NationStates Jolt Archive

Really, was there any point to McCain choosing her? She's quite inexperienced, and if he were going for the females' votes, I'm sure there were a few much more suitable candidates

She's a brand new product McCain is trying to push to uncertain Democrats:

I Can't Believe It's Not Hillary!!

Really, was there any point to McCain choosing her?
Err yep.

She can strip away votes from Obama by being a 'reformist' and also a woman.
She's quite inexperienced
So's Obama...
and if he were going for the females' votes, I'm sure there were a few much more suitable candidates
Such as?

Really, was there any point to McCain choosing her? She's quite inexperienced,

She's got more experience than Obamanation.

She's got more experience than Obamanation.
As the mayor of some nowhere town and the two-year governor of Alaska. She is obviously the pinnacle of political expertise.

She's a brand new product McCain is trying to push to uncertain Democrats:

I Can't Believe It's Not Hillary!!
Winnar.

She's got more experience than Obamanation.

No, she doesn't. But when did the facts ever stop you?

As the mayor of some nowhere town and the two-year governor of Alaska. She is obviously the pinnacle of political expertise.
Aye well if McCain jumps onto the Bullshit Reforms Which Will Never Ever Happen Train as well as Obama, then she's about the least tarred-with-the-Washington-insider-brush candidate there could have been.

Really, was there any point to McCain choosing her? She's quite inexperienced, and if he were going for the females' votes, I'm sure there were a few much more suitable candidates
1) Palin has a vagina.

2) They think women will vote for anything that has a vagina, especially if they were formerly Hillary supporters.

3) How much do you want to bet that before long we'll be hearing rightwing radio puppets talking about how much more progressive McCain is than Obama because McCain is running with a woman while Obama is running with a white guy?

4) So, in the hope that she will confuse and split the female vote, Palin is a political monkey wrench to throw into the works. A monkey wrench with a vagina attached.

5) She's a friend of Big Oil.

6) In fact forget points 1-4. Once you count that she's a friend of Big Oil, what other point do you need to put her on the ticket?


Such as?
There was that rich ebay woman who they say is very capable, but apparently she's very smart too, because it seems like she turned down the offer.

Aye well if McCain jumps onto the Bullshit Reforms Which Will Never Ever Happen Train as well as Obama, then she's about the least tarred-with-the-Washington-insider-brush candidate there could have been.
But she is from Alaska, and has a sketchy rise to fame at that. We will see where this goes.

1) Palin has a vagina.

2) They think women will vote for anything that has a vagina, especially if they were formerly Hillary supporters.

3) How much do you want to bet that before long we'll be hearing rightwing radio puppets talking about how much more progressive McCain is than Obama because McCain is running with a woman while Obama is running with a white guy?

4) So, in the hope that she will confuse and split the female vote, Palin is a political monkey wrench to throw into the works. A monkey wrench with a vagina attached.

5) She's a friend of Big Oil.

6) In fact forget points 1-4. Once you count that she's a friend of Big Oil, what other point do you need to put her on the ticket?

I refer to Palin from now until the end of the election as ICBINH- acronym for I Can't Believe It's Not Hillary. She's a product being pushed by McCain hoping to scoop up disgrunted Democrats who seem to be somewhat unsure of Obama.

She's a woman. Female politicians all give off an unusual pheromone that means that normal women cannot help but vote for the female candidate, whatever their ideological allegiance. Seriously, its bloody annoying that I've heard people saying how much of the female vote this will win the Republicans. Will people really just drop their political convictions and vote for the ticket with a woman on?

1) Palin has a vagina.

2) They think women will vote for anything that has a vagina, especially if they were formerly Hillary supporters.
Uhu. And in some cases, I'm sure they're quite right.
3) How much do you want to bet that before long we'll be hearing rightwing radio puppets talking about how much more progressive McCain is than Obama because McCain is running with a woman while Obama is running with a white guy?
Umpteen million Roubles.
4) So, in the hope that she will confuse and split the female vote, Palin is a political monkey wrench to throw into the works. A monkey wrench with a vagina attached.
And this is why McCain is now going to win the US election. What does Obama have? A supposed campaign of reform, with a running mate who's been in Washington for about two thirds of Obama's entire life? Nice one. Biden was an extremely poor choice.

What does McCain have? Immunity from proper attacks because he got tortured (note that this also gives him foreign policy credentials somehow) and now a female VP to split the female vote. That's about all he ever needed.
5) She's a friend of Big Oil.

6) In fact forget points 1-4. Once you count that she's a friend of Big Oil, what other point do you need to put her on the ticket?
Seriously, what is it with you Yanks and this Big Oil pish?

"Hey let's blame everything on the people who make the entire economy work even remotely, yes"
There was that rich ebay woman who they say is very capable, but apparently she's very smart too, because it seems like she turned down the offer.
Doesn't sound very politically astute to me, then.

But she is from Alaska
So?

Obama is from Hawaii/Kenya depending on who's talking. It doesn't actually matter where he's from, because hey, he's an EVIL DARKIE, WOOOOooooNOOOOOOO!, and this is not going to be fixed by taking supposedly down to earth Joe Biden as his running mate.
and has a sketchy rise to fame at that.
So?

Who actually cares, whose opinion isn't fixed on the matter anyway?

She's a pro-life Republican (old people vote ahoy) and a vaguely supposedly 'reformist' woman (pissed off Hillary voters ahoy).
We will see where this goes.
I can tell you right now that McCain will win this election by a fair few electoral college points.

1) Palin has a vagina.

2) They think women will vote for anything that has a vagina, especially if they were formerly Hillary supporters.

3) How much do you want to bet that before long we'll be hearing rightwing radio puppets talking about how much more progressive McCain is than Obama because McCain is running with a woman while Obama is running with a white guy?

4) So, in the hope that she will confuse and split the female vote, Palin is a political monkey wrench to throw into the works. A monkey wrench with a vagina attached.

5) She's a friend of Big Oil.

6) In fact forget points 1-4. Once you count that she's a friend of Big Oil, what other point do you need to put her on the ticket?


There was that rich ebay woman who they say is very capable, but apparently she's very smart too, because it seems like she turned down the offer.
stop, youre hurting my lady-brain!

Uhu. And in some cases, I'm sure they're quite right.
*goes hunting for Yootopia* Smartass.

Umpteen million Roubles.
Fuck you, commie bastard. I only take euros.

And this is why McCain is now going to win the US election. What does Obama have? A supposed campaign of reform, with a running mate who's been in Washington for about two thirds of Obama's entire life? Nice one. Biden was an extremely poor choice.

What does McCain have? Immunity from proper attacks because he got tortured (note that this also gives him foreign policy credentials somehow) and now a female VP to split the female vote. That's about all he ever needed.
This is very likely true. :(

Seriously, what is it with you Yanks and this Big Oil pish?

"Hey let's blame everything on the people who make the entire economy work even remotely, yes"
Please do not perform oral favors upon your gods in public. Thanks.

Doesn't sound very politically astute to me, then.
Since when does "politically astute" have anything to do with intelligence? I refer you to your own (probably accurate) prediction of how the election will go, above.

They used to call former California Gov. Jerry Brown "Governor Moonbeam", saying that he was kind of flaky. Perhaps Sarah Palin should be called "Governor Eye Candy". She seems so far to have as little substance as the GOP accuses Obama of having.

5) She's a friend of Big Oil.

6) In fact forget points 1-4. Once you count that she's a friend of Big Oil, what other point do you need to put her on the ticket?




That explains it, thank you. :mad:

They used to call former California Gov. Jerry Brown "Governor Moonbeam", saying that he was kind of flaky. Perhaps Sarah Palin should be called "Governor Eye Candy". She seems so far to have as little substance as the GOP accuses Obama of having.

There is another thread in which you would be VERY welcome to post that, if only to take some heat off of me. -_-

*goes hunting for Yootopia* Smartass.
*shrugs*
Fuck you, commie bastard. I only take euros.
Well this way if I lose I owe you like maybe one Euro. Tops.
This is very likely true. :(
Uhu.
Please do not perform oral favors upon your gods in public. Thanks.
Yeah, seriously though, explanation, please. Criticising successful oil companies seems a bit odd to me.

"Man, those bastards keep the flow of goods moving internationally and allow me to live in my slightly sad but very easy Western style and dare to make a profit doing so. Wankers."
Since when does "politically astute" have anything to do with intelligence?
Since about forever.

They used to call former California Gov. Jerry Brown "Governor Moonbeam", saying that he was kind of flaky. Perhaps Sarah Palin should be called "Governor Eye Candy". She seems so far to have as little substance as the GOP accuses Obama of having.
It would suit her. She is a former beauty pageant queen, after all. I think she rose as high as runner-up for the crown (a plaid cap) of Miss West Moose Ball, or something like that.

It would suit her. She is a former beauty pageant queen, after all. I think she rose as high as runner-up for the crown (a plaid cap) of Miss West Moose Ball, or something like that.

I came up with something that I think is more accurate and gender-neutral.

I Can't Believe It's Not Hillary. A substitute product made and advertised in hopes of attracting Democrats who miss the real thing.

I Can't Believe It's Not Hillary. A substitute product made and advertised in hopes of attracting Democrats who miss the real thing.
Sarah Palin : The Soya Milk of the 2008 US Election.

Yeah, seriously though, explanation, please. Criticising successful oil companies seems a bit odd to me.

"Man, those bastards keep the flow of goods moving internationally and allow me to live in my slightly sad but very easy Western style.

Sorry, Yoo, I have instituted an Anti-Hijack program this summer, and your question is too far off topic.

Also, it is baiting, and I have also launched a initiative to keep down troll encouragement by not taking more than a set number of portions of bait. Other people have already used up my allowance.

Finally, you and I have had arguments that involved this sort of issue before (long ago). If you don't remember them, that's okay because I do. All you have to keep in mind is that I think you're full of crap on this issue, as well as completely uninformed as to facts. With that in mind, I think we both know how such a conversation would go, so we don't need to go through it to find out.

I came up with something that I think is more accurate and gender-neutral.

I Can't Believe It's Not Hillary. A substitute product made and advertised in hopes of attracting Democrats who miss the real thing.
It refers directly to Hillary and you're calling it gender-neutral? Ouch.

I don't know how a 44-year old woman could really be called "eye candy." I guess standing beside McCain has the effect of making anyone look better.
Anyway, her (relative) youth and being female might help shake off the image of Republicans as creepy old perverts who sit in smoke-filled backrooms and hunch like vultures.

Aye well if McCain jumps onto the Bullshit Reforms Which Will Never Ever Happen Train as well as Obama, then she's about the least tarred-with-the-Washington-insider-brush candidate there could have been.

He's probably got her trying to fix the engine on the Straight Talk Express and get it rolling again as we speak.

Sorry, Yoo, I have instituted an Anti-Hijack program this summer, and your question is too far off topic.
Not actually me who brought up Big Oil, though, is it?
Finally, you and I have had arguments that involved this sort of issue before (long ago). If you don't remember them, that's okay because I do. All you have to keep in mind is that I think you're full of crap on this issue, as well as completely uninformed as to facts. With that in mind, I think we both know how such a conversation would go, so we don't need to go through it to find out.
Aye, we both stay with the exact same view as we had before. I think that there is no problem in letting companies which run the entire economy be, and indeed supporting them when necessary, and you want basically the opposite, with windfall taxes and the like, from what I recall.

He's probably got her trying to fix the engine on the Straight Talk Express and get it rolling again as we speak.

Even if the engine's fixed, how far is it gonna go with today's oil prices?

:D

It refers directly to Hillary and you're calling it gender-neutral? Ouch.

you have looked at Mrs. Clinton, right?

He's probably got her trying to fix the engine on the Straight Talk Express and get it rolling again as we speak.
Nah. We'll have a short trip on the "look, we are into reform and such too!" tramway before the Straight Talk Express takes over for the last bit of the GOP's journey and pulls into Inevitable and Slighly Crushing Victoryville Station.

Not actually me who brought up Big Oil, though, is it?

Except that my reference was in direct response to the OP, in other words, on topic, whereas your question wasn't. So...done with that then, eh?

Even if the engine's fixed, how far is it gonna go with today's oil prices?

:D

McCain can sell a house or two to fill the tank.

So?

Obama is from Hawaii/Kenya depending on who's talking. It doesn't actually matter where he's from, because hey, he's an EVIL DARKIE, WOOOOooooNOOOOOOO!,

Wrong. Hes a secret Muslim.

Except that my reference was in direct response to the OP, in other words, on topic, whereas your question wasn't.
I dunno, "she's with big oil" kind of follows on to "and this is a big deal why?" in my mind. Then again it's nearly half five in the morning.
So...done with that then, eh?
Aye, pretty much.

