NationStates Jolt Archive

We're coming to the end of the George W. era and I've yet to hear of a single positive policy decision that this man has made. Now to be Fair I'm Canadian so I don't get the full story but from what I've seen he's done practically nothing right. Does he have any redeeming qualities and how did he manage to get into office in the first place?????

"There are many ways to make a fortune, but the surest one is to be born in the right family".
~Donald Trump.

He stocked up aid for the Tsunami victims instead of bitching about how the West wasn't stingy when the West was called stingy.

His expansion of AIDS relief to Africa is notable, although more can certainly be done...primarily not tying aid to abstenance-only education policies.

Bush originally came into politics from the oil industry, where a number of companies he was running went bankrupt due to massive embezelment, not (I say this for legal reasons) necersarily by George Bush. After that he became the governor of Texas on thanks to the NRA and his daddy. Following this he stood for president with a mysteriously large cash fund (again I point out there is no proof of embezelment) from which he (allegerdly) bribed himself certain victory in the primaries. He then set out to take the Presidency using his remaining money, plus some Saudi Oil money as he didn't have enogh (again alegedly). This however was not enogh, so his brother Jeb Bush, the govenor of California rigged his states vote to help him out. Finally FOX News entered this unholy Alliance, broadcasting his victory despite the other Networks and election officials saying Al Gore had one. In the face of this the other networks, followed by the Election authoritys, chaged their mind and declared Bush the winner. Al then appealed but lost his appeal. And from there it only went downhill.......


Disclaimer - I am a Brit adn may have some details wrong. Also I apolgise for my poor spelling in advance.

Can U Spel?

Obviously not.

You must have been that "one child left behind".

He wasn't really evil, just really simple-minded.

Did anyone happen to catch that big article in Time this week?

Well........






......he's tall........

It might require a new phrase:

"All that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to make a retard their leader."

But more seriously, he's done fairly well in his foreign policy in the second administration. Not ecstatic, nor enough to get out from under the mountain of horsecrap that he left from the first, but fairly good. He's worked with the North Koreans, he's (until this Russian flareup) managed to contain Iranian nuclear ambitions without resorting to violence, and he's done a hell of a lot with AIDS work in Africa. Not much, but it's something.

He cut taxes.

Too bad he increased spending.

His expansion of AIDS relief to Africa is notable, although more can certainly be done...primarily not tying aid to abstenance-only education policies.

In addition to AIDS relief, the funding to combat other serious diseases like Malaria has really helped some of the poorest areas in Africa.

Also, while No Child Left Behind has generally been a terrible program, the idea of accountability to national educational standards is not awful on its face. Same with having some sort of centralized bureaucracy to coordinate between all the different security agencies -- not a terrible idea, just very, very poorly executed.

We're coming to the end of the George W. era and I've yet to hear of a single positive policy decision that this man has made. Now to be Fair I'm Canadian so I don't get the full story but from what I've seen he's done practically nothing right. Does he have any redeeming qualities and how did he manage to get into office in the first place?????

Easy. In 2000, the country was entering a recession. GWB pushed through a tax cut package that started the country on the road to recovery. The economy was resilient enough to go through the destruction caused by terrorists on 9/11/01, as well as the destruction caused by subsequent spending mishaps from this same administration.

In other words, if he had stopped with the tax cuts, things would have been great. Piling on the debt with things like the prescription drug supplement to Medicare was pretty stupid.

He's only slightly worse than either "bomb Iran" McCain or "lol, where's my policies" Obama.

George W. Bush is not going to be remembered as one of the greats, but neither is he going to be placed in the same category as James Buchanan or Warren Harding. What he set his mind to, was done, and generally competently; it is what he chose to do, rather than his incompetence at so doing, that is controversial and will relegate him to the limbo of the less successful.

What he set his mind to, was done, and generally competently

Yes, I for one sleep well at night knowing that terrorism, and Terror itself, is defeated forever.

Yes, I for one sleep well at night knowing that terrorism, and Terror itself, is defeated forever.

Starting a conflict and finishing it are two different things.

Starting a conflict and finishing it are two different things.

True, but one presumes he intended to do the latter. And has not. But this isn't exactly incompetence either, except as you say in what he chose to do - in this case, an task which is impossible to to.

True, but one presumes he intended to do the latter. And has not. But this isn't exactly incompetence either, except as you say in what he chose to do - in this case, an task which is impossible to to.

I can agree with that.

Hence the adage "Never Start What You Can't Finish."

He fixed Daddy's mistake of not getting rid of Saddam Hussein.

He looks sexeh when he dances to African tribal music. This excuses all.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CLYyMJ6XY6U

He fixed Daddy's mistake of not getting rid of Saddam Hussein.

Uh, no. Daddy knew that if he moved in the kind of shit that happened after the Iraq Invasion (Rampant Sectarian Violence, Iran's power rising uncontested, Terrorist Recruitment escalating) would happen. That's why he didn't go in. It wasn't until I read up and watched up on the exact details that I figured the big picture and thus changed my mind on him not moving in.

His tax cuts were great. I think that invading afganistan was the right thing to do, Iraq... not so much I think he acted on false info but went in with good intentions, the whole thing has been poorly handled though which I dont think is necessarily his fault but w/e. I think in general his economic policies have been beneficial. Same whit some of his energy policies as of late, such as allow us to drill off shore. He has supported nuclear power for a while which I personally like. I dont think he has been a terrible president, I just dont think he has had a great presidency either. I often feel he is very impulsive in his decision making, but I do not and have never felt that he has gone out of his way to do sketchy or malicious things.

The war on terror has been doing exactly as intended. (increaseing terrorism)

Besides the man is a puppet his only real crime is letting himself be used to commit war crimes among other things witch is bad enough on its own.

Iraq... not so much I think he acted on false info but went in with good intentions

And a vast new stretch of the Road to Hell has been dedicated to Dear Leader Dubya.

He gave hack comics materials that they'll use for years to come.

His pursuit of a two state solution in Palestine is commendable. Shame it came at a time when both Bush and the leaders of Israel and Palestine lack a solid political base to launch a peace process from.

The epitome of the Bush administration is the Bush basket ... when Bush took office $100.oo would fill a large shopping basket ...now your 100.oo will fill one of the new small basket that the stores are putting in ...
So I call the new small baskets a "Bush-basket" :)

Theyre gonna make a movie about him before his term's even up...

Doesnt make a lick of sense, but, its gotta count for something, lol...

Honestly, I'm not going to remember Bush as the worst president ever. His tax cuts were nice, he was great for Africa and SE Asia, and invading Afghanistan was the right thing to do. In Iraq, though, he acted too quickly on faulty info (though who's fault was the info? Not his.), and got us into a quagmire--the surge was a high point though.

Fundamentally, the invasion of Iraq was just, but the way he handled it was terrible.

Can anyone defend Bush? Hopefully a really incompetent lawyer appointed by the court.

Fundamentally, the invasion of Iraq was just

No, it wasn't.

Would you say that Russia's invasion of Georgia is just? Germany in Poland, Japan in China? These were all colonization attempts, just like that useless bloodshed in Iraq I got called anti-American by moronic motherf*ckers (an act I will get revenge for someday) for being against.

No, it wasn't.

