NationStates Jolt Archive

As I'm sure you know, perjury is a serious crime in most coutnries. But at the same time, so many politicians seem to have a fetish for breaking their campaign promsies. So which would you say is worse?

What's worse: lying for financial gain or lying to avoid jail?

/thread.



LG has put it perfectly, perjury is often motivated by the desire to retaining freedom, false campaign promises by greed. And, so, perjury is quite understandable and its criminality questionable.

How's about coaliting the two: formally put campaign speeches under oath, such that if promises are broken, perjury charges will be profered...

How's about coaliting the two: formally put campaign speeches under oath, such that if promises are broken, perjury charges will be profered...

that's a good idea!

that's a good idea!

except for the fact that the person making the promise isn't the only one in action. The president can't make laws without congress. Congressman X can't reform banking practices without the support of other congressmen.

How's about coaliting the two: formally put campaign speeches under oath, such that if promises are broken, perjury charges will be profered...

it will make the campaign more interesting.

"I will attempt to lower taxes for everyone, I will do my best to bring our troops home, I will endevor to give it my all to impove our standing in the international community..."

Perjury is lying about what happened; breaking campaign promises is lying about what you're going to do. Sometimes it makes sense to break campaign promises because things change. There's never a good reason to commit perjury, though.

that's a good idea!

:D

BTW, I'll point to my first campaign promise over in NS2:

"Vote for me and I'll try my darnedest to boot myself so ya'll don't have to hear me bitch about this stupid region."

How many pols can you name who's sole platform is "vote me off the island"?

except for the fact that the person making the promise isn't the only one in action. The president can't make laws without congress. Congressman X can't reform banking practices without the support of other congressmen.

That's a big part of what I like about the idea. Rep. X can't promise under oat to do Y. Rep. X can couch it in twisty pol language, but they'll have to be ultra careful. :)

That's a big part of what I like about the idea. Rep. X can't promise under oat to do Y. Rep. X can couch it in twisty pol language, but they'll have to be ultra careful. :)

that would leave them nothing more than to sling mud at each other since they really can't 'promise' to do anything.


not saying that would be bad mind you...

it will make the campaign more interesting.

"I will attempt to lower taxes for everyone, I will do my best to bring our troops home, I will endevor to give it my all to impove our standing in the international community..."

Indeed. And such vague promise will be open to hardcore oversite.

"Rep. X, you promised to endevor to lower taxes. You never sponsored a bill specifically to do so. Please explain..."

that would leave them nothing more than to sling mud at each other since they really can't 'promise' to do anything.


not saying that would be bad mind you...

Ah, but the mud slinging would be under oath too.

Rep X: "My opponent, Rep Y, is a dirty SoB!"

Rep Y: " I bathe and my mother was human, not canine. LAWSUIT!"

Ah, but the mud slinging would be under oath too.

Rep X: "My opponent, Rep Y, is a dirty SoB!"

Rep Y: " I bathe and my mother was human, not canine. LAWSUIT!"

... you know... I can picture all the lawyers drooling should that come to pass... :p

Indeed. And such vague promise will be open to hardcore oversite.

"Rep. X, you promised to endevor to lower taxes. You never sponsored a bill specifically to do so. Please explain..."

simple, the Congress, which "promised to work with the president" failed to deliver. a committee is formed to investigate that as we speak." :p

BTW, I'll point to my first campaign promise over in NS2:
NS2 is blasphemy!


How many pols can you name who's sole platform is "vote me off the island"?
Ron Paul went a bit along these lines... Now let's add the promise to disband the party!

I'm used to politicians lying to us, it's what makes them politicians.

So, does it really matter when and where they lie?

Oh loverely. ShitMac has taken away multiquotes, one of the few smart things Jolt did.

NS2 is blasphemy!


no,it isn't!i want beta key!gimme,gimme!

Oh loverely. ShitMac has taken away multiquotes, one of the few smart things Jolt did.

damn, i'm being unobservant recently. when did that happen? presumably at the same time we stopped being able to post the words ****** or ****, i suppose.

I'm used to politicians lying to us, it's what makes them politicians.

