NationStates Jolt Archive

I said on a different thread that I generally did not find black people attractive. I was told I was a racist for thinking that, so NSG, do you think I am racist for having that preference? And if so, why?

(and a note, try to stay as on topic to my question as possible please)

seems like it to me.

Doesn't seem like it to me. For example, I might not find women so thin that their ribs stick out attractive... Doesn't mean I treat them any differently in any non-dating capacity.

seems like it to me.

How so? It may be generally because of their race but, Its not particularly racist.

Doesn't seem like it to me. For example, I might not find women so thin that their ribs stick out attractive... Doesn't mean I treat them any differently in any non-dating capacity.

Precisely.

And whether I find them attractive or not doesn't change anything but I am only interested in the one I love (My girlfriend :wub: )
So If it makes no difference at all then what's the problem? some people seem to want to have me hanged for thought crimes...

How so? It may be generally because of their race but, Its not particularly racist.
because there are too many black people of too many different types to find them not attractive.

I don't find it much different from having preferences for hair color or style, eye color, or whatever else.
So, no, I don't think that that particular statement of yours is racist.

How so? It may be generally because of their race but, Its not particularly racist.

If it wasn't racist, you would allow for the possibility of black women who are attractive. Since you do not, it's racist, since you're pre-judging people based on nothing but race.

You're a racist. Next question?

because there are too many black people of too many different types to find them not attractive.

Well from all the black people I have seen in my life I have not found one of them attractive.
That and I find darker skinned people unattractive in general, I just think it looks horrible. (That's not racist, cause If nots racist for people to say that they are only interest in darker/tanned people then its not racist for me to say that)

If you're racist for only that, then I'm sexist for not being Bi.

I don't find it much different from having preferences for hair color or style, eye color, or whatever else.
So, no, I don't think that that particular statement of yours is racist.

That's how I see it.

If you're racist for only that, then I'm sexist for not being Bi.

Lol, nice one ^^

I said on a different thread that I generally did not find black people attractive. I was told I was a racist for thinking that, so NSG, do you think I am racist for having that preference? And if so, why?

(and a note, try to stay as on topic to my question as possible please)

Yep. It assumes that certain attractive or unattractive traits are common to race.

If it wasn't racist, you would allow for the possibility of black women who are attractive. Since you do not, it's racist, since you're pre-judging people based on nothing but race.

You're a racist. Next question?

I'm basing them on the appearance of that race, which through all of my experience through life I have found to be true to myself; and I find certain characteristics of that race unattractive.
They say Malcolm X like white girls because he hated the look of black women's boobs, are you going to say he's racist to black people for that?

If you're racist for only that, then I'm sexist for not being Bi.

Right, because sexual preference is the same as 'racial preference.'

Oh wait it isn't, and that was a lame attempt at justifying a racist position.

In and of itself, the statement is not racist.

Some people are massively turned off by some things. Its quite possible that dark skin could be one of those things. Its not racist, its just preference. A friend of mine has an 'anti-fetish' (whatever you want to call it) in regards to short hair.
He doesn't hate women with short hair. He doesn't treat them poorly. He simply does not find them attractive.

So, while the poster may be racist, I haven't bothered going through his post history, the STATEMENT 'I don't find black people attractive' is not racist.

Yep. It assumes that certain attractive or unattractive traits are common to race.

When was the last time you saw a dark-skinned hottie with dazzling blue eyes and long, flowing, blond hair?

Yep. It assumes that certain attractive or unattractive traits are common to race.

But the race in question does have traits that I find unattractive. so Its not assuming anything, so by using what you said I'm not racist?

They say Malcolm X like white girls because he hated the look of black women's boobs, are you going to say he's racist to black people for that?

Possibly. Racism undoubtedly affects the sexual tastes of both white and black people.

I'm basing them on the appearance of that race, which through all of my experience through life I have found to be true to myself; and I find certain characteristics of that race unattractive.

Right. Sort of like how Hitler found certain characteristics of the Jews unattractive. Only difference is, you haven't gone and murdered anyone.


They say Malcolm X like white girls because he hated the look of black women's boobs, are you going to say he's racist to black people for that?

"They say" that, do they?

Malcom X is irrelevant. Whether he's racist, whether I say he's racist, is irrelevant to your own racism.

When was the last time you saw a dark-skinned hottie with dazzling blue eyes and long, flowing, blond hair?

The last time some one fell asleep in their tanning bed :) but then again I wouldn't find them to be much of a hottie when they have skin burnt dark...

Right. Sort of like how Hitler found certain characteristics of the Jews unattractive. Only difference is, you haven't gone and murdered anyone.



"They say" that, do they?

Malcom X is irrelevant. Whether he's racist, whether I say he's racist, is irrelevant to your own racism.

Erm so I'm basically Hitler because I don't like the appearance of black people?! :eek::confused:
And Hitler disliked the jews mainly on a political and cultural basis, not race.

I am comparing him to me, so that makes it somewhat relevant in the context.

Possibly. Racism undoubtedly affects the sexual tastes of both white and black people.

Well I am using the comparison because Malcolm X was black and I am white, to see how peoples opinion differ (hypocrisy)

Well from all the black people I have seen in my life I have not found one of them attractive.
That and I find darker skinned people unattractive in general,I just think it looks horrible. (That's not racist, cause If nots racist for people to say that they are only interest in darker/tanned people then its not racist for me to say that)

It's not racist to say you are attracted to fair skinned women.

Dark skinned women are not a requirement for me. Yet I can look at a black woman and say she is pretty. She is stunning, etc.

You single out the color and their skin and declare it horrible?

You are a racist.

In and of itself, the statement is not racist.

Some people are massively turned off by some things. Its quite possible that dark skin could be one of those things. Its not racist, its just preference. A friend of mine has an 'anti-fetish' (whatever you want to call it) in regards to short hair.
He doesn't hate women with short hair. He doesn't treat them poorly. He simply does not find them attractive.

So, while the poster may be racist, I haven't bothered going through his post history, the STATEMENT 'I don't find black people attractive' is not racist.

Thanks, Well I don't view myself as having racist views, and I don't think I do, Its just people called me racist for saying that...

Well, that's kinda my point. I've seen some black girls try to pull off dying their hair to colors normally associated with the white race, and it just doesn't work. For me.
Some people's definition of racism is so broad that there's no logical way they can think there's anything wrong with racism.

