NationStates Jolt Archive

In accordance with Knights of Liberty's suggestion, here it is!

And since we were talking about Apocalypse...

Frankly, I can't help seeing this as a way for Games Workshop to try to get you to buy even MORE models. My Black Templars army is about 2,000 points strong, which more or less puts me out of the running in terms of a serious Apocalypse game. It would probably cost me at least $200 more in models alone to get an Apocalypse sized force.

So basically to play the same game I'm already playing but with biger, scarier templates, I gotta double the size of my army, but yet another rulebook, some more templates that aren't used anywhere else, and so on...

Hm.

Beat me to it...


Anyway, I am thinkin of trying Apoc just for the Angron rules. I want to kill (or field) a Traitor Primarch.

Im also hoping this means that other Primarchs will be made.

do NOT talk to me about the abominably bad idea stating a primarch was.

I don't play, or collect, but I read white dwarf cause the paintings are cool.

do NOT talk to me about the abominably bad idea stating a primarch was.

Curious as to why. In Apoc I think it be kinda fun, since its not meant to be balanced.


Then again, on the other hand, maybe it was a bad idea. Maybe some characters are best left to the imagination. As long as we dont get rules for Khorne or the Emperor however, I think it (should) be ok.



EDIT: Damn it, now I feel like I should start a WHFB thread. Meh, oh well, not so soon lol.

WHFB is for loners.

Curious as to why. In Apoc I think it be kinda fun, since its not meant to be balanced.

Because even though it's Apoc, the game is based on 40k ruleset, and 40k rulesets are not designed to handle creatures like a primarch, especially a demonic one.

I disagree with their attempt to stat a demon primarch because the rules are not sufficient to do the job right.

As long as we dont get rules for [...] the Emperor however, I think it (should) be ok.
At least you wouldn't have to worry about "either move or shoot" with Him, eh?

WHFB is for loners.

Die.;)

Because even though it's Apoc, the game is based on 40k ruleset, and 40k rulesets are not designed to handle creatures like a primarch, especially a demonic one.

I disagree with their attempt to stat a demon primarch because the rules are not sufficient to do the job right.


Fair enough, I guess I see where you are coming from, considering Angron's rules are rather....underwhelming. Six attacks? Dear God, I read the HH series and he should at LEAST have 20:p.


*thinks about a character with 20 attacks*

Wow...maybe you are right.

I just always thought itd be fun to redo Istvaan V in an Apoc game in all its glory. Or the seige of the Emperor's Palace.

Die.;)




Fair enough, I guess I see where you are coming from, considering Angron's rules are rather....underwhelming. Six attacks? Dear God, I read the HH series and he should at LEAST have 20:p.


*thinks about a character with 20 attacks*

Wow...maybe you are right.
well I don't mind necessarily a character with 20 attacks, it IS apocalypse after all.

But I mind the concept of a PRIMARCH being wounded by a lascannon on a 3+. Angron in MORTAL form was in a building that was stepped on by a titan wearing only bronze armor and walked out alive.

But I mind the concept of a PRIMARCH being wounded by a lascannon on a 3+. Angron in MORTAL form was in a building that was stepped on by a titan wearing only bronze armor and walked out alive.

This is true.

OMG lascannons with +4 armour saves but a -1 hit for being Abaddons bitch is like so bad.


I just wanna join in.

It's funny... when I was in high school we daydreamed about a game of Warhammer 40K so massive it could reach 100,000 total points on the table. In fact, we even tried to get humongous games going using the Rogue Trader ruleset...

But now that it's here all I can think of is 'meh.'

Rogue Trader, hehe. That was tacky.

I love Apocalypse for a simple reason, means I can get together four or five of my friends, divide us up into vaguely sensible sides and have a romp.

I don't really think it was meant to used for one person a side, but it's great for team games, for example at conventions.

No! This thread will not die!!

No! This thread will not die!!

Just hook the thread up to an Emperor-esque life support system. We can use it as a beacon.

Just hook the thread up to an Emperor-esque life support system. We can use it as a beacon.

Do I get crazy psycic powers too?

Do I get crazy psycic powers too?

No, but you do steadily get driven insane by your proximity to the thread.

...err, wait, this is 40k, not Cthulhu.

You can, pound for pound, buy cocaine cheaper.

Ah, Apoc, i luvz it :)

Great way to spend an afternoon with a bunch of mates, throwing way too large templates on eachothers armies.

Seeing half a company of guardsmen die in 1 shot is just funny.


Angron was a monstrously bad idea to stat, we just count him as a sooped up deamon prince

Can't say I'm a big fan of the 40k games.
The lore and (some) of the books, though, are interesting. I looooooooooooooooove the Ciaphas Cain books.

I'm personally not too keen on the idea of Apoc, as it seems to be a reason to part people from their money, in my rather cyncial opinion. Although, I've not actually played a game of it. The largest I've recently played is 4,000 points a side, with two of us on each side, which pretty fun.

Mind you, I've heard that they're going to release of that Stormlord hooge IFV, which I think I'll have to get, if it is true.
looooooooooooooooove the Ciaphas Cain books.
By far the best Guard fiction I've read, to be honest. Leagues better than the Gaunt crap.