Wrong. Hes a secret Muslim.
Not exactly mutually exclusive. I get Fox News, I 'know' these things :p

Wrong. Hes a secret Muslim.

True. I looked it up in my gut.

Wrong. Hes a secret Muslim.

Yeah, just imagine all the secret documents and military firepower Osama Bin Ladin can use if Barack Hussein Obama is put into the White House.

Not exactly mutually exclusive. I get Fox News, I 'know' these things :p

I wouldnt know. I dont see racial color. People have told me he is dark so i just have to take everyones word for it.

True. I looked it up in my gut.
It's easier than a book. And that's what matters.
Yeah, just imagine all the secret documents and military firepower Osama Bin Ladin can use if Barack Hussein Obama is put into the White House.
That is, the ones he already hasn't leaked out.
I wouldnt know. I dont see racial color.
Ah, some kind of dirty communist, eh? :tongue:

Yeah, just imagine all the secret documents and military firepower Osama Bin Ladin can use if Barack Hussein Obama is put into the White House.

Oh wow... do you know how... religist? idk, I'll just go for prejudiced. Do you know how prejudiced that was? You basically said all secret muslims are terrorists. I'm sorry, but I happen to be a secret muslim, and you won't see me flying any planes into buildings.

Well... technically I'm not a secret muslim anymore, but you get the point.

Oh wow... do you know how... religist? idk, I'll just go for prejudiced. Do you know how prejudiced that was? You basically said all secret muslims are terrorists. I'm sorry, but I happen to be a secret muslim, and you won't see me flying any planes into buildings.

Well... technically I'm not a secret muslim anymore, but you get the point.

What do you expect? If You Have Nothing to Hide, You Have Nothing to Fear.

I wouldnt know. I dont see racial color. People have told me he is dark so i just have to take everyones word for it.



Ah, some kind of dirty communist, eh? :tongue:

I believe he was making a reference to Colbert's interview with Elenor Holmes Norton(please correct me if I spelt her name incorrectly.) He said something to that effect. I believe he also said "People tell me I'm white..." in that some interview.

(Sorry, I watched "The Best of The Colbert Report" twice during my 28 hours in the car during vacation this summer. 17 mpg ftw.)

Ah I see. Don't watch much Colbert, find him too smug.

It's easier than a book. And that's what matters.


Did you know that you have more nerve endings in your gut than your brain? It's true. "Now I know some of you are going to say, 'Stephen, I looked it up and it's not.' but that's because you looked it up in a book. Next time look it up in your gut."
The quote goes something like that. Couldn't find it on google or wikipedia, so I gave up.

The quote goes something like that. Couldn't find it on google or wikipedia, so I gave up.
"If I want to say the Panama Canal was completed in 1941, it's my right!" etc. etc.

It wasn't? What's that? Iraq DIDN'T have weapons of mass destruction? I thought they did...

She's got more experience than Obamanation.

Abomination would get my vote anyday. No one is gonna mess with a country that has this for it's President.

http://www.empireonline.com/images/features/hulk/8.jpg

if he just wanted a woman it should have been Paris.
McCain Hilton!!

Abomination would get my vote anyday. No one is gonna mess with a country that has this for it's President.

http://www.empireonline.com/images/features/hulk/8.jpg

And then the Republicans decide to field this guy:

http://screenrant.com/images/the-incredible-hulk-trailer.jpg

And then the Republicans decide to field this guy:

http://screenrant.com/images/the-incredible-hulk-trailer.jpg
At least they have a chance at capturing the Green vote then.

5) She's a friend of Big Oil.

6) In fact forget points 1-4. Once you count that she's a friend of Big Oil, what other point do you need to put her on the ticket?

http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/29/news/newsmakers/palin_oil.fortune/index.htm :



The former high-school basketball star, beauty queen, commercial fisherman, and mayor of Wasilla (population 8,471) [a suburb of Anchorage, btw, not an isolated town in the wilderness] ran on one big issue: Exploiting her state's billions of dollars worth of natural gas on Alaska's terms, not on the oil companies' terms.

For years, Alaskans have dreamed of the revenue bounty promised by the state's natural gas resources. But until recently, prices were too low to make shipping natural gas to the lower 48 states profitable. Murkowski had negotiated a deal with the Big Three oil companies of Alaska - BP (BP), ExxonMobil (XOM, Fortune 500), and ConocoPhillips (COP, Fortune 500), which hold long-term North Slope leases - to finance and build a pipeline to get the 235 trillion cubic feet of natural gas estimated to be buried under the North Slope to market. The deal guaranteed a tax cut for the oil companies, and promised that Alaska wouldn't change those rates for decades.

But when Murkowski brought the proposal to the Alaska statehouse, it was rejected as a sweetheart deal for the oil companies. Several of the governor's negotiators were later indicted, accused of making back-room deals with the industry. Voters subsequently booted Murkowski from office. You don't mess with revenues from oil and gas in Alaska, because it goes into Alaska's Permanent Fund, which sends a check to each resident every year.

Once in office, Palin took an aggressive stance toward the oil companies. Her nickname from high-school basketball, "Sarah Barracuda," was resurrected in the press. Early in her term, she shocked oil lobbyists when she was so bold as to not show up when Exxon CEO Rex Tillerson came to Juneau to meet with her. Palin, after scrapping Murkowski's deal, would not give Big Oil the terms they wanted, yet insisted that the companies still had an obligation under their lease to deliver gas to whatever pipeline Alaska built. She invited the oil companies to place open bids to build a pipeline, but they refused. A bid by TransCanada, North America's largest pipeline builder, was approved by the legislature in August.

Palin also raised taxes on oil companies after Murkowski's previous tax regime produced falling revenues in 2007, despite skyrocketing oil prices. Alaska now has some of the highest resource taxes in the world. Alaska's oil tax revenues are expected to be about $10 billion in 2008, twice those of previous year. BP says about half its oil revenues now go to taxes, when royalty payments to the state are included. Earlier this week, Palin approved gas tax relief for Alaskans, and paid every resident $1,200 to help ease their fuel-price burden.

To be sure, it would be an overstatement to brand Palin as an enemy of Big Oil. Her husband works as a production supervisor for BP. And her support for drilling in the Alaska Natural Wildlife Reserve, as well as exploiting Alaska's natural gas resources, certainly won't endear her to environmentalists. "Personally, I have respect for the industry," she said in an interview with Fortune last year, "for the contributions it's made to our state ... and great respect for what their CEOs are doing. We know their mission, to take as much as possible and leave as little behind."

“Friend of Big Oil”? Perhaps a mischaracterization.

And then the Republicans decide to field this guy:

http://screenrant.com/images/the-incredible-hulk-trailer.jpg

At least they have a chance at capturing the Green vote then.

Then the Democrats announce their running mate

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/40/Batmanlee.png

They get corporate lobbyists.

At least they have a chance at capturing the Green vote then.

At which point they'd be accused of being in the pockets of the nuclear industry.

Really, was there any point to McCain choosing her? She's quite inexperienced, and if he were going for the females' votes, I'm sure there were a few much more suitable candidatesHe caught up to Obama in the polls and being McCain, he just couldn't give up his position as runner up without a fight.

Would Colbert say that? I don't think so. Jon Stewart maybe...

She can strip away votes from Obama by being a 'reformist' and also a woman


Point one. She is in no ways a reformist. Shes a neocon and a religious nut.

Point two. Any woman who voted for Hillary out of some misguided feminist principle will immeditally back away from her once they see shes anti-choice. Feminists dont like taking away a woman's right to her own body.

Who's Palin? Someone who just threw out any argument against Obama on age or experience.

With George McCain being 72 and having health issues, plus the stress the job puts on someone, Palin would be closer than most VPs to assuming power. We don't need ZERO experience over a fair bit of experience.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/29/news/newsmakers/palin_oil.fortune/index.htm :



“Friend of Big Oil”? Perhaps a mischaracterization.

That would win my vote...



..as well as the rather MILFy looks :fluffle:

Err yep.

She can strip away votes from Obama by being a 'reformist' and also a woman.

So's Obama...

Such as?

And that's why Hillary would have been better. :hail:

1) Palin has a vagina.

2) They think women will vote for anything that has a vagina, especially if they were formerly Hillary supporters.

3) How much do you want to bet that before long we'll be hearing rightwing radio puppets talking about how much more progressive McCain is than Obama because McCain is running with a woman while Obama is running with a white guy?

4) So, in the hope that she will confuse and split the female vote, Palin is a political monkey wrench to throw into the works. A monkey wrench with a vagina attached.

5) She's a friend of Big Oil.

6) In fact forget points 1-4. Once you count that she's a friend of Big Oil, what other point do you need to put her on the ticket?


There was that rich ebay woman who they say is very capable, but apparently she's very smart too, because it seems like she turned down the offer.
With that sort of logic I'm surprised they didn't go for a twofer and nominated a sheep instead. Then they could've played on "vote for ewe" and gotten the stupid vote as well.

Point one. She is in no ways a reformist. Shes a neocon and a religious nut.

Well, that should win McCain some additional votes, actually. Religious insanity apparently is one of the foundations upon which the USA was founded.

By the way, Sarah Palin rhymes with Josef Stalin. Now that's not relevant at all and even a rather childish thing to say, but if she had been a Democrat, the Fox News Network executives would gladly have given me a big bag of money for that little gem.

Sarah Palin:

Anti-abortion.
Doesn't believe in evolution.
Loves Jesus, hates homos.
Embroiled in an ethics scandal.
The perfect Republican.

My initial instinct was much like everyone else, that this was an insane choice. Yet it's so insane for all the reasons mentioned on multiple threads as well as most news outlets that I can hardly believe it.

So I'm holding back my judgement - she seems to have a very attractive personality and style despite no substance and she might just be great on television.

I'll be very interested to hear her speech at the convention and I'll be really interested in debates with Joe Biden.

Right now it look a crazy choice but give it a month and it may look a little different.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/29/news/newsmakers/palin_oil.fortune/index.htm :



“Friend of Big Oil”? Perhaps a mischaracterization.

Political media spin bullshit. Palin supports drilling. Big Oil wants to drill. Quibbling over "terms" is just for the cameras. The past 20 or more years of Alaskan politics have revolved around the fight between oil development and environmentalists, and the Alaskan state government has always sided with development (they haven't always won, but they've always been on that side) which is what the oil companies want to hear. If you think for one second that, public quibbling aside, Ms. Palin would ever support any measure that would allow drilling but NOT be profitable to the oil companies, then you must be on something, friend.

Would Colbert say that? I don't think so. Jon Stewart maybe...

I actually made this thread just after he said that on his show last night. Colbert "assumed" she was some radio constest winner so she got to meet McCain.

By the way, Sarah Palin rhymes with Josef Stalin.

Great, so now it's down to electing Bin Laden or Stalin...

By the way, have y'all seen the Repuplican candidate lately? Here's a pic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Skeleton2.jpg

Don't flame me, I have your best interests at heart

Well, that should win McCain some additional votes, actually. Religious insanity apparently is one of the foundations upon which the USA was founded.
how so? Surely that sector of the USA (the religious extremos) were always going to vote for McCain anyway. The ones who believe in creationism, anti-abortion, no-global warming, anti-gay, pro-guns, anti-environmentalism are hardly going to vote for a Democrat, let alone a (looks around and leans to whisper) coloured Democrat.
So her right-wing views are hardly going to garner McCain any more votes. Which leads us back to what everyone is saying: She was picked in a desperate attempt to woo women voters.
No doubt McCain's pollsters found he's doing poorly among the female voter population + they think Hilary supporters will vote for anything in a dress. tbh it wouldn't have surprised me if McCain had tried to campaign wearing one.

No doubt McCain's pollsters found he's doing poorly among the female voter population + they think Hilary supporters will vote for anything in a dress. tbh it wouldn't have surprised me if McCain had tried to campaign wearing one.

He'd lose the anti-ugly-old-crossdresser vote.

She was picked in a desperate attempt to woo women voters.

No doubt McCain's pollsters found he's doing poorly among the female voter population + they think Hilary supporters will vote for anything in a dress. tbh it wouldn't have surprised me if McCain had tried to campaign wearing one.

I just can't believe this, I really can't. It seems so pointedly obvious that John McCain and the Republican election committee would have to be naive idiots to base the decision on this.

I somewhat think that John McCain is simply cracking under pressure, he's simply becoming senile yet another part says that she won Alaska not on policy but on personality.

Is there an advantage to be gained by taking the initial criticism and then, as people get to see her on TV and more, a feeling of 'hey, she's not that bad', as opposed to the oft seen sentiment that Barack Obama presumes the presidency.

I mean she can only go up in public opinion from anonymous and I just feel that she might be very personable.

Honestly, 99% of me says this was a bizarre choice, yet so bizarre that I feel I must be missing something and, since she's unknown, I wonder.

