don't know if I want to have kids.

What upsets me is this article (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1839160,00.html?cnn=yes) that states that guys have a biological clock. As if my boyfriend didn't need more reasons to pressure me to have kids. Grr.
you need to have a serious talk with your boyfriend. if you dont want children and he does and you dont think that either of you will change, you should let him go.

you need to have a serious talk with your boyfriend. if you dont want children and he does and you dont think that either of you will change, you should let him go.

There are few things dumber than giving dating advise over the internet. One of them is listening to dating advise recieved over the internet.

Nah, not really. Call me irresponsible or whatever, but I'd rather spend my time having fun and doing whoever and whatever I want without having to worry about a family. Not to mention I can spend all that money on myself, on going out, on whatever without having to budget it for my kids' future.

Plus, I'm going to be an accountant for God's sake...do you have any idea how boring Career Day would be for my kids?

There are few things dumber than giving dating advise over the internet. One of them is listening to dating advise recieved over the internet.
yeah because leaving your boyfriend with the impression that you might change your mind and stringing him along for years is such a great idea.

I would feel horrible about bringing a child into this world. However, I would have no problem with adoption.

Voted Man, no kids. I'd rather use my money on buying more cars and other cool stuff.

I would feel horrible about bringing a child into this world. However, I would have no problem with adoption.

I'm sure you would, being as that would be a horrible biological nightmare.

I'm sure you would, being as that would be a horrible biological nightmare.

...And it would give life to a being which never requested such.

...And it would give life to a being which never requested such.

Great logic. If everyone followed that there would be no one to be the everyone to follow it.

Though I suppose you aren't everyone so it shouldn't help nor harm the world in any significant way.

I'm only seventeen, so I have no desire to have kids...now. Maybe I'll start in ten years or so.
That being said, I want at least two kids, and hopefully a daughter. Sorry for ruining both of your generalizations. :D

Great logic. If everyone followed that there would be no one to be the everyone to follow it.

But if many people followed the idea, the world would be a better place, as it would not be overpopulated.

Though I suppose you aren't everyone so it shouldn't help nor harm the world in any significant way.

It will miss my wonderful genes. :(

But if many people followed the idea, the world would be a better place, as it would not be overpopulated.
I agree. In my opinion overpopulation is the greatest threat to world peace. If only because humans are the greatest threat to world peace and more of us won't make it better.

It will miss my wonderful genes. :(
Unlikely. No offense to your genes, but there are so many flying around right now and there always have been, that it would be incredibly hard to miss them unless you tried to on purpose.

I agree. In my opinion overpopulation is the greatest threat to world peace. If only because humans are the greatest threat to world peace and more of us won't make it better.


Unless, like radioactive elements, humans have a critical mass.... and we'll hit, like, 10 billion people - and all of a sudden all our problems go away because there's finally 'enough' of us...?

Unless, like radioactive elements, humans have a critical mass.... and we'll hit, like, 10 billion people - and all of a sudden all our problems go away because there's finally 'enough' of us...?

I like that theory better.

Moar sexin'!

Unless, like radioactive elements, humans have a critical mass.... and we'll hit, like, 10 billion people - and all of a sudden all our problems go away because there's finally 'enough' of us...?

... that is reliant upon Humans knowing on some level when enough is enough. :p

I doubt I'd ever have kids, but I'd love to be a father. The idea of teaching my son to shave, or to throw a ball, and teaching my daughter to fish, and giving her away in marriage. . .I just think I'd be a great dad, and that I'd have a wonderful experience in the process trying to teach a little one how to be a good human being.

Sorry, more stream of consciousness than my usual posts, but suffice to say I think the experience would be well worth the effort. That being said, I have no clue what I'd be like as a husband, beyond loyal.

No, I don't want children. I find them to be irritating. I like things to be low maintenence and without commitment. I like my freedom.

Beyond that, you can't even disclipline your children any more. You can only watch the shits they grow into, and take all the "where were the parents?!" bullshit when they fuck up.

Male, wants kids, inspired by smunklings.

And other awesome kids.

I am female. I want children. I am different from many of my female friends in that regard. I've known since I was a kid that I wanted to have children.

Some guys I know want to have them, some don't. I think the thing about guys wanting a son differs widely between regions and cultures. I know that both of my parents really wanted a girl, and were a little sad when they were told I was going to be a boy. Luckily, the ultrasound technician wasn't very good at his/her job, I guess. :P

I always wanted to be a sports star. Time to live vicariously through bullying a tiny kid into trying to overperform with ridiculously unhelpful genes.

I know that both of my parents really wanted a girl, and were a little sad when they were told I was going to be a boy. Luckily, the ultrasound technician wasn't very good at his/her job, I guess. :P

You know I was recently talking this over with a friend of mine about a mutual friend who is pregnant and doesn't want to know the gender of the child. we were discussing whether ultrasound technology has improved. I mean, sure, you might have been a mix up, but that was...what, early 80s?

Kids, man. They're great!

I'm looking forward to being a father.

No. I hate kids.

Ok, so I came to the conclusion that majority of men do not want children. They only want it because either it's what their Significant other wants, or it's whats society expects of them. However, there is a challenge to my theory, that most guys do want children, especially a boy, so that the family name lives on.

NSG is kind of a good cross section of society, I'm running this survey on other forums as well.

Personally I do not want children, I don't see any point in having children outside of the fact that we apparently never grew out of "Playing house" stage of our childhood. Children are loud, annoying, and they stink worse than a truck stop's toilet that hasn't been flushed in God who knows how long.

Plus, I think my children would be twisted.

So men of NSG, take the survey!

I don't want children and here's why...

1. They're expensive

2. They rob you of the freedom to do what you want with your free time. Kids, ever wonder why your parents are so boring? You're probably the reason why.

3. They smell, they make messes, get into things they're not supposed to... They're worse than my cat.

4. They eventually become teenagers, I think that speaks for itself.

5. They can often make a very big black mark on your family name... Just because you aren't a total degenerate doesn't mean your children won't be.

6. Did I mention they're expensive?

Look, I'm very glad that my parents brought me into this world... Some people can have children and live happy cut-and-paste lives... I'm not one of those people.

I'm male and I'd like to have children. And not to carry on the name. My preference would be for a girl.

There are few things dumber than giving dating advise over the internet. One of them is listening to dating advise recieved over the internet.

Yea, but lets be honest, Do you want kids (yes or no) is one of those "make or break" deals.

I cannot tell you how many women rejected me because I don't want kids, and I had a Vasectomy.