By far the best Guard fiction I've read, to be honest. Leagues better than the Gaunt crap.

Wow, somebody agreed with me!
For some reason anybody who's heard of WH40k fiction that I talk to seems to love Gaunt.

WHFB is for loners.
I can't use my orc army because I lack the transportation, so I have a lonely army :(.

Wow, somebody agreed with me!
For some reason anybody who's heard of WH40k fiction that I talk to seems to love Gaunt.
I've been foolish enough to purchase the first two omnibus things. I really liked the short stories back in Inferno!, and thought I'd give them a try.

I slogged through them, in the vain hope that they'd get better. A couple of times, they threw up some massively interesting ideas (like the IG intervening in a planet's civil war, where that planet only has WWI tech), but by and large they're a poor knock-off of the Sharpe novels, best suited as short stories.

Cain, on the other hand, doesn't take itself too serious and really shows a WH40K universe that seems a bit more realistic, if you get me. One that actually functions and war, although constant, doesn't often touch a lot of places.

Plus the humour's excellent.

I've been foolish enough to purchase the first two omnibus things. I really liked the short stories back in Inferno!, and thought I'd give them a try.

I slogged through them, in the vain hope that they'd get better. A couple of times, they threw up some massively interesting ideas (like the IG intervening in a planet's civil war, where that planet only has WWI tech), but by and large they're a poor knock-off of the Sharpe novels, best suited as short stories.

Cain, on the other hand, doesn't take itself too serious and really shows a WH40K universe that seems a bit more realistic, if you get me. One that actually functions and war, although constant, doesn't often touch a lot of places.

Plus the humour's excellent.

Yeah, I have the first Gaunt omnibus and found the first two stories to be amazingly dull. The only vaguely interesting character was Rawne (the semi-mutinous major guy who wants to kill Gaunt), who doesn't get much 'screeentime' anyway...and his entire presence in the Ghosts is amazingly contrived anyway.
The third novel was somewhat interesting, if only because the Ghosts didn't do that much.

Mostly I didn't like them because they all sort of followed the wonderfully stereotypical 'elite unit and their idiot commanders manage to screw everything up, then the 'good guys' go in and save the day. The elite units idiot commanders then attempt to kill and/or otherwise hinder the 'good guys'. 'Good guys' win anyway. The end'.
The overall portrayal of the Guard just didn't sit well with me.

Whereas in Cain's universe things do seem a bit more...real. The corruption generally doesn't come in the form of guard commanders who are assholes for the sake of being assholes and frequently attempt to wipe out entire friendly units.
Plus, tyranids. Gotta love the 'nids.

I agree totally. The fact that the Cain books often show the ordinary people of the WH40K universe attemtping to go about their daily lives in spite of the stuff going on makes it seem more believable, in a way.

That, and some of the things Cain mentions about being a commissar seem more real than as they're usually show. Plugging away at every person who makes a mistake is a hell of a way to undermine morale, and ones like that'd probably get fragged very quickly.

You can, pound for pound, buy cocaine cheaper.
No shit!


Besides, take a look at this:

5th edition rule book (and mind you, it's exactly the same book!!! Okay, given, one is translated and the English one isn't even available. But their translations are sometimes - to be blunt - horribly crappy!!!):

Sold for US$ 50 in the US. (= EUR 34 or GBP 27)
Sold for EUR 50 in Germany. (= US$ 74 or GBP 40)
Sold for GBP 30 in GB. (= US$ 56 or EUR 37)

I ain't fucking paying 35-50% more for the same damn book.

Ah, Apoc, i luvz it :)

Great way to spend an afternoon with a bunch of mates, throwing way too large templates on eachothers armies.

Seeing half a company of guardsmen die in 1 shot is just funny.
Especially after you spent hours to march your armies to the table...

I don't know. On the one hand, the idea appeals to me. On the other hand, if you're going to use orbital strikes in the game, why land your troops before you bring'em down and not after you turned the surface into plate glass?

Especially after you spent hours to march your armies to the table...

I don't know. On the one hand, the idea appeals to me. On the other hand, if you're going to use orbital strikes in the game, why land your troops before you bring'em down and not after you turned the surface into plate glass?

The tabletop game bears no resemblance whatsoever to proper military tactics and/or strategy, it's still fun though.

The background is really amazing though.


Cain is a real treat, very nicely written, i especially enjoy the poking fun at the gaunt novels he does.
Those are quite nice though, Abnett gets better further in the series, i really liked Only in Death.

Can't say I'm a big fan of the 40k games.
The lore and (some) of the books, though, are interesting. I looooooooooooooooove the Ciaphas Cain books.
I love you, too. As does the Emperor. *nods*
By far the best Guard fiction I've read, to be honest. Leagues better than the Gaunt crap.
Fiction? Excuse me. Those are my memoirs!

But I wouldn't down-talk the accomplishments of a fellow commissar. I'm sure Gaunt did his best.
Cain, on the other hand, doesn't take itself too serious and really shows a WH40K universe that seems a bit more realistic, if you get me. One that actually functions and war, although constant, doesn't often touch a lot of places.

