NationStates Jolt Archive

Suppose in the not too distant future some major revolution occurs and somehow all free nations now resemble 18-18th century nations technologically(for civilians anyway). Meanwhile in all the ebil dictatorships some new scientific discovery or invention causes their economies to boom yet the free nations still have strong armies to act as a deterrent or defend if necessary. Because of this you have two choices, live in a free nation with tons of civil rights but live a lifestyle with little or no technology or live a more than comfortable and cozy modern/futuristic lifestyle provided you do what the gov says?

CHOOSE!

I would join the technologically advanced nation...and overthrow it using technology!!! Information Technology specially has done a lot to put dictators in trouble.

Try a hard one, hm? Civil rights and 18th century life style for me. I can manage things like spinning, weaving, and carrying buckets of water. I can probably even manage the shorter life span and health issues.

I'm having real trouble managing the government input into our lives right now. I'd go insane in a dictatorship.

I would join the technologically advanced nation...and overthrow it using technology!!! Information Technology specially has done a lot to put dictators in trouble.

They would have strict control over technology though. Life in that country would be either don't piss off the dictator/gov and live in luzury or cross them and have that technology turned against you.

I choose whatever country SL chooses so I can fish slap him for this thread.

OK. I see, in your hypothetical world. IRL it would be practically impossible to have this kind of control...

But another questiong 18th century were. European 18th century? African 18th century?

I choose whatever country SL chooses so I can fish slap him for this thread.

*puts on brass knuckles* I'd like to see ya try. ;)

I will make the rational choice to not be raped and killed by the highway robber please

18-18th century nations technologically

I can't even comprehend that kind of variation!

I'm having real trouble managing the government input into our lives right now. I'd go insane in a dictatorship.

I'm sure living in a tiny village confined to a bunch of ignorant peasants will suite you fine :)

-Snip-


I'm sure living in a tiny village confined to a bunch of ignorant peasants will suite you fine :)

As long as I'm not one of the ignorant peasants.;)

As long as I'm not one of the ignorant peasants.;)

...

shes a witch!

I'd be one of those self-made billionaire owners of trading companies from the 18th century, shipping miracle machines from those other countries and selling them. Then I can live in comfort because I'll have servants.

Some freedom, if I can only have it at the expense of comfort. :tongue:

OK. I see, in your hypothetical world. IRL it would be practically impossible to have this kind of control...

But another questiong 18th century were. European 18th century? African 18th century?

European.

Why would it be impossible to acquire this kind of control? In this day and age any individual can be tracked by their cell phone or via internet. What more for in future? Secondly a dictatorship that is booming technologically would make sure ALL technology were strictly serviced by employees of the government and the gov would make sure ALL the technology had federal overrides. Also most importantly if everyone was spoiled with advanced and leisurely living who'd want to rebel, if everyone was absorbed by the technological fads or too concerned with their easy living the chances that someone will notice the unethical behavior of the dictatorship or even care would be really slim. Also who'd want to rebel if they knew that at any moment a federal agent watching them could press a button which would order the smart house to kill them or have the computer rewrite his profiles to his disadvantage.

European.

Why would it be impossible to acquire this kind of control? In this day and age any individual can be tracked by their cell phone or via internet. What more for in future? Secondly a dictatorship that is booming technologically would make sure ALL technology were strictly serviced by employees of the government and the gov would make sure ALL the technology had federal overrides. Also most importantly if everyone was spoiled with advanced and leisurely living who'd want to rebel, if everyone was absorbed by the technological fads or too concerned with their easy living the chances that someone will notice the unethical behavior of the dictatorship or even care would be really slim.

The more complicated the system the easier is to crack it. But then again I don´t think it would get us anywhere to discuss if hypothetical situations are feasible.

Then again, if everyone has a comfortable good life then I don't think many would like to rebel.

'They think they want good government and justice for all, yet what is it they really crave, deep in their hearts? Only that things go on as normal and tomorrow is pretty much like today.

I personally prefer to live under a dictator...not much different that what I do now... than live with out sewage.

