NationStates Jolt Archive

...and one thats been under-reported, in my humble opinion. (Thought it probably came up here and I've entirely forgotten ranting about it...However...)
When postgraduate student Rizwaan Sabir was arrested under anti-terror legislation on suspicion of possessing extremist literature, he thought he would be released in a "couple of hours".

After all, his studies were focused on Islamic extremism and the document that had prompted the police reaction - an edited version of the al-Qaeda training manual - is freely available on the internet.

But rather than being held for a matter of hours, Mr Sabir, along with a member of the university's clerical staff, was held for six days before being released without charge on 20 May.

"I couldn't believe it," Mr Sabir, a politics masters student at the University of Nottingham, told Times Higher Education. "In the next six days, the power of the state hit me as hard as it could. It was sheer psychological torture - particularly in the last 24 hours when they were umming and ahhing about whether to charge me."

Mr Sabir said he had downloaded the 1,500-page document from a site he had found via the search engine Google, in preparation for a PhD on radical Islamic groups.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=402188&sectioncode=26

Later it turns out that he got it from the US department of Justice site. Though now released and doing his thesis on Islamic extremism, the guy he forwarded it to seems to have been rightly shafted.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/18/terrorism.civilliberties

So does my poessesion of "Guerrilla days in Ireland" (Tom Barry), "My fight for Irish Freedom" (Dan Breen) and various other works make me a "terrorist" in the eyes of the Brits? Or is it 'Don't worry paddy, we're only after the muslims'......

...and one thats been under-reported, in my humble opinion. (Thought it probably came up here and I've entirely forgotten ranting about it...However...)


http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=402188&sectioncode=26

Later it turns out that he got it from the US department of Justice site. Though now released and doing his thesis on Islamic extremism, the guy he forwarded it to seems to have been rightly shafted.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/18/terrorism.civilliberties

So does my poessesion of "Guerrilla days in Ireland" (Tom Barry), "My fight for Irish Freedom" (Dan Breen) and various other works make me a "terrorist" in the eyes of the Brits? Or is it 'Don't worry paddy, we're only after the muslims'......

Maybe he could start some work on police states afterwards.

Well that's what you get for being a terrorist.

Well that's what you get for being a Muslim.

Fixed.

Fixed.

Oh come now DK, we both know it's one and the same.

Oh come now DK, we both know it's one and the same.

No, because PETA members can be terrorists, too.

There was a thread on this ages ago.

No, because PETA members can be terrorists, too.

sure, if they're muslim.

The fact that you're Irish makes you a terrorist, that you hold such books means we're going to specifically watch you closer now.

The fact that you're Irish makes you a terrorist, that you hold such books means we're going to specifically watch you closer now.

nonsense. Terrorists are all muslims. When have the Irish ever committed acts of terrorism?

sure, if they're muslim.

Nope, don't have to be Muslim at all.

I suspect anyone who has given money to PETA.

Nope, don't have to be Muslim at all.

I suspect anyone who has given money to PETA.

And I, anyone who has given it to the GOP. After all, the Iraq war is a terrorist act.

And I, anyone who has given it to the GOP. After all, the Iraq war is a terrorist act.

Illegal, perhaps. Terrorist, no.

A terrorist is a non-state actor.

Nope, don't have to be Muslim at all.

I suspect anyone who has given money to PETA.

Which seems like a good enough reason for me to do something I haven't yet done, and go donate some money to PETA.

And I, anyone who has given it to the GOP. After all, the Iraq war is a terrorist act.

Nonsense. Don't you understand? flying planes into a building full of innocent people, financed by a rich Saudi is terrorism. Dropping bombs on the homes of innocent people during operation "shock and awe" financed by a giant military budget is the birth pangs of democracy.

Get it straight.

Which seems like a good enough reason for me to do something I haven't yet done, and go donate some money to PETA.

10 bucks says that puts you on a list with the FBI, who see them as contributors to ALF.

nonsense. Terrorists are all muslims. When have the Irish ever committed acts of terrorism?

Like Muslims, the Irish seemed to resent it when we told them what to do, when we told them off for not being as good as us, they're troublesome that way.

You'd almost think they didn't want to be like us.

10 bucks says that puts you on a list with the FBI, who see them as contributors to ALF.

that's how they brought down that terrorist whore Pamela Anderson *nods*

I always knew she was a Muslim.

that's how they brought down that terrorist whore Pamela Anderson *nods*

I always knew she was a Muslim.

