NationStates Jolt Archive

I've seen a lot of stuff offered as evidence that the Earth is visited regularly by UFOs. From crop circles to Roswell metal to Area 51 our culture is replete with icons that represent alien visits whether they're authentic or not.

So what about you guys? Whaddya think?

Personally, I believe that there are other inhabited worlds out there in the Universe, but I'm very skeptical whenever I hear of stories of UFOs. I'm completely undecided in this matter.

Poll inc.

I agree with the above statement.

I believe in UFOs, but I also believe that Earth is like the deep south of the Milky Way Galaxy. Most Aliens just roll up their windows and lock their doors when they pass us. *nod*

UFOs don't come from outer space, they originate from the submerged cities of Atlantis and R'lyeh, who have been waging war against each other for countless millenniums.

I prefer not to believe that aliens have nothing better to do here than molest us and kill livestock. Particularly as both are the sort of things that would have been attributed to witches in bygone days, and the standard "abduction-by-aliens" scenario matches sleep paralysis fairly closely.

If there are aliens passing through the Solar system, it's highly likely that we have nothing they want.

What's all this nonsense about government in the poll? :confused:

I think there is a good probability that there's life elsewhere in the universe. But it's rather unlikely that they pop round every now and then to conduct rectal checkups on humans and leave pretty patterns in crops.

I dunno. I guess it's possible, but I haven't seen any convincing evidence that they are.

Nah. I don't think so.

We live on the outer rim of our galaxy, there is literally nothing of interest out here. We're not on the way to anywhere, and we're not close to anything of astronomical interest. The odds that aliens would visit this out of the way little ball of mud to see a bunch of nearly hairless monkeys flinging bombs at each other is a bit of a stretch.

We live on the outer rim of our galaxy, there is literally nothing of interest out here. We're not on the way to anywhere, and we're not close to anything of astronomical interest. The odds that aliens would visit this out of the way little ball of mud to see a bunch of nearly hairless monkeys flinging bombs at each other is a bit of a stretch.

We could be the galactical equivalent of Big Brother.

I think there is a good probability that there's life elsewhere in the universe. But it's rather unlikely that they pop round every now and then to conduct rectal checkups on humans and leave pretty patterns in crops.

Interstellar hooliganism <nod>

But seriously, aliens most likely exist, but they havent visited us, from a few light years away Sol is just another star, nothing special.

We could be the galactical equivalent of Big Brother.

Which means....Who will you evict from Big Brother Earth?! More importantly, I'm on TV!

Yes there are UFOs that is until they become identified and lose the U.

We live on the outer rim of our galaxy, there is literally nothing of interest out here. We're not on the way to anywhere, and we're not close to anything of astronomical interest. The odds that aliens would visit this out of the way little ball of mud to see a bunch of nearly hairless monkeys flinging bombs at each other is a bit of a stretch.

The road less travelled perhaps?

Which means....Who will you evict from Big Brother Earth?! More importantly, I'm on TV!

See that explains why Bush was made President, they placed him in to boost ratings.

See that explains why Bush was made President, they placed him in to boost ratings.

"And there's still World War 3 to look forward to!" [/southpark]

The road less travelled perhaps?

I could see aliens popping by for a quick look see, but can't imagine them bothering to stick around. I simply doubt there would be any reason to be interested.

"And there's still World War 3 to look forward to!" [/southpark]

Haha exactly.

Thanks for explaining the reference.

We live on the outer rim of our galaxy, there is literally nothing of interest out here. We're not on the way to anywhere, and we're not close to anything of astronomical interest. The odds that aliens would visit this out of the way little ball of mud to see a bunch of nearly hairless monkeys flinging bombs at each other is a bit of a stretch.

Actually, just to play devil's advocate...

The region of the galaxy we live in is perfectly suited for life. Much closer to the galactic core there's too much radiation for life to exist.

At the risk of being branded a goof ...

Yeah, I've seen one. It was close to 30 years ago. I was sitting in my car in morning commute traffic, waiting for a light to change. Turned to the right and saw something like the one below, sitting stationary at about a 30° cant off horizontal, probably about a mile away. My best description was that it looked like one of those bucket fishing caps with a circular slanted brim and a flat top, but it appeared to be brushed metal of some sort, with 4 or 5 windows in the vertical portion.
http://www.patriciamclaine.com/ufo0414a.jpg

I watched it sit there for about 10 seconds, then it darted a few hundred yards to the right and stopped again for a few seconds. It then receded rapidly away from me at an angle, then appeared to make an instant right angle turn at speed and ascended out of sight in seconds. If it hadn't been for that apparently inertialess turn, I'd have assumed my eyes were playing tricks on me and I was watching a plane or something.

Do I believe? Not sure. But I know what I saw, and I can't explain it.

At the risk of being branded a goof ...

Yeah, I've seen one. It was close to 30 years ago. I was sitting in my car in morning commute traffic, waiting for a light to change. Turned to the right and saw something like the one below, sitting stationary at about a 30° cant off horizontal, probably about a mile away. My best description was that it looked like one of those bucket fishing caps with a circular slanted brim and a flat top, but it appeared to be brushed metal of some sort, with 4 or 5 windows in the vertical portion.
http://www.patriciamclaine.com/ufo0414a.jpg

I watched it sit there for about 10 seconds, then it darted a few hundred yards to the right and stopped again for a few seconds. It then receded rapidly away from me at an angle, then appeared to make an instant right angle turn at speed and ascended out of sight in seconds. If it hadn't been for that apparently inertialess turn, I'd have assumed my eyes were playing tricks on me and I was watching a plane or something.

Do I believe? Not sure. But I know what I saw, and I can't explain it.

Alien taking its driving test.

"Now young Martian your test will be conducted on earth. Watch out carefully for any obstructions including missiles."