Erm so I'm basically Hitler

No, you're just racist.

because I don't like the appearance of black people?! :eek::confused:
And Hitler disliked the jews mainly on a political and cultural basis, not race.

Who cares why you or anyone else is racist? Who cares what flimsy-ass basis you justify it with? What difference does it make, the flavor of your irrational hatreds?

I am comparing him to me, so that makes it somewhat relevant in the context.

You were attempting a sort of "tu quoque" argument. "Well... I might be racist, but SO IS MALCOM X!" Like I said, irrelevant.

I said on a different thread that I generally did not find black people attractive. I was told I was a racist for thinking that, so NSG, do you think I am racist for having that preference? And if so, why?

(and a note, try to stay as on topic to my question as possible please)

Absolutely not. It's just that today's politically correct 'multicultural' society sees the mere mention of race in a not exclusively positive context to be racist.

I don't find black people attractive either. Or East Asians. Or Malayo-Polynesians. It's just the way I am.

It's not racist to say you are attracted to fair skinned women.

Dark skinned women are not a requirement for me. Yet I can look at a black woman and say she is pretty. She is stunning, etc.

You single out the color and their skin and declare it horrible?

You are a racist.

I declare that it looks horribly, not that it IS horrible. I'm basing it on appearance not attributes.

Absolutely not. It's just that today's politically correct 'multicultural' society sees the mere mention of race in a not exclusively positive context to be racist.

I don't find black people attractive either. Or East Asians. Or Maylayo-Polynesians. It's just the way I am.

Well anything slightly negative about a different race to white these days is racist apparently :(

Well, that's kinda my point. I've seen some black girls try to pull off dying their hair to colors normally associated with the white race, and it just doesn't work. For me.
Some people's definition of racism is so broad that there's no logical way they can think there's anything wrong with racism.

Yep, well if its racist then so what, it doesn't really change anything. Unless of course people believe that I must find black people attractive (which by using their logic is racist)

No, you're just racist.



Who cares why you or anyone else is racist? Who cares what flimsy-ass basis you justify it with? What difference does it make, the flavor of your irrational hatreds?



You were attempting a sort of "tu quoque" argument. "Well... I might be racist, but SO IS MALCOM X!" Like I said, irrelevant.

Well you compared me to Hitler, which is harsh and unjustified.

My point was, do you find Malcolm X racist for that? and everyone knows Malcolm X was massively racist against white people anyway.

I declare that it looks horribly, not that it IS horrible. I'm basing it on appearance not attributes.

You think it looks horrible but it's not horrible?

:rolleyes:

You think it looks horrible but it's not horrible?

:rolleyes:

you misunderstood me, I mean I find it horrible in the sense of attractiveness, not in the sense of anything else.

But the race in question does have traits that I find unattractive. so Its not assuming anything, so by using what you said I'm not racist?

Oh, you definitely are for assuming an entire race has an unattractive trait in common.

Oh, you definitely are for assuming an entire race has an unattractive trait in common.

I'm not assuming, I know. It is a fact because we are on about my opinion, and in my opinion one of their traits is unattractive.

Why would attraction necessarily be racist? It's no more racist, I think, than the fact that I'm attracted to men is sexist.

Oh, you definitely are for assuming an entire race has an unattractive trait in common.
I don't think that finding a specific race of people unattractive is racist.

The OP is definitely a racist white-supremacist (see the "white race will be a minority in 2042" thread), but this isn't the reason why.

When was the last time you saw a dark-skinned hottie with dazzling blue eyes and long, flowing, blond hair?

Jeez, you can do that with contact lenses and a wig.

When was the last time you found someone that laughed whenever you laughed?

Well you compared me to Hitler, which is harsh and unjustified.


No worse than you comparing yourself to Malcom X. Only that one was insulting to Malcom X, not you.

My point was, do you find Malcolm X racist for that?

You're asking if I find Malcom X racist because of your vague and unsupported claims about what he said?

Funny. I thought you were asking if what YOU said was racist. You know, cuz that was the topic of the thread.

and everyone knows Malcolm X was massively racist against white people anyway.

"Everyone knows" is almost a good a source as "they say."

Again, your lame defense of "but Malcom X was racist, and he's black!" doesn't even address whether your statements were racist.

Wake up and smell the fail. The fail that is your trolling.

Why would attraction necessarily be racist? It's no more racist, I think, than the fact that I'm attracted to men is sexist.

Another great point.

I'm not assuming, I know. It is a fact because we are on about my opinion, and in my opinion one of their traits is unattractive.

That's racist.

I don't think that finding a specific race of people unattractive is racist.

The OP is definitely a racist white-supremacist (see the "white race will be a minority in 2042" thread), but this isn't the reason why.

Oh FFS! I do not believe in White Supremacy, so if I do not believe in that then how the FUCK am I a white supremacist! That's like trying to say I have silver hair when I don't!

Why would attraction necessarily be racist? It's no more racist, I think, than the fact that I'm attracted to men is sexist.

It's one thing to not be attracted by black skin and another to find it horrible. As LG pointed out dismissing a group of people because of a trait......

Yep, well if its racist then so what

You tell me. You started the thread asking "is this racist?"

You didn't start out with "Does my racism have great cosmic significance?" Again you try to shift the goal posts.

It's like you can't choose between being a straight-up racist, and being a cowardly dishonest PC-closet-case racist, so you can't choose between defending your alleged non-racism, and defending actual racism.

Unless of course people believe that I must find black people attractive (which by using their logic is racist)

I really don't think you have a grasp of logic at all, judging by the fallacious commentary you've been spewing.

Right, because sexual preference is the same as 'racial preference.'

Oh wait it isn't, and that was a lame attempt at justifying a racist position.

I don't find people over the age of 55 or under the age of 15 attractive either. AGEISM!
I also don't find midgets attractive.
I also don't find Picasso's art very appealing.
Man, I'm an intolerant bastard.

Well I am using the comparison because Malcolm X was black and I am white, to see how peoples opinion differ (hypocrisy)

And my point is that your comparison proves nothing of worth. So black people are affected by a culture of white supremacy, too. That's not exactly a surprise.

and everyone knows Malcolm X was massively racist against white people anyway.

You can't "know" something that isn't really true. More to the point, there are different kinds of racism: people accuse Malcolm X of ideological racism against white people, but sexual taste (usually) operates on a much deeper level.

