NationStates Jolt Archive

Pictures of clean up from the DNC convention.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3019/2806498530_92c4f14cf2_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3292/2805648705_5dab7b87af.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3109/2806498838_4e1a618963.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3120/2806498934_f89cc36096.jpg?v=0

I guess now that the flags are not needed as props, they are just garbage?

I, for one, am shocked. Digiorno pizzas? Really? I'm so voting McCain.

Parden my ignorance, but what's the DNC?

Man, even I can find a better excuse to not vote for Obama than "OMGZ, THEY DIDN'T KEEP THE FLAGS!" :rolleyes:

Parden my ignorance, but what's the DNC?

Democratic National Convention, and no your ignorance is not Pardoned, Go see the pain monster!

The democratic national commitee. Note the numerous recyclable materials in the trash.

I guess now that the flags are not needed as props, they are just garbage?

The Republicans will hold their convention. It will end about one week from now.

When it ends, I'm going to find photographs of their garbage, say the same thing you just said, and you'll agree with me and applaud me for showing their lack of patriotism.

Or you'll admit you're on a fishing expedition and cut it off.

Right. Now.

What's your choice?

Man, even I can find a better excuse to not vote for Obama than "OMGZ, THEY DIDN'T KEEP THE FLAGS!" :rolleyes:
It's not that they didn't keep them, it is that they disrespected the flags, which are a representation of the nation, so you can infer from that, that is how they think of the nation.

The democratic national commitee. Note the numerous recyclable materials in the trash.

People being Hypocrits, the Devil you say!

Yea, today is a smart-ass day for me. :)

The democratic national commitee. Note the numerous recyclable materials in the trash.

That's why I always vote Republican, because of the party's longstanding commitment to recycling.

It's not that they didn't keep them, it is that they disrespected the flags, which are a representation of the nation, so you can infer from that, that is how they think of the nation.

Meh. Federal policies in the past 8 years have done more to trample on the values those flags represent, and in ways more lasting and damaging to this countries security, than a bunch of discarded pieces of cloth ever will.

It's not that they didn't keep them, it is that they disrespected the flags, which are a representation of the nation, so you can infer from that, that is how they think of the nation.

Most of these 1 cent plastic flags end up in the trash anyways. So, what does it really matter?

It's not that they didn't keep them, it is that they disrespected the flags, which are a representation of the nation, so you can infer from that, that is how they think of the nation.

That's it. A week from now I'll be posting photographs of discarded flags (and there WILL be) from the RNC, and YOU WILL DAMN WELL APPLAUD ME!

Because you're not a hypocritical moron on a fishing expedition, now are you?

I think it more likely that not all the convention goers took their flags with them when the left the auditorium and it was the maintenance staff that trashed them, not the DNC reps themselves (I can't imagine they actually cleaned up their own mess after the convention just like the Republicans won't but will rely on the maintenance staff at the convention center).

Leaving a flag behind is not the same as trashing it, so, why don't you ostracize the maintenance staff instead.

I think it more likely that not all the convention goers took their flags with them when the left the auditorium and it was the maintenance staff that trashed them, not the DNC reps themselves (I can't imagine they actually cleaned up their own mess after the convention just like the Republicans won't but will rely on the maintenance staff at the convention center).

Leaving a flag behind is not the same as trashing it, so, why don't you ostracize the maintenance staff instead.

Oh, don't worry about a thing. A week from now there'll be a thread, started by yours truly, with the same conclusions about the Republicans.

Seriously you guys.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/Dragonkirby/Non-Kirby/Photos/ADigiorno.png
You guys, seriously.

I guess now that the flags are not needed as props, they are just garbage?

yeah, same as every flag ever. what do you want, special plastic flag melting ceremonies?

yeah, same as every flag ever. what do you want, special plastic flag melting ceremonies?

He wants me to make a thread like this one about the RNC a week from now so he can applaud it. I'll oblige him.

The Republicans will hold their convention. It will end about one week from now.

When it ends, I'm going to find photographs of their garbage, say the same thing you just said, and you'll agree with me and applaud me for showing their lack of patriotism.

Or you'll admit you're on a fishing expedition and cut it off.

Right. Now.

What's your choice?

... really? is that what he was going on about? the flags?

I was looking at all the recyclables, the plastic bottles, the cardboard boxes and paper that were not being recycled.

Seriously you guys.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y138/Dragonkirby/Non-Kirby/Photos/ADigiorno.png
You guys, seriously.

I seriously thought they had delivery! :eek:

Yeah, probably not a carbon neutral convention.

I know that there is a 'respectful' method of disposing of material flags but I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to cheap plastic flags.

... really? is that what he was going on about? the flags?

I was looking at all the recyclables, the plastic bottles, the cardboard boxes and paper that were not being recycled.Maybe they WERE recycled: how do we know?

Pictures of clean up from the DNC convention.

I guess now that the flags are not needed as props, they are just garbage?
Those paper poled garbage party toys sure as heck belong to be thrown away.

When you build them like party noisemakers dont expect them to last forever, might as well throw them away

eww who goes around poking in convention trash?

if you want I can take some pictures of my trash and we can all pleasure ourselves over the amount of soda I go through :)

eww who goes around poking in convention trash?

if you want I can take some pictures of my trash and we can all pleasure ourselves over the amount of soda I go through :)

Masturbate to soda cans? o_O

And I thought I was a perv.

>.>

<.<

*Hides the whip*

I was looking at all the recyclables, the plastic bottles, the cardboard boxes and paper that were not being recycled.

actually, it looks like almost all of that might be recyclable - in fact, it very well might be getting recycled.

It would have been cool to see less waste, but we don't know if that stuff was being recycled or not, do we?

Also, it's the DNC, they should have taken the photos of the aborted babies lying all over the place.

It would have been cool to see less waste, but we don't know if that stuff was being recycled or not, do we?

Also, it's the DNC, they should have taken the photos of the aborted babies lying all over the place.

Again, the claim he made was based on the fact that there were flags and they were thrown out.

Maybe they WERE recycled: how do we know?

actually, it looks like almost all of that might be recyclable - in fact, it very well might be getting recycled.

they're not seperated.

you got plastic, paper / cardboard, wood and cloths (yes, the flags are cloth) all in one bag.

