NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been thinking alot lately, and two questions crossed my mind, so I figured I'd let them run free. The first one is aimed at women, and the second question at men, but feel free to chime on both.

1: Women, at what point is being a virgin no longer cool/good?
2: Men, at what point is dating a virgin no longer cool/good?

I've been thinking alot lately, and two questions crossed my mind, so I figured I'd let them run free. The first one is aimed at women, and the second question at men, but feel free to chime on both.

I'll answer both.

1: Women, at what point is being a virgin no longer cool/good?

14.

2: Men, at what point is dating a virgin no longer cool/good?

86.

I think I got these from the Bible, I could be going a bit old for the girl and a bit young for the guy but as rough estimations I think they're on the mark.

As an answer for question number two, that is the point at which you start breaking age of consent laws. Then it might be a good idea to dial it back a notch.

1. It's never uncool to be a virgin. It's personal choice, personal desire and is as cool as you want it to be.

2. If relationships are a matter of conquest, then being first is cool. If relationships are a matter of caring for the other, then her needs and wants are what's cool.

It's never uncool to be a virgin.

lies. if you live an average lifespan, then for most of your life it is most definitely uncool to be a virgin. and for that matter, it isn't really ever cool to be one. nobody would ever honestly say something to the effect of "jane the second grader is so cool because she is a virgin." it would be ludicrous.

there is an age range where being a virgin is expected and appropriate, and not being one is almost certainly the sign of some serious abuse. then there is an age range where it is ok to be one or not. and then there is the rest of your time, where you'll need a pretty good excuse for not partaking in human sexuality to not lose major cool points on the scoreboard of life.

lies. if you live an average lifespan, then for most of your life it is most definitely uncool to be a virgin. and for that matter, it isn't really ever cool to be one. nobody would ever honestly say something to the effect of "jane the second grader is so cool because she is a virgin." it would be ludicrous.

there is an age range where being a virgin is expected and appropriate, and not being one is almost certainly the sign of some serious abuse. then there is an age range where it is ok to be one or not. and then there is the rest of your time, where you'll need a pretty good excuse for not partaking in human sexuality to not lose major cool points on the scoreboard of life.

So, if someone chooses to be a virgin, for whatever reason (maybe his or her choices as regards mates were poor or maybe they had religious reasons, or maybe the thought of casual sex wasn't particularly stimulating), they are uncool. It's a sorry world where virginity or lack thereof determined acceptability. It was sad a 100 years ago when an unmarried woman had to be a virgin or her life was ruined and it's sad now when a man or a woman has to be sexually active or face ridicule.

So, if someone chooses to be a virgin, for whatever reason (maybe his or her choices as regards mates were poor or maybe they had religious reasons, or maybe the thought of casual sex wasn't particularly stimulating), they are uncool. It's a sorry world where virginity or lack thereof determined acceptability. It was sad a 100 years ago when an unmarried woman had to be a virgin or her life was ruined and it's sad now when a man or a woman has to be sexually active or face ridicule.

We're married, we just don't have sex (http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/sep/08/relationships.healthandwellbeing)

Where did our asexual poster go, I read this and thought there was something to be said for what she used to write, previously I was of the opinion that it was a bit of a whine but we do discriminate, never more so than when the concept is completely alien to us.

Virginity is niether good nor ungood, cool nor uncool. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Nonvirgins are better at sexual intercourse (practice makes perfect), but are far more likely to have some nasty problems, from parasites infecting areas on and/or near the reproductive organs to HIV.

It all depends on how cautious the virgin/nonvirgin wished/wishes to be.

and then there is the rest of your time, where you'll need a pretty good excuse for not partaking in human sexuality to not lose major cool points on the scoreboard of life.

No excuses are needed. No one ever asks or cares, in any case. There is no scoreboard of life after all, and there are no scorekeepers. At least, not in the game a reasonably free mind plays. :tongue:

We're married, we just don't have sex (http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/sep/08/relationships.healthandwellbeing)

Where did our asexual poster go, I read this and thought there was something to be said for what she used to write, previously I was of the opinion that it was a bit of a whine but we do discriminate, never more so than when the concept is completely alien to us.

You're thinking of Chandelier, and I've seen her sporadically, but not recently.

As for the OP, "cool" is a concept that is relentlessly subjective and depends more on perspective and self-image than anything else. It seems to me that acting on anyone else's definition of cool besides your own is a kind of personal surrender that makes my teeth grind just thinking about it. Adding to that notion the additional fact that virginity is an intensely personal thing, succumbing to whatever the richest/loudest/most popular people believe on such a topic seems so stupid as to actually smell stupid.

I wasn't ready until I was 21, and looking back, I'm not sure I was then. Not for lack of effort, but there was something out there that knew I wasn't ready when I was a massively horny teenager, and whether that was God or some other higher-energy force in life, I thank it profusely. If the jock assholes (notice the use of "jock" as a modifier, not a category...ah, perspective) knew how much I was fantasizing about their ridiculously hot girlfriends, I'd still have gotten bullied, but "fag" is one (otherwise ubiquitous) epithet they'd never have used on me.

In short, there are "popular" notions about virginity, and there's reality. All you need to do is ask yourself, without judgment if possible, which world you'd rather inhabit. It's less about "right and wrong" than it is how you perceive yourself and how you'd like to be perceived.

I don't believe in virginity.

I don't believe in virginity.

Lunatic Goofballs, I have asked you REPEATEDLY to stop f@%&ing my wife.

Its not funny, its not cute, and its already resulted in one impending bastard child.

For fuck's sake, at least have the goddamn decency to wipe the white grease paint off her thights with a towel or something.

I hate you.

Lunatic Goofballs, I have asked you REPEATEDLY to stop f@%&ing my wife.

Its not funny, its not cute, and its already resulted in one impending bastard child.

For fuck's sake, at least have the goddamn decency to wipe the white grease paint off her thights with a towel or something.

I hate you.

*doubled over in laughter for reasons I can't begin to understand*

1: Women, at what point is being a virgin no longer cool/good?

