NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes, I know, everyone is telling different. From sloppy newspapers to serious scientific studies.

But...

How many men would go to the police when they are raped by a marvellous Scandinavian blonde with big boobies? Not that many, right?

So, is it not possible that women rape at the same level as men?

It's possible, I suppose, but I think it's quite improbable. I'm not saying women never rape men, that would be silly. And it probably happen more often than the statistics say, what with the fragile male ego. But equal? I doubt it.

Is it rape day on NSG or something?

:rolleyes:

cyber rape counts?

I can guarantee you that no woman has ever raped anyone in the UK. Serious sexual assaults, sure, but definitely no rape.

I'd say not at the same rate necessarily, but a significant number certainly. It's increadibly difficult to estimate given the many barriers to reporting such an assault (male rape generally is dramatcially underreported). And of course a perception that "a man connot be raped by a women" which may add to the victim's confusion as to if he even has a case to report to the police.

Nonetheless, from the evidence I've seen and the psychological research into female offending generally, I'd say it happens, but at a significantly lower rate.

I can guarantee you that no woman has ever raped anyone in the UK. Serious sexual assaults, sure, but definitely no rape.

I beg to differ. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/08/usa)

I beg to differ. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/08/usa)

And you'd be wrong.

Note that a) British law makes it impossible for a woman to rape a man; women don't have penises, so women can't rape, and b) she was charged with false imprisonment and possession of a replica firearm.

Is it rape day on NSG or something?

DrunkenDove, now you're just being silly. Every day is Rape Day in the happy sunshine land of NSG!

Note that a) British law makes it impossible for a woman to rape a man; women don't have penises, so women can't rape

And why exactly should we abide by such an awful definition?

And why exactly should we abide by such an awful definition?

Because I referred to the UK and that is the definition of rape in the UK?

Go ahead, find me a single woman ever convicted of rape in the United Kingdom.

Because I referred to the UK and that is the definition of rape in the UK?

No, it isn't. That's the legal definition of rape in the UK. It doesn't correspond to the actual meaning of the word.

If the UK's laws defined away rape entirely, would you claim that no one is ever raped in the UK? What a wonderful way to solve problems....

I would report it, supposing the incident found me when I did not have my knife with me.

How many men would go to the police when they are raped by a marvellous Scandinavian blonde with big boobies?

By your logic, how many women would go to the police when raped by George Clooney or Brad Pitt lookalikes? Not many, eh? Looks have nothing to do with rape. It's about power and/or humiliation. It's assault on your body when you're powerless to prevent it.

Given that men have to be willing participants to play at all, the very concept of female rape (defined as vaginal penetration by the man, not just toe sucking or some other fetish) seems most unlikely.

Given that men have to be willing participants to play at all,

Since when? We are just as susceptible to imprisonment and weaponry as women are.

the very concept of female rape (defined as vaginal penetration by the man, not just toe sucking or some other fetish)

That's a pretty arbitrary definition.

Yes, I know, everyone is telling different. From sloppy newspapers to serious scientific studies.

But...

How many men would go to the police when they are raped by a marvellous Scandinavian blonde with big boobies? Not that many, right?

So, is it not possible that women rape at the same level as men?

Sadly, nor only are these rare, they keep missing my house entirely.:(

Since when? We are just as susceptible to imprisonment and weaponry as women are.
Can you be forced to get an erection against your will? Doesn't work on me. There's a limit to the autonomic reactions possible, and it's probably quite a bit more difficult to force sexual intercourse when the man isn't erect.

If you want to include oral in the definition, then I'll grant you it's possible. However, I'm pretty sure that forced oral isn't classified as 'rape', but rather 'sexual assault'. A quick Google shows several definitions that specify 'penetration', but since they aren't NSG, they don't go into the gory details.

Because I referred to the UK and that is the definition of rape in the UK?

Go ahead, find me a single woman ever convicted of rape in the United Kingdom.