Yea, but lets be honest, Do you want kids (yes or no) is one of those "make or break" deals.

I cannot tell you how many women rejected me because I don't want kids, and I had a Vasectomy.

Dude, I don't mean to be harsh.. but, maybe that's just why they told you they were rejecting you...

:p

Dude, I don't mean to be harsh.. but, maybe that's just why they told you they were rejecting you...

:p

Hey, they ask.

Woman: "So you want children?"
Me: "Nope"
Woman: "Oh, why not?"
Me: "Because they're annoying, hard work, and I don't need to come home to a job, from my job. Plus I can't have any."
Woman: "Check"

Hey, they ask.

Woman: "So you want children?"
Me: "Nope"
Woman: "Oh, why not?"
Me: "Because they're annoying, hard work, and I don't need to come home to a job, from my job. Plus I can't have any."
Woman: "Check"

Lucky for me, my girlfriend hates kids more than I do.

Hey, they ask.

Woman: "So you want children?"
Me: "Nope"
Woman: "Oh, why not?"
Me: "Because they're annoying, hard work, and I don't need to come home to a job, from my job. Plus I can't have any."
Woman: "Check"

could've been worse...

Woman: "So you want children?"
Me: ... "They serve children here? I didn't see that on the menu..."
Woman: "Check"

Hey, they ask.

Woman: "So you want children?"
Me: "Nope"
Woman: "Oh, why not?"
Me: "Because they're annoying, hard work, and I don't need to come home to a job, from my job. Plus I can't have any."
Woman: "Check"

Yeah, but did you ever wonder why they up and ask...?

Here is my opinion on the matter at hand. I am somewhat mixed in my view's about children; I would like to have them because they are cuddly, cute and can be fun, however, having seen my two nephews and niece and their growing up, I also in one way don't want them; they can be irritating as they test your patience, they leave you awake when they are newborn, and of course, they are very costly as well.

The other big problem is that I need a female to have children; and I don't plan on getting hitched at all - I have been put off them by all the tales I have heard from my friends and the mere fact that I am just not desirable to them.

So, while in one way I would like children; I'll probably let the nephews and niece inherit the fortune I plan to create and die childless.

Yeah, but did you ever wonder why they up and ask...?

*shrugs* Hey, at least I'm up front and honest about it. Instead of lying until we were married and then this happens

"Her: Why can't we get pregnant?"
"Me: Oh...heheh....back in Grad School I had a Vasectomy. It turns out that I really don't want children."
"Her: Wha....Wh.....WHAT?"
"Me: Yea, I just want snu snu without condoms...so....yea hehe"
"Her: I want an annulment!"

*shrugs* Hey, at least I'm up front and honest about it. Instead of lying until we were married and then this happens

"Her: Why can't we get pregnant?"
"Me: Oh...heheh....back in Grad School I had a Vasectomy. It turns out that I really don't want children."
"Her: Wha....Wh.....WHAT?"
"Me: Yea, I just want snu snu without condoms...so....yea hehe"
"Her: I want an annulment!"

Wow, that'd be about as awkward as your wife finding an ex-girlfriend's name tattooed on your private area during your honeymoon.

Yes, I wanted a kid when I was younger and now that I'm older and have one, my view has not changed. In fact, the only thing my wife and I are in disagreement is just how many more we should have. And no, I didn't want one just to carry on my family name. Given how common my last name is, it dying out is so not a worry.

A couple of things I'd like to point out though. I think that, far from most guys NOT wanting kids, most guys just don't think about children until they are older and more settled. It's a far, far different thing to think about kids when you're in college or just getting out of it and still enjoying the party life, and another to think about when you've found someone you'd like to share your life with and you're considering building up a future together. I'd also like to point out that, yes, kids are smelly and noisy, and they DO get into trouble (dear God do they get into trouble), but it's amazing how while OTHER kids annoy the hell out of you, YOUR kid does not. Diaper duty is gross... until you've done it for a month or so. Then you don't even blink, and you've learned how to duck quickly. Oh, and finally, yes, you do lose me time and us time, but you also gain time as well. My son and I have spent this summer going for walks around our town (Well, I walk, he gets carried in a carrier or a stroller). It's a guys only affair for just my son and I, and a chance for me to enjoy the world again because everything is still new to him. Besides, there's nothing more rewarding than looking back at him to make sure he's alright and seeing nothing but trust and love in those brown eyes of his.

So don't blow it off guys, it can be the best experience in your life.

yeah because leaving your boyfriend with the impression that you might change your mind and stringing him along for years is such a great idea.

Okay, okay, let's play nice. :)

My boyfriend and I have been dating for seven months. It's not like I'm stringing him along. Or like I've said I'll have kids and am backing down on it.

I just don't know yet. Enough said. And when the time is right (i.e., when I'm not in school), I'll make that decision.

wait, your boyfriend is pressuring you into having kids? Aren't you both like...20?

Yes, I wanted a kid when I was younger and now that I'm older and have one, my view has not changed. In fact, the only thing my wife and I are in disagreement is just how many more we should have. And no, I didn't want one just to carry on my family name. Given how common my last name is, it dying out is so not a worry.

A couple of things I'd like to point out though. I think that, far from most guys NOT wanting kids, most guys just don't think about children until they are older and more settled. It's a far, far different thing to think about kids when you're in college or just getting out of it and still enjoying the party life, and another to think about when you've found someone you'd like to share your life with and you're considering building up a future together. I'd also like to point out that, yes, kids are smelly and noisy, and they DO get into trouble (dear God do they get into trouble), but it's amazing how while OTHER kids annoy the hell out of you, YOUR kid does not. Diaper duty is gross... until you've done it for a month or so. Then you don't even blink, and you've learned how to duck quickly. Oh, and finally, yes, you do lose me time and us time, but you also gain time as well. My son and I have spent this summer going for walks around our town (Well, I walk, he gets carried in a carrier or a stroller). It's a guys only affair for just my son and I, and a chance for me to enjoy the world again because everything is still new to him. Besides, there's nothing more rewarding than looking back at him to make sure he's alright and seeing nothing but trust and love in those brown eyes of his.

So don't blow it off guys, it can be the best experience in your life.

True, this.

Yes, I wanted a kid when I was younger and now that I'm older and have one, my view has not changed. In fact, the only thing my wife and I are in disagreement is just how many more we should have. And no, I didn't want one just to carry on my family name. Given how common my last name is, it dying out is so not a worry.

