NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, a StarGate takes a multi-gigaton bomb to blow it up. Fair enough the thing handles massive amounts of energy to function. Except you do the math and realize that the gate handles orders of magnitude more energy. I figure this out when I was trying to rationalize what happens to thinks that enter the "wrong end" of a wormhole, or get destroyed by the kawoosh.

100lbs of person, rock, whatever, equals 45,359.237 grams of matter converted to energy. For comparison the bomb dropped on Hiroshima converted about 3 grams of matter to energy. The phrase Earth Shattering Kaboom ceases to be meaningful. How much ice did the kawoosh in Continuum shave off of the hull breach in the Achille's? 400, 500lbs? Safe to say the gate would have plenty of power. To wit, the Mark IX bomb is said to be multi-gigaton. Okay, a gigaton is 4.184×10^18 joules of energy. Let's say it's a 5 gigaton blast(209,200,000,000 joules). Matter releases 9×10^16 J/kg of energy. If we assume the gate vaporized an even 400lbs (181.436948 kilograms) the gate would of had to absorb 16,329,325,300,000,000,000 joules. Now I'm no expert, but uh, one of those numbers is waaay bigger than the other. The stargate would of had to absorb orders of magnitude more energy than their "Gatebuster" bomb put out. Think of the two schmucks who vaporized themselves when SG-1 was trapped in that prison cave. Bet they had a combined weight over 400lbs.

Then you have to realize that the gate every use handles way more power than that. A fully loaded puddle jumper probably weighs a couple of tons, ten times the number previous. I mean jesus the amount of energy those things would have to channel and transmit would be absurd. Of course then you have to figure energy efficiency.. and the whole thing gives me a headache.

Ok, a StarGate takes a multi-gigaton bomb to blow it up. Fair enough the thing handles massive amounts of energy to function. Except you do the math and realize that the gate handles orders of magnitude more energy. I figure this out when I was trying to rationalize what happens to thinks that enter the "wrong end" of a wormhole, or get destroyed by the kawoosh.

100lbs of person, rock, whatever, equals 45,359.237 grams of matter converted to energy. For comparison the bomb dropped on Hiroshima converted about 3 grams of matter to energy. The phrase Earth Shattering Kaboom ceases to be meaningful. How much ice did the kawoosh in Continuum shave off of the hull breach in the Achille's? 400, 500lbs? Safe to say the gate would have plenty of power. To wit, the Mark IX bomb is said to be multi-gigaton. Okay, a gigaton is 4.184×10^18 joules of energy. Let's say it's a 5 gigaton blast(209,200,000,000 joules). Matter releases 9×10^16 J/kg of energy. If we assume the gate vaporized an even 400lbs (181.436948 kilograms) the gate would of had to absorb 16,329,325,300,000,000,000 joules. Now I'm no expert, but uh, one of those numbers is waaay bigger than the other. The stargate would of had to absorb orders of magnitude more energy than their "Gatebuster" bomb put out. Think of the two schmucks who vaporized themselves when SG-1 was trapped in that prison cave. Bet they had a combined weight over 400lbs.

Then you have to realize that the gate every use handles way more power than that. A fully loaded puddle jumper probably weighs a couple of tons, ten times the number previous. I mean jesus the amount of energy those things would have to channel and transmit would be absurd. Of course then you have to figure energy efficiency.. and the whole thing gives me a headache.

When watching Stargate (SG-1, Atlantis, Continuum, etc), I'm not usually crunching numbers in my head. I just enjoy it for what it is, good sci-fi.

You're not watching it right! Don't get me started on the time travel stupidity in Continuum. I figured that paragraph out reading the JustBugsMe entry on TVTropes for the show.

Wait, THIS is the only thing that bothers you about the SG shows?

What about the hackneyed dialogue and trite, shallow characterizations?

What about how nearly every plotline is utterly dependent on the heroes either fucking up or being ridiculously gullible, or both?

What about the storyline inconsistencies -- like when SG Atlantis spent two+ seasons building up how Ronan is immune to Wraith feeding and then in season 5 had a Wraith convert him to a worshipper by -- yes -- feeding on him?

What about the militarism and political attitude that makes the SG series pretty much "24 in Space"?

What about the butt-fugly space ships our heroes fly around in? They're always ready to steal alien technology. Maybe they should pick up some style tips, too.

Seriously, if it weren't for my love of Richard Dean Anderson from his old MacGyver days and if not for the Wraith being space-eye-candy with plenty of style tips to steal for my own projects, I would never have seen more than a few episodes of those shows.

Well Atlantis is horrible, SG-1 had humor.

Well Atlantis is horrible, SG-1 had humor.
Yeah, my grandfather has similar humor. He's dead, by the way, and still just as funny as SG1.

I am far more annoyed by the stupidity of the US military in the episodes.

A. you have a Stargate on your homeplanet.
B. you have Stargates on several offworld bases that do not contain 99,9999% of your population
C. Exploration directly from earth has on several occasions almost led to earths destruction (e.g. the lovely black hole). In addition they left their homeadress behind on almost every location.

Can anyone here think of the logical conclusion ? Indeed. Only explore from the beta, gamma etc sites. With possibly one base that does not travel at all as a final backup of humanity. Limit traffic directly from earth to those basis. Hell, it would take a team departing from earth and then transferring at another location a whole 5 minutes extra of travel time. Oh deary, deary me.

I'm more amused at how often the secret of the Stargate program gets leaked, and it doesn't create a media frenzy, or for that matter, awareness among world powers before it was officially disclosed to them.