Again, the claim he made was based on the fact that there were flags and they were thrown out.

Oh I know, but nothing he says matters so I just ignore him. I was responding to the more credible stuff. They were purposefully trying to have the greenest DNC ever, so I would imagine that they would think about the trash.

Oh I know, but nothing he says matters so I just ignore him. I was responding to the more credible stuff. They were purposefully trying to have the greenest DNC ever, so I would imagine that they would think about the trash.

It's conceivable that the pictures were taken before separation and sending the things to recycling. We don't know.

they're not seperated.

you got plastic, paper / cardboard and cloths (yes, the flags are cloth) all in one bag.

They might have separated it later. Really, we don't know the fate of that trash.

I seriously thought they had delivery! :eek:

Yeesh, can you imagine getting that call? "Hi, I need to place an order for delivery?...I'd like 5000 large pizzas. Make it 2000 pepperoni, 2000 cheese, 1000 veggie lovers'....oh, and 1 cheeseless....Yeah, ASAP, these guys are hungry. What? No, just pull up outside the convention center, I'll see you. I'll be the one in the silly hat."

It's conceivable that the pictures were taken before separation and sending the things to recycling. We don't know.

Precisely... which is why I said "we don't know if that stuff was being recycled or not, do we?"

I personally think, though, that they should have tried to keep very ungreen practices like crappy, useless props at a minimum. Then again... you can't control all of the vendors and it's probably bad publicity to restrict vendors from making money... Denver is/waas counting on people spending a lot of cash.

Yeesh, can you imagine getting that call? "Hi, I need to place an order for delivery?...I'd like 5000 large pizzas. Make it 2000 pepperoni, 2000 cheese, 1000 veggie lovers'....oh, and 1 cheeseless....Yeah, ASAP, these guys are hungry. What? No, just pull up outside the convention center, I'll see you. I'll be the one in the silly hat."

reminds me of "The American President" where he's trying to buy flowers for a woman he had a date with.

"Yeah, I need a dozen roses. sure, on my credit card"
*looks around for his wallet then puts the phone on hold*
"Carol! where are my Credit Cards?"
"they're in the vault Mr President"
*takes the phone off of hold*
"ahh.. yes, a problem with that... can I get a bill instead? where to send the bill? well, you probably don't reconize me.. but I'm the President... hello?, HELLO?"

They might have separated it later. Really, we don't know the fate of that trash.

Precisely... which is why I said "we don't know if that stuff was being recycled or not, do we?"

I personally think, though, that they should have tried to keep very ungreen practices like crappy, useless props at a minimum. Then again... you can't control all of the vendors and it's probably bad publicity to restrict vendors from making money... Denver is/waas counting on people spending a lot of cash.

rather extra work isn't it? better to have one person picking up all the plastics, while another picks up the paper/cardboard, while another picks up the wood...

considering the mass produced (Aka... paper thin) Garbage bags they're using, I can't see anyone going though those bags and seperating it.

still it is a possiblity. but highly unlikely since Garbage pickup requires seperation before they pick up and not after.

Junii - if it's like this method: http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/osw/conserve/onthego/documents/coors08.pdf - then it's no different

Also here is a story about the DNC recycling:
http://www.wnbc.com/politics/17311134/detail.html
KMGH located dozens of bags full of what looked like trash outside the Pepsi Center being sorted for recyclables by hand by Colorado State University volunteers.

also it's funny how Coca-Cola is providing all of the recycling at the Pepsi center: http://www.greendaily.com/2008/08/25/democratic-national-convention-recycled-by-coca-cola/

one last hing: Alpine Offers DNC Recycling Incentive (http://www.packaging-online.com/paperboardpackaging/OBM+Breaking+News/Alpine-Offers-DNC-Recycling-Incentive/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/533234?ref=25)

Alpine Waste & Recycling has something called "Altogether Recycling"

The new Altogether Recycling plant allows customers to combine their recyclables “altogether,” with no need for separation into categories.

Still SB, it's a much better topic of discussion than say... finding those little flags all over the place. :p


Besides...

There are receptacles throughout the Pepsi and Convention Center venues, but ultimately, it is the convention-goers' responsibility to put the appropriate items in each container.
Are those plastic bags the recepticals? I think not.

so why didn't they use those recepticals to collect and seperate what was picked up off of the floor?

An army of volunteers has fanned out across the venues to direct people on where to dispose of their waste. missed some.

then again, thoes bags may have been the TOTAL which would then be damned impressive.

and notice that they were using seperate trucks to transport the recyclables. thus again someone has to go through those flimsy bags and seperate the trash. NOT saying they didn't do that, just saying more work.

they're not seperated.

you got plastic, paper / cardboard, wood and cloths (yes, the flags are cloth) all in one bag.

i don't know about denver, but that's how they do it in the chicago burbs. only we got rid of the bags and just use bins.

rather extra work isn't it? better to have one person picking up all the plastics, while another picks up the paper/cardboard, while another picks up the wood...

Not if the top priority is to get all the crap out of the building as quickly as possible, and THEN deal with it.

It's not that they didn't keep them, it is that they disrespected the flags, which are a representation of the nation, so you can infer from that, that is how they think of the nation.

One could infer that. One could also infer that, because my left earlobe itches, I clearly have a severe rash that will prove fatal within the hour.


It's a fucking piece of cloth. If anything, it's worse that we actually feel the need to use that many resources on something so pointless and trivial rather than producing more clothing for those who can't afford it, or spending that money on, you know, actual issues rather than political dick-waving.


Just saying.

Pictures of clean up from the DNC convention.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3019/2806498530_92c4f14cf2_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3292/2805648705_5dab7b87af.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3109/2806498838_4e1a618963.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3120/2806498934_f89cc36096.jpg?v=0

I guess now that the flags are not needed as props, they are just garbage?

That's some pretty desparate trolling.

I don't see any of those flags touching the ground, and it seems pretty safe to assume that they'll end up in a landfill, or some such - which means they could argue as being 'properly' disposed of. Not to mention - most of those are just 'representations of the flag', rather than actual flags. I saw one that MIGHT be an actual flag.