Nothing has been consistent from John McCain, from calling out Barack Obama on experience to selecting an inexperienced VP, it's just so odd.

I'd really like to see her on the public stage, I think it will be interesting to see how her personality plays.

He'd lose the anti-ugly-old-crossdresser vote.

Yeah, but then he'd get my vote, which is more important than the 300 million anti-ugly-old-crossdresser votes.

Yeah, but then he'd get my vote, which is more important than the 300 million anti-ugly-old-crossdresser votes.

You're pro-ugly-old-crossdresser? o_O

I just can't believe this, I really can't. It seems so pointedly obvious that John McCain and the Republican election committee would have to be naive idiots to base the decision on this.
Well, hey, guess what?

Actually, it's an open question whether they are naive idiots, or cynical manipulators, or cynical idiots, or naive manipulators.

I somewhat think that John McCain is simply cracking under pressure, he's simply becoming senile yet another part says that she won Alaska not on policy but on personality.

Is there an advantage to be gained by taking the initial criticism and then, as people get to see her on TV and more, a feeling of 'hey, she's not that bad', as opposed to the oft seen sentiment that Barack Obama presumes the presidency.
Yes, actually, that potential advantage does exist, especially among those who will refuse to vote for Obama even though they suspect that voting for McCain is a mistake. Anything that can possibly be used to calm their nerves will get them to cast the desired vote.

I mean she can only go up in public opinion from anonymous and I just feel that she might be very personable.
That's not necessarily true. She could easily plummet from zero to negative depending on what she does. Let's hope.

Honestly, 99% of me says this was a bizarre choice, yet so bizarre that I feel I must be missing something and, since she's unknown, I wonder.

Nothing has been consistent from John McCain, from calling out Barack Obama on experience to selecting an inexperienced VP, it's just so odd.

I'd really like to see her on the public stage, I think it will be interesting to see how her personality plays.
I don't understand why it seems to odd to you. To me, it's obvious that McCain is running a reactive campaign. He is not proactively putting together a team that will make for an effective administration if he should win. He is reactively putting together a ticket that will counter, with maximum sound/video bite potential, anything the Obama team puts out. You want to see the sense of what McCain does -- just lay it next to what Obama does.

I'd really like to see her on the public stage, I think it will be interesting to see how her personality plays.


Being close to Alaska here in the NW we do follow a bit on Alaskan politics. I have seen this woman speak before and she is very personable and likeable in my opinion. I think most of middle America could identify with her. This is where I think the Republicans made a risky but calculated move in picking her. I think the election at this moment has swung in the Republican favor.

You're pro-ugly-old-crossdresser? o_O

Yes, you have a preoblem with that? I suppose next you're gonna make fun of me for being a not-so-secret muslim too.

I don't understand why it seems to odd to you. To me, it's obvious that McCain is running a reactive campaign. He is not proactively putting together a team that will make for an effective administration if he should win. He is reactively putting together a ticket that will counter, with maximum sound/video bite potential, anything the Obama team puts out. You want to see the sense of what McCain does -- just lay it next to what Obama does.

Call me paranoid because I just don't believe that there wasn't more to this decision than simple reaction - it was certainly my initial thought and I'd written a post on the other thread then deleted it so I could both sleep and then read as much as I could on the subject.

Everything screams what you've written, and perhaps it's simply true and still, in the final analysis, it won't matter because she's just great TV material.

I saw 2000, I saw 2004, perhaps I'm just cynical.

Being close to Alaska here in the NW we do follow a bit on Alaskan politics. I have seen this woman speak before and she is very personable and likeable in my opinion. I think most of middle America could identify with her. This is where I think the Republicans made a risky but calculated move in picking her. I think the election at this moment has swung in the Republican favor.

I think this election is more about whether people want to vote for Barack Obama, he certainly defines the election choice, it's about creating a friendly alternative.

I hate being cynical like this, I really do.

I think this election is more about whether people want to vote for Barack Obama, he certainly defines the election choice, it's about creating a friendly alternative.

I hate being cynical like this, I really do.


Cynical? Just a realist.

I just can't believe this, I really can't. It seems so pointedly obvious that John McCain and the Republican election committee would have to be naive idiots to base the decision on this.

I somewhat think that John McCain is simply cracking under pressure, he's simply becoming senile yet another part says that she won Alaska not on policy but on personality.

Is there an advantage to be gained by taking the initial criticism and then, as people get to see her on TV and more, a feeling of 'hey, she's not that bad', as opposed to the oft seen sentiment that Barack Obama presumes the presidency.

I mean she can only go up in public opinion from anonymous and I just feel that she might be very personable.

Honestly, 99% of me says this was a bizarre choice, yet so bizarre that I feel I must be missing something and, since she's unknown, I wonder.

Nothing has been consistent from John McCain, from calling out Barack Obama on experience to selecting an inexperienced VP, it's just so odd.

I'd really like to see her on the public stage, I think it will be interesting to see how her personality plays.
she is MY kind of woman. a self made small town girl with spunk. a woman who will not worry about breaking a nail when she goes out on her husbands fishing boat--FISHING BOAT not some freaking rich guys yacht. a woman who has worked her way into the governorship by doing the kind of thing that most newcomers to politics wont do--take on the corruption of her own party.

if she really has national ambitions she will be a force to be reckoned with in 10 years or so when she has had a chance to work her way up to it.

right now she seems somewhat less of a good choice than dan quayle was in '88. she is young and personable but has no washinton connections. she is being thrown to the sharks without much of a life preserver to keep her head above water while they try to tear her guts out.

im looking foward to her acceptance speech next week.

she is MY kind of woman. a self made small town girl with spunk. a woman who will not worry about breaking a nail when she goes out on her husbands fishing boat--FISHING BOAT not some freaking rich guys yacht. a woman who has worked her way into the governorship by doing the kind of thing that most newcomers to politics wont do--take on the corruption of her own party.

if she really has national ambitions she will be a force to be reckoned with in 10 years or so when she has had a chance to work her way up to it.

right now she seems somewhat less of a good choice than dan quayle was in '88. she is young and personable but has no washinton connections. she is being thrown to the sharks without much of a life preserver to keep her head above water while they try to tear her guts out.

im looking foward to her acceptance speech next week.

Here's hoping the system and sharks don't corrupt her. Maybe in a few more years she could have been a good pick, but right now for this election seemed too early.

Call me paranoid because I just don't believe that there wasn't more to this decision than simple reaction - it was certainly my initial thought and I'd written a post on the other thread then deleted it so I could both sleep and then read as much as I could on the subject.

Everything screams what you've written, and perhaps it's simply true and still, in the final analysis, it won't matter because she's just great TV material.

I saw 2000, I saw 2004, perhaps I'm just cynical.

Of course there are other reasons why they picked HER, rather than any other former beauty queen.

She is a loyal water-carrier for the rightwing. She is a staunch champion of the US religious fundamentalist, conservative social agenda -- anti-choice, anti-gay marriage, anti-some-other-stuff-too -- and, being a woman, she is the ideal spokesmodel for it because it will allow them to portray that platform as not out of keeping with women's rights issues. I mean, if a woman supports it... etc. Also, she is not an obviously dominant personality, so that will undermine claims that a McCain admin will be just a repeat of the Bush admin, because she is clearly no Dick Cheney. Of course, that's just superficial window dressing of how a McCain admin would look, but looks, it seems, are all that matter in US elections.

Oh, and the oil companies will accept her.

she is MY kind of woman. a self made small town girl with spunk. a woman who will not worry about breaking a nail when she goes out on her husbands fishing boat--FISHING BOAT not some freaking rich guys yacht. a woman who has worked her way into the governorship by doing the kind of thing that most newcomers to politics wont do--take on the corruption of her own party.

if she really has national ambitions she will be a force to be reckoned with in 10 years or so when she has had a chance to work her way up to it.

right now she seems somewhat less of a good choice than dan quayle was in '88. she is young and personable but has no washinton connections. she is being thrown to the sharks without much of a life preserver to keep her head above water while they try to tear her guts out.

im looking foward to her acceptance speech next week.
I am actually surprised that you would think of her as such an innocent and relatively pure figure in politics.

To me, her (admittedly short) history of flip-flopping on issues such as ear-marks (she was for the bridge-to-nowhere before she was against it, apparently), backroom dealing with private business, and high-handed use of public offices for personal affairs (the apparent subject of the ethics investigation she is currently under), mark her as at least a trained politician, if not a seasoned one. I think Ms. Palin has little to fear from the other sharks in the tank.

Point one. She is in no ways a reformist. Shes a neocon and a religious nut.
Quite true. Doesn't mean they can't play the "she's a reforist" card, mind. She might not want to give gays rights herself, but she actually did (albeit basically under duress), and heh, that makes her a reformer or something, right?

I couldn't write a Republican ad. But there are people who could, and will just restructure what I said.
Point two. Any woman who voted for Hillary out of some misguided feminist principle will immeditally back away from her once they see shes anti-choice. Feminists dont like taking away a woman's right to her own body.
We'll see when it comes to the results as to whether this actually stacks up. I think there will now be a significant amount of female Democrats who know won't vote, more than anything else.
And that's why Hillary would have been better. :hail:
Probably, aye.

I actually made this thread just after he said that on his show last night. Colbert "assumed" she was some radio constest winner so she got to meet McCain.

Huh. Out of character for him :tongue:

Apologies for my mistake regardless ;)

I am actually surprised that you would think of her as such an innocent and relatively pure figure in politics.

To me, her (admittedly short) history of flip-flopping on issues such as ear-marks (she was for the bridge-to-nowhere before she was against it, apparently), backroom dealing with private business, and high-handed use of public offices for personal affairs (the apparent subject of the ethics investigation she is currently under), mark her as at least a trained politician, if not a seasoned one. I think Ms. Palin has little to fear from the other sharks in the tank.
shes not seasoned. she is in a small tank.

as evidenced by her ham-handed firing of the guy who would not fire her ex brother in law.

I can see McCain's choice on these grounds.

1) It removes the "historical" value of voting Democrat. after all, the first Female VP and if she wins, she could become the first woman President.

2) off set's the age thing that is a frequent attack on McCain.

3) If you think that removes attacks on Obama's inexperience... relalize she's running for VP. not President. which would people rather have, an Inexperienced President with an Experienced VP or an Experienced President and Inexperienced VP?

4) A Tempting alternative to Hillary supporters

5) Relatively unknown so it removes some heat from McCain as people try to dig up dirt on her.

6) Her viewpoints appeals to most conservatives yet can be a draw to more liberal minded people.

However, how she handles herself in this campaign will be more telling than anything that could be dug up on her.

Ah I see. Don't watch much Colbert, find him too smug.

That's a bit like saying "I don't like Ali G. because I find him too clueless."

I can see McCain's choice on these grounds.

1) It removes the "historical" value of voting Democrat. after all, the first Female VP and if she wins, she could become the first woman President.

2) off set's the age thing that is a frequent attack on McCain.

3) If you think that removes attacks on Obama's inexperience... relalize she's running for VP. not President. which would people rather have, an Inexperienced President with an Experienced VP or an Experienced President and Inexperienced VP?

4) A Tempting alternative to Hillary supporters

5) Relatively unknown so it removes some heat from McCain as people try to dig up dirt on her.

6) Her viewpoints appeals to most conservatives yet can be a draw to more liberal minded people.

However, how she handles herself in this campaign will be more telling than anything that could be dug up on her.

yes. as with any candidate, you cant tell if she'll hurt or help until she starts campaigning.

but her inexperience is more important now than it was in '88 with dan quayle (for example) because of mccain's age. there is a good chance that if he gets elected he will not serve out his full term. he needs a vp who is as ready as he is to be president.

And it'll be poetic justice if the ghost of Geraldine Ferraro came to bite the Republicans in the ass. Yes, she's still alive but I'm referring to how they shot down the Mondale/Ferraro bid.

My little bro's e-mail just hit it on the head...

Revamp of the Bentsen-Quayle exchange...

J.Biden: "I know Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton is a good friend of mine, and Governor, you're no Hillary Clinton!"

I may strongly, very, very strongly dislike Hillary, but I know for sure Palin isn't even near in the same league.

My little bro's e-mail just hit it on the head...

Revamp of the Bentsen-Quayle exchange...

J.Biden: "I know Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton is a good friend of mine, and Governor, you're no Hillary Clinton!"

I may strongly, very, very strongly dislike Hillary, but I know for sure Palin isn't even near in the same league.

How good will she be at the spelling bee?

:D

3) If you think that removes attacks on Obama's inexperience... relalize she's running for VP. not President. which would people rather have, an Inexperienced President with an Experienced VP or an Experienced President and Inexperienced VP?