Would you say that Russia's invasion of Georgia is just? Germany in Poland, Japan in China? These were all colonization attempts, just like that useless bloodshed in Iraq I got called anti-American by moronic motherf*ckers (an act I will get revenge for someday) for being against.

Okay, okay...WHAT?

You know, I've heard a lot of things thrown around about the Iraq war, but calling it a colonization attempt...I daresay that's the first I've heard of that ridiculous notion. I knew you had some really wacked out beliefs, but come on.

And revenge for some little sentiment about something that doesn't even directly affect you since you're a Brazilian anyway? Oversensitive/overreactive much?

You know, I've heard a lot of things thrown around about the Iraq war, but calling it a colonization attempt...

Yeah! we dont use words like that...We're gonna give them a democratic government in which they can do what they want.....

Provided they let us rape their land and resources for profit...

Can U Spel?

Obviously not.

You must have been that "one child left behind".

Did you not see his "
Disclaimer - I am a Brit adn may have some details wrong. Also I apolgise for my poor spelling in advance."

Apparently you were so quick to judge their spelling without reading their whole post. Absolutely unnecessary response. Knock it off.

Yeah! we dont use words like that...We're gonna give them a democratic government in which they can do what they want.....

Provided they let us rape their land and resources for profit...

That would be more along the lines of puppeting it rather than colonizing it. Colonizing it would involve moving in lots of Americans to inhabit the area.

That would be more along the lines of puppeting it rather than colonizing it. Colonizing it would involve moving in lots of Americans to inhabit the area.

Yeah...But who wants to live in Iraq, that place is a shithole...

If im gonna live in the desert, im goin to Nevada, there's plenty of recreation there, lol...

I don't know how to "Defende Bush." You know if Canada had "no child left behind" then we might talk about how to "defend" Bush's record. Otherwise I will set the secret service defend Bush, they do a pretty good job you know.

That would be more along the lines of puppeting it rather than colonizing it. Colonizing it would involve moving in lots of Americans to inhabit the area.

Oh. So now this "puppeting" matter makes everything seem fine? Colonization on the other hand is PURE EVIL !! Hey, but puppeting is absolutely fantastic miracle. Why not puppet every government in the world, huh?

Okay, okay...WHAT?

You know, I've heard a lot of things thrown around about the Iraq war, but calling it a colonization attempt...I daresay that's the first I've heard of that ridiculous notion. I knew you had some really wacked out beliefs, but come on.

And revenge for some little sentiment about something that doesn't even directly affect you since you're a Brazilian anyway? Oversensitive/overreactive much?

1- Colonization, lato sensu, includes exploitation of another country without settlement. Ta-da.

2- I got personally called an America-hater, anti-American, and other tripe for being against the war in the run-up to it. Now that I got proven right, yes, I want to go back in that chatroom (once I get a new IP, or alternatively I'm taking suggestions to circumvent MIRC bans) and rub it in their faces that I was right about it, and that the war THEY supported claimed more than 4 thousand of their soldiers. For NOTHING.

And, given that, as a Brazilian, the US supported the '64 coup in my country, yes, I have the right to be concerned when the US gets arrogant enough to think it can meddle like this in the affairs of other nations. The US does not have the right to pull this kind of crap.

1- Colonization, lato sensu, includes exploitation of another country without settlement. Ta-da.

2- I got personally called an America-hater, anti-American, and other tripe for being against the war in the run-up to it. Now that I got proven right, yes, I want to go back in that chatroom (once I get a new IP, or alternatively I'm taking suggestions to circumvent MIRC bans) and rub it in their faces that I was right about it, and that the war THEY supported claimed more than 4 thousand of their soldiers. For NOTHING.

And, given that, as a Brazilian, the US supported the '64 coup in my country, yes, I have the right to be concerned when the US gets arrogant enough to think it can meddle like this in the affairs of other nations. The US does not have the right to pull this kind of crap.

What if we pay you a Hefty Ransom? lol:tongue:

What if we pay you a Hefty Ransom? lol:tongue:

Then I'd forget about the affair as long as the payment was made with money from the sales of the organs of the morons that claimed opponents of the war were anti-American.

Oh. So now this "puppeting" matter makes everything seem fine? Colonization on the other hand is PURE EVIL !! Hey, but puppeting is absolutely fantastic miracle. Why not puppet every government in the world, huh?

I didn't say it was good. I didn't say the Iraq war was good at all, because it's not.

I'm simply stating that Heikoku is wacky.

1- Colonization, lato sensu, includes exploitation of another country without settlement. Ta-da.
Eh...that's pushing it, I think.

2- I got personally called an America-hater, anti-American, and other tripe for being against the war in the run-up to it. Now that I got proven right, yes, I want to go back in that chatroom (once I get a new IP, or alternatively I'm taking suggestions to circumvent MIRC bans) and rub it in their faces that I was right about it, and that the war THEY supported claimed more than 4 thousand of their soldiers. For NOTHING.

Oh, bah. Get over it.

And, given that, as a Brazilian, the US supported the '64 coup in my country, yes, I have the right to be concerned when the US gets arrogant enough to think it can meddle like this in the affairs of other nations. The US does not have the right to pull this kind of crap.

Please forgive me. I meant that getting called an America-hater shouldn't matter to you since you're an American, not that crap that the United States pulls shouldn't matter(which it most definitely should, and as I've said before, this crap is completely unacceptable.)

You're still wacky though. :tongue:

I didn't say it was good. I didn't say the Iraq war was good at all, because it's not.

I'm simply stating that Heikoku is wacky.

If I substitute "exploitation" for "colonization", will you drop it?

If I substitute "exploitation" for "colonization", will you drop it?

If you start selling us your Ethanol on the Cheap, lol...

Eh...that's pushing it, I think.

Oh, bah. Get over it.


Please forgive me. I meant that getting called an America-hater shouldn't matter to you since you're an American, not that crap that the United States pulls shouldn't matter(which it most definitely should, and as I've said before, this crap is completely unacceptable.)

You're still wacky though. :tongue:

1- Okay. Replace it with "exploitation". :p

2- I won't until I see at least one of them attempting suicide.

3- It was still a move used to shut me up unwarrantedly, namely by comparison with the terrorists. NOBODY shuts me up unwarrantedly.

4- I am. I also hold an old grudge that should get better the moment I get to rub this failure in the faces of the people that called me an U.S. hater.

If you start selling us your Ethanol on the Cheap, lol...

We won't. :p

He showed, without a doubt, what a mockery many US American institutions are at present.

What I was referring to by saying it was fundamentally just was that someone had to free the Iraqis from Saddam. Not a chance are you going to prove that American occupation (and a government supporting American withdrawal) is worse than living under Saddam Hussein.

What I was referring to by saying it was fundamentally just was that someone had to free the Iraqis from Saddam. Not a chance are you going to prove that American occupation (and a government supporting American withdrawal) is worse than living under Saddam Hussein.

That "someone" you speak of is named "The Iraqi People". You had no business invading.

What I was referring to by saying it was fundamentally just was that someone had to free the Iraqis from Saddam. Not a chance are you going to prove that American occupation (and a government supporting American withdrawal) is worse than living under Saddam Hussein.

Someone needed too, i think it wouldve been alot easier, and less expensive, on our part to just let them do it themselves, funnel them some arms, and money, and..Presto, regime change...