You're going to have to try a lot harder than that.

That's some pretty desparate trolling.

I don't see any of those flags touching the ground, and it seems pretty safe to assume that they'll end up in a landfill, or some such - which means they could argue as being 'properly' disposed of. Not to mention - most of those are just 'representations of the flag', rather than actual flags. I saw one that MIGHT be an actual flag.

You're going to have to try a lot harder than that.

It seems he's long since scurried off. Not the first time that's happened today. Is this typical of posters on this forum? Running away at the first sign of trouble?

i don't know about denver, but that's how they do it in the chicago burbs. only we got rid of the bags and just use bins.

To elaborate, the nicer Chicago 'burbs use bins, and within the city you can use bins if you're in a ward that the mayor likes. My ward still uses bags. [/grumble] but yes, there are several recycling systems that don't require separation-by-type beforehand.

Most of these 1 cent plastic flags end up in the trash anyways. So, what does it really matter?

Exactly. In fact you should be applauding the democrats for throwing out the flags. This way they'll have to go out and buy more for their next little shindig and thus increase consumption and help the economy.

*nods*

It seems he's long since scurried off. Not the first time that's happened today. Is this typical of posters on this forum? Running away at the first sign of trouble?

It's typical of SOME.

Meh. Maybe the trash will be burned and therefore the flags will be disposed of as they should?


1. The Flag should be folded in its customary manner.

2. It is important that the fire be sizeable and of sufficient intensity to ensure complete burning of the Flag.

3. Place the Flag on the fire.

4. The individual(s) can come to attention, salute the Flag, recite the Pledge of Allegiance and have a brief period of silent reflection.

5. After the flag is completely consumed, the fire should then be safely extinguished and the ashes buried.

6. Please make sure you are conforming to local/state fire codes or ordinances.


So the only thing you can really criticize is that the flags weren't properly folded up...

(Which reminds me: If the flag is to be disposed of, it is to be burned and that's a good thing; but if the flag is burned dispose of it, it suddenly becomes bad. How & why?)

It seems he's long since scurried off. Not the first time that's happened today. Is this typical of posters on this forum? Running away at the first sign of trouble?

No - it's typical of drive-by trolls on any forum, though. :)

Did we actually even manage to validate that those ARE, in fact, from the DNC?

(Which reminds me: If the flag is to be disposed of, it is to be burned and that's a good thing; but if the flag is burned dispose of it, it suddenly becomes bad. How & why?)

Careful, when you start questioning flag usage, it's very easy to become lost in the head-spinning confusion. For starters, take a look at the Flag Code (http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#USFC) and think about how many times you've seen presumably patriotic people break one or another regulation in the Code. The only bit that most people know about is the proper-disposal-by-burning bit, but there are tons of others regularly ignored. Plus the code doesn't fully address what is and is not a flag -- flag lapel pins are mentioned, but it doesn't cover little plastic disposable flags, or edible, cheesecake-based flags, or flag tattoos.

proper use of the flag
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1306/716146990_f881531ff8.jpg?v=0
also
http://img.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/061220/163447__colbert_l.jpg

It's not that they didn't keep them, it is that they disrespected the flags, which are a representation of the nation, so you can infer from that, that is how they think of the nation.

What on earth do you expect them to do with them? Send every flag to a luxury retirement home? Or should they take the approach of Catholics to unconsumed consecrated hosts and ceremonially burn them in a lengthy ceremony?

Seriously, is it just me or do Republican attacks on Obama get more pathetic every day? Why not challenge him on one of his real faults?

Careful, when you start questioning flag usage, it's very easy to become lost in the head-spinning confusion. For starters, take a look at the Flag Code (http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#USFC) and think about how many times you've seen presumably patriotic people break one or another regulation in the Code. The only bit that most people know about is the proper-disposal-by-burning bit, but there are tons of others regularly ignored. Plus the code doesn't fully address what is and is not a flag -- flag lapel pins are mentioned, but it doesn't cover little plastic disposable flags, or edible, cheesecake-based flags, or flag tattoos.

I've seen people wearing the flag, and no one bats an eyelash - yet it's pretty much verboten...

Seriously, is it just me or do Republican attacks on Obama get more pathetic every day? Why not challenge him on one of his real faults?

Obama farted in the elevator.

Vote McCain!

It seems he's long since scurried off. Not the first time that's happened today. Is this typical of posters on this forum? Running away at the first sign of trouble?

Post-and-run is all too common here.

Bitching about someone walking near your lawn while your house has been on fire for the past 2 hours.

Sometimes I wonder what(if anything) goes on in the heads of these people.

one last hing: Alpine Offers DNC Recycling Incentive (http://www.packaging-online.com/paperboardpackaging/OBM+Breaking+News/Alpine-Offers-DNC-Recycling-Incentive/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/533234?ref=25)

Alpine Waste & Recycling has something called "Altogether Recycling"

very kewl!

Obama farted in the elevator.

Vote McCain!

and he didn't say 'Excuse me!' :eek:

Careful, when you start questioning flag usage, it's very easy to become lost in the head-spinning confusion. For starters, take a look at the Flag Code (http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#USFC) and think about how many times you've seen presumably patriotic people break one or another regulation in the Code. The only bit that most people know about is the proper-disposal-by-burning bit, but there are tons of others regularly ignored. Plus the code doesn't fully address what is and is not a flag -- flag lapel pins are mentioned, but it doesn't cover little plastic disposable flags, or edible, cheesecake-based flags, or flag tattoos.
Without reading the link first, I'll just say that the other three I know are "Don't let the flag touch the ground" (even though it's American soil, so how's that bad?), "Don't fly the flag in darkness" (either take it down at night or put up a light), and "If you portray more than one flag on one pole, Old Glory belongs to the top or on the highest pole".
Now, let's check...