Given McCain's age, health issues, and the stress of the job, his choice of VP is very important. The US cannot at all afford to put the mayor of Wasilla Alaska in what will amount to the driver's seat when McCain kicks it.

All that needs be said for this choice is:President Palin.

If anyone can really honestly expect this person would be a good choice for the office, I'll be sore dissapointed.

shes not seasoned. she is in a small tank.

as evidenced by her ham-handed firing of the guy who would not fire her ex brother in law.
How does that indicate a lack of ability? Sounds like standard operating procedure for US pols.

Anyway, I'm sure there must be some procedural issue involved in that matter that is the point of the investigation because, from what little I've heard about the situation, her ex brother in law needed firing (and maybe a bunch else, too). It certainly does not appear to be a matter of political corruption in any way, but if it is an ethics investigation (and a bi-partisan investigation at that), then that suggests potentially a willingness to use power for personal ends in a manner that would make Ms. Palin fit right in with the current rightwingers club in Washington.

Also, I didn't say she was seasoned. I said she has training in how to play the game, and her short record indicates to me that she has the spine for the game, too. I think of politicians as being like sharks. A young, small shark is still a shark, nonetheless. It enters the shark world equipped with everything it needs to be a good shark, and if it has the nerve and talent to go with the tools, then it will get to be a big shark even in a world of other big sharks.

You talk about Ms. Palin as if you see her as a goldfish. No, I am confident that she's a shark, just like the others. At least enough of a shark for the job they've picked out for her.

yes. as with any candidate, you cant tell if she'll hurt or help until she starts campaigning.

but her inexperience is more important now than it was in '88 with dan quayle (for example) because of mccain's age. there is a good chance that if he gets elected he will not serve out his full term. he needs a vp who is as ready as he is to be president.

just as good as Dan Quayle with Bush Sr.

just as good as Dan Quayle with Bush Sr.

Bush Senior was fine for his one term- as long as you kept him away from broccoli and sashimi.

How good will she be at the spelling bee?

:D

You spell it "potatoe", we spell it "poatato", lets call the "hole" thing off...

Bush Senior was fine for his one term- as long as you kept him away from broccoli and sashimi.

and the same could be said for McCain... except replace "keep him away from Broccoli and Sashimi" with "pump him full of vitamins". :tongue:

yes. as with any candidate, you cant tell if she'll hurt or help until she starts campaigning.

but her inexperience is more important now than it was in '88 with dan quayle (for example) because of mccain's age. there is a good chance that if he gets elected he will not serve out his full term. he needs a vp who is as ready as he is to be president.

Exactly so. And honestly, IMNSHO, I'd be more qualified than she is....

Exactly so. And honestly, IMNSHO, I'd be more qualified than she is....

you're govenor of a state? :eek2: :p

Such as?

Kay Bailey Hutchison and Carly Fiorina, to name a couple.

From an outside observer... it seems to me that McCain's choice is just saying "one woman is as good as another" and generally that women are interchangeable. I hope that female voters just get pissed off at this attitude and don't vote for him because of it... I'm tired of my southern neighbours electing idiots.

I have some small hope of women seeing past the vagina to see the anti-abortion, anti-science nutjob that it's attached to. Furthermore, she could easily cost McCain Florida as he's now stuck a VP who has repeatedly supported Buchanan, to the point of doing fundraisers for his 2000 presidential run.

From an outside observer... it seems to me that McCain's choice is just saying "one woman is as good as another" and generally that women are interchangeable. I hope that female voters just get pissed off at this attitude and don't vote for him because of it.

Palin is not a woman, Palin is a merchandise: I Can't Believe It's Not Hillary.

and the same could be said for McCain... except replace "keep him away from Broccoli and Sashimi" with "pump him full of vitamins". :tongue:

One might want to keep the nuc mon away as well.... Flashbacks and all that jazz. Let us recall the round before last of Swift Boating, when the GOP establishment found McCain unfit in due to his instability for having been a POW. If he was unfit then, why is he suddenly now fit? (Note: I didn't agree with this argument from the deserter in 2000, and I don't believe it now. I just ask for consistancy from the deserter in chief's party. If anyone wants to know why I'm not voting GOP like I did in '88, '92, '96, and '00, consider the impact of how the deserter treated McCain and Kerry, genuine war heros... The GOP has turned their back on the military...)

Palin is not a woman, Palin is a merchandise: I Can't Believe It's Not Hillary.
Yeah, but that's how campaign managers see all voters -- as merchandise to be bought and sold. "Woman" is just one category.

you're govenor of a state? :eek2: :p

As an expat, I have more experience in Foreign Policy, the baliwick of the president...

One might want to keep the nuc mon away as well.... Flashbacks and all that jazz. Let us recall the round before last of Swift Boating, when the GOP establishment found McCain unfit in due to his instability for having been a POW. If he was unfit then, why is he suddenly now fit? (Note: I didn't agree with this argument from the deserter in 2000, and I don't believe it now. I just ask for consistancy from the deserter in chief's party. If anyone wants to know why I'm not voting GOP like I did in '88, '92, '96, and '00, consider the impact of how the deserter treated McCain and Kerry, genuine war heros... The GOP has turned their back on the military...)

It's the Republican way. Trash a valuable resource when it's not needed, then when it suddenly becomes important you dig it out of the commode, wash and polish it then wave it around. Even McCain did it with that ad that tried to associate Obama with Britney Spears and Paris Hilton... especially when the Hiltons contributed to McCain's war chest as Jon Stuart pointed out.

"Excuse me while I take a dump on your daughter... uh are my Hilton Points still good?"

Given McCain's age, health issues, and the stress of the job, his choice of VP is very important. The US cannot at all afford to put the mayor of Wasilla Alaska in what will amount to the driver's seat when McCain kicks it.

All that needs be said for this choice is:President Palin.

If anyone can really honestly expect this person would be a good choice for the office, I'll be sore dissapointed.
realise your argument here.

What you are nailing Palin for, her experience or lack there of, is the same argument against Obama. the only difference is that one relies on the Elected president kicking the bucket while the other only has to be elected.

As an expat, I have more experience in Foreign Policy, the baliwick of the president...
Americans don't know what a bailiwick is. ;)

Kay Bailey Hutchison and Carly Fiorina, to name a couple.

Indeed. KBH may have been a good choice. Little ms. beauty queen small town mayor was not.

One might want to keep the nuc mon away as well.... Flashbacks and all that jazz. Let us recall the round before last of Swift Boating, when the GOP establishment found McCain unfit in due to his instability for having been a POW. If he was unfit then, why is he suddenly now fit? (Note: I didn't agree with this argument from the deserter in 2000, and I don't believe it now. I just ask for consistancy from the deserter in chief's party. If anyone wants to know why I'm not voting GOP like I did in '88, '92, '96, and '00, consider the impact of how the deserter treated McCain and Kerry, genuine war heros... The GOP has turned their back on the military...)

nothing wrong with those reasons. :cool:

As an expat, I have more experience in Foreign Policy, the baliwick of the president...

Hey. She visited Kuwait! :D

realise your argument here.

What you are nailing Palin for, her experience or lack there of, is the same argument against Obama. the only difference is that one relies on the Elected president kicking the bucket while the other only has to be elected.

Actually, Obama has more experience, starting with childhood years lived overseas. I see the argument that Obama is "inexperienced" as a false flag.

Americans don't know what a bailiwick is. ;)

Some of us do...

nothing wrong with those reasons. :cool:

I still take serious issue with George W. Deserter"s trashing of both McCain and Kerry's records. There may be an issue at hand, but not if one desereted a cushy post during wartime.

Hey. She visited Kuwait! :D

Ya'll know better than to argue that, Mr. Devil's advocate... ;)

How does that indicate a lack of ability? Sounds like standard operating procedure for US pols.

Anyway, I'm sure there must be some procedural issue involved in that matter that is the point of the investigation because, from what little I've heard about the situation, her ex brother in law needed firing (and maybe a bunch else, too). It certainly does not appear to be a matter of political corruption in any way, but if it is an ethics investigation (and a bi-partisan investigation at that), then that suggests potentially a willingness to use power for personal ends in a manner that would make Ms. Palin fit right in with the current rightwingers club in Washington.

Also, I didn't say she was seasoned. I said she has training in how to play the game, and her short record indicates to me that she has the spine for the game, too. I think of politicians as being like sharks. A young, small shark is still a shark, nonetheless. It enters the shark world equipped with everything it needs to be a good shark, and if it has the nerve and talent to go with the tools, then it will get to be a big shark even in a world of other big sharks.

You talk about Ms. Palin as if you see her as a goldfish. No, I am confident that she's a shark, just like the others. At least enough of a shark for the job they've picked out for her.
its a big jump to go from juneau to washington dc. she has no political connections there. or very few. as far as i can tell she hasnt even been preparing mentally for the challenge of running for VP (since she wasnt in the running until recently). think for a moment how a season pol like al gore let his handlers turn him into a robot in the '00 race. it will take amazing strength of character for her to stand up to the reigning experts of image management and stay her own woman.

she may be up to it, time will tell, but it would take an extraordinary person to go from "new big fish/small pond" to "powerless big fish in the biggest pond in the world" and make it work.

Actually, Obama has more experience, starting with childhood years lived overseas. I see the argument that Obama is "inexperienced" as a false flag.
Living overseas and being a diplomat are two different things.

I Grew up in a multicultural neighborhood, that doesn't make me a diplomat nor does that do jack for any foriegn policy experience I might want to claim.

and if you see arguments about Obama being inexperienced as a false flag the same can be said for Palin who lead her state for a couple of years.

Basically, the GOP is using Palin to make people realize how much experience would be a factor. Palin is running for VP so any damage is still minimized. they (the GOP) can still attack Obama on his lack of Experience while any attack on Palin's lack will be seen as petty since she is NOT running for Pres. a trap many people here are already falling into.

realise your argument here.

What you are nailing Palin for, her experience or lack there of, is the same argument against Obama. the only difference is that one relies on the Elected president kicking the bucket while the other only has to be elected.

Not at all. Palin's not merely "inexperienced," she's, by all indications, a local politician through and through. I've seen little evidence so far that she even has foreign policy opinions, and I could only guess at what they are. Nothing on her resume suggests she's prepared to deal with issues on a national or international level, something Obama's done on a regular basis in the Senate.

Ya'll know better than to argue that, Mr. Devil's advocate... ;)

:p :D :p

Not at all. Palin's not merely "inexperienced," she's, by all indications, a local politician through and through. I've seen little evidence so far that she even has foreign policy opinions, and I could only guess at what they are. Nothing on her resume suggests she's prepared to deal with issues on a national or international level, something Obama's done on a regular basis in the Senate.

ah, but how much influence did Obama have while in the Senate?

ah, but how much influence did Obama have while in the Senate?

I don't follow you. Why is influence significant?

realise your argument here.

What you are nailing Palin for, her experience or lack there of, is the same argument against Obama. the only difference is that one relies on the Elected president kicking the bucket while the other only has to be elected.
you need to think through that one again.

if this were before the campaigning started, one could say that obama and palin were equally unqualfied for the job--or lightly qualfied in different ways perhaps. it was a bold move for obama to think that he had the slightest chance of winning the nomination.

but it is today and MILLIONS of people have agreed that obama is a good candidate for president. MILLIONS of people have heard him talk, seen him campaign, and reacted to his policies. MILLIONS of people have decided that they prefer him to half a dozen more experienced candidates.

ONE person has decided that palin is a good candidate for VP. ONE person has (suddenly) decided that experience is meaningless in a candidate whose job would have only one requirement--to be ready to take over as president of the united states. ONE person picked her over a dozen more experienced candidates.

I don't follow you. Why is influence significant?

because it was flaunted here that "Nothing on her resume suggests she's prepared to deal with issues on a national or international level, something Obama's done on a regular basis in the Senate."

yet if all Obama has on his Resume that he's "been on the Senate" then that's not much of an improvement.

What national or international issues did Obama spearhead and succeed?
What did he put forth and see to completion?
If the excuse is "but the Rep blocked him" then how is that any indication that he can unite both parties?

you need to think through that one again.

if this were before the campaigning started, one could say that obama and palin were equally unqualfied for the job--or lightly qualfied in different ways perhaps. it was a bold move for obama to think that he had the slightest chance of winning the nomination.

but it is today and MILLIONS of people have agreed that obama is a good candidate for president. MILLIONS of people have heard him talk, seen him campaign, and reacted to his policies. MILLIONS of people have decided that they prefer him to half a dozen more experienced candidates.

ONE person has decided that palin is a good candidate for VP. ONE person has (suddenly) decided that experience is meaningless in a candidate whose job would have only one requirement--to be ready to take over as president of the united states. ONE person picked her over a dozen more experienced candidates.

and I also know that the choice of VP also makes or breaks elections. I'm not saying Palin is a good choice. but I am marvelling at the arguments against Palin. Being that most are the same against Obama and now being said by Obama supporters.

