NationStates Jolt Archive

I'll post the entire article and run the risk of c+p spam by simply remarking that we've come a long way baby...

Sixty thousand years ago, a small group of African men and women took to the Red Sea in tiny boats and crossed the Mandab Strait to Asia. Their journey - of less than 20 miles - marked the moment Homo sapiens left its home continent.

The motive for our ancestors' African exodus is not known, though scientists suspect food shortages, triggered by climate change, were involved. However, its impact cannot be overestimated. Two thousand generations later, descendants of these African emigres have settled our entire planet, wiped out all other hominids including the Neanderthals and have reached a population of 6.5 billion.

Now scientists are completing a massive study of DNA samples from a quarter of a million volunteers in different continents in order to create the most precise map yet of mankind's great diaspora. Last week, in Tallinn, Estonia, they outlined their most recent results. 'As the ultimate ancestor begat son, who begat son and so on, they picked up mutations in their DNA that we can now pinpoint by gene analysis,' said project leader Dr Spencer Wells. 'When we look at these markers' distributions we can see how our ancestors moved about.'

Scientists have known for several years that modern humans emerged from sub-Saharan Africa within the past 100,000 years. However, the £25m Genographic project - backed by National Geographic, IBM and the Waitt Family Foundation - has recently transformed that knowledge by painting in a mass of highly detailed information about our African exodus.

After emerging into the Arabian peninsula, some of our ancestors took sea routes along the south Asian coast to reach Australia 50,000 years ago. Only later, about 40,000 years ago, did we enter Europe - its cold and its Neanderthals making it far less hospitable - while one group of Asians headed farther east over the land bridge that then connected their continent to America.

'We can also see that just before humans left Africa, about 70,000 years ago, mankind was brought to the brink of extinction when Mount Toba, in Sumatra, erupted,' said Wells. 'It was the most powerful volcanic eruption for two million years and dropped thick ash and killed vegetation across the globe. Our research now shows Homo sapiens numbers dropped alarmingly at this time and we only just hung on as a species.'

Nevertheless, humanity bounced back, evolving new creative and intellectual gifts under the extreme selective pressures it then had to endure. Since then, waves of men and women have moved round the planet and DNA analysis can detect traces of these movements - often with intriguing results.

One study by project scientists Pierre Zalloua and Chris Tyler-Smith has discovered a genetic marker typical of Europeans in modern Lebanese men. The inference is clear they say: this distinctive Y-chromosome was left behind by 11th-century Crusaders when they invaded Lebanon and then settled in the country. A similar sort of genetic legacy has been detected in regions where Gengis Khan ruled and which has been linked to the many male descendants he produced.

As for Africa, it has the most genetically diverse population of all the continents, as would be expected of humanity's birthplace. And of those living today, the Khoisan people of southern Africa are probably the closest, genetically, to the founding mothers and fathers of humanity, say project scientists.

Here's a link with more detail, including an actual map...

Link (https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html)

Interesting article. And your point is ???????????

Interesting article. And your point is ???????????

even back then, we liked to travel. :D

Here's a link with more detail, including an actual map...

Link (https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html)

That's cool. You can even buy a kit for about $100.00 and track your genetic history. Neat, but I don't have an extra $100.00 right now. :(

we've come a long way baby...

unlike adrian targett, whose family hasn't left somerset in 9000 years

unlike adrian targett, whose family hasn't left somerset in 9000 years
Well, they do make a damn fine cider...

Ooh! Ooh! I know, I know!

WE'RE ALL ORIGINALLY AFRICAN AND THEN ARAB SO WHY THE HATE FOR BROWN PEOPLE!!?

(right?)

Ooh! Ooh! I know, I know!

WE'RE ALL ORIGINALLY AFRICAN AND THEN ARAB SO WHY THE HATE FOR BROWN PEOPLE!!?

(right?)

Brown people are local people and local people are fresh! :)

Ooh! Ooh! I know, I know!

WE'RE ALL ORIGINALLY AFRICAN AND THEN ARAB SO WHY THE HATE FOR BROWN PEOPLE!!?

(right?)

Ask Michael Jackson, he's the one who used the bleach. :D

I'll post the entire article and run the risk of c+p spam by simply remarking that we've come a long way baby...

I don't think prehistoric women smoked Virginia Slims. :p

I'm a little confused by the mention of Neanderthals, since most evolutionary theories indicate that Neanderthals and prehistoric humans inter mated to become modern day people, making them a part of our genetic history and thus pushing the date of exploration out of Africa back roughly 50,000 years.

Please, who will think of the Neanderthals?

I'm a little confused by the mention of Neanderthals, since most evolutionary theories indicate that Neanderthals and prehistoric humans inter mated to become modern day people, making them a part of our genetic history and thus pushing the date of exploration out of Africa back roughly 50,000 years.