Well, not too far off - then again, that's only what I picked up in highschool. I don't fly the U.S. flag...
proper use of the flag
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1306/716146990_f881531ff8.jpg?v=0
also
http://img.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/061220/163447__colbert_l.jpg
Ooh... I really like the second one. (Although the 1st one does have a certain, very strange appeal. Must be Stephen, Stephen, he's a handsome man, his name is Stephen :eek2: :tongue:)
I've seen people wearing the flag, and no one bats an eyelash - yet it's pretty much verboten...
Well, the following should most definitely be verboten... :eek:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/StarsStripes1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/StarsStripes2.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/StarsStripes3.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/StarsStripes4.jpg

I mean, those lassies could catch a serious cold in those flimsy articles of "clothing". :$ :p :)

Flag-worship is strange and disturbing.

Flag-worship is strange and disturbing.

More strange and disturbing, is that it is so prevalent in a supposedly christian country...

excuse me GnI Not all Flag Worshippers are Christians. *huffs*

It's typical of SOME.

No - it's typical of drive-by trolls on any forum, though. :)

Did we actually even manage to validate that those ARE, in fact, from the DNC?

Post-and-run is all too common here.

I see. Well, that's unfortunate, I suppose. It will certainly make discussion considerably more one-way.

Ooh... I really like the second one. (Although the 1st one does have a certain, very strange appeal. Must be Stephen, Stephen, he's a handsome man, his name is Stephen :eek2: :tongue:)

Well, the following should most definitely be verboten... :eek:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/StarsStripes1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/StarsStripes2.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/StarsStripes3.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/StarsStripes4.jpg

I mean, those lassies could catch a serious cold in those flimsy articles of "clothing". :$ :p :)

Yeah Stephen is the man. :hail:


Also, I have the perfect pole for those flags

:rolleyes:




QQ.

More strange and disturbing, is that it is so prevalent in a supposedly christian country...
You're going to equate it to worshiping of idols, I presume?

You're going to equate it to worshiping of idols, I presume?

Not to say that it is generally the case in this country, but isn't that essentially what rabid nationalism is? The sort of nationalism the right has spent the past decade parading around as "patriotism."

I see. Well, that's unfortunate, I suppose. It will certainly make discussion considerably more one-way.

You earned my respect. You're a newcomer who argues well and actually finds it unfortunate that you have no opposition. I like you.

You earned my respect. You're a newcomer who argues well and actually finds it unfortunate that you have no opposition. I like you.

Thanks much. It's always good to feel welcome.

Thanks much. It's always good to feel welcome.

To be sure, I AM a bit of a gladiator in here. I'm the guy that enjoys the "fight" and acts a bit anime-ish... :p

To be sure, I AM a bit of a gladiator in here. I'm the guy that enjoys the "fight" and acts a bit anime-ish... :p

gladiator? for a while, I pictured you as a Pit Bull with some poor mailman's leg hanging from your mouth. :D

To be sure, I AM a bit of a gladiator in here. I'm the guy that enjoys the "fight" and acts a bit anime-ish... :p

Interesting.

Interesting.

I call my attacks, even! You should try, it's VERY fun! :D

gladiator? for a while, I pictured you as a Pit Bull with some poor mailman's leg hanging from your mouth. :D

Well... How much do you know about anime?

gladiator? for a while, I pictured you as a Pit Bull with some poor mailman's leg hanging from your mouth. :D

I knew my leg hurt for some reason. I hope Heikoku 2's rabies vaccination is up to date.

:tongue:

I knew my leg hurt for some reason. I hope Heikoku 2's rabies vaccination is up to date.

:tongue:

Oh, great, I wanna be compared to an anime/fighting game character and the pitbull comparison lives on. :p

Think of me as the forum version of Iori Yagami, if you will. :p

Well... How much do you know about anime?

too much! :D

too much! :D

Good! Well... Think of Iori Yagami, or maybe Kenpachi Zaraki... :D

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b181/stefstefstefstefstef/cosplay/cloud2.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b181/stefstefstefstefstef/cosplay/cloud2.jpg

So... You're either comparing me to Cloud or to a loser that cosplays like him, if well...

Most likely the second...

Ah well. :D

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b181/stefstefstefstefstef/cosplay/cloud2.jpg

Caption: Here's a man with no life.

Oh, great, I wanna be compared to an anime/fighting game character and the pitbull comparison lives on. :p

Think of me as the forum version of Iori Yagami, if you will. :p

Who's that?

Who's that?

Pretty violent and skilled guy from a fighting game...

So... You're either comparing me to Cloud or to a loser that cosplays like him, if well...

Most likely the second...

Ah well. :D

I'm just harassing you for giggles

I don't even know who that guy is supposed to be.

In my search I also found a hot cosplayer
http://kipi.lomo.jp/still/gallery/asuka_s/05.jpg

Good! Well... Think of Iori Yagami, or maybe Kenpachi Zaraki... :D

meh.

I would rather think of you as Batou.

now that's a gladiator.

I'm just harassing you for giggles

I don't even know who that guy is supposed to be.

In my search I also found a hot cosplayer
http://kipi.lomo.jp/still/gallery/asuka_s/05.jpg

Ah, a hot cosplayer of Miss Asuka Langley Sohryu! Nice!

meh.

I would rather think of you as Batou.

now that's a gladiator.

He doesn't do it for show or for the pleasure of fighting. ;)

(You mean the one from Ghost In The Shell, right?)

meh.

I would rather think of you as Batou.

now that's a gladiator.

And I'll be Motoko and we'll make out while kicking ass :fluffle:

He doesn't do it for show or for the pleasure of fighting. ;)

(You mean the one from Ghost In The Shell, right?)

nope, but neither does a Gladiator.

(yes, the one from GitS.)

And I'll be Motoko and we'll make out while kicking ass :fluffle:

You do realize you're asking ME to make out? o_O

Anyone else not liking the stadium stage setup?

nope, but neither does a Gladiator.

True. :p

But you got what I meant, a guy that makes a point of SHOWING while fighting.

Anyone else not liking the stadium stage setup?

Whats wrong with it?

True. :p

But you got what I meant, a guy that makes a point of SHOWING while fighting.

well... if that's your style... :p

Grrr.. cosplay. *snarles*

You do realize you're asking ME to make out? o_O

but only if you are Batou and I am Motoko

I'm not big on anime yet Ghost in the Shell is my favorite movie of all time

well... if that's your style... :p

Maybe Tatewaki Kuno?