At the point you feel you'd like to have sex.
2: Men, at what point is dating a virgin no longer cool/good?

When there's a major discrepancy between two people in a relationship and their respective wishes regarding if, or when, or how often, to have sex, then that's uncool/bad.

I've been thinking alot lately, and two questions crossed my mind, so I figured I'd let them run free. The first one is aimed at women, and the second question at men, but feel free to chime on both.

From overhearing the talks of modern youth...

1: Women, at what point is being a virgin no longer cool/good?
11.

2: Men, at what point is being a virgin no longer cool/good?
8.

2: Men, at what point is dating a virgin no longer cool/good?
WTF? Never.

2: Men, at what point is dating a virgin no longer cool/good?

I'm guessing sometime around the fourth date?

I'm wondering if "White grease paint" is an unusual euphemism, or a clown reference.

being a virgin is neither cool nor not cool.

its not even a reasonable concept in the modern age where women have sex without penetration as a common practice.

being a virgin is no longer cool once a woman has reached an age where she is wanting to have sex.

I'm guessing sometime around the fourth date?

Ok, decent question, and given we're talking about normal people, how many dates should it take before you're in bed?

I mean, if someone can't close over a certain amount of dates and we're assuming they're trying to close rather than waiting til marriage...

...at what point does a girl think 'this guy is freaking hopeless'. Should a guy be reasonably confident that where there is a 4th date, he should at least be doing something.

Sure, there's all manner of disclaimers but given they're both interested, given they're not waiting for marriage, how many chances does a guy get?

My current (sorta) bf and I didn't have sex until a couple of months into our relationship. I don't always wait that long, but apparently when I'm not asked more than once this is when I start to ask... and I'm thinking that this isn't a bad thing.

My current (sorta) bf and I didn't have sex until a couple of months into our relationship. I don't always wait that long, but apparently when I'm not asked more than once this is when I start to ask... and I'm thinking that this isn't a bad thing.

Not sure if you'd read my post before this but that's a fairly good reply regardless.

Not sure if you'd read my post before this but that's a fairly good reply regardless.
I did read your reply.

1) To the first question, but applying the answer to both men and women: Being anything is cool to the person being it up until the point they don't want to be it anymore. Then being that thing becomes uncool in their eyes. As for whether it's cool in the eyes of other people, unless it is impacting their life some way, it's none of their business, so who cares?

2) To the second question, also applying it to both men and women: Why should virgin/not virgin matter at all in whom you fuck with? All that matters is that the person is a willing partner of the appropriate age (i.e. not below the legal age of consent).

Both the OP questions assume certain cultural prejudices.

I've been thinking alot lately, and two questions crossed my mind, so I figured I'd let them run free. The first one is aimed at women, and the second question at men, but feel free to chime on both. as a Male...

At what point is being a virgin no longer cool/good? when they (that person, not society) decides being a virgin is no longer cool or good.

Men, at what point is dating a virgin no longer cool/good?
to me, she being a virgin is not part of the 'cool/good' factor. if she is and wishes to remain one untill marriage, then that is her choice and I would respect and honor her choice.

Just as I hope others would respect my choice.

Ok, decent question, and given we're talking about normal people, how many dates should it take before you're in bed?

I mean, if someone can't close over a certain amount of dates and we're assuming they're trying to close rather than waiting til marriage...

...at what point does a girl think 'this guy is freaking hopeless'. Should a guy be reasonably confident that where there is a 4th date, he should at least be doing something.

Sure, there's all manner of disclaimers but given they're both interested, given they're not waiting for marriage, how many chances does a guy get?

What's with the arbitrary pressure and the equally arbitrary number of dates? Seems to me that if one person has that kind of artificial expectation, the problem is with that person. I'd rather any transition to sex be allowed to happen without any scripts or deadlines. Acceding to pressure coming from outside of two peoples' decision to have sex makes no sense to me and removes any sense of spontaneity or naturally-generated chemistry that can lead to some amazing moments if allowed to percolate on its own.

Of course it's easy to tell those who "just can't wait" -- I was one of them, and I swear I must have exuded a pheromone that warned women away when I was younger. My first time came to me when I wasn't relentlessly searching for it...with halogen lamps, bloodhounds, the FBI, GPS and one insistent, flesh-based compass that always pointed.

So, if someone chooses to be a virgin, for whatever reason (maybe his or her choices as regards mates were poor or maybe they had religious reasons, or maybe the thought of casual sex wasn't particularly stimulating), they are uncool. It's a sorry world where virginity or lack thereof determined acceptability. It was sad a 100 years ago when an unmarried woman had to be a virgin or her life was ruined and it's sad now when a man or a woman has to be sexually active or face ridicule.

*applause*

So, if someone chooses to be a virgin, for whatever reason (maybe his or her choices as regards mates were poor or maybe they had religious reasons, or maybe the thought of casual sex wasn't particularly stimulating), they are uncool.

well, maybe they have enough positives to outweigh the negative, so not necessarily. but not ever partaking in human sexuality is weird, and almost always not in a cool and interesting way (though there clearly are some solid excuses for it sometimes). effectively, its a denial of part of what is good in life and a rejection of one of the fundamental experiences and bonding points of human society for no good reason - it's uncool in the same way that refusing to have friends will make one uncool.

2: Men, at what point is dating a virgin no longer cool/good?

It's never particularly cool (or uncool) to date a virgin.

People are people. Their virginity status is very far from the most important thing.

No excuses are needed. No one ever asks or cares, in any case.

no one ever asks because everyone assumes that people live normal lives. but people most certainly do care when they find out somebody above, say, 20 (if not 17) is a virgin. we've had the threads here that demonstrate that. expressions of shock, questioning why, trying to figure out where they went wrong, offers of advice, etc. it's pretty standard.

It's never particularly cool (or uncool) to date a virgin

i don't know, if you are 35 and seeking out virgins, its moving well towards creepy. which is pretty uncool, i think.