Please, who will think of the Neanderthals?


I thought they can't prove that theory. Chances are they did mate though. Unknown if they produced offspring.

Please, who will think of the Neanderthals?
Archeologists, anthropologists, evolutionary biologists and hair fetishists; none of which categories do I fall into.

Gah! You're all my extremely distant cousins! Now I'm scared...

Gah! You're all my extremely distant cousins! Now I'm scared...
We may be closer than you think. The wonder of Internet anonymity is that I could be your own brother, and neither of us would know it.
Now how scared are you?

We may be closer than you think. The wonder of Internet anonymity is that I could be your own brother, and neither of us would know it.
Now how scared are you?

Could be your Mama or Daddy even.

most evolutionary theories indicate that Neanderthals and prehistoric humans inter mated to become modern day people

no your thinking of the crackpot ones who ignore the evidence beyond a child skeleton what with no humans today having the neanderthal charactoristics or genes and the human physique not altering

surely?

I'm a little confused by the mention of Neanderthals, since most evolutionary theories indicate that Neanderthals and prehistoric humans inter mated to become modern day people, making them a part of our genetic history and thus pushing the date of exploration out of Africa back roughly 50,000 years.

Please, who will think of the Neanderthals?

I thought they can't prove that theory. Chances are they did mate though. Unknown if they produced offspring.

no your thinking of the crackpot ones who ignore the evidence beyond a child skeleton what with no humans today having the neanderthal charactoristics or genes and the human physique not altering

surely?


Mitochondrial DNA evidence is making it less and less likely that Neanderthals and early man interbred. That doesn't mean they didn't get their freak on. :)

That doesn't mean they didn't get their freak on. :)

well I think the evidence of jewelry entering Neanderthal camps coinciding with mans arrival might be something :tongue:

Interesting article. And your point is ???????????

I'd have thought that at your age, Celtlund, one would have made the realization that not everything needs a point.

I merely thought the entire project interesting, and more that we're at a point where we can track our history so accurately.

In terms of Neanderthals, I think this is a discovery from within our lifetime, that we did not, in fact, evolve from them and, most likely, we probably wiped the hairy bastards out.

I hadn't realised, however, that Europe was the last continent we moved into precisely because those hairy bastards were there.

We headed East, towards the sun.

well I think the evidence of jewelry entering Neanderthal camps coinciding with mans arrival might be something :tongue:

Indeed, it's when Brut for Men was invented :)

I'll post the entire article and run the risk of c+p spam by simply remarking that we've come a long way baby...

You obviously didn't see the page where someone copy and pasted Obama's entire speech

We headed East, towards the sun.

Umm... if we followed the sun, we wouldn't have gotten anywhere.

"Hey Fred! There's that big shiny thing, let's see if we can get it today!"
"Alright Bill, let's go!"

12 hours later

"Damnit! It got away again... hey this stretch of desert looks familiar!"

I love this sort of stuff.

Really, people, there doesn't need to be a motivation behind posting this beyond "This is really awesome." And it is.

As soon as I have the spare hundred dollars I'm buying one of their kits. I'm still rather confused about my genetic origins beyond Caucasian and possibly Irish.

I love this sort of stuff.

Really, people, there doesn't need to be a motivation behind posting this beyond "This is really awesome." And it is.

As soon as I have the spare hundred dollars I'm buying one of their kits. I'm still rather confused about my genetic origins beyond Caucasian and possibly Irish.

I is sorry, but Caucasian=Somewhere in *probably* Western Europe.

And yeah, I totally would, but I have to buy like $18290728073 worth of Pratchett books first. All I know is I'm at least 25% Irish, I don't have a clue about where my dad's family came from.

I is sorry, but Caucasian=Somewhere in *probably* Western Europe.

And yeah, I totally would, but I have to buy like $18290728073 worth of Pratchett books first. All I know is I'm at least 25% Irish, I don't have a clue about where my dad's family came from.

I realize this.

The reason for my confusion stems from mixed stories from my parents and other relatives about possible Cherokee ancestry. That's what I'm mainly curious about.

The reason for my confusion stems from mixed stories from my parents and other relatives about possible Cherokee ancestry. That's what I'm mainly curious about.

I'd like to sort out my family's Slavic grab bag, although medical DNA analysis will of course have to come first.

Interesting article. And your point is ???????????

We're all related - Neesika, Fass, Smunkee, Ruffy - we are family. *breaks into song,*

We're all related - Neesika, Fass, Smunkee, Ruffy - we are family. *breaks into song,*

So we are not trespassing on Native American land! We are all Native Americans or is it we are all Swedish? Maybe we all move to Oklahoma and call it good.