Yep, you're correct - the legal definition under the sexual offences act 2003 s.1 is if the vagina, anus or mouth are penetrated by the PENIS, that there is no consent from the victim, and that the "wrongdoer" has no reason to believe there was any consent. It's not UK law though, it's English law. There's no such thing as UK law.

forced oral is rape, if it's with a penis. Forced oral on an object is assault by penetration.

Oh and PS, this thread is fucking stupid.

Yes, I know, everyone is telling different. From sloppy newspapers to serious scientific studies.

But...

How many men would go to the police when they are raped by a marvellous Scandinavian blonde with big boobies? Not that many, right?

So, is it not possible that women rape at the same level as men?

Great. You've made me more scared of the opposite sex :mad::eek::p *goes to board windows and doors only find that I have already done it earlier at least 3 times*

Can you be forced to get an erection against your will? Doesn't work on me.

Yes. For most people, arousal is involuntary.

If a woman is wet, does that mean it doesn't count as rape?

I can guarantee you that no woman has ever raped anyone in the UK. Serious sexual assaults, sure, but definitely no rape.
By the same standards a quick browse of Wiki would lead you to believe that no one has ever raped anyone in Michigan, as they use the term "criminal sexual conduct".

No, it isn't. That's the legal definition of rape in the UK. It doesn't correspond to the actual meaning of the word.

Well, until you can find another definition of rape that is in force in the UK and used to prosecute people for the crime that's the one we're going to have to go with. Rape is a crime punishable through the criminal justice system, and that is how the system defines it.

Women can be guilty of Assault by Penetration, which carries the same sentence as Rape, and Sexual Assault, which doesn't, but they cannot be found guilty of rape. Therefore, women cannot rape men.

If the UK's laws defined away rape entirely, would you claim that no one is ever raped in the UK? What a wonderful way to solve problems....

Yes. I would use whatever term was chosen to describe the crime instead. In that case to call it Rape would be incorrect.

Therefore, women cannot rape men.

They can if they're ladyboys

Well, until you can find another definition of rape that is in force in the UK

UK law does not exist. Please stop calling it UK law. English.

So let me get this straight... there is absolutely no article to discuss, no study that shows anything like the title of the thread is true....

Right. Ok.

In the attempt to have a serious discussion despite these minor flaws -- I could see that it is possible for a woman to rape a man via assault by penetration. I simply think it is enormously unlikely, and hope that I am NOT wrong on that.

I think it could be possible for a male to be somehow restrained and forced into penetrative sex where an object is used to penetrate the male.

No, an object penetrating someone is assault by penetration (s.2 SOA 2003)

Does the law exist only in England, or does it apply to Wales, Scotland, and Ireland as well?

(curious)

Yes. For most people, arousal is involuntary.
There's an element that's involuntary, but fear or terror can counter that quite easily, also involuntarily. Also, what is arousing about being raped?

If a woman is wet, does that mean it doesn't count as rape?
The definition is based on penetration, not arousal level. A non-aroused woman can be penetrated almost as easily as an aroused one. Don't waste my time with strawmen.

Can you be forced to get an erection against your will?

Um, yes. So can most men.

Well, until you can find another definition of rape that is in force in the UK and used to prosecute people for the crime that's the one we're going to have to go with.

Only if we're trying people for crimes.

The legal definition of rape is relevant in legal contexts. It is not relevant in other contexts. This is precisely how legal definitions of rape can be critiqued... just because it's the law doesn't mean it makes sense.

Rape is a crime punishable through the criminal justice system

But that is not only what it is. Rape exists whether or not the legal system recognizes it. Indeed, rape exists even if there is no legal system. If we had no laws at all, would you really claim that nobody rapes anyone else?

Yes. I would use whatever term was chosen to describe the crime instead.

So you always refer to illegal behavior by the relevant legal term? Really?

Yep, you're correct - the legal definition under the sexual offences act 2003 s.1 is if the vagina, anus or mouth are penetrated by the PENIS, that there is no consent from the victim, and that the "wrongdoer" has no reason to believe there was any consent.

If you look at an earlier thread dealing with a woman's liability for being raped you'll see that I gave a fairly lengthy explanation of Rape under the Sexual Offences Act.

It's not UK law though, it's English law. There's no such thing as UK law.

No, it's UK law. While the Sexual Offences Act 2003 applies to England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have the same definitions of Rape (if not worded the same), although Scotland restricts it to penetration of the vagina. That women can't rape men is law across the UK, enforced through differing means, but that is a UK-wide law.

Again, it is impossible for a woman to rape a man in the UK.

It should also be noted that the Scottish Parliament is considering a Bill that is worded similarly to the Sexual Offences Act 2003, and extends rape to cover penetration of the mouth or anus.

Does the law exist only in England, or does it apply to Wales, Scotland, and Ireland as well?

(curious)

The Rape definition in the Sexual Offences Act 2003 extends to England and Wales, but Scotland has the same law regarding a woman raping a man, and Northern Ireland has even more arcane laws regarding Rape.

There's an element that's involuntary, but fear or terror can counter that quite easily, also involuntarily. Also, what is arousing about being raped?

Just because you find someone attractive doesn't mean that you consent to having sex with them. An attractive woman could quite easily arouse me but it doesn't mean that I want to sleep with her. Some women orgasm during rape, so it is possible to for a person's body to respond to the sexual attack without consent.

1,011 voters.

Is this for real? If so I must say it is the most amount of votes I have ever seen.

And yes women do rape men, does it happen as often as the other way around? Who knows? I don't.

UK law does not exist. Please stop calling it UK law. English.

...No.

Until one of the jurisdictions that operate in the UK makes it legally possible for a woman to rape a man it remains a UK wide law that it is impossible for a woman to rape a man.

If you look at an earlier thread dealing with a woman's liability for being raped you'll see that I gave a fairly lengthy explanation of Rape under the Sexual Offences Act.

No, it's UK law. While the Sexual Offences Act 2003 applies to England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have the same definitions of Rape (if not worded the same), although Scotland restricts it to penetration of the vagina. That women can't rape men is law across the UK, enforced through differing means, but that is a UK-wide law.

Again, it is impossible for a woman to rape a man in the UK.

It should also be noted that the Scottish Parliament is considering a Bill that is worded similarly to the Sexual Offences Act 2003, and extends rape to cover penetration of the mouth or anus.

haha, I have a law degree, I have no idea why you're trying to tell ME about law! Either way - UK law does not exist - that's like me saying, well it's not allowed to smoke dope on the streets of any european country - it's illegal under European law - it's bull, because it's illegal under different laws - EU law has NOTHING to do with it, the same way that a non existing body of UK law has nothing to do with England & Wales, NI and Scottish law. It's not impossible for a woman to rape a man in the UK - gender reassignment and women who have been born with penises present problems to your little theory. I don't care about your explaination of the SOA - I know exactly what is contained within it.

1,011 voters.

Is this for real? If so I must say it is the most amount of votes I have ever seen.

And yes women do rape men, does it happen as often as the other way around? Who knows? I don't.

I suspect moderator intervention.

No, an object penetrating someone is assault by penetration (s.2 SOA 2003)

Who was this in reference to?

...No.

Until one of the jurisdictions that operate in the UK makes it legally possible for a woman to rape a man it remains a UK wide law that it is impossible for a woman to rape a man.

You really are not looking at this issue properly are you? I hope to god you're not either a) a lawyer, or b) are hoping to be one, because I sure to god wouldn't want you to work for me.

Who was this in reference to?
if you opened your eyes, you would see it was the post directly above the said quoted material.

haha, I have a law degree

No you don't, you silly monkey.

haha, I have a law degree, I have no idea why you're trying to tell ME about law!

Yeah, and I'm the Queen of Sheba, but you don't see me shouting about it.

Either way - UK law does not exist - that's like me saying, well it's not allowed to smoke dope on the streets of any european country - it's illegal under European law - it's bull, because it's illegal under different laws - EU law has NOTHING to do with it, the same way that a non existing body of UK law has nothing to do with England & Wales, NI and Scottish law.

If you read back you will note that I don't actually mention UK law. I'm fairly careful about wording it as "the law in the UK", or simply as "in the UK".

In fact, until you came along I hadn't mentioned the Sexual Offences Act, because I'm perfectly aware that NI and Scotland have different law, but I am also perfectly aware that they come to the same conclusion with regards to the ability of a woman to rape a man. That is why it is perfectly correct to refer to "the law in the UK", or "in the UK".

Once I referred to it as "British law", which is still correct as I didn't narrow it down to a particular Act of Parliament. You were the first to introduce the Sexual Offences Act to this debate, and it is you that assumed that was the law I was referring to.

It's not impossible for a woman to rape a man in the UK - gender reassignment and women who have been born with penises present problems to your little theory.

Not really. By the time they can be recognised by the Gender Recognition Panel as women they have had to have transitioned for two years. By this point they will be entirely impotent as a result of the hormone therapy, and their penis will have shrunk by a noticeable amount, making it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for them to rape anybody.

I don't care about your explaination of the SOA - I know exactly what is contained within it.

Have a medal.

You really are not looking at this issue properly are you? I hope to god you're not either a) a lawyer, or b) are hoping to be one, because I sure to god wouldn't want you to work for me.

I'm sorry, but you are the one that brought the Sexual Offences Act into this, so you are the one who is assuming that is the only legal definition I am referring to. I, unlike you, apparently, am fully aware of the law in Scotland, and the law in NI, and don't have to assume that when someone talks about definitions of rape in the UK they are referring to the Sexual Offences Act.

I think it is fair to say that when all three jurisdictions agree on a point of law that it is a UK wide law. The differences in wording, phrasing, or associated parts of the crime don't change the fact that it is legally impossible for a woman to rape a man in the UK.

that's impossible a woman forcing to sexually assault a man?.. is that even possible?

that's impossible a woman forcing to sexually assault a man?.. is that even possible?

Yes, it is easier to sexually assault than you think, sometimes I do it inadvertently. Even though I am a man and not in fact, a woman, I'm sure a woman could manage to sexually assault a man.

that's impossible a woman forcing to sexually assault a man?.. is that even possible?

If you woke up to find a woman sucking you off, or a woman masturbating using your hand what else would you call it?

If you woke up to find a woman sucking you off, or a woman masturbating using your hand what else would you call it?

A better than average start of the day.

A better than average start of the day.

What if you were in a long term relationship, or were married, and some random woman is doing this?

What if you were in a long term relationship, or were married, and some random woman is doing this?

Nothing short of a miracle.

The legal definition of rape is relevant in legal contexts. It is not relevant in other contexts. This is precisely how legal definitions of rape can be critiqued... just because it's the law doesn't mean it makes sense.

Exactly. The whole point of sticking to such a rigidly legalistic approach was to highlight the absurdity of the law on Rape in the UK.

What if you were in a long term relationship, or were married, and some random woman is doing this?

I am married, and that would be disturbing, but since I AM married, I make it a habit of not sleeping with random women.

I am married, and that would be disturbing, but since I AM married, I make it a habit of not sleeping with random women.

Who said anything about sleeping with random women?

Waking up to find a random woman doing that is a different matter.

If you woke up to find a woman sucking you off, or a woman masturbating using your hand what else would you call it?

Gz, why handjobs or blowjobs? In the nearby thread they're discussing whether a man should let his wife to buttfuck him with a strap-on dildo if she wants.

Now, how much would you like THAT?

Yes, that, and you know it happens and many women enjoy it.

Here's your "a better than average start of the day" on a silver platter.

Gz, why handjobs or blowjobs? In the nearby thread they're discussing whether a man should let his wife to buttfuck him with a strap-on dildo if she wants.

Now, how much would you like THAT?

Me, personally? Probably quite a lot ;)

Does unzipping someone's jeans and giving them a blow job count? Because I know a woman who did that to some guy by surprise without him asking. He wasn't angry, he was pretty pleased.

Does unzipping someone's jeans and giving them a blow job count? Because I know a woman who did that to some guy by surprise without him asking. He wasn't angry, he was pretty pleased.

It's only rape if you say "No." :D


Does law in England or the UK even matter in reference to what rape technically is? You're meaning to tell me that the law in a union of four relatively small countries has any say in this? If we want to use a large modern legal system to define rape, shouldn't we be discussing the differing definitions of rape in state laws in the US?

Can you be forced to get an erection against your will? Doesn't work on me. It absolutely works on you. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnal_penile_tumescence)
Not to mention that rape doesn't require anyone to have an erection.

This thread is ridiculous.

Women can certainly rape men, but all evidence suggests that far fewer women rape men than vice versa. Attractive rapists are still rapists, and it's beyond offensive to suggest otherwise.

Attractive rapists are still rapists, and it's beyond offensive to suggest otherwise.
Oh, come on! Rape is just a bit of harmless genital stimulation, surprise fun! The only possible problems are when it gets spoiled by the face of the one who does it.

I can guarantee you that no woman has ever raped anyone in the UK. Serious sexual assaults, sure, but definitely no rape.

Gee, you sound like you're in law school:fluffle:

A better than average start of the day.
So if you woke up and found a woman using a huge dildo on your ass, would you say the same?

Or if you knew that your wife would divorce you if she saw you?

Does unzipping someone's jeans and giving them a blow job count?
Yes. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/apr/28/2)

This thread is ridiculous.

Women can certainly rape men, but all evidence suggests that far fewer women rape men than vice versa. Attractive rapists are still rapists, and it's beyond offensive to suggest otherwise.

Agreed.

My God. Another thread teleported in from planet dumbass. Men rape more. A lot more. Men tend to be stronger than women, and thus are more able to rape them than the other way round. Though its difficult to prove, quite a lot of people also believe that male sex drive is stronger, and thus it may be more likely that "frustrated" males will force themselves on women rather than the other way round. Plus, due to the very nature of the biology its easier for men to rape. If the man doesn't get an erection, its quite difficult for a woman to get very far with sexing them.

If the man doesn't get an erection, its quite difficult for a woman to get very far with sexing them.

Ever heard of dildos ?

And hell - a woman playing with all your private parts while you wish to be faithful to your wife/gf/bf/doggie/whatever is not exactly a nice psychological experience.

Ever heard of dildos ?

Ah, I was thinking of old-school penis-vagina sex. Yes, anal rape could indeed be done that way. Fair point, though that requires premeditation, which dramatically reduces the number of people who would rape relative to the numbers of men. My other points still stand though.

And hell - a woman playing with all your private parts while you wish to be faithful to your wife/gf/bf/doggie/whatever is not exactly a nice psychological experience.

While this indeed wouldn't be a "nice psychological experience" its also not rape so a bit irrelevant.

Erm?

Could do with any level of statistics at all to back up your OP, really...

*edits*

Some excellent response on the polls, I think every lurker ever must have chipped in :D

The sort of chauvinistic crap being trotted out in this thread (all men want sex all the time; if you're aroused, you're automatically willing; etc) is exactly why most males never report being raped. These arguments are offensive and obnoxious, and they're also the same sort of arguments that are used to accuse women of "asking for it."