Plus the humour's excellent.
Why, thank you. I had hoped that my readers might enjoy it.
Whereas in Cain's universe things do seem a bit more...real.
Sometimes, if my memory serves me right, things got a little bit too real for my liking.
The corruption generally doesn't come in the form of guard commanders who are assholes for the sake of being assholes and frequently attempt to wipe out entire friendly units.
No, corruption generally wears too much make-up, smells too sweetly, serves to good an amasec for the kind of brothel she occupies - and will eat your soul when you don't watch your back. (Or have Jurgen waiting in the next room...)
[/QUOTE]Plus, tyranids. Gotta love the 'nids.[/QUOTE]
*draws gun and starts up chain-sword"
You take that back.
Now.
I agree totally. The fact that the Cain books often show the ordinary people of the WH40K universe attemtping to go about their daily lives in spite of the stuff going on makes it seem more believable, in a way.
Hey, all I was trying was to kick back a little and enjoy a quiet cup of Tanna...
That, and some of the things Cain mentions about being a commissar seem more real than as they're usually show. Plugging away at every person who makes a mistake is a hell of a way to undermine morale, and ones like that'd probably get fragged very quickly.
True enough, and commissars who adapt to this stance from the Schola Progenia schooling they have received seem to live longer, if I'm not mistaken.

Protect the troops, and the troops are more likely to protect you.

No, but you do steadily get driven insane by your proximity to the thread.

...err, wait, this is 40k, not Cthulhu.

This is true.

In 40k, being in contact with this thread would just melt your eyes.

You know, the writing of the "People's Hero" makes for a nice book - but it has nothing to do with the harsh reality of the world we live, fight, and usually die in.

I have led my Ghosts against insurmountable odds and yet come through. But, alas, at what cost, I ask you! Without my faith in the Emperor - "The Emperor protects!" - and my experience with the Beati, I'd be as lost as oh so many poor souls in the Imperium we struggle to defend and preserve.

The loss of Tanith alone would have shaken lesser men's beliefs.

Plus, it seems that my colleague in his tales omits the paperwork that goes along with the job quite frequently, if not willingly. (Not that I question the wisdom of the Departmento Munitorum in any way!)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/Tanith.jpg

Has anyone read the Warhammer 40K books? I've been looking to get into them, but I can't find a solid reading list. Any suggestions as to where to start and in what order to read them?

Has anyone read the Warhammer 40K books? I've been looking to get into them, but I can't find a solid reading list. Any suggestions as to where to start and in what order to read them?

The Cain series is good, and you can read it in any order you like, since the author notes, very clearly and frequently, that they're in no particular order.

Unfortunately, a lot of the rest are dreadfully dull. The Horus Heresy books manage to be passable in spots, but are terribly boring and slow in others. I understand that the Space Wolves books are pretty good (cant remember the exact series name), and some of the 'independent' books, IE: Not part of a series or by a 'famous' author, are good too.

The Cain series is good, and you can read it in any order you like, since the author notes, very clearly and frequently, that they're in no particular order.

Unfortunately, a lot of the rest are dreadfully dull. The Horus Heresy books manage to be passable in spots, but are terribly boring and slow in others. I understand that the Space Wolves books are pretty good (cant remember the exact series name), and some of the 'independent' books, IE: Not part of a series or by a 'famous' author, are good too.

Agreed. The book "Rebel Winter" was a great example of one of those independent books. Plenty of action, thought, blood, death, and smelly orks and the occasional rebel. Not to mention the book is about the Vostroyans.

Frankly, I can't help seeing this as a way for Games Workshop to try to get you to buy even MORE models. My Black Templars army is about 2,000 points strong, which more or less puts me out of the running in terms of a serious Apocalypse game. It would probably cost me at least $200 more in models alone to get an Apocalypse sized force.

I'm sure that's GW's intentions, but it does let those with excessively large amounts of models to use them all. I have roughly 4500 points of Cadians I've gathered over the years, and I've had a couple of rather fun Apocalypse games with them.

That being said, I actually prefer lower point games and absolutely loved Combat Patrol even if IG are horribly gimped in such games.

Those are quite nice though, Abnett gets better further in the series, i really liked Only in Death.
I've already read seven of his Gaunt's Ghosts, and I really don't feel like wading through the rest in order to see that they get better. I think it's a shame he's essentially GW's flagship author.
I don't know. On the one hand, the idea appeals to me. On the other hand, if you're going to use orbital strikes in the game, why land your troops before you bring'em down and not after you turned the surface into plate glass?
Some armies get the orbital strike stuff without Apocolypse. The Witch Hunters can call in lance strikes as a heavy support, which was sweet when I was playing a housemate and did that, cackling as I did.

Didn't do much, though.

Any one read any of the Deff Skwadron comics? I've been tempted to try to get my hands on them.

I'll say this for Apocalypse: It does fit the fluff better.

I mean, we always read about battles and armies in the 40K universe as being these huge, titanic struggles for entire worlds and yet the game itself was written for conflicts with fewer than 100 people on each side. When I go to the Battle Bunker and there's an Apocalypse game in progress, that LOOKS more like the sort of battle you'd expect to see in 40K.

But I do agree that it's a way to get people to buy more models, above all.

The next step will be models that may represent the same thing in both Apocalypse and 40K, but the version for each game will be different such that Tournaments will require the correct one, thus starting people on the road to having to buy two separate armies, one for each game.