Boats? Red Sea? Umm... I think not. The Red Sea was barely a sea way back then. Also, boasts; maybe but doubtful when they could just walk way, way, way into the Mediterranean.

I'm a little confused by the mention of Neanderthals, since almost no evolutionary theories indicate that Neanderthals and prehistoric humans inter mated to become modern day people, making them a part of our genetic history and thus pushing the date of exploration out of Africa back roughly 50,000 years.

Please, who will think of the Neanderthals?

Fixed

Whilst humans and Neaderthals probably did interbreed, there is no genetic evidence showing that we've got their genes in us. I think we probably have a small amount, though.

I hadn't realised, however, that Europe was the last continent we moved into precisely because those hairy bastards were there.


If that were the case, we wouldn't have gone into Asia either, becaue Homo Erectus was still there.

If that were the case, we wouldn't have gone into Asia either, becaue Homo Erectus was still there.

*must....resist....joke.....*

I'm finding it extremely interesting that apparently, we moved to Australia well before we moved to Europe.
So far, archaeological evidence seemed to point to us settling Europe and Asia first, and then gradually moving from Asia into America and Australia.
I wonder what this discovery will do to Jared Diamond's "Guns, germs and steel"?

No, the earliest human stuff from Europe is from 50,000 years ago, which is the same as Australia, but there is some evidence to show we were there 60,000, so your archaeological evidence is wrong.

No, the earliest human stuff from Europe is from 50,000 years ago, which is the same as Australia, but there is some evidence to show we were there 60,000, so your archaeological evidence is wrong.

Can you show recent cites for this? I'm not challenging so much as curious.

Most guesses are very wary of specifics but I'd put some credence behind genetic evidence. This project is specifically mapping our genetic lineage so, although I'm not calling it absolute evidence, 'some evidence' that we were there 60, 000 years ago is as suspect as any other. I'm not likely to be swayed by supposition.

Having said that, I wouldn't disagree per se, one can certainly suppose presence before evidence proves it, especially from so long ago.

Whilst humans and Neaderthals probably did interbreed, there is no genetic evidence showing that we've got their genes in us.

on the contrary, we actually have pretty good evidence that there was introgression from archaic human populations for a number of genes. i think the most recent estimate i've seen put the number at ~5% - though this isn't just for neandertal genes.

great.i'm related to people on the net.although my dad's parents were from Karelia and during the war moved to Southern Finland.

Can you show recent cites for this? I'm not challenging so much as curious.

Most guesses are very wary of specifics but I'd put some credence behind genetic evidence. This project is specifically mapping our genetic lineage so, although I'm not calling it absolute evidence, 'some evidence' that we were there 60, 000 years ago is as suspect as any other. I'm not likely to be swayed by supposition.

Having said that, I wouldn't disagree per se, one can certainly suppose presence before evidence proves it, especially from so long ago.

http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news289.htm, http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/is_n1_v18/ai_18974455

on the contrary, we actually have pretty good evidence that there was introgression from archaic human populations for a number of genes. i think the most recent estimate i've seen put the number at ~5% - though this isn't just for neandertal genes.

Sources? I saw a couple of scientists working on the Neanderthal Genome Project and they both said so far there is no genetic evidence of Neanderthal DNA in us.

http://www.trussel.com/prehist/news289.htm, http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1511/is_n1_v18/ai_18974455

A 2007 source...

http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/press/dpp/2007050401

I thought when you spoke of 60, 000 years that you were claiming HS was in Europe at that time, yet still, it doesn't seem supported for Australia either though it seems HS hit Australia before Europe.

Seems counter-intuitive in a way, you'd think Europe was simply closer but there you go.

Certainly not conclusive all this, either way.

Sources? I saw a couple of scientists working on the Neanderthal Genome Project and they both said so far there is no genetic evidence of Neanderthal DNA in us.

http://www.pnas.org/content/103/48/18178.full
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.0020105

Seems counter-intuitive in a way, you'd think Europe was simply closer

but already occupied and on the other side of some geographic barriers.

http://www.pnas.org/content/103/48/18178.full
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.0020105

Those are both "possible", not definite. I said it was possible, you said we DID have Neaderthal DNA, neither of your links proves it.

but already occupied and on the other side of some geographic barriers.

Indeed.

The point is that genetic research seems to be a slightly better means of finding slightly more conclusive dates, I say 'slightly' because your own cite in favour of admixture - a word I've just learned - has many caveats, the nature of science of course and often seized upon to make entirely opposite claims, claims with far less evidence and far more pure supposition.

I post this paragraph from your cite not because I disagree, I don't, but because it shows the wariness of scientific claims, a lot of 'mights' and 'probably' 's but I like to think we're getting there and I like to think genetic research is incredibly valuable.