No worse than you comparing yourself to Malcom X. Only that one was insulting to Malcom X, not you.



You're asking if I find Malcom X racist because of your vague and unsupported claims about what he said?

Funny. I thought you were asking if what YOU said was racist. You know, cuz that was the topic of the thread.



"Everyone knows" is almost a good a source as "they say."

Again, your lame defense of "but Malcom X was racist, and he's black!" doesn't even address whether your statements were racist.

Wake up and smell the fail. The fail that is your trolling.

What are you on about? just because it wasn't in the OP doesn't mean you can't answer it, since when was that forum rules :rolleyes:
I'm asking you whether you think he's racist because he's black and he said that about black people, and I wanted to see if you treated it the same as if I, a white person said it.

It wasn't fail or trolling, it was a honest question and comparison, and just because its about race that's not trolling.

And my point is that your comparison proves nothing of worth. So black people are affected by a culture of white supremacy, too. That's not exactly a surprise.



You can't "know" something that isn't really true. More to the point, there are different kinds of racism: people accuse Malcolm X of ideological racism against white people, but sexual taste (usually) operates on a much deeper level.

Look at Malcolm X's actions and speeches.

You tell me. You started the thread asking "is this racist?"

You didn't start out with "Does my racism have great cosmic significance?" Again you try to shift the goal posts.

It's like you can't choose between being a straight-up racist, and being a cowardly dishonest PC-closet-case racist, so you can't choose between defending your alleged non-racism, and defending actual racism.



I really don't think you have a grasp of logic at all, judging by the fallacious commentary you've been spewing.

:| No need to be so hostile or aggressive.

I don't find people over the age of 55 or under the age of 15 attractive either. AGEISM!

Age=/=race


I also don't find midgets attractive.

Dwarfism=/=race

I also don't find Picasso's art very appealing.

Art=/=race

Man, I'm an intolerant bastard.

Well, one out of four isn't too bad! Keep repeating the same bullshit arguments and maybe I'll get tired of stuffing them down your throat and you can pretend you won!

you misunderstood me, I mean I find it horrible in the sense of attractiveness, not in the sense of anything else.

You dismiss a person because of the color of their skin.

Looks fail in time so the color of their skin is not important.

A person who has it as a requirement; tends to be racist.....

Age=/=race



Dwarfism=/=race



Art=/=race



Well, one out of four isn't too bad! Keep repeating the same bullshit arguments and maybe I'll get tired of stuffing them down your throat and you can pretend you won!

He's comparing them, and in the situation he pointed out I each case its the same as finding black people attractive.

You dismiss a person because of the color of their skin.

Looks fail in time so the color of their skin is not important.

A person who has it as a requirement; tends to be racist.....

I don't dismiss them because of the colour of their skin, relationship wise I dismiss them because I am not interest in anyone but my girlfriend.
And who says I can't like some one because of their skin colour? I have had many friends of different skin colour to my self, my girlfriend is less pale then I am.

I said on a different thread that I generally did not find black people attractive. I was told I was a racist for thinking that, so NSG, do you think I am racist for having that preference? And if so, why?

(and a note, try to stay as on topic to my question as possible please)

Depends.

If it's a matter of physical traits, then it's akin to other physical trait preferences. In that sense, generally being more attracted to light-skinned people would be along the same lines as generally being attracted to women with larger breasts or to men with blue eyes.

If, on the other hand, you are generally not attracted to people of a certain ethnicity because of a bias you already hold towards them, it would be racist. If you hold a bias against black people, and thus don't find black people attractive for that reason, it would be racist.

Clomata, would you say there is anything wrong with not finding dwarves attractive?

Clamata, would you say there is anything wrong with not finding blacks attractive?

Depends.

If it's a matter of physical traits, then it's akin to other physical trait preferences. In that sense, generally being more attracted to light-skinned people would be along the same lines as generally being attracted to women with larger breasts or to men with blue eyes.

If, on the other hand, you are generally not attracted to people of a certain ethnicity because of a bias you already hold towards them, it would be racist. If you hold a bias against black people, and thus don't find black people attractive for that reason, it would be racist.

It is because of a physical trait, not because I am this "white supremacist" so many people are trying to say I am.

He's comparing them, and in the situation he pointed out I each case its the same as finding black people attractive.

Because race is fundamentally different from preferring a particular artist's paintings, each 'comparison' was flawed.


I'm asking you whether you think he's racist because he's black and he said that about black people, and I wanted to see if you treated it the same as if I, a white person said it.

Because you're trying to set up a "You're all hypocrites" defense.

But, even if I was, and even if Malcom X said what you claim he did, and even if I thought he was an angel and you a devil, it wouldn't change the veracity of my argument.

It wasn't fail or trolling

Yeah, it really was both. Sorry dude.

, it was a honest question and comparison, and just because its about race that's not trolling.

Either you're making irrational arguments because you're inept, or because you're trolling.

Clomata, would you say there is anything wrong with not finding dwarves attractive?

Clamata, would you say there is anything wrong with not finding blacks attractive?

Don't try to hard to speak sense to Clamata, whoever it is, is determined to be bitchy and hostile, despite making an ass of themselves.

If it wasn't racist, you would allow for the possibility of black women who are attractive. Since you do not, it's racist, since you're pre-judging people based on nothing but race.

You're a racist. Next question?

Absolute rubbish. I KNOW that there are attractive black people, just as there are attractive fat people and attractive children. I just do not have any sexual desires towards any of these categories.
:D

Clomata, would you say there is anything wrong with not finding dwarves attractive?

I would say there's something wrong with you repeating a failed argument based on a flawed comparison whose legitimacy I've already completely trashed.

Clamata, would you say there is anything wrong with not finding blacks attractive?

Oh, you're such a genius, I'll let you draw your own conclusion on whether I find something wrong with racism.

I'm basing them on the appearance of that race, which through all of my experience through life I have found to be true to myself; and I find certain characteristics of that race unattractive.
They say Malcolm X like white girls because he hated the look of black women's boobs, are you going to say he's racist to black people for that?

Malcolm X was incredibly racist. This is news?

Well from all the black people I have seen in my life I have not found one of them attractive.
That and I find darker skinned people unattractive in general, I just think it looks horrible. (That's not racist, cause If nots racist for people to say that they are only interest in darker/tanned people then its not racist for me to say that)
no really. not all black people are dark skinned.

youre racist.