Women raping men is quite possible. Clearly certain people in this thread have never seen Schoolgirlrape.swf :p

The sort of chauvinistic crap being trotted out in this thread (all men want sex all the time; if you're aroused, you're automatically willing; etc) is exactly why most males never report being raped. These arguments are offensive and obnoxious, and they're also the same sort of arguments that are used to accuse women of "asking for it."

QF fucking T.

The sort of chauvinistic crap being trotted out in this thread (all men want sex all the time; if you're aroused, you're automatically willing; etc) is exactly why most males never report being raped. These arguments are offensive and obnoxious, and they're also the same sort of arguments that are used to accuse women of "asking for it."

So the sexist pendulum swings both ways, then? The same arguments that harm women also leave a few marks on men?

If nothing else, this thread has fantastic poll results.

Because I referred to the UK and that is the definition of rape in the UK?

Go ahead, find me a single woman ever convicted of rape in the United Kingdom.Well, I found one guy in the Commonwealth who was 'raped' by a wombat.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1583051/Man-said-%27wombat-rape%27-led-to-accent-change.html

And you'd be wrong.

Note that a) British law makes it impossible for a woman to rape a man; women don't have penises, so women can't rape, and b) she was charged with false imprisonment and possession of a replica firearm.

Women can't rape other women in the U.K.?

If nothing else, this thread has fantastic poll results.

Vox populi, baby.

I just raped Latin right there.

Well, I found one guy in the Commonwealth who was 'raped' by a wombat.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1583051/Man-said-%27wombat-rape%27-led-to-accent-change.html

Everything about that is pure lol.

From the claim itself.

To the redacting of the claim because "the wombat pulled out and I didn't hurt my bum"

To being found guilty of "wasting everyone's time"

To the judge asking him not to do it again.

Says it all right here (http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp02012003.shtml)

Well, I found one guy in the Commonwealth who was 'raped' by a wombat.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1583051/Man-said-%27wombat-rape%27-led-to-accent-change.html

So, not the UK, and not a woman?

Nice work, Sherlock.

Women can't rape other women in the U.K.?

Nope.

.

Yes, I know, everyone is telling different. From sloppy newspapers to serious scientific studies.

But...

How many men would go to the police when they are raped by a marvellous Scandinavian blonde with big boobies? Not that many, right?

So, is it not possible that women rape at the same level as men?

I wouldn't give a shit what she looked like. If I am raped, then I'm raped, and I go to the police about it, pure and simple.

Whether they'd listen to me or not is the real question.

Can you be forced to get an erection against your will? Doesn't work on me. There's a limit to the autonomic reactions possible, and it's probably quite a bit more difficult to force sexual intercourse when the man isn't erect.

If you want to include oral in the definition, then I'll grant you it's possible. However, I'm pretty sure that forced oral isn't classified as 'rape', but rather 'sexual assault'. A quick Google shows several definitions that specify 'penetration', but since they aren't NSG, they don't go into the gory details.

Because we all know the only way to rape a man is to do something involving his penis.

Men can be raped anally as well. This happens quite a lot in prison, though generally from other men. But it can be done by women too. Fisting and/or strap-ons come to mind here.

Can you be forced to get an erection against your will? Doesn't work on me. There's a limit to the autonomic reactions possible, and it's probably quite a bit more difficult to force sexual intercourse when the man isn't erect.

An erection can also be caused by other strong emotions, like fear or shame. Especially with young men/boys - hence why so many get an erection when they have to give a speech in front of the class or are examined by a doctor.

everyone has been raped by capitolism, marxism, and their local chaimber of commerce, along with fanatacism and the romatacizing and rewarding of aggressiveness, reguardless of what idiology, belief or economics it pretends to be and use as an excuse.

=^^=
.../\...

Well imagine the scene. A friggin' strong woman ties a man down...turns him on and starts having sex with him. What will the man do? COMPLAIN? Not unless he was commited to celibacy (e.g Catholic Priest...I think). Even then they will enjoy it, they are humans too you know :P.