I'm a 24 year old virgin. It's not cool or good.

Just be yourself!
This issue is virgin on the ridiculous!

Worrying about whether or not one is a virgin is not particularly cool.

Worrying about whether or not one's partner is a virgin is even less cool.

Honestly, why does it matter?

Sex before eight or it's too late.

And seriously, who cares? If it's that big a deal, just lie about it any I doubt anyone will ever be able to call you on it. That is, of course, unless you're totally unacquainted with any form of sex and couldn't possibly create a convincing lie...in that case, you'll either want to say you're gay or waiting until marriage. Of course, if you're nonreligious that one might be a little hard to pull off but then you could just attack someone for insulting your personal beliefs. Beyond that, I have no idea.

Sex before eight or it's too late.

And seriously, who cares? If it's that big a deal, just lie about it any I doubt anyone will ever be able to call you on it.

Depending on who is asking one could just respond with "Let's find out'.

Possibly kill two birds with one stone then, so to speak.

If it's that big a deal, just lie about it any I doubt anyone will ever be able to call you on it. That is, of course, unless you're totally unacquainted with any form of sex and couldn't possibly create a convincing lie...

then you could just ask the internet. it is always honest and helpful about such things.

then you could just ask the internet. it is always honest and helpful about such things.

Yeah, I mean I have a 12-inch penis and have had sex with 3,000 women on my 30 foot luxury yacht anchored off the coast of Monaco. I'm also a master military strategist, economist and expert on international diplomacy.

Asking the internet this question is about as smart as asking Loveline.

Yeah, I mean I have a 12-inch penis and have had sex with 3,000 women on my 30 foot luxury yacht anchored off the coast of Monaco.

Oh, that was your yacht?

Oops. Sorry.

i don't know, if you are 35 and seeking out virgins, its moving well towards creepy.

True. I was thinking of incidental virginity status--not of "seeking out" one or the other.

I personally started to feel uncomfortable/different about being a virgin around 18. Probably the biggest reason I lost my virginity just after 19. That's me, though, and the pressures--both real and imagined--that I felt. You should be able to choose to have sex or not have sex whenever you want, not on someone else's clock.

That said, I think 25 is the age at which it starts to get slightly awkward, if only in the way that people you date usually expect you to have had sex by then.

I wasn't ready until I was 21, and looking back, I'm not sure I was then. Not for lack of effort, but there was something out there that knew I wasn't ready when I was a massively horny teenager, and whether that was God or some other higher-energy force in life, I thank it profusely. If the jock assholes (notice the use of "jock" as a modifier, not a category...ah, perspective) knew how much I was fantasizing about their ridiculously hot girlfriends, I'd still have gotten bullied, but "fag" is one (otherwise ubiquitous) epithet they'd never have used on me.

I felt kind of the same way in high school. My friends and I rarely talked about sex; I had one boyfriend in four years, another friend had one semi-girlfriend. We never discussed relationships. I knew I wasn't ready to have sex (and lost the boyfriend because of it), and yet inside I was this massive bundle of sexual impulses and urges... It was really confusing.

That said, I think 25 is the age at which it starts to get slightly awkward, if only in the way that people you date usually expect you to have had sex by then.

I'd put it around there, at that point, you either aren't really active in relationships, or have made a choice to remain abstinent. At that point, I'd hazard to say the bulk of the population has lost their virginity.

But then again, that's likely a regional thing. Being a yankee like myself, I have a very different perspective than someone in...say....Missouri might have.

Ok, decent question, and given we're talking about normal people, how many dates should it take before you're in bed?

I mean, if someone can't close over a certain amount of dates and we're assuming they're trying to close rather than waiting til marriage...

...at what point does a girl think 'this guy is freaking hopeless'. Should a guy be reasonably confident that where there is a 4th date, he should at least be doing something.

Sure, there's all manner of disclaimers but given they're both interested, given they're not waiting for marriage, how many chances does a guy get?

I've never understood the whole third/fourth date thing, probably because I've never dated a stranger. Everyone I've dated I've been friends with first. We usually started as friends and then got closer and discovered a sexual attraction along the way, so I never got intimate with anyone I hadn't known at least several months. It seems very weird to me that people might have sex after only actually *seeing* each other three times.

Just be yourself!
This issue is virgin on the ridiculous!

*boos, throws tomatoes*

I felt kind of the same way in high school. My friends and I rarely talked about sex; I had one boyfriend in four years, another friend had one semi-girlfriend. We never discussed relationships. I knew I wasn't ready to have sex (and lost the boyfriend because of it), and yet inside I was this massive bundle of sexual impulses and urges... It was really confusing.

ahh those teenage years, weren't they special

You're thinking of Chandelier, and I've seen her sporadically, but not recently.

She's busy with college.

*random poster update*

I'd put it around there, at that point, you either aren't really active in relationships, or have made a choice to remain abstinent. At that point, I'd hazard to say the bulk of the population has lost their virginity.

But then again, that's likely a regional thing. Being a yankee like myself, I have a very different perspective than someone in...say....Missouri might have.

Even that guess is difficult to tell. When I got to college I assumed, like many people, that I was the only virgin in the entire school (and that some sort of neon script pronouncing that fact lit up on my forehead for everyone to read). It seemed like the moment I lost it, virgins were coming out of the freaking woodwork. All of a sudden tons of my friends were still virgins (though none of them are now)! So much of the anxiety we place on ourselves, it seems.

Even that guess is difficult to tell. When I got to college I assumed, like many people, that I was the only virgin in the entire school (and that some sort of neon script pronouncing that fact lit up on my forehead for everyone to read). It seemed like the moment I lost it, virgins were coming out of the freaking woodwork. All of a sudden tons of my friends were still virgins (though none of them are now)! So much of the anxiety we place on ourselves, it seems.

I think in a very visualized culture we live in, it's easy to presume that everyone is having sex. I was positive I was the only virgin in my school and, given my utterly akward teenage years, was fully convinced I was going to be one forever.