No, that was a "weapons of mass cleavage" violation...

10 bucks says that puts you on a list with the FBI, who see them as contributors to ALF.

Oh noes! A list with the FBI!

If I'm not already on a list with the FBI, giving money to PETA ain't gonna make a damn bit of difference.

Like Muslims, the Irish seemed to resent it when we told them what to do, when we told them off for not being as good as us, they're troublesome that way.

You'd almost think they didn't want to be like us.

any acts of alleged "terrorism" committed by the Irish were in fact perpetrated by light skinned muslims trying to besmerch the name of the lovable, guiness drinking, potato eating, definitely NOT trying to blow up Canary Warf, Irish people.

Illegal, perhaps. Terrorist, no.

A terrorist is a non-state actor.

Which is why the so-called "American Revolution" was a terrorist action.

Which is why the so-called "American Revolution" was a terrorist action.

We didn't attack civilians as a matter of policy.

When non-state actors attack civilians as a matter of policy, that's terrorism.

We didn't attack civilians as a matter of policy.

When non-state actors attack civilians as a matter of policy, that's terrorism.

No, you attack civilians as a matter of "their fault for being there, they're brown anyways".

No, you attack civilians as a matter of "their fault for being there, they're brown anyways".

More like - insurgents know it's good to hide with the women and children. Even though the US uses precision weapons, the women and children are going to be casualties as well.

And who made the choice to use them as human shields?

That in itself is a violation of the Geneva Convention. If you're going to hand out speeding tickets at the Indy 500, then hand them out all around.

If we were deliberately targeting civilians as a matter of policy, there wouldn't be anyone left alive in Iraq or Afghanistan at this time.

Debates about what is and isn't terrorism are retarded since nothing will ever get agreed upon since there is no universal definition and you can label just about any use of violence as terrorism if you want to.

Which is why the so-called "American Revolution" was a terrorist action.

Look, enough of this. I know you spew pro muslim (and thus, pro terrorist) propaganda by saying things "the IRA was a terrorist organization comprised of Irish, and killed more British than Al Qaeda ever did" and "prior to 9/11 virtually all acts of terrorism in America were homegrown", but we all know that every evil in the world that his been, is being, and ever will be done, is by the hands of those filthy filthy muslims.

I mean, what's next? What vile acts of defamation will you come up with next? What libelous claims will you spew forth? Maybe some fictitious nonsense like America forced hundreds of thousands of native population off their land and into a death march that left their numbers decimated. Or maybe some lie about how England colonized and conquered, and then brutally repressed, an entire subcontinent of 500 million people for almost a century.

What is next in your list of slander and lies? What pure and noble, unbesmerched by the evil, and by such I mean muslim, taint? What proud people will you villify next? The Spanish? The Italians? The Chinese? What about the Germans?

Oh, I bet you'd LOVE that wouldn't you? I bet you'd love to sink those venom spewing, muslim loving fangs into the peaceful, beer swilling, kraut eating, would NEVER forcibly kidnap and enslave 10 million people then summarily execute them by forcing them into chambers which were then filled with toxic gas, german people.

But you know what? I WON'T LET YOU.

We didn't attack civilians as a matter of policy.

When non-state actors attack civilians as a matter of policy, that's terrorism.

pssst, if the "terrorists" are not state actors, guess what that makes them.

pssst, if the "terrorists" are not state actors, guess what that makes them.

Civilians with IEDs and AK-47s and RPGs.

Civilians

K, thanks.

So what was that comment about "we don't target civilians"?

K, thanks.

So what was that comment about "we don't target civilians"?

Once a civilian picks up a weapon and starts to use it, they're no longer civilians.

They're insurgents, terrorists, etc. See?

Once a civilian picks up a weapon and starts to use it, they're no longer civilians.

Ah, so they're part of the military then?

Ah, so they're part of the military then?

No, there's a category for irregulars forces. See the Geneva Conventions.

No, there's a category for irregulars forces. See the Geneva Conventions.

yeah, you know what's funny about those "irregular" forces? The Third Geneva Convention defines them as civilians. The Geneva Conventions only cover two classes of people. Either prisoners of war, which make up regular military, or specific resistance forces, or non combative civilians.

yeah, you know what's funny about those "irregular" forces? The Third Geneva Convention defines them as civilians.

It's still legal to shoot them. Are you saying it's not legal to shoot irregular forces?

It's still legal to shoot them. Are you saying it's not legal to shoot irregular forces?