Human civilizations that haven't had contact with Earth in thousands of years(if ever) speak perfect english and that is what you question?!?

Human civilizations that haven't had contact with Earth in thousands of years(if ever) speak perfect english and that is what you question?!?

And they all strangely look like humans, and their planet looks like Earth! :eek:

I am far more annoyed by the stupidity of the US military in the episodes.

Wait, there was a proper answer to statements such as those... what was it again? Ah yes, I've got it: Why Do You Hate America?

I'm more amused at how often the secret of the Stargate program gets leaked, and it doesn't create a media frenzy, or for that matter, awareness among world powers before it was officially disclosed to them.

You would also think that the persistent rumors about the Stargate would make other world powers curious, were are the infiltrations by agents of foreign powers?

Human civilizations that haven't had contact with Earth in thousands of years(if ever) speak perfect english and that is what you question?!?

Automatic translation thingy. You know, like the Babel Fish. Works every time.

All your maths can be explained away by a single line of dialogue. That must suck.

All your maths can be explained away by a single line of dialogue. That must suck.

and what is that line?

And they all strangely look like humans, and their planet looks like Earth! :eek:

Technically, they ARE humans. According to Stargate lore, ancient Earth humans were found to be excellent slaves and hosts, and ended up being transplanted to every earth like planet available as slave labor.

The commonality of English on the other hand, I'll chalk it up to the lack of production budget to hire subtitle writers.

Eh? Since when did vapourisation mean matter to energy conversion. I thought all it meant was complete ionisation.

I do seem to remember liking some episodes of SG1. There was one where they get stuck in a time loop, only Jack remembers what he's done each time. and the repeativeness begeins to drive him crazy. That was cool.

and what is that line?

Any random sequence of techno-babble you care to choose. Just put sequence, phase, waveform, doo-hicky, chevron, quantum and contunity in the line and you're away.

Any random sequence of techno-babble you care to choose. Just put sequence, phase, waveform, doo-hicky, chevron, quantum and contunity in the line and you're away.

You forgot subspace.

Ok, a StarGate takes a multi-gigaton bomb to blow it up. Fair enough the thing handles massive amounts of energy to function. Except you do the math and realize that the gate handles orders of magnitude more energy. I figure this out when I was trying to rationalize what happens to thinks that enter the "wrong end" of a wormhole, or get destroyed by the kawoosh.

100lbs of person, rock, whatever, equals 45,359.237 grams of matter converted to energy. For comparison the bomb dropped on Hiroshima converted about 3 grams of matter to energy. The phrase Earth Shattering Kaboom ceases to be meaningful. How much ice did the kawoosh in Continuum shave off of the hull breach in the Achille's? 400, 500lbs? Safe to say the gate would have plenty of power. To wit, the Mark IX bomb is said to be multi-gigaton. Okay, a gigaton is 4.184×10^18 joules of energy. Let's say it's a 5 gigaton blast(209,200,000,000 joules). Matter releases 9×10^16 J/kg of energy. If we assume the gate vaporized an even 400lbs (181.436948 kilograms) the gate would of had to absorb 16,329,325,300,000,000,000 joules. Now I'm no expert, but uh, one of those numbers is waaay bigger than the other. The stargate would of had to absorb orders of magnitude more energy than their "Gatebuster" bomb put out. Think of the two schmucks who vaporized themselves when SG-1 was trapped in that prison cave. Bet they had a combined weight over 400lbs.

Then you have to realize that the gate every use handles way more power than that. A fully loaded puddle jumper probably weighs a couple of tons, ten times the number previous. I mean jesus the amount of energy those things would have to channel and transmit would be absurd. Of course then you have to figure energy efficiency.. and the whole thing gives me a headache.
which gate. you have the super gates as well as the normal gates. ;)

I'm more amused at how often the secret of the Stargate program gets leaked, and it doesn't create a media frenzy, or for that matter, awareness among world powers before it was officially disclosed to them.

there was a story arc where the USA had to explain themselves to the other nations. and remember, there is that second gate which Russia obtained from the us. (not Contiuum, but the episode starring Marina Sirtis) ;)

And they all strangely look like humans, and their planet looks like Earth! :eek: Technically, they ARE humans. According to Stargate lore, ancient Earth humans were found to be excellent slaves and hosts, and ended up being transplanted to every earth like planet available as slave labor.
that was also explained in the first movie.

The commonality of English on the other hand, I'll chalk it up to the lack of production budget to hire subtitle writers. same with Star Trek.
Guess everyone had a babblefish in their ear.

which gate. you have the super gates as well as the normal gates. ;)

The math for a supergate would be worse. Multiple Ori ships flying through, each weighing tens of thousands of tons.

The math for a supergate would be worse. Multiple Ori ships flying through, each weighing tens of thousands of tons.

but those should be easier to destroy... just knock one piece out of alignment! :p

My issues with Stargate:

-Sheer ubiquity. Every time I switch to Sci-Fi, there's a better than even chance Stargate or some incarnation therof will be on. And yet they're going to cancel BSG...

-Samantha Carter: Expert in EVERYTHING, all the time.

-miscellaneous inconsistencies with the film that started it all

-Typical Human 'we're awesome just because' mentality where no matter how advanced and powerful our enemy is, we can always take 'em from our one planet on which most of the population doesn't even know what the hell is happening most of the time

-Daedalus

Although there were a couple episodes I liked, like the Black Hole one and the one mentioned earlier about the time loop thing. Watching Col. O'Neil hit a golfball through the stargate was awesome.

-Samantha Carter: Expert in EVERYTHING, all the time.

The same goes for quite a few NSG forum members, to put it mildly.