And then I wasn't...

Which, in retrospect, while it was a "holy crap that was cool!" moment, it was also quite likely some of the worst sex I'd ever had.

Even that guess is difficult to tell. When I got to college I assumed, like many people, that I was the only virgin in the entire school (and that some sort of neon script pronouncing that fact lit up on my forehead for everyone to read). It seemed like the moment I lost it, virgins were coming out of the freaking woodwork. All of a sudden tons of my friends were still virgins (though none of them are now)! So much of the anxiety we place on ourselves, it seems.

Indeed. I saw a survey a few years back stating that something like a third of college students never have sex at all during their college years. It's really kind of sad how much pressure we put on ourselves to be in the two-thirds rather than the one-third (or vice versa, in some cases).

And, incidentally, I have a few friends in their late 20s and 30s whom I know have never had sex. Some of them are religious, some just haven't met the right person/people, some are shy - and none of them, in my mind, are weird or bad or anything of the sort because of it. :)

Which, in retrospect, while it was a "holy crap that was cool!" moment, it was also quite likely some of the worst sex I'd ever had.

Sheesh, just because not every girl will let you tie her down and do that thing with the tame goat and the spray cheese, you get all disappointed? Picky, picky.

Sheesh, just because not every girl will let you tie her down and do that thing with the tame goat and the spray cheese, you get all disappointed? Picky, picky.

I had yet to figure out that particular goat trick. It was my first time, wadda ya want?

Oh, that was your yacht?

Oops. Sorry.


Then you know I don't have a 12-inch penis and that I only had sex with those 3,000 women in my on-ship D&D game?

True. I was thinking of incidental virginity status--not of "seeking out" one or the other.

ok, new questions:

is actively looking for a virgin ever 'cool'? is it ever acceptable?
how about the opposite?

ok, new questions:

is actively looking for a virgin ever 'cool'? is it ever acceptable?
how about the opposite?

Wasn't that what the one kid with HIV did in the movie Kids?

is actively looking for a virgin ever 'cool'?

I'd say not. There's an element of control there that is pretty uncool.

is it ever acceptable?

Probably, as long as it is not accompanied by a general prejudice against non-virgins. We aren't responsible for our sexual tastes (very far from completely so, anyway); as long as we express them in ways that are respectful of the freedom of others, I'm not sure it's a good idea to lay down strong prohibitions here.

how about the opposite?

More reasonable, I think, but not particularly ideal either.

no one ever asks because everyone assumes that people live normal lives. but people most certainly do care when they find out somebody above, say, 20 (if not 17) is a virgin. we've had the threads here that demonstrate that. expressions of shock, questioning why, trying to figure out where they went wrong, offers of advice, etc. it's pretty standard.

Funny, I've not seen threads like that here. I think you might be projecting.

Lunatic Goofballs, I have asked you REPEATEDLY to stop f@%&ing my wife.

Its not funny, its not cute, and its already resulted in one impending bastard child.

For fuck's sake, at least have the goddamn decency to wipe the white grease paint off her thights with a towel or something.

I hate you.

Have you considered dressing as a clown yourself? SHe has a thing for clowns, you see.

There is more to being a virgin than having sex, it's a state of mind connected to maturity and sexual awareness. The obnoxious 22-year old who brags about how many he's had, even when "having" is little more than drunken fumbling, is just as much a virgin as the equally obnoxious asexual.

Have you considered dressing as a clown yourself? SHe has a thing for clowns, you see.

Not just clowns either, postmen, milkmen, boy scouts...pretty much anything in a uniform really.

Which, in retrospect, while it was a "holy crap that was cool!" moment, it was also quite likely some of the worst sex I'd ever had.
I second this. If I purely wanted a good first time I wouldn't have fucked another virgin (in retrospect)... but then I had low expectations for it being good going in (I figured it would get better eventually).

Funny, I've not seen threads like that here. I think you might be projecting.

do i really have to go find the various threads on virginity and asexuality over the past few years for you? even when people are being understanding, it is couched in terms of why humans in general find it weird.

i mean, honestly, what made 'the 40 year old virgin' a funny idea?

Which, in retrospect, while it was a "holy crap that was cool!" moment, it was also quite likely some of the worst sex I'd ever had.

My first time was so spectacularly awkward/lame that it almost put me off of sex all together. It was more of a "that's what I've been waiting for?" kind of moment. Virgin + virgin + inebriation + general awkwardness = a bad scene. Thank goodness I gave it another shot with someone who knew, y'know, what to do.

And, incidentally, I have a few friends in their late 20s and 30s whom I know have never had sex. Some of them are religious, some just haven't met the right person/people, some are shy - and none of them, in my mind, are weird or bad or anything of the sort because of it. :)

I guess now that I think of it, I have one friend who's still a virgin. She's incredibly shy. It does seem weird to me when people are virgins into their late twenties and beyond, but I don't think there's any rational reason for this--it's just different and hard for me to understand.

On the other hand, I have another friend who was a "virgin" when we were roommates in college, for religious reasons, but I found out after many late night girl-talks that it was an "everything except..." kind of virginity. It was kind of strange, because I'd had sex once in my life at that point, and she'd had what I considered to be sex (oral, anal, etc) tons of times, but she considered herself to be a virgin and more "chaste" than me.

i mean, honestly, what made 'the 40 year old virgin' a funny idea?
That's a trick question, right? Because there was nothing funny about that too-long, juvenile piece of crap.

I think in a very visualized culture we live in, it's easy to presume that everyone is having sex. I was positive I was the only virgin in my school and, given my utterly akward teenage years, was fully convinced I was going to be one forever.

And then I wasn't...

Which, in retrospect, while it was a "holy crap that was cool!" moment, it was also quite likely some of the worst sex I'd ever had.Similar experiences here. First time sucked, and I can say with certainty it was the worst sex I've ever had. Overall, losing and keeping your virginity is overrated.