A couple of things I'd like to point out though. I think that, far from most guys NOT wanting kids, most guys just don't think about children until they are older and more settled. It's a far, far different thing to think about kids when you're in college or just getting out of it and still enjoying the party life, and another to think about when you've found someone you'd like to share your life with and you're considering building up a future together. I'd also like to point out that, yes, kids are smelly and noisy, and they DO get into trouble (dear God do they get into trouble), but it's amazing how while OTHER kids annoy the hell out of you, YOUR kid does not. Diaper duty is gross... until you've done it for a month or so. Then you don't even blink, and you've learned how to duck quickly. Oh, and finally, yes, you do lose me time and us time, but you also gain time as well. My son and I have spent this summer going for walks around our town (Well, I walk, he gets carried in a carrier or a stroller). It's a guys only affair for just my son and I, and a chance for me to enjoy the world again because everything is still new to him. Besides, there's nothing more rewarding than looking back at him to make sure he's alright and seeing nothing but trust and love in those brown eyes of his.

So don't blow it off guys, it can be the best experience in your life.

I'll pass, thanks... I hate kids. I don't have the time, patience, or compassion to even consider having one. But most importantly, I see a far too many intelligent parents giving birth to total degenerates... I'd rather die childless than risk having a total degenerate child that puts a black mark on my family's name.

wait, your boyfriend is pressuring you into having kids? Aren't you both like...20?

Hell, you can't even legally drink yet...

Oh, and having kids before you've been married for a while is usually a recipe for disaster. Waiting gives you time to build a solid financial basis, deepen your relationship, and really take the time to make that decision. Putting your kids through a divorce is usually something you want to avoid if possible, so it definitely benefits both parties to wait until they've truly affirmed their commitment to one another.

I'll pass, thanks... I hate kids. I don't have the time, patience, or compassion to even consider having one. But most importantly, I see a far too many intelligent parents giving birth to total degenerates... I'd rather die childless than risk having a total degenerate child that puts a black mark on my family's name.

I'm exactly the other way round. I couldn't care less about 'family names' or 'black marks'. Literally. I could try, but I could not care, even a little, less.

In my estimation, your assumptions are flawed. "intelligent parents giving birth to total degenerates" is something of a fallacy. From what I've seen, the degenerate offspring are evidence of degenerate parents, juvenille delinquency is rooted in adult deliquency - that kind of thing.

I'm not saying good parents can't pop out the occassional bad egg, I'm just not accepting the assertion that the parents are blameless and wonderful, and their children all turn out like monsters because they are evil.

Whoo, adoption buddy!

Er...yeah...

*runs*

Aye, I'd love to have children. Nice to have yer genes passed on.

I wanna have a son when i'm like 30 but i want a boy and a girl send her to the olympics:)

Hell, you can't even legally drink yet...

Oh, and having kids before you've been married for a while is usually a recipe for disaster. Waiting gives you time to build a solid financial basis, deepen your relationship, and really take the time to make that decision. Putting your kids through a divorce is usually something you want to avoid if possible, so it definitely benefits both parties to wait until they've truly affirmed their commitment to one another.

Correction: I'm 21, he's 22, and we can both legally drink.

And we never intend to have children before we are married (if, indeed, that is what happens). Believe me, I know what I'm getting into.

The problem is that, IIRC, the more educated one is, the less likely one is to want children and have them. So the less or uneducated are the ones breeding like mad. Forgive me if this sounds "elitist", but isn't that a bad thing?

The problem is that, IIRC, the more educated one is, the less likely one is to want children and have them. So the less or uneducated are the ones breeding like mad. Forgive me if this sounds "elitist", but isn't that a bad thing?

Someone's been watching Idiocracy :p

Brawndo will make you WIN at YELLING!

The problem is that, IIRC, the more educated one is, the less likely one is to want children and have them. So the less or uneducated are the ones breeding like mad. Forgive me if this sounds "elitist", but isn't that a bad thing?
I would have to mention that "educated" doesn't equal intelligent, good, or, at that, good for the mankind.

For God's sake.


Wilgrove, listen carefully.


Stop coming to conclusions about yourself or people in your life and then making these fucking generalizations that they apply to everyone. And even if you wont do that, for fucks sake stop making threads about them.


No. The conclusion that "most men dont want children" is utter bullshit. Sorry, Wilgroves opinion does not instantly translate into fact, and Wilgroves feelings do not insantly become the feelings of all. Nor do the feelings of Wilgrove's ladyfriends become the feelings of all women.



God. Fucking. Damn it.


EDIT: I should say this before anyone says "So dont open his threads!" I keep opening them because they have misleading titles. I open them thinking they willbe legit discussions or polls based off an article. Hell, even if they were just a question, thatd be fine. But no. They are always hidden ways for him to state this random new "fact" hes discovered, act like they are a universal truth, and then make a poll with the goal of reinforcing his view. Which, shockingly, they never do.

sweet jesus no. I am far too selfish of a person to even think about putting up with them. I like making me happy and getting what I want. Kids would just get in the way of that.

Ok, so I came to the conclusion that majority of men do not want children. They only want it because either it's what their Significant other wants, or it's whats society expects of them. However, there is a challenge to my theory, that most guys do want children, especially a boy, so that the family name lives on.

NSG is kind of a good cross section of society, I'm running this survey on other forums as well.

Personally I do not want children, I don't see any point in having children outside of the fact that we apparently never grew out of "Playing house" stage of our childhood. Children are loud, annoying, and they stink worse than a truck stop's toilet that hasn't been flushed in God who knows how long.

Plus, I think my children would be twisted.

So men of NSG, take the survey!

Bwhahahahah ohhh ohh Wilgrove, man you make me laugh.

I'm afraid to say that your words above seem naive in the extreame to me. Can I ask how old you are?


To my mind, I find that the majority of men would like to be fathers. Now umm how do we sort out which sweeping generlisation is the correct one I wonder?

However keeping with generalisatons, I would say that there are several reasons that most men want kids.

To keep the family name sure, but more importantly to maintain your genetic stock, its a drive that all life has after all.

As to kids, yes they can be loud, annoying, and stinky, but then they can also be asleep, cute, and loving.:D

you need to have a serious talk with your boyfriend. if you dont want children and he does and you dont think that either of you will change, you should let him go.

Or wait until you do want kids. Come on now couples can disagree and still be together. So what if your wants do not coincide at the same time, things change, people change, it seems stupid to me to end a realtionship because of such stuff.

The problem is that, IIRC, the more educated one is, the less likely one is to want children and have them. So the less or uneducated are the ones breeding like mad. Forgive me if this sounds "elitist", but isn't that a bad thing?