I'm starting up a Chaos army. I've got a concept down - heavy on tactics, devoted to Tzeentch, quality over quantity. I need some ideas for how to build the army.

The next step will be models that may represent the same thing in both Apocalypse and 40K, but the version for each game will be different such that Tournaments will require the correct one, thus starting people on the road to having to buy two separate armies, one for each game.
I'd be surprised if even GW went that far.

Apocolypse has struck me before as attempting to play Epic with 40K-sized models. If I honestly wanted to play a game as big as some of these are, I'd play Epic.

40K-sized super heavies are all well and good, but I think it's a bit too far-fetched for 28mm scale, rather than 6mm.

The second Gaunt book isn't so bad. I liked many of the short stories, that also focusses in one of each of the men on his squad. Actually, I liked all of them (specially the sniper's and the Rawne's ones), more than the main story arc about the eldar in Monthax. And the seocnd book doesn't have any crap about superior officers being crappy to the Ghosts

However, the best of Abnett I have read so far is Sabbat Martyr. Specially the gathering of assassins by chaos to get rid of the beati.

I'm starting up a Chaos army. I've got a concept down - heavy on tactics, devoted to Tzeentch, quality over quantity. I need some ideas for how to build the army.

Build a minion army. Add stuff to it later.

By which I mean - if you target basic troops as the meat of your army, you're going to end up with a pretty versatile force. Play it a couple of times to find out where it is weak, and buy material specifically to fill it's holes. So - if you find out your army is versatile, but slow to respond to someone punching through the lines... you'll buy a couple of higher cost (actual price and points, probably) items to fix it... some extra armour, some artillery to cover gaps... or a couple of rapid response units.

There's a couple of good reasons to include a smallish expenisve unit/model, and take the hit in versatility (and sheer numbers) that comes with it:

1) Stuff can be expensive, even basic units. If you can get a really good deal on a tank... it might work out.

2) If you can get some serious armour (like Terminator, in 40k marine armies), you can play that as a tactical advantage. I've tied up half an army for two or three turns with a well-placed Terminator squad before, while my regular Marine Support Squads ripped holes in my enemy.

3) If not armour, sheer speed. Until me and a friend played allied marines and eldar, I had no idea how effective that could be. A small handful of Harlequin Jetbikes turned out to be worth wayyy more than their monetary or points value, by jumping through enemy lines and then bouncing from end to end of the enemy force.

4) The right character model, especially if you deck it out right (nice paint job, banners, etc... maybe a customised base - that kind fo thing) can do the same thing as heavy armour - cause an enemy to commit WAY more than the equivalent points value, to trying to take it down.


But starting with mainly a fairly regular force, maybe some spice, and then picking up bits as needed... got to be the way to go. (Unless you only want to buy once, and don't want to keep enhancing later). You can win battles with a fairly regular force, if you get the right tactics.

Oh, another great Abnett book is "Double Eagle". Looks like the Battle of Brtain in the WH40K universe. It is the first insight into the Imperial Fleet and Navy.

Yet, it is again filled with the asshatery of "superior officers being assholes to a mongrel, poor, and yet extremely talented regiment/squadron". In "Double Eagle", you even start to like the Apostles, that are in a way the same thing as the Volpones, but flying planes. It is a leitmotiv of his stories that I already started to loathe.

What about Ravenor? I read that and it was good.

Friends don't let friends play Warhammer 40K. It's like dooming them to chastity.

:D

Has anyone read the Warhammer 40K books? I've been looking to get into them, but I can't find a solid reading list. Any suggestions as to where to start and in what order to read them?
When it comes to 40K novels, the only ones I haven't read so far are Angels of Darkness, Red Fury (which arrived today), and Planetkill (which I started reading last night).

I've read all the other books, be they about Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Eldar, Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Necromunda, the Inquisition, Adeptus Arbites or the Horus Heresy.

Sure, there are slower reads and those that you simply wolf down in a day, but it really depends on what you like to read. I prefer Emperor-loyal books over Chaos-ridden ones. Space Marines over Imperial Guard. Inquisition over Orks.

I have read all the items on the list: Good stuff!
http://www.amazon.com/All-Warhammer-40K-Novels-Part-1/lm/R219XNUPGCUTRF/ref=cm_lm_byauthor_title_full

I haven't read Eternal Damnation (Comic? Short stories?) or Fire Warrior (Couldn't get it anywhere for a decent price) on this second list. The rest I have and enjoyed them:
http://www.amazon.com/All-Warhammer-40K-Novels-Part-2/lm/R2ELON68OPGXOC/ref=cm_lm_byauthor_title_full

And then there's the third part of the list including books all of which I've read and liked:
http://www.amazon.com/All-Warhammer-40K-Novels-Part-3/lm/R1X317QDFAK5L6/ref=cm_lm_byauthor_title_full

I'm not certain whether those lists are complete, but they look pretty good. You will notice that many "older" books from 2006 and earlier are already hard to come by. That again is GW for you. I tend to order them months ahead here in Germany so I won't miss'em.

What about Ravenor? I read that and it was good.

I rather liked it. While some people dislike Abnett's "Star Wars-like" 40k miniverse I think it works well in the Ravenor books.