Because race is fundamentally different from preferring a particular artist's paintings, each 'comparison' was flawed.



Because you're trying to set up a "You're all hypocrites" defense.

But, even if I was, and even if Malcom X said what you claim he did, and even if I thought he was an angel and you a devil, it wouldn't change the veracity of my argument.



Yeah, it really was both. Sorry dude.



Either you're making irrational arguments because you're inept, or because you're trolling.

Your more of a troll than I am being, the posters comparison where perfectly right in the context.

And you keep on trying to use cheap insults to debase me, which do little more than make me take you as something of a troll.

So either keep it clean or go away.

no really. not all black people are dark skinned.

youre racist.

Dark skinned by my definition, as in rather well tanned people I would class as dark skinned, but not black. So care to point out a black person who is pale? (Not counting Albinos)

Malcolm X was incredibly racist. This is news?

Old news.

I would say there's something wrong with you repeating a failed argument based on a flawed comparison whose legitimacy I've already completely trashed.



Oh, you're such a genius, I'll let you draw your own conclusion on whether I find something wrong with racism.

No, your point was thrashed. and there is nothing wrong with the possible racism in the context since it is simply about attractiveness.

Absolute rubbish. I KNOW that there are attractive black people, just as there are attractive fat people and attractive children. I just do not have any sexual desires towards any of these categories.
:D

Don't mind Clomata, cause if you ask me the poster is rather trollish. and determined to try and prove and point that it obviously wrong.

Wow this thread has a lot of people watching it, but not a lot posting, but I guess there's not much need since I've gotten what I need from the thread

I'm not sure I get where this is going, but, if everyone is trying to say that a person is racist just because they're not, in general, attracted to people of another race, then you're being really overly PC. People are attracted to types. I, personally, prefer very masculine appearing men with blue eyes and dark brown or black hair and pale complexions. Most black men don't fit this type, so I'm not attracted to most black men (notable exception Keith Hamilton Cobb (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002002/mediaindex) (I also find Will Smith attractive, but this has less to do with looks than his general attitude) neither am I attracted to most Asian men. Does this make me a racist? I really don't think so.

No, your point was thrashed.

Ignoring what I say and high-fiving each other does not constitute "thrashing."

and there is nothing wrong with the possible racism in the context since it is simply about attractiveness.

Oh, well maybe you can make a new thread about "Is there anything wrong with me being racist?"

In the meantime, since you've refrained from argument entirely and have resorted to idiotic high-fiving each other and mis-spelling my account name

--seriously, are you illiterate? Because, "Clomata" is not hard to spell when ITS RIGHT THERE. I have to ask because if you were illiterate it might explain why you've apparently not been reading a single thing anyone writes.

When was the last time you saw a dark-skinned hottie with dazzling blue eyes and long, flowing, blond hair?
youve never seen a black person with blonde hair and blue eyes?

you have to get out more

Wow this thread has a lot of people watching it, but not a lot posting, but I guess there's not much need since I've gotten what I need from the thread

Yeah you got your negative attention. You're welcome, troll.

Not feeling attracted to people of a certain race is not racist, though its curious that given the great diversity within a race that you can be sure that you won't find any members of that race attractive. If there's no deeper hatred of the race at play, then it seems ok. Stating that all people of a certain race are objectively ugly WOULD be racist. Thats the key distinction to be made IMO here.

But the race in question does have traits that I find unattractive. so Its not assuming anything, so by using what you said I'm not racist?

I think the point LG is trying to make is that you assume an unattractive trait to be common to all people of one race, when in fact there are no, zero traits common to every person of a race. You chose to say "I find black people unnatractive" rather than "I find dark skin unattractive"--you singled out not the trait you found unattractive, but a racial group. All black people do not have dark skin. All people with dark skin are not black.

Well anything slightly negative about a different race to white these days is racist apparently :(

Your habit of trying to appear reasonable, waiting for someone to agree with your racist ideology, and then whining to them about how unfair the world is to white people is irritating and not likely to make anyone take you seriously.

Dark skinned by my definition, as in rather well tanned people I would class as dark skinned, but not black. So care to point out a black person who is pale? (Not counting Albinos)
lisa bonet.

youve never seen a black person with blonde hair and blue eyes?

you have to get out more

No kidding. My ex's cousin is a black woman with blond hair and green eyes.

I'm not sure I get where this is going, but, if everyone is trying to say that a person is racist just because they're not, in general, attracted to people of another race, then you're being really overly PC. People are attracted to types. I, personally, prefer very masculine appearing men with blue eyes and dark brown or black hair. Most black men don't fit this type, so I'm not attracted to most black men (notable exception Keith Hamilton Cobb (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002002/mediaindex) neither am I attracted to most Asian men. Does this make me a racist? I really don't think so.
no but if there are NO black men and NO asian men that you find attractive.... there is something wrong with you.

Blonde hair, I am on about real blonde hair, not blonde by hair dye or something.

And as for blue eyes, the only cases of black people with blue eyes are extremely rare.

Look at Malcolm X's actions and speeches.

First, I have.

Second, you really should make an argument that's actually connected to the topic at hand.

I think the point LG is trying to make is that you assume an unattractive trait to be common to all people of one race, when in fact there are no, zero traits common to every person of a race. You chose to say "I find black people unnatractive" rather than "I find dark skin unattractive"--you singled out not the trait you found unattractive, but a racial group. All black people do not have dark skin. All people with dark skin are not black.


yeah. for example i find extreme tanning on a naturally light skinned blonde woman to be creepy. but the same skin color on other types is very attractive.

no but if there are NO black men and NO asian men that you find attractive.... there is something wrong with you.

Or maybe, he like me is only attracted to the person he loves. As in he has only eyes for the one he loves, no one else.

Dark skinned by my definition, as in rather well tanned people I would class as dark skinned, but not black. So care to point out a black person who is pale? (Not counting Albinos)

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2008/michael-jackson-neverland.jpg

First, I have.

Second, you really should make an argument that's actually connected to the topic at hand.

We've moved on from it.

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2008/michael-jackson-neverland.jpg

I would hardly count Michael Jackson for that.

Or maybe, he like me is only attracted to the person he loves. As in he has only eyes for the one he loves, no one else.

Then you don't find black people unattractive, you find everyone except one person unattractive, and this thread is pointless.