We do it in South America all the time...

I'm Canadian, but this is what I've found. 99% of the stuff he did withing the states was bad, that's by no means an actual statistic. For the rest of the world, he's done some good things, as mentioned above (ex. Tsunami and Aids).

Basically anything good he did was completed in the years 2001-2002; the 2001 tax cuts were a good idea, but thanks to Bush's utter lack of fiscal responsibility many of the benefits were squandered. After that, nothing but utter failure.

Someone needed too, i think it wouldve been alot easier, and less expensive, on our part to just let them do it themselves, funnel them some arms, and money, and..Presto, regime change...

We do it in South America all the time...

QED Brazil, '64. I hope LBJ is currently in Hell and I hope I can get to spit on Henry Kissinger's grave after hiring some perverts to defile his body.

QED Brazil, '64. I hope LBJ is currently in Hell and I hope I can get to spit on Henry Kissinger's grave after hiring some perverts to defile his body.

And see how well it works out, Lmfao...

And see how well it works out, Lmfao...

When that thing dies I'll be the first to make a thread celebrating it.

Well I don't know much about him but he is quite charismatic and funny :P. Can't say I agree with the policies of his I do know though. I like McCain he's old fashioned I feel I could have a good auld talk with him but in terms of leading a country I don't think he's fit for it. Obama's charismatic aswell and I like his style but I don't know much about his policies or anything.

It might require a new phrase:

"All that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to make a retard their leader."

And how does that make sense? you just said:

"All that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to make a slow down their leader."

retard is used in music, spelt as ritardando, which means to slow down the tempo. It then moved on to "mentally retarded", which is now a rude comment, but actually means mentally slowed down, or delayed. Yes, Bush is retarded (slowed down), but going by the correct definition, that doesn't make sense.

It might require a new phrase:

"All that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to make a retard their leader."

And how does that make sense? you just said:

"All that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to make a slow down their leader."

retard is used in music, spelt as ritardando, which means to slow down the tempo. It then moved on to "mentally retarded", which is now a rude comment, but actually means mentally slowed down, or delayed. Yes, Bush is retarded (slowed down), but going by the correct definition, that doesn't make sense.

"All that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to make a psychotic chimp their leader."

Better?

And yes, psychotic. He claims God told him to invade Iraq, he's psychotic.

Come on now, you honestly believe that the Palestinian PM wasn't embellishing, or just flat-out lying?

Man, god is everybody's fall guy.

Man, god is everybody's fall guy.

Well, blaming the Jews sort of fell out of favor after WWII so we're basically just taking the matter to their superior.

Come on now, you honestly believe that the Palestinian PM wasn't embellishing, or just flat-out lying?

About what?

george bushetail ran america in to the ground

About what?

That GWB told him that "God said to invade iraq"

"All that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to make a psychotic chimp their leader."

Better?

And yes, psychotic. He claims God told him to invade Iraq, he's psychotic.

yes it is!

Just remember everyone, the US & UK are part of the New World Order.

We fuck with other countries because Hogan told us to.

4 Life!

george bushetail ran america in to the ground

Just like every other business he has ever been placed in charge of. Chalk it up to corporate culture where incompetence is rewarded.

Just remember everyone, the US & UK are part of the New World Order.

We fuck with other countries because Hogan told us to.

4 Life!

We should be spray painting all them terrorist backs!!!

We're coming to the end of the George W. era and I've yet to hear of a single positive policy decision that this man has made. Now to be Fair I'm Canadian so I don't get the full story but from what I've seen he's done practically nothing right. Does he have any redeeming qualities and how did he manage to get into office in the first place?????

He may have only been in office for 8 years but his mark shall remain on this world for ages to come.

Atleast he doesn't spell defend w/a second e.

Just remember everyone, the US & UK are part of the New World Order.

We fuck with other countries because Hogan told us to.

4 Life!

We should be spray painting all them terrorist backs!!!

While dear leader plays air guitar.

His agressive policy on homeland security seems to have kept Americans safe

His agressive policy on homeland security seems to have kept Americans safe

I think its more to do with the crushing of Al Queda and their clones in Afghanistan, which anyone wouldve done after 9/11...

However, there is something to be said of them switching operations to Iraq, maybe that was the secret reason for the war, to make them switch their focus from us...

His agressive policy on homeland security seems to have kept Americans safe

If only because the terrorists have accomplished what they really wanted back in the Middle East. Attacking America any more than necessary to make a statement and provoke Dear Leader's cowboy mentality is for stereotypical cartoon villains in Chuck Norris movies.

I am VERY thankful that President Bush was our president on Sept. 11, 2001, and not that woeful dolt Al Gore.
At least we won't be pushed around by tyrants! How many attacks have there been on American soil since then? Answer: ZERO.
Yes, I'm thankful he's our president!

I am VERY thankful that President Bush was our president on Sept. 11, 2001, and not that woeful dolt Al Gore.
At least we won't be pushed around by tyrants! How many attacks have there been on American soil since then? Answer: ZERO.
Yes, I'm thankful he's our president!
hahahaha

yeah im SOOO glad that he never got osama bin laden.

His agressive policy on homeland security seems to have kept Americans safe

And another customer for my rock-that-keeps-away-tigers business...

He's only slightly worse than either "bomb Iran" McCain or "lol, where's my policies" Obama.

that is totally sigworthy ;)

anyway I don't think he's evil, just kinda stupid. I think he has done good things,
but I also think FDR most redeeming quality was an amazing ability to speak and otherwise he wasn't a very good president, so pay me no heed ;)

I am VERY thankful that President Bush was our president on Sept. 11, 2001, and not that woeful dolt Al Gore.
At least we won't be pushed around by tyrants! How many attacks have there been on American soil since then? Answer: ZERO.
Yes, I'm thankful he's our president!

*Sells to Dorksonia a rock that keeps away tigers*

Well, blaming the Jews sort of fell out of favor after WWII so we're basically just taking the matter to their superior.

True, that makes sense.

FDR?

Didn't he help you guys win the war or something?

I am VERY thankful that President Bush was our president on Sept. 11, 2001, and not that woeful dolt Al Gore.
At least we won't be pushed around by tyrants! How many attacks have there been on American soil since then? Answer: ZERO.


Seven. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks)

Seven. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks)

And we're done here.

And we're done here.

NO! I will Not let this go!

Theres a movie comin out Dammit! lol....

Seven. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks)

Rly nao? (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5icCsDXbi3Yojuvo5W4j01VxWio0wD92D4B1G0)

Real Jihad aftermath, that. (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5icCsDXbi3Yojuvo5W4j01VxWio0wD92D4B1G0)

What can be said about him? He is a pawn of chauvanist imperialism, and his 'international' 'terrorist' focus is because of the nature of globalized capitalism, in which capital must go all over the world, forge contacts everywhere and exploit everything.

To sustain global capitalism so that it doesn't collapse under the weight of it's own instability, it needs to constantly invade new countries, break down protectionist walls and loot them economically, which is what happened in Iraq.

The turn towards imperialism because of globalization is of course inevitable — meaning the complete domination of the trusts, the omnipotence of the big banks, a grand-scale colonial policy, and so forth.

He cut taxes.