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u63/fallen_ninja84/cosplauy.jpg

but only if you are Batou and I am Motoko

I'm not big on anime yet Ghost in the Shell is my favorite movie of all time

Depends, are you female IRL? ;)

@willy: it's weird

Ah, a hot cosplayer of Miss Asuka Langley Sohryu! Nice!
I once saw someone in a Psyloke Ninja outfit.

she LOOKED DAMNED HOT!!!

Maybe Tatewaki Kuno?... :D

Can we get off the pointless discussion of Cosplay and get back to the pointless discussion of plastic flags?

Depends, are you female IRL? ;)

No, but you aren't ever going to be Batou and It'll be a while before I am Motoko, so you don't have to worry about it.

Can we get off the pointless discussion of Cosplay and get back to the pointless discussion of plastic flags?

I REJECT!

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Spice3132/anime/bleach/ichigo%20and%20orihime/orihime/Bleach2085-470.jpg

The best one

http://koti.phnet.fi/otaku/cosplay/gundam2.jpg

No, but you aren't ever going to be Batou and It'll be a while before I am Motoko, so you don't have to worry about it.

So... You'll have a gender reassignment surgery?

Can we get off the pointless discussion of Cosplay and get back to the pointless discussion of plastic flags?

I was never talking about plastic flags. :mad:

So... You'll have a gender reassignment surgery?

There's doubt that there is any part of Motoko that is human.

There's doubt that there is any part of Motoko that is human.

Okay, you'll have a species reassignment surgery then. :p

that's the plan :)

There's doubt that there is any part of Motoko that is human.

her brain.

In my search I also found a hot cosplayer
http://kipi.lomo.jp/still/gallery/asuka_s/05.jpg

Is that Hitomi, dressed up there?

Yeah Stephen is the man. :hail:

Also, I have the perfect pole for those flags
Atten-HUT! Present... ARMS!
http://kipi.lomo.jp/still/gallery/asuka_s/05.jpg
Hello. I'm here to fix the plumbing...
Anyone else not liking the stadium stage setup?
Nah, 's okay. ;)

her brain.

I believe even Motoko was unsure if that was a fact

Ah, a hot cosplayer of Miss Asuka Langley Sohryu! Nice!
Meh... I've seen better.

Of course, I've also seen that which has scarred me for life, and that which has caused me to doubt my sanity, and that which just caused me to break out laughing hysterically when I saw Disneyland Security chase the full cast of Sailor Moon, including Tux Boy, across the Disneyland parking lot one night.

Meh... I've seen better.

PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!

Especially of Rei. >.>

PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!

Especially of Rei. >.>
When I get home, I'll go snag some.

When I get home, I'll go snag some.

I'll PM you my e-mail, and you'll send me just about EVERY good and sexy cosplayer of:

- Bleach.
- Evangelion.
- Cowboy Bebop.
- Tenchi Muyo.
- Sailor Moon.
- XXX Holic.
- Gunm.
- Ranma 1/2.
- Darkstalkers.
- Street Fighter.
- King of Fighters.
- Slayers.

And then I'll be forever in your debt and you'll get to collect it if you need. Or something. Do you need a kidney? I can get you a kidney.

Agreed? >.>

I've seen people wearing the flag, and no one bats an eyelash - yet it's pretty much verboten...

To quote Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8, in part...

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or
drapery.

Bit more than verboten.

To quote Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8, in part...



Bit more than verboten.

Given that "verboten" means "forbidden", it's not "a bit more", it's FORBIDDEN! :p

To quote Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8, in part...

Bit more than verboten.

That's the one I was thinking of. I've seen the argument made that, "it's okay, so long as it's not the WHOLE flag"... but I'm not buying it.

So those ladies should drop their flags pronto!

Shame on them, how dare they?

The Republicans will hold their convention. It will end about one week from now.

When it ends, I'm going to find photographs of their garbage, say the same thing you just said, and you'll agree with me and applaud me for showing their lack of patriotism.


Yes, I will. It shows their hypocracy more than their lack of patriotism, but throwing away flags is a bad idea period. It isn't a reason not to vote for a candidate, but more of a reflection of society today.

... really? is that what he was going on about? the flags?
The true irony would be if those flags were made in China? :eek2:

The true irony would be if those flags were made in China? :eek2:

How would that be 'the true irony'?

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I have personally never quite understood the American's zealous attitudes towards flag maintenance.

I don't agree with the burning or otherwise destroying of flags of any nation, by anyone.

However when it gets to the point of Americans childishly pointing to worthless plastic flags in a bin, and crying "Unpatriotic", or shunning a neighbour because his front lawn flag has a stain or rip... That indicates to me those particular so-called American patriots have some serious personal problems.

I have personally never quite understood the American's zealous attitudes towards flag maintenance.

I don't agree with the burning or otherwise destroying of flags of any nation, by anyone.

However when it gets to the point of Americans childishly pointing to worthless plastic flags in a bin, and crying "Unpatriotic", or shunning a neighbour because his front lawn flag has a stain or rip... That indicates to me those particular so-called American patriots have some serious personal problems.

Burning or destroying flags should be no different to any other piece of fabric.

To treat a flag any other way is idolatry.

Burning or destroying flags should be no different to any other piece of fabric.

To treat a flag any other way is idolatry.

I never said people shouldn't be allowed to burn flags. I'm just saying I wouldn't.

I never said people shouldn't be allowed to burn flags. I'm just saying I wouldn't.

That's not what you said:

"I don't agree with the burning or otherwise destroying of flags of any nation, by anyone".

The Republicans will hold their convention. It will end about one week from now.

When it ends, I'm going to find photographs of their garbage, say the same thing you just said, and you'll agree with me and applaud me for showing their lack of patriotism.

Or you'll admit you're on a fishing expedition and cut it off.

Right. Now.

What's your choice?

You mean the same type of fishing expedition you are on at the moment with your Obamas children thread.

Hey at least they cleaned up after themselves.

You mean the same type of fishing expedition you are on at the moment with your Obamas children thread.

Hey at least they cleaned up after themselves.

I was pointing out a hope that they do so, not claiming they did. o_O

What this calls for is a lengthy study on Political parties and what they throw out after conventions.

That's not what you said:

"I don't agree with the burning or otherwise destroying of flags of any nation, by anyone".