I just finished Brotherhood of the Snake, which I didn't like as much. Kind, compassionate Space Marines? I prefer my 40k to be a bit more grimdark.

Friends don't let friends play Warhammer 40K. It's like dooming them to chastity.

:D

Pfft, show what you know. There are more than a few girls out there who are into guys who are into nerdy shit like 40k. :tongue:

That's a hell of a list.

The only one I'm going to be keeping my eye out for is the next Cain novel, which sounds like it could be the last.

Oh, another great Abnett book is "Double Eagle". Looks like the Battle of Brtain in the WH40K universe. It is the first insight into the Imperial Fleet and Navy.

Yet, it is again filled with the asshatery of "superior officers being assholes to a mongrel, poor, and yet extremely talented regiment/squadron". In "Double Eagle", you even start to like the Apostles, that are in a way the same thing as the Volpones, but flying planes. It is a leitmotiv of his stories that I already started to loathe.

What about Ravenor? I read that and it was good.
Double Eagle was a great read. I have first read Double Eagle, then The Eisenhorn Trilogy, and then the Ravenor books. That way, all the characters who are in the books appear in the "correct" order. Dan Abnett is a good writer IMHO.

Pfft, show what you know. There are more than a few girls out there who are into guys who are into nerdy shit like 40k. :tongue:

I'll raise my hand with this. Although the game, I really, really like is Battlefleet Gothic.

I'll raise my hand with this. Although the game, I really, really like is Battlefleet Gothic.

There are no women on the internet.

That's a hell of a list.

The only one I'm going to be keeping my eye out for is the next Cain novel, which sounds like it could be the last.
Tell me about it. Whenever I go home for a short visit at my parents' I take the "read" books with me because I definitely don't have the space in my little apartment to store them all here. Have a whole shelf full of them at home, though.

Hoping for the paperbacks of The Killing Ground and Titanicus: The God-Machines Go to War to be released soon.

I've already ordered Dark Disciple, Cain's Last Stand, Ice Guard, Mechanicum, and Only in Death. I believe those aren't on the lists up there yet.

I'll raise my hand with this. Although the game, I really, really like is Battlefleet Gothic.
Should you ever get your hands on Shadow Point or Execution Hour, those are BFG novels...

Should you ever get your hands on Shadow Point or Execution Hour, those are BFG novels...

Two of my favorite Black Library book, in fact. I also liked Relentless, but not as much as Gordon Rennie's books.

There are no women on the internet.

Nor Native Americans.

Should you ever get your hands on Shadow Point or Execution Hour, those are BFG novels...

I have never read any novel related to BFG...

I'll have to import those.

Nor Native Americans.

And there are definitely no Native American women.

I'd be surprised if even GW went that far.

Apocolypse has struck me before as attempting to play Epic with 40K-sized models. If I honestly wanted to play a game as big as some of these are, I'd play Epic.

40K-sized super heavies are all well and good, but I think it's a bit too far-fetched for 28mm scale, rather than 6mm.

And that's the thing... I had decided long ago that if I really wanted to play such huge battles then Epic was the way to go.

Maybe.... MAYBE one day if one of my 40K armies happens to grow to the size where I could conceivably play an Apocalypse game with what I have already, I'll try it. Until then, it's straight 40K for me.

And that's the thing... I had decided long ago that if I really wanted to play such huge battles then Epic was the way to go.

Maybe.... MAYBE one day if one of my 40K armies happens to grow to the size where I could conceivably play an Apocalypse game with what I have already, I'll try it. Until then, it's straight 40K for me.

I preferred the 40k rules, to be honest. If we REALLY wanted to play huge 40k battles, we just used our Epic armies, and 40k rules. Otherwise we just played Epic for big battles, and 40k for little ones...

I don'y really see the advantage in this whole apocalypse thing.

I preferred the 40k rules, to be honest. If we REALLY wanted to play huge 40k battles, we just used our Epic armies, and 40k rules. Otherwise we just played Epic for big battles, and 40k for little ones...

I don'y really see the advantage in this whole apocalypse thing.

The only thing I can think of, outside it being a marketing stunt, is that on some level people just like to put up their whole force at once because, frankly, it looks awesome as hell.

On the WH Fantasy side, I can field about 3500 points of Bretonnia. I RARELY field more than half of my total models in a game but I admit once in awhile it's fun to just put every single knight, peasant and trebuchet I have on the field and just have an all out war. (In fact, there's a set of rules in a recent White Dwarf that is the sort of analog to Apocalypse but for Fantasy)

So I can see the attraction is loading the table with every marine, tank and dreadnought you have and slugging it out.

Is it worth the extra rulebook and templates? Not to me, but then I can barely field 2000 points of Black Templars and my Tau army only consists of one model at the moment.

The only thing I can think of, outside it being a marketing stunt, is that on some level people just like to put up their whole force at once because, frankly, it looks awesome as hell.

On the WH Fantasy side, I can field about 3500 points of Bretonnia. I RARELY field more than half of my total models in a game but I admit once in awhile it's fun to just put every single knight, peasant and trebuchet I have on the field and just have an all out war. (In fact, there's a set of rules in a recent White Dwarf that is the sort of analog to Apocalypse but for Fantasy)

So I can see the attraction is loading the table with every marine, tank and dreadnought you have and slugging it out.

