NationStates Jolt Archive

I recently had a discussion with someone about alcoholism. They were very firm in the belief that it doesnt exist and isnt a disease, people just need to stop drinking so much.

Being slightly plastered myself currently, I was thinking about this, and I have to say, I really think it is a disease.


What does NSG think? Is it a disease? Or just a matter of will power?


EDIT: Note- I am not an alcoholic. In fact I drink often but not a lot at once. I just am feeling thoughful tonight. So dont think Im an alcoholic and/or making excuses for myself.

It is a mental obsession that causes a physical compulsion to drink. So does that make it a disease?

It is a mental obsession that causes a physical compulsion to drink. So does that make it a disease?

I dont know, you tell me. I want to know your opinion. Does that make it a disease?

I dont know, you tell me. I want to know your opinion. Does that make it a disease?

Possibly a mental disorder. In my opinion all addictions are. However I am not a doctor or psychologist.

The physical addiction to alcohol, might be a disease. I would say the compulsion is definitely a disease, because it's a mental health issue.


Disease- A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms

So, according to that the physical dependence probably, but the mental compulsion, maybe not.......although that definition negates most all mental health issues too, so it's probably not the best definition out there.

As a former addict, I think I don't know.

I was unemployed for a time, while I did look for work at times. Other times I was drinking with a friend of mine. Who drinks-drank from morning to night. Breakfast was a beer.

I started feeling like I needed to drink no matter what. Scared the heck out of me. Stopped drinking with my friend. My feelings for drinking no matter what ended.

My friend got really sick, acted crazy like. Had to be interned. Hands and feet tied with chains. Received blood transfusions. Looked like a cadevar.

Recoverd would not drink, lived 5 good alcohol free years, eventually passed away peacefully.

Strangely enough, I was going to make a post about the exact same thing the other day.

I don't think it's a "disease" in the same way I don't call Anorexia Nervosa a "disease". It's a mental illness or disorder. I do believe that alcoholism -as with any other addiction - is a (or is related to) mental illness.

This is one of those threads were people feel free to opine about subjects about which (1) they know little and (2) experts know a great deal.

I don't see the point in disagreeing with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, National Institutes of Health, World Health Organisation, American Medical Association, American Psychiatric Association, American Hospital Association, the American Public Health Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the American College of Physicians, and the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism -- all of whom consider alcoholism to be a form of disease.

Some links:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/alcoholism.html
http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#12
http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/3337.html
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/268/8/1012
http://apahelpcenter.org/articles/article.php?id=45
http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/publications/en/Neuroscience.pdf

Now, I'm not denying there is room within the scientific community for debate about approaches to and characterization of alcoholism. I'm just not optimisitc this discussion will actually involve such a debate rather that just people's off-the-cuff opinions. :p

I'm just not optimisitc this discussion will actually involve such a debate rather that just people's off-the-cuff opinions. :p

My friend, what is NSG aside from being 99% off the cuff opinions?


And who said Im a boozer?!?;)

Alcoholism is also genetic.

My friend, what is NSG aside from being 99% off the cuff opinions?


And who said Im a boozer?!?;)

I'll need a source for that statistic.

I'll need a source for that statistic.

Which, me being a boozer or 99% of NSG being BS?:p

This is one of those threads were people feel free to opine about subjects about which (1) they know little and (2) experts know a great deal.

I don't see the point in disagreeing with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, National Institutes of Health, World Health Organisation, American Medical Association, American Psychiatric Association, American Hospital Association, the American Public Health Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the American College of Physicians, and the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism -- all of whom consider alcoholism to be a form of disease.

Some links:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/alcoholism.html
http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#12
http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/3337.html
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/268/8/1012
http://apahelpcenter.org/articles/article.php?id=45
http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/publications/en/Neuroscience.pdf

Now, I'm not denying there is room within the scientific community for debate about approaches to and characterization of alcoholism. I'm just not optimisitc this discussion will actually involve such a debate rather that just people's off-the-cuff opinions. :p
I believe that you have adequately covered the necessary info, and your comments are certainly sufficient to leave very little room for doubt.

Good post.

I believe that you have adequately covered the necessary info, and your comments are certainly sufficient to leave very little room for doubt.

Good post.

SILENCE! I seek debate. I seek some crazy loon to come in and just say all alcoholics lack willpower!

SILENCE! I seek debate. I seek some crazy loon to come in and just say all alcoholics lack willpower!


Then you really don't want debate?

I don't know, I"d say it was a condition, medical communities often have to define something a certain way to make it eligible for funds.

Here's a brief medical definition: disease /dis·ease/ (di-zez´) any deviation from or interruption of the normal structure or function of any body part, organ, or system that is manifested by a characteristic set of symptoms and signs and whose etiology, pathology, and prognosis may be known or unknown.

I'd say it fits under this definition once one is an alcoholic, I suppose the quibbles occur on the causes of the disease.