Alright then, let me clarify what I mean by that.

First, when I talk of burning flags, I mean burning flags in protest.

If you want to burn/destroy flags for sake of convenience i.e For some reason you don't want it anymore, or you need it for fuel, using it as an oily rag, sure why not it's your flag, you presumable bought it, do whatever. I might think it's a bit of a waste of a pretty piece of cloth, but it's your flag.

I don't like to see a flag being burned for the sake of protest. I think it's disproportionately disrespectful to a nation, and a waste of a pretty piece of cloth. However, at the same time, I'm not going to demand that the government arrest them, as I believe you seem to be thinking.

It's the same with me and smoking. I don't smoke, I don't like smoking in general, I think smoking is damaging, but I'm not going to stamp out my friends cigarette and demand he be arrested if he wants to light up. I try and convince my friends not to smoke, but if they really want to, well then fair enough, it's their decision.

I believe in personal freedom and liberty. That doesn't mean I have to like what people do with their liberty and freedom.

I have personally never quite understood the American's zealous attitudes towards flag maintenance.

I don't agree with the burning or otherwise destroying of flags of any nation, by anyone.

However when it gets to the point of Americans childishly pointing to worthless plastic flags in a bin, and crying "Unpatriotic", or shunning a neighbour because his front lawn flag has a stain or rip... That indicates to me those particular so-called American patriots have some serious personal problems.

Burning or destroying flags should be no different to any other piece of fabric.

To treat a flag any other way is idolatry.

Yeah, I don't agree with this flag worship thing we Americans have got going on either.

I, however, as a member of the U.S. military will be required to salute the flag many, many, many, many, many, many, many times over the course of my career despite my personal feelings on it. :(

I believe even Motoko was unsure if that was a fact
I think she was wondering if she can be considered human since her brain is the only orgainic she has and technology reached the point where brains can be hacked into.

To quote Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 8, in part...

Bit more than verboten.
I think the point was wearing the flag, not the pattern on the flag. so making a towel with the stars and stripes and draping in around your shoulders is not wearing the flag. taking a flag off of the flagpole and then turning it into a shirt is.

The true irony would be if those flags were made in China? :eek2:
not really... after all, the USA has a fine tradition of outsourcing to other countries.

Off Topic: Junii, I've seen it so many times but my bad memory doesn't serve to allow me to remember exact quotes, but luckily I found a review that backs me up:

http://anime.suite101.com/article.cfm/ghost_in_the_shell_anime_review

The heart of the film lies with Kusanagi, who we see being almost fully constructed in the opening sequence. She is plagued throughout the film with questions as to whether or not a human brain encased in a metallic shell qualifies as human. She even doubts that she has an organic brain, it being entirely possible to programme human memories into an artificial neural network. Does she, therefore, have a ghost – that indeterminable essence that makes us truly living beings?

The mere fact that she cannot be sure makes you wonder how long it will be before we in the real world are asking the same questions (besides the fact that we’ve been asking them since the dawn of civilization in one form or another).

So - yes I know officially, she is supposed to have a human brain, but my only point was she had doubts of it's existence. Also an artificial intelligence was able to construct it's own ghost without having any human parts at all. In the end (GITS II: Innocence) there is no doubt that Motoko no longer has any human parts left.

On Topic: Flags blah blah blah patriotism wank wank wank secret muslim fap fap fap

Off Topic: Junii, I've seen it so many times but my bad memory doesn't serve to allow me to remember exact quotes, but luckily I found a review that backs me up:

http://anime.suite101.com/article.cfm/ghost_in_the_shell_anime_review

So - yes I know officially, she is supposed to have a human brain, but my only point was she had doubts of it's existence. Also an artificial intelligence was able to construct it's own ghost without having any human parts at all. In the end (GITS II: Innocence) there is no doubt that Motoko no longer has any human parts left.

On Topic: Flags blah blah blah patriotism wank wank wank secret muslim fap fap fap

Continuing of topic (TBH, better topic than the treatment of baby flags)

"she doubts she has a human brain" not that she doesn't have a human brain.

and that was a sub topic of GitS:SAC where the Tachikomas were gaining sentience and she regretted her own rash judgement to have them scrapped before she could find out if they obtained a 'Ghost' of their own.

If they did have a Ghost, then what seperates humans from AI. that was her question and the topic of her search.

Technically, During GitSII: Innocence, you don't know that she gave up her body/Human mind. she is still listed as Missing. since her braincase was missing from the scene and it was placed in the child-body at the end of GitS.

I think the point was wearing the flag, not the pattern on the flag. so making a towel with the stars and stripes and draping in around your shoulders is not wearing the flag. taking a flag off of the flagpole and then turning it into a shirt is.

But by that measurement, flag pins are clearly not flags -- trying to hoist one up a flagpole is an exercise in futility. (Clinky, clinky futility.) On the other hand, flag pins and flag patches are mentioned in the flag code as being worthy of respectful treatment as they are replicas of the flag. That still leaves flag-printed t-shirts or Jasper Johns paintings in a gray area. Which I think was sort of Jasper Johns's point.

Continuing of topic (TBH, better topic than the treatment of baby flags)

"she doubts she has a human brain" not that she doesn't have a human brain.

and that was a sub topic of GitS:SAC where the Tachikomas were gaining sentience and she regretted her own rash judgement to have them scrapped before she could find out if they obtained a 'Ghost' of their own.

If they did have a Ghost, then what seperates humans from AI. that was her question and the topic of her search.

Technically, During GitSII: Innocence, you don't know that she gave up her body/Human mind. she is still listed as Missing. since her braincase was missing from the scene and it was placed in the child-body at the end of GitS.


I need to watch the series. Still haven't seen but one episode.

I love how the philosophical points keep coming up in GITS about A.I. and what constitutes life.

I've only seen Innocence twice but doesn't Motoko tell Bateau that 'she' is all over the net but primarily residing on a satellite? It was something like that right? I took that to mean that she exists as information stored in a machine. When she downloaded a partial copy of herself into that robot on the ship to help Bateau on his mission, is when she revealed that.