There are certainly unidentified flying objects (just ask Dennis Kucinich), but I think it's unlikely these objects are alien spacecraft. We've been sending out radio waves for at least fifty years, and have actually been trying to make contact for about thirty. We've received nothing back, which suggests there's no one within a fifteen light-year radius of us, at least. Unless the aliens are hiding, I don't see how they can be anywhere nearby.

Or it could all just be a conspiracy. That's likely, too.

Do I think there are is life on other planets? Yes, because to assume we are the only planet in the entire universe with life, when there are billions of stars and billions more planets is just absurd.

Do I believe these other civilizations visit earth in flying saucers and stick probes up peoples backsides and examine our cattle (and almost exclusively visit the USA)?

No.

There are some weird objects flying around, all of which, I believe, are built by ourselves, as desperate attempts to find new ways to kill teh ebil commies/bourgeois-imperialists/terrorists/infidels. Ideally we prefer to keep such things under wraps, in case teh ebil commies/bourgeois-imperialists/terrorists/infidels find out, and try to copy it for their own ebil ends.

To have a vessel capable of successfully navigating the vast distances between star systems would necessitate several things:

* A vessel of vast size that would allow it ti sustain crew for journeys that would take centuries to complete. Such a ship does not fit the description of the small flying discs everyone talks about. It would be like a entire city arriving. Everyone would know. If the civilization had such sophisticated vessels, and the organisation and resources to undertake such journeys. Why come to Earth?

* Alternatively, they have some form of faster than light travel, in which case they may have small flying discs, but their reasons coming to Earth are even more obscure. Also, their medical research technology would assumeably be more sophisticated than a stick to shove up the backsides of other life they come across. If you can develop some kind of jumpgate, chances are you have at least the equivalent of a CT scanner.

Also, why be secretive? With the kind of power that comes with either of the above, you just declare yourself ruler, period.

There are certainly unidentified flying objects (just ask Dennis Kucinich), but I think it's unlikely these objects are alien spacecraft. We've been sending out radio waves for at least fifty years, and have actually been trying to make contact for about thirty. We've received nothing back, which suggests there's no one within a fifteen light-year radius of us, at least. Unless the aliens are hiding, I don't see how they can be anywhere nearby.

Or it could all just be a conspiracy. That's likely, too.

In fairness, there are only a handful of systems within 15 LY of ours and from what we can see, not many of them appear to be capable of sustaining life.

mostly likely UFOs have a non-space alien explanation.

In fairness, there are only a handful of systems within 15 LY of ours and from what we can see, not many of them appear to be capable of sustaining life.

But an alien spaceship capable of traveling to our planet should also be able to pick up our signals and respond.
Or not. I could be anthromorphizing them too much; it's always possible they detect what we send and dismiss it as natural, not the result of intelligent beings.

I certainly fly around from time to time, but since I'm a Dragon I qualify as an Identified Flying Object.

There's no meaningful evidence that aliens are visiting Earth. I'm sure that there is intelligent life on other planets, I'm pretty sure that they aren't visiting us. It's pretty much a matter of hoaxes and overactive imaginations.

I think people need to start using the acronym U.F.O correctly. It does not mean alien space craft. It mean Unidentified Flying Object. If you look up in the sky and you don't know what you're seeing up there then it is a U.F.O until you discover what it actually is. Now, some of those that have never been ID'ed MAY have been alien space craft but that is not the meaning of the word.

There are certainly unidentified flying objects (just ask Dennis Kucinich), but I think it's unlikely these objects are alien spacecraft. We've been sending out radio waves for at least fifty years, and have actually been trying to make contact for about thirty. We've received nothing back, which suggests there's no one within a fifteen light-year radius of us, at least.

Or they use something other than radio waves for communication and have no way of interpreting what we sent out.

we're visited by aliens, sure, but not by alien scientists or explorers...

we're visted by teenagers out for a drunken joyride. think about it. they find an isolated inhabitant and then they scare the pants off of em. some of the more kinkier ones take people on board where they are probed for nothing more but drunken juvenile entertainment.

as for UFO's... yep, seen alot of em. of course, once I IDENTIFY THEM, then they're no longer UFO's, but IFO's.

But an alien spaceship capable of traveling to our planet should also be able to pick up our signals and respond.
Or not. I could be anthromorphizing them too much; it's always possible they detect what we send and dismiss it as natural, not the result of intelligent beings.

Or they have a physiology incapable of perceiving it. Or we said/did something in the signals we sent that offended them for cultural or religious reasons. Which may explain sticking things up our asses and killing our cows.

Do I think aliens exist? Almost certainly.

UFO abductions, alien contact, and all that? I'd say maybe one in ten thousand 'alien contact' and UFO sighting stories are, in fact, true, and were actually aliens.
Of course, I live in Arizona. Around here you sort of expect that sort of thing. You see mysterious lights in the sky and say, "Oh, those crazy Raytheon guys are at it again. What will they thin of next?" :p

I'd say probably yes, based on circumstancial evidence. Unfortunately, its just that: circumstancial.

I've never seen one, but my father did.

Now as to weather the government is dealing with them, I think there are officials who know more than they have revealed, but I don't know how much.

I'm sure there are lots of flying objects that are unidentified to someone.


Oh, you mean aliens visiting Earth? I suppose it's possible, but it's very unlikely.

As a youth, I saw a UFO, I was with a group of twenty people, a mix of other kids, and adults, so it was not just me...Then, two years later, I met some people that saw the same thing on the same night, but in another New England state...It was cigar shaped, and spinning in a slow circle, as well as rotating on it's own axis, we watched it for almost two minutes, then, it left, in a straight line, away from us, very, very quickly...

Alien life probably does exist but I refuse to believe they'd be capable of going hundreds of light years, and yet still be stupid enough to be seen by humans.

I don't believe faster than light travel is possible. I think it's wishful thinking to imagine that one day we will discover some magical loop-hole in the laws of physics that allows space opera to become reality.