Is it worth the extra rulebook and templates? Not to me, but then I can barely field 2000 points of Black Templars and my Tau army only consists of one model at the moment.

I'm not sure it would have helped with my marine army. I was well on my way to a full chapter. I even had an entire first company in Terminator army. (Thanks to a combination of a sale at my local GW, and a friend who worked at the GW Mail Order place for a while). I wouldn't have needed a table, so much as a room. :)

Based on experience of GW... I have to suspect cynical marketing ploy.

I could put into the field probably about 1500 points of Guard, going for the standard army organisation chart. It's primarily infantry, 'cos I really like the idea of a rifle company supported by man-portable heavy weapons, with two tanks following the inter-war doctrine of infantry tanks and tank destroyers (Leman Russ Exterminator and Leman Russ Vanquisher respectively). I also plan to add a Leman Russ Annihilator modelled on the M10 Wolverine, so I could possibly push up to 2000 points at a stretch, but that's about it. I don't think I want to get another army, or really afford one. Possibly Space Wolves, as I think the idea of Vikings in space is quite a cool idea, plus they're really the most benevolent chapter out there.

I've been sorely tempted by a couple of the Forge World super-heavies, like the Macharius Vulcanian (tank with a Vulcan Mega Bolter - 15 dice of death!) but the rules of the Stormlord really caught my eye - its got a Vulcan Mega Bolter and it can carry 40 infantry models! Once I've got my confidence at converting vehicles (attempted an open-turreted Leman Russ has always been something I've wanted to do due to the old Epic model of one, and the M10 suits this) I think I might well have a go at making a Stormlord.

I'm not sure it would have helped with my marine army. I was well on my way to a full chapter. I even had an entire first company in Terminator army. (Thanks to a combination of a sale at my local GW, and a friend who worked at the GW Mail Order place for a while). I wouldn't have needed a table, so much as a room. :)

Based on experience of GW... I have to suspect cynical marketing ploy.

I won't disagree, and GW definitely knows what the customers want and how to make the most money providing it...

...which is why I generally don't hate 'em. I mean yeah, they're out there to squeeze t he money out, but at the same time they do give you something for your money, and TBH I think it's worth it. The quality of the models has gotten WAY better over the years, both in the sculpting and the materials.

I do believe Apocalypse is about marketing, but let's face it... Those who like it LOVE it and they're getting what they want so... Unless and until GW starts trying to push me into that, I don't really care. I'm just got gonna hold any illusions about it ;)

I won't disagree, and GW definitely knows what the customers want and how to make the most money providing it...

...which is why I generally don't hate 'em. I mean yeah, they're out there to squeeze t he money out, but at the same time they do give you something for your money, and TBH I think it's worth it. The quality of the models has gotten WAY better over the years, both in the sculpting and the materials.

I do believe Apocalypse is about marketing, but let's face it... Those who like it LOVE it and they're getting what they want so... Unless and until GW starts trying to push me into that, I don't really care. I'm just got gonna hold any illusions about it ;)

Yeah, well... when they beat you down and FORCE oversize templates in your hands, you'll just wish you'd stood up to them earlier... ;)

The quality of the models has gotten WAY better over the years, both in the sculpting and the materials.
I totally agree with that. The orcs (and Orks) were a joke until Brian Nelson was given them to do. I remember when his big 'uns came out for WHFB all those years ago, and we finally got orcs that actually looked brutal, rather than comedic. I don't really like the recent trend away from multi-part models and back towards plug-in ones, but so long as they don't go back to the ridiculous plug-in marines of the Second Edition box set, then we'll all be happy.

I recently looked at the newer Orlocks for Necromunda, and those are poor models compared to the older ones, which were fantastic. It's a shame that they appear to be palming off the Specialist games onto the newer sculpters. I bought one of the werewolves from Bloodbowl, but it damn looked like a horse. I had to cut the bugger's legs and head off and use a lot of Green Stuff and one of the new Chaos Hounds to make it look ferocious.

It's similarly a shame they got rid of the Soldiers of the Empire boxed set from WHFB, replacing it with the newer ones. No way as good, although to an extent the detail is better.

I own only one model of WH40k, although. And it is a conversion of a swooping hawk exarch and a banshee exarch. It was supposed to be my admiral for BFG.

I own a sizeable force of WHFB High Elves, however. One that I am planning to convert to Dark Elves.

Two of my favorite Black Library book, in fact. I also liked Relentless, but not as much as Gordon Rennie's books.
Oh yeah. I lost track of all their novels at some point...
I have never read any novel related to BFG...

I'll have to import those.
Good luck. Most of the older books are out of print. :(

Yeah, well... when they beat you down and FORCE oversize templates in your hands, you'll just wish you'd stood up to them earlier... ;)

We've sort of been taking steps to immunize ourselves from that in getting our own regulation size gaming table and scenery, so we can play at my place instead of the Battle Bunker. It saves gas, and it gives us the freedom to use non-GW models. In the Bretonnia rules it's possible to have a Bretonnian Lord on foot, yet there's really no GW model that could represent it. I have a couple of great Ral Partha miniatures that look like Bretonnians that I can use for that purpose at home. Now, since we're regulars up at GW they've indicated to me that I could probably get away with playing a model like that in their shop, but in a Tournament... no way.