Too bad he increased spending.

Why? It would have helped the economy.

I got called anti-American by moronic motherf*ckers (an act I will get revenge for someday) for being against.

Some of your posts suggest that you do not like the US, least of all because of US interference in Brazil.

He showed, without a doubt, what a mockery many US American institutions are at present.

Probably the best point so far.

His expansion of AIDS relief to Africa is notable, although more can certainly be done...primarily not tying aid to abstenance-only education policies.

I agree. The one shining part of the Bush Administration has been their aid to Africa.

Bush originally came into politics from the oil industry, where a number of companies he was running went bankrupt due to massive embezelment, not (I say this for legal reasons) necersarily by George Bush. After that he became the governor of Texas on thanks to the NRA and his daddy. Following this he stood for president with a mysteriously large cash fund (again I point out there is no proof of embezelment) from which he (allegerdly) bribed himself certain victory in the primaries. He then set out to take the Presidency using his remaining money, plus some Saudi Oil money as he didn't have enogh (again alegedly). This however was not enogh, so his brother Jeb Bush, the govenor of California rigged his states vote to help him out. Finally FOX News entered this unholy Alliance, broadcasting his victory despite the other Networks and election officials saying Al Gore had one. In the face of this the other networks, followed by the Election authoritys, chaged their mind and declared Bush the winner. Al then appealed but lost his appeal. And from there it only went downhill.......


Disclaimer - I am a Brit adn may have some details wrong. Also I apolgise for my poor spelling in advance.

Not bad, but Jeb Bush was the Governor of Florida.

To be fair, he has coined a lot of awful(ly funny) phrases.

"There's no question about it. Wall Street got drunk -- that's one of the reasons I asked you to turn off the TV cameras -- it got drunk and now it's got a hangover. The question is how long will it sober up and not try to do all these fancy financial instruments." --George W. Bush, speaking at a private fundraiser, Houston, Texas, July 18, 2008


"And they have no disregard for human life." --George W. Bush, on the brutality of Afghan fighters, Washington, D.C., July 15, 2008


"Amigo! Amigo!" --George W. Bush, calling out to Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi in Spanish at the G-8 Summit, Rusutsu, Japan, July 10, 2008


"Should the Iranian regime-do they have the sovereign right to have civilian nuclear power? So, like, if I were you, that's what I'd ask me. And the answer is, yes, they do." --George W. Bush, talking to reporters in Washington, D.C., July 2, 2008


...and lastly

"I heard somebody say, 'Where's (Nelson) Mandela?' Well, Mandela's dead. Because Saddam killed all the Mandelas." --George W. Bush, on the former South African president, who is still very much alive, Washington, D.C., Sept. 20, 2007




All of those (and more) are found here: http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbushisms.htm

He cut taxes.

Too bad he increased spending.

People complain a lot about "tax and spend liberals". Why do I never hear complaints about the much worse "don't tax, but continue spending" conservatives?

Honestly, I'm not going to remember Bush as the worst president ever. His tax cuts were nice, he was great for Africa and SE Asia, and invading Afghanistan was the right thing to do. In Iraq, though, he acted too quickly on faulty info (though who's fault was the info? Not his.), and got us into a quagmire--the surge was a high point though.

Fundamentally, the invasion of Iraq was just, but the way he handled it was terrible.

I don't think they were so judicious in their decision to invade Iraq. The more we learn about the Downing Street Memos, the orders to forge letters about yellowcake uranium at the CIA, and outing of covert CIA agents, the more we see that this was an intentionally planned policy. Did Iraq deserve to be smacked for defying the UN? Yes! Did the administration work to create their opening to invade? Yes. A war that was flawed from the start, and mismanaged costing many lives and $, is not a just war on any scale. They did a lot of fudging to get the war they wanted. I supported the invasion of Afghanistan, but not Iraq. We manufactured evidence to go into Iraq, plain and simple.

People complain a lot about "tax and spend liberals". Why do I never hear complaints about the much worse "don't tax, but continue spending" conservatives?

Because they tend to be the people involved in actual economic decision making...making money and influencing the economy tend not to be very flashy or noticeable, and neither lend themselves to outlandish demagoguery like politics.

Other than those of us in business (like myself ;)), how many people actually listen to Warren Buffet, Ben Bernanke or George Soros?

He may have only been in office for 8 years but his mark shall remain on this world for ages to come.

Is his mark by any chance six hundred three score and six?

I am VERY thankful that President Bush was our president on Sept. 11, 2001, and not that woeful dolt Al Gore.
At least we won't be pushed around by tyrants! How many attacks have there been on American soil since then? Answer: ZERO.
Yes, I'm thankful he's our president!

How many attacks had there been on American soil BEFORE he was in office? If you want to claim that his being in office prevented later attacks then I shall contend that his being in office CAUSED the September 11th attacks. I have as much proof of the later as you do of the former.

Bin Laden obviously saw him as a pushover.

How many attacks had there been on American soil BEFORE he was in office? If you want to claim that his being in office prevented later attacks then I shall contend that his being in office CAUSED the September 11th attacks. I have as much proof of the later as you do of the former.

I think the bombing of the world trade centre in 1993 certainly counts as on American soil.

I think the bombing of the world trade centre in 1993 certainly counts as on American soil.
In that case, the perpetrators were caught, tried, and imprisoned. Isn't that the way things are supposed to be done?

I think the bombing of the world trade centre in 1993 certainly counts as on American soil.

Oklaholma City was the other big one. There was that Millenium Plot in 2000 that was foiled, too.

The Atlanta Games bombing comes to mind.

Oklahoma City and Atlanta were homegrown terrorism, which is a little different from foreign infiltration (although of course a serious problem in its own right).

He invaded Afghanistan. Of course he also invaded Iraq, but still. He also cut taxes.

In that case, the perpetrators were caught, tried, and imprisoned. Isn't that the way things are supposed to be done?

Well no, because Osama bin Laden was behind that first attack. And yes that is the way things are supposed to be done, regardless there were attacks on American soil before Bush became President.

I think the bombing of the world trade centre in 1993 certainly counts as on American soil.

I keep forgetting that one wasn't domestic.

As for the others mentioned, I seem to recall a few homegrown nutbars engaging in terrorist acts during Shrubs reign as well.

I keep forgetting that one wasn't domestic.

As for the others mentioned, I seem to recall a few homegrown nutbars engaging in terrorist acts during Shrubs reign as well.

Yeah maybe I don't know I do know there where some attempted attacks (shoe bomber) but I do not recall.

He also cut taxes.
For the Toffs.

I can! I won't, but I can.

He's done some good things shame he can't stop declaring illegal Imorral wars, I'mBritish so same for Tony Bliar. I don't like war and I don't like lies to justify one!

George W. Bush is a first class ****.

George W. Bush is a first class ****.

****= Pres?

Some of your posts suggest that you do not like the US, least of all because of US interference in Brazil.

I don't believe countries exist as permanent entities. I hate LBJ and I want Kissinger to die slowly and painfully. The same goes for Bush and McCain. However, "America" has done nothing to me. Morons that claim I dislike their country because I disagree with that cursed, useless and doomed to failure bloodshed, however, did. Let me be clear: I want EVERY FOREIGNER that supported the dictatorship in Brazil DEAD AND IN HELL, but "America" isn't an entity on its own right any more than "Brazil" is. I do not hate America, these accusations were hurled at me, nay, at ALL OPPONENTS of this cursed war, to shut us up. And NOBODY shuts me up!