On those grounds, I find it hard to believe aliens have ever visited earth - because if they did, it would be a long journey and they wouldn't come just to fly around mysteriously in front of someone with a phone camera for 30 seconds and then fuck off.

Alien life probably does exist but I refuse to believe they'd be capable of going hundreds of light years, and yet still be stupid enough to be seen by humans.

There are other possible reasons for them being seen besides incompitancy. They might be allowing us to catch glimpses of them for various reasons, or they might simply think themselves sufficiantly above us for it not to matter. The last would more than adequately explain why we see them so much, but they don't come right out and make contact.

Besides, extraordinary technical capabillities are no garuntee of perfect competancy. We have much better tech than humans back in World War 2, but I doubt many would claim that the Bush Administration is more competant than FDR's Presidency.

Alien life probably does exist but I refuse to believe they'd be capable of going hundreds of light years, and yet still be stupid enough to be seen by humans.

Considering they're aliens It could be that they're technical geniuses, but total idiots in other respects.

I don't believe faster than light travel is possible. I think it's wishful thinking to imagine that one day we will discover some magical loop-hole in the laws of physics that allows space opera to become reality.

On those grounds, I find it hard to believe aliens have ever visited earth - because if they did, it would be a long journey and they wouldn't come just to fly around mysteriously in front of someone with a phone camera for 30 seconds and then fuck off.

Thank you, for you have raised in a very concise fasion at least two common but simplistic arguments, thus providing me with an opening to refute them:).

Regarding faster than light travel, there are two excellent rebuttals to that argument. The first is that our knowledge of physics as continued to change throughout history, and we cannot be sure that loopholes do not exist. It was once, suposedly, a common beleif that man could not break the sound barrier. I can provide other examples should you wish.

However, it is unessissary to travle at faster than light speed to travle between stars. The nearest star is less than five lightyears away, and for a species with far-reaching goals and a long lifespan, five or ten years might not be seen as to long a journey, considering the value that a whole other star system represents. And it is probably possible to travel very near lightspeed, using laser driven lightsails, or possibly fusion ramjet technology. Furthermore, it is possible that we could devellope the technology to slow someone's metabolism for a longer trip. I seem to recall some success with freezing and reviving a dog, for example.

As for the alien's motive for coming here, your snide comment about coming to "fly around mysteriously in front of someone with a phone camera" is rather simplistic. There are pleanty of reasons to explore a new solar system containing a vast array of new life forms and a developing space faring civilization. The sightings could be any number of things, from accident to delberate experimentation, to the aliens simply not giving a damn weather we see them or not.

Of course there are UFOs. There are UFOs all the time. You see them every day.

Then you figure out what they are, and they're no longer UFOs.

If you haven't caught my meaning here, I'm talking about the hijacking of a term that simply means "Unidentified Flying Object" to mean "Alien spacecraft." The first is the correct use of the term. The second is not.

As for alien spacecraft, I find it highly unlikely.

True, a UFO is simply an unidentified flying object. There are many of these (about 40 reported a day, I beleive I once heard), but of these I think about 9 in ten are explained, and the remainder are simply UFOs, not alien ships, until some explanation is found.

Ironically, if they were proved to be alien ships, they would no longer be UFOs in the correct usage of the word.

I don't believe faster than light travel is possible. I think it's wishful thinking to imagine that one day we will discover some magical loop-hole in the laws of physics that allows space opera to become reality.

On those grounds, I find it hard to believe aliens have ever visited earth - because if they did, it would be a long journey and they wouldn't come just to fly around mysteriously in front of someone with a phone camera for 30 seconds and then fuck off.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/07/28/warp-speed-engine.html

Considering they're aliens It could be that they're technical geniuses, but total idiots in other respects.

What you say? those noobs in MMOs are Aliens?

Aliens: How I fish for gold? I travel 200 light year for this?

"The surest sign of intelligent life out there is that none of it has tried to contact us."
This is my personal theory:
Human beings are being quarantined by aliens. I see no reason that aliens would want to establish contact with humans, given that humans can't even get along with other humans. Therefore, IMO, humans have been classified as something akin to a cancer. Human beings are a relatively young species, so it's not impossible for aliens to have developed technology to mask their existence from humans (my idea is something like a Dyson Sphere around our solar system, creating an intricate illusion of an "empty" universe).
Regarding U.F.Os, they are most likely technological experiments (IMO, Area 51 was an elaborate cover-up to keep the Soviets from knowing about the U.S. developing jet technology. This is plausible, considering that Area 51 lies within the United States Air Force's vast Nevada Test and Training Range).

Of course there are UFOs. There are UFOs all the time. You see them every day.

Then you figure out what they are, and they're no longer UFOs.

If you haven't caught my meaning here, I'm talking about the hijacking of a term that simply means "Unidentified Flying Object" to mean "Alien spacecraft." The first is the correct use of the term. The second is not.


Yes, we get it, that's about the 10th time someone's done it on this topic, it's not clever any more.

Anyways, if there is only one species of intelligent life on an alien's home planet, they may assume that they are the only intelligent life. They visit Earth (for whatever reasons they may have) and they see a bunch of (what appear to them) quite large birds (planes) and us in our termite-esque (I believe it's termites that make quite large towers, correct me if I'm wrong please ;D) skyscrapers. They have no idea whatsoever that we are an intelligent species and just assume that if we see them, we'll forget them in a matter of minutes anyways

"The surest sign of intelligent life out there is that none of it has tried to contact us."
This is my personal theory:
Human beings are being quarantined by aliens. I see no reason that aliens would want to establish contact with humans, given that humans can't even get along with other humans. Therefore, IMO, humans have been classified as something akin to a cancer. Human beings are a relatively young species, so it's not impossible for aliens to have developed technology to mask their existence from humans (my idea is something like a Dyson Sphere around our solar system, creating an intricate illusion of an "empty" universe).
Regarding U.F.Os, they are most likely technological experiments (IMO, Area 51 was an elaborate cover-up to keep the Soviets from knowing about the U.S. developing jet technology. This is plausible, considering that Area 51 lies within the United States Air Force's vast Nevada Test and Training Range).