So you're saying we DO intentionally shoot civilians then?

Funny how you just said we didn't.

So you're saying we DO intentionally shoot civilians then?

Funny how you just said we didn't.

No, you're just being obsequious.

We don't target civilians as a rule - most civilians are not that special class of civilians, called irregular forces (who can be shot).

So you're barking up the wrong tree. When I say "civilians" I'm excluding irregular forces and their human shields.

So you're saying we DO intentionally shoot civilians then?

Funny how you just said we didn't.

Do you consider blowing up a terrorist camp full of dangerous terrorists currently terrorising their area, terrorism?

When I say "civilians" I'm excluding irregular forces and their human shields.

Must be nice, to be in charge of language like that, and get to make words mean whatever you want them to mean.

The rest of us poor plebs have to make do with words actually having set meanings, and to ensure that when we use a word, we use it correctly.

No, you're just being obsequious.

We don't target civilians as a rule - most civilians are not that special class of civilians, called irregular forces (who can be shot).

So you're barking up the wrong tree. When I say "civilians" I'm excluding irregular forces and their human shields.

I believe that the correct distinction you are looking for is between combatants and non-combatants rather than civilian and military. I doubt many people would consider it morally wrong for armed forces to kill a civilian who is also a combatant.

I believe that the correct distinction you are looking for is between combatants and non-combatants rather than civilian and military. I doubt many people would consider it morally wrong for armed forces to kill a civilian who is also a combatant.

Neo Art probably does.

Do you consider blowing up a terrorist camp full of dangerous terrorists currently terrorising their area, terrorism?

depends, which one is the muslim?

Why is Neo Art Trying to be a bad Hammeraub impersonator?:confused:

Well, not that I'm not utterly fascinated with 'Hotwife' and his ability to consistently troll so well, but to get back on topic...

...has anyone here ever been held without charge by the police for six days?

Well, not that I'm not utterly fascinated with 'Hotwife' and his ability to consistently troll so well, but to get back on topic...

...has anyone here ever been held without charge by the police for six days?

I'm not the one posting the "muslim" thing that Neo Art is pushing so hard. Nothing I've posted in this thread is trolling.

I spent a night in jail. Unfortunately, said school happens to be located in West Philadelphia. Needless to say, it was not a pleasant experience.

I spent a night in jail. Unfortunately, said school happens to be located in West Philadelphia. Needless to say, it was not a pleasant experience.

I've never spent any time in jail, but to me the idea of spending time in jail because of schoolwork (and because of my ethnicity and/or religion and/or country of origin) is indeed appalling as hell.

And I suspect it is to most reasonable people as well.

any acts of alleged "terrorism" committed by the Irish were in fact perpetrated by light skinned muslims trying to besmerch the name of the lovable, guiness drinking, potato eating, definitely NOT trying to blow up Canary Warf, Irish people.

Canary where? Why we even shrink from fireworks....


...has anyone here ever been held without charge by the police for six days?
.

Nope. There was a time when, if you did something vaguely suspicous, the cops would investigate you and then, if they found you were up to something arrest you. Now of course, they arrest, investigate, and try to justify in hindsight by implication without the process of a trial (see the deportation attempt of the second guy). Course thats speaking as a "whitey"...it may always have been different for the brown muslim devils, who are far worse than the white (but hairy arsed and distended bellied)Irish.

Course thats speaking as a "whitey"...it may always have been different for the brown muslim devils, who are far worse than the white (but hairy arsed and distended bellied)Irish.

I didn't know you had a butt tuft...

Thing is, what the IRA wanted was somewhat understandable (Northern Ireland to become part of the ROI and a withdrawal of British forces from NI). I don't agree with it and I despise what they did but the argument makes some sense.

Muslim Extremists seem to just want to destroy us. And if that isn't their aim, they are doing one shitty job of convincing us otherwise.

Thing is, what the IRA wanted was somewhat understandable (Northern Ireland to become part of the ROI and a withdrawal of British forces from NI). I don't agree with it and I despise what they did but the argument makes some sense.

Muslim Extremists seem to just want to destroy us. And if that isn't their aim, they are doing one shitty job of convincing us otherwise.

actually, the stated goals of Al Qaeda is much like hte stated goals of the IRA. End American involvement in the middle east.

Really? I thought it was to create some epic Islamic empire and such to destroy the infidels.

Oh well.

Really? I thought it was to create some epic Islamic empire and such to destroy the infidels.