****= Pres?

I'd assume, and agree, with something more along the lines of evil, sociopathic, moronic, genocidal megalomaniac.

I don't believe countries exist as permanent entities. I hate LBJ and I want Kissinger to die slowly and painfully. The same goes for Bush and McCain. However, "America" has done nothing to me. Morons that claim I dislike their country because I disagree with that cursed, useless and doomed to failure bloodshed, however, did. Let me be clear: I want EVERY FOREIGNER that supported the dictatorship in Brazil DEAD AND IN HELL, but "America" isn't an entity on its own right any more than "Brazil" is. I do not hate America, these accusations were hurled at me, nay, at ALL OPPONENTS of this cursed war, to shut us up. And NOBODY shuts me up!

*hands you a slice of cheesecake*

I am VERY thankful that President Bush was our president on Sept. 11, 2001, and not that woeful dolt Al Gore.
At least we won't be pushed around by tyrants!

a guy living in a cave is a tyrant? i don't think that means what you think it means.

How many attacks have there been on American soil since then?

a series anthrax attacks, quite possibly done by some faction of the government itself. a significant number of shooting rampages by muslim extremists and nazis and republicans - including that recent on in the church who was out to kill him some liberals. the mailbox bomb guy making a smiley face across the country. two or three nailbombs that were fairly obviously political, though unclaimed. i don't know what to make of it, but there were some fairly simple 'bombs' that weren't capable of causing much damage that may or may not all be linked that were set at the british and mexican consulates in new york, as well as a military recruiting office in times square. oh, and a couple of accidentally and just barely foiled chemical weapons thing by nazis - fuckers had fucking nerve gas.

probably a bunch more i'm forgetting. more or less the same amount we've always had, in any case.

Rly nao? (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5icCsDXbi3Yojuvo5W4j01VxWio0wD92D4B1G0)

Amazingly enough, that doesn't diminish my point in the slightest. It just supports it.

Amazingly enough, that doesn't diminish my point in the slightest. It just supports it.

i think our friend there takes 'terrorism' to mean 'stuff done by muslims'. of course, as i mentioned, there have been a bunch of those too, so, um, yeah...


also, did nsg ever have a discussion about the fact that the fbi's case against ivins as the sole anthrax perp is clearly either the most incompetent thing they've ever tried to pass off as solid investigation, one of the stupidest cover-ups ever attempted by the feds, or so shrouded in secrecy that their public releases seem almost designed to just so happen to look like one of the above is the case? i mean, shit, everybody has called bullshit on it - their timeline is fucking impossible even if he had access to all the materials, which he didn't.

a guy living in a cave is a tyrant? i don't think that means what you think it means.



a series anthrax attacks, quite possibly done by some faction of the government itself. a significant number of shooting rampages by muslim extremists and nazis and republicans - including that recent on in the church who was out to kill him some liberals. the mailbox bomb guy making a smiley face across the country. two or three nailbombs that were fairly obviously political, though unclaimed. i don't know what to make of it, but there were some fairly simple 'bombs' that weren't capable of causing much damage that may or may not all be linked that were set at the british and mexican consulates in new york, as well as a military recruiting office in times square. oh, and a couple of accidentally and just barely foiled chemical weapons thing by nazis - fuckers had fucking nerve gas.

probably a bunch more i'm forgetting. more or less the same amount we've always had, in any case.
the dc area snipers.

I think the bombing of the world trade centre in 1993 certainly counts as on American soil.

right. so by that logic the score is 1-1.

Well no, because Osama bin Laden was behind that first attack. And yes that is the way things are supposed to be done, regardless there were attacks on American soil before Bush became President.
bin laden wasnt behind the first wtc attack.

bin laden wasnt behind the first wtc attack.

True in a way. He was indirectly related in some capacity. Mostly it was a result of the blind Cleric and his two cohorts.

Why? It would have helped the economy.

It doesn't. Government is always far less efficient at spending money than the market.

True in a way. He was indirectly related in some capacity. Mostly it was a result of the blind Cleric and his two cohorts.
thats what im thinking. that he was associated at that time with the people who were behind it. but he wasnt behind it himself.

It doesn't. Government is always far less efficient at spending money than the market.

this seems like something of a minority position among economists

Did you not see his "
Disclaimer - I am a Brit adn may have some details wrong. Also I apolgise for my poor spelling in advance."

Apparently you were so quick to judge their spelling without reading their whole post. Absolutely unnecessary response. Knock it off.

It makes it even worse as English should have been his first language. Terrible moderation for a terrible game and community. Fitting isn't it?

I feel bad for all the people still saying Iraq was all about the oil, when it obviously wasn't. The internet let's idiots speak too freely. Bush never had any intention to 'colonize' Iraq. He was informed by several governments that Iraq held WMDs, and basing off of that he invaded. Maybe it wasn't true, but there were other things there that needed to be taken care of. Also, how do we even know there weren't WMDs there? It took months for the yellowcake story to get out, and it would take possibly years to transport WMDs out if they had a large stockpile.

*hands you a slice of cheesecake*

Thanks. :p

I understand that he's a real people person. He's considered to be caring and concerned on an individual level and has a personal touch with people, even strangers, that is sincere and unhypocritical. This, of course, does not mean he's a good leader, but he means well.

I understand that he's a real people person. He's considered to be caring and concerned on an individual level and has a personal touch with people, even strangers, that is sincere and unhypocritical. This, of course, does not mean he's a good leader, but he means well.

That runs at about the same level, though, as "Stalin was a good grandfather": True? Maybe, but not too germane to the rest of the things he did, see?

People complain a lot about "tax and spend liberals". Why do I never hear complaints about the much worse "don't tax, but continue spending" conservatives?

Because you forgot about the old rule: It's Okay If You're a Republican.

Hold on, now.

I don't agree with every policy decision made by the Bush Administration, but it's a bit high-handed of a Canadian to mock our nation, don't you think? Americans never mock Canadians for their incessant problems over Quebec Separatism. Americans employ Canadian nationals such as Lorne Michaels, those guys from "Superbad," and approximately 85% of the N.H.L.

Oh, and Osama bin Laden is the definition of evil. I resent people calling the legitimacy of our attack on al qaeda into question. Terrorism IS a real threat, and thousands of patriots died on 9/11 as a result of that threat.

lol quite simply? NO
Bush is not only indefencable (even the arguement that he is just thick doesn't really wash with me he managed to fool two great nations into going into an illegal war, even if he can't stop dribbling like a baby! then again what does that say about Americans and us Brits?) but he is also unforgiveable!

Oh, and Osama bin Laden is the definition of evil. I resent people calling the legitimacy of our attack on al qaeda into question. Terrorism IS a real threat, and thousands of patriots died on 9/11 as a result of that threat.
who called our legitimate response to alqaeda into question?

and i dont think that dying in a terrorist attack makes you a patriot. bad use of the word.

they were innocent victims of terror.

to answer the question in the theads title: No, how do you defend an idiot

Amazingly enough, that doesn't diminish my point in the slightest. It just supports it.