Why this assumption that humans are so much below the galactic standard? It seems like humans either take it to one extreem or the other. Either we're made in God's image, and are the only intelligent life form in the Universe, and our nation, faith, and skin color is the best there is, or else we're so inferior that the rest of the Universe is expending a massive ammount of effort to quarintine us. Why the extreems? With no real evidence either way, doesn't it make more sense to assume we're fairly typical, rather than the one-in-a-million fluke?

I don't believe faster than light travel is possible. I think it's wishful thinking to imagine that one day we will discover some magical loop-hole in the laws of physics that allows space opera to become reality.

They said the same thing about heavier than air flight, breaking the sound barrier, and space flight. Seems like every time something is declared impossible it eventually gets done.

Yes, we get it, that's about the 10th time someone's done it on this topic, it's not clever any more.

Anyways, if there is only one species of intelligent life on an alien's home planet, they may assume that they are the only intelligent life. They visit Earth (for whatever reasons they may have) and they see a bunch of (what appear to them) quite large birds (planes) and us in our termite-esque (I believe it's termites that make quite large towers, correct me if I'm wrong please ;D) skyscrapers. They have no idea whatsoever that we are an intelligent species and just assume that if we see them, we'll forget them in a matter of minutes anyways

Now seriously, anyone who can build a starship will know the difference between metal and organic tissue, and will be able to differentiate between an organism and an artificial construct. They will probably even recognize some intelligence among us, but that doesn't mean they will see us as equals, or even creatures capable of negotiating with them.

Alien abduction stories are very intriuging in this respect, as, despite their usualy low credibilliy, they potentially offer insite into how these hypothetical visitors may veiw us. Personally I think the best comparison would be something like the relationship between humans and chimps. Basically, they recognize that we have some intelligence and can be comunicated with, but they don't open negotiations with our leaders because it simply doesn't occur to them as an option, any more than it would occure to us to recognize a tribe of Chimpanzees as a soverign nation. They may try to calm us during experimentation, they may recognize us as creatures with feelings, but they are not unwilling to perform tests on us.

So the aliens may talk to us, they may be protecting us, they may recognize our intelligence, but they would never think of us as equals, and they wouldn't ever think to hide their pressence from us, because we're simply not worth the effort. However, like Chimps and Humans, there may be more in common than we know.

Its all specualtion based on scant evidence of course, but its an interesting exercise for someone with an interest in political science or psychology. At least I think so;).

Why this assumption that humans are so much below the galactic standard? It seems like humans either take it to one extreem or the other. Either we're made in God's image, and are the only intelligent life form in the Universe, and our nation, faith, and skin color is the best there is, or else we're so inferior that the rest of the Universe is expending a massive ammount of effort to quarintine us. Why the extreems? With no real evidence either way, doesn't it make more sense to assume we're fairly typical, rather than the one-in-a-million fluke?

I think the assumption in this case stems from the fact that (hypothetically anyway) they got all the way here from wherever they came from, while we've only gotten to the moon (I'm only counting maned flights here, not probes or drones). Therefore they must be much more advanced than us.

I think the assumption in this case stems from the fact that (hypothetically anyway) they got all the way here from wherever they came from, while we've only gotten to the moon (I'm only counting maned flights here, not probes or drones). Therefore they must be much more advanced than us.
The Taliban had motor vehicals and automatic weapons. Are they more advanced socially and ethically than the typical stone age tribesman?

Why this assumption that humans are so much below the galactic standard? It seems like humans either take it to one extreem or the other. Either we're made in God's image, and are the only intelligent life form in the Universe, and our nation, faith, and skin color is the best there is, or else we're so inferior that the rest of the Universe is expending a massive ammount of effort to quarintine us. Why the extreems? With no real evidence either way, doesn't it make more sense to assume we're fairly typical, rather than the one-in-a-million fluke?


What galactic standard? Humans are dangerous, period. And if you were an alien, would you want a self-destructive species to gain access to technology beyond their understanding?
Okay, so humans are a relatively young species. But so far, we have proven ourselves to be dangerous and uncooperative. Progress mostly consists of better ways to kill other humans. If you were an alien, what would you think?

The Taliban had motor vehicals and automatic weapons. Are they more advanced socially and ethically than the typical stone age tribesman?

I wasn't responding to anything to do with social or ethical advancement, I was responding to why it is perceived that an alien race may find our species to be so mind bogglingly stupid as to be beneath notice.

Okay, so humans are a relatively young species.

You keep saying that the human species is "relatively young". Relative to WHAT exactly? What yardstick are you using? What other intelligent race are you comparing us to?

And if you were an alien, would you want a self-destructive species to gain access to technology beyond their understanding?

How in the world am I supposed to speak for aliens? Why does everyone think that aliens would probably be a lot like us, with similar thoughts, motivations, and perceptions, just shorter and grayer?

If alien intelligent life does exist, it is in all likelihood totally and utterly foreign to anything we've ever encountered. If we did run into intelligent life, we'd have a hard enough time even figuring out how to TALK to it. That is, if we even recognized it as intelligent in the first place.

The most I am allowed to say, by oath, that the concept in "Transformers," that we may be some way receiving technology for government/military use is not entirely an off the wall idea.

Even I am not sure, though. I know very little more than what I even just said, in truth, but I have heavy suspicion that perhaps, yes, there are aliens out there. Government Contact? Possibly, and that could be in any form - war, peace, galactic explorers or whatever.

My opinion on what imagining the scenario of meeting an alien life form would be like, including how it looked, talked, it's personality (if it possessed one!), their culture...?
Try imagining a different color.