-Samantha Carter: Expert in EVERYTHING, all the time.makes me wonder why Daniel Jackson was there...

-miscellaneous inconsistencies with the film that started it all like... O'neill with two 'l's!

-Typical Human 'we're awesome just because' mentality where no matter how advanced and powerful our enemy is, we can always take 'em from our one planet on which most of the population doesn't even know what the hell is happening most of the time well, gotta have some basis in reality... :p

Although there were a couple episodes I liked, like the Black Hole one and the one mentioned earlier about the time loop thing. Watching Col. O'Neil hit a golfball through the stargate was awesome.
them learning to juggle, riding bikes down the halls, and Teal'c always starting his day with a door to the face... :D

Eh? Since when did vapourisation mean matter to energy conversion. I thought all it meant was complete ionisation.

I do seem to remember liking some episodes of SG1. There was one where they get stuck in a time loop, only Jack remembers what he's done each time. and the repeativeness begeins to drive him crazy. That was cool.

Teal'c also remembered what was going on. It was the episode with the Ancient artifact and the solar storm.

but those should be easier to destroy... just knock one piece out of alignment! :p

Or replace one link of the supergate (as it's forming) with a Goa'uld cargo ship.

Eh? Since when did vapourisation mean matter to energy conversion. I thought all it meant was complete ionisation.


The gate converts matter into energy, and sends it to the other end, with an option to store things in a buffer for a while, so technically, it does absorb huge amounts of energy.


there was a story arc where the USA had to explain themselves to the other nations. and remember, there is that second gate which Russia obtained from the us. (not Contiuum, but the episode starring Marina Sirtis) ;)


Oh, I know both episodes and instances, but the key factor was that plenty of evidence was thrown all over the place even before that to at least raise a red flag.

And seriously, why the heck are they still using low tech, supply line hobbled SMGs when they've supposedly manufactured their own plasma weapons from reverse engineered staff weapons? Sure, you can argue the equality of effectiveness when it comes to anti-infantry use, but they don't commonly face just infantry.

makes me wonder why Daniel Jackson was there...


C-3PO could have taken his place, lawsuits aside, for a hell of a lot better show. Daniel Jackson annoyed me to no end with his whining, which didn't have C-3PO's flair, even if he petered it off later on.


them learning to juggle, riding bikes down the halls, and Teal'c always starting his day with a door to the face... :D

If you ask me, O'Neill's ketchup and mustard face was the highlight of the show.

The same goes for quite a few NSG forum members, to put it mildly.

burn!

makes me wonder why Daniel Jackson was there...


Apparently to provide the ONE skill she didn't have (ancient languages).

I guess she was sick that day.


like... O'neill with two 'l's!


It's a lot of little stuff that wouldn't matter until they became plot points later, like the vortext bursting out the front of the gate instead of the back, the chevrons having had no color at all in the movie but now it indicates which galaxy the gate is a part of, the way the chevrons lock in, etc.


them learning to juggle, riding bikes down the halls, and Teal'c always starting his day with a door to the face... :D

The Colonel dipping Carter back for a giant smooch right after submitting his resignation...

Oh, I know both episodes and instances, but the key factor was that plenty of evidence was thrown all over the place even before that to at least raise a red flag. I remember one episode where a reporter was close to uncovering the Stargate program and I think he disappeared at the end of the episode.

then there was that series... Wormhole X-1... :tongue:

And seriously, why the heck are they still using low tech, supply line hobbled SMGs when they've supposedly manufactured their own plasma weapons from reverse engineered staff weapons? Sure, you can argue the equality of effectiveness when it comes to anti-infantry use, but they don't commonly face just infantry.
Didn't the power source prove to be traceable or something? allowing the Gould to track where each explorer team was going and ambushing them?

*shrugs* didn't really watch the series...

C-3PO could have taken his place, lawsuits aside, for a hell of a lot better show. Daniel Jackson annoyed me to no end with his whining, which didn't have C-3PO's flair, even if he petered it off later on. ... O'neill and Tea'c... dealing with C-3PO...

General: "Jack, what happened to that experimental robot we sent with you."
Jack: "err... the Gould shot it up sir."
General: "The lab boys say the damage seems to be from your weapons."
Jack: "well... er... would you believe a malfunction?"

Ok, a StarGate takes a multi-gigaton bomb to blow it up. Fair enough the thing handles massive amounts of energy to function. Except you do the math and realize that the gate handles orders of magnitude more energy. I figure this out when I was trying to rationalize what happens to thinks that enter the "wrong end" of a wormhole, or get destroyed by the kawoosh.

100lbs of person, rock, whatever, equals 45,359.237 grams of matter converted to energy. For comparison the bomb dropped on Hiroshima converted about 3 grams of matter to energy. The phrase Earth Shattering Kaboom ceases to be meaningful. How much ice did the kawoosh in Continuum shave off of the hull breach in the Achille's? 400, 500lbs? Safe to say the gate would have plenty of power. To wit, the Mark IX bomb is said to be multi-gigaton. Okay, a gigaton is 4.184×10^18 joules of energy. Let's say it's a 5 gigaton blast(209,200,000,000 joules). Matter releases 9×10^16 J/kg of energy. If we assume the gate vaporized an even 400lbs (181.436948 kilograms) the gate would of had to absorb 16,329,325,300,000,000,000 joules. Now I'm no expert, but uh, one of those numbers is waaay bigger than the other. The stargate would of had to absorb orders of magnitude more energy than their "Gatebuster" bomb put out. Think of the two schmucks who vaporized themselves when SG-1 was trapped in that prison cave. Bet they had a combined weight over 400lbs.