'Attacks on American soil', I imagine would not include attacks by Americans. Or we'd have every case of assault or worse to choose from. The post you responded to never mentioned terrorism, and while I had once read it was suspected he wanted his cure to be recognised and further developed, it seems it has been lumped in along with everything else.

who called our legitimate response to alqaeda into question?

and i dont think that dying in a terrorist attack makes you a patriot. bad use of the word.

they were innocent victims of terror.

I, for one, would call a firefighter that knowingly enters a burning building to save lives a patriot. Moreover, many stories have surfaced about unprecedented acts of heroism performed in the moments before the towers fell by those that were still inside the buildings.

I, for one, would call a firefighter that knowingly enters a burning building to save lives a patriot. Moreover, many stories have surfaced about unprecedented acts of heroism performed in the moments before the towers fell by those that were still inside the buildings.

And, who, exactly, is telling those stories? It couldn't have been someone who saw it, since they all died.

And, who, exactly, is telling those stories? It couldn't have been someone who saw it, since they all died.

Those stories were told by SURVIVORS. Are you honestly arguing that there were no patriots on 9/11???

Those stories were told by SURVIVORS. Are you honestly arguing that there were no patriots on 9/11???

hmmm... I wouldn't call them patriots per se... I would call them HEROES.

hmmm... I wouldn't call them patriots per se... I would call them HEROES.

I believe they're patriots as well as heroes. Terminology aside, in the midst of a tragedy, a lot of Americans showed heart-warming humanity.

I believe they're patriots as well as heroes. Terminology aside, in the midst of a tragedy, a lot of Americans showed heart-warming humanity.
The problem is that by calling them "patriots", you're adding a national aspect to what they did. In reality, they simply helped others, as was their job and they considered their life calling. For risking their lives in order to do this, I'd be happy to call them "heroes".

Calling them patriots politicises their deeds and devalues them. It's no better than Islamists calling everyone a "martyr" all the time - to the extent that the word has a religious (and to them, therefore political) connotation.

I believe they're patriots as well as heroes. Terminology aside, in the midst of a tragedy, a lot of Americans showed heart-warming humanity.

that is your choice (not saying you're wrong, mind you) 9/11 was a dark time for America. and I'm glad the majority of Americans put aside their animosity to join as one for one brief moment.

The problem is that by calling them "patriots", you're adding a national aspect to what they did. In reality, they simply helped others, as was their job and they considered their life calling. For risking their lives in order to do this, I'd be happy to call them "heroes".

Calling them patriots politicises their deeds and devalues them. It's no better than Islamists calling everyone a "martyr" all the time - to the extent that the word has a religious (and to them, therefore political) connotation.

I disagree. By that logic, soldiers that jump on grenades aren't patriots because they enlisted in the military and, as such, are just doing their job. The firefighters that went into the buildings were patriots...they selflessly saved Americans. The passengers of United Flight 93 were patriots, they died to save their countrymen. By questioning the incredible valor, bravery, and (yes) patriotism of those that sacrificed themselves on 9/11, is to cast doubt upon the finest qualities of America.

Hold on, now.

I don't agree with every policy decision made by the Bush Administration, but it's a bit high-handed of a Canadian to mock our nation, don't you think? Americans never mock Canadians for their incessant problems over Quebec Separatism. Americans employ Canadian nationals such as Lorne Michaels, those guys from "Superbad," and approximately 85% of the N.H.L.

Obviously you never watched South Park.

Obviously you never watched South Park.

LOL. Good call. Re-write: I never mock Canada.

And how does that make sense? you just said:

"All that is required for evil to flourish is for good men to make a slow down their leader."

retard is used in music, spelt as ritardando, which means to slow down the tempo. It then moved on to "mentally retarded", which is now a rude comment, but actually means mentally slowed down, or delayed. Yes, Bush is retarded (slowed down), but going by the correct definition, that doesn't make sense.
oh my yes. Because we all know that words only ever have one exact meaning which never, ever changes over time. So when someone calls another a "retard" we all immediately think they calling them a 'slow-down'. Yup, definitely.
Why just the other day I was really gay and felt a little queer. You know exactly what I mean, don't you?
*no I don't mean Fass*

Back to Bush: He did teach a class all about a hungry goat. That's gotta count for something, right?

Those stories were told by SURVIVORS. Are you honestly arguing that there were no patriots on 9/11???
So you're in effect telling us that those men and women who risked their lives to save others on that dreadful day did so not out of any concern and respect to their fellow Man but only out of some odd obsession for their country? They only saved people because they thought their country was better than any other.
Hmmm...bet you were mightily peeved that they saved some who weren't even Americans. How unpatriotic of them! Saving non-patriots and non-Americans! My Goodness, is there any crime worse than that?!

So you're in effect telling us that those men and women who risked their lives to save others on that dreadful day did so not out of any concern and respect to their fellow Man but only out of some odd obsession for their country? They only saved people because they thought their country was better than any other.
Hmmm...bet you were mightily peeved that they saved some who weren't even Americans. How unpatriotic of them! Saving non-patriots and non-Americans! My Goodness, is there any crime worse than that?!


Goodness gracious! Jee Willikers!!!

Say what you will. I still consider them to be patriots. Feel free to have an opposing opinion. That said, I wouldn't recommend putting your position on a bumper sticker anytime soon.

Those stories were told by SURVIVORS. Are you honestly arguing that there were no patriots on 9/11???

Not by any non-meaningless use of the word, no.

I'd assume, and agree, with something more along the lines of evil, sociopathic, moronic, genocidal megalomaniac.

No because none of those words are comprise of only four letters, except for evil but then saying Bush is a first class evil, doesn't make sense.

right. so by that logic the score is 1-1.

What logic? And don't say exactly, your post doesn't make any sense

It doesn't. Government is always far less efficient at spending money than the market.

Well it does because money is placed into the economy both by spending and through the form of tax cuts, this extra money in the economy increases demand and helps the economy to grow.

No because none of those words are comprise of only four letters, except for evil but then saying Bush is a first class evil, doesn't make sense.

I shouldn't have to live in a world where all the good points are terrible ones.

I shouldn't have to live in a world where all the good points are terrible ones.

I was only joking with you mate, I knew what you meant. But I am sure you can think what the original person meant the Bush is a ****.

Heikoku 2, Look at what your people are doing to the Natives in Amazonia. But also, Look to you north. Hugo Chavez has BIG plans for Brazil, so when Brazil goes crying to the U.N. the USA might, Dare I say it, intervene on Brazil's behalf.

Well it does because money is placed into the economy both by spending and through the form of tax cuts, this extra money in the economy increases demand and helps the economy to grow.

But it has to be financed by borrowing, which is one of the reasons why our country's currency has depreciated so severely over the past eight years. Not to mention it harms our ability to finance future entitlement obligations, something which will pose a far greater economic threat than any short-term gains to be realized by deficit spending.

But it has to be financed by borrowing, which is one of the reasons why our country's currency has depreciated so severely over the past eight years. Not to mention it harms our ability to finance future entitlement obligations, something which will pose a far greater economic threat than any short-term gains to be realized by deficit spending.

Actually I forgot that the US budget was running a deficit at the moment. It should have during the past few years during times of strong economic growth been running a surplus in the budget.