It's not elitist nor a bad thing, it is totaly wrong though.

I'm a woman who doesn't particularly want children, dating a man who is 100% sure he wants children within the next five years.

Wilgrove, please add me to the list of people who think you really need to grow up and get out of middle school. This boys vs. girls generalization crap is pathetic.

Dogs can fulfill your needs just as well if not better.

and they're much better than children, they don't have the rebellious phase.

You have obviously never met my dog.

Or wait until you do want kids. Come on now couples can disagree and still be together. So what if your wants do not coincide at the same time, things change, people change, it seems stupid to me to end a realtionship because of such stuff.

Ehh, but what if the guy finds someone who wants kids while his girlfriend doesn't. If he's a decent guy, he'd either A. do the right thing and break up with his girlfriend to be with the new gal, or B. Stay with the girlfriend and hope she'll change her mind down the road.

Personally I'd go with option A. Because Option B happens less often. By the time you're in your mid 20's to 30's you kinda have a pretty good idea on whether or not you want kids.

The problem is that, IIRC, the more educated one is, the less likely one is to want children and have them. So the less or uneducated are the ones breeding like mad. Forgive me if this sounds "elitist", but isn't that a bad thing?

While that may be true, most of the time, I have met a few "uneducated" people who don't want children.

Personally I'd go with option A. Because Option B happens less often. By the time you're in your mid 20's to 30's you kinda have a pretty good idea on whether or not you want kids.

Bwahahahah ohh really? So there is no scope for anybody to change their minds after they have passed the magical age of 20?

You know I know plenty of 40 year olds, shit and some few 50 years olds that still have no idea what they want from life, what makes you think that you just stop changing after 20?

A couple of things I'd like to point out though. I think that, far from most guys NOT wanting kids, most guys just don't think about children until they are older and more settled. It's a far, far different thing to think about kids when you're in college or just getting out of it and still enjoying the party life, and another to think about when you've found someone you'd like to share your life with and you're considering building up a future together.

I think you're dead to rights there.

Bwahahahah ohh really? So there is no scope for anybody to change their minds after they have passed the magical age of 20?

You know I know plenty of 40 year olds, shit and some few 50 years olds that still have no idea what they want from life, what makes you think that you just stop changing after 20?
Gotta say I really agree with this.

I started dating my current partner around age 20 (don't remember precisely when it was), and I was quite positive I did not want children. We've been together for years and I've gone from "Never, no children, babies = bad" to "Maybe, as long as I get to name the baby Thor and teach her to kick box."

I know that I could live a happy and fulfilled life without ever having kids. However, I also know that my partner couldn't. And the longer I'm with him the more he has helped show me that having kids with him wouldn't necessarily prevent me from having a happy and fulfilled life, either.

We've agreed that if I'm still not willing to have a kid by the time we're 30 then we'll break things off. The reasoning is that he knows he would like to have a biological kid, and after about age 35 it starts being less medically safe to do so, which means we do have a bit of a time limit. But there's no reason for us to break things off at this point, since we're nuts about each other and he doesn't want to actually have his first kid until age 30 at the earliest.

There's really no need to rush this kind of thing, as long as you are both honest and willing to talk about the subject.

Personally I'd go with option A. Because Option B happens less often. By the time you're in your mid 20's to 30's you kinda have a pretty good idea on whether or not you want kids.
Hmmm, nope. No, can't say that I agree with you there. Mid-20s usually finds most guys still on the party scene, perhaps out of college, perhaps not, but usually not seriously with someone (Always exceptions to the rules of course). By mid 30's, perhaps, but, as I noted, it always depends upon whom you're with.

I always planed on having kids. My best friend went through life swearing he never would. He's now in his mid-30's (Dear God, we're getting old) and married and is seriously considering having them now.

Bwahahahah ohh really? So there is no scope for anybody to change their minds after they have passed the magical age of 20?

You know I know plenty of 40 year olds, shit and some few 50 years olds that still have no idea what they want from life, what makes you think that you just stop changing after 20?

Because people tend to change less often as they get older. Basically by the time you hit your 30s, you're pretty much the person you're going to be, personality wise. Which is why I never understand why some women try to change men. Heh, it's just not going to happen.

Basically by the time you hit your 30s, you're pretty much the person you're going to be, personality wise.
On what grounds?

For many people, that's not even half of their life. People change all the time. There may be certain traits that some people never get rid of, but I think the above is fairly unfounded.

Hmmm, nope. No, can't say that I agree with you there. Mid-20s usually finds most guys still on the party scene, perhaps out of college, perhaps not, but usually not seriously with someone (Always exceptions to the rules of course). By mid 30's, perhaps, but, as I noted, it always depends upon whom you're with.


And thus the answer to this question, like the answers to pretty much every single similar question Wilgrove has ever asked, is "You will have to actually fucking talk to other humans as individuals."

Frankly, the absolute worst thing any guy could possibly do when it comes to having kids is to make assumptions about what his partner wants based on her/his gender. Seriously, it's every inch as stupid as assuming that your partner must want kids because she has brown eyes.

And no, talking to other people with brown eyes will not give you any better answer. The fact that some people with brown eyes want babies doesn't tell you jack shit about what your partner wants.

And no, you can't assume that since your partner just celebrated her 25th birthday she now has made up her mind about kids and will never ever change ever. There is no magical deadline for this kind of shit.

You will have to actually talk to individuals if you want to know what those individuals think and feel about kids. There is no shortcut.

I'm exactly the other way round. I couldn't care less about 'family names' or 'black marks'. Literally. I could try, but I could not care, even a little, less.

In my estimation, your assumptions are flawed. "intelligent parents giving birth to total degenerates" is something of a fallacy. From what I've seen, the degenerate offspring are evidence of degenerate parents, juvenille delinquency is rooted in adult deliquency - that kind of thing.

I'm not saying good parents can't pop out the occassional bad egg, I'm just not accepting the assertion that the parents are blameless and wonderful, and their children all turn out like monsters because they are evil.

Well it's cool with me if you don't care about black marks on YOUR family name but to an extremely conservative Hebrew family like mine, dishonoring your family name is almost as bad as cursing the name of God. Had I done anything to violate family tradition or done something else exceptionally foolish, I'd probably be disowned. While I realize it might seem sophomoric to be afraid of such things at twenty-five years old... It's just the mindset I was raised with.