That's a trick question, right? Because there was nothing funny about that too-long, juvenile piece of crap.

note that i made no claim about the actual movie, just about the initial idea

Have you considered dressing as a clown yourself? She has a thing for clowns, you see.

"She has a thing for clowns...." The joke is too obvious... but... I... can't... resist...

I'LL SAY SHE DOES!

*skulks away to atone*

do i really have to go find the various threads on virginity and asexuality over the past few years for you? even when people are being understanding, it is couched in terms of why humans in general find it weird.

i mean, honestly, what made 'the 40 year old virgin' a funny idea?

The difference is that people like Chandelier go out of their way to make themselves seem deliberately outcast. Instead of just stating they're virgins and/or aren't interested in sex, they feel the need to wonder, usually in many obtrusive words, why everyone else is. Certainly that would provoke a reciprocal reply as to why they're not. If I'm not interested in someone's thread, I'll either post one short gag or not post anything. Why should virginity/sexuality be any different for those not interested?

Humans find it weird because the overwhelming majority usually do find things that are in a microscopic minority to be weird. That's kinda part of the definition of weird. When "weird" becomes "something to belittle" is where the problem is, but I've just not seen that much genuine antagonism of alternate (or absent) sexualities here. Questions? Yes.

As for your question about the one-trick pony known as Steve Carrell and his nearly amusing film, perhaps it was a funny idea because the film was written as -- wait for it -- a comedy. Call me crazy, but a comedy that doesn't at least hint at funny is probably not going to do well. And if it's not broad and sophomoric enough, it certainly won't do well in the US mass market.

My first time was so spectacularly awkward/lame that it almost put me off of sex all together. It was more of a "that's what I've been waiting for?" kind of moment. Virgin + virgin + inebriation + general awkwardness = a bad scene. Thank goodness I gave it another shot with someone who knew, y'know, what to do.

Which is part of the damned problem. Not enough people talking to each other about damn near ANYthing on this topic + too much alcohol = rotten first experiences...even if one or the other of a pairing is not a virgin.

I guess now that I think of it, I have one friend who's still a virgin. She's incredibly shy. It does seem weird to me when people are virgins into their late twenties and beyond, but I don't think there's any rational reason for this--it's just different and hard for me to understand.

If you don't find it appealing, or you're not ready, you're not going to be a fuck-seeking missile. Is that so hard to understand? We're all different with regard to our perception of the world and our place in it.

On the other hand, I have another friend who was a "virgin" when we were roommates in college, for religious reasons, but I found out after many late night girl-talks that it was an "everything except..." kind of virginity. It was kind of strange, because I'd had sex once in my life at that point, and she'd had what I considered to be sex (oral, anal, etc) tons of times, but she considered herself to be a virgin and more "chaste" than me.

Oh, that kind of crap makes me grind my teeth and spit 'em out. "Comparative sexual morality" is like Scientology without the money.

"Humans find it weird because the overwhelming majority usually do find things that are in a microscopic minority to be weird. That's kinda part of the definition of weird. When "weird" becomes "something to belittle" is where the problem is, but I've just not seen that much genuine antagonism of alternate (or absent) sexualities here. Questions? Yes.

who is talking about belittling or antagonizing? weren't you earlier talking about how other people's valuations of cool don't matter?

As for your question about the one-trick pony known as Steve Carrell and his nearly amusing film, perhaps it was a funny idea because the film was written as -- wait for it -- a comedy.

the 40 year old virgin had a title before it had a script. the concept has the potential for funny independent of actual jokes.

who is talking about belittling or antagonizing? weren't you earlier talking about how other people's valuations of cool don't matter?

Uh...you were? I mentioned it in the context of this legion of posts you're claiming are hostile to asexuals as opposed to just curious about the weird.

As far as "cool" that's the flip-side of "weird". When "cool" decides "weird" is also "undesirable", that's where the problem begins.

the 40 year old virgin had a title before it had a script. the concept has the potential for funny independent of actual jokes.

A potential that was, in my viewing, squandered, but we're not here to debate taste.

Scanning these posts, I can only come to one conclusion = the whole problem comes down to the West's view of virginity as a commodity. God, women have been bought and sold into marriage/concubinage for centuries based on this one "asset." And the asset has to do with one thing, a tiny piece of flesh that in some women never even existed.

Why the Hell does anyone care anymore? If a woman, or a man, wants to remain a virgin, who cares and more to the point, why? Why obsess over it? It's the least important thing to argue about that I can think of.

I've been thinking alot lately, and two questions crossed my mind, so I figured I'd let them run free. The first one is aimed at women, and the second question at men, but feel free to chime on both.

1: Women, at what point is being a virgin no longer cool/good?
2: Men, at what point is dating a virgin no longer cool/good?

I don't think that someone's choice not to have sex has anything to do with being "cool" or "good".

However, without getting into a ridiculous debate, I'll answer your questions...

1. Probably around 21. By that stage, every woman has gone through puberty and is entitled to explore her sexuality. I think that if by age 21 you have not explored your sexuality, it would set you apart from other's your age. But again, the age you have sex is up to you.

2. I think that if two people are in love, age should be no barrier, however, if a man is actively seeking a virgin for his own sexual purposes, and if -hypothetically- a virgin is normally under the age of 21, it's probably not wise for anyone over 29 to be seeking a virgin. Obviously I'm being quite open here, but I guess if it came down to my personal opinion and experience, a virgin is probably around 15, meaning she would be in school. Anyone out of school is probably not suitable. It's moreso about life situations and experience than age. If a girl's still in school, playing hockey and gossiping on lunch breaks, I don't think a man that's much older and more experienced should take advantage of her naivety and sexual inexperience. But from a more...objective perspective, I suppose at age 90 it's still probably "cool" for a guy to have sex with a virgin...


But maybe school girl cosplay is enough to keep men happy. ;)

From overhearing the talks of modern youth...


11.


8.


WTF? Never.

This would be funny... if it were physically possible for an 8 year old male to have sex.

as a Male...

when they (that person, not society) decides being a virgin is no longer cool or good.


to me, she being a virgin is not part of the 'cool/good' factor. if she is and wishes to remain one untill marriage, then that is her choice and I would respect and honor her choice.