Then you have to realize that the gate every use handles way more power than that. A fully loaded puddle jumper probably weighs a couple of tons, ten times the number previous. I mean jesus the amount of energy those things would have to channel and transmit would be absurd. Of course then you have to figure energy efficiency.. and the whole thing gives me a headache.

Someone has too much time on their hands.

*sings*

If you're wondering how he eats and breathes, and other science facts,
Just repeat to yourself, "It's just a show. I should really just relax..."

And they all strangely look like humans, and their planet looks like Earth! :eek:
More precisely 95% of all the planets in two galaxies look like a park in Vancouver.

Someone has too much time on their hands.

Eh with Wikipedia and google it only took me a few minutes to find the relevant information and do the math.

Several years ago, I used to watch SG-1, Atlantis, and BSG religiously. Then one Friday I missed all three shows, and never bothered to watch them again.

I find it amusing that in between all the maths and physics, you call it 'the kawoosh'.

And they all strangely look like humans, and their planet looks like Earth! :eek:
They look like humans because they are, and their planets look like Earth because humans need Earth-like planets to live on.
*sings*

If you're wondering how he eats and breathes, and other science facts,
Just repeat to yourself, "It's just a show. I should really just relax..."

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MST3KMantra

*sings*

If you're wondering how he eats and breathes, and other science facts,
Just repeat to yourself, "It's just a show. I should really just relax..."

Poli, think about it. This is NSG. A fair amount of people here would rather bitch constantly about everything than have fun.

Poli, think about it. This is NSG. A fair amount of people here would rather bitch constantly about everything than have fun.

Bitching is fun!

Technically, they ARE humans. According to Stargate lore, ancient Earth humans were found to be excellent slaves and hosts, and ended up being transplanted to every earth like planet available as slave labor.



Problem with humans is they drown in self pity and demand reparations later on. This was probably over looked by the slave masters.

Problem with humans is they drown in self pity and demand reparations later on. This was probably over looked by the slave masters.

Well the slave masters in this case got pretty well driven to extinction. Really messy purges, Continuum had the execution of the last one.

Well the slave masters in this case got pretty well driven to extinction. Really messy purges, Continuum had the execution of the last one.

See, genocide is ok when they're really evil. Except for the ones who aren't, but they like to pretend they're a different species so its ok.

See, genocide is ok when they're really evil. Except for the ones who aren't, but they like to pretend they're a different species so its ok.

Sorry, but the Tok'ra are still around as well as the Gould in general. it's only the System Lords that were made... Extinct.

so it's not really Genocide.

Bitching is fun!

Hiphop taught me that bitches are more fun.

Ok, a StarGate takes a multi-gigaton bomb to blow it up. Fair enough the thing handles massive amounts of energy to function. Except you do the math ......

Ye see that there is where you and me part ways....

Well the slave masters in this case got pretty well driven to extinction. Really messy purges, Continuum had the execution of the last one.

That was the last Ba'al clone, not the last Goa'uld.

Sorry, but the Tok'ra are still around as well as the Gould in general. it's only the System Lords that were made... Extinct.

so it's not really Genocide.

Oh, that's okay then, because total war to the point of annihilating every man, woman and child of the enemy is what makes for a likeable group of heroes. I know there's nothing that makes me want to identify with a character more than the idea that he/she brought about somebody's extinction.

Men, that's just scary. Those were exactly my thoughts as well! Nothing says "protagonist behaviour" like a properly executed mass eradication, after all.

That's why I called it "24 In Space." SG1 is just one big war-humping slaughter-fest, and on SG Atlantis, they torture prisoners to death in knowing violation of their own laws. But we're supposed to like these characters. Not me. I root for the aliens. They're smarter and they dress better.

*sings*

If you're wondering how he eats and breathes, and other science facts,
Just repeat to yourself, "It's just a show. I should really just relax..."

YES YES YES!

MST3K could use Stargate as material. It's certainly worthwhile.

Me, I still watch Stargate, but only because I had for a long time before I realized it wasn't that great, and really, there just isn't that much in the way of good science fiction on television. We have to accept what we've got.

Muravyets: Yeah, tell me about it. I get so utterly sick of how they treat obviously sentient beings like the Replicators and the Wraith as if they weren't people, as if they were nothing more than mere two-dimensional enemies.

I hated the Replicators and I was glad they were gone in terms of being an enemy because of the way they kept getting treated. Don't get me started on how utterly stupid it is that the Pegasus Replicators were somehow ENTIRELY IDENTICAL IN ABILITY to the original Replicators. Hands in foreheads and everything. Just plug and play!

I assume that the Star gate would have to get it's energy sources from somewhere.

That's why I called it "24 In Space." SG1 is just one big war-humping slaughter-fest, and on SG Atlantis, they torture prisoners to death in knowing violation of their own laws. But we're supposed to like these characters. Not me. I root for the aliens. They're smarter and they dress better.

Somehow I doubt the Wraith are signatories of the Geneva Convention.

It's an action sci-fi show, it's not meant to make you think.

I remember one episode where a reporter was close to uncovering the Stargate program and I think he disappeared at the end of the episode.

then there was that series... Wormhole X-1... :tongue:

The reporter died in an accident supposedly, still, if an investigative journalist can find it out, why can't better connected espionage services do so?


Didn't the power source prove to be traceable or something? allowing the Gould to track where each explorer team was going and ambushing them?

*shrugs* didn't really watch the series...