I never said it was as sure a thing as the sun rising in the morning, i.e. intelligent parents having totally moronic children... But I've seen it happen to far too many people... My boss is one. My boss is a brilliant professor of history, his wife is an accountant, but their 17 year old son is a total moron. My boss gave the kid a car... He totaled it the very next day, he hasn't made anything above a C in any of his high school classes, he scored very low on his ACT's, and he can't go a day without getting in trouble at school (for stupid stuff, not even fighting or anything like that)... Granted, his younger son does very well in school but, at least in my family, the burden is upon the oldest to set the bar for the other children.

I agree that many parents are absolutely terrible and that's why their kids are a total nightmare... As for me, I'd probably be an extremely overbearing father, to the point where my children would probably hate my guts and never speak to me again after high school. But, I probably won't have children... I don't even want the POSSIBILITY of the rotten apple falling off my branch of the family tree. The best way to ensure success in that regard is to not have children at all.

It will miss my wonderful genes. :(

Do you have borthers/sisters? Most of your genes wouldn't be lost if you keep them alive...

I think you're dead to rights there.
Thank you. I always have the truth of the matter. You guys just don't listen. :p:wink:

... I'm gonna get hit now, aren't I? ;)

Because people tend to change less often as they get older. Basically by the time you hit your 30s, you're pretty much the person you're going to be, personality wise. Which is why I never understand why some women try to change men. Heh, it's just not going to happen.
Uh... not from my experience. The man I am now, who is just a month away from his 30th, is quite different from the college grad who took his last walk on the Quad a bit over 4 years ago and would be unrecognizable to the Freshman who entered college 11 years ago. Some of my personality traits have remained a constant, such as a sarcastic bite to my temper or an off kilter sense of humor, but my experiences have changed a great deal about me as well.

But, in any case, the decision to have children or not is not something I would label as a part of your personality. Liking children might be, but as I said, that hardly matters as it's a world of difference when it's YOUR child as opposed to someone else's brat.

Well it's cool with me if you don't care about black marks on YOUR family name but to an extremely conservative Hebrew family like mine, dishonoring your family name is almost as bad as cursing the name of God.


Extremely conservative Hebrew family?

Then you're creating a black mark, just by not having children - no matter how they might have turned out.


Had I done anything to violate family tradition or done something else exceptionally foolish, I'd probably be disowned. While I realize it might seem sophomoric to be afraid of such things at twenty-five years old... It's just the mindset I was raised with.


That's probably about the last time I saw any of my family - thinking about it. At some point you have to live your own life, rather than someone else's. No matter what upbringing. Will I still be in contact with my kids when they are 25? I hope so. Will I be in contro? God - I hope not.


I never said it was as sure a thing as the sun rising in the morning, i.e. intelligent parents having totally moronic children... But I've seen it happen to far too many people... My boss is one. My boss is a brilliant professor of history, his wife is an accountant, but their 17 year old son is a total moron.


Your boss may be a "brilliant professor of history", and his wife may be an "accountant" - but neither of those makes you, implicitly, a good parent. If their first kid turned out to be a bad kid, there's a pretty good chance they fucked up.


My boss gave the kid a car... He totaled it the very next day, he hasn't made anything above a C in any of his high school classes, he scored very low on his ACT's, and he can't go a day without getting in trouble at school (for stupid stuff, not even fighting or anything like that)... Granted, his younger son does very well in school but, at least in my family, the burden is upon the oldest to set the bar for the other children.


Which is what? Good? Bad?

You're complicit through your silence.


I agree that many parents are absolutely terrible and that's why their kids are a total nightmare... As for me, I'd probably be an extremely overbearing father, to the point where my children would probably hate my guts and never speak to me again after high school. But, I probably won't have children... I don't even want the POSSIBILITY of the rotten apple falling off my branch of the family tree. The best way to ensure success in that regard is to not have children at all.

Well, if you think you'd be a bad parent, it's not a bad idea to stop having kids. If your heart's not in it, you WILL be a bad parent.

But, not having kids because you are scared of what your parents might one day say? Some of the things we see in other people are qualities we recognise in our selves... and some of those, we seek to emulate, and some, we seek to mitigate. A person can be the kind of person (the kind of parent) they CHOOSE to be. You're not 'destined' to be a remote parent just because your dad was, for example.

Because people tend to change less often as they get older. Basically by the time you hit your 30s, you're pretty much the person you're going to be, personality wise. Which is why I never understand why some women try to change men. Heh, it's just not going to happen.

Sorry mate, I gota call bull shit on that one.

I can count and define exactly what changes have occoured to myself and in which decade of my life.

Honestly I am far, far removed from the young man I was in my 20's, and far removed from the older man I was in my mid 30's.

Change my freind never stops, belive me never, you and I and everybody else will continue to change and grow as we age.

Wow, that'd be about as awkward as your wife finding an ex-girlfriend's name tattooed on your private area during your honeymoon.
It'd be even more awkward if you found out your partner couldn't get pregnant because they used to be a male :p (note: This has not happened to me).

I'm twenty now, and go through phases of thinking I'd like children, then basically dimissing the possibility because I suck with children now. I think basically the same thing about taking a teacher training course. It all depends if I grow up or not. :p

I'm a man and I do want children.
I don't care about the "family name going on": as a matter of fact, my children will carry a new family name, formed by my own and my fiancee's family name.

Because people tend to change less often as they get older.
Not entirely sure about that.
Basically by the time you hit your 30s, you're pretty much the person you're going to be, personality wise.
Then how do you explain the personality changes during midlife crises and then Being An Old Person, eh?

"Ah hormones is different"?
Which is why I never understand why some women try to change men. Heh, it's just not going to happen.
Heh, shitty generalisations ahoy, surprising as this may sound!

Can I have a kitten instead?

Can I have a kitten instead?
Only if you're prepared for endless 'cat person' jokes/assumptions.

Gotta say I really agree with this.

Now damn me Bottle, you agreeing with me, my I feel a little faint, wheres my coffee....?:D

As for me? I'd like to wait until my siblings have children, and see how well I can be with them for I take the plunge (it helps that I'm still young).

The problem is that, IIRC, the more educated one is, the less likely one is to want children and have them. So the less or uneducated are the ones breeding like mad. Forgive me if this sounds "elitist", but isn't that a bad thing?

I'm definitely not uneducated or dumb, and I want at least two kids when I'm older (I'm currently 20). I wouldn't mind having as many as six, though there are always monetary concerns with that high of a number.

And yeah, I'm a guy.

Extremely conservative Hebrew family?

Then you're creating a black mark, just by not having children - no matter how they might have turned out.

Your boss may be a "brilliant professor of history", and his wife may be an "accountant" - but neither of those makes you, implicitly, a good parent. If their first kid turned out to be a bad kid, there's a pretty good chance they fucked up.