Just as I hope others would respect my choice.

I guess I'm going off on a different tangent, but I don't think I would wait for sex until marriage. Sex is an important part of a relationship. What if you get married then it turns out s/he's horrible in bed? Sex is an oppertunity to be intimate with each other, and I think that it would be unfortunate not to be able to share that with someone until a peice of paper is signed. So, I don't think I would personally be with someone who had that belief. I would respect their choice, of course, but I would probably move on.

I wonder whether if a guy said this, everyone would jump on him.

It's never particularly cool (or uncool) to date a virgin.

People are people. Their virginity status is very far from the most important thing.

Agreed.

ok, new questions:

is actively looking for a virgin ever 'cool'? is it ever acceptable?
how about the opposite?

I don't think actively looking for a virgin is "right". I can understand a fettish or a desire, but I think someone who repeatedly seeks out virgins is...well, creepy.

I don't believe in virginity.That's alright. Virginity believes in you.

I guess I'm going off on a different tangent, but I don't think I would wait for sex until marriage. that's your choice. why force your needs on someone who wants to wait?

Sex is an important part of a relationship. no it's not. respect and understanding are more important than sex.

What if you get married then it turns out s/he's horrible in bed? if I get married to a person, it's not because she's great in bed. besides... Practice makes perfect. :tongue:

Sex is an oppertunity to be intimate with each other, and I think that it would be unfortunate not to be able to share that with someone until a peice of paper is signed. there are more ways to be intimate with someone without ripping off your clothes and doing the pre-dawn horizonal insertion.
So, I don't think I would personally be with someone who had that belief. I would respect their choice, of course, but I would probably move on.that's your choice.

Scanning these posts, I can only come to one conclusion = the whole problem comes down to the West's view of virginity as a commodity. God, women have been bought and sold into marriage/concubinage for centuries based on this one "asset." And the asset has to do with one thing, a tiny piece of flesh that in some women never even existed.

Why the Hell does anyone care anymore? If a woman, or a man, wants to remain a virgin, who cares and more to the point, why? Why obsess over it? It's the least important thing to argue about that I can think of.

Completely agreed.

Scanning these posts, I can only come to one conclusion = the whole problem comes down to the West's view of virginity as a commodity. God, women have been bought and sold into marriage/concubinage for centuries based on this one "asset." And the asset has to do with one thing, a tiny piece of flesh that in some women never even existed.

Why the Hell does anyone care anymore? If a woman, or a man, wants to remain a virgin, who cares and more to the point, why? Why obsess over it? It's the least important thing to argue about that I can think of.

'the west'? aren't unmarrried women who are not virgins still looked upon with scorn and contempt in parts of Eurasia and Africa?

'the west'? aren't unmarrried women who are not virgins still looked upon with scorn and contempt in parts of Eurasia and Africa?

Looked upon with scorn and contempt? In some parts of the world, they're killed.

Looked upon with scorn and contempt? In some parts of the world, they're killed.

*nods*

I just am amazed at how quickly people blame "the west".

If a woman, or a man, wants to remain a virgin, who cares and more to the point, why?

people do and because it is a rejection of an important aspect of life. we treat people who reject human companionship and interaction in general similarly. if they don't want to be part of the club, that's up to them, but it does mark them out as different in a fundamental way from the rest of us.

I've been thinking alot lately, and two questions crossed my mind, so I figured I'd let them run free. The first one is aimed at women, and the second question at men, but feel free to chime on both.

1: Women, at what point is being a virgin no longer cool/good?
2: Men, at what point is dating a virgin no longer cool/good?

Well, I'll wade into this thread with a couple of my opinions. The first thing is that it is unfortunate that not many women have commented on the first part of the question; I am quite interested to see what their opinion on it is, especially as it is something that is concerning me.

In terms of the dating a virgin idea, it all depends on age in my opinion. The old rule, if I remember correctly goes half your age plus seven, so assuming that girl's lose their virginity on average at 17 or 18, then it would be acceptable for men up to the age of about 24 to go out with virgins.

My overall opinion is that it would be nice to date and possibly have intercourse with a virgin. At least they wouldn't judge your performance (since they know no better), they wouldn't compare the size of your genitals to that of their other sexual partners, they are tighter than those who have had sex, and since you are their first, at least you will have the appreciation of "conquest" and the knowledge that you would be remembered.

"My bounty is as boundless as the sea; my love as deep
The more I give of thee, the more I have
For both are infinite"
Juliet (the balcony scene).
Juliet was not yet 14 (she would be on Lammas Eve which was August the 1st I think.)
She was ready for it then and so was Romeo. (But it didn't end well for them!)

"My bounty is as boundless as the sea; my love as deep
The more I give of thee, the more I have
For both are infinite"
Juliet (the balcony scene).
Juliet was not yet 14 (she would be on Lammas Eve which was August the 1st I think.)
She was ready for it then and so was Romeo. (But it didn't end well for them!)

Psst! Fiction.

Psst! Fiction.

What was fiction? The play itself or the fact that teenagers can fall in love as deeply as adults.
In the middle ages when this work was set, teenage marriages were the norm - but true love wasn't.:fluffle:

My overall opinion is that it would be nice to date and possibly have intercourse with a virgin. At least they wouldn't judge your performance (since they know no better), they wouldn't compare the size of your genitals to that of their other sexual partners,

When I had sex for the first time I knew that it was terrible. This wasn't because I'd had any better, it was because I got no enjoyment out of it and my then partner's attempts to do things (as brief as these attempts were) were a bit painful. It also lasted all of a minute (maybe) so I knew that better sex had to be possible.
I also knew that his penis was smaller than some other penises, just because I hadn't had sex before doesn't mean I'd never engaged in mutual masturbation.

they are tighter than those who have had sex,

Myth: http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/0912.html
Besides, there are exercises that an experienced woman might know that a virgin might not be aware of that can strengthen vaginal muscles and make the whole thing that much more interesting (i.e. varying tightness).

and since you are their first, at least you will have the appreciation of "conquest" and the knowledge that you would be remembered.