I'll get a cheap firearm from the advanced country and take up the life of an 18th century highwayman. Heigh-ho and away!

Comfortable sheep? No thanks

I live in the third world anyway - where some things still seem like they are in the 18th century - (People still get to work here - in Rio Grande do Sul - by horse and trap for example) so I guess I could cope.

I'd be one of those self-made billionaire owners of trading companies from the 18th century, shipping miracle machines from those other countries and selling them. Then I can live in comfort because I'll have servants.

*steals your booty*

Some freedom, if I can only have it at the expense of comfort. :tongue:

so what your saying is you get your powers by allowing a demon to suck from your teat at night in an evil pact with the devil!

witch.

Why would it be impossible to acquire this kind of control? In this day and age any individual can be tracked by their cell phone or via internet.

in theory

...in practice however

I'll get a cheap firearm from the advanced country and take up the life of an 18th century highwayman. Heigh-ho and away!

I'll be the executioner that hangs you.

I think I'd gather like-minded people in the dictatorship and stage a revolution. Would I fail and die? Probably. But damn if it wouldn't be epic.

Suppose in the not too distant future some major revolution occurs and somehow all free nations now resemble 18-18th century nations technologically(for civilians anyway). Meanwhile in all the ebil dictatorships some new scientific discovery or invention causes their economies to boom yet the free nations still have strong armies to act as a deterrent or defend if necessary. Because of this you have two choices, live in a free nation with tons of civil rights but live a lifestyle with little or no technology or live a more than comfortable and cozy modern/futuristic lifestyle provided you do what the gov says?

CHOOSE!

I'd choose based on culture. Whichever nation patronised the arts and study. I'd rather serve an authoritarian system that encourages people to achieve high in culture than a democracy that sinks to the lowest common denominator in order to win votes.

Technology isn't a big deal to me either way.

I think I'd gather like-minded people in the dictatorship and stage a revolution. Would I fail and die? Probably. But damn if it wouldn't be epic.

what do you have against my comfy bed that restricts my freedom to get up in the morning?

can you truly be comfortable without some basic freedom?

Bomb the evil dictator's country until 1) he gives tech to us too or 2) he's in the stone age and we're ahead of him.



What, you don't think people would think of this?

I'll get a cheap firearm from the advanced country and take up the life of an 18th century highwayman. Heigh-ho and away!
If you'll hang for a sheep as well as a man, why not be baaaaaad?

can you truly be comfortable without some basic freedom?

Depends on how awesome the experiences the technology offers you are. If WoW can zombify a teenager today what could advanced tech in the future do to all ages on a massive scale?

Bomb the evil dictator's country until 1) he gives tech to us too or 2) he's in the stone age and we're ahead of him.

I should have made this clearer in the OP, the evil nations are being held at bay by the free nations' armies but the cost to keep the evil nations at bay has contributed to the lower standard of living. So basically its like a second cold war so getting any tech would from the other side would be incredibly hard. After all if you a nation that possessed access to new technology you'd o all you could to keep others from taking it. Right?

WOW... now you just added and adjective. EVIL. So dictator is EVIL...even when he provides a comfortable well being for all his subjects.

WOW... now you just added and adjective. EVIL. So dictator is EVIL...even when he provides a comfortable well being for all his subjects.

Only so that they'll stay in line. He does it to make them believe he's good that way he'll have to worry about rebellion less. He's basically in it all for the power.

Also I'd like you to reread the OP CAREFULLY note that nothing changed and that the dictator was evil from the beginning.

what do you have against my comfy bed that restricts my freedom to get up in the morning?

Where are the leaders of the land? Where are the swells who run the show?

WOW... now you just added and adjective. EVIL. So dictator is EVIL...even when he provides a comfortable well being for all his subjects.
no, it's in the OP.

Where are the leaders of the land? Where are the swells who run the show?
Only one man and that's Lemarque Speaks for the people here below

I'll be the executioner that hangs you.

/me shoots the rope from long range so that Fiddlebottoms can escape.

:sniper:

ohhhh eBil!!!