Our results not only provide genetic evidence in support of the possibility of admixture between modern humans and an archaic Homo lineage but also support the notion that the biological evolution of modern humans might have benefited from the contribution of adaptive alleles from our archaic relatives. In the case of microcephalin, it is all the more intriguing given the fact that the adaptive allele is associated with an important brain development gene. As anatomically modern humans emerged from Africa and spread across the globe, the “indigenous” Homo populations they encountered had already inhabited their respective regions for long periods of time and were, in all likelihood, better adapted to the local environments than the colonizing humans, at least in some biological domains. It is perhaps not surprising then that modern humans, although likely superior in their own way, could in theory benefit from adopting some adaptive alleles from the populations they replaced. That this might indeed be the case for the brain size-determining gene microcephalin should add an important new perspective to the discussion of human origins and the recent evolution of our species. Furthermore, any admixture between modern humans and archaic populations is likely to affect more than one locus in the genome. Our study thus provides a methodological template for identifying additional loci in the human genome that might harbor alleles from archaic populations through introgression and subsequent positive selection.

It's all fascinating.

Those are both "possible", not definite. I said it was possible, you said we DID have Neaderthal DNA, neither of your links proves it.

nothing could prove it, by the nature of science. but we definitely have an allele whose best explanation is that it fairly recently came into the gene pool after being isolated from other alleles for longer than there have been modern humans. introgression is what causes that.

Cool. One of those kits would make a fascinating, though rather expensive birthday present for the boyfriend.

Cool. One of those kits would make a fascinating, though rather expensive birthday present for the boyfriend.

even worse is if you want to get a more complete picture for yourself. due to my awesome "having both a y chromosome and mitochondrial dna" powers, i could do my father's father's fathers, and my mother's mother's mothers for a couple hundred bucks. but if i wanted more i'd need to get my dad's mDNA to get his mother's mother's mothers and i'd have to go to varying extremes of cousins to get my mother's father's fathers and such

but already occupied and on the other side of some geographic barriers.

But this doesn't make sense either, because Asia was also occupied, and the Geographical barriers were greater.

even worse is if you want to get a more complete picture for yourself. due to my awesome "having both a y chromosome and mitochondrial dna" powers, i could do my father's father's fathers, and my mother's mother's mothers for a couple hundred bucks. but if i wanted more i'd need to get my dad's mDNA to get his mother's mother's mothers and i'd have to go to varying extremes of cousins to get my mother's father's fathers and such

Yeah, I'm glad my most awesome boobs&vagina relieve me from any such impossible choices, though I did toy with the idea of my father's regular and mtDNA ..

If that were the case, we wouldn't have gone into Asia either, becaue Homo Erectus was still there.

*must....resist....joke.....*

Man didn't go there, but woman did?

Yeah, I'm glad my most awesome boobs&vagina relieve me from any such impossible choices, though I did toy with the idea of my father's regular and mtDNA ..
I rather toy with your awesome... ah, nevermind.

That's cool. You can even buy a kit for about $100.00 and track your genetic history. Neat, but I don't have an extra $100.00 right now. :(

I can tell you for much less, right over the Internet:
Your oldest ancestors were from southeast Africa, probably near Ethiopia.
(That will be $20.00.)

If that were the case, we wouldn't have gone into Asia either, becaue Homo Erectus was still there.

erectus was either gone or perhaps stuck in a few isolated places by the time we got around to asia

erectus was either gone or perhaps stuck in a few isolated places by the time we got around to asia

It may have just been pure chance, that the first few colonies moved east and therefore created a path that was naturally followed and extended. Traveling up the east side of Africa naturally makes it more likely to move east than west.

I'd also say that the Neanderthals presented more of a threat, in terms of size and strength, than l'il old Homo Erectus.

Ooh! Ooh! I know, I know!

WE'RE ALL ORIGINALLY AFRICAN AND THEN ARAB SO WHY THE HATE FOR BROWN PEOPLE!!?

(right?)

Because you needed scientific verification to reach that conclusion?

Ooh! Ooh! I know, I know!

WE'RE ALL ORIGINALLY AFRICAN AND THEN ARAB SO WHY THE HATE FOR BROWN PEOPLE!!?

(right?)
Because you needed scientific verification to reach that conclusion?

I was excited for a second reading the quote, sounded like something I would say... but then I realized it was Kat. You don't know how dissapointed I was when I found out you weren't quoting my overractionness ;P (stupid mods get all the overraction quotes...:hail:)

I rather toy with your awesome... ah, nevermind.

That's quite alright, but it'll cost you a wee bit more than the $189 it'd cost me to have those two tests for/from my father (well, $189 plus any bribes I'd have to spend to make him cooperate).