Some other sort of power source IIRC. Not the energy weapons themselves though. Heck, they had stockpiles of staff weapons. Why couldn't they just jury rig pistol grips triggers and sights on the things while chopping off the rear? They would make far better weapons than lead pushers in most cases.


... O'neill and Tea'c... dealing with C-3PO...

General: "Jack, what happened to that experimental robot we sent with you."
Jack: "err... the Gould shot it up sir."
General: "The lab boys say the damage seems to be from your weapons."
Jack: "well... er... would you believe a malfunction?"

If they didn't shoot Daniel Jackson, despite his holier than thou attitude and "lets get everyone into trouble because I'm a naive dumbass", they're not likely to shoot C-3PO.

Human civilizations that haven't had contact with Earth in thousands of years(if ever) speak perfect english and that is what you question?!?

I like how the ONLY civilization that didn't speak English was the original civilization from the movie. How the fuck would it hurt the budget to teach some people a few words of a different language or just make it up?

Somehow I doubt the Wraith are signatories of the Geneva Convention.
As in real life, that's not the point!

Though it is the exact argument the hero "Sheppard" made in the script (I think he must have heard either Dick Cheney or Jack Bauer say it).

It's an action sci-fi show, it's not meant to make you think.
Then that's another thing they failed on, because they did make me think -- they made me think their shows suck.

The reporter died in an accident supposedly, still, if an investigative journalist can find it out, why can't better connected espionage services do so?

Exactly. As if Mossad wouldn't be all over this shit. As if the Russians wouldn't already be running their own secret mountain, and our guys running into their guys on all the planets -- or just finding all the alien restaurants already serving blinis and smuggled caviar.

I like how the ONLY civilization that didn't speak English was the original civilization from the movie. How the fuck would it hurt the budget to teach some people a few words of a different language or just make it up?
This too. Hello, they're actors. They can make up sounds, trust me. Hell damn, they could have the aliens speaking Pig-Latin and Ubbi-Dubbi and it would be more believable.

Exactly. As if Mossad wouldn't be all over this shit. As if the Russians wouldn't already be running their own secret mountain, and our guys running into their guys on all the planets -- or just finding all the alien restaurants already serving blinis and smuggled caviar.


The Russians did for a while, and then decided to dump the project cause it was "too risky and expensive". Pfft. As if the Russians have any qualms about that loss of life or expense in achieving strategically massive goals like that.

The Russians did for a while, and then decided to dump the project cause it was "too risky and expensive". Pfft. As if the Russians have any qualms about that loss of life or expense in achieving strategically massive goals like that.
I guess they have to pay the actors more to do accents. :p

Ok, a StarGate takes a multi-gigaton bomb to blow it up. Fair enough the thing handles massive amounts of energy to function. Except you do the math and realize that the gate handles orders of magnitude more energy.

Don't be such a Carter.

A fully loaded puddle jumper probably weighs a couple of tons...
I thought the term 'puddle jumper' was a derogatory euphemism for a homosexual.
Which makes this sentence in the OP even more bizarre and if true, I'm never ever going near a gay nightclub. Last thing I want is a drunk puddle-jumper staggering out and falling on top of me. I'd be squashed flat!

I thought the term 'puddle jumper' was a derogatory euphemism for a homosexual.
Which makes this sentence in the OP even more bizarre and if true, I'm never ever going near a gay nightclub. Last thing I want is a drunk puddle-jumper staggering out and falling on top of me. I'd be squashed flat!

Over here "puddle jumper" means a small passenger aircraft.

like... O'neill with two 'l's!

That's the Irish spelling. Link. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_(surname))

power =/= energy

It's about energy transfer. Take for example 2000 people; do they spontaneously explode over the course of a year? No, yet in a year they use as many joules as 5 gigaton blast.
A nuclear explosion is the release of a huge amount of energy in millisecond. Passing through a stargate is a matter of seconds. There's your several orders of magnitude.

Not to mention it's a whole different ballgame to transfer energy through a wormhole or absorbing an impact into the gate itself.

And we haven't even gotten to technobabble yet.

Oh, that's okay then, because total war to the point of annihilating every man, woman and child of the enemy is what makes for a likeable group of heroes. I know there's nothing that makes me want to identify with a character more than the idea that he/she brought about somebody's extinction.

well, to be honest... they did explore alternate possbilities where the "heroes" did such wonderful things as sending a mega nuclear bomb to the Jaffa Homeword...

The reporter died in an accident supposedly, still, if an investigative journalist can find it out, why can't better connected espionage services do so? and which espionage serivce is better than the US Journalist? :tongue:

Some other sort of power source IIRC. Not the energy weapons themselves though. Heck, they had stockpiles of staff weapons. Why couldn't they just jury rig pistol grips triggers and sights on the things while chopping off the rear? They would make far better weapons than lead pushers in most cases. actually... I've always wondered why they (Gouald) wear armor if it doesn't stop bullets...

If they didn't shoot Daniel Jackson, despite his holier than thou attitude and "lets get everyone into trouble because I'm a naive dumbass", they're not likely to shoot C-3PO. ah, but Daniel Jackson proved himself more useful than a certain protocal droid built by the dark lord himself.

That's the Irish spelling. Link. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_(surname))

and it was Jack's favorite line.

the name's O'Neill... with TWO L's (and he'll hold up three fingers.) :D

well, to be honest... they did explore alternate possbilities where the "heroes" did such wonderful things as sending a mega nuclear bomb to the Jaffa Homeword...
They never bother to correct and/or note their own mistakes though.

Carson Beckett and Dr. Elizabeth Weir were the only two truly decent people in Atlantis, for instance, and which two people were killed off in favor of others?