So, does it really matter when and where they lie?

well... one is illegal. the other just a very good sales pitch. :p

no,it isn't!i want beta key!gimme,gimme!

While this is wayyy off topic, I got my beta key the other day and I am really underwhelmed. Between the lack of bandwidth issues that blocked the site for most of the first 24 hours I tried to get on, and being forced into a sucky region with a stupid name with no option to move, my initial impression is highly negative. http://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/jolt/icons/icon13.gif

damn, i'm being unobservant recently. when did that happen? presumably at the same time we stopped being able to post the words ****** or ****, i suppose.

Look at the lower right hand corner of this post. The multi-quote button that used to be there has been dissappeared.

And there have been ominous hints about a strict application of shitMAC's version of "PG"...

While this is wayyy off topic, I got my beta key the other day and I am really underwhelmed. Between the lack of bandwidth issues that blocked the site for most of the first 24 hours I tried to get on, and being forced into a sucky region with a stupid name with no option to move, my initial impression is highly negative. http://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/jolt/icons/icon13.gif

yeah,i guess.but it's a beta version and you have to wait.i don't think that NS 1 was as good as t is now while it as a beta.

yeah,i guess.but it's a beta version and you have to wait.i don't think that NS 1 was as good as t is now while it as a beta.
It's not about being a beta... NS2 lacks the RP freedom of NS, yet doesn't deliver the mechanics of a proper global strategic game.

Look at the lower right hand corner of this post. The multi-quote button that used to be there has been dissappeared.

And there have been ominous hints about a strict application of shitMAC's version of "PG"...

the Multi quote removal is recent. I remember doing such yesterday. :(

the Multi quote removal is recent. I remember doing such yesterday. :(

i didn't use it anyway.

the Multi quote removal is recent. I remember doing such yesterday. :(
I think we need a peition thread! *Iz too lazy to do it himself*

i didn't use it anyway.
Bah. You should've.

Hmm... I wonder what would happen if it was a crime for elected officials to be incompetent...

The high vote for 'a poll with no joke options" raises the issue of moral relativity. President got impreach for lying about screwing around and all those prudes that carried on about Clinton lyning under oath were either brainwashed Republicans or brainswashed victims of Republican dominated media. It was shameful that the filthy, dirty Republicans dragged that into Congress in the first place. Look what America ended up with! George W Bush. Boos all round!
Okay, maybe Clinton was stupid lying about it. That's why the 5th Amendnet is there. Personally I would have said, "None of your effing business! Get you stickbeaks out of my genitals!"
In Australia, we had a Prime Minister who would campaign on one thing and then not deliver on it after the election. He said that his campaign contained "core" and "non-core" promises. Well that was straight out lying and treating the electorate with contempt. He has since lost his seat in parliament and good rifddance.
His offence against the public was much worse than Clinton's.

*snip*

Well look who's back. My entertainment for the evening, anything else to say? I suppose you would be one of the brain washed masses who would think that the ALP is going to follow their promises, they have already failed to deliver one to its fullest, and don't intend on doing it anyway.

To the OP, can't you only commit the crime of perjury if you have lied under oath?

If so than while politicians might not fulfill their promises it is not the act of perjury, though one can't be a politician without lying and not fulfilling campaign promises

There's never a good reason to commit perjury, though.

Never say never.

Lack of respect for the public vs. lack of respect for the justice system? Neither one is good. Both are potentially damaging depending on the circumstances.

Bah. You should've.

why?

Lack of respect for the public vs. lack of respect for the justice system? Neither one is good. Both are potentially damaging depending on the circumstances.
i'm not sure that both aren't good, neither has done much to earn my respect.

on a slight tangent, why is it legal for the police to lie to suspects, but illegal for suspects to lie to the police.

i'm not sure that both aren't good, neither has done much to earn my respect.

on a slight tangent, why is it legal for the police to lie to suspects, but illegal for suspects to lie to the police.

It isn't illegal to lie to the police. Your state/country may vary, of course, but it isn't here. It might be illegal to lie to the FBI. I can't remember. And some countries' police forces can't lie to you, supposedly.