Based on your attitude about it, they'll remember you as that terrible first lay who had a small penis.

Dakini! You should write a column. You're great!

*nods*

I just am amazed at how quickly people blame "the west".

Virginity, within the whole Judeo-Christian metanarrative, is usually equated with purity, morality, temperance, innocence, etc. We're all affected by this to some degree, I think, even if we haven't consciously internalized those values. That's nothing like the point ASD was making (re: the *commoditization* of virginity) but it does speak to the value we in "the West," assign it. In that sense, "the West" can be blamed (or credited) with whatever effect being a virgin or non-virgin has on your psyche, social standing, reputation, etc.


people do and because it is a rejection of an important aspect of life. we treat people who reject human companionship and interaction in general similarly. if they don't want to be part of the club, that's up to them, but it does mark them out as different in a fundamental way from the rest of us.

It's so nice to be reminded what is and isn't important in life. Thank God for those who provide us with that service. :tongue:

Honestly though, if your perception of yourself as sexual, asexual or whatever else is a substantial component of your self-concept, as it often is during adolescence, then it will be important to you. For many people, it simply isn't important. Abstinence isn't a rejection of companionship, human interaction or anything else in itself, so why treat people who abstain from sex in the same way you'd treat someone who abstains from human interaction, companionship, etc.? That doesn't make sense.

Based on your attitude about it, they'll remember you as that terrible first lay who had a small penis.

It's like the Pyrrhic victory of sex.

What was fiction? The play itself or the fact that teenagers can fall in love as deeply as adults.
In the middle ages when this work was set, teenage marriages were the norm - but true love wasn't.:fluffle:

Yes, but you're using a fictional play to make a point about age and virginity as it's now perceived, which is what this thread is about -- not true love (whatever the fuck that's supposed to be) in a fictional past.

A date is never given for the play's setting, only a location (Verona), you're assuming it was the middle ages, when it was more likely contemporary with Shakespeare himself. Renaissance/Elizabethan era. Of course teenage marriages were the norm. Teenagers were middle-aged, given the average life span back then.

So...nice try.

1: Women, at what point is being a virgin no longer cool/good?
2: Men, at what point is dating a virgin no longer cool/good?

In today's capitalistic society, the "coolness" of dating a virgin depends on the amount of time it takes to break it. Surely it is never consider "cool" to just date someone without ever getting laid.

Rather or not you care about such a social trend however is another matter.

It's like the Pyrrhic victory of sex.

It is still a victory though

Besides, there are exercises that an experienced woman might know that a virgin might not be aware of that can strengthen vaginal muscles and make the whole thing that much more interesting (i.e. varying tightness).

However, it isn't the tightness of a virgin, it is a fake tightness brought on to try and please the man. Varying tightness might seem interesting, but from my point of view, it is still fake.

It is still a victory though

So long as she doesn't tell anybody else. Stuff like that gets around one way or another and I don't think you want that kind of reputation.

It is still a victory though

Oh yes, every woman loves being viewed as a conquest.

However, it isn't the tightness of a virgin, it is a fake tightness brought on to try and please the man. Varying tightness might seem interesting, but from my point of view, it is still fake.
Did you follow my link that pointed out that virgin=tight is a myth?
The only thing that really makes women stop being tight anymore is childbirth and even then after a while it goes back to normal. Hell, after a while of monogamy, a woman's vagina will shape itself to the penis of the man she's been having sex with. So really, if you want a tight pussy, find a woman who just broke up with a man who has a small penis (maybe people should be following you around to see who you pick up).

Dakini! You should write a column. You're great!
Haha. I don't think anyone would publish it, I'm sure that there are lots of people out there with lots of sex/advice columns that they don't need one more. :P

It's so nice to be reminded what is and isn't important in life. Thank God for those who provide us with that service. :tongue:

indeed; thanks anthropology and psychology!

indeed; thanks anthropology and psychology!

I'd love to hear how this is supposed to make sense.

Psychologists aren't concerned with finding the single best way to live (naturally, because there isn't one) and anthropologists, perhaps more than anyone, would know that cultural realities vary.

Oh yes, every woman loves being viewed as a conquest.

But of course I wouldn't be foolish to tell anyone that.

Did you follow my link that pointed out that virgin=tight is a myth?
The only thing that really makes women stop being tight anymore is childbirth and even then after a while it goes back to normal. Hell, after a while of monogamy, a woman's vagina will shape itself to the penis of the man she's been having sex with. So really, if you want a tight pussy, find a woman who just broke up with a man who has a small penis (maybe people should be following you around to see who you pick up).

I did, and all it said that women have varying tightness - it did not say, virgins are not tight. Therefore, the comment still stands. Furthermore, it is far easier to find a virgin than a woman who just broke up with a man who has a small penis.

But of course I wouldn't be foolish to tell anyone that.



I did, and all it said that women have varying tightness - it did not say, virgins are not tight. Therefore, the comment still stands. Furthermore, it is far easier to find a virgin than a woman who just broke up with a man who has a small penis.
yeah but a virgin is only a virgin until she isnt.

then she wont be able to provide whatever it is that you want out of virgin sex AND she wont have practiced any vaginal sexual techniques.

But of course I wouldn't be foolish to tell anyone that.

You just did.

I did, and all it said that women have varying tightness - it did not say, virgins are not tight.

It says that women have varying tightness, therefore not all virgins are tight.
Also, your ignorance of female anatomy is surprising, vaginas don't stretch and never return to their original size from regular use.

Therefore, the comment still stands.

No it doesn't.

Furthermore, it is far easier to find a virgin than a woman who just broke up with a man who has a small penis.

If you're trying to have sex with 12 year olds, yes.

You just did.

Dakini, no one on NSG knows who I am in real life, and so mentioning it on this board doesn't matter.