That's right, Carson Beckett and Dr. Elizabeth Weir.

and which espionage serivce is better than the US Journalist? :tongue:

All of them.

actually... I've always wondered why they (Gouald) wear armor if it doesn't stop bullets...

Originally, it did. Then supposedly all their arms switched over to armour-piercing bullets and apparently the Goa'uld are stupid and didn't bother to innovate. In other words, it was an excuse by the writers to explain why at first they were a problem but then they turned into cannon-fodder.

They never bother to correct and/or note their own mistakes though. that's true for any series.

also, the size of the Goa'uld keeps changing. from the small, eel sized things to python sized ones to finger-length...

Carson Beckett and Dr. Elizabeth Weir were the only two truly decent people in Atlantis, for instance, and which two people were killed off in favor of others? I liked Dr Fraiser and Gen Hammond. I hated to see them go. :(

Oops... meant Dr Fraiser, not weir. but weir was a good character.

Originally, it did. Then supposedly all their arms switched over to armour-piercing bullets and apparently the Goa'uld are stupid and didn't bother to innovate. In other words, it was an excuse by the writers to explain why at first they were a problem but then they turned into cannon-fodder.
in a way... that is true. the Goa'uld were supposed to be static... stuck in their ways.

They never bother to correct and/or note their own mistakes though.

Carson Beckett and Dr. Elizabeth Weir were the only two truly decent people in Atlantis, for instance, and which two people were killed off in favor of others?

That's right, Carson Beckett and Dr. Elizabeth Weir.


You mean the Carson Beckett who routinely experimented with untested drugs on sentient subjects, usually prisoners being used against their will or without their prior knowledge, and who managed to kill almost all of them? You mean the Carson Beckett who knew next to nothing about Wraiths but was so in love with his dream of "curing" them of the disease of being Wraiths (gosh, I guess they're lucky they're not gay, too) that he was instrumental in creating a plague against them that also kills humans and singlehandedly created the unrelenting enemy called Michael and his army of other former Wraiths who were mutated by Beckett's experiments? Is that the "decent" person you're talking about?

And Dr. Elizabeth Weir -- you're talking about the one who approved Beckett's experiments and approved prisoner torture and summary execution while openly acknowledging that such actions were both illegal and unethical, right? She was also the one who let Sheppard and his crew run around like military loose cannons without any accountability for their actions, creating and escalating conflicts all over the galaxy, and whose bad judgment more than once opened the city of Atlantis and the planet Earth to enemy attack. Yes, very admirable, indeed. Too bad she's gone.

EDIT: I wouldn't even mind such egregious shit if there was any comeuppance for it written into the show -- if the "heroes" weren't actually heroes, but were portrayed as the screw-ups they are, or if, every couple of seasons, some of the worst offenders would be called to account for it and replaced with new cast who would either do better or screw up and suffer for it again.

You mean the Carson Beckett who routinely experimented with untested drugs on sentient subjects, usually prisoners being used against their will or without their prior knowledge, and who managed to kill almost all of them? You mean the Carson Beckett who knew next to nothing about Wraiths but was so in love with his dream of "curing" them of the disease of being Wraiths (gosh, I guess they're lucky they're not gay, too) that he was instrumental in creating a plague against them that also kills humans and singlehandedly created the unrelenting enemy called Michael and his army of other former Wraiths who were mutated by Beckett's experiments? Is that the "decent" person you're talking about?

And Dr. Elizabeth Weir -- you're talking about the one who approved Beckett's experiments and approved prisoner torture and summary execution while openly acknowledging that such actions were both illegal and unethical, right? She was also the one who let Sheppard and his crew run around like military loose cannons without any accountability for their actions, creating and escalating conflicts all over the galaxy, and whose bad judgment more than once opened the city of Atlantis and the planet Earth to enemy attack. Yes, very admirable, indeed. Too bad she's gone.

EDIT: I wouldn't even mind such egregious shit if there was any comeuppance for it written into the show -- if the "heroes" weren't actually heroes, but were portrayed as the screw-ups they are, or if, every couple of seasons, some of the worst offenders would be called to account for it and replaced with new cast who would either do better or screw up and suffer for it again.
Point made.

and which espionage serivce is better than the US Journalist? :tongue:


Considering they're absolute care for facts, just about all of them. :p


actually... I've always wondered why they (Gouald) wear armor if it doesn't stop bullets...

If you see the original film, the Anubis guards are almost indestructible to conventional arms and can absorb ludicrous amounts of punishment.


ah, but Daniel Jackson proved himself more useful than a certain protocal droid built by the dark lord himself.


Only because Daniel Jackson was in a time and place that had use for translators, while the protocol droid was in a time and place that had better use for psychologists, espionage facilities and ego-poppers.

Only because Daniel Jackson was in a time and place that had use for translators, while the protocol droid was in a time and place that had better use for psychologists, espionage facilities and ego-poppers.
oh gods... Dr. C3P0... psychologist... :eek:

You mean the Carson Beckett who routinely experimented with untested drugs on sentient subjects, usually prisoners being used against their will or without their prior knowledge, and who managed to kill almost all of them? You mean the Carson Beckett who knew next to nothing about Wraiths but was so in love with his dream of "curing" them of the disease of being Wraiths (gosh, I guess they're lucky they're not gay, too) that he was instrumental in creating a plague against them that also kills humans and singlehandedly created the unrelenting enemy called Michael and his army of other former Wraiths who were mutated by Beckett's experiments? Is that the "decent" person you're talking about?