Heikoku 2, Look at what your people are doing to the Natives in Amazonia. But also, Look to you north. Hugo Chavez has BIG plans for Brazil, so when Brazil goes crying to the U.N. the USA might, Dare I say it, intervene on Brazil's behalf.

Why the fuck are they "my" people? Did I vote the criminals in? NO. Are they even elected? NO. Do I support them? NO. Am I their father? I never got laid in my life, and I'm 27, meaning they'd be at most 14, so NO. BUSH, on the other hand, was voted in and started murder that was state-sponsored. Also, not only is Brazil perfectly capable of defending itself against Venezuela if need be, Chavez would not attack us. Venezuela is a friendly state at the moment. You can keep your help for yourselves, WE DO NOT FUCKING WANT IT, NOR DO WE FUCKING NEED IT! Your "help" was a COUP D'ETAT in 1964 last time, and I still hope LBJ's soul is getting raped with a chainsaw turned on for eternity for it!

Can U Spel?

Obviously not.

You must have been that "one child left behind".

Aw did I hurt your sense of Patriotism Hotwife :'(. Thought I said I wasn't from the states. That "no child left behind (as long as their parents have enough money" is a states thing.

Actually I forgot that the US budget was running a deficit at the moment. It should have during the past few years during times of strong economic growth been running a surplus in the budget.

not after the trillions they poured into defense, two wars and hiring "private contractors" such as blackwater. The states is running a multi Trillion dollar deficit. Actually theres this cool monument to it on wall street in NYC. Its a massive billboard with the USA debt figures posted there. Two years Ago I was there and in about 5 minutes it went up (the debt increased that is) by something like 500 000 dollars.

Why the fuck are they "my" people? Did I vote the criminals in? NO. Are they even elected? NO. Do I support them? NO. Am I their father? I never got laid in my life, and I'm 27, meaning they'd be at most 14, so NO. BUSH, on the other hand, was voted in and started murder that was state-sponsored. Also, not only is Brazil perfectly capable of defending itself against Venezuela if need be, Chavez would not attack us. Venezuela is a friendly state at the moment. You can keep your help for yourselves, WE DO NOT FUCKING WANT IT, NOR DO WE FUCKING NEED IT! Your "help" was a COUP D'ETAT in 1964 last time, and I still hope LBJ's soul is getting raped with a chainsaw turned on for eternity for it!

Amen to that Keikoku though the not getting laid and being 27 thing kinda sucks ,. .. .or maybe not depends on who you ask I guess.

George W. Bush is not going to be remembered as one of the greats, but neither is he going to be placed in the same category as James Buchanan or Warren Harding. What he set his mind to, was done, and generally competently; it is what he chose to do, rather than his incompetence at so doing, that is controversial and will relegate him to the limbo of the less successful.

Woh???? competently. Back that up please. His war on terror has left the states in debt of massive proportions as well as killing/injuring/disabling a whole boatload of American soldiers and civilians. His "tax cuts" have obviously not helped the American economy (read Fannie Mae/ Freddie Mac). (check the stock market. Many of the "leading American stocks" that have been solid buys for the last couple of years at least are falling like crazy). His "foreign policy" has consisted of essentially letting China pretend to deal with Korea as Iran spirals out of control and Israel Finds itself surrounded by enemies . . .again . . . .With the states sitting back and only making things worse. The American education system is either seriously considering teaching or already teaching Creationism alongside Evolution and its social welfare and health care (governmental that is) programs are going down the tubes.

Amen to that Keikoku though the not getting laid and being 27 thing kinda sucks ,. .. .or maybe not depends on who you ask I guess.

It does, but not only I solve it through, well, you know, that's not the point. :p

It does, but not only I solve it through, well, you know, that's not the point. :p

lmao second time I agree with you on one page lol

Woh???? competently. Back that up please. His war on terror has left the states in debt of massive proportions as well as killing/injuring/disabling a whole boatload of American soldiers and civilians. His "tax cuts" have obviously not helped the American economy (read Fannie Mae/ Freddie Mac). (check the stock market. Many of the "leading American stocks" that have been solid buys for the last couple of years at least are falling like crazy). His "foreign policy" has consisted of essentially letting China pretend to deal with Korea as Iran spirals out of control and Israel Finds itself surrounded by enemies . . .again . . . .With the states sitting back and only making things worse. The American education system is either seriously considering teaching or already teaching Creationism alongside Evolution and its social welfare and health care (governmental that is) programs are going down the tubes.

ah, but the question is, did the bush administration care about such things? they've done a pretty good job creating an authoritarian police-state-trending system in which the leaders can openly break the law with impunity and created a turbulent international system where wars of aggression are acceptable. which is more or less what they said they wanted to do (as long as you don't mistake campaign promises for plans)

BUSH, on the other hand, was voted in
No he wasn't.

ah, but the question is, did the bush administration care about such things? they've done a pretty good job creating an authoritarian police-state-trending system in which the leaders can openly break the law with impunity and created a turbulent international system where wars of aggression are acceptable. which is more or less what they said they wanted to do (as long as you don't mistake campaign promises for plans)

right. So either he's an idiot or he's very very smart and a totalitarian. . . .hmmmm not a lot of good choices there

We now have an agreement with Iraq to bring the troops home.

You can blame Bush for that one, lol.

We now have an agreement with Iraq to bring the troops home.

You can blame Bush for that one, lol.

You mean the man who firmly vetoed an attempt by the democratic congress to do exactly that?

The man who said there would be no "artificial timetable for withdraw"?

This has nothing to do with Bush, and everything to do with a calculated effort to make John "100 years" McCain not appear like he belongs to a party that is unwilling to settle this war, by adopting a plan remarkably similar to the one advocated by the man currently beatting McCain in the polls, Barak Obama.

So no, I don't thank Bush, I thank Obama, because it was he who actually showed the administration that if the republican party insists on being the party of indefinite goals in Iraq, it will be the party of the minority. If Obama wasn't beating McCain right now, this would never have happened, as the Bush administration already showed it doens't give a damn about actual american lives, and cares only about its legacy, and preserving a failing republican powerbase.

Where were the talks of withdraw timetables before Obama, who was proposing such, started looking like he was going to win? In the trash can next to the president's desk.

You mean the man who firmly vetoed an attempt by the democratic congress to do exactly that?


Ooh! Ooh! I know this one! It's Bill Clinton, right?

You mean the man who firmly vetoed an attempt by the democratic congress to do exactly that?

The man who said there would be no "artificial timetable for withdraw"?

This has nothing to do with Bush, and everything to do with a calculated effort to make John "100 years" McCain not appear like he belongs to a party that is unwilling to settle this war, by adopting a plan remarkably similar to the one advocated by the man currently beatting McCain in the polls, Barak Obama.

So no, I don't thank Bush, I thank Obama, because it was he who actually showed the administration that if the republican party insists on being the party of indefinite goals in Iraq, it will be the party of the minority. If Obama wasn't beating McCain right now, this would never have happened, as the Bush administration already showed it doens't give a damn about actual american lives, and cares only about its legacy, and preserving a failing republican powerbase.

Where were the talks of withdraw timetables before Obama, who was proposing such, started looking like he was going to win? In the trash can next to the president's desk.