That, or you're squirming on the hook because you've run out of arguments. Hmm.

lisa bonet.

Erm, who?

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2008/michael-jackson-neverland.jpg

You scared me.

Hachihyaku, I thought Clomata might just be using a different definition of racism that is more broad, and might be misconstruing the argument. I was trying to find out if that were true.

Instead, he/she completely ignored perfectly logical arguments, screaming "doesn't apply! doesn't apply!" and won't answer two simple questions, so I'll defer to your opinion of them as "bitchy and hostile". Also, I will assume they find nothing wrong with racism, ageism, or dwarfism...ism.

Ashmoria, I said hottie. Like I said earlier, I've seen blond black girls, but I don't think they really pull it off. Have any links?

Then you don't find black people unattractive, you find everyone except one person unattractive, and this thread is pointless.

That, or you're squirming on the hook because you've run out of arguments. Hmm.

Well I found black people unattractive prior to loving my girlfriend, and other people not. But at the moment I don't "have eyes" for anyone else.

Squirming on the hook? Well if there's no argument then there's no point to the thread I just wanted to debate my original questions.

Or maybe, he like me is only attracted to the person he loves. As in he has only eyes for the one he loves, no one else.
oh pfffft that is a silly claim to make at this point.

Erm, who?
hey its not my fault that you dont know prominent people. im starting to think that the reason that you find black people generally unattractive is that you, too, need to get out more.

Hachihyaku, I thought Clomata might just be using a different definition of racism that is more broad, and might be misconstruing the argument. I was trying to find out if that were true.

Instead, he/she completely ignored perfectly logical arguments, screaming "doesn't apply! doesn't apply!" and won't answer two simple questions, so I'll defer to your opinion of them as "bitchy and hostile". Also, I will assume they find nothing wrong with racism, ageism, or dwarfism...ism.

Ashmoria, I said hottie. Like I said earlier, I've seen blond black girls, but I don't think they really pull it off. Have any links?

Well Clomata just seems to be out to have a go at some one.

And as for blue eyes, the only cases of black people with blue eyes are extremely rare.

Gary Dourdan (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm867736064/nm0235427)

oh pfffft that is a silly claim to make at this point.

^^ well yeah know, I have my answer to my question.

Hachihyaku, I thought Clomata might just be using a different definition of racism that is more broad, and might be misconstruing the argument. I was trying to find out if that were true.

Instead, he/she completely ignored perfectly logical arguments, screaming "doesn't apply! doesn't apply!" and won't answer two simple questions, so I'll defer to your opinion of them as "bitchy and hostile". Also, I will assume they find nothing wrong with racism, ageism, or dwarfism...ism.

Ashmoria, I said hottie. Like I said earlier, I've seen blond black girls, but I don't think they really pull it off. Have any links?
of course i dont have any links. i dont keep links of pictures of hot women.

hey its not my fault that you dont know prominent people. im starting to think that the reason that you find black people generally unattractive is that you, too, need to get out more.

I get out so much that, I don't sit at home watching TV which where i most likely would see these prominent people. You see my friends don't tend to be famous, and I hang out with them when I go out.

i don't think it's racist. i mean as long as you still are civil and friendly and not hating on people. i don't mean this in a racist or pro-stereotypical way, but certain races of people tend to have common features such as skin color--and often bone structure or facial features. some people do not find certain features common to certain races attractive. and while a preference that discourages a certain skin color seems racist, it isn't. it's a bit shallow, but i wouldn't go so far to say that it's racist; it's the same as saying a person doesn't find blondes attractive

of course i dont have any links. i dont keep links of pictures of hot women.

Just magazines and videos?

Gary Dourdan (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm867736064/nm0235427)

First black person I've seen with blue eyes, but then again I said it was rare, not impossible.

i don't think it's racist. i mean as long as you still are civil and friendly and not hating on people. i don't mean this in a racist or pro-stereotypical way, but certain races of people tend to have common features such as skin color--and often bone structure or facial features. some people do not find certain features common to certain races attractive. and while a preference that discourages a certain skin color seems racist, it isn't. it's a bit shallow, but i wouldn't go so far to say that it's racist; it's the same as saying a person doesn't find blondes attractive

I don't hate them, I just find them unattractive, shallow indeed, but not racist.

As long as we can be absolutely sure that this is purely a physical preference and that it does not in fact have to do with any other beliefs about the black race, than you are probably not racist per se. I personally have trouble putting myself in your shoes because I think that black people are usually extremely beautiful. Personally, I think if you ARE able to subjectively look at a black person, and analyze how you react to them on a purely aesthetic level, and still not find them attractive 9 times out of 10, then it is in fact an aesthetic preference. However, if you are not able to isolate a person's image from preconceptions about other people with a similar image, and you find that those preconceptions influence the way you see that person, than it does become an issue of racism.

Lastly, don't rely on a forum to tell you whether or not you're racist, because people on forums are ignorant pedantic children who don't know you. This includes myself.

I said on a different thread that I generally did not find black people attractive. I was told I was a racist for thinking that, so NSG, do you think I am racist for having that preference? And if so, why?

(and a note, try to stay as on topic to my question as possible please)You are as much a racist as a straight person is a homophobe or a gay person a heterophobe. In other words, no.

You scared me.

Don't blame me, blame Michael Jackson. :p

I said on a different thread that I generally did not find black people attractive. I was told I was a racist for thinking that, so NSG, do you think I am racist for having that preference? And if so, why?

(and a note, try to stay as on topic to my question as possible please)

No, not really. I generally (actually, always) don't find men to be attractive, that doesn't make me a sexist.

I get out so much that, I don't sit at home watching TV which where i most likely would see these prominent people. You see my friends don't tend to be famous, and I hang out with them when I go out.

Your friends don't tend to come in many shades, either. Maybe we should be asking if you've ever seen a black person.

Oh, wait, you have, because you said you didn't know anyone who found them attractive. Interesting group of friends, indeed.

And you still haven't addressed my question as to why you've singled out African/African-American people as unattractive when it appears to be dark skin you dislike. Do you find tanned white women unattractive? Do you find dark Latinas, Indian and Asian women unattractive? If you go out with a pale girl you find pretty, and you spend a week at the beach and she tans darkly, at what point does she become unattractive?