I agree that Obama can talk the great talk, but for an election to the highest office in the USA, people will say anything to get elected.

and I also know that the choice of VP also makes or breaks elections. I'm not saying Palin is a good choice. but I am marvelling at the arguments against Palin. Being that most are the same against Obama and now being said by Obama supporters.

I agree that Obama can talk the great talk, but for an election to the highest office in the USA, people will say anything to get elected.
vp choice seldom makes or breaks an election.

palin has to play a very fast make-up game. she is far behind everyone else who has been in this race this time around. she HAS NO national policies. she has never had to figure out what is best for the whole country; its never been her job. there is no reason to think that she has a better idea of how the country should be run than any random person on the street does.

all she is is a woman that no one knows anything about other than that she is absurdly conservative. thats not a great recommendation for herself or for the judgement of john mccain.

--snip--
The number of people who chose you or thought you can do the job does not accurately reflect the actual capability of doing the job. ;)

vp choice seldom makes or breaks an election.

palin has to play a very fast make-up game. she is far behind everyone else who has been in this race this time around. she HAS NO national policies. she has never had to figure out what is best for the whole country; its never been her job. there is no reason to think that she has a better idea of how the country should be run than any random person on the street does.

all she is is a woman that no one knows anything about other than that she is absurdly conservative. thats not a great recommendation for herself or for the judgement of john mccain.

not really. she doesn't have to play make-up because as VP she makes no National Policies, she doesn't have to figure out what is best for the whole country because it's not her job. That's the job of the PRESIDENT. Her job (to put it VERY LIGHTLY) is to back the Presidental candidate.

What the GOP wants is for people to ATTACK her because that removes the heat off of the President. Any effort to attack the VP is a wasted effort.

not really. she doesn't have to play make-up because as VP she makes no National Policies, she doesn't have to figure out what is best for the whole country because it's not her job. That's the job of the PRESIDENT. Her job (to put it VERY LIGHTLY) is to back the President.

What the GOP wants is for people to ATTACK her because that removes the heat off of the President. Any effort to attack the VP is a wasted effort.
you need to think THAT through again too.

the vp is not just a pretty face and never has been. ms palin is going to have to campaign. she is going to have to debate mr biden. she is going to have to be seen to be a GOOD choice for vp. its not going to be an easy thing.

you need to think THAT through again too.

the vp is not just a pretty face and never has been. ms palin is going to have to campaign. she is going to have to debate mr biden. she is going to have to be seen to be a GOOD choice for vp. its not going to be an easy thing.
and there's alot you need to think about also.

Your switching from making "national policy" and "deciding what's best for the country" to electorial debates with Mr Biden? (which is purely voluntary)

and before that it was bout popularity and who is chosen by whom to making national policy and deciding what's best for the country?

Whether or not she can hold her own with Mr Biden remains to be seen. whether or not she can show America she can be a great/good/competant or none of the above VP remains to be seen.

I for one, tho. will give her that chance.

its a big jump to go from juneau to washington dc. she has no political connections there. or very few. as far as i can tell she hasnt even been preparing mentally for the challenge of running for VP (since she wasnt in the running until recently). think for a moment how a season pol like al gore let his handlers turn him into a robot in the '00 race. it will take amazing strength of character for her to stand up to the reigning experts of image management and stay her own woman.

she may be up to it, time will tell, but it would take an extraordinary person to go from "new big fish/small pond" to "powerless big fish in the biggest pond in the world" and make it work.
How do you know what political connections she has and where?

Also, do you really think they would have tapped her for the job if she was not likely to have whatever skills they want her to have? Note, I'm not saying that she is necessarily likely to be competent to be VP. I'm only saying it is a safe bet that she can do whatever the RNC and McCain's campaign managers want her to do. What more do you expect?

Also, I'm cynical enough to think that "strength of character" is NOT one of the traits that made her the running mate. I mean, seriously, look who's she's running with. Obedience to the party line, an on-camera image that the spin doctors can work with, and a willingness to do whatever it takes, use whatever tools she can, to fulfill her/the party's agenda and look good doing it (even if that means just appearing to submit to and support McCain like a second wife at every event, to make him look like he's in charge of something) are, I think, the far more valuable abilities she is likely to have for the job they are asking her to do. In fact, I'll be cynical (and bitchy) enough to say that I have confidence that Ms. Palin can bend herself into all kinds of compliant positions and still be "her own woman," that is, the person she really is.

I suggested earlier that she might be used as a kind of anti-Cheney. The more I look at her, the more she reminds me of certain Cheney underlings of the past several years. I'm starting to wonder if the McCain team is thinking they'll need another Scooter Libby more than another Cheney.

I think I should point out, by the way, that I am so vehemently opposed to the idea of McCain as president that I actually wouldn't mind if he had picked a running mate who wouldn't be able to handle the position, who would come apart under the pressure, maybe even have multiple furious, crying meltdowns on camera -- one who would go down in flames and take McCain with her. (EDIT: Or one who would be so ruined by the campaign handlers that she'd end up sucking the life out of the campaign.) But I do not think any of that will happen. I think Palin will do exactly what they want and do it just fine, with a crown-winning smile and a gracious wave the entire time.

I seriously believe she could win votes for that son-of-a-bitch.

and there's alot you need to think about also.

Your switching from making "national policy" and "deciding what's best for the country" to electorial debates with Mr Biden? (which is purely voluntary)

and before that it was bout popularity and who is chosen by whom to making national policy and deciding what's best for the country?

Whether or not she can hold her own with Mr Biden remains to be seen. whether or not she can show America she can be a great/good/competant or none of the above VP remains to be seen.

I for one, tho. will give her that chance.
you didnt give me anything to think about. yeah i change what i say as i respond to you. thats what people do. if you have a point, make it.

of course, we dont know this woman. we'll see how she'll do soon enough. at first glance, she doesnt seem to be what he needs to move the electorate.

of course, we dont know this woman. we'll see how she'll do soon enough. at first glance, she doesnt seem to be what he needs to move the electorate.hence the wait and see.

This didn't take long... (http://www.grizzlybay.org/SarahPalinInfoPage.htm), though it kind of shows and seems to come from a group that already had a thing or two against Palin.

This didn't take long... (http://www.grizzlybay.org/SarahPalinInfoPage.htm), though it kind of shows and seems to come from a group that already had a thing or two against Palin.

Lies. We all know Palin is progressive.

This didn't take long... (http://www.grizzlybay.org/SarahPalinInfoPage.htm), though it kind of shows and seems to come from a group that already had a thing or two against Palin.
Well, I personally wouldn't cite that source because it's obviously very biased. On the other hand, the basic factual claims mostly seem to match up with what I've heard from major media sources (CNN, MSNBC) and from Palin herself (in media sound bites).

I wouldn't rely on how that link interprets what facts there are, but Palin's connections to oil companies and her environmental record are common knowledge, and she herself vouches for her fundamentalist religious social views.

As for the "abuse of power" investigation, like I said, there may be aspects of it that would be revealing as to the kind of politician she is, but it is not clear that her actions were not justified. Probably just the WAY she did them is the possible problem.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109900/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Continues-Lead-49-41.aspx


Looks like Palin really helped McRambo out. Hes down by 8 fuggin points.

Well, I personally wouldn't cite that source because it's obviously very biased. On the other hand,...major media sources (CNN, MSNBC)

Yep, CNN & MSNBC totally unbiased. :rolleyes:

Yep, CNN & MSNBC totally unbiased. :rolleyes:

Bias does not make one uncredable. Lying makes one no longer credable. I havent seen CNN or MSNBC (which is more conservative btw, nice try though) ever out right lie.


Unlike that paragon of balanced media Fox News.

Americans don't know what a bailiwick is. ;)

So educate them.

A bailiwick is the area of jurisdiction of a bailiff. The term was also applied to a territory in which the sheriff's functions were exercised by a privately appointed bailiff under a Crown grant. The word is now more generally used in a metaphorical sense, to indicate a sphere of authority, experience, activity, study, or interest.

bias does not make one uncredable. Lying makes one no longer credable. I havent seen cnn or msnbc (which is more conservative btw, nice try though) ever out right lie.

roflmao.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109900/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Continues-Lead-49-41.aspx


Looks like Palin really helped McRambo out. Hes down by 8 fuggin points.
its too early. obama still has the convention bounce going on. maybe by the end of next week...?

roflmao.

Excellent rebuttle. Or do you agree?

its too early. obama still has the convention bounce going on. maybe by the end of next week...?



Not to early for the point I was trying to make. McCains timing for announcing Palin was meant to weaken his convention bounce and not give him much of a lead in the polls. Since hes still down by 8, clearly his plan, and Palin, failed in this regard.

Not to early for the point I was trying to make. McCains timing for announcing Palin was meant to weaken his convention bounce and not give him much of a lead in the polls. Since hes still down by 8, clearly his plan, and Palin, failed in this regard.

I doubt that the timing was to weaken Obama's Bounce.

and 8 points is not alot.

I doubt that the timing was to weaken Obama's Bounce.

Yeah, I guess he announced it the day after Obama's speech totally on accident.

and 8 points is not alot.

It really is. Especially considering it was a virtual tie before the convention. Going from zero to 8 so quick is pretty solid.

Not to early for the point I was trying to make. McCains timing for announcing Palin was meant to weaken his convention bounce and not give him much of a lead in the polls. Since hes still down by 8, clearly his plan, and Palin, failed in this regard.
i dunno. is that a big bounce? it doesnt seem big to me but then (like muravyets) i am feeling desperate for obama to win this election so i guess im not particularly balanced on the subject.

i am very eager to see how this plays out next week. i wasnt planning on watching the republican convention outside of mccain's acceptance speech but now i think ill be putting more time in on it.

Yeah, I guess he announced it the day after Obama's speech totally on accident.
Can you prove that was the intent or are you speculating.
if he wanted to undermine Obama's speech, then It should've been announced the day before obama spoke. it's not like no one knew which day of the convention Obama would speak on.

It really is. Especially considering it was a virtual tie before the convention. Going from zero to 8 so quick is pretty solid.
so the 8 pt bounce was all Palin's work and not the convention... nice. :tongue:

Yep, CNN & MSNBC totally unbiased. :rolleyes:

So, what, they're the Communist News Network and Marxist Stalinist News Broadcasting Chanel? :rolleyes:

Yes, they're biased. Corporate bias, to be precise. Certainly not in the same way that Grizzly Bear site obviously was. There's a difference between subtle bias and flat out ludicrousy.

and I also know that the choice of VP also makes or breaks elections. I'm not saying Palin is a good choice. but I am marvelling at the arguments against Palin. Being that most are the same against Obama and now being said by Obama supporters.

I agree that Obama can talk the great talk, but for an election to the highest office in the USA, people will say anything to get elected.

The point that Obama supporters are trying to make is that every flaw listed thus far in the election by the GOP is a larger flaw of Palin. They undermined their entire argument. They claimed she is ready to be President, not just Vice President.

Worse, Palin admitted she has no idea what the VP does. That pretty much disqualifies her for the job right there.

Palin: I don't know anything about being Vice President.
McCain: You're hired.

... is it just me or am I seeing ALOT of McCain ads on these forums...

Can you prove that was the intent or are you speculating.
if he wanted to undermine Obama's speech, then It should've been announced the day before obama spoke. it's not like no one knew which day of the convention Obama would speak on.

Actually, they prefaced the announcement about a week earlier as coming the day after the speech. Honestly, is asking too much that you look this stuff up before you speak?


so the 8 pt bounce was all Palin's work and not the convention... nice. :tongue:

They were trying to undermine the bounce. The announcement of the VP was meant to do that and has been talked about for a week by McCain operatives and pundits. It didn't. She's not get credited FOR the bounce. She's getting credited with not preventing it.

... is it just me or am I seeing ALOT of McCain ads on these forums...
we (gravenidle i think) decided that the new adserver is "googly" in that it serves ads based on what is being posted at the time.

The point that Obama supporters are trying to make is that every flaw listed thus far in the election by the GOP is a larger flaw of Palin. They undermined their entire argument. They claimed she is ready to be President, not just Vice President. except the posistion she's running for is Vice President. NOT President.

Worse, Palin admitted she has no idea what the VP does. That pretty much disqualifies her for the job right there. as opposed by people who knew what the Posistion their running for does... say Carter, Bush, Ford, etc...

except the posistion she's running for is Vice President. NOT President.

as opposed by people who knew what the Posistion their running for does... say Carter, Bush, Ford, etc...
the JOB of the vp is to be ready to be president in case the prez drops dead. the vp MUST be fully qualified to be president.

we (gravenidle i think) decided that the new adserver is "googly" in that it serves ads based on what is being posted at the time.