And Dr. Elizabeth Weir -- you're talking about the one who approved Beckett's experiments and approved prisoner torture and summary execution while openly acknowledging that such actions were both illegal and unethical, right? She was also the one who let Sheppard and his crew run around like military loose cannons without any accountability for their actions, creating and escalating conflicts all over the galaxy, and whose bad judgment more than once opened the city of Atlantis and the planet Earth to enemy attack. Yes, very admirable, indeed. Too bad she's gone.

EDIT: I wouldn't even mind such egregious shit if there was any comeuppance for it written into the show -- if the "heroes" weren't actually heroes, but were portrayed as the screw-ups they are, or if, every couple of seasons, some of the worst offenders would be called to account for it and replaced with new cast who would either do better or screw up and suffer for it again.

"Good Character" doesn't mean the character was noble or just. just that they were interesting.

"Good Character" doesn't mean the character was noble or just. just that they were interesting.
A) Kyronea didn't say "good character." He said "decent people."

B) I didn't find them to be good or interesting characters at all. I found them shallow, trite, one-dimensional, and poorly written. I felt that the writers had created ethical and conceptual conflicts with the characters that they never explored or followed through on. All I see in all the SG scripts is dramatic opportunities missed and fairly talented actors being wasted.

C) And aside from that critique, I also found Carson and Weir two of the more annoying characters, to my personal tastes.

A) Kyronea didn't say "good character." He said "decent people."

B) I didn't find them to be good or interesting characters at all. I found them shallow, trite, one-dimensional, and poorly written. I felt that the writers had created ethical and conceptual conflicts with the characters that they never explored or followed through on. All I see in all the SG scripts is dramatic opportunities missed and fairly talented actors being wasted.

a) oops. missed that. :tongue:
b) as I replied earlier... alot of series does that. but they do have a fine line to cross. develop the character too quickly and the series becomes boring. develop them too slowly and you miss opportunities. add to that you really don't know how long the series would last...

a) oops. missed that. :tongue:
b) as I replied earlier... alot of series does that. but they do have a fine line to cross. develop the character too quickly and the series becomes boring. develop them too slowly and you miss opportunities. add to that you really don't know how long the series would last...
I'm willing to cut tv a lot of slack for hack writing and sloppy plot development. I'm even willing to tolerate crappy effects and sets that are just the same Vancouver parking lot over and over.

What I can't put up with the kind of stuff that tells me these people Just. Do. Not. Care.

The kind of "24"-style stuff I've been crabbing about is just so cynically exploitative, plus the obvious errors and forgetting of major story elements, and the failure to focus on story elements that really are compelling and entertaining in favor of the same old generic, canned script formulas -- it all tells me that the people in charge of this project are more interested in exploiting a particular audience demographic than putting together a quality project.

And the sad part is that you can exploit a demographic with a set-in-stone formula and still make a half-way decent show. Hello, "Law and Order," anyone?

I'm willing to cut tv a lot of slack for hack writing and sloppy plot development. I'm even willing to tolerate crappy effects and sets that are just the same Vancouver parking lot over and over.

What I can't put up with the kind of stuff that tells me these people Just. Do. Not. Care.

The kind of "24"-style stuff I've been crabbing about is just so cynically exploitative, plus the obvious errors and forgetting of major story elements, and the failure to focus on story elements that really are compelling and entertaining in favor of the same old generic, canned script formulas -- it all tells me that the people in charge of this project are more interested in exploiting a particular audience demographic than putting together a quality project.

And the sad part is that you can exploit a demographic with a set-in-stone formula and still make a half-way decent show. Hello, "Law and Order," anyone?

true. but that's what happens when you have an army of writers and not just a set group of writers.

the difference... however, with Law and Order is that it's episodial. thus not building upon each other. so you have, what I would call, Hyper character development and the characters focused on are those being investigated. each season the focus is on the perps and the victims and less on the cops. thus their development can be slow and rarely does it become plot centric.

however Stargate and also Star Trek, BSG and others, it's the main characters that are the focus of the story. thus their development walks that thin line.

Babylon 5, the creator had a set starting point and a set ending point thus he had a firm grip of the overall story.

true. but that's what happens when you have an army of writers and not just a set group of writers.
You end up with shows like SG1 and SGA.

the difference... however, with Law and Order is that it's episodial. thus not building upon each other. so you have, what I would call, Hyper character development and the characters focused on are those being investigated. each season the focus is on the perps and the victims and less on the cops. thus their development can be slow and rarely does it become plot centric.

however Stargate and also Star Trek, BSG and others, it's the main characters that are the focus of the story. thus their development walks that thin line.

Babylon 5, the creator had a set starting point and a set ending point thus he had a firm grip of the overall story.
Those are good points about L&O and Babylon 5, but I don't buy them as excuses for SG1 and SGA's failings. "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" put all its focus on the main characters and their development over a few meta-story arcs too, and unlike B5, Buffy had no pre-planned end point. Over its run, it completed a few meta-story arcs and changed direction rather drastically, too, a couple of times. But the writers did three things that it seems the SG writers don't:

-- They kept track of the major story elements so as to avoid gross inconsistencies.

-- They stayed true to the core personalities of the main characters, not letting them do things that were out of character. If they wanted to significantly change a character, they tried to work it into the story arcs in such a way that it made sense and felt natural to the character. That's the difference between characters growing through a story and characters just being used like puppets.

-- Since they were a show about good against evil, they stayed true to the good/evil divide. If the characters did something that was against the principles of "hero," they suffered some kind of consequence for it, some kind of blowback, up to and including losing the trust of their team members. That never happens on an SG show. For instance, on SGA, no matter how much the main characters' actions are questioned when they do them, the next week, it's like it never happened. It's always "Oh, well, that was maybe not a great thing to do, but hey, you're you and they're them, so it's all good. Where to next?"