SILENCE! I seek debate. I seek some crazy loon to come in and just say all alcoholics lack willpower!
I should put you in touch with one of my former pysch lecturers. He decided that alcoholism wasn't a disease nor did it cause physical or mental dependency and that all one had to do was to decide to stop. Further, AA was a sham and their total abstinence program was completely useless and helped no-one. Proof of this was the fact that AA kept everything confidential - this was, my lecturer argued - because it had such a high failure rate (he claimed 90%, and with no figures to contradict him, decided he must be correct.

Having grown up with a extremely alcoholic father I felt somewhat insulted and outraged that he was indirectly telling me my father didn't have a severe problem other than a lack of willpower. I could see first-hand the difference between wanting a drink and being so dependent on having one it made a person physically ill. There's a huge difference. My father destroyed himself and his marriage not from a lack of willpower. He certainly didn't want to be in the state he was in and tried many times to stop. Unfortunately his dependence on alcohol was too much.

I got up in the lecturer hall and told him he was full of shit. Told him to try living with an alcoholic for 20 years then say they could stop whenever they feel like.
Didn't make many friends in that class, as most thought him a Pysch god and how dare I contradict him. Also didn't do too well marks-wise for some reason. Can't think why.

I recently had a discussion with someone about alcoholism. They were very firm in the belief that it doesnt exist and isnt a disease
ITS NOT A DISEASE AND IM NOT AFFLICTED, FFS JUST BECAUSE I HAD BEER FOR BREAKFAST DOESN'T MAKE ME ALCOHOLIC!

(that would require drinking White Lightning or Lambrini for breakfast)

I might upset some people here, but I don't know that an addiction (alcohol, drugs, gambling, anything) is a disease. I think that initially, any addict clearly lacks the willpower to say no to whatever societal pressure has caused them to try whatever substance/activity they are addicted to.

The initial decision to drink alcohol is part of societal pressure. The subsequent addiction may be a disease, it may also be a genetic disorder that is triggered by that first drink, or a mental illness (which I think of as a disease anyway). Noone who has never had a drink is an alcoholic. Therefore, I tend to think that some people simply have a predisposition to addiction.

And yes, I realise I succumb to societal pressure most days when I have after-work drinks. I'm not trying to say that there is anything wrong with conforming, or that it makes everyone an alcoholic, merely that the initial decision to drink is due to this pressure.

Possibly a mental disorder. In my opinion all addictions are. However I am not a doctor or psychologist.

Right, from what I recall of my course on drug addiction (equally applicable to alcohol), there is a relatively minor physiological addiction issue with alcohol but the significant issue with alcohol addicition, as with all drugs, comes from the psychological addiction. This results from alcohol stimulating the release of dopamine within the nucleus accumbens, in the same way primary reinforcers (our basic evolutionary drives food, water and sex) do. In the long term (and people have different vulnerabilities to this), this results in individuals being strongly conditioned towards wanting alcohol because the brain interprets it as being 'good' for survival. Furthermore, there is generally a permanent habituation of the receptors in this area of the brain, so the effect is (as far as we can tell) permanent. So once you are an alcoholic, you will always have the cravings.

Now on the one hand, this is a physiological change which will classify it is a disease by traditional standards. I personally do not think it's helpful to classify this, or indeed many psychological disorders, as diseases because of the implications our society has built up around such a label. It tends to place the 'patient' in a very passive role and push towards a mindset that they are not in control of what is happening to them. This is very detrimental to actually treating many disorders, because one of the most important aspects is that people have to feel and take a level of control over their lives and their mental disorder.

The AA does great work and their method may work very well for some people, but the total abstinence method and view that if you have even one sip you will slip back into alcoholism won't work for everyone. Alternative methods which emphasise more sensible reduction and that recovery will include occasionally straying, as long as you learn which triggers cause these so you can avoid them, can be equally if not more effective.

Just like not everyone who drinks will become addicted, not all alcoholics are going to need the same treatment and respond equally well. Is alocholism (and drug addiction generally) a disease, by conventional definitions yes (and indeed is in the DSM), but I've always questioned the wisdom of applying the medical model too literally to mental disorders generally.

I'd say that alcoholism is more of a condition rather than a disease. While there is a detoxification process for alocholics, it's also a cognative problem due to dependancy. The word "disease" denotes that the symptoms were caused by bacteria or viruses.

I'm really just going by what I remember from high school and college biology... I'm a historian, not a doctor so I can really just offer opinion.

ITS NOT A DISEASE AND IM NOT AFFLICTED, FFS JUST BECAUSE I HAD BEER FOR BREAKFAST DOESN'T MAKE ME ALCOHOLIC!

(that would require drinking White Lightning or Lambrini for breakfast)Well not if it was Carling or Carlsberg or similar. Then that would be alcoholism. That's just pure desperation if you're drinking those.

Why all the nitpicking between disease or mental disorder? Does one deserve special treatment over the other?

Why all the nitpicking between disease or mental disorder? Does one deserve special treatment over the other?

No, but they may require a different approach to treatment. Diseases are traditionally approached through medical interventions (generally medication, occasionally surgery), mental disorders often require a more holistic approach and are best dealt with through psychological interventions and therapy (sometimes with medication to deal with the symptoms but never exclusively).