I have to imagine that the whole point of the merging with the puppet master was to form a new life form and lose the restrictions that both the puppet master and Motoko both had. I think that includes the human brain that she once held onto as her last remaining chance of being considered 'human' or 'alive'.

I need to watch the series. Still haven't seen but one episode.

I love how the philosophical points keep coming up in GITS about A.I. and what constitutes life.

I've only seen Innocence twice but doesn't Motoko tell Bateau that 'she' is all over the net but primarily residing on a satellite? It was something like that right? I took that to mean that she exists as information stored in a machine. When she downloaded a partial copy of herself into that robot on the ship to help Bateau on his mission, is when she revealed that.

I have to imagine that the whole point of the merging with the puppet master was to form a new life form and lose the restrictions that both the puppet master and Motoko both had. I think that includes the human brain that she once held onto as her last remaining chance of being considered 'human' or 'alive'.

I have got to see the movie, but I'll remind everyone that there are MANY animes in which this kind of definition is put into question. Evangelion, for one, no?

I have got to see the movie, but I'll remind everyone that there are MANY animes in which this kind of definition is put into question. Evangelion, for one, no?

For that matter, why limit it to anime? Most fiction that deals with robots has that question come up at some point. As I remember, though, the answer in Evangelion is "It doesn't matter, I was just really depressed!" so I think GitS has it beat as far as philosophy goes.

As I remember, though, the answer in Evangelion is "It doesn't matter, I was just really depressed!" so I think GitS has it beat as far as philosophy goes.

That's the worst good point I've ever seen. :D

no it isn't limited to GITS, anime or even just entertainment

there are philosophical arguments like this all over the place that I suspect won't be going away anytime soon.

GITS is just beautiful all around.

But by that measurement, flag pins are clearly not flags -- trying to hoist one up a flagpole is an exercise in futility. (Clinky, clinky futility.) On the other hand, flag pins and flag patches are mentioned in the flag code as being worthy of respectful treatment as they are replicas of the flag. That still leaves flag-printed t-shirts or Jasper Johns paintings in a gray area. Which I think was sort of Jasper Johns's point.
true, but flag pins and patches are not worn as clothes... unless one is into that sorta pain...

I need to watch the series. Still haven't seen but one episode.

I love how the philosophical points keep coming up in GITS about A.I. and what constitutes life.

I've only seen Innocence twice but doesn't Motoko tell Bateau that 'she' is all over the net but primarily residing on a satellite? It was something like that right? I took that to mean that she exists as information stored in a machine. When she downloaded a partial copy of herself into that robot on the ship to help Bateau on his mission, is when she revealed that.

I have to imagine that the whole point of the merging with the puppet master was to form a new life form and lose the restrictions that both the puppet master and Motoko both had. I think that includes the human brain that she once held onto as her last remaining chance of being considered 'human' or 'alive'.

Let me rewatch it... not sure.

I felt that the merging with the puppet master was to allow the Puppet Master to evolve. sorta like ST:TMP V'ger and the creator.

Yeah, I don't agree with this flag worship thing we Americans have got going on either.

I, however, as a member of the U.S. military will be required to salute the flag many, many, many, many, many, many, many times over the course of my career despite my personal feelings on it. :(

I wasn't too bothered about it to start with.

Aha, I thought... the flag is the symbol of the country. Okay, I get that.

But then I listened to the Pledge Of Allegiance, and I noticed:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands..."

"AND"

They really DO have you bowing the knee TO the flag. Crazy.

But then I listened to the Pledge Of Allegiance, and I noticed:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands..."

"AND"

They really DO have you bowing the knee TO the flag. Crazy.
Whoa, that's a little weird. I never really noticed it, you are actually pledging to the cloth on the stick. I'm guessing (hoping), though, that it's just a matter of euphony: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, which stands for a republic..." sounds unwieldy.

I'm curious what the OP would think if the Democrats had disposed of the flags in the proper way, that is, by burning them. Somehow, I doubt he would be praising their adherence to flag etiquette.

I guess now that the flags are not needed as props, they are just garbage?

Yes? It's not like they're anything but cloth and/or plastic.

Meh. Maybe the trash will be burned and therefore the flags will be disposed of as they should?


1. The Flag should be folded in its customary manner.

Why?


2. It is important that the fire be sizeable and of sufficient intensity to ensure complete burning of the Flag.

3. Place the Flag on the fire.

4. The individual(s) can come to attention, salute the Flag, recite the Pledge of Allegiance and have a brief period of silent reflection.



Yeah, pretty much why to everything that's not safety oriented. Seriously, you consider these things a valid concern why?

Careful, when you start questioning flag usage, it's very easy to become lost in the head-spinning confusion. For starters, take a look at the Flag Code (http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#USFC) and think about how many times you've seen presumably patriotic people break one or another regulation in the Code. The only bit that most people know about is the proper-disposal-by-burning bit, but there are tons of others regularly ignored. Plus the code doesn't fully address what is and is not a flag -- flag lapel pins are mentioned, but it doesn't cover little plastic disposable flags, or edible, cheesecake-based flags, or flag tattoos.

Patriotic flag toilet paper?

Why?

Yeah, pretty much why to everything that's not safety oriented. Seriously, you consider these things a valid concern why?

It's a satirical use of the Flag Code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code).

Yes, I will. It shows their hypocracy more than their lack of patriotism, but throwing away flags is a bad idea period.

How so?

I, however, as a member of the U.S. military will be required to salute the flag many, many, many, many, many, many, many times over the course of my career despite my personal feelings on it. :(

You will not, and CAN not be forced to do so. You merely fear the repercussions of not doing so.

You will not, and CAN not be forced to do so. You merely fear the repercussions of not doing so.

Force from intimidation is still force.

It's a satirical use of the Flag Code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code).

Consider that directed at anyone who finds these things a valid concern.

No worries. The RNC reused many of the DNC's trash. Recycle, Reuse, indeed.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/opinion/2008/09/06/republican-recycling/

"This morning, Republicans tell me that a worker at Invesco Field in Denver saved thousands of unused flags from the Democratic National Convention that were headed for the garbage. Guerrilla campaigning. They will use these flags at their own event today in Colorado Springs with John McCain and Sarah Palin."