Oh well.

It always, of course, depends on who you talk to. While htere is a certain amount of that element, a fair deal of terrorist recruiting is done among people who want to put an end to perceived western involvement in their way of life.

It always, of course, depends on who you talk to. While htere is a certain amount of that element, a fair deal of terrorist recruiting is done among people who want to put an end to perceived western involvement in their way of life.

Which proves, once again, that the Iraq war was a mistake, as it generated more terrorism. Just like I got called anti-American for saying. QED, in your faces, all of those that called me Anti-American...

actually, the stated goals of Al Qaeda is much like hte stated goals of the IRA. End American involvement in the middle east.

More then that though, the goals are the complete removal of any foreign influence whatsoever.

From wiki:

"Al-Qaeda's objectives include the end of foreign influence in Muslim countries and the creation of a new Islamic caliphate. Reported beliefs include that a Christian-Jewish alliance is conspiring to destroy Islam,[6] and that the killing of bystanders and civilians is Islamically justified in jihad.[7]"

From infoplease:

"According to bin Laden's 1998 fatwa (religious decree), it is the duty of Muslims around the world to wage holy war on the U.S., American citizens, and Jews. Muslims who do not heed this call are declared apostates (people who have forsaken their faith). "

....all of which, presumably, the guy locked up for writing a thesis on extremism (and the other one for assisting writing of same by having a document mailed to him) duly noted....

We didn't attack civilians as a matter of policy.


Clearly someone didn't pay attention in History class.


When non-state actors attack civilians as a matter of policy, that's terrorism.

Clearly, someone still isn't paying attention.

nonsense. Terrorists are all muslims. When have the Irish ever committed acts of terrorism?

There are some Irish muslims. Very rare though, and the big red beards make them very noticable.

There are some Irish muslims. Very rare though, and the big red beards make them very noticable.

That and how easy it is to spot a "MacAllah" in a registry...

...and one thats been under-reported, in my humble opinion. (Thought it probably came up here and I've entirely forgotten ranting about it...However...)


http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=402188&sectioncode=26

Later it turns out that he got it from the US department of Justice site. Though now released and doing his thesis on Islamic extremism, the guy he forwarded it to seems to have been rightly shafted.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/18/terrorism.civilliberties

So does my poessesion of "Guerrilla days in Ireland" (Tom Barry), "My fight for Irish Freedom" (Dan Breen) and various other works make me a "terrorist" in the eyes of the Brits? Or is it 'Don't worry paddy, we're only after the muslims'......

Probably about as much as my possession of the Anarchist's Cookbook. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_Cookbook

Yeah, Fuckin Pigs.....

Everyone knows cops are scum...

Yeah, Fuckin Pigs.....

Everyone knows cops are scum...

But they're fantastic in bed. *nod*

But they're fantastic in bed. *nod*

It wouldn't be The Village People without the cop...

Yeah, Fuckin Pigs.....

Everyone knows cops are scum...

Dear Jesus man, don't waste insight like that on us here. Save your posts for a book of your collected thoughts.

If we were deliberately targeting civilians as a matter of policy, there wouldn't be anyone left alive in Iraq or Afghanistan at this time.

You know what the disturbing part of that statement is? There are more than a few individuals among the American constituency who probably consider that to be a great idea.

More then that though, the goals are the complete removal of any foreign influence whatsoever.

From wiki:

"Al-Qaeda's objectives include the end of foreign influence in Muslim countries and the creation of a new Islamic caliphate. Reported beliefs include that a Christian-Jewish alliance is conspiring to destroy Islam,[6] and that the killing of bystanders and civilians is Islamically justified in jihad.[7]"

From infoplease:

"According to bin Laden's 1998 fatwa (religious decree), it is the duty of Muslims around the world to wage holy war on the U.S., American citizens, and Jews. Muslims who do not heed this call are declared apostates (people who have forsaken their faith). "

So how about UK citizens? Are we fair game for Al-Qaeda?

As far as I know, Al-Qaeda considers everyone who doesn't follow their specific definition of what they consider the only true form of the Islam to be their mortal enemy. So yes, you are fair game for those fanatics, together with a few billion other people. That also includes the overwhelming majority of the islamic world, by the way.

Dont feel too bad brits, this happens in the states too.

in conclusion : vote ron paul...OH WAIT WE CANT

in conclusion : vote ron paul...OH WAIT WE CANT


Yeah, Ron Paul would just take the power from the Feds and give it to the state governments.