... quick... someone start a P0rn thread... quickly!!! :p

except the posistion she's running for is Vice President. NOT President. Except John McCain, if elected, will be the oldest President ever.

the JOB of the vp is to be ready to be president in case the prez drops dead. the vp MUST be fully qualified to be president.

and she is... what Qualification to being president does she not meet?

Yep, CNN & MSNBC totally unbiased. :rolleyes:
Did I SAY they were totally unbiased? *reads post again* Why, no, I did not.

Next.

... quick... someone start a P0rn thread... quickly!!! :p
if we start one on sex toys will we get an adam and eve ad?

or will it be one about mccains policy on birth control? *pout*

and she is... what Qualification to being president does she not meet?
*smack*

go look at what i was responding to.

she is a natural born citizen and over 35 so she meets the constitutional requirements.

according to john mccain last week, no she would not be qualified.

So educate them.

A bailiwick is the area of jurisdiction of a bailiff. The term was also applied to a territory in which the sheriff's functions were exercised by a privately appointed bailiff under a Crown grant. The word is now more generally used in a metaphorical sense, to indicate a sphere of authority, experience, activity, study, or interest.
Thank you. See, I couldn't have educated them because I'm an American. ;) :p

Except John McCain, if elected, will be the oldest President ever.

and.... what...

man people seem to think hit 75 and you automatically croak!

i dunno. is that a big bounce? it doesnt seem big to me but then (like muravyets) i am feeling desperate for obama to win this election so i guess im not particularly balanced on the subject.

i am very eager to see how this plays out next week. i wasnt planning on watching the republican convention outside of mccain's acceptance speech but now i think ill be putting more time in on it.
I agree that it's too soon to tell what effect Palin is having on McCain's standing. I'm really getting to hate all this instant polling. It seems to turn everyone into Chicken Little, over-reacting to every minor shift.

Very often I think it was a mistake to go to 24/7 news broadcasts.

*smack**ow*
then you should've said not qualified according to the Republicans. :p

according to john mccain last week, no she would not be qualified.
except she is running for Veep. not Pres.

and yes, there is a difference.

we (gravenidle i think) decided that the new adserver is "googly" in that it serves ads based on what is being posted at the time.
Must be true. In the "Secret of the Jew" thread (and I'm still waiting to find out which Jew), the ads were all for Hebrew lessons, and Jewish and Muslim dating services. Truth! :D

and.... what...

man people seem to think hit 75 and you automatically croak!My step-grandfather didn't even make it that far. She's running for next-in-line to president, so she should damn well be ready the day her boss is sworn into office in case he dies of pneumonia. Him being that old makes it more likely than most other presidents before that he'll croak, stressing the need for his VP to be ready to take over. It smacks of hypocrisy to pick someone with less national experience than the person you've been criticizing for having a lack of experience as your running mate in that situation.

*ow*
then you should've said not qualified according to the Republicans. :p


except she is running for Veep. not Pres.

and yes, there is a difference.
no there is not. the bar for qualification of VP is very low and she does not get over it.

it shows very poor judgement on mccains part.

consider for a moment what the republicans would be saying if obama had nominated her (and she had be a nutcase liberal democrat).

My step-grandfather didn't even make it that far. She's running for next-in-line to president, so she should damn well be ready the day her boss is sworn into office in case he dies of pneumonia. Him being that old makes it more likely than most other presidents before that he'll croak, stressing the need for his VP to be ready to take over. It smacks of hypocrisy to pick someone with less national experience than the person you've been criticizing for having a lack of experience as your running mate in that situation.

"in case."

yes they are gambling (and they do that alot with their Veeps... c'mon... Dan Quayle?)

but to attack the VP with the line "In case she becomes President" tacked on?

that's energy wasted.

except the posistion she's running for is Vice President. NOT President.

When the President is 72 and has cancer, you have to evaluate the VP as a potential President, first of all. Secondly, according to McCain, she is ready to be President. The GOP agrees. Since they are the ones also attacking Obama, it's pretty obvious they are being intellectually dishonest. Just regular dishonest, actually.

as opposed by people who knew what the Posistion their running for does... say Carter, Bush, Ford, etc...

Not very good at speaking to the point, huh? I guess you often hire people who openly admit they are clueless as to the requirements of the job you want them for, huh?

"Oh, don't worry. You're only the President of the Senate with no legislative experience. You've only admitted that your concerns are for Alaska and not the needs of the entire US. No worries. You've still got that vagina, right?"

no there is not. the bar for qualification of VP is very low and she does not get over it.

it shows very poor judgement on mccains part.

consider for a moment what the republicans would be saying if obama had nominated her (and she had be a nutcase liberal democrat).

Bolded: now that is IMHO a valid attack. ;)

and what would the reps be saying?

probably something along the lines of "It's 3 am... the phone rings..." :p

"in case."

yes they are gambling (and they do that alot with their Veeps... c'mon... Dan Quayle?)

but to attack the VP with the line "In case she becomes President" tacked on?

that's energy wasted.Not really attacking the VP. The VP, according to McCain's assessment of Obama, is not ready to be President for a while. He's been stressing it and making it one of his main arguments against voting for Obama, and then picks someone less experienced to be his immediate successor should something go wrong.

When the President is 72 and has cancer, you have to evaluate the VP as a potential President, first of all. Secondly, according to McCain, she is ready to be President. The GOP agrees. Since they are the ones also attacking Obama, it's pretty obvious they are being intellectually dishonest. Just regular dishonest, actually. either that or they view someone who was mayor and govenor to be better qualified than someone from the senate.

Not very good at speaking to the point, huh? I guess you often hire people who openly admit they are clueless as to the requirements of the job you want them for, huh? the typical catch 22. "you need experience to get the job, but how can you get the experience if they don't give you the job."

At least she's honest about it and not trying to hide behind her role as Govenor or Mayor to show she is ready.

"in case."

yes they are gambling (and they do that alot with their Veeps... c'mon... Dan Quayle?)

but to attack the VP with the line "In case she becomes President" tacked on?

that's energy wasted.

You keep using those words. I do not think it means what you think it means.

The fact is that people are talking pretty widely about the fact that McCain's VP pick has a bit more weight than most picks due to his age. It's a stressful job, he's got the deadliest form of skin cancer and he's 72. Instead of choosing a candidate based on their ability to meet the qualifications, he's more worried about getting elected.

Now, you're right that it's not unusual, but McCain openly stated he wanted to avoid a "Dan Quayle pick". He didn't. And by doing what is so common, he pretty much proved, he's not the maverick he claims to be. In fact, he's practically doing this by rote.

Are you saying a governor can't be a good President? I'd've thought that would be potentially more useful experience, given it's an executive position.

http://www.wcftr.commarts.wisc.edu/images/feature-pics/spartacus.jpg

"I'm Sarah Palin!"

No but seriously not the best choice for VP ever.

Not really attacking the VP. The VP, according to McCain's assessment of Obama, is not ready to be President for a while. He's been stressing it and making it one of his main arguments against voting for Obama, and then picks someone less experienced to be his immediate successor should something go wrong.

any attack on Palin is an attack on the VP even if you keep flouting the scenario of McCain dying due to cancer/Heart failure/Falling off the steps of Air Force One you're still attackting the VP.

At least she's honest about it and not trying to hide behind her role as Govenor or Mayor to show she is ready.

There is a huge difference between being unexperianced but knowing what your responsibilities will be and having no freaking idea what the job your applying for will entail.

The fact is that people are talking pretty widely about the fact that mccain's vp pick has a bit more weight than most picks due to his age. It's a stressful job, he's got the deadliest form of skin cancer and he's 72. Instead of choosing a candidate based on their ability to meet the qualifications, he's more worried about getting elected.


they're politicians!!!! All they care about is getting elected!!! All of em!!!

either that or they view someone who was mayor and govenor to be better qualified than someone from the senate.

You mean someone like McCain? Did you forget he's a senator?


the typical catch 22. "you need experience to get the job, but how can you get the experience if they don't give you the job."

At least she's honest about it and not trying to hide behind her role as Govenor or Mayor to show she is ready.

Yes, as opposed to a consitutional scholar with more experience in government and who has stood up to the nation scrutiny for the last year.

I'm very interested in how she handles the sudden launch into the spotlight. That is if she survives the corruption scandals while pretend to be the one sweeping out corruption.

they're politicians!!!! All they care about is getting elected!!! All of em!!!

Uh-huh. That's almost an argument. Well, not really, but I try to keep the bar low.

Bolded: now that is IMHO a valid attack. ;)

and what would the reps be saying?

probably something along the lines of "It's 3 am... the phone rings..." :p
and i dont think youll see a LOT of direct attack on ms palin. at least not by biden and obama (outside of the vp debate).

but if last night's daily show is any judge, the media is going to have a field day shredding her on any mistake she might make no matter how insignificant. i was disappointed with stewart's juvenile jokes about her looks.

any attack on Palin is an attack on the VP even if you keep flouting the scenario of McCain dying due to cancer/Heart failure/Falling off the steps of Air Force One you're still attackting the VP.Depends on whether her inexperience is a valid thing to attack. According to McCain, yes, indeed it is.

any attack on Palin is an attack on the VP even if you keep flouting the scenario of McCain dying due to cancer/Heart failure/Falling off the steps of Air Force One you're still attackting the VP.

You don't have to attack her, really. It's good enough that McCain and friends have said she's qualified for President. In doing so, they've demonstrated that their attacks on Obama are dishonest, which is going to make the rest of this election very interesting.

"Obama's not fit to be President. He only has 2 years national experience."
"Didn't you say that your running mate is ready to be President? How many years does she have?"

Are you saying a governor can't be a good President? I'd've thought that would be potentially more useful experience, given it's an executive position.
it can be.

in this case she is a newbie politician, the governor of a state with the same population as charlotte north carolina. a position she has held for less than 2 years. with her previous experience being on one state commission and mayor of a very small town.

its sort of like suggesting that if i have a mom and pop convenience store in rural new mexico i am qualfied to run the safeway grocery story chain.

Depends on whether her inexperience is a valid thing to attack. According to McCain, yes, indeed it is.

oh really? McCain talked about the qualifications of being VP?

oh really? McCain talked about the qualifications of being VP?

Your VP needs to also be qualified to be president, considering that may very well end up being their job.

I dont see whats so hard to understand about this.

any attack on Palin is an attack on the VP even if you keep flouting the scenario of McCain dying due to cancer/Heart failure/Falling off the steps of Air Force One you're still attackting the VP.
Speaking only for myself, so what?

Depends on whether her inexperience is a valid thing to attack. According to McCain, yes, indeed it is.
^^ Truth. If Palin and McCain get raked over the coals for her lack of experience, McCain & Co. have no one to blame but themselves. They are the ones who made experience an issue by claiming that Obama didn't have enough of it. Turnabout is fair play.

You don't have to attack her, really. It's good enough that McCain and friends have said she's qualified for President. In doing so, they've demonstrated that their attacks on Obama are dishonest, which is going to make the rest of this election very interesting.

"Obama's not fit to be President. He only has 2 years national experience."
"Didn't you say that your running mate is ready to be President? How many years does she have?"

that's right. you don't have to attack her or her lack of experience.

oh really? McCain talked about the qualifications of being VP?

Good at avoiding the point.

Quote of McCain's camp - "Governor Palin is a tough executive who has demonstrated during her time in office that she is ready to be president."

He talked about the qualifications to be President and claimed she is ready to be President. You can keep on crying about how it's unfair to view her in that light, but the first press release from McCain on the subject says otherwise.

that's right. you don't have to attack her or her lack of experience.
Why shouldn't we, though?

oh really? McCain talked about the qualifications of being VP?If you're setting decisively different standards for Vice President than for President, you're out of your mind. Both should be able to run the country. One because it's their job, the other in case the other dies or becomes otherwise incapacitated. Cheney's been Commander-in-Chief during Bush's operations, for instance.

its sort of like suggesting that if i have a mom and pop convenience store in rural new mexico i am qualfied to run the safeway grocery story chain. are you saying you can't?

Your VP needs to also be qualified to be president, considering that may very well end up being their job.

I dont see whats so hard to understand about this.
she is qualified. same as Obama.

what people are taking about is her political experience which has nothing to do with being qualified to being president.

that's right. you don't have to attack her or her lack of experience.

People aren't "attacking" her. McCain made an issue about what and how much experience you need to be President, to speak on the issues of the military and various other issues. According to McCain, she is unqualified.

Okay, now follow me... in order to discuss whether or not her inexperience is an issue according to McCain's own arguments *gasp*, we actually have to discuss her experience.

Clear enough?