I totally agree with that. The orcs (and Orks) were a joke until Brian Nelson was given them to do. I remember when his big 'uns came out for WHFB all those years ago, and we finally got orcs that actually looked brutal, rather than comedic. I don't really like the recent trend away from multi-part models and back towards plug-in ones, but so long as they don't go back to the ridiculous plug-in marines of the Second Edition box set, then we'll all be happy.

I recently looked at the newer Orlocks for Necromunda, and those are poor models compared to the older ones, which were fantastic. It's a shame that they appear to be palming off the Specialist games onto the newer sculpters. I bought one of the werewolves from Bloodbowl, but it damn looked like a horse. I had to cut the bugger's legs and head off and use a lot of Green Stuff and one of the new Chaos Hounds to make it look ferocious.

It's similarly a shame they got rid of the Soldiers of the Empire boxed set from WHFB, replacing it with the newer ones. No way as good, although to an extent the detail is better.

GW recently redid the Dark Elves and WOW! They took a mostly metal army and made it now mostly plastic with WAY better looking stuff.

I own only one model of WH40k, although. And it is a conversion of a swooping hawk exarch and a banshee exarch. It was supposed to be my admiral for BFG.

I own a sizeable force of WHFB High Elves, however. One that I am planning to convert to Dark Elves.

Very cool. I've seen some great conversions of Wood Elf Glade Riders converted to DE Dark Riders, and for my army I want to get Malekith but the dragon he comes with sucks, so I plan to get a High Elf Star Dragon and use that for the conversion.

We've sort of been taking steps to immunize ourselves from that in getting our own regulation size gaming table and scenery, so we can play at my place instead of the Battle Bunker. It saves gas, and it gives us the freedom to use non-GW models. In the Bretonnia rules it's possible to have a Bretonnian Lord on foot, yet there's really no GW model that could represent it. I have a couple of great Ral Partha miniatures that look like Bretonnians that I can use for that purpose at home. Now, since we're regulars up at GW they've indicated to me that I could probably get away with playing a model like that in their shop, but in a Tournament... no way.
I can see why they do it, but I still kind of disagree in principal to that rule. It seems unnecessarily stifling to a lot of modellers, especially ones who want to go in a slightly different direction to the mainstream armies. Can't really think of an example for WHFB, but one of my housemates is doing a WWI themed Guard army, and it virtually couldn't be done with GW Guardsmen, bar Krieg, and he wants to go for a British feel and one that wouldn't cost him an arm and a leg in resin models.

Plus he made a steam Leman Russ with undertones of a WWI British tank :p
Very cool. I've seen some great conversions of Wood Elf Glade Riders converted to DE Dark Riders, and for my army I want to get Malekith but the dragon he comes with sucks, so I plan to get a High Elf Star Dragon and use that for the conversion.
Awesome.

I must say I like the look of Malekith's dragon. The High Elf one looks a bit cumbersome and badly balanced. Like it'll keel over at the first opportunity. Malekith's one looks like a lot of the older dragon models they made, like that old High Elf special character or the old Wood Elf Forest Dragon.

I must say I like the look of Malekith's dragon. The High Elf one looks a bit cumbersome and badly balanced. Like it'll keel over at the first opportunity. Malekith's one looks like a lot of the older dragon models they made, like that old High Elf special character or the old Wood Elf Forest Dragon.

Yeah I really hated those. When they went to revamp the Dark Elves this year I was really hoping they'd do a Dark Elf dragon comparable to the HE Star Dragon. Now, In order to do Malekith the way I want to I'm going to have to buy a Malekith kit, ignore the dragon, buy a High Elf Star Dragon kit, ignore the rider, and do what I want with what remains.

Anywho... since this is a 40K thread...

uh...

Long live the Emperor!!!

Does GW even still sell Epic stuff?

Yeah, online. There was an article on specialist games in this month's UK edition of White Dwarf.

Never played WH40k, but I've played the Dawn of War computer games, which are quite good.

Can't really think of an example for WHFB, but one of my housemates is doing a WWI themed Guard army, and it virtually couldn't be done with GW Guardsmen, bar Krieg, and he wants to go for a British feel and one that wouldn't cost him an arm and a leg in resin models.

I've actually seen something like that before. Every year there's a small but impressive gaming convention in the city where I live, I've seen how somebody had created an Imperial Guard army with WWI German infantry miniatures which were somewhat modded to be more acceptable as 40K Imperial cannon fodder. It looked really nice. His tanks were regular GW models, so it was still recognizable as an Imperial army.

long live the emperor!!!

Maim! Kill! Burn!

I've actually seen something like that before. Every year there's a small but impressive gaming convention in the city where I live, I've seen how somebody had created an Imperial Guard army with WWI German infantry miniatures which were somewhat modded to be more acceptable as 40K Imperial cannon fodder. It looked really nice. His tanks were regular GW models, so it was still recognizable as an Imperial army.

Not that it's 40K, but there's a guy at my local Battle Bunker who has a Fantasy Empire army done to look like Union troops from the American Civil War.