But, not having kids because you are scared of what your parents might one day say? Some of the things we see in other people are qualities we recognise in our selves... and some of those, we seek to emulate, and some, we seek to mitigate. A person can be the kind of person (the kind of parent) they CHOOSE to be. You're not 'destined' to be a remote parent just because your dad was, for example.

Actually I've made that quite clear to my father that I don't want children and he mostly just scoffs and says, "Yeah I said the same thing when I was your age and now look at me.... If you can go your whole life without having children you should get a Klondike Bar." My mother mostly gives me a look and tells me that's more for my wife to decide than me... Lucky for me I'm dating someone who hates children even more than I do, unfortunately she's a gentile.

Well considering my boss's younger son has turned out alright thus far (and he's only two years younger than the older son), I don't think it's their parenting.. Some kids go sour by themselves.

As far as children screwing up, my parents aren't what I'm concerned about... It's me and my reputation in that regard... Ill behaved children tend to besmirtch the image of the parents.

You talk of assumptions and yet you assume that my father was remote... I may be my father's son but I have my own personality.

Lucky for me I'm dating someone who hates children even more than I do, unfortunately she's a gentile.
Err?

If she said "hurrah I'm going out with someone who also doesn't want to have kids, shame he's a Jew", I think people would be pretty pissed at her.

Seriously, why is it bad that she's a gentile?

No, and I got a vasectomy to prove it.

If she said "hurrah I'm going out with someone who also doesn't want to have kids, shame he's a Jew", I think people would be pretty pissed at her.

I’m not so sure. All he said was that it’s a shame that she’s not jewish. Maybe his partner being jewish is important to him and his family. Religious compatability is important for some people. It’s not at all uncommon to hear someone say “I really like him, I just wish he was a Christian.”

I’m not so sure. All he said was that it’s a shame that she’s not jewish. Maybe his partner being jewish is important to him and his family. Religious compatability is important for some people. It’s not at all uncommon to hear someone say “I really like him, I just wish he was a Christian.”Reminds me of some of the advice in the Biblezine I got for Christmas a while back. "Don't fall in love with people that aren't Christian. They'll just put a wedge between you and Christ."

Reminds me of some of the advice in the Biblezine I got for Christmas a while back. "Don't fall in love with people that aren't Christian. They'll just put a wedge between you and Christ."

Mmmmpphhhtaaabwahahahha!

Ohh deary me I do applogise.

It's not elitist nor a bad thing, it is totaly wrong though.

How so? Idiots multiplying and non-idiots more likely to choose not to multiply?

Because people tend to change less often as they get older. Basically by the time you hit your 30s, you're pretty much the person you're going to be, personality wise. Which is why I never understand why some women try to change men. Heh, it's just not going to happen.

:headbang: Several people patiently explaining to you that your singular, isolated experiences do not constitute anything remotely close to the world as it is, and yet you continue to spew this kind of generalist horseshit. It's almost like you post and post here and never actually read any of the replies for comprehension.

Not understanding why women change men is perhaps the only semi-solid leg you've got to stand on. However, that's weakened by this: if you fell in love with someone who had a trait or habit that threatened his or her very life on a regular basis, surely you'd at least think about getting them to stop. Say, smoking, overeating, sedentary life, what-have-you. The rest is crap and applies only to those who look around and honestly come to the conclusion that everything's peachy and they needn't change a single tiny thing.

Now, YOU MAY HAVE MET a COUPLE of people like that, but I assure you you've not met enough to threadsturbate pearl necklaces of false wisdom.

I'm definitely not uneducated or dumb, and I want at least two kids when I'm older (I'm currently 20). I wouldn't mind having as many as six, though there are always monetary concerns with that high of a number.

And yeah, I'm a guy.

Yay! More thoughtful children with thoughtful parents!

Actually I've made that quite clear to my father that I don't want children and he mostly just scoffs and says, "Yeah I said the same thing when I was your age and now look at me.... If you can go your whole life without having children you should get a Klondike Bar." My mother mostly gives me a look and tells me that's more for my wife to decide than me... Lucky for me I'm dating someone who hates children even more than I do, unfortunately she's a gentile.


Not having children would still be a black mark, whether it is you or your wife that decides, if yo're really that orthodox. As would marrying a gentile.

Which suggests that reason might be something of an excuse.


Well considering my boss's younger son has turned out alright thus far (and he's only two years younger than the older son), I don't think it's their parenting.. Some kids go sour by themselves.


Maybe they got better at parenting after they messed up the first one?

I'm not saying it's so - this is all just speculation, right?


As far as children screwing up, my parents aren't what I'm concerned about... It's me and my reputation in that regard... Ill behaved children tend to besmirtch the image of the parents.


So - you're so conservative yourself? Not the family you come from - it's your own name you're worried about?

Again - in such orthodox circles, wouldn't your gentile girl actually be besmirching your image?

For me - it's irrelevent. I always said I'd be with whoever I loved, and if my family had problems with that, then those were their problems, not mine.


You talk of assumptions and yet you assume that my father was remote... I may be my father's son but I have my own personality.

I made no such assumption. I stated an example (and even expressly stated it was an example). NOW, I'm making that assumption.

When I was in college I didn't want any ,I have two childern now and wouldn't trade them for anything in the world. It is so cool as they start learning things and ask you all kinds off questions. There is nothing like it. I want to have more also.

Most people have children as a form of immortality. Considering the damage seven billion people are doing to this planet, it seems a little selfish. Me, when I'm gone I'm gone. No little quasi-copies running around. One reason or another, the world will thank me for not reproducing.

Besides, too many hereditable disorders run in my family. Heart disease, diabetes, Zollinger-Ellison disease, Alzheimers, various auto-immune diseases and both unipolar and bipolar depression. Why would I pass all the crap to some kid to serve my own vanity?

Most people have children as a form of immortality. Considering the damage seven billion people are doing to this planet, it seems a little selfish. Me, when I'm gone I'm gone. No little quasi-copies running around. One reason or another, the world will thank me for not reproducing.

Besides, too many hereditable disorders run in my family. Heart disease, diabetes, Zollinger-Ellison disease, Alzheimers, various auto-immune diseases and both unipolar and bipolar depression. Why would I pass all the crap to some kid to serve my own vanity?
The same reason most people do - massive hormonal attachment to what was, at the time, basically a terrible accident.

Yay! More thoughtful children with thoughtful parents!