If you're setting decisively different standards for Vice President than for President, you're out of your mind. Both should be able to run the country. One because it's their job, the other in case the other dies or becomes otherwise incapacitated. Cheney's been Commander-in-Chief during Bush's operations, for instance.

yep. and the point is she is qualified to be president.

NOWHERE does it state that to be president one must have x years political experience of senate level or what not.

now whether or not she'll make a Good VP or President is unknown tho people can speculate.

are you saying you can't?


she is qualified. same as Obama.

what people are taking about is her political experience which has nothing to do with being qualified to being president.

Agreed. McCain has just demonstrated that Obama is qualified to be President. (I'll ignore that you've been flopping all over the floor like Dennis Rodman.)

Meanwhile, people are talking about her political experience, because this is, you know, politics.

Why shouldn't we, though?

wasted effort. she admitted her lack of experience and knowledge. why push it.

instead use her to show McCain's decision making ability.

yep. and the point is she is qualified to be president.

NOWHERE does it state that to be president one must have x years political experience of senate level or what not.

now whether or not she'll make a Good VP or President is unknown tho people can speculate.

I dont think you are getting the point. No one (I think?) here thinks her lack of experiance is a problem. At least, thats not what we are discussing here.


What we are saying is that McCain has made experiance a real issue in this election. He then picked someone that by his own criteria is really really inexperianced. Thats our point. McCain made a dumb pick because now he cant ever, ever use the experiance attack.


Read that slowly. If you still think that we are talking about Palin's experiance and are attacking it, read it again until you get it.

yep. and the point is she is qualified to be president.

NOWHERE does it state that to be president one must have x years political experience of senate level or what not.

now whether or not she'll make a Good VP or President is unknown tho people can speculate.

Except, her running mate claimed that such things are actually necessary, thus he is qualified and Obama is not. It's really not that complicated. This has been explained to your repeatedly, at this point your cognitive disonnance is just embarrassing.

People aren't "attacking" her. McCain made an issue about what and how much experience you need to be President, to speak on the issues of the military and various other issues. According to McCain, she is unqualified.

Okay, now follow me... in order to discuss whether or not her inexperience is an issue according to McCain's own arguments *gasp*, we actually have to discuss her experience.

Clear enough?
except to discuss her experience you need to clarify one major difference. She is running for Vice President. the only way she will be president (should they win 2008) is if McCain cannot perform his duties as president. thus any discussion of her inexperience will be blocked by the fact that she is only VP and any attacks on her inexperience opens more attacks on Obama who is not running for VP but President.

Agreed. McCain has just demonstrated that Obama is qualified to be President. (I'll ignore that you've been flopping all over the floor like Dennis Rodman.) never said otherwise.

Meanwhile, people are talking about her political experience, because this is, you know, politics. yep. but this is a Presidental Election. not Vice Presidental Election.

tho to have a seperate election for Vice President...

except to discuss her experience you need to clarify one major difference. She is running for Vice President. the only way she will be president (should they win 2008) is if McCain cannot perform his duties as president. thus any discussion of her inexperience will be blocked by the fact that she is only VP and any attacks on her inexperience opens more attacks on Obama who is not running for VP but President.

Ok, again, there isnt really a criteria difference between POTUS and VPOTUS.


Seriously, I dont see whats so hard to understand about that.

yep. and the point is she is qualified to be president.

NOWHERE does it state that to be president one must have x years political experience of senate level or what not.McCain's campaign's been making a point to the contrary.

I dont think you are getting the point. No one (I think?) here thinks her lack of experiance is a problem. At least, thats not what we are discussing here.

What we are saying is that McCain has made experiance a real issue in this election. He then picked someone that by his own criteria is really really inexperianced. Thats our point. McCain made a dumb pick because now he cant ever, ever use the experiance attack.

Read that slowly. If you still think that we are talking about Palin's experiance and are attacking it, read it again until you get it. not Just McCain. Hillary and others also made the point about Obama's experiences. (did everyone suddenly forget the Democratic primaries?)

now no where did I say Palin was a smart or dumb pick. no where did I say McCain was smart or stupid in picking Palin. All I am saying is that Palin isn't an "Anti-Inexperience Sheild" that some hinted that she was (Now McCain can't attack obama's lack of experience because of Palin.) You think McCain can't still attack Obama's experience level? he can because she is running for VP, not President. any attacks on McCain's age (such as him dying in office) or health status (cancer) and you hit alot of voters that Obama can't afford to loose. Just like attacks on Obama's age (not experience, age) would reflect badly on the younger generation and will cost McCain voters he needs.

Remember. in campaigning, you appeal to public perceptions, not their intellect. their hearts, not their minds.

otherwise the Republicans would be in a hole sooo deep, sunlight would need to be pumped down to them.
Except, her running mate claimed that such things are actually necessary, thus he is qualified and Obama is not. It's really not that complicated. This has been explained to your repeatedly, at this point your cognitive disonnance is just embarrassing.
McCain claimed that... didn't Hillary claim that while running? didn't others like Edwards and such also claim that?

now as I stated, it could be that McCain thinks that her being Mayor and Govenor makes her better qualified. but that's for him to clarify when he's called on those comments. Just like Hillary felt her tenure as first lady qualified her to be president.

Ok, again, there isnt really a criteria difference between POTUS and VPOTUS.


Seriously, I dont see whats so hard to understand about that.
Public Perception.

It's not what you think they're saying but what they actually said.

McCain's campaign's been making a point to the contrary.
not just McCain's Campaign.

it can be.

in this case she is a newbie politician, the governor of a state with the same population as charlotte north carolina. a position she has held for less than 2 years. with her previous experience being on one state commission and mayor of a very small town.

its sort of like suggesting that if i have a mom and pop convenience store in rural new mexico i am qualfied to run the safeway grocery story chain.
True, but that's not what I meant.

What he was saying implied that governors do not make good Presidents, which is a statement I find fault with.

not just McCain's Campaign.

But in this discussion and relative to Palin, McCain's campaign's comments are all that matter.

not Just McCain. Hillary and others also made the point about Obama's experiences. (did everyone suddenly forget the Democratic primaries?)

now no where did I say Palin was a smart or dumb pick. no where did I say McCain was smart or stupid in picking Palin. All I am saying is that Palin isn't an "Anti-Inexperience Sheild" that some hinted that she was (Now McCain can't attack obama's lack of experience because of Palin.) You think McCain can't still attack Obama's experience level? he can because she is running for VP, not President. any attacks on McCain's age (such as him dying in office) or health status (cancer) and you hit alot of voters that Obama can't afford to loose. Just like attacks on Obama's age (not experience, age) would reflect badly on the younger generation and will cost McCain voters he needs.

Remember. in campaigning, you appeal to public perceptions, not their intellect. their hearts, not their minds.

otherwise the Republicans would be in a hole sooo deep, sunlight would need to be pumped down to them.

McCain claimed that... didn't Hillary claim that while running? didn't others like Edwards and such also claim that?

now as I stated, it could be that McCain thinks that her being Mayor and Govenor makes her better qualified. but that's for him to clarify when he's called on those comments. Just like Hillary felt her tenure as first lady qualified her to be president.
well mccain CAN attack obama on experience, it wont work as well (not that its been working well) when he doesnt find it important in his vp candidate.

just as mccain CAN keep attacking obama on being an elitist even though the whole "cant remember how many homes he has" thing is devastating to that argument.

True, but that's not what I meant.

What he was saying implied that governors do not make good Presidents, which is a statement I find fault with.
i would agree with you there. not that recent governors-turned-president have been on my favorites list but in theory its very good experience.

well mccain CAN attack obama on experience, it wont work as well (not that its been working well) when he doesnt find it important in his vp candidate.

I don't think that's the case. The VP is not the President, and in the wake of the Cheney debacle I don't think people want a VP that can be construed as the "brains" of the Administration (even though Bush's entire "dumb" act was really a charade). They want the President to be the leader, and that's why I feel moreso than in previous elections the VP choice is particularly irrelevant. Even so, I also feel that the overall meaning of experience is less important compared to previous elections, making the tactic less effective. People want change, plain and simple.

That being said, this pick is a blitzkrieg move of sorts; it created disorder and chaos in the Obama camp, but unless McCain can use that to his advantage and completely disrupt them it will collapse in on him quite spectacularly.

But in this discussion and relative to Palin, McCain's campaign's comments are all that matter.
If you think so. but inside my 'ranting and flopping about like Dennis Rodman... tho that leaves a painful image... there is a warning about elections and public perceptions

I don't think that's the case. The VP is not the President, and in the wake of the Cheney debacle I don't think people want a VP that can be construed as the "brains" of the Administration (even though Bush's entire "dumb" act was really a charade). They want the President to be the leader, and that's why I feel moreso than in previous elections the VP choice is particularly irrelevant. Even so, I also feel that the overall meaning of experience is less important compared to previous elections, making the tactic less effective. People want change, plain and simple.

That being said, this pick is a blitzkrieg move of sorts; it created disorder and chaos in the Obama camp, but unless McCain can use that to his advantage and completely disrupt them it will collapse in on him quite spectacularly.
yeah. its a test for obama as much as it is mccain. (kinda) if obama cant deal with THIS he doesnt deserve to win.

Public Perception.

It's not what you think they're saying but what they actually said.
Public Perception is what the campaigns can make it.

If by hammering away at Palin's resume, the public perception can be created that McCain is a hypocrite who makes self-serving decisions that are not in the best interest of the nation, then the effort is most certainly NOT wasted, as you keep insisting.

We are not attacking Palin. We are attacking McCain by beating him up with Palin. We are not using her resume against him. We are using his own words against him. By attacking Obama on inexperience and then opting to claim that an inexperienced person on his own team is "ready to be president," McCain created a weakness in himself that his opponents would be fools not to attack.

not just McCain's Campaign.
Both teams play the same game by the same or similar rules. No shit, really?! :eek2:

That being said, this pick is a blitzkrieg move of sorts; it created disorder and chaos in the Obama camp, but unless McCain can use that to his advantage and completely disrupt them it will collapse in on him quite spectacularly.
Did it? I haven't yet seen any particular sign of disorder or chaos from the Obama side.

Or did it just create disorder and chaos in the media, who are falling all over themselves to be the first to make either a star or a pariah out of Palin?

Both teams play the same game by the same or similar rules. No shit, really?! :eek2:
yep. how quickly some forget tho. :p

yep. how quickly some forget tho. :p
What makes you think anybody forgot?

Did it? I haven't yet seen any particular sign of disorder or chaos from the Obama side.

Or did it just create disorder and chaos in the media, who are falling all over themselves to be the first to make either a star or a pariah out of Palin?

The Obama campaign had to really rearrange its tactics to deal with this. Their websites and campaign officials were focusing on a likely choice of Romeny or Pawlenty, not Palin.

However, that being said it was definitely most effective in the media and a very calculated move to defuse Obama's post-convention lead as quickly and decisively as possible. It will take time to really see it in the polls, but I think they were able to keep the post-convention bounce a bounce rather than the beginning of the end for their campaign.

What makes you think anybody forgot?many things.

especially the us vs them stance that all sides take on these forums.

yeah. its a test for obama as much as it is mccain. (kinda) if obama cant deal with THIS he doesnt deserve to win.

Frankly, I think Obama will be able to deal with it. The McCain campaign has yet to show the kind of energy that could turn a move like this in to a strategic windfall, and that will cost them once they're forced to go back on the defensive. It's highly likely that Obama will win this election, even with this rather masterful strategic move boosting McCain's profile.

Reiterating what I've said before, I think the fundamental truth is that people want another direction; they compare now to the 1990's, when even the lowest income bracket saw its incomes rise to their highest real levels in history (and which had some of the biggest percentage gains) and wonder what went wrong. Regardless of who's at fault, the average American is worse off than they were in 2000 and it's being felt in this election. Just like in 1992 or 1980, the economy is the driving issue rather than national security or social issues and I think Obama is simply offering more.

The Obama campaign had to really rearrange its tactics to deal with this. Their websites and campaign officials were focusing on a likely choice of Romeny or Pawlenty, not Palin.

However, that being said it was definitely most effective in the media and a very calculated move to defuse Obama's post-convention lead as quickly and decisively as possible. It will take time to really see it in the polls, but I think they were able to keep the post-convention bounce a bounce rather than the beginning of the end for their campaign.

It's a temporary delay that will cost them in the end when Palin and McCain are both soundly drubbed in the debates.

I will be giggling when I watch those, lemme tell ya.

Not that I actually endorse this as an argument against either Palin or McCain, but it still made me chuckle...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3153/2811100090_a904c60dbb.jpg



...sorry...

Not that I actually endorse this as an argument against either Palin or McCain, but it still made me chuckle...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3153/2811100090_a904c60dbb.jpg



...sorry...

As you yourself would say,

Quality!