Nope, it was the Iraqis that wanted it.

So history books are going to give Bush credit, as it was negotiated during his term.

Sorry, Obama.

Nope, it was the Iraqis that wanted it.

So history books are going to give Bush credit, as it was negotiated during his term.

Sorry, Obama.

I wouldn't feel too bad for Obama, he's going to have 8 years to design his own legacy.

We now have an agreement with Iraq to bring the troops home.

You can blame Bush for that one, lol.

theres been a plan in place to bring the troops home for five years. They are still not home. This one any different? (oh and your still fighting in Afganistan too). And your claiming bush will get the credit for maybe devising a plan to get his troops out that 6 or 7 years after he declared the war was over in Iraq. Not something I'd really wanna go down in history for. You actually support this guy hotwife?

We're coming to the end of the George W. era and I've yet to hear of a single positive policy decision that this man has made. Now to be Fair I'm Canadian so I don't get the full story but from what I've seen he's done practically nothing right. Does he have any redeeming qualities and how did he manage to get into office in the first place?????

Where the hell is Cicero when one needs him?

dead for the last 1965 years unfortunately

Bush originally came into politics from the oil industry, where a number of companies he was running went bankrupt due to massive embezelment, not (I say this for legal reasons) necersarily by George Bush. After that he became the governor of Texas on thanks to the NRA and his daddy. Following this he stood for president with a mysteriously large cash fund (again I point out there is no proof of embezelment) from which he (allegerdly) bribed himself certain victory in the primaries. He then set out to take the Presidency using his remaining money, plus some Saudi Oil money as he didn't have enogh (again alegedly). This however was not enogh, so his brother Jeb Bush, the govenor of California rigged his states vote to help him out. Finally FOX News entered this unholy Alliance, broadcasting his victory despite the other Networks and election officials saying Al Gore had one. In the face of this the other networks, followed by the Election authoritys, chaged their mind and declared Bush the winner. Al then appealed but lost his appeal. And from there it only went downhill.......




Well I am 100,000,000,000,000,000% that jeb bush was the governor of my state of florida.

As for Fox, Fox was an Al Gore Supporter all the way, they only broadcasted his victory in florida in the...primaries I believe

That runs at about the same level, though, as "Stalin was a good grandfather": True? Maybe, but not too germane to the rest of the things he did, see?

People wanted to know if there were good things about Bush. The fact that anything good about the man has nothing to do with his abilities as a leader says a great deal about him and his performance in office.

I think it's interesting that the two worst Presidents in modern history were both Evangelical Christians.

Who was the other one?

Who was the other one?

Jimmy Carter.

Wow, really? I always thought he was a bit of a pushover to be an Evo.

Well I am 100,000,000,000,000,000% that jeb bush was the governor of my state of florida.

As for Fox, Fox was an Al Gore Supporter all the way, they only broadcasted his victory in florida in the...primaries I believe

Fox news is pretty staunchly republican man. Thats a known fact.

I think the question should be: Should anyone defend bush

no

or maybe how about: Why defend bush
what has he done apart from throw most of the USA economy into his personal genocide againt iraq

dead for the last 1965 years unfortunately

Right, where the Purgatorio is Cicero when one needs him?

I thought the people doing the Genocide bit were Iraqis themselves?

I thought the people doing the Genocide bit were Iraqis themselves?

War against religious fanatics, wholesale genocide, what is the difference?

Well it's religious nuts killing religious nuts of the same religion just a different sect.

Well it's religious nuts killing religious nuts of the same religion just a different sect.

That is a fine simplification; but if you are trying to tell me that U.S. soldiers are as dangerous and fanatical as terrorists, I must disagree. While many non-combatants have been killed in the war, the U.S. never deliberately targeted them, especially not for being "infidels".

I know. I was referring to the Insurgents killing each other. The Coalition certainly haven't been ordered to commit genocide.

I know. I was reffering to the Insurgents killing each other. The Coalition certainly haven't been ordered to commit genocide.

Of course; you said "sect" not "religion". My Mistake.

I wouldn't feel too bad for Obama, he's going to have 8 years to design his own legacy.

Feeling good about this Neo.

I think he will only be a one term president. We haven't had one of them for awhile.

I disagree. By that logic, soldiers that jump on grenades aren't patriots because they enlisted in the military and, as such, are just doing their job.
Soldiers are a particular case because they primarily choose their job with nationalistic motives in mind. I can see a soldier signing up because he wants to do something "for the country". Not so for a firefighter, and even less for a stock market analyst whose office happens to be in the way of a plane commanded by maniacs.

The firefighters that went into the buildings were patriots...they selflessly saved Americans.
And others. There were quite a few people in these towers who held the citizenship of other countries and, amazingly enough, I don't think the firefighters asked them to produce passports. They selflessly (not really, but that's another story) saved people. And for a firefighter, that is the motivation, regardless of any national considerations.

The passengers of United Flight 93 were patriots, they died to save their countrymen. By questioning the incredible valor, bravery, and (yes) patriotism of those that sacrificed themselves on 9/11, is to cast doubt upon the finest qualities of America.
You'll find that I routinely question things that others consider as important as you do these qualities. In fact, the more important something is to another person, the more important that there is someone to question it at times.

But that's not the point. The point is that these people didn't do what they did "for America", but for other reasons - reasons far more worthy of admiration than mere flagwaving patriotism. By brushing these reasons under the carpet and instead misuse them for politics of whatever kind like this you're doing them a disservice.

I, for one, would call a firefighter that knowingly enters a burning building to save lives a patriot. Moreover, many stories have surfaced about unprecedented acts of heroism performed in the moments before the towers fell by those that were still inside the buildings.
sorry, i didnt see your response until the one above me.

youre right, i wasnt thinking of the firefighters.

but they didnt act from patriotism. they acted out of duty and courage. they are HEROS not patriots. i dont understand why you confuse the 2 categories

(not that im saying that they were UNpatriotic or anything just that patriotism doesnt come into it)

and since i see the response above me....

soldiers who jump on grenades are not patriots either. they dont to that for their country they do it for their comrades. they are heros also.

We now have an agreement with Iraq to bring the troops home.

You can blame Bush for that one, lol.

Considering that if he hadn't started an useless, stupid, bloody and genocidal war, there'd be no NEED for the pullout, I guess I agree with you.

I think he will only be a one term president. We haven't had one of them for awhile.

1993 wasn't all that long ago, whippersnapper.

Soldiers are a particular case because they primarily choose their job with nationalistic motives in mind. I can see a soldier signing up because he wants to do something "for the country". Not so for a firefighter, and even less for a stock market analyst whose office happens to be in the way of a plane commanded by maniacs.

I might disagree on the firefighter issue. For me the only time I considered joining up was during the wildfires around here. It was very much a nationalistic, "defend the home" kind of attitude. While its true firefighters save people regardless, they don't save people regardless of nation. For the most part they defend a part of their nation. In times of war they are literally helping defend if the fires are started by combat.

This is probably a minority attitude and of course I didn't actually become a firefighter so it's not all that good an example. Still, on the other hand, plenty of soldiers join up for reasons having little to nothing to do with nationalism. Like out of a desire to kill people without repercussions. Or to 'be all you can be' and get government subsidized student loans and education and such.