NationStates Jolt Archive

Honestly, I don't know what the big change to Washington he plans to bring is. What is it?

cake for everyone.

As far as I can tell, he wants the world to stop hating the U.S. That's change enough as far as I, a foreigner, is concerned.

National health care, the allowing of gun bans as long it isn't done on a federal level, allow partial-birth abortion, Affirmative action, Anti-drugs, and a bucket load of crowd-pleasing phrases. K?

As far as I can tell, he wants the world to stop hating the U.S. That's change enough as far as I, a foreigner, is concerned.

And since the world always hates the superpower at the time...

Being the first sexy president?

National health care, the allowing of gun bans as long it isn't done on a federal level, allow partial-birth abortion, Affirmative action, Anti-drugs, and a bucket load of crowd-pleasing phrases. K?

threadwin

As far as I can tell, he wants the world to stop hating the U.S. That's change enough as far as I, a foreigner, is concerned.

Well, how does he plan on doing that, other than with high brow rhetoric that tells seven year olds that America is in the toughest times that it has ever been in. (I think that he has forgotten USCW, Great Depression, etc.)

Being the first sexy president?

Uh, what about John F.uckin' Kennedy.

Or Andrew "Ole Sexory" Jackson

Uh, what about John F.uckin' Kennedy.

Or Andrew "Ole Sexory" Jackson

I would take some Obama love over those any day of the week.

Uh, what about John F.uckin' Kennedy.

Or Andrew "Ole Sexory" Jackson

What, no "Teddy"(Think about that) Roosevelt?:tongue:

Well, how does he plan on doing that, other than with high brow rhetoric that tells seven year olds that America is in the toughest times that it has ever been in. (I think that he has forgotten USCW, Great Depression, etc.)

During those times, the world didn't hate you. But anyway. He's going to make the world like you by cleaning up your image.
You know all those various atrocities you've got going? Not so cool.

And since the world always hates the superpower at the time...

Usually because this superpower, while being overly powerful, is only concerned with its own welfare. It alternately ignores and tramples the rest of the world.

I would take some Obama love over those any day of the week.


Is that because they are dead, because I applaud your pass on necrophilia
What, no "Teddy"(Think about that) Roosevelt?:tongue:

*Smacks self for forgetting a sex god*

Six dollar fourty in ten cent coins.

During those times, the world didn't hate you. But anyway. He's going to make the world like you by cleaning up your image.
You know all those various atrocities you've got going? Not so cool.

Various atrocities?

Oh you mean those places we attacked because they attacked us!

Sorry, I forgot we were supposed to roll over and play dead.

Is that because they are dead, because I applaud your pass on necrophilia

You prude.

He's promising to take money away from some people and give it to others in the form of a tax rebate check.......oh, wait, that already happens......um......he wants to like have the government fund things......wait, already happens......he wants to raise taxes on the middle class. Yep. Raising taxes on the middle class. Also, repealing tax cuts for the people who aren't quite middle class.

During those times, the world didn't hate you. But anyway. He's going to make the world like you by cleaning up your image.
You know all those various atrocities you've got going? Not so cool.

1. During those times, we weren't a superpower.

2. You know all those various attroicities almost every* European country has committed? Not cool. You *do* realize that most European countries helped us invade Iraq too, right?

*'Cept those on the Scandinavian and Iberian peninsulas.

He's promising to take money away from some people and give it to others in the form of a tax rebate check.......oh, wait, that already happens......um......he wants to like have the government fund things......wait, already happens......he wants to raise taxes on the middle class. Yep. Raising taxes on the middle class. Also, repealing tax cuts for the people who aren't quite middle class.
Way to destroy the economy! *Does the "Death to the middle class" dance*:tongue:

Various atrocities?

Oh you mean those places we attacked because they attacked us!

Sorry, I forgot we were supposed to roll over and play dead.

Or the imprisonment without trial, torture, secret prisons, surveillance, shooting of civilians, rape of women, backing of Israel in everything, stuff like that maybe?
Also, when did Iraq attack you?

Honestly, I don't know what the big change to Washington he plans to bring is. What is it?

Liberal change, tax & spend Liberal. For those who wish to vote for a liberal no problem. But the candidate of change you can believe in wont tell you that.