Perhaps war is not a possibility? Perhaps the psyche of aliens does not make room for conflict? Or perhaps war is all they know, and the reason why we haven't come to war with them is that every alien is an individual, and they do not set aside internal-species strife for much longer than to trade technologies or whatever? (Or perhaps the same thing, in a tribal scenario, allowing for more technology?)
Of course, there is the scenario of many collections of aliens already in a Galactic Court of Peace of some sort, or that we may get caught up in a Galactic War in a Tabula Rasa scenario, and be conscripted as soldiers to whoever gets to us first.
Too many things must be considered.

Of course, when you consider the odds that even we exist, one must pretty much look at the stars and say, "I wonder who's out there?" but say, "How can anyone but us be anywhere?"
It's pretty darn unlikely for even humans to be existent, even with the, yes, trillions of heavenly bodies. We are either a statistical anomaly or an intentional creation.

You keep saying that the human species is "relatively young". Relative to WHAT exactly? What yardstick are you using? What other intelligent race are you comparing us to?

How in the world am I supposed to speak for aliens? Why does everyone think that aliens would probably be a lot like us, with similar thoughts, motivations, and perceptions, just shorter and grayer?


Well, compared to dinosaurs (over 160 million years), humans are relatively young (approx.200,000 years). Well, I assume we are talking about modern humans. Then there's the cockroach (between 354–295 million years), the shark (over 450–420 million years), the ant (between 110 and 130 million years ago)...

You misunderstood me. I did not ask you to speak on behalf of aliens. I was merely trying to raise points of common sense.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13472914&postcount=9

That's about all I have to say on the matter.

all sorts of things exist, that have little or nothing to do with what ANYone thinks they know about them. goes for gods, bigfoots, and our personal friends too.

big universe out there. none of em makes anything any less up to us then it would be if they didn't.

=^^=
.../\...

Of course, when you consider the odds that even we exist, one must pretty much look at the stars and say, "I wonder who's out there?" but say, "How can anyone but us be anywhere?"
It's pretty darn unlikely for even humans to be existent, even with the, yes, trillions of heavenly bodies. We are either a statistical anomaly or an intentional creation.

What odds that we exist ?
At the moment those odds can't be calculated, because we don't have anything to compare with. We havent discovered any planets yet which have (roughly) the same chemical makeup in the atmosphere as earth has. Beacause we haven't discovered any of those, our sample of life on terra compatible worlds is one, earth itself, calculating odds with a sample that small will not give us a relevant outcome. (the outcome would be: every earthlike planet has life on it)

Yet our milkyway has some 2-4 hundred billion stars in it, the chance of just one of those stars developing life as oposed to multiple stars devoloping life, points me in the direction of life not being all that rare. Ofcourse whether anywhere else has intelligent life is another question altogether.

I believe that they do exist, and that the government knows rather more about them than they will let on. Aliens intentions must be fairly benign, though, as any with the technology to reach us from so far away would I imagine have the ability to destroy/take over Earth very easily if they were so inclined.

DUMinaduminaduminadumina.....OOOEEEoooEEEoooEEEE... DUMinaduminaduminadumina... EEEOOOeeeoooeeeooo...



I don't care(that much) if alien spacecraft are buzzing us, I just want to see the new X-Files movie.

I prefer not to believe that aliens have nothing better to do here than molest us and kill livestock.

They want us real bad, but They don't want to look like sluts, so They won't go all the way on a first date (in geological time-frame). I mean, the whole probe thing is Their way of flirting. Give it a couple of hundreds of thousands of years and they'll be the philosophical equivalent of "hands up shirt".

I wasn't responding to anything to do with social or ethical advancement, I was responding to why it is perceived that an alien race may find our species to be so mind bogglingly stupid as to be beneath notice.

I'm sorry. I thought the conversation was about the possibility of aliens quarantining us because of our social inferiority.

The most I am allowed to say, by oath, that the concept in "Transformers," that we may be some way receiving technology for government/military use is not entirely an off the wall idea.

Even I am not sure, though. I know very little more than what I even just said, in truth, but I have heavy suspicion that perhaps, yes, there are aliens out there. Government Contact? Possibly, and that could be in any form - war, peace, galactic explorers or whatever.

My opinion on what imagining the scenario of meeting an alien life form would be like, including how it looked, talked, it's personality (if it possessed one!), their culture...?
Try imagining a different color.

Perhaps war is not a possibility? Perhaps the psyche of aliens does not make room for conflict? Or perhaps war is all they know, and the reason why we haven't come to war with them is that every alien is an individual, and they do not set aside internal-species strife for much longer than to trade technologies or whatever? (Or perhaps the same thing, in a tribal scenario, allowing for more technology?)
Of course, there is the scenario of many collections of aliens already in a Galactic Court of Peace of some sort, or that we may get caught up in a Galactic War in a Tabula Rasa scenario, and be conscripted as soldiers to whoever gets to us first.
Too many things must be considered.

Of course, when you consider the odds that even we exist, one must pretty much look at the stars and say, "I wonder who's out there?" but say, "How can anyone but us be anywhere?"
It's pretty darn unlikely for even humans to be existent, even with the, yes, trillions of heavenly bodies. We are either a statistical anomaly or an intentional creation.

The scale of the Universe is beyond human comprehension. There are, as I recall, about 400 billion stars in our galaxy. Multiply that by all the different galaxies out there, some smaller, but some larger. The odds aren't that long, considering how many different environments life can survive in here on Earth, and also the possibility of new kinds of life being discovered on other worlds.

Furthermore, you are ignoring the possibility of panspermia. This is the theory that asteroid or comet impacts could blast microscopic life forms into space on chunks of debris, which would then drift through space until intercepted by another world's gravitational pull. Because life adapts its environment, such as how microbes and plant life are responsible for Earth having so much oxygen, life could begin on one world and spread to many more over the past several billion years. I suppose such life would not technically be alien, as it would share a common origin, but it would likely be pretty damn strange. And yes, this theory as undergone laboratory testing, as we can prove that certain microbes are capable of being blasted into space, drifting through the void for millennia, and reentering another world's atmosphere. Of course, this would make proving life originated on Mars more difficult.