It says that women have varying tightness, therefore not all virgins are tight. Also, your ignorance of female anatomy is surprising, vaginas don't stretch and never return to their original size from regular use.

The first thing, yes women have varying tightness, but remember that refers to all women. You have to accept that virgins tend to be tighter than women that have had sex. Furthermore, I know that vaginas can return to a tighter state, but I highly doubt that it would return to the tightness of a virgin.

No it doesn't.

Unless you can convince me that the paragraph above is flawed, then yes it does.

If you're trying to have sex with 12 year olds, yes.

Isn't the average roughly 17 or 18? If that is true, then that is not an issue. In New Zealand, the age for legal intercourse is 16, and being a 19 year old, I don't think that going out with a 16, 17 or 18 year old is at all problematic.

Dakini, no one on NSG knows who I am in real life, and so mentioning it on this board doesn't matter.

I bet someone could figure it out if they took the time.

The first thing, yes women have varying tightness, but remember that refers to all women. You have to accept that virgins tend to be tighter than women that have had sex.

If you exclude women who gave birth and the elderly from the category of women who have had sex, I doubt there would be any difference. (i.e. if you took samples of both of the same age and children status, you'd probably get similar results).

Furthermore, I know that vaginas can return to a tighter state, but I highly doubt that it would return to the tightness of a virgin.

Because as you have demonstrated, you don't seem to know much about female anatomy.

Unless you can convince me that the paragraph above is flawed, then yes it does.

Did it ever occur to you that some women are extra tight their first time because they're nervous or not proactive enough to ask for sufficient foreplay before intercourse begins?

Isn't the average roughly 17 or 18? If that is true, then that is not an issue.

Last I heard it was 16.

In New Zealand, the age for legal intercourse is 16, and being a 19 year old, I don't think that going out with a 16, 17 or 18 year old is at all problematic.

Because you're a perv (for the 16 and 17 year olds at least).

It is still a victory though



However, it isn't the tightness of a virgin, it is a fake tightness brought on to try and please the man. Varying tightness might seem interesting, but from my point of view, it is still fake.

I take it you date only stupid, ignorant and/or vulnerable women. Given your stated attitude about conquest, no woman who was intelligent, knowledgeable and who had a decent opinion of herself would have anything to do with you.

no one ever asks because everyone assumes that people live normal lives. but people most certainly do care when they find out somebody above, say, 20 (if not 17) is a virgin. we've had the threads here that demonstrate that. expressions of shock, questioning why, trying to figure out where they went wrong, offers of advice, etc. it's pretty standard.

Wanna test that theory out? I'm game.

I'm 18 years old, and a senior in High School. I'm a virgin, and I don't currently have any plans to change that.


A date is never given for the play's setting, only a location (Verona), you're assuming it was the middle ages, when it was more likely contemporary with Shakespeare himself. Renaissance/Elizabethan era. Of course teenage marriages were the norm. Teenagers were middle-aged, given the average life span back then.


That's really not how the average life expectancy worked. Sure, people didn't live to be all that old, but you'd still occasionally find your local octogenarian somewhere. Being 30 didn't make you the village elder or anything.

The real reason for the amazingly low rates back then--and their increase in modern times--is infant mortality rates.

I take it you date only stupid, ignorant and/or vulnerable women. Given your stated attitude about conquest, no woman who was intelligent, knowledgeable and who had a decent opinion of herself would have anything to do with you.

I actually don't date any women at all. The reason behind that is not because of attitudes about conquest (by the way, the comments were not from my perspective, they were looking at it overall; it would be nice to have a conquest, but isn't all that important), but because I have interests that would literally drive any female away, plus I am not of sufficient "hotness" to get anyone aside from a morbidly obese, morbidly ugly person.

Oh, and I am not a homo either, just before anyone asked.

I bet someone could figure it out if they took the time.

Probably; it would be more difficult though, compared with other boards I have posted on.

If you exclude women who gave birth and the elderly from the category of women who have had sex, I doubt there would be any difference. (i.e. if you took samples of both of the same age and children status, you'd probably get similar results).

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this one; you have raised an interesting point and it is one that cannot be easily countered. All I will conclude with is that the people I have spoken to over the last few years have all said virgins tend to be tighter than non-virgins.

Did it ever occur to you that some women are extra tight their first time because they're nervous or not proactive enough to ask for sufficient foreplay before intercourse begins?

No it didn't actually occur to me.

Because you're a perv (for the 16 and 17 year olds at least).

19*0.5 + 7 = 16.5; so I am not a perv.

I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this one; you have raised an interesting point and it is one that cannot be easily countered. All I will conclude with is that the people I have spoken to over the last few years have all said virgins tend to be tighter than non-virgins.

And you have zero experience to base this on? You're just going on what your buddies or "common wisdom" say?

No it didn't actually occur to me.

When a woman isn't doing anything that is sexually stimulating, the vagina is just there in a collapsed sort of manner, when she gets excited, it starts to make room... so it expands. It's not some limitless sort of expansion, but if a woman isn't sufficiently stimulated then she'll be less expanded than otherwise.

19*0.5 + 7 = 16.5; so I am not a perv.
Fuck that, it doesn't count. 16 year olds are midway through high school and you're out of it for a year. The only time it's ok to date someone in high school if you're not in it is if you just graduated and they're graduating next year or you got kicked out but should be in it. You're a perv if you're 19 and trying to pick up 16 year olds.

That's really not how the average life expectancy worked. Sure, people didn't live to be all that old, but you'd still occasionally find your local octogenarian somewhere. Being 30 didn't make you the village elder or anything.

The real reason for the amazingly low rates back then--and their increase in modern times--is infant mortality rates.

Not the point, and I knew all that, but thanks for the historical perspective anyway.

Not the point, and I knew all that, but thanks for the historical perspective anyway.

Sorry, I probably should have figured that.

It's just such a common mistake is all.

Sorry, I probably should have figured that.

It's just such a common mistake is all.

Meh. No harm done.