It's a temporary delay that will cost them in the end when Palin and McCain are both soundly drubbed in the debates.

I will be giggling when I watch those, lemme tell ya.

I think McCain will be more than capable of holding his own with Obama, but it's going to be the Biden-Palin debate where things will fall apart. That being said, this will be a close election regardless of what happens in the months ahead.

I think McCain will be more than capable of holding his own with Obama

Even McCains own campaign seems to believe otherwise.

Even McCains own campaign seems to believe otherwise.

Obama's pretty weak on off-the-cuff things, though. It will most likely be a rhetorical victory rather than one based on issues, sort of like how Kennedy beat Nixon in the 1960 debates despite Nixon dominating the content side of things. Ultimately, this will boil down to whoever appears more presidential rather than who owns the issues side of things, and I believe McCain is simply better at doing that for the majority of undecided voters.

Obama's pretty weak on off-the-cuff things, though. It will most likely be a rhetorical victory rather than one based on issues, sort of like how Kennedy beat Nixon in the 1960 debates despite Nixon dominating the content side of things. Ultimately, this will boil down to whoever appears more presidential rather than who owns the issues side of things.

I sadly agree with this.

many things.

especially the us vs them stance that all sides take on these forums.
You are talking about supporters of opposing teams. Do you expect them NOT to take an us vs them stance?

I don't pretend that the Obama team are all kittens and bunnies having happy sparkly thoughts about how nice it would be if we all could just get along. I am fully aware that they are pols just like their opponents. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to go after McCain for every mistake or deliberate bad act he does, because I want Obama to win, not McCain.

Just because supporters talk up their own side and talk down the opposing side does not mean that they've forgotten what game they are playing.

The Obama campaign had to really rearrange its tactics to deal with this. Their websites and campaign officials were focusing on a likely choice of Romeny or Pawlenty, not Palin.

However, that being said it was definitely most effective in the media and a very calculated move to defuse Obama's post-convention lead as quickly and decisively as possible. It will take time to really see it in the polls, but I think they were able to keep the post-convention bounce a bounce rather than the beginning of the end for their campaign.
Okay, granted, but I hardly think a scramble to respond to an unexpected gambit amounts to "disorder and chaos," especially after so short a time.

many things.

especially the us vs them stance that all sides take on these forums.

I notice that each time one of your points is debunked, you just shift to making this about some other made up problem.

It's not "us" vs "them". It's "I think this guy is the best candidate and here's why."

Incidentally... and I know this is shocking, so you better sit down... showing your guy is the best candidate often requires comparison or debunking of the other candidates arguments. I know. I know. It's so crazy it almost makes sense.

And, strangely, when the primaries are over, you stop talking about why you should defeat the people you've already defeated and start talking about the people you're currently running against. Incidentally, in the Superbowl, not one single player from the Chargers got sacked. They must be good, huh?

Okay, granted, but I hardly think a scramble to respond to an unexpected gambit amounts to "disorder and chaos," especially after so short a time.

It knocked the DNC and Obama straight off the news channels for a good day, so it created the kind of crucial gap that will, from their standpoint, ideally result in a much faster diffusion of the post-convention bounce and give the McCain campaign time to prepare for the undoubtedly intense battle in the weeks to come.

It knocked the DNC and Obama straight off the news channels for a good day, so it created the kind of crucial gap that will, from their standpoint, ideally result in a much faster diffusion of the post-convention bounce and give the McCain campaign time to prepare for the undoubtedly intense battle in the weeks to come.
I'm not disputing that. In fact, that really pissed me off. But how does that equate to "disorder and chaos" in the Obama team? You make it sound like they were all in a confused tizzy, unable to find their pens or phones, and nobody even remembering to make coffee in the office, while all the toilets were exploding and everybody was shouting randomly.

To me, "disorder and chaos" in a campaign is shown by things like wholesale firing and replacement of campaign personnel. Or mad scatter-shot mixes of negative ads being shown in unusual venues. I have not seen such things happen yet. Have you?

Really, was there any point to McCain choosing her? She's quite inexperienced, and if he were going for the females' votes, I'm sure there were a few much more suitable candidates

Claire McCaskel would have been my choice if I were dead set on going for a woman. I think she is a better choice than Palin.

1)
<snip>

There was that rich ebay woman who they say is very capable, but apparently she's very smart too, because it seems like she turned down the offer.

You couldn't Google that?

Living overseas and being a diplomat are two different things.

I Grew up in a multicultural neighborhood, that doesn't make me a diplomat nor does that do jack for any foriegn policy experience I might want to claim.

Indeed. However, having some experience overseas trumps no experience at all in dealing with foreigners, does it not? At least my experience has taught me about dealing with non-US peoples. Her's has not.

and if you see arguments about Obama being inexperienced as a false flag the same can be said for Palin who lead her state for a couple of years.

Basically, the GOP is using Palin to make people realize how much experience would be a factor. Palin is running for VP so any damage is still minimized. they (the GOP) can still attack Obama on his lack of Experience while any attack on Palin's lack will be seen as petty since she is NOT running for Pres. a trap many people here are already falling into.

But, as I've said before, as have otheres, considering McCain's age and health issues, she is functionally running for president.

and.... what...

man people seem to think hit 75 and you automatically croak!

It is a lot more likely...

You don't have to attack her, really. It's good enough that McCain and friends have said she's qualified for President. In doing so, they've demonstrated that their attacks on Obama are dishonest, which is going to make the rest of this election very interesting.

"Obama's not fit to be President. He only has 2 years national experience."
"Didn't you say that your running mate is ready to be President? How many years does she have?"


Indeed so. The age/experience issues been tossed out in the trash.

yep. and the point is she is qualified to be president.

NOWHERE does it state that to be president one must have x years political experience of senate level or what not.

now whether or not she'll make a Good VP or President is unknown tho people can speculate.

When I get home, and have more time, I'll have to put up a poll...

Not that I actually endorse this as an argument against either Palin or McCain, but it still made me chuckle...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3153/2811100090_a904c60dbb.jpg



...sorry...

Indeed so.

Then the Democrats announce their running mate

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/40/Batmanlee.png

They get corporate lobbyists.

http://www.historyguy.com/comicshistory/iron_man_beats_cap.jpg

The Republican party sees you, and raises. I mean come on? He is just as rich, and he makes weaposn... the perfect republican running mate!

She's got more experience than Obamanation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_obama

Are you sure of that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_obama

Are you sure of that?

Kat, do bear in mind that we're talking about a guy that actually made a thread attacking Democrats as unpatriotic for trashing disposable plastic flags.

http://www.historyguy.com/comicshistory/iron_man_beats_cap.jpg

The Republican party sees you, and raises. I mean come on? He is just as rich, and he makes weaposn... the perfect republican running mate!

Well, Republicans got Palin, so Democrats will have to get someone else...

http://images.elfwood.com/fanq/a/m/amclark/rogue_flight_co.jpg

Sexy, strong on defense, gets the southern votes, chaste...

Well, Republicans got Palin, so Democrats will have to get someone else...

http://images.elfwood.com/fanq/a/m/amclark/rogue_flight_co.jpg

Sexy, strong on defense, gets the southern votes, chaste...

http://www.britfilms.tv/images/news/captain%20america.jpg

Tall, strong, handsome, and a war vet. Not to mention the greatest patriot of them all!

I'm not sure arguing who's the better candidate is too debatable, personally I think the only intelligent person to vote for McCain/Palin has a vested financial interest over the betterment of society or is inherently Republican.

Otherwise, for many reasons not bounded by policy alone, Obama/Biden is simply the intelligent choice

I honestly cannot understand why the idea that every American should be covered by healthcare is such anathema to some. A government serves its people and that, fundamentally, should include health and education.

That Barack Obama, who is considered left, does not promote this, cannot promote this, is just a terrible statement on America. That there's a chance that John McCain might win is even worse, that doesn't even touch on issues such as abortion and a secular government.

Beyond that, and perhaps the world doesn't matter to some Americans, but over and above policy there's huge gains to be made by voting in Barack Obama. The Middle East does not think America will let him win, many others think that America remains a touch too racist to vote him in. How happy we'd all be to be proven wrong, how much good light will shine on people's perceptions of what remains the world's leading economic and military power, what a message that sends.

Finally, read this and tell me that's the party you want in power, the same sort of selfish win-at-all-costs attitude that speaks to the trickle-down economics - let the rich get rich - promoted by those born to power, epitomized by the failed son of a former president running the country for 8 years.

Link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/31/uselections2008.barackobama)

From which...

The father of the modern Republican attack machine was Lee Atwater, a South Carolina native with a passion for blues guitar and brutal politics who, before he died of brain cancer in 1991, wrote letters of apology to many of those his aggressive campaigning had destroyed.

Atwater also mentored the young Karl Rove. Rove, in his turn, mentored Schmidt. 'There is a reason why Steve Schmidt, who was mentored by Rove who was mentored by Atwater, is running John McCain's campaign,' said Joe Conason, author of the book Big Lies. That reason is simple - these tactics work. When Republicans are shunning Bush's record, attacking Obama personally is the strongest course of action.

It has created the most effective attack machine in the Western world, with the sole purpose of destroying opponents and winning elections. For opponents it is a source of shock, misery and more than a little envy. Its tentacles stretch from the McCain campaign into the murky corners of talk radio, the internet and shadowy groups willing to use any outlandish smear.

Now that machine is focused with laser-like intensity on Obama. The clamour is loud and shrill: Obama is vain, inexperienced, liberal and dangerous. It is backed by a clandestine chorus whispering that he has a secretive Islamic past and it uses racially loaded language. It is also only going to get louder. This week, as McCain and the Republicans gather for their party convention in the Minnesota city of St Paul, the noise will become deafening. It has one purpose - to keep the White House in Republican hands at all costs and against the odds.

The problem for the Democrats is that they've always focused on why their candidate is the better candidate. They think they're talking to the head when in fact elections are decided in the heart. This has been well-documented. I see it in threads here.

I'm not saying the Democrats should use the same dirty tactics but they should absolutely be aware of them, realise they're a threat and not be so complacent just because they have the better candidate.

To always defend Barack Obama will lead to a mentality where people think he needs defending, because there's something there.

Far better to concentrate on why John McCain is an insane choice.

You couldn't be bothered to Google that?
Fixed, and no, I couldn't.

http://www.historyguy.com/comicshistory/iron_man_beats_cap.jpg

The Republican party sees you, and raises. I mean come on? He is just as rich, and he makes weaposn... the perfect republican running mate!
and he's a recovering Alcoholic. very inspirational.
http://www.britfilms.tv/images/news/captain%20america.jpg

Tall, strong, handsome, and a war vet. Not to mention the greatest patriot of them all!
ugh... just lost my vote.

A blogger dug up Sarah Palin's responses to a questionaire (http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-gubernatorial-candidate.html) given while she was running for governer in 2006. Do you really want somebody this ignorant running for VP?

Q11. Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

My bold. Even a non-American like myself knows that 'under God' was added in the 1950s.

A blogger dug up Sarah Palin's responses to a questionaire (http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-gubernatorial-candidate.html) given while she was running for governer in 2006. Do you really want somebody this ignorant running for VP?



My bold. Even a non-American like myself knows that 'under God' was added in the 1950s.

NOW do I get to call her a bimbo?

I love her answer to the final question, especially the part where she makes it sound as if she thinks that gun ownership is a key ingredient to a happy family.:rolleyes:

Gov. Palin: You, madam, are an idiot.

NOW do I get to call her a bimbo?

Personally I'd rather you didn't: her sex is irrelevant to her ignorance.

Personally I'd rather you didn't: her sex is irrelevant to her ignorance.

A moron, then? :p

A moron, then? :p

Moron is fine by me.

Moron is fine by me.

Minding, I don't think she's a bimbo BECAUSE she's a woman. She's a woman who HAPPENS TO BE a bimbo.

http://www.britfilms.tv/images/news/captain%20america.jpg

Tall, strong, handsome, and a war vet. Not to mention the greatest patriot of them all!

Does 'Shot dead on the steps of a court-house' not disqualify him....? I mean, fair enough he couldn't do much worse than some we could all think of, but still...

I love her answer to the final question, especially the part where she makes it sound as if she thinks that gun ownership is a key ingredient to a happy family.:rolleyes:


Meh you would be amazed what a nice quiet orderly house youd probably have if you knew Dad was packing heat.

Palin's daughter is pregnant. Bwahahaha. I guess having guns around shouldn't be the top of the list for keeping your family together.

Meh you would be amazed what a nice quiet orderly house youd probably have if you knew Dad was packing heat.

Not my house. My old man was an alchoholic.

Palin's daughter is pregnant. Bwahahaha. I guess having guns around shouldn't be the top of the list for keeping your family together.

How else could they have a shotgun wedding for her?