I dunno, I've just got this crazy idea that living in a semi-large house in a city with a big family is something really good. I'm not quite ready to do it yet, and I feel I've got at least four years before I begin to go that way, but I definitely want to do it. Suburbs don't interest me. The middle of nowhere can go fuck itself. A nice townhouse with a pretty big family and lots of people over all the time would be most excellent.

There'd be structure, sure, but not all that much. I can't imagine forcing my kids into sports or martial arts or anything like that if they don't want to do it.

I dunno, I've just got this crazy idea that living in a semi-large house in a city with a big family is something really good. I'm not quite ready to do it yet, and I feel I've got at least four years before I begin to go that way, but I definitely want to do it. Suburbs don't interest me. The middle of nowhere can go fuck itself. A nice townhouse with a pretty big family and lots of people over all the time would be most excellent.

There'd be structure, sure, but not all that much. I can't imagine forcing my kids into sports or martial arts or anything like that if they don't want to do it.

That sounds lovely.

There'd be structure, sure, but not all that much. I can't imagine forcing my kids into sports or martial arts or anything like that if they don't want to do it.
How about forcing them to create a new martial art style?

Toddler Crawl style!

How about forcing them to create a new martial art style?

Toddler Crawl style!

Well, we've got Drunken Master... What about Cokehead Master?

Drunken Master is my favourite martial arts movie of all time.

....
NSG is kind of a good cross section of society, ...

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!1!!!!11 ~~~ Ohmygoodness/ LMButtOFF...


But okay, back on topic... I voted in your poll. I want children (already have some). Creating new life, giving it a name (mostly grandmothers and biblical names etc.,) raising them and seeing life and the grand creation that we have with this universe anew through their eyes, providing and being there to meet their needs and wants as much as possible, struggles and pride of parenthood all around. One of the simple and pure 'purposes' of life.

Drunken Master is my favourite martial arts movie of all time.

It was for me, too, until I discovered Ong Bak.

It's still top ten, I'd say.

Drunken Master is my favourite martial arts movie of all time.

Kong Fu Hustle (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0373074/) :wink:

:headbang: Several people patiently explaining to you that your singular, isolated experiences do not constitute anything remotely close to the world as it is, and yet you continue to spew this kind of generalist horseshit. It's almost like you post and post here and never actually read any of the replies for comprehension.

Not understanding why women change men is perhaps the only semi-solid leg you've got to stand on. However, that's weakened by this: if you fell in love with someone who had a trait or habit that threatened his or her very life on a regular basis, surely you'd at least think about getting them to stop. Say, smoking, overeating, sedentary life, what-have-you. The rest is crap and applies only to those who look around and honestly come to the conclusion that everything's peachy and they needn't change a single tiny thing.

Now, YOU MAY HAVE MET a COUPLE of people like that, but I assure you you've not met enough to threadsturbate pearl necklaces of false wisdom.
:tongue:

Ok, so I came to the conclusion that majority of men do not want children. They only want it because either it's what their Significant other wants, or it's whats society expects of them. However, there is a challenge to my theory, that most guys do want children, especially a boy, so that the family name lives on.

NSG is kind of a good cross section of society, I'm running this survey on other forums as well.

Personally I do not want children, I don't see any point in having children outside of the fact that we apparently never grew out of "Playing house" stage of our childhood. Children are loud, annoying, and they stink worse than a truck stop's toilet that hasn't been flushed in God who knows how long.

Plus, I think my children would be twisted.

So men of NSG, take the survey!


I don't think I could be a good father, I dislike babies, I will never find someone to make a kid with in the first place (joke reason). So no. And there're enough people around already.

Correction: I'm 21, he's 22, and we can both legally drink.

And we never intend to have children before we are married (if, indeed, that is what happens). Believe me, I know what I'm getting into.

I'd have to say I believe you. However, in the end it's something only you two can decide so all the advice in the world can only go so far.

Yes I do want to raise a kid. It doesn't necessarily have to be my biological kid, and a girl or boy would be equally good. (When I was twenty the thought of such commitment horrified me, and at thirty I missed an excellent chance to become a father because I still hadn't come around ... but now, yes.)

I don't accept the "being childless is doing the planet a favour" rigmarole. Anyone who really predicates their personal decisions on the welfare of the whole human race is just the sort of person who should be a parent. More likely its a personal choice, and "doing the planet a favour" no more than a post hoc rationalization.

New scientific evidence in Wilgrove pop-psychology contradiction shocker!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/05/030513075924.htm


For the record, I'm 32, and don't want kids. I can't think of a good enough reason, and I think you need a good one. ("Awww, what a cute little accidental blob of my now-immortal genes" isn't one)

Well, we've got Drunken Master... What about Cokehead Master?

Already done (and in the White House).








What? How else but epic Kung Fu could you explain drunken/coked-out failure at 40 and then President? I mean, sure, it was Wealth-Fu and Connection-Fu, but still.

How so? Idiots multiplying and non-idiots more likely to choose not to multiply?

Wrong as in not correct, it is an incorrect statment, the undereducated are not more prone to breeding then the well educated.

Unless of ocurse you can proove me wrong?

I dunno, I've just got this crazy idea that living in a semi-large house in a city with a big family is something really good. I'm not quite ready to do it yet, and I feel I've got at least four years before I begin to go that way, but I definitely want to do it. Suburbs don't interest me. The middle of nowhere can go fuck itself. A nice townhouse with a pretty big family and lots of people over all the time would be most excellent.

That's exactly how I grew up, and having many siblings about was great when I was a child, and now of course as an adult getting on well with all of my brothers and sisters is even better.

Meh, Rotovia wants kids.

I don't want kids now, and I'm not 100% about some time in the future, but I think I'm more likely to want kids eventually than not.
Meh, Rotovia wants kids.
I approve of all Generalite in-breeding.

I can't wait to have a baby girl. As for my reason... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQbB5TbRUVw)

Yes I do want to raise a kid. It doesn't necessarily have to be my biological kid, and a girl or boy would be equally good. (When I was twenty the thought of such commitment horrified me, and at thirty I missed an excellent chance to become a father because I still hadn't come around ... but now, yes.)

I don't accept the "being childless is doing the planet a favour" rigmarole. Anyone who really predicates their personal decisions on the welfare of the whole human race is just the sort of person who should be a parent. More likely its a personal choice, and "doing the planet a favour" no more than a post hoc rationalization.You have a point. When you get down to the core of the issue, the personal reason I don't have kids is that I'd be a horrible parent. At my age I can still barely manage to take care of cats.