So he is giving everybody a good life now so they cooperate and help him conquest the rest of the world, meanwhile using the comfort to buy the support from the underclasses of the free nations...I like this guy!!!... I would join him!!!

Presumably the standards of living would improve over time. I would choose freedom, since a powerful dictatorship with advanced tech and high standards of living would be a lot harder to get rid of than to replace the lost tech, and because its better to be poor and free than live in a gilded cage.

Only so that they'll stay in line. He does it to make them believe he's good that way he'll have to worry about rebellion less. He's basically in it all for the power.

Also I'd like you to reread the OP CAREFULLY note that nothing changed and that the dictator was evil from the beginning.

if he provides comfort and keeps the people happy to the point where they don't mind him staying in power, then I choose the technology.

after all, sanitation facilities of the 18th century were... messy.

Another point is that in order for those low tech countries to keep forces to the size to discourage the high tech countries from invading, they would have to have some sort of conscription, where everyone will be forced into millitary service. "Do your part Citizen!"

Try a hard one, hm? Civil rights and 18th century life style for me. I can manage things like spinning, weaving, and carrying buckets of water. I can probably even manage the shorter life span and health issues.

I'm having real trouble managing the government input into our lives right now. I'd go insane in a dictatorship.
The OP doesn't say that we'd lose the memory of things like soap and personal hygiene, so we probably would not die as readily of basic infections as people back then did.



I'm sure living in a tiny village confined to a bunch of ignorant peasants will suite you fine :)
I'd be perfectly comfortable living the 18th century lifestyle in a tiny village like Boston or New York City. Even a rural area like Vermont would be fine. In fact, now that I think of it, I could probably rent some of the same apartments I've already lived in with no significant changes to them.

...

shes a witch!
They weren't into witches in the 18th century. You're thinking of the 15th and 16th centuries.

...

shes a witch!

Not just a witch, a crone!

I forgot to say: I'll take freedom, please.

It is impossible for a controlling dictatorship to provide comfort to me because a controlling dictatorship forces one to pay attention to the government whether one wants to or not, and the government consists of people, and paying attention to people I don't want to be aware of is the single most annoying, stressful, uncomfortable thing I can ever be made to do. There are not enough down comforters, interwebs, or fast food joints in the world to make up for it.

Not just a witch, a crone!

She's had congress with the beast?

This is just me, but wouldn't it be more accurate to describe the free nations state of technology as Third World or developing countries?
Anyway, I'd rather take freedom over comfort. IMO, the people are being anesthized (correct spelling?) with wide screen plasma T.V.s and a comfortable living style while the government picks away their rights to the bone. Don't misunderstand me; I support technological progress (Stem Cell Research FTW), but not when it's abused like this.

I'll be the executioner that hangs you.
I'm picturing my death as being more along the lines of going out in a blaze of futile rage (http://www.potw.org/archive/potw85.html) that pisses all over the sacrifices of my loved ones.

She's had congress with the beast?

I've been nowhere near Congress.

No, I'm just old.

I'm picturing my death as being more along the lines of going out in a blaze of futile rage (http://www.potw.org/archive/potw85.html) that pisses all over the sacrifices of my loved ones.

Alright, I'll supply the landlord's daughter with the musket then.

Also, is it just me, or does anyone think that "The Highwayman" could be a good movie.

Alright, I'll supply the landlord's daughter with the musket then.

Also, is it just me, or does anyone think that "The Highwayman" could be a good movie.
Like this one? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043638/

Or bits of these? http://www.imdb.com/keyword/highwayman/

Like this one? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043638/

Or bits of these? http://www.imdb.com/keyword/highwayman/

but I want a modern one.

Well, I'm very, very much libertarian, anarchist even.

But I also believe in evolution and natural selection.
If the libertarian nations become backyards, third world hellholes, then it's a proof they were wrong, and that I was wrong as well. It will mean the Western world was wrong all along, and liberty leads to failure. It will mean I was wrong along with it.

I guess I won't have much choice but to admit my mistake and go with what Evolution has chosen.



But it will never happen, since a libertarian system is so far superior to any totalitarian one that it will catch up technologically in almost no time.