No worries. The RNC reused many of the DNC's trash. Recycle, Reuse, indeed.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/opinion/2008/09/06/republican-recycling/

"This morning, Republicans tell me that a worker at Invesco Field in Denver saved thousands of unused flags from the Democratic National Convention that were headed for the garbage. Guerrilla campaigning. They will use these flags at their own event today in Colorado Springs with John McCain and Sarah Palin."

... ok... those are not plastic...

"This morning, Republicans tell me that a worker at Invesco Field in Denver saved thousands of unused flags from the Democratic National Convention that were headed for the garbage..."

except that the actual story is that somebody stole the flags. perhaps they should have guessed something was up when the flags came to them presorted...

except that the actual story is that somebody stole the flags. perhaps they should have guessed something was up when the flags came to them presorted...

can you suppy a link supporting that?

can you suppy a link supporting that?

same link. read below the picture.

some guy found a bunch of bags full of flags (and only flags...) and assumed they were garbage

same link. read below the picture.

some guy found a bunch of bags full of flags (and only flags...) and assumed they were garbage

Heh... I thought those were reader comments... :p

iffy...

UPDATE: I just spoke with the person at Invesco who found the flags and he thinks both sides are exaggerating a bit. The person claims the majority of the bags with flags n them were near the trash, on a dock, and would have been thrown away. He thinks it was probably an “oversight” by the Democrats rather than any nefarious plot against the flag. But doesn’t believe anyone was coming to get them. “The flags were there for a week and a day and no one came looking for them,” the person said.
sitting out there for a week and a day?


“American flags were proudly waved by the 75,000 people who joined Barack Obama at the Democratic Convention. John McCain should applaud that, but instead his supporters wrongfully took leftover bundles of our flags from the stadium to play a cheap political stunt calling into question our patriotism. On the same day he agrees to join Barack Obama at Ground Zero on September 11, John McCain attacks the patriotism of Obama supporters who so proudly waved the American flag at our historic event in Denver just days ago.”
– Democratic National Committee Spokeswoman Karen Finney

“Stories circulating about flags at the Democratic National Convention are false. We distributed more than 125,000 American made flags at the Convention - the flags removed from Invesco field were intended for other events and taken without permission. It’s disappointing that someone would take American flags without authorization and then falsely describe how they were being used. We have the utmost respect for the American flag, and it’s sad to see them being used for a cheap political stunt.”
– Democratic National Convention Committee

and if they were stolen, was there a police report filed? That's alotta property to have taken...

not saying who's right or wrong here. just that both sides are equally... fishy...

sitting out there for a week and a day?

and if they were stolen, was there a police report filed? That's alotta property to have taken...

yeah, presumably they were just overlooked - a lot of details to pay attention to all at once. but they weren't out in a dumpster or whatever, so they were not that guys to take. hence the stealing. not really, but i'm counter-playing it up for mum-ra here. but i would not put this sort of thing past republican operatives. very nixonian, actually.

my guess is that the people who were sorting out the recycling (volunteers from a couple of the universities around, i think) got stuck holding the, um, bag. and so they just put stuff off to the side figuring someone else would handle it later.

yeah, presumably they were just overlooked - a lot of details to pay attention to all at once. but they weren't out in a dumpster or whatever, so they were not that guys to take. hence the stealing. not really, but i'm counter-playing it up for mum-ra here. but i would not put this sort of thing past republican operatives. very nixonian, actually.

my guess is that the people who were sorting out the recycling (volunteers from a couple of the universities around, i think) got stuck holding the, um, bag. and so they just put stuff off to the side figuring someone else would handle it later.

if we take both sides to be truthful (as in they are not lying) then it really cannot be stealing since it was left there and hence just 'lost property'.

now the RNC is just being typical politicians when they say "Hey! lookiee here!"

but I don't think those were stolen. forgotten by the DNC yes. but nothing nefarious.

One thing I know for certain: Barack Obama didn’t order anyone to throw out 12,000 American flags

I certainly hope not, I hope he didn't order anyone not to throw out the flags either, we don't want another Jimmy Carter in the White House.

I seriously thought they had delivery! :eek:

I sense a the makings of a low budget DiGiorno commercial

As for the flags clearly the Democrats are in bed with the Chinese exporters. How else are they going to sell us more tiny American flags?

Snip.

This thread is about anime bullshit, you're threadjacking it with your DNC attack bullshit.

Most of these 1 cent plastic flags end up in the trash anyways. So, what does it really matter?

It matters when you want to troll and grasp at straws. Otherwise this is a relatively meaningless thread that I stopped in out of morbid curiosity. I will now leave and go onto something a little more thought provoking.

It seems he's long since scurried off. Not the first time that's happened today. Is this typical of posters on this forum? Running away at the first sign of trouble?

No, we call them trolls. They through stuff out there and try to elicit negative reactions and then they run off. Just ignore it and you'll be fine here.

All of those flags were in bags by themselves on the dock, according to the latest links herein. Seems to me to be an oversight. The continuation of the linked article goes on to make an excellent point -- the RNC better damned well make sure that not one image of any similar oversight happens on their watch, EVER. You pull this kind of gotcha, and it can rebound on you in seconds. But that's how the game is played nowadays.

What's far more disturbing to me were the replies in comments section. ONe person even said "I've gone from disliking [Democrats] to hating them" and further casting all Democrats as wastes of flesh. Over this. Folks, this is where my country has landed itself...these are the depths to which it has been allowed to sink. It is to weep, for even I can't laugh at it anymore.

What's far more disturbing to me were the replies in comments section. ONe person even said "I've gone from disliking [Democrats] to hating them" and further casting all Democrats as wastes of flesh. Over this. Folks, this is where my country has landed itself...these are the depths to which it has been allowed to sink. It is to weep, for even I can't laugh at it anymore.

That's what happens when today's demographics are mostly shallow and self-absorbed narcissists who make Reality Television a constant and easy hit, not to mention gladly swallows everything that FOXNews and other conservative media outlets spew like Monica Lewinski. Bushevism thrives on self-absorbed willful ignorance and unfortunately it's in abundance in the United States. Anyone who stands above the shallow mass will inevitably be shouted down as arrogant elitists and worse.