Regarding faster than light travel, there are two excellent rebuttals to that argument. The first is that our knowledge of physics as continued to change throughout history, and we cannot be sure that loopholes do not exist. It was once, suposedly, a common beleif that man could not break the sound barrier. I can provide other examples should you wish.

http://xkcd.com/240/

http://xkcd.com/240/

Your brilliant rebuttal was a link to cliche web comic. Try to do better.

Your brilliant rebuttal was a link to cliche web comic. Try to do better.

It's like arguing with religious people. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever to support your position. It is based entirely on wishful thinking.

It's like arguing with religious people. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever to support your position. It is based entirely on wishful thinking.

Wow, you just made a huge assumption about my personality, with zero evidence whatsoever. You mock me by posting a link rather than making the effort to write a post, and when challenged to make any effort at all to refute my points, you essentially say "I'm not going to bother because you're not going to listen". That is intellectually lazy, and for the record, was that an Ad hominum fallacy?

I know forums where that kind of attitude would probably get you banned. Sharpen up.

The scale of the Universe is beyond human comprehension. There are, as I recall, about 400 billion stars in our galaxy. Multiply that by all the different galaxies out there, some smaller, but some larger. The odds aren't that long, considering how many different environments life can survive in here on Earth, and also the possibility of new kinds of life being discovered on other worlds.

Furthermore, you are ignoring the possibility of panspermia. This is the theory that asteroid or comet impacts could blast microscopic life forms into space on chunks of debris, which would then drift through space until intercepted by another world's gravitational pull. Because life adapts its environment, such as how microbes and plant life are responsible for Earth having so much oxygen, life could begin on one world and spread to many more over the past several billion years. I suppose such life would not technically be alien, as it would share a common origin, but it would likely be pretty damn strange. And yes, this theory as undergone laboratory testing, as we can prove that certain microbes are capable of being blasted into space, drifting through the void for millennia, and reentering another world's atmosphere. Of course, this would make proving life originated on Mars more difficult.

well said

Whilst I doubt that aliens have visited to earth I can rule it out. Every story I have heard of it about some crack pot or attention staved individual can always make up a story.

But as for life existing beyond out plannet I am fairly certain it does. We can not get one clear picture of a plannet beyond our own star to determine this. If every star was to support the current known ratio of life giving planets of 1 (ie our sun to our earth) then there would be billions of alien species.

Wether these species are technologically advaced enough (or even care enough about us to visit) would be a huge additional step. Going on from this the difficulty of distance and therefor travel time may deter an alien species. It takes us currently years to reach mars with satellites let alone living things.

I just dont believe that the governments would have sucessfully covered up an alien landing for so long. This would be the highlight of anyones life who knew. The fact is that we have no credible source to prove that aliens have arrived on earth at any time.

Wow, you just made a huge assumption about my personality, with zero evidence whatsoever. You mock me by posting a link rather than making the effort to write a post, and when challenged to make any effort at all to refute my points, you essentially say "I'm not going to bother because you're not going to listen". That is intellectually lazy, and for the record, was that an Ad hominum fallacy?

Okay, then I'm sorry. But I'm afraid your post seriously rubbed me up the wrong way.

Your 'points' basically amount to the suggestion that our understanding of physics has been wrong before, therefore it is wrong now. While that in itself is not entirely unreasonable, the idea that it is wrong in such a specific way to allow interstellar travel, because we want to believe interstellar travel is possible and easy, is wishful thinking.

It's like believing that, just because gold can be buried somewhere, that if you start digging in your garden you'll eventually find some. It's more likely that there was never any gold there in the first place.

well said

Whilst I doubt that aliens have visited to earth I can rule it out. Every story I have heard of it about some crack pot or attention staved individual can always make up a story.

But as for life existing beyond out plannet I am fairly certain it does. We can not get one clear picture of a plannet beyond our own star to determine this. If every star was to support the current known ratio of life giving planets of 1 (ie our sun to our earth) then there would be billions of alien species.

Wether these species are technologically advaced enough (or even care enough about us to visit) would be a huge additional step. Going on from this the difficulty of distance and therefor travel time may deter an alien species. It takes us currently years to reach mars with satellites let alone living things.

I just dont believe that the governments would have sucessfully covered up an alien landing for so long. This would be the highlight of anyones life who knew. The fact is that we have no credible source to prove that aliens have arrived on earth at any time.

Just a little nitpick, but I believe its more like months than years to reach Mars. I could be wrong about that however.

If I'm understanding correctly, you don't know of any credible witnesses that have reported sightings. Well, there are quite a few, including astronaughts, air force officers, pilots, etc...

Not proof in and of itself perhaps, but enough to merit further investigation.

Okay, then I'm sorry. But I'm afraid your post seriously rubbed me up the wrong way.

Your 'points' basically amount to the suggestion that our understanding of physics has been wrong before, therefore it is wrong now. While that in itself is not entirely unreasonable, the idea that it is wrong in such a specific way to allow interstellar travel, because we want to believe interstellar travel is possible and easy, is wishful thinking.

It's like believing that, just because gold can be buried somewhere, that if you start digging in your garden you'll eventually find some. It's more likely that there was never any gold there in the first place.

Actually I merely said that it was possible that we are wrong, not that it is nessissarily the case. Since you've acknowledged that possibility yourself, I see no argument on this point.

However, even if we knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that we were stuck to sub-light speeds, it doesn't rule out the possibility of alien visitors. We might or might not be willing to undertake a long journey for sufficient gain, but we can't know it for the aliens because such would depend on their culture and psychology. Of course this is all hypothetical, as is much of this field of enquiry. I don't claim any of these suposisions as facts- merely as theories meriting further investigation.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/07/28/warp-speed-engine.html

Alcubierre's warp drive theory has been around for donkey's years, and as far as I'm aware, is pretty much discredited.