I think I'd put the problem down to the first thing you said -- the army of writers. That more than anything would account for the terrible inconsistencies and lack of serious concern for quality that I see. And that's frustrating, because SG1 and SGA are good concepts that are just being wasted, in my opinion.

You end up with shows like SG1 and SGA. :p

Those are good points about L&O and Babylon 5, but I don't buy them as excuses for SG1 and SGA's failings. "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" put all its focus on the main characters and their development over a few meta-story arcs too, and unlike B5, Buffy had no pre-planned end point. Over its run, it completed a few meta-story arcs and changed direction rather drastically, too, a couple of times. But the writers did three things that it seems the SG writers don't: except Buffy was tightly controlled by Josh. I believe he approved all stories before they were accepted
-- They kept track of the major story elements so as to avoid gross inconsistencies. like the "there is only one slayer".

there might be others I could pull up but I really didn't watch that series either... or I stopped watching after the 3rd season...

-- They stayed true to the core personalities of the main characters, not letting them do things that were out of character. If they wanted to significantly change a character, they tried to work it into the story arcs in such a way that it made sense and felt natural to the character. That's the difference between characters growing through a story and characters just being used like puppets. which was under the control of Josh. no evidence that SG(franchise) had that same control. after all, Daniel accended for goodness sakes. yet after his return he is still in denial about supernatural abilities?!?

-- Since they were a show about good against evil, they stayed true to the good/evil divide. If the characters did something that was against the principles of "hero," they suffered some kind of consequence for it, some kind of blowback, up to and including losing the trust of their team members. That never happens on an SG show. For instance, on SGA, no matter how much the main characters' actions are questioned when they do them, the next week, it's like it never happened. It's always "Oh, well, that was maybe not a great thing to do, but hey, you're you and they're them, so it's all good. Where to next?" it was 'touched' upon in SG1... to the extent where the alliance between the Jaffa, Tok'ra and Earth was threatened to be fratured. It was sad that the next big baddie in the SG universe was another 'religion'.

I think I'd put the problem down to the first thing you said -- the army of writers. That more than anything would account for the terrible inconsistencies and lack of serious concern for quality that I see. And that's frustrating, because SG1 and SGA are good concepts that are just being wasted, in my opinion.so was ST: Voyager.

too many cheifs...

:p

except Buffy was tightly controlled by Josh. I believe he approved all stories before they were accepted
Like I said, the "army of writers" concept is clearly SG's problem. There is no controlling vision, and it shows.

like the "there is only one slayer".

there might be others I could pull up but I really didn't watch that series either... or I stopped watching after the 3rd season...
As I recall that was not a violation of the one-slayer story element because other events caused a breaking down of the spiritual rule that controlled that. They didn't just abandon or forget that story element. They deliberately changed it. That was one of the major changes of direction that I was thinking about when I said the writers made an effort to keep track and make things make sense.

which was under the control of Josh. no evidence that SG(franchise) had that same control. after all, Daniel accended for goodness sakes. yet after his return he is still in denial about supernatural abilities?!?
Again, that is a failing of the SG franchises, not an excuse. It is the thing they are doing wrong.

it was 'touched' upon in SG1... to the extent where the alliance between the Jaffa, Tok'ra and Earth was threatened to be fratured. It was sad that the next big baddie in the SG universe was another 'religion'.
Excuse me, you just pointed out that the main characters are the focus of the SG shows. I'm talking about personal drama that affects the main characters. In both SG shows the characters do emotionally traumatic things and they have no effect on them. They do extremely unethical things and other characters argue it, but in later episodes, it's like it never happened. It has no effect on their relationships.

EDIT: Also, from what you say, it seems the alliance was only threatened with fracture. Wouldn't it have been more dramatic and more interesting if it had fractured because of the heroes' actions?

so was ST: Voyager.

too many cheifs...
I agree.

As I recall that was not a violation of the one-slayer story element because other events caused a breaking down of the spiritual rule that controlled that. They didn't just abandon or forget that story element. They deliberately changed it. That was one of the major changes of direction that I was thinking about when I said the writers made an effort to keep track and make things make sense. except the changes (for the one slayer bit) came about after Buffy 'died'. then after several seasons, they started the changes.

EDIT: Also, from what you say, it seems the alliance was only threatened with fracture. Wouldn't it have been more dramatic and more interesting if it had fractured because of the heroes' actions? well, it wasn't just the heroes, it was a buildup of the actions from the other teams as well as how they were being treated. but point taken.

except the changes (for the one slayer bit) came about after Buffy 'died'. then after several seasons, they started the changes.
So? The point is, when the changes were made, they didn't just forget or ignore earlier major story elements, the way the SG teams do. The Buffy team worked the changes into the story and accounted for why they were different from the previous elements.

well, it wasn't just the heroes, it was a buildup of the actions from the other teams as well as how they were being treated. but point taken.

Over here "puddle jumper" means a small passenger aircraft.

And this peculiar type of aircraft can only land by crashing into a puddle? That's just weird.

And this peculiar type of aircraft can only land by crashing into a puddle? That's just weird.

There doesn't need to be water for a small plane to be called a puddle jumper. It just needs to be a short range aircraft.

There doesn't need to be water for a small plane to be called a puddle jumper. It just needs to be a short range aircraft.

Correct. Growing up I always thought it was referring to the Great Lakes, jumping over them and jokingly calling them "puddles".