Not that it's 40K, but there's a guy at my local Battle Bunker who has a Fantasy Empire army done to look like Union troops from the American Civil War.

Ive seen a Confederate one.


These guys need to meet up.

i don't play 40k,but i have a friend who collected them.mostly Tau and Marines.i have played Dawn of War and in it i preferred the Imperial Guard and i generally like em because they're not some supersoldiers but normal people drafted into war.and they got big tanks!BTW,what's Battle Bunker?

Ive seen a Confederate one.

These guys need to meet up.

Totally.

i don't play 40k,but i have a friend who collected them.mostly Tau and Marines.i have played Dawn of War and in it i preferred the Imperial Guard and i generally like em because they're not some supersoldiers but normal people drafted into war.and they got big tanks!BTW,what's Battle Bunker?

The Battle Bunker is basically a Games Workshop location with lots of tables and frequently runs special events.

Just the other day I've stumbled upon the goodness that is Bolter and Chainsword's Space Marine Painter.

And I have to admit, I've spent more time with it than I'd like to admit. But it's fun and now my own chapter (with most models still unpainted) at least has its color scheme complete.

Anyone had a look at the new Marine codex yet? What do they think?


I saw it today, and Im quite happy with it.

Anyone had a look at the new Marine codex yet? What do they think?


I saw it today, and Im quite happy with it.

Really? Aren't new Marines not out until next month? Or did you take a peek at a pre-order/advance/store copy?

I have a question. What's with that strange Space Marine Anti-Aircraft-esque Assault cannon I've seen?

Really? Aren't new Marines not out until next month? Or did you take a peek at a pre-order/advance/store copy?



Store copy.


I have a question. What's with that strange Space Marine Anti-Aircraft-esque Assault cannon I've seen?

No clue what youre talking about:tongue:

I have a question. What's with that strange Space Marine Anti-Aircraft-esque Assault cannon I've seen?
I believe what you're referring to is the mobile weapons platform.

Pretty much like the old tarantulas

http://homepages.tig.com.au/~tezzajw/tarantulasforsale.JPG

however GW turned them into fixed weapons platforms

http://www.ifelix.co.uk/images800/a10020.jpg

This new Thunderfire Cannon

http://www.pbase.com/brimstone/image/98138348.jpg

looks like a reinstated Imperial Guard Rapier, only for SM instead of IG

http://www.ifelix.co.uk/games/images/s014.jpg

(A pretty cool model, I have to say, which I was lucky enough to get my fingers on earlier this year)

Remember the old Imperial Guard soldiers that looked like the British Army in Africa from the late 18- early 1900s?

I believe what you're referring to is the mobile weapons platform.

Pretty much like the old tarantulas

http://homepages.tig.com.au/~tezzajw/tarantulasforsale.JPG

however GW turned them into fixed weapons platforms

http://www.ifelix.co.uk/images800/a10020.jpg

This new Thunderfire Cannon

http://www.pbase.com/brimstone/image/98138348.jpg

looks like a reinstated Imperial Guard Rapier, only for SM instead of IG

http://www.ifelix.co.uk/games/images/s014.jpg

(A pretty cool model, I have to say, which I was lucky enough to get my fingers on earlier this year)

From UNP's description, it's that new Thunderfire he's talking about.

I used to like the old rapiers. And Thudd Guns. What ever happened to Thudd Guns?

From UNP's description, it's that new Thunderfire he's talking about.

I used to like the old rapiers. And Thudd Guns. What ever happened to Thudd Guns?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/quadl.htm

:)

Still a nice litle piece of medium artillery for the guard.

Remember the old Imperial Guard soldiers that looked like the British Army in Africa from the late 18- early 1900s?
The Praetorians? Yeah, I remember them. Never much liked them, though.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/quadl.htm

:)

Still a nice litle piece of medium artillery for the guard.

They still use that nice quad blast template? That was probably my favourite 40k artillery...

They still use that nice quad blast template? That was probably my favourite 40k artillery...

It doesnt have the very special template anymore >.<

What it does now is fire 4 strength 5 small templates, at 48" range, no LOS needed.

Has anyone read the Warhammer 40K books? I've been looking to get into them, but I can't find a solid reading list. Any suggestions as to where to start and in what order to read them?

Well, I liked the Eisenhorn novels, and the Ravenor ones.

Well, I liked the Eisenhorn novels, and the Ravenor ones.
Nobody expects the... uhm... Imperial Inquisition!

Nobody expects the... uhm... Imperial Inquisition!
Unfortunately it's the opposite, you always expect the Inquisitors to show up whenever an Imperium story is told :p.

Unfortunately it's the opposite, you always expect the Inquisitors to show up whenever an Imperium story is told :p.

Just stear clear of the fancy dressed fop with the rabble of hangars-on and you'll be just fine....

http://lolcat.com/images/lolcats/191.jpg (http://lolcat.com/images/191.html)
lolwin!

[/thread]

I'm... speechless.

Anyone had a look at the new Marine codex yet? What do they think?


I saw it today, and Im quite happy with it.

I had heard of a possibility that the Black Templars were being merged with the new Space Marine Codex. Did you see anything like that when you looked at it?

I'd doubt it, why would you combine them when making them seperate earns more money?