Well I believe that alien reptilian creatures came here thousands of years ago and now their blood line passed to the royal family causing the world to...Nah I'm just yankin' yer chains.

Alcubierre's warp drive theory has been around for donkey's years, and as far as I'm aware, is pretty much discredited.

Discredited by whom? That article was from July 28, 2008 and not on national Enquirer.com


Anyway I am not saying that it's proof of faster than light travel, but pointing it out as a possibility being thrown around by the brainiacs - so what is your expertise in this matter anyway?

Looking at some of your responses to others, you are being petty towards people have a different opinion than you. Why is that? Everyone should take your word on things and not think for themselves? Or you assume that they cannot make a rational decision because they haven't come to the same conclusions as you? It's just wishful thinking because you say so? Because we can't hand over solid proof of things we think might be possible? Everyone here is offering ONLY opinions, including you. Where did you get that high horse from?


I've seen things that cannot be easily explained away which is why I have an open mind about possibilities. it has little (note that I did not say 'nothing') to do with wishful thinking, but of course it's fun to imagine.

I'm sorry. I thought the conversation was about the possibility of aliens quarantining us because of our social inferiority.

For the past few days I've had two mode, hyped up on decongestants and unable to sleep or groggy from antihistamines. I could very well be confused.

What you say? those noobs in MMOs are Aliens?

Aliens: How I fish for gold? I travel 200 light year for this?
It's more likely than you think.
"The surest sign of intelligent life out there is that none of it has tried to contact us."
This is my personal theory:
Human beings are being quarantined by aliens. I see no reason that aliens would want to establish contact with humans, given that humans can't even get along with other humans. Therefore, IMO, humans have been classified as something akin to a cancer. Human beings are a relatively young species, so it's not impossible for aliens to have developed technology to mask their existence from humans (my idea is something like a Dyson Sphere around our solar system, creating an intricate illusion of an "empty" universe).
You're assuming that aliens are paragons of morality, protecting the universe from the poor undeveloped humans who would only start wars all over the place.

What galactic standard? Humans are dangerous, period. And if you were an alien, would you want a self-destructive species to gain access to technology beyond their understanding?
Okay, so humans are a relatively young species. But so far, we have proven ourselves to be dangerous and uncooperative. Progress mostly consists of better ways to kill other humans. If you were an alien, what would you think?
I can make a lot of money selling these people weapons.
Well, compared to dinosaurs (over 160 million years), humans are relatively young (approx.200,000 years). Well, I assume we are talking about modern humans. Then there's the cockroach (between 354–295 million years), the shark (over 450–420 million years), the ant (between 110 and 130 million years ago)...

You misunderstood me. I did not ask you to speak on behalf of aliens. I was merely trying to raise points of common sense.

Comparing humans to dinosaurs is stupid. Dinosaurs are dozens if not hundreds of different species, not all of which existed at the same time.

Where did you get that high horse from?

Same place as you, by the look of it. Or does someone else being on a 'high horse' give you free rein to be as condescending as you like?

I believe that they do exist, and that the government knows rather more about them than they will let on. Aliens intentions must be fairly benign, though, as any with the technology to reach us from so far away would I imagine have the ability to destroy/take over Earth very easily if they were so inclined.

Natural selection may also favor peaceful and cooperative species reaching that level of technology, as a violent civilization with nuclear power, bioengineering, etc, might well keep self-destructing before it could ever reach that level of technical sophistication. Also, launching a mission to another solar system might well prove more practical to a species already predisposed towards international cooperation.

I can make a lot of money selling these people weapons.


If you were an arms merchant dealing in the likes of billion dollar fifth generation stealth bombers and missile submarines, would you be selling them to some podunk warlord in a backwater of Africa who likely doesn't even have a million to rub together?

Comparing humans to dinosaurs is stupid. Dinosaurs are dozens if not hundreds of different species, not all of which existed at the same time.

500-plus officially discovered, I think. But probably several thousand total at the least. Hell, there are 8-9000 bird species just in our present time. We just haven't found them all yet. Comparing that to our one species is indeed grotesquely false, though a common mistake.

Why this assumption that humans are so much below the galactic standard? It seems like humans either take it to one extreem or the other. Either we're made in God's image, and are the only intelligent life form in the Universe, and our nation, faith, and skin color is the best there is, or else we're so inferior that the rest of the Universe is expending a massive ammount of effort to quarintine us. Why the extreems? With no real evidence either way, doesn't it make more sense to assume we're fairly typical, rather than the one-in-a-million fluke?

Not that I want to get into another argument in this thread, but I think it was Arthur C. Clarke who said something interesting on this issue; "we will find apes or angels, but not men."

Given the age of the universe, odds are that any species we encounter will be millions of years more or less advanced than us. It's entirely possible that alien civilisations were already surpassing our level of technological development before life on earth even began.

Regarding faster than light travel, there are two excellent rebuttals to that argument. The first is that our knowledge of physics as continued to change throughout history, and we cannot be sure that loopholes do not exist. It was once, suposedly, a common beleif that man could not break the sound barrier. I can provide other examples should you wish.


Actually, no. The belief was that man could not break the sound barrier and survive. And there are a fair number of things that broke the sound barrier before us. Nothing we have found has broken the speed of light.

Actually, no. The belief was that man could not break the sound barrier and survive. And there are a fair number of things that broke the sound barrier before us. Nothing we have found has broken the speed of light.

I seem to recall hearing about some form of subatomic particle . . .

I seem to recall hearing about some form of subatomic particle . . .

Tachyons are hypothetical at best.

I don't know if they were "aliens", but they certainly weren't, by any stretch of imagination, conventional flying vehicles. Either time.

If you were an arms merchant dealing in the likes of billion dollar fifth generation stealth bombers and missile submarines, would you be selling them to some podunk warlord in a backwater of Africa who likely doesn't even have a million to rub together?

I could sell him now-defunct weapons that I can get for half nothing, but are still superior to anything he has, and charge damn near anything I want.

I could sell him now-defunct weapons that I can get for half nothing, but are still superior to anything he has, and charge damn near anything I want.

This is a inter-stellar merchant we're talking about. Billions of star systems are there for the taking. He could probably tow in an asteroid from a local star system that would be worth more than the entire Earth itself. What would be the point of selling to backwards savages with nothing to offer of value but raw minerals which you can get for less effort?

This is a inter-stellar merchant we're talking about. Billions of star systems are there for the taking. He could probably tow in an asteroid from a local star system that would be worth more than the entire Earth itself. What would be the point of selling to backwards savages with nothing to offer of value but raw minerals which you can get for less effort?

It's cheaper than doing the mining yourself?

Not that I want to get into another argument in this thread, but I think it was Arthur C. Clarke who said something interesting on this issue; "we will find apes or angels, but not men."

Given the age of the universe, odds are that any species we encounter will be millions of years more or less advanced than us. It's entirely possible that alien civilisations were already surpassing our level of technological development before life on earth even began.

Unless most technological species don't last long. You also make the assumption that long will inherently lead to a more sophisitcated and civilized nature. As we have only our one primitive species as an example, you cannot draw such conclusions. And if alien encounter stories are real, the alien's willingness to experiment on us, mutilate us, and impregnate us suggest that they are hardly paragons of virtue.

This is a inter-stellar merchant we're talking about. Billions of star systems are there for the taking. He could probably tow in an asteroid from a local star system that would be worth more than the entire Earth itself. What would be the point of selling to backwards savages with nothing to offer of value but raw minerals which you can get for less effort?

We have plenty to offer besides raw minerals. Protein, for one.

We have plenty to offer besides raw minerals. Protein, for one.

Gas giants, asteroids, etc, are extreemly common. Even habitable worlds can be constructed or terraformed by a sufficiently advanced civilization.

The only resource I can think of which would be likely to warrant aliens traveling here would be the presence of a new and unique biosphere.

Zecharias Sitchin is my Lord. :hail:

Yes, I believe space aliens from Nibiru have visited Earth, and are responsible for the existence of mankind, and will be responsible for the destruction to come on December 21st, 2012, even though Nibiru won't return until the 3500's.

Im an alien

Anyone for probing?? If so stand out on your balcony at night naked and keep on flashing a light. Youll be "abducted" by someone eventually

UFOs do indeed exist, UFO means Unidentified Flying Object; anything flying through the air that defies absolute definition is a UFO.


As for alien species and abductions/molestations, crop circles, and messing with live stock thats easy to explain. If there really are intersteller travelers coming to earth to do afermentioned deeds they are teenagers and drunks looking for kicks. I mean, who else would perpetrate such antics?

UFOs do indeed exist, UFO means Unidentified Flying Object; anything flying through the air that defies absolute definition is a UFO.


As for alien species and abductions/molestations, crop circles, and messing with live stock thats easy to explain. If there really are intersteller travelers coming to earth to do afermentioned deeds they are teenagers and drunks looking for kicks. I mean, who else would perpetrate such antics?

a-men!, and yes, its mostly our own local teenagers and drunks pulling such shinanigans.

the real deal has other and more subtle intrests. but joy riding interstellar brats are not inconceivable.

This is a inter-stellar merchant we're talking about. Billions of star systems are there for the taking. He could probably tow in an asteroid from a local star system that would be worth more than the entire Earth itself. What would be the point of selling to backwards savages with nothing to offer of value but raw minerals which you can get for less effort?

The amusement factor? (Sh*ts and Giggles) to watch them (us) use them?

assuming the alien has no morals or ethics towards us...

or...
sell these for a pittance, with intention of coming back once we can use / afford better ones...

Unless most technological species don't last long. You also make the assumption that long will inherently lead to a more sophisitcated and civilized nature.

If not 'Apes or Angels', the alternative is 'Apes or Corpses'. If technological species do not last for long (which is a pretty huge assumption), then that reduces the chances of us encountering them at all to next to nothing.

For example, life on earth has existed for 3.7 billion years, before humans evolved. If we pessimistically give our technological civilisation a lifespan of a mere 50,000 years, the earth will still be here for at least another 5 billion years after we are gone.

If aliens were to visit earth, there is only a 1 in 174,000 chance that they would encounter our civilisation. More likely, they would either encounter the primitive life forms that preceded us, or the wreckage of the earth that is left when we are gone.

Given the odds, there would have to be millions of civilisations existing in our galaxy before even a handful were at the same level as us at the same time.

As for the assumption that technological civilisations would become more sophisticated over millions of years of existence, I think it's more reasonable than to assume they wouldn't.

Edit: It occurs to me the comment about being more sophisticated and civilised suggests you may be taking the 'Angels' monicker too literally. By 'Angels' I (or rather, A. C. Clarke) only mean that their level of technological development would be so great that they would appear virtually godlike in their capabilities. It wasn't a reflection on how morally upstanding they are.

We have plenty to offer besides raw minerals. Protein, for one.

Easier to start up a mega-chicken farm or what have you in an out of the way planet or asteroid, and less fuss too. Face it. Any interstellar space faring race will have far more resources at its disposal from a galaxy of planets than one measly planet populated by monkeys who haven't even bothered to go to another planet in their own solar system.

The amusement factor? (Sh*ts and Giggles) to watch them (us) use them?


This one, maybe.


or...
sell these for a pittance, with intention of coming back once we can use / afford better ones...

What sort of dumbass arms dealer would do that? Assuming that anything they have is light years ahead of what we have, he'll just come back to a cinder world.

or he could sell us some sort of engine that assists us to exploit this solar system... the fee could be 5% of GNP? (GWP maybe?)