If it wasn't racist, you would allow for the possibility of black women who are attractive. Since you do not, it's racist, since you're pre-judging people based on nothing but race.

You're a racist. Next question?Assuming you are straight: You would allow for the possibility of other members of your own gender who are attractive. Since you do not, it's homophobic, since you're pre-judging people based on nothing but gender.

If you are gay, swap genders, same argument.

Don't blame me, blame Michael Jackson. :p

Never! Blaming you makes everything better!

Precisely.

And whether I find them attractive or not doesn't change anything but I am only interested in the one I love (My girlfriend :wub: )
So If it makes no difference at all then what's the problem? some people seem to want to have me hanged for thought crimes...

You are right here, Hachiyaku. I personally AM attracted to certain types of women (be they black or white or whatever) but there are certain types which I cannot say that certain races provide AT ALL that meet my desires for a woman. For example, I'm not at all attracted to Pygmy women. That does not make me racist against pygmies. Also, I do not generally find myself attracted to Asian women. But that isn't to say I'm racist towards Asians. Nor does what you said imply you are racist without actually making a remark against all women of a particular race. Perhaps a guy who likes women of a particular race, even one not their own, is a racist but simply stating you do not find a particular race physically appealing is NOT racist. It's OPINION. The only problem with that is that opinions are like noses. Everyone has one and they all smell.

Your friends don't tend to come in many shades, either. Maybe we should be asking if you've ever seen a black person.

Lol? When I have BLACK friends, East Asian Friends, tanned friends.

Your friends don't tend to come in many shades, either. Maybe we should be asking if you've ever seen a black person.

He does live in Europe. France's percentage of nonwhites, around 9% last time I checked, is the highest it's ever been in France's history. Compare that to the US's all time lowest, around 10%, sometime in the early 1800's. Not that all of Europe is France, but it still say's something.

Assuming you are straight: You would allow for the possibility of other members of your own gender who are attractive. Since you do not, it's homophobic, since you're pre-judging people based on nothing but gender.

If you are gay, swap genders, same argument.

So straight males are unable to judge the attractiveness of other men? They are all horrible looking to them? Interesting.

The OP is the guy who said that the depiction as Barack Obama as a chimpanzee was completely unracist and intelligent political satire, IIRC.

Lol? When I have BLACK friends, East Asian Friends, tanned friends.

Is there a Bigot Apologist Handbook?

This defense must be somewhere in there....

Your friends don't tend to come in many shades, either. Maybe we should be asking if you've ever seen a black person.

Oh, wait, you have, because you said you didn't know anyone who found them attractive. Interesting group of friends, indeed.

And you still haven't addressed my question as to why you've singled out African/African-American people as unattractive when it appears to be dark skin you dislike. Do you find tanned white women unattractive? Do you find dark Latinas, Indian and Asian women unattractive? If you go out with a pale girl you find pretty, and you spend a week at the beach and she tans darkly, at what point does she become unattractive?


I find African/African - American people un attractive due to some of there racial physical traits.
I find Latinas un attractive too (But I don't call them that cause last time I heard Romans weren't mixed raced, and I don't understand why people use latin to describe an ethnicity of people)
I find some Asian women attractive, but very very few, and only when they are fair skinned.

Lol? When I have BLACK friends, East Asian Friends, tanned friends.

That must be difficult, as horrible as their skin looks to you. They must be very lonely, never getting dates because no one thinks they're attractive.

Is there a Bigot Apologist Handbook?

This defense must be somewhere in there....

No your trying to argue that I don't have friends of different races, yep good on ya. :rolleyes:

So straight males are unable to judge the attractiveness of other men? They are all horrible looking to them? Interesting.

They're just not attractive.

Is there a Bigot Apologist Handbook?

This defense must be somewhere in there....

It's pages 10-156, I believe.

"I'm not racist, I have a black friend."
"I'm not racist, I work with a Jew."
"I'm not racist, I once saw a Chinese person in the store."

The OP is the guy who said that the depiction as Barack Obama as a chimpanzee was completely unracist and intelligent political satire, IIRC.

Well its hardly racist when you put it into context, which wasn't racist, and what does that have to do with my question? Unless your trying to paint me as a racist :rolleyes:

So straight males are unable to judge the attractiveness of other men? They are all horrible looking to them? Interesting.

Men can only measure attractiveness by the size of their erection. Didn't you know?

Yep, well if its racist then so what, it doesn't really change anything. Unless of course people believe that I must find black people attractive (which by using their logic is racist)You should be condemned to re-education to purge these criminal thoughts!

It's pages 10-156, I believe.

"I'm not racist, I have a black friend."
"I'm not racist, I work with a Jew."
"I'm not racist, I once saw a Chinese person in the store."

I'm not saying that though, I said I have friends of different races cause he/she said I didn't.

You should be condemned to re-education to purge these criminal thoughts!

You mean thought crimes?

They're just not attractive.

Right. Okay. Also, babies aren't beautiful, horses aren't beautiful, sunsets aren't beautiful, flowers aren't beautiful. If you're not sexually attracted to something, it can't be aesthetically pleasing.

That must be difficult, as horrible as their skin looks to you. They must be very lonely, never getting dates because no one thinks they're attractive.

Your talking rubbish again, I said I find them unattractive, and you go and spout crap implying that I said everything thinks that.

I said on a different thread that I generally did not find black people attractive. I was told I was a racist for thinking that, so NSG, do you think I am racist for having that preference? And if so, why?

(and a note, try to stay as on topic to my question as possible please)

It's not racist for you to have a preference.

The terminology "attractive" I dislike though. "X is attracted to Y" is quite correct, it puts the attraction where it belongs, in the eye of X. Unfortunately, the term also allows people to say "Y is not attractive" which is really no better than saying "Y is ugly."

There are features like youth and health which are common to most people's sense of attraction. However, there is no such thing as "attractiveness" without some Subject, a person who is attracted.

So long as you're talking only about your own preferences, not racist. If you start to make generalizations like "people are usually more attracted to those of their own race" then, yes racist.

Men can only measure attractiveness by the size of their erection. Didn't you know?

Wow I can hide behind my erection to make me look good :cool:

No wonder my girlfriend thinks I'm so attractive.

I don't find people over the age of 55 or under the age of 15 attractive either. AGEISM!
I also don't find midgets attractive.
I also don't find Picasso's art very appealing.
Man, I'm an intolerant bastard.Exactly.
I'm not a pedophile, so I must hate children! What kind of an asshole am I?

So straight males are unable to judge the attractiveness of other men? They are all horrible looking to them? Interesting.
dont ALL men have one famous man that they would "turn gay for"?

That must be difficult, as horrible as their skin looks to you. They must be very lonely, never getting dates because no one thinks they're attractive.
not to mention not wanting to date their sisters!

Dark skinned by my definition, as in rather well tanned people I would class as dark skinned, but not black. So care to point out a black person who is pale? (Not counting Albinos)Mariah Carey. ;)

Right. Okay. Also, babies aren't beautiful, horses aren't beautiful, sunsets aren't beautiful, flowers aren't beautiful. If you're not sexually attracted to something, it can't be aesthetically pleasing.

heh I have a black furred rat that is aesthetically pleasing :)

Well its hardly racist when you put it into context, which wasn't racist, and what does that have to do with my question? Unless your trying to paint me as a racist :rolleyes:

For the record, the context of the image was basically "lol obama is monkey lol". And if you're asking if I'm trying to paint you as a racist, I'm not. I'm letting you do it for me.

not to mention not wanting to date their sisters!

erm , what?

I find African/African - American people un attractive due to some of there racial physical traits.
I find Latinas un attractive too (But I don't call them that cause last time I heard Romans weren't mixed raced, and I don't understand why people use latin to describe an ethnicity of people)
I find some Asian women attractive, but very very few, and only when they are fair skinned.
that is so sad.

For the record, the context of the image was basically "lol obama is monkey lol". And if you're asking if I'm trying to paint you as a racist, I'm not. I'm letting you do it for me.

Its saying Obama is a monkey, its not saying Obama is a monkey 'cause he's black, therefore it isn't racist.

Your talking rubbish again, I said I find them unattractive, and you go and spout crap implying that I said everything thinks that.

Your words, not mine (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13932404&postcount=188)

That and well, mixed race people look quiet horrible in my opinion... (Then again so do black people, but I don't really know anyone who claims to like the appearance of black people, I know black people who hate the appearance of black people)

that is so sad.

Not really, when I find my girlfriend to be the most attractive person I have ever seen or will do it makes little difference as to whether I find other races attractive.

erm , what?
you miss out on a whole group of datable girls by not hitting on the sisters of your friends because they are not of the right race.

Your words, not mine (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13932404&postcount=188)

Fool, Nowhere did I say everyone finds them unattractive, what I said was I don't know anyone who has so far claimed to find them attractive (maybe cause I never asked them? Or its never really came up to much?)

Your words, not mine (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13932404&postcount=188)

That's pretty blatantly racist.

you miss out on a whole group of datable girls by not hitting on the sisters of your friends because they are not of the right race.

Oh right, I though you meant something about the person in questions actual sister.
And I don't need a whole group of datable women to choose from...

If you're not going to address my points or even try to think of a halfway intelligent defense for yourself, I'm done with this thread. There's no point in beating a dead troll.

So straight males are unable to judge the attractiveness of other men? They are all horrible looking to them? Interesting.That's how it is for me.

That's pretty blatantly racist.

What I meant by that was, through the limited discussion I've had with people they've all said they find them unattractive, there words not mine, so if its blatantly racist then its them who are being racist.

Fool, Nowhere did I say everyone finds them unattractive, what I said was I don't know anyone who has so far claimed to find them attractive (maybe cause I never asked them? Or its never really came up to much?)

The sense and intent of your statement are very clear.

Cool I've just got over 1,000 posts! :cool:

You mean thought crimes?Yeah but I wanted to word it differently to appear more original.

The sense and intent of your statement are very clear.

That all depends on how you perceive them, and I'm guessing your perceiving them different from how I meant.

Yep. It assumes that certain attractive or unattractive traits are common to race.

Certain physical traits ARE common to race, e.g. slanted eyes in Asians. If you found slanty eyes unattractive, you'd find Asians unattractive, but that's not racism.

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. This guy never claimed that. You can prefer certain physical traits, characteristic to a particular race, without believing that that race is superior to any other race.

If you're not going to address my points or even try to think of a halfway intelligent defense for yourself, I'm done with this thread. There's no point in beating a dead troll.

Meh, I'm half heartedly replying atm, Cause I got what I wanted from the thread and I'm not to bothered and the general chatter that's going on at the moment, and I'm busy doing other things.

Yeah but I wanted to word it differently to appear more original.

You could call it a crime of passion :p

Certain physical traits ARE common to race, e.g. slanted eyes in Asians. If you found slanty eyes unattractive, you'd find Asians unattractive, but that's not racism.

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. This guy never claimed that. You can prefer certain physical traits, characteristic to a particular race, without believing that that race is superior to any other race.

Not all Asians have "slanted eyes" I've seen loads that don't ... Well loads in comparison to how many I've seen in my lifetime.

that is so sad.

The end of "Beaches", that was sad. Not having a preference for black women simply his taste.

It's not racist for you to have a preference.

The terminology "attractive" I dislike though. "X is attracted to Y" is quite correct, it puts the attraction where it belongs, in the eye of X. Unfortunately, the term also allows people to say "Y is not attractive" which is really no better than saying "Y is ugly."

There are features like youth and health which are common to most people's sense of attraction. However, there is no such thing as "attractiveness" without some Subject, a person who is attracted.

So long as you're talking only about your own preferences, not racist. If you start to make generalizations like "people are usually more attracted to those of their own race" then, yes racist.
yeah

its not racist to have never dated a member of another race. its not racist to have never met a black person that you are attracted to (depending on how many black people you have met)

it IS racist to declare that the black race is not attractive.

why?

because the "black race" is such a diverse group of people with such physical diversity that to make such a claim is ludicrous. it means that you have an image in mind of what black IS that does not represent reality and you are making judgements of people based on that image.

What I meant by that was, through the limited discussion I've had with people they've all said they find them unattractive, there words not mine, so if its blatantly racist then its them who are being racist.

...except that you were pretty obviously using their opinions to support your contention about the unattractiveness of black people, and to suggest that people differing from this view are pretty far out of the mainstream, since (you claim) even black people share this perception.

"People I know" is a very convenient way to do this, one that makes backpedaling on the evidence easier when people insist that they don't share that opinion, but what you were getting at remains quite transparent.

The end of "Beaches", that was sad. Not having a preference for black women simply his taste.

What is sad is that, Ashmoria considers watching "prominent" people is getting out.

Fool, Nowhere did I say everyone finds them unattractive, what I said was I don't know anyone who has so far claimed to find them attractive (maybe cause I never asked them? Or its never really came up to much?)

Since you brought it up, I find some black women and even some black men attractive.

And I find it hard to believe that none of your friends are attracted to at least some black person. Either you have very few friends, or they don't dare bring it up. In this latter case, that strongly implies that you are openly racist and your friends aren't calling you on it ... which they should.

And don't flame. In your own thread!

the problem is, the premise of this very debate calls for many ad hominem attacks...I saw a dozen in the first few pages...I don't think its racist to find black people unattractive...whats the difference between classes? black people, blonde haired people...etc.
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
from dictionary.com...well he obviously isn't messing with their achievement's...unless attractiveness is an achievement...
the 2nd one doesn't apply...and I wouldn't call calling someone unattractive hatred or intolerance.
now some of the person in questions statements have been slightly racist...
but I don't think the whole thing applies...so he find dark skin unattractive...some people find blonde people unattractive...others short/tall people....I'm not quitting getting the difference...aren't they being sizist? hairist? would you actually find a black man saying he didn't like a white woman because of her skin color racist? I think this question needs to be asked...

and I wouldn't say calling all blacks unattractive racist...its a hasty generalization, which is stupid...but meh. ;)

The end of "Beaches", that was sad. Not having a preference for black women simply his taste.
not finding blacks, latinas, east asians, indians and who know who else not attractive when that is the majority of women in the world is very sad.

Certain physical traits ARE common to race, e.g. slanted eyes in Asians. If you found slanty eyes unattractive, you'd find Asians unattractive, but that's not racism.

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. This guy never claimed that. You can prefer certain physical traits, characteristic to a particular race, without believing that that race is superior to any other race.

This man is Asian.

http://www.travel-destination-pictures.com/data/media/69/ainu-elder-japan_1399.jpg

Specifically, he is Ainu. The Ainu are indigenous to Japan. *nod*

Edit: I like his hat. :)

I love black and white women. but i hate liberals

...except that you were pretty obviously using their opinions to support your contention about the unattractiveness of black people, and to suggest that people differing from this view are pretty far out of the mainstream, since (you claim) even black people share this perception.

"People I know" is a very convenient way to do this, one that makes backpedaling on the evidence easier when people insist that they don't share that opinion, but what you were getting at remains quite transparent.

Well the opinions did come from myself and the people I know, which I used to back a point (A point I can't remember at this point and don't feel like looking back on)

So anyway why are we discussing this? We are on about whether me finding black people unattractive is racist, not whether what I've said on an other thread is.

I would guess it's the way you expressed yourself, than what you expressed to be racist. But then I guess you must have figured that out from the last 11 pages.

I love black and white women. but i hate liberals

Liberals irk me but I do not hate them.

I love black and white women. but i hate liberals

Your attraction turns from "love" to "hate" when they say "Chomsky said this interesting thing ..."? :eek:

not finding blacks, latinas, east asians, indians and who know who else not attractive when that is the majority of women in the world is very sad.

What's sad about it? When you consider that I have found the most attractive person and am currently dating her and I am only interested in her, not some random Negress or Indian.

What's sad about it? When you consider that I have found the most attractive person and am currently dating her and I am only interested in her, not some random Negress or Indian.

If anyone still thought you weren't racist, they don't know.

What is sad is that, Ashmoria considers watching "prominent" people is getting out.
"getting out more" is a phrase. not knowing that there are black people with blonde hair and blue eyes, aquiline noses, light skin, or whatever other trait you assume no black person possesses shows that you dont have much of a breadth of experience with black people whether that is in the media or in person.

Hachi, monogamy is all very well and isn't the issue anyway.

But IF your girlfriend was black or asian, would you still consider her a "random" choice?

dont ALL men have one famous man that they would "turn gay for"?

Bugs Bunny.

If anyone still thought you weren't racist, they don't know.

Erm if Negress is racist then I did not know that :$ I thought it was the female equivalent of Negro.

Hachi, monogamy is all very well and isn't the issue anyway.

But IF your girlfriend was black or asian, would you still consider her a "random" choice?

Well she wouldn't be random if she was my girlfriend, cause I don't date random people, I date them for a reason.

What's sad about it? When you consider that I have found the most attractive person and am currently dating her and I am only interested in her, not some random Negress or Indian.

Not finding black people attractive is not inherently racist, but the word negress is.

"getting out more" is a phrase. not knowing that there are black people with blonde hair and blue eyes, aquiline noses, light skin, or whatever other trait you assume no black person possesses shows that you dont have much of a breadth of experience with black people whether that is in the media or in person.

Well the way you used it, it should be "getting in and switching the TV on".

And I knew there where black people of your specifications it is just they are extremely rare, at least in Britain.

Not finding black people attractive is not inherently racist, but the word negress is.

Um, why is it racist?

Edit: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13933166&postcount=173

would you actually find a black man saying he didn't like a white woman because of her skin color racist? I think this question needs to be asked...


yes.

althought i dont think that our OP claimed to not LIKE black women, he just doesnt find them attractive.

if a black man said that he finds no white women attractive --that is racist.

if he said he doesnt want to DATE white women--not so much.

What's sad about it? When you consider that I have found the most attractive person and am currently dating her and I am only interested in her, not some random Negress or Indian.
oh stop trying to muddy the water with "oh i love my girlfriend"

Erm if Negress is racist then I did not know that :$ I thought it was the female equivalent of Negro.

You were right; it is. Don't say negro either! I don't think you're racist, just ignorant.

You were right; it is. Don't say negro either! I don't think you're racist, just ignorant.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=negress

Theres nothing racist about negro/negress.

oh stop trying to muddy the water with "oh i love my girlfriend"

But I do, and in the situation it is somewhat relevant.

Had I noticed this nonsense earlier, I would have locked it earlier. Hachihyaku, you really need to learn how to phrase a topic for debate so that it does not become an excuse for others to dogpile you or for you to flame others.

The only reason you're not getting an infraction for trolling is that if I gave you one, I would feel compelled, in fairness, to hand out infractions for the flaming that you drew, and I don't feel I'm paid enough to have to read through this sort of thing twice.