And don't give me the standard "you'll feel differently when it's your own kid. You mature so much once you have kids." Whether because I'm mentally ill or because I'm immature, I'd make a bad parent. I have enough guilt issues. I don't need to screw up some kids life to disprove societal maxims.

You have a point. When you get down to the core of the issue, the personal reason I don't have kids is that I'd be a horrible parent. At my age I can still barely manage to take care of cats.

And don't give me the standard "you'll feel differently when it's your own kid. You mature so much once you have kids." Whether because I'm mentally ill or because I'm immature, I'd make a bad parent. I have enough guilt issues. I don't need to screw up some kids life to disprove societal maxims.

I wish more people were smart like you and didn't cave into society pressure. There are millions of kids in America in less than human conditions because people just pop them out without thought. While you would probably provide a much better home for them than what they are in, you know enough to not put a kid in a situation that you wouldn't want to be in.

Wrong as in not correct, it is an incorrect statment, the undereducated are not more prone to breeding then the well educated.

Unless of ocurse you can proove me wrong?

I was asking for clarification, Peeps, you didn't have to act like a douchebag about it.

I do need to make an adjustment, though. A quick Google search showed me more studies that were aimed at determining that education level had more to do with unplanned pregnancies than planned ones. That said, many of them also included language that reflected the education levels of such unplanned children are far more likely to be low than high.

My initial statement in and of itself is not wholly correct, but the upshot is still there. What I should have said was that the idiots are breeding indiscriminately. The connection could then be made to there being more idiots overall should such trends continue.

I don't need to screw up some kids life to disprove societal maxims.I know what you mean. I had this idea of adopting a kid, giving it a gender-neutral name, and not telling anyone what sex the kid is, and acting like anyone who asks is a pervert.
Of course, when kindergarten comes and s/he doesn't know which public restroom to use, there'll be issues.

I wish more people were smart like you and didn't cave into society pressure. There are millions of kids in America in less than human conditions because people just pop them out without thought. While you would probably provide a much better home for them than what they are in, you know enough to not put a kid in a situation that you wouldn't want to be in.

And therein lies the rub.

People who make the decision to not propogate, based on an uunderstanding of their own limitations - are actually better qualified to be parents because of that, than a lot of the people who are popping out kids because... well, often just 'because'.

And therein lies the rub.

People who make the decision to not propogate, based on an uunderstanding of their own limitations - are actually better qualified to be parents because of that, than a lot of the people who are popping out kids because... well, often just 'because'.

Careful with that talk, Peepelonia will be demanding proof.

Careful with that talk, Peepelonia will be demanding proof.

Of the 'just because' bit? I'd imagine you could get proof of that easily enough by hitting almost any rural town in the US, and stopping random people for a statistical response.

The 'people who are responsible about their own limitations' bit? I hate to use the 'it's self-evident' argument, so - I'll find a parallel: If I'm hiring someone for a job, and the first candidate thinks he's six foot six and bulletproof, and can do absolutely anything... and the other candidate is aware that his statistical analysis is a bit weak, but he's pretty good in all the other areas I want? I'll pick the person who knows their limitations.

Because I haven't really met that many guys who's long term plan is "have children".

In other words, you take a very small sample of an extremely large and varied group and assume from that sample that the vast majority of the group possesses the traits the sample does despite large amount of evidence to the contrary?

I can see why you're a Libertarian.

Me, I'm male. I would like children. Specifically, one. A daughter.

You have a point. When you get down to the core of the issue, the personal reason I don't have kids is that I'd be a horrible parent. At my age I can still barely manage to take care of cats.

And don't give me the standard "you'll feel differently when it's your own kid. You mature so much once you have kids." Whether because I'm mentally ill or because I'm immature, I'd make a bad parent. I have enough guilt issues. I don't need to screw up some kids life to disprove societal maxims.

Heh but the truth of the matter is that kids do make you grow up faster. One of my sisters is epelectic and has the mental age of about 15 years old, she has recently had her second child, and I have to say since she become a mother her head is much, much better, and she has become about as fully rounded as she is able to .

I was asking for clarification, Peeps, you didn't have to act like a douchebag about it.

I do need to make an adjustment, though. A quick Google search showed me more studies that were aimed at determining that education level had more to do with unplanned pregnancies than planned ones. That said, many of them also included language that reflected the education levels of such unplanned children are far more likely to be low than high.

My initial statement in and of itself is not wholly correct, but the upshot is still there. What I should have said was that the idiots are breeding indiscriminately. The connection could then be made to there being more idiots overall should such trends continue.

Fair doos, and if you think my mild words above are douchbaggish, then I guess I'm a douchbag *shrug*

Careful with that talk, Peepelonia will be demanding proof.

I demand proof of that!:D

In other words, you take a very small sample of an extremely large and varied group and assume from that sample that the vast majority of the group possesses the traits the sample does despite large amount of evidence to the contrary?

I can see why you're a Libertarian.

Ever feel like you're trying to sop up the Atlantic with a Q-Tip™?

Ever feel like you're trying to sop up the Atlantic with a Q-Tip™?

Quite often. Quite often.

I had a panel of "expert psychoologists" (they subscribe to Psychology Monthly) tell me my reasons for wanting children seems to stem from my Dad's failure to raise us properly and wanting to prove that I'm a better than than he ever was.

I don't have any logical reason for wanting to have children. It's like some sort of instict........ like wanting to get laid

I had a panel of "expert psychoologists" (they subscribe to Psychology Monthly) tell me my reasons for wanting children seems to stem from my Dad's failure to raise us properly and wanting to prove that I'm a better than than he ever was.

I don't have any logical reason for wanting to have children. It's like some sort of instict........ like wanting to get laid.

Well, one thing does lead to the other in that case, eh?

I'm may be only 13, but I already know that I don't want children.

The main reason is that there's a vicious circle that goes back generations. I don't want to inflict that on anyone.

I don't mind getting married, although, just to make sure nothing happens, I'd probably never have sex with her. But I'll be able to live with that :D

*Prepares to be bombarded with tomatoes*

I'm may be only 13, but I already know that I don't want children.

The main reason is that there's a vicious circle that goes back generations. I don't want to inflict that on anyone.

I don't mind getting married, although, just to make sure nothing happens, I'd probably never have sex with her. But I'll be able to live with that :D

*Prepares to be bombarded with tomatoes*

Yeah, I think she'd probably divorce you..

*Prepares to be bombarded with tomatoes*
Why would we do that? We'll just inject you with hormones when you're 18!

Why would we do that? We'll just inject you with hormones when you're 18!

It's legal when you're 16 here.

Forget I said anything. :tongue: