NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just thinking of something the other day, and it got me thinking about how fair (or in this case, perhaps not) society is these days. Consider the following scenario:

You have a male pizza delivery person delivering pizza to a house, with a female inside. The female is reasonably attracted to the male pizza delivery person, invites him inside and offers to do the deed (imagine that there would be no effects on his job). Now imagine that the roles were reversed; that it was a female pizza delivery person and a male inside the house. In the latter scenario, the guy would be charged with either one of sexual harassment or attempted rape, while in the former scenario, any charge of sexual harassment or attempted rape would more than likely be laughed off by the judiciary.

Now is this really fair? I think not - how about you?

It's not fair in the least.

Wait a minute... did this question about fairness in the given situations perchance pop up in your head while you were watching porn?

Life's not fair.

Wait a minute... did this question about fairness in the given situations perchance pop up in your head while you were watching porn?

Hurdegaryp, it didn't. It popped up in a discussion that I had on another forum about whether or not females could get pizza without paying for it.

I was just thinking of something the other day, and it got me thinking about how fair (or in this case, perhaps not) society is these days. Consider the following scenario:

You have a male pizza delivery person delivering pizza to a house, with a female inside. The female is reasonably attracted to the male pizza delivery person, invites him inside and offers to do the deed (imagine that there would be no effects on his job). Now imagine that the roles were reversed; that it was a female pizza delivery person and a male inside the house. In the latter scenario, the guy would be charged with either one of sexual harassment or attempted rape, while in the former scenario, any charge of sexual harassment or attempted rape would more than likely be laughed off by the judiciary.

Now is this really fair? I think not - how about you?

Well, your assumptions are all over the place.

How could there be no effects on his job unless the guy was so premature that it took less than five minutes to complete the act? Delivery drivers are supposed to be on time and not waste any time while delivering. Being late back to base would have an effect, believe me.

How do you know the guy would be charged with anything? Flirting with waiters and delivery people is pretty common. You also assume the male driver would automatically accept any offer and any female driver would decline any offer.

Asking for sex without attempting to take it by force is not attempted rape. It's creepy and inappropriate given the scenario, but it's never rape.

Laughed off by judiciary? Of course it would. Being asked for sex is not rape, attempted or otherwise. Unless you're one of those people dim enough to believe that a woman can't harass a man.

You assume that the legal system would be invoked at all. Anyone who is in the service industry and can't take a little innuendo without resorting to lawyering up is in the wrong field. That doesn't excuse the behavior, but there's a reasonable expectation that you will encounter the occasional asshole, male or female.

You're trolling for incendiary responses or some kind of hollow shouting match over harassment legislation. Why not just come out and say you think such legal provisions are wrong and say why instead of trying to cast it all in some bogus scenario that involves consent (or refusal) in the first place?

Well, your assumptions are all over the place.

How could there be no effects on his job unless the guy was so premature that it took less than five minutes to complete the act? Delivery drivers are supposed to be on time and not waste any time while delivering. Being late back to base would have an effect, believe me.

How do you know the guy would be charged with anything? Flirting with waiters and delivery people is pretty common. You also assume the male driver would automatically accept any offer and any female driver would decline any offer.

Asking for sex without attempting to take it by force is not attempted rape. It's creepy and inappropriate given the scenario, but it's never rape.

Laughed off by judiciary? Of course it would. Being asked for sex is not rape, attempted or otherwise. Unless you're one of those people dim enough to believe that a woman can't harass a man.

You assume that the legal system would be invoked at all. Anyone who is in the service industry and can't take a little innuendo without resorting to lawyering up is in the wrong field. That doesn't excuse the behavior, but there's a reasonable expectation that you will encounter the occasional asshole, male or female.

You're trolling for incendiary responses or some kind of hollow shouting match over harassment legislation. Why not just come out and say you think such legal provisions are wrong and say why instead of trying to cast it all in some bogus scenario that involves consent (or refusal) in the first place?

First of all, I was not attempting to troll with this thread; it was just a thought of mine that I decided to share with the members of NSG.

The first thing, I had to indicate the assumption that the delivery persons job was unaffected, as it would take away from the argument. My argument really is that it seems to me that in the modern day and age, females can get away with practically anything when it comes to what could be broadly defined as "sexual harassment," while males will get slung with all the charges.

Furthermore, where did I say that the male would accept the offer and the female would decline the offer? In fact, I made the assumption that the delivery person would decline the offer. If there was offer and acceptance, there would be no problem - it is where there is offer and non-acceptance which is what I wished to discuss. Also, I know that females can harass, why do you think I brought up this thread?

This isn't about harassment law at all; I do believe that it should be in place, however, it is more about society and how society reacts to certain events.

I was just thinking of something the other day, and it got me thinking about how fair (or in this case, perhaps not) society is these days.

Adult entertainment will do that to a man. What was the title of the movie?

EDIT: I just read the true origin of this thread... free pizza. Man, now I'm hungry.

I've delivered pizzas for like 3 years now, and the furthest I've ever got was a chick in her underwear opening the door, and a bunch of underaged schoolgirls in pyjamas.

I think I'm delivering in the wrong place here.

That or you're just living and working in the real world. I know, it sucks. That's why we've got MMORPGs.

First of all, I was not attempting to troll with this thread; it was just a thought of mine that I decided to share with the members of NSG.

The first thing, I had to indicate the assumption that the delivery persons job was unaffected, as it would take away from the argument. My argument really is that it seems to me that in the modern day and age, females can get away with practically anything when it comes to what could be broadly defined as "sexual harassment," while males will get slung with all the charges.

Furthermore, where did I say that the male would accept the offer and the female would decline the offer? In fact, I made the assumption that the delivery person would decline the offer. If there was offer and acceptance, there would be no problem - it is where there is offer and non-acceptance which is what I wished to discuss. Also, I know that females can harass, why do you think I brought up this thread?

This isn't about harassment law at all; I do believe that it should be in place, however, it is more about society and how society reacts to certain events.

Thanks for clearing that up.

You're still assuming that charges would be brought at all. When I was driving, we were all taught to just walk away when customers got either belligerent or over-flirtatious in any way that made us uncomfortable. No tip was worth the hassle or potential for something worse.

You're also assuming that the cases, were they brought by male or female driver, would be treated differently. Sure, the macho ethos is still pervasive, but if I'd reached the point where a woman was harassing me, and it was unwanted, and I could no longer ignore it after several attempts to ask her to refrain, and it was unavoidable, I might bring a case, just to make the point that what she's doing is not acceptable just because society hasn't yet fully acquired equality of perception. But that's a lot of "ifs".

Any woman old enough to drive should have the brains to not go into a stranger's house. Again, not excusing any crimes, but saying that common sense should prevail.

You ask "is it fair" but then base the whole scenario on "if" and the assumption of inequality with regard to harassment suits. Are men falsely accused? Sure. But when you consider the numbers of which gender does more sexual harassing overall, the number of false accusations must be higher against men because the overall number of reported incidents is surely higher. That's an assumption on MY part, but if pressed, I'd look it up. Right now I don't care enough to.

I was just thinking of something the other day, and it got me thinking about how fair (or in this case, perhaps not) society is these days. Consider the following scenario:

You have a male pizza delivery person delivering pizza to a house, with a female inside. The female is reasonably attracted to the male pizza delivery person, invites him inside and offers to do the deed (imagine that there would be no effects on his job). Now imagine that the roles were reversed; that it was a female pizza delivery person and a male inside the house. In the latter scenario, the guy would be charged with either one of sexual harassment or attempted rape, while in the former scenario, any charge of sexual harassment or attempted rape would more than likely be laughed off by the judiciary.

Now is this really fair? I think not - how about you?
huh?

in both scenarios, the customer is attracted to the delivery person?

it depends on the delivery of the line. is the male person being charming and tries to be nice (asking the female Delivery person if she wanted to meet after her shift for coffee or what not, or is he saying, gee you look nice, let's fuck.)

the male would most likly NOT press charges because he would most likely view the female's advances as a compliment.

it's not about fairness, but about attitude, tact and perception.

Yes, poor men. They are such a persecuted group in society. Just like whites, straights and the upper classes. Men enjoy privilige in so many areas of their lives. Seriously, get off your cross, hun.

No, it's not fair. It's also an entirely unrealistic strawman scenario.

I was just thinking of something the other day, and it got me thinking about how fair (or in this case, perhaps not) society is these days. Consider the following scenario:

You have a male pizza delivery person delivering pizza to a house, with a female inside. The female is reasonably attracted to the male pizza delivery person, invites him inside and offers to do the deed (imagine that there would be no effects on his job). Now imagine that the roles were reversed; that it was a female pizza delivery person and a male inside the house. In the latter scenario, the guy would be charged with either one of sexual harassment or attempted rape, while in the former scenario, any charge of sexual harassment or attempted rape would more than likely be laughed off by the judiciary.

Now is this really fair? I think not - how about you?

Your scenario is not fair

Nor is it realistic

Yes, poor men. They are such a persecuted group in society. Just like whites, straights and the upper classes. Men enjoy privilige in so many areas of their lives. Seriously, get off your cross, hun.

Wait a sec. It's perfectly legitimate to point out that males do get the shaft in some circumstances (i.e. that instances where a man is raped by a woman are not treated as seriously) without making or implying that men are generally discriminated against.

Hurdegaryp, it didn't. It popped up in a discussion that I had on another forum about whether or not females could get pizza without paying for it.

There are a lot of things that women get without paying cash. But to say they don't pay for it is false. They're just paying with other things (flattery, the potential for sex, sex itself, etc). it may be unfair that women can do this more easily than men, but hey, it's the men who want the other things more than they want their cash.

Somebody's upset that they got turned down by the pizza delivery girl.

Its utterly unfair...But, i find it a very unlikely scenario...

not to mention, the guy can put the same charges on her, just ask those kids that sue Teachers for it...

Wait a sec. It's perfectly legitimate to point out that males do get the shaft in some circumstances (i.e. that instances where a man is raped by a woman are not treated as seriously) without making or implying that men are generally discriminated against.

Yes, the tiny number of cases where that happens are wrong. But only a very small percentage of rapes by men on women are succesfully prosecuted, or even reported to police. And the number of rapes on women is generally thought to be higher. In terms of rape, women suffer a lot more than men. Given this, focusing on the tiny number of cases where men are treated unfairly is misleading and reeks of an agenda.

Given this, focusing on the tiny number of cases where men are treated unfairly is misleading and reeks of an agenda.

But it isn't just limited to this. Many things from men are underreported, ranging from eating disorders to attempted suicides. And it all links back to some idealized image of machismo that does more harm than good. It's not that the tiny number of cases (even if they're all reported) reeks of an agenda that's trying to undermine women, but rather that it's a small facet of a larger issue that plagues the male sex. And I see no reason why paying attention to this and trying to solve should have any negative impact on improving the station of women in the world.

I think that the system is unbalanced for both sides.

But it isn't just limited to this. Many things from men are underreported, ranging from eating disorders to attempted suicides. And it all links back to some idealized image of machismo that does more harm than good. It's not that the tiny number of cases (even if they're all reported) reeks of an agenda that's trying to undermine women, but rather that it's a small facet of a larger issue that plagues the male sex. And I see no reason why paying attention to this and trying to solve should have any negative impact on improving the station of women in the world.

Eating disorders in men are rarely reported, because they are rare. I agree that there *should* be a recognition that such things can affect men too. But diverting a substantial portion of funding specifically towards focusing on male issues wouldn't seem to be an efficient use of scarce resources, given the small numbers affected. Where does the extra money to research and educate come from? And if you focus too much on men, it could obscure the fact that women are particularly affected by these things and the effort to tackle this, the larger scale problem

I'd say it depends on the pizza!

Eating disorders in men are rarely reported, because they are rare. I agree that there *should* be a recognition that such things can affect men too. But diverting a substantial portion of funding specifically towards focusing on male issues wouldn't seem to be an efficient use of scarce resources, given the small numbers affected. Where does the extra money to research and educate come from? And if you focus too much on men, it could obscure the fact that women are particularly affected by these things and the effort to tackle this, the larger scale problem


Who is advocating a diversion of funding? So far it seems to be simply discussion on a forum with minimal resource impact

I think the OP's argument is riddled with holes and assumptions but that does not mean that some recreational time discussing it is a bad thing

I was just thinking of something the other day, and it got me thinking about how fair (or in this case, perhaps not) society is these days. Consider the following scenario:

You have a male pizza delivery person delivering pizza to a house, with a female inside. The female is reasonably attracted to the male pizza delivery person, invites him inside and offers to do the deed (imagine that there would be no effects on his job). Now imagine that the roles were reversed; that it was a female pizza delivery person and a male inside the house. In the latter scenario, the guy would be charged with either one of sexual harassment or attempted rape, while in the former scenario, any charge of sexual harassment or attempted rape would more than likely be laughed off by the judiciary.

Now is this really fair? I think not - how about you?
im so confused. why would anyone be charged with anything?

Who is advocating a diversion of funding? So far it seems to be simply discussion on a forum with minimal resource impact

I think the OP's argument is riddled with holes and assumptions but that does not mean that some recreational time discussing it is a bad thing

The person whose post I was responding to (Geniasis) was advocating greater attention to be paid to rape, eating disorders etc also affecting men. I was saying this was good in principle, but that ad campaigns and education in practice cost money, and you don't want to divert too much money to tackling a small section of a larger problem at the expense of focusing on the vast majority affected by these -women. Thats the resource issue I was on about in that post.

Whats the point of ad campaigns anyway...the money would be better spent on non-discriminating facilities to deal with the problems...

Whats the point of ad campaigns anyway...the money would be better spent on non-discriminating facilities to deal with the problems...

Well, three-quarters of the problem with men and such things is the stereotypical ideas of "masculinity" that mean they won't even seek help out of shame. Just providing the facilities on its own wouldn't do it. You need to be changing fundamental attitudes, which takes a lot of investment in education and advertising over a long period. Otherwise its a bit like money down the drain.

By watching a lot of afternoon "court" shows, I';d say plenty of guys get girls to buy them stuff --probably as many as girls get guys to buy them stuff.

Eating disorders in men are rarely reported, because they are rare. I agree that there *should* be a recognition that such things can affect men too. But diverting a substantial portion of funding specifically towards focusing on male issues wouldn't seem to be an efficient use of scarce resources, given the small numbers affected. Where does the extra money to research and educate come from? And if you focus too much on men, it could obscure the fact that women are particularly affected by these things and the effort to tackle this, the larger scale problem

I'm not even talking about funding, I'm just talking about awareness which is generated just as much by individuals as well as ad campaigns. Also, I would disagree that these issues are all that much rarer in men, but I'm too lazy to use actual facts to back me up.

Hurdegaryp, it didn't. It popped up in a discussion that I had on another forum about whether or not females could get pizza without paying for it.
So can a guy if he's cute and charming enough and the delivery person is a horny chick.

The scenario you present is not fair in the least. Luckily, I'm also pretty sure it doesn't exist.

The scenario you present is not fair in the least. Luckily, I'm also pretty sure it doesn't exist.

Sounds like somebody's been browsing watching far too many clips from Big Sausage Pizza...

Seriously, man or woman I think we'd all be a little unnerved if the pizza delivery guy rammed his dick through the pizza we paid for and then sat down in our house, proceeding to reveal his turgid member without invitation. Unless, perhaps, he was one hell of a good-looking pizza guy and I cannot recall ever seeing any delivery person of either sex that is particularly attractive.

It's generally considered bad form to ask a question, answer it, then complain you don't like the answer.

Life isn't fair mate as a male you will not get away with some of the same stuff as women, surely you learnt this at school.

Somebody's upset that they got turned down by the pizza delivery girl.

Or perhaps is up on a charge after misinterpreting "it DOES have Extra Meat, right?" while doing his deliveries. :D

This bit made me laugh the hardest.

Now imagine that the roles were reversed; that it was a female pizza delivery person and a male inside the house. In the latter scenario, the guy would be charged with either one of sexual harassment or attempted rape, while in the former scenario, any charge of sexual harassment or attempted rape would more than likely be laughed off by the judiciary.


Why would there be any charge, if both participants are consenting again?

I'm not even talking about funding, I'm just talking about awareness which is generated just as much by individuals as well as ad campaigns. Also, I would disagree that these issues are all that much rarer in men, but I'm too lazy to use actual facts to back me up.

It depends on the particular issue. Domestic violence for example is equally likely to be female-male as male-female (and no, I'm not just talking about defensive violence), however serious injury and chronic abuse is more likely against females. Nonetheless, we are talking significant numbers here and it is something that needs to be addressed.

I believe for rape, for every 10 rapes reported, 1 will be against a male but this is going by official statistics, which have two serious problems in terms of male rape. 1) reporting rates by males are significantly lower than females (and reporting rates for females are already far too low). 2) In many countries this will only count male on male rapes... hell in some countries (I know for a fact Scotland is one of them but I think there are others) by the definition of rape, men can't get raped.. at all.

Personally I think that more needs to be done to address rape irrespective of gender of the victim (or perpetrator) and certainly more research is needed in the area. There may only be limited resources, but treating rape as something that can only happen from a man to a women doesn't help either gender because it simply perpetrates the view of the "women-victim" and that is highly counter-productive.

This bit made me laugh the hardest.




Why would there be any charge, if both participants are consenting again?
i am complete at a loss as to where criminal charges come into this scenario at all.

Well, your assumptions are all over the place.

How could there be no effects on his job unless the guy was so premature that it took less than five minutes to complete the act? Delivery drivers are supposed to be on time and not waste any time while delivering. Being late back to base would have an effect, believe me.

How do you know the guy would be charged with anything? Flirting with waiters and delivery people is pretty common. You also assume the male driver would automatically accept any offer and any female driver would decline any offer.

Asking for sex without attempting to take it by force is not attempted rape. It's creepy and inappropriate given the scenario, but it's never rape.

Laughed off by judiciary? Of course it would. Being asked for sex is not rape, attempted or otherwise. Unless you're one of those people dim enough to believe that a woman can't harass a man.

You assume that the legal system would be invoked at all. Anyone who is in the service industry and can't take a little innuendo without resorting to lawyering up is in the wrong field. That doesn't excuse the behavior, but there's a reasonable expectation that you will encounter the occasional asshole, male or female.

You're trolling for incendiary responses or some kind of hollow shouting match over harassment legislation. Why not just come out and say you think such legal provisions are wrong and say why instead of trying to cast it all in some bogus scenario that involves consent (or refusal) in the first place?
^ This.

This bit made me laugh the hardest.




Why would there be any charge, if both participants are consenting again?
Duh, because Ebil Womenz love to falsely accuse poor innocent men of rape!

I know that I, personally, don't consider my Friday Night complete until I've been subjected to a rape kit.

Duh, because Ebil Womenz love to falsely accuse poor innocent men of rape!

I know that I, personally, don't consider my Friday Night complete until I've been subjected to a rape kit.

Quiet woman, you have no idea how hard it is to be a man in today's society. Don't you understand how unfair it is that it's considered inappropriate when I proposition random people for sex?

Wait a sec. It's perfectly legitimate to point out that males do get the shaft in some circumstances (i.e. that instances where a man is raped by a woman are not treated as seriously) without making or implying that men are generally discriminated against.
It's also perfectly legitimate to laugh your arse off when men complain that the subject of female pizza delivery rapists isn't taken seriously enough.

Tell you what, though:

If you lads are feeling bad because people don't automatically assume that you're likely to be raped whenever a female person propositions you, let's just trade places. I'm willing to shoulder the terrible burden of being less likely to be raped, in exchange for giving up all the wonderful attention that such status brings.

Quiet woman, you have no idea how hard it is to be a man in today's society. Don't you understand how unfair it is that it's considered inappropriate when I proposition random people for sex?

Of course I don't understand. My soft female brain is only able to recognize that you are a male, and I'm far too busy filing false rape reports to worry about empathizing with you.

Sheesh, men.

Of course I don't understand. My soft female brain is only able to recognize that you are a male, and I'm far too busy filing false rape reports to worry about empathizing with you.

Sheesh, men.

like women are capable of carring about someone else.

Other than babies of course.

Hey, where the hell did you disappear to by the way?

like women are capable of carring about someone else.

Other than babies of course.

Excuse me?!

I'll have you know I'm a Librul Grrl, and I certainly don't care about babies! I like to follow up a good rape kit with a casual abortion, just like all other college-educated socialist harpies of my ilk.


Hey, where the hell did you disappear to by the way?
Let me just say this: grad school can bite me.

Excuse me?!

I'll have you know I'm a Librul Grrl, and I certainly don't care about babies! I like to follow up a good rape kit with a casual abortion, just like all other college-educated socialist harpies of my ilk.

Well that explains why you're so angry. You need a child or four.


Let me just say this: grad school can bite me.

Can I? ;)

but in seriousness, been there. The three months leading up to the bar were the worst in my life.

I'll have you know I'm a Librul Grrl, and I certainly don't care about babies! I like to follow up a good rape kit with a casual abortion, just like all other college-educated socialist harpies of my ilk.

And here I was thinking that all us college-educated Libruls were automatically man-hating dykes... damn is that what I've been doing wrong all these years.


Let me just say this: grad school can bite me.

A sentiment I can well and truly sympathise with.

Well that explains why you're so angry. You need a child or four.

Nah, what I really need is for more men to complain about how they're oppressed by the fact that they can't file false rape reports as often as women get to.

Or whatever the hell the OP is on about. To be honest, at this point I'm guessing it was just a Penthouse Letters submission that went stupid.


Can I? ;)

but in seriousness, been there. The three months leading up to the bar were the worst in my life.
The one ray of sunshine in my life is that quals are behind me. I still have my beastly thesis that will not die, but at least I never have to take another exam.

Nah, what I really need is for more men to complain about how they're oppressed by the fact that they can't file false rape reports as often as women get to.

Or whatever the hell the OP is on about. To be honest, at this point I'm guessing it was just a Penthouse Letters submission that went stupid.

"I swear this is true . . . "


The one ray of sunshine in my life is that quals are behind me. I still have my beastly thesis that will not die, but at least I never have to take another exam.

Great feeling eh? What's the thesis on?

The idiotic thing is, despite having escaped academia a while back, I've been considering a journal submission that's been bouncing around in my head, so I might have to actually do some academic work soon, but nothing like a thesis.

The one ray of sunshine in my life is that quals are behind me. I still have my beastly thesis that will not die, but at least I never have to take another exam.

That's one thing I've never got with American PhDs, that you have such a taught component. Over here it's ALL about the thesis (ok, you have a couple of stats modules in the first year but they don't really count). Three years exclusively of research leading to a monstrosity of a thesis. Two years in and I'm almost sick of the sight of it I will admit.

This said we no longer have exams once we start our PhDs :D

"I swear this is true . . . "

Don't get me wrong, I've certainly had the Hot Pizza Boy/Girl fantasy plenty of times. The subject actually came up while some friends and I were drinking one time in college, and our discussion got in-depth to the point of addressing which major pizza chain uses a uniform that could be best adapted for various pornographic purposes.

But one's own sexual fantasies really shouldn't be directly extrapolated to politics or social policy, IMO.


Great feeling eh? What's the thesis on?

Structure/function studies and characterization of medial vestibular nucleus neurons.

I know. I snore just reading my abstract.


The idiotic thing is, despite having escaped academia a while back, I've been considering a journal submission that's been bouncing around in my head, so I might have to actually do some academic work soon, but nothing like a thesis.Grats on that! Hope it comes together for you.

Don't get me wrong, I've certainly had the Hot Pizza Boy/Girl fantasy plenty of times. The subject actually came up while some friends and I were drinking one time in college, and our discussion got in-depth to the point of addressing which major pizza chain uses a uniform that could be best adapted for various pornographic purposes.

Dominos, with some appropriate repositioning of the white circles.

Alternatively, Papa Ginos could work for certain fetish flicks.

Structure/function studies and characterization of medial vestibular nucleus neurons.

I have no idea what this means....

Grats on that! Hope it comes together for you.

The gist of it is relooking at the question of same sex marriage constitutional protections under the 14th amendment, looking at it not from the perspective of sexuality discrimination, but rather gender discrimination.

Hurdegaryp, it didn't. It popped up in a discussion that I had on another forum about whether or not females could get pizza without paying for it.

Sure they can -- in a porn movie.

You know what's not fair? I'm lactose intolerant and therefore don't get to have a pizza delivery person. Unless someone can tell me what to do with all the pizza...

Don't get me wrong, I've certainly had the Hot Pizza Boy/Girl fantasy plenty of times. The subject actually came up while some friends and I were drinking one time in college, and our discussion got in-depth to the point of addressing which major pizza chain uses a uniform that could be best adapted for various pornographic purposes.
Dominos, with some appropriate repositioning of the white circles.

Alternatively, Papa Ginos could work for certain fetish flicks.

I can honestly say I've never had that fantasy and this is not one of my fetishes. Maybe it's because I order way more Chinese than pizza, and the delivery guys always seem to be 250 years old and look like they just fell off a charm bracelet. And those chain restaurant uniforms only make me think of shitty jobs I'd rather die than do. Maybe that's because I saw "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" while I was still yet a child and in the formative phase of my sexual identity.

But one's own sexual fantasies really shouldn't be directly extrapolated to politics or social policy, IMO.
I think you have just identified the problem with the Bush administration.

I can honestly say I've never had that fantasy and this is not one of my fetishes. Maybe it's because I order way more Chinese than pizza, and the delivery guys always seem to be 250 years old and look like they just fell off a charm bracelet. And those chain restaurant uniforms only make me think of shitty jobs I'd rather die than do. Maybe that's because I saw "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" while I was still yet a child and in the formative phase of my sexual identity.

I could bring you some pizza Mur ;)

I think you have just identified the problem with the Bush administration.

What? Some prominent Republican and his aide were BOTH fucking Alison Poole, and she got pregnant?

You know what's not fair? I'm lactose intolerant and therefore don't get to have a pizza delivery person. Unless someone can tell me what to do with all the pizza...

Order it with extra sauce and use it for lubrication.

OH MY GOD!!! I didn't just type that, did I? I'm so inappropriate. *goes to have soul laundered*

It's also perfectly legitimate to laugh your arse off when men complain that the subject of female pizza delivery rapists isn't taken seriously enough.

Tell you what, though:

If you lads are feeling bad because people don't automatically assume that you're likely to be raped whenever a female person propositions you, let's just trade places. I'm willing to shoulder the terrible burden of being less likely to be raped, in exchange for giving up all the wonderful attention that such status brings.

Yeah. Take a look at my other posts in this topic. I'm not even defending the pizza example, and I'm not arguing that men aren't the privileged gender in society. Nice try though.

I could bring you some pizza Mur ;)
Bring a large soda and make sure the white circles are in the right places. ;)

Bring a large soda and make sure the white circles are in the right places. ;)

fuckin' deal.

Yeah. Take a look at my other posts in this topic. I'm not even defending the pizza example, and I'm not arguing that men aren't the privileged gender in society. Nice try though.
In conversations like this, I can't figure out which is the better laugh -- the people who try to be serious in such a topic, or the OP whose Penthouse Forum post fell on deaf ears.

Yeah. Take a look at my other posts in this topic. I'm not even defending the pizza example, and I'm not arguing that men aren't the privileged gender in society. Nice try though.
Oy.

Okay, the "you" in that post was the plural you, or the "y'all" verb form. Now you can stop being butthurt and get back to your day. :D

Oy.

Okay, the "you" in that post was the plural you, or the "y'all" verb form. Now you can stop being butthurt and get back to your day. :D

so what is a medieval vestibule or whatever?

Looks like some won't succumb to the possibility of fucking the random pizza guy, but cybersex with some random person on the Internet is just fine...

so what is a medieval vestibule or whatever?
I'm so totally going to re-title my thesis forms with that and see if anybody even notices the change.

The medial vestibular nucleus is the largest group of cells in the human vestibular nuclei, which are found toward the top of the brainstem. It is highly involved in the reflex pathways that allow you to maintain posture and balance, particularly in regard to coordinating your eye movements with your head/body movements.

Yeah. Take a look at my other posts in this topic. I'm not even defending the pizza example, and I'm not arguing that men aren't the privileged gender in society. Nice try though.
Oh, boo hoo, you don't get free drinks at bars, but you don't have your fertility used against you when applying for jobs and promotions, poor you.

Looks like some won't succumb to the possibility of fucking the random pizza guy, but cybersex with some random person on the Internet is just fine...

Sometimes cybersex leads to real sex. So totally worth it:D

I'm so totally going to re-title my thesis forms with that and see if anybody even notices the change.

The medial vestibular nucleus is the largest group of cells in the human vestibular nuclei, which are found toward the top of the brainstem. It is highly involved in the reflex pathways that allow you to maintain posture and balance, particularly in regard to coordinating your eye movements with your head/body movements.

ahh, ok. So that thing that guys do on the beach where they follow the hot chicks in bikinis with their eyes while wearing sunglasses and not moving their head so it doesn't look like we're looking? That's the medial vestibular thingy?

I love my medial vestibular.....

In seriousness, I'm trying to figure out how I can extend my article to the necessary length, there's very little on the subject, I suppose I can throw in some historical perspective.

so what is a medieval vestibule or whatever?

Thats something that can only be found in existing mediviel churches, innit?

Sometimes cybersex leads to real sex. So totally worth it:D

I've found great sex so easily obtained in person that I find cybersex to be utterly lame.

Oh, boo hoo, you don't get free drinks at bars, but you don't have your fertility used against you when applying for jobs and promotions, poor you.

Once again, not what I'm talking about. Oftentimes men can't get the help they need or won't even try to because of some idiotic image that means that men can't be victims or suffer from "girly" conditions. This is wrong. And while we are more privileged than women and Bottle said she would gladly trade, I don't think it's right that anyone should have to choose.

Although I think a large part of tackling this would be the further empowerment of women. As they become less of "weak victims" and more "actual people", they would not only receive the same rights but also be seen as capable of the same crimes. From there, it's a much shorter walk to solving the "men can't be victims" issue.

Oy.

Okay, the "you" in that post was the plural you, or the "y'all" verb form. Now you can stop being butthurt and get back to your day. :D

What? It's over... but... but...

Oh! Would you look at that? I just dropped some soap. I guess I'd better bend over and pick it up...

In conversations like this, I can't figure out which is the better laugh -- the people who try to be serious in such a topic, or the OP whose Penthouse Forum post fell on deaf ears.

I think it's the contrast, really.

Order it with extra sauce and use it for lubrication.

OH MY GOD!!! I didn't just type that, did I? I'm so inappropriate. *goes to have soul laundered*

But then still, what do I do with the pizza? Or do I just stuff the whole thing in the blender?

*calls pizza place* Hey! I'm just ... er ... consuming ... the pizza you sent, and I didn't order any anchovies! ... What? You didn't put any anchovies on it? Oh wait. Never mind. Bye.

I've actually never in my life seen a female pizza delivery person. That isn't fair at all.. but once I got a free pizza, does that mean I'm gay and who do I got to sue?

Oh, man, this thread has me laughing my ass off. Bottle, Neo Art, and Muravyets, can I just, like, collectively marry all three of you?

Oh, man, this thread has me laughing my ass off. Bottle, Neo Art, and Muravyets, can I just, like, collectively marry all three of you?

Bottle Mur and Poli? I can dig it.

Bottle Mur and Poli? I can dig it.

Haven't you already married all three of us, and didn't we mop the floor with you, diss you to your face, and get divorced already? Oh, wait, Bottle wasn't in on that thread.

Uhuh. Some nice female teachers were sentenced for having sex with 16 years old boys.

Haven't you already married all three of us, and didn't we mop the floor with you, diss you to your face, and get divorced already? Oh, wait, Bottle wasn't in on that thread.

And as I recall, we didn't actually get married, we just wrestled in jello. I think NA still approved, though. :tongue:

Once again, not what I'm talking about. Oftentimes men can't get the help they need or won't even try to because of some idiotic image that means that men can't be victims or suffer from "girly" conditions. This is wrong. And while we are more privileged than women and Bottle said she would gladly trade, I don't think it's right that anyone should have to choose.

Although I think a large part of tackling this would be the further empowerment of women. As they become less of "weak victims" and more "actual people", they would not only receive the same rights but also be seen as capable of the same crimes. From there, it's a much shorter walk to solving the "men can't be victims" issue.

I think that the bigger issue men have is this whole business where a number of them think that the only thing members of their gender can do is be providers, preferably strong and silent ones who never show weakness. As much as further empowering women is good, having men accept that they too can do many things apart from just being the breadwinners (including care for and raise children if they so choose) is good.

And as I recall, we didn't actually get married, we just wrestled in jello. I think NA still approved, though. :tongue:
Oh, that's right. Oh, well, jello... marriage... same diff.

I think that the bigger issue men have is this whole business where a number of them think that the only thing members of their gender can do is be providers, preferably strong and silent ones who never show weakness. As much as further empowering women is good, having men accept that they too can do many things apart from just being the breadwinners (including care for and raise children if they so choose) is good.

Those are things seen as traditionally feminine. By making those feminine attributes equal to the masculine ones, there are great strides made in solving the problem. I'm not saying that solving one solves the other, but that by solving one we make headway, or at least a better jumping-off point in solving the other. Er... does that make sense?

The real double standard is when I try to use pizza sauce to adhere pepperoni pasties to my nipples, the world thinks it's creepy. But if a girl does it, well everybody thinks it's great. That is unfair.

The real double standard is when I try to use pizza sauce to adhere pepperoni pasties to my nipples, the world thinks it's creepy. But if a girl does it, well everybody thinks it's great. That is unfair.

I wonder if it is just a boob thing? I mean, and of course being a hetro male I may be a tad biased, that the boob of a woman is infanetly better looking than the boob of a man. Infact woman are just better looking all over!

I wonder if it is just a boob thing? I mean, and of course being a hetro male I may be a tad biased, that the boob of a woman is infanetly better looking than the boob of a man. Infact woman are just better looking all over!

As a gay woman I must concur...

Yes I too may be biased on this one

As a gay woman I must concur...

What do you mean I may be biased on this one?

I mean that as a hetro man, I have no interest in a mans boobs, short of plucking the hairs from my own from time to time(only when the wife has left some).

I dunno if it's fair or not.

I do know that this is how our society operates. In the vast majority of cases of encounters like this (yes, they do happen out there) guys are always far more receptive to female offers for casual encounters than vice versa. That's the way males and females tend to be. We're used to it.

Any guy who complains about this is just mad because some cute pizza delivery girl won't come in and screw him and then give him a free pizza.

Any guy who complains about this is just mad because some cute pizza delivery girl won't come in and screw him and then give him a free pizza.


I think that in the unlikey scenerio that a cute pizza girl offers to shag you, you should at least offer to pay for the pizza.

I mean that as a hetro man, I have no interest in a mans boobs, short of plucking the hairs from my own from time to time(only when the wife has left some).

I know... that was more a sarcastic/retorical question to the world at large. Rereading the comment, I can see how it was confusing... fixed now

I wonder if it is just a boob thing? I mean, and of course being a hetro male I may be a tad biased, that the boob of a woman is infanetly better looking than the boob of a man. Infact woman are just better looking all over!
Well, as a heterosexual woman, I don't react well to the words "man" and "boob" together side-by-side like that, but man-nipples coated in pizza sauce... hmm, let me think... *thinks about it* ...Yeah, I could go for some of that action. ;)

Well, as a heterosexual woman, I don't react well to the words "man" and "boob" together side-by-side like that, but man-nipples coated in pizza sauce... hmm, let me think... *thinks about it* ...Yeah, I could go for some of that action. ;)

Umm now if you changed them words for 'Woman' and 'chocolate' then I'd agree, yep yep.:D

Umm now if you changed them words for 'Woman' and 'chocolate' then I'd agree, yep yep.:D

What's the phrase I'm looking for. Ah yes "cover me in chocolate and throw me to the lesbians" :D

I think that in the unlikey scenerio that a cute pizza girl offers to shag you, you should at least offer to pay for the pizza.

I don't think it's so unlikely that a cute girl would offer to shag me... :(

In seriousness, (well, as serious as this thread can be, anyway) I would agree with you completely. Here's the rough spot... The tip...

Tip too much, she's offended because you apparently see her as a prostitute.
Tip too little, she's offended because, hey, you just got laid, yet still feels like you're seeing her as a prostitute.
Tip not at all, and you feel guilty because hey, she still delivered a pizza that you purchased.

I don't think it's so unlikely that a cute girl would offer to shag me... :(

What would your wife say, though?

What's the phrase I'm looking for. Ah yes "cover me in chocolate and throw me to the lesbians" :D

Bwahahahahaha! I know a few lesbians, one of them is resonably good looking, naaa make that two of them.

I don't think it's so unlikely that a cute girl would offer to shag me... :(

In seriousness, (well, as serious as this thread can be, anyway) I would agree with you completely. Here's the rough spot... The tip...

Tip too much, she's offended because you apparently see her as a prostitute.
Tip too little, she's offended because, hey, you just got laid, yet still feels like you're seeing her as a prostitute.
Tip not at all, and you feel guilty because hey, she still delivered a pizza that you purchased.


Tip? Tip a delivery person? Are you mad man?:D

What would your wife say, though?

Actually, she IS the cute girl who frequently offers to shag me :D

Tip? Tip a delivery person? Are you mad man?:D

Heh. With gas prices as they are if we don't tip generously they'll be delivering pizzas on bicycles... Goodbye warm dinner...

Tip? Tip a delivery person? Are you mad man?:D

You obviously like your delivered food with that extra special something added then?

Actually, she IS the cute girl who frequently offers to shag me :D

The problem is, the scenario implies a woman who is a complete stranger, delivering pizza.

The problem is, the scenario implies a woman who is a complete stranger, delivering pizza.

Roleplay, man, roleplay!:p

You obviously like your delivered food with that extra special something added then?

Well not that I get food delived often, but naaa I guess it's just not a cultural norm here. Tip your waiter/ess and only then if the service warrents it, but a delivery driver, naaaa.

Yes, poor men. They are such a persecuted group in society. Just like whites, straights and the upper classes. Men enjoy privilige in so many areas of their lives. Seriously, get off your cross, hun.

What?

At best we are the puppets of you conniving women.

You obviously like your delivered food with that extra special something added then?
If you live in an area with A) Different social mores or B) Pay service staff full wages instead of the BS now

It would seem a little bit strange to tip unless someone does something above and beyond