NationStates Jolt Archive

Just watch all three Starship Troopers movies. and it got me thinking.

Suppose we are now living with that sort of Government. no war with anyone (not even with Iraq), but one that requires Federal Serivce in order to be a Citizen as opposed to a Civilian.

Would you settle to being a Civilian or would you join up to be a Citizen?

I never read the book, but what was gleaned from the movies are...
1) It's easier to get licences for things like marriages, having children etc... if you're a Citizen.
2) The Right to Vote is given only to Citizens and not Civilians
3) Citizenship is required for Politics

Edit: never read the book, but apprently, Federal Service is not limited to Military Service, but for the purpose of this thread, we'll follow the movies viewpoint.

There's a 3rd? ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG

And the book is pretty epic. Same kinda setting but with a different plot from the first two movies *not sure about the 3rd*

I gleaned that the Government of that world has a fetish for whipping people.

I'm sure some people would enjoy that.

There's a 3rd? ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG

And the book is pretty epic. Same kinda setting but with a different plot from the first two movies *not sure about the 3rd*

yep (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0844760/)
they introduce the Marauder battlesuit as well as some... interesting new bugs.

The flavor is more in line with the original movie.

In the book, isn't Federal Service not exclusively the military?

Personally, I believe there might be some validity to restricting franchise to those that have served the state. Surely, one must be led to lead. 'Course, there is the question of basic human rights...

I think Heinlein explained somewhere that Federal Service could include jobs like police, firefighter, forest ranger but not necessarily civil service (which he described as being a form of welfare for incompetents) or teaching (which, while vital to the community, was not on the same level of self-sacrifice - although, from what I've seen in current years, you should have combat and police training to teach in some schools).

Three?! I couldn't even get through Starship Troopers 1! That movie was so boring.

Read the book. The movie was marginal in a 'I'm too drunk to get off the couch to find the remote and/or change the channel' kind of way. The book is universes better and is actually required reading at (I think) West Point and Annapolis.

Given the conditions laid down in the book, I'd take Federal Service in a heartbeat.

If we're talking about the military in the book, I'd join in a heartbeat. Powered armor, a giant arsenal, and an excuse to lay down some serious punishment on the alien threat?
I'd hit it so hard the person who pulled me out would be crowned king of England :p

In the movie, you'd have difficulty dragging me into the military with threats of torture.
"This is your rifle, this makes it shoot. This is your helmet, dont lose it, you only get one. This is your body armor, heres the bits that go together. Alright, thats basic training! Now we flog somebody and send the rest of you out to die at the hands of ravenous insects with minimal air support and no apparent ground vehicles of any kind! Huzzah!"

I mean, even the US military is better off than THAT. At least a single M-16 is capable of killing a human. The guns they have in the movies seem to have trouble taking out a single bug per clip...if they ever had to reload, that is.

They should've given them bolters or something. I bet a 20mm automatic firing explosive shells would stop those bugs in their tracks ;)

How come a civilization that has apparently mastered faster than light travel doesn't either have RPGs or APCs? I might request to do federal service as a weapons designer :p

One thing mentioned by the creators that a lot of people don't get is the movie versions of Starship Troopers are meant in part to be farsicle (and I laugh pretty hard at them sometimes). The characters in the book/movie have totally devoted themselves to a body politic that truly does not care for them in the least and has near total control over every aspect of human life. How the newsreels will censor out the killing of a cow but will gleefully broadcast to the entire galaxy the execution or mutilation of soldiers and prisoners should be the first clue... and some of the key scenes. I couldn't keep a straight face at the end of Starship Troopers 3 even though I enjoyed the movie emensly.

The other part is action oriented... and well anyone who has watched even 10 minutes of any of the trilogy knows that much.

I refuse to take part in this, for the movies were not true to the book. *puts nose in the air*

I refuse to take part in this, for the movies were not true to the book. *puts nose in the air*

Then why did you post?

If there isn't war, a military per se shouldn't even exist. Ergo, service is logically going to be something civil.

If there isn't war, a military per se shouldn't even exist. Ergo, service is logically going to be something civil.

Except that during the course of human civilisation war seems to be a constant :(

Aside: the humans of Larry Nivens known space thought that way before the Kzin wars. To stay in the scifi world ;)

T-r-e-a-s-o-n!

Sure, who doesn't love those space nazis?

If we're talking about the military in the book, I'd join in a heartbeat. Powered armor, a giant arsenal, and an excuse to lay down some serious punishment on the alien threat?
I'd hit it so hard the person who pulled me out would be crowned king of England :p

In the movie, you'd have difficulty dragging me into the military with threats of torture.
"This is your rifle, this makes it shoot. This is your helmet, dont lose it, you only get one. This is your body armor, heres the bits that go together. Alright, thats basic training! Now we flog somebody and send the rest of you out to die at the hands of ravenous insects with minimal air support and no apparent ground vehicles of any kind! Huzzah!"

I mean, even the US military is better off than THAT. At least a single M-16 is capable of killing a human. The guns they have in the movies seem to have trouble taking out a single bug per clip...if they ever had to reload, that is.

They should've given them bolters or something. I bet a 20mm automatic firing explosive shells would stop those bugs in their tracks ;)

How come a civilization that has apparently mastered faster than light travel doesn't either have RPGs or APCs? I might request to do federal service as a weapons designer :p

Excellent observations. We have ships that do FTL and appear to bank their turns in space (don't get me started), but a hand-held weapon that can kill a giant arthropod? Too advanced. :rolleyes:

The movie was an exercise in getting Casper Van Dien's chin, Michael Ironside's derivative tough-guy act, Jake Busey's creepy face/demeanor, Denise Richards' so-cute-it's-actually-ugly look, and Dina Meyer's perky little tits on the screen. The fact that the OP actually likes the first film, let alone the straight-to-video milkings that followed it is kinda disturbing.

Then why did you post?
To express my distaste with the movie adaptations.

The movie was an exercise in getting Casper Van Dien's chin, Michael Ironside's derivative tough-guy act, Jake Busey's creepy face/demeanor, Denise Richards' so-cute-it's-actually-ugly look, and Dina Meyer's perky little tits on the screen. The fact that the OP actually likes the first film, let alone the straight-to-video milkings that followed it is kinda disturbing.

Don't forget the film's crowning glory; seeing Doogie Howser dressed up like a Nazi SS commandant. That was worth the entry price alone!

http://sharetv.org/images/doogie_howser_md-show.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Mdz8XzVJAFs/SAzpSU_RWEI/AAAAAAAAAZE/XBO5CxhiLk8/s1600/997STS_Neil_Patrick_Harris_007.jpg

I thought the first movie was so tremendously awful, and represented every sci fi stereotype so well (including the black guy dying first), that I refused to see the second and didn't even know there was a third. The idea of paying to see any of those movies (I saw the first on AMC) is laughable.

That being said, I heard the book is much better, and plan on buying it sometime.

Excellent observations. We have ships that do FTL and appear to bank their turns in space (don't get me started), but a hand-held weapon that can kill a giant arthropod? Too advanced. :rolleyes:

Oh, but don't you see? It was SATIRE.
Never mind that the first mentions of satire only came AFTER the massive outcries from people who had read the book. :p

Wow the third film sucked...

Then why did you post?

For teh post count obviously :)

Sure, who doesn't love those space nazis?

QFT. I've liked some of Heinlein's work, but I could not live up to his idea of what makes one a man, or even makes one worthwhile. Like in ancient Sparta, in Heinlein's novel I'd have been left in a cave to die as an infant due to my disability. I reject utterly the idea that one is unfit if one cannot serve in the millitary or some other physical labor-intensive occupation.

Oh, but don't you see? It was SATIRE.
Never mind that the first mentions of satire only came AFTER the massive outcries from people who had read the book. :p

I watched the film not having read the book, heard of the film before or anything and I caught the satire.

Partially of sci-fi, but mostly of societal attitudes to war and the military in general, particularly with the media's reporting of it.

QFT. I've liked some of Heinlein's work, but I could not live up to his idea of what makes one a man, or even makes one worthwhile. Like in ancient Sparta, in Heinlein's novel I'd have been left in a cave to die as an infant due to my disability. I reject utterly the idea that one is unfit if one cannot serve in the millitary or some other physical labor-intensive occupation.

In the book it was implied that anyone could serve regardless of age or disability. A place would be found. Of course, you could end up being a government guinea pig for biologicals, but you'd be serving.

In the book it was implied that anyone could serve regardless of age or disability. A place would be found. Of course, you could end up being a government guinea pig for biologicals, but you'd be serving.

I'll pass.

In the movie, you'd have difficulty dragging me into the military with threats of torture.
"This is your rifle, this makes it shoot. This is your helmet, dont lose it, you only get one. This is your body armor, heres the bits that go together. Alright, thats basic training! Now we flog somebody and send the rest of you out to die at the hands of ravenous insects with minimal air support and no apparent ground vehicles of any kind! Huzzah!"
You forget the most important part of basic training: "Future Football." Which is just like normal football, only gayer for the introduction of gymnastics and stupider for the introduction of arbitrary obstacles in the middle of the field.

And either way, I'd turn traitor in a second, as such a stupid government model doesn't deserve anything but contempt. A simple survey of U.S. presidents demonstrates that ex-military are generally mediocre civil leaders.

You forget the most important part of basic training: "Future Football." Which is just like normal football, only gayer for the introduction of gymnastics and stupider for the introduction of arbitrary obstacles in the middle of the field.

And either way, I'd turn traitor in a second, as such a stupid government model doesn't deserve anything but contempt. A simple survey of U.S. presidents demonstrates that ex-military are generally mediocre civil leaders.

Teddy Roosevelt, George Washington, Andrew Jackson...

A simple survey of U.S. presidents demonstrates that ex-military are generally mediocre civil leaders.

Actually, it demonstrates the exact opposite. Out of the military leaders that later became presidents, only Grant was actually a 'bad' (for a given value of 'bad') president.

Excellent observations. We have ships that do FTL and appear to bank their turns in space (don't get me started), but a hand-held weapon that can kill a giant arthropod? Too advanced. :rolleyes: they did have RPGs and don't forget, they were told (in the first movie) where to shoot the arachnids (with 6 limbs :rolleyes:) to put em down instantly. too bad the Intelligence Officer could shoot better than the IM.

The fact that the OP actually likes the first film, let alone the straight-to-video milkings that followed it is kinda disturbing. hey, I never hid my preference for B-Movies! :D