The only real change he wants to bring is to win the election.

We have already debunked his campaign slogan change you can believe in. To he is not the candidate of change he claims to be.

Barack Obama, lie, attack his opponents on any issues, votes or political positions. Shocked, no it cant be not Obama.

Who according to himself everyone knows McCain has no plans (answers) for energy, the economy, ect, ect, ect. Mr Perfect Obama.

Or the imprisonment without trial, torture, secret prisons, surveillance, shooting of civilians, rape of women, backing of Israel in everything, stuff like that maybe?
Also, when did Iraq attack you?
Psst. Guess what other countries have also done that recently?

Various atrocities?

Oh you mean those places we attacked because they attacked us!

Sorry, I forgot we were supposed to roll over and play dead.

I think he meant places like Guantanamo, though I would like to ask when it was that Iraq attacked us, seeing as how it never fucking happened. Ever.

Unless you're under the delusion that we were attacked by Guantanamo, which would lead to another question concerning your drug habits as well as a critical inquiry into the nature of your parentage.

In all seriousness though, we actually haven't been attacked by a nation lately. Just by terrorists who weren't officially affiliated with any country (arguably Afghanistan, but certainly not Iraq).

Liberal change, tax & spend Liberal. For those who wish to vote for a liberal no problem. But the candidate of change you can believe in wont tell you that.

The only real change he wants to bring is to win the election.

We have already debunked his campaign slogan change you can believe in. To he is not the candiate of change he claims to be.

Barack Obama, lie, attack his opponents on any issues, votes or political positions. Shocked, no it cant be not Obama.

Who according to himself everyone knows McCain has no plans (answers) for energy, the economy, ect, ect, ect. Mr Perfect.
McCain HAS answers, he's just forgetting them as we speak.:D

Psst. Guess what other countries have also done that recently?

But Obama isn't running for president in those, now is he?

Various atrocities?

Oh you mean those places we attacked because they attacked us!

Sorry, I forgot we were supposed to roll over and play dead.

Although I don't strictly approve of the U.S.'s invasion of "those countries that attacked you" (actually, that's not true. I think invading Afganistan was okay, although it wasn't really the U.S.'s invasion), that wasn't what I was talking about. I was more thinking about prisoners, e.g. the treatment of.

I think he meant places like Guantanamo, though I would like to ask when it was that Iraq attacked us, seeing as how it never fucking happened. Ever.

Unless you're under the delusion that we were attacked by Guantanamo, which would lead to another question concerning your drug habits as well as a critical inquiry into the nature of your parentage.

In all seriousness though, we actually haven't been attacked by a nation lately. Just by terrorists who weren't officially affiliated with any country (arguably Afghanistan, but certainly not Iraq).
Y'know, if Dubya had said we were invading to stop the genocide by Saddam there, you realize that none of this hubbub would've happened. It's all about the right excuse...

But Obama isn't running for president in those, now is he?
But you can lay all the blame on the USA now that you've admitted that now, can you?

But you can lay all the blame on the USA now that you've admitted that now, can you?

CR is suggesting that the only atrocities the US has committed are "attacking countries that attacked us".
Also, I though we were supposed to hold the US to a higher standard than 3rd world countries.

You *do* realize that most European countries helped us invade Iraq too, right?

I'm sorry, but Poland, the U.K, and Australia do not count as "most European countries".

2. You know all those various attroicities almost every* European country has committed? Not cool.

Oh noez! Teh past!

But you can lay all the blame on the USA now that you've admitted that now, can you?

"Everyone does it" isn't an excuse.

CR is suggesting that the only atrocities the US has committed are "attacking countries that attacked us".
Also, I though we were supposed to hold the US to a higher standard than 3rd world countries.
And once again, the hypocrisy of it all shines through.
"Everyone does it" isn't an excuse.

I never said it was. I'm merely saying that you can't say "ZOMG!! Look at teh atroicities dat teh US has comitted!!!!11!" Without being a major hypocrite. Understand?

Way to destroy the economy! *Does the "Death to the middle class" dance*:tongue:

Go back to late absolutist France.

"Everyone does it" isn't an excuse.

How about "everyone did it"? Is that a good excuse? :D

And once again, the hypocrisy of it all shines through.


I never said it was. I'm merely saying that you can't say "ZOMG!! Look at teh atroicities dat teh US has comitted!!!!11!" Without being a major hypocrite. Understand?

Are you suggesting that I have committed such atrocities, which would make a hypocrite for criticizing the US?
Or are you saying that the US is such a backwards hellhole which cannot be held to western standards?

Go back to late absolutist France.

Care to elaborate? My recent (Read: Past 300 years) history is a bit rusty.

Are you suggesting that I have committed such atrocities, which would make a hypocrite for criticizing the US?
Or are you saying that the US is such a backwards hellhole which cannot be held to western standards?

I'm suggesting that, with all likeliness, your country probably has.

How about "everyone did it"? Is that a good excuse? :D

How 'bout "Everyone joined us in it, and so they can't call us on it without calling themselves on it"?

I'm suggesting that, with all likeliness, your country probably has.

I'm not my country. I can criticize any country I wish. But all things considered, I have my doubts that my country has been sending peeps to secret prisons for indefinite periods of time to be tortured.

I never said it was. I'm merely saying that you can't say "ZOMG!! Look at teh atroicities dat teh US has comitted!!!!11!" Without being a major hypocrite. Understand?

The hell I can't. I'm a U.S. citizen since birth, have never committed any atrocities on that scale and can very well condemn my country for its human rights violations whenever I damn well please.

Care to elaborate? My recent (Read: Past 300 years) history is a bit rusty.

Jean-Baptiste Colbert, tax burden carried by the poor, etc.

I'm suggesting that, with all likeliness, your country probably has.
Then you need to learn to seperate between an individual, and the national government that rules over the area said individual lives in.

No-one except a spokesperson for a violent administration can be a hypocrite for criticising a violent administration.

Good thing we worked out what change Obama is bringing. Good job, everyone.

How 'bout "Everyone joined us in it, and so they can't call us on it without calling themselves on it"?

I don't know why you keep saying that. Who is this elusive "everyone"?

I'm not my country. I can criticize any country I wish. But all things considered, I have my doubts that my country has been sending peeps to secret prisons for indefinite periods of time to be tortured.
And what country do you live in?
The hell I can't. I'm a U.S. citizen since birth, have never committed any atrocities on that scale and can very well condemn my country for its human rights violations whenever I damn well please.
Do you criticize everyone else that does so? If you don't, you're a hypocrite. If you do, good for you. You have the honor of being sensible.

Well, good thing we worked out what change Obama is bringing. Good job everyone.

We're pretty neat that way.

I don't know why you keep saying that. Who is this elusive "everyone"?
Almost everyone who is currently pointing at us and yelling 'bout our atrocities.

Good thing we worked out what change Obama is bringing. Good job, everyone.

Your return to topic is important to us. Please, stay on the line.

Or the imprisonment without trial, torture, secret prisons, surveillance, shooting of civilians, rape of women, backing of Israel in everything, stuff like that maybe?
Also, when did Iraq attack you?

When have we raped women? Any proof?
How was our detainment of prisoners of war a bad thing, did Vietnam give McCain a trial, heck no.
Secret prisons? How do you have any proof of them if we kept them secret?
Oh, and another thing, almost every nation outside of the Middle East supports Israel.

Iraq deserved our wrath because they paid the families of suicide bombers to attack our allies, and they murdered hundred of thousands of Kurds in a genocide.

Do you criticize everyone else that does so? If you don't, you're a hypocrite. If you do, good for you. You have the honor of being sensible.

When I hear about it, yeah. Naturally there's a bit more fervor when I condemn my own nation out of personal interest (I live here, after all) but I don't condone those actions at all. Of course I don't spend my whole day doing that on account of me having a life I need to live.

Almost everyone who is currently pointing at us...
You're part of the US administration?

...and yelling 'bout our atrocities.
You committed atrocities?

*slaps wrist*

When I hear about it, yeah. Naturally there's a bit more fervor when I condemn my own nation out of personal interest (I live here, after all) but I don't condone those actions at all. Of course I don't spend my whole day doing that on account of me having a life I need to live.
Very well than. Carry on.:tongue:

Almost everyone who is currently pointing at us and yelling 'bout our atrocities.

Canada? France? Germany? Sweden? Nicaragua?
Elusive indeed.

And what country do you live in?


Quite unimportant. A Scandinavian one.
But I criticize countries and people other than the US, as does most others. May I remind you that this is a US-related topic. Saudi Arabia and China can wait.

And what country do you live in?

Do you criticize everyone else that does so? If you don't, you're a hypocrite. If you do, good for you. You have the honor of being sensible.

Do you individually criticize everybody that's a hypocrite?

You're part of the US administration?

"Alright boys, take 'im away":D
You committed atrocities?

*slaps wrist*
"Our" here meaning the USA.

When have we raped women? Any proof?

Umm. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6388585.stm)
A US soldier has been sentenced to 100 years in prison for the gang rape of a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and the killing of her and her family.

How was our detainment of prisoners of war a bad thing, did Vietnam give McCain a trial, heck no.
Please tell me you didn't use the "We're not as bad as them" argument?


Oh, and another thing, almost every nation outside of the Middle East supports Israel.
How many bankroll it?

Iraq deserved our wrath because they paid the families of suicide bombers to attack our allies, and they murdered hundred of thousands of Kurds in a genocide.

.....since when did the US give a shit about the Kurds? :confused:

How was our detainment of prisoners of war a bad thing, did Vietnam give McCain a trial, heck no.

Yeah, let's sink to their level! Disgusting.

They have the right to due process. Period. They have the right not to be illegally tortured. Period.

And let's not forget how few of them are actually prisoners of war, unless civilians count in that category nowadays.

How was our detainment of prisoners of war a bad thing, did Vietnam give McCain a trial, heck no.

I can think of no way of responding to this statement.

Oh, and another thing, almost every nation outside of the Middle East supports Israel.

An enormous exaggeration. In other nations, there is debate.

"Our" here meaning the USA.
Then maybe that's your problem; folks aren't complaining about　population of the US, or (currently) about the concept of the USA, but about the policies and actions of the US government.

Then maybe that's your problem; folks aren't complaining about　population of the US, or (currently) about the concept of the USA…

Well, I am. But that's completely irrelevant. *shifty eyes*

When have we raped women? Any proof?
How was our detainment of prisoners of war a bad thing, did Vietnam give McCain a trial, heck no.
Secret prisons? How do you have any proof of them if we kept them secret?
Oh, and another thing, almost every nation outside of the Middle East supports Israel.

Iraq deserved our wrath because they paid the families of suicide bombers to attack our allies, and they murdered hundred of thousands of Kurds in a genocide.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6277145.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5322646.stm
Did the hundreds of thousands of dead and misplaced Iraqi citizens really deserve it?
And as far as I remember, Iraq was invaded for other reasons.

Almost everyone who is currently pointing at us and yelling 'bout our atrocities.

Those fanatic religious muslims would torture, behead all of us including thier own people just for disagreeing with thier brand of Islam. Not care about rights and treatment. Even if they scream and complain about our treatment of them. Far worse than anything we have done or could do to them, as wrong as it was.

Those fanatic religious muslims would torture, behead all of us…

When that happens, give us a ring, alright?

Those fanatic religious muslims would torture, behead all of us including thier own people just for disagreeing with thier brand of Islam. Not care about rights and treatment. Even if they scream and complain about our treatment of them. Far worse than anything we have done or could do to them, as wrong as it was.

Who, exactly?

Those fanatic religious muslims would torture, behead all of us including thier own people just for disagreeing with thier brand of Islam. Not care about rights and treatment. Even if they scream and complain about our treatment of them. Far worse than anything we have done or could do to them, as wrong as it was.

We should probably stop trying to outdo them, then.

When that happens, give us a ring, alright?

I am mostly but not all. Refering to the innocent people who have been kidnapped and beheaded on camera.

I will give you a ring from beyond the grave when that happens my friend, lol.

Who, exactly?

You know. "Them".

Canada?
Was with us the whole way.
France?
Rwandan genocide.
Germany?
They helped in Afghanistan if you'll remember.
Sweden?
Note the Asterisk in my post.
Nicaragua?

Why them?
Elusive indeed.
:rolleyes:
Quite unimportant. A Scandinavian one.
But I criticize countries and people other than the US, as does most others. May I remind you that this is a US-related topic. Saudi Arabia and China can wait.
*Curses the non-interventionist policies of Scandinavian countries*
Do you individually criticize everybody that's a hypocrite?

Whenever I get the chance.

You know. "Them".

A scary bunch to be sure.

Then maybe that's your problem; folks aren't complaining about　population of the US, or (currently) about the concept of the USA, but about the policies and actions of the US government.

And then they fail to criticize their own governments. It's the hypocrisy. it just gets to me. Anyway, any chance of getting back on topic?

Was with us the whole way.
Canada was supporting you in your atrocities?

I think you've lost what the original post was.

And then they fail to criticize their own governments.
Who?

When?

Where?

And then they fail to criticize their own governments. It's the hypocrisy. it just gets to me. Anyway, any chance of getting back on topic?

To answer your question, no.
Okay then, The United States of America has been involved in some less than desirable actions lately (since WW2 really). By the way, sorry 'bout the vikings.

Canada was supporting you in your atrocities?

I think you've lost what the original post was.

Yeah, anyone wanna get back on topic? Please?

Yeah, anyone wanna get back on topic? Please?

I don't think that's what PM meant.

Those fanatic religious muslims would torture, behead all of us including thier own people just for disagreeing with thier brand of Islam. Not care about rights and treatment. Even if they scream and complain about our treatment of them. Far worse than anything we have done or could do to them, as wrong as it was.

So what happens if we get the wrong person, as sometimes happens, and since we deny them their rights, say, to a fair trial, we never find out and torture random Joe?


Whenever I get the chance.

My point being, you don't need to individually criticize every entity that does something wrong each time you criticize one for doing that thing. Yeah, people are talking about what the US has done because the topic is about the US. People don't bring up other countries unless they are relevant at the time.

Those fanatic religious muslims would torture, behead all of us including thier own people just for disagreeing with thier brand of Islam. Not care about rights and treatment. Even if they scream and complain about our treatment of them. Far worse than anything we have done or could do to them, as wrong as it was.

So we should sink to their level? :confused:

And then they fail to criticize their own governments. It's the hypocrisy. it just gets to me. Anyway, any chance of getting back on topic?


My point being, you don't need to individually criticize every entity that does something wrong each time you criticize one for doing that thing. Yeah, people are talking about what the US has done because the topic is about the US. People don't bring up other countries unless they are relevant at the time.
That. You're under some delusion that people aren't critical of their own nations or other nations. When the topic is the US, I'm not going to waste breath by P.S.ing (Oh yeah, and China has a poor record with human rights, etc.) You only notice people complaining about the US because you got your US blinders on. You don't have to go further than this board to see people complaining about other nations issues, including their own. But you don't see that, all you see is "US US US US US US." This does not constitute hypocrisy on their part, but tunnel vision on your own.

Obama's change is not some magic policy decision-he's only applying for one of the three branches of government, he's not going to enact 'Clownsuit Fridays' or make breakfast dinner, and lunch what you eat at the end of the day. Looking at specific policy and saying, "But that's just like policy x! There's no change!!!" is willfully stupid. The change is in approach. The change in 'us vs. them' mentality that has permeated our government for the last ten years. Openness, things like the accessable database and discussion on not only the bills being passed (there already is one), but who is behind it. In fact, I'll let Sen. Obama explain it-
Shine the Light on Washington Lobbying

* Centralize Ethics and Lobbying Information for Voters: Obama will create a centralized Internet database of lobbying reports, ethics records, and campaign finance filings in a searchable, sortable and downloadable format.
* Require Independent Monitoring of Lobbying Laws and Ethics Rules: Obama will use the power of the presidency to fight for an independent watchdog agency to oversee the investigation of congressional ethics violations so that the public can be assured that ethics complaints will be investigated.

Shine the Light on Federal Contracts, Tax Breaks and Earmarks

* Create a Public “Contracts and Influence” Database: As president, Obama will create a "contracts and influence" database that will disclose how much federal contractors spend on lobbying, and what contracts they are getting and how well they complete them.
* Expose Special Interest Tax Breaks to Public Scrutiny: Barack Obama will ensure that any tax breaks for corporate recipients — or tax earmarks — are also publicly available on the Internet in an easily searchable format.
* End Abuse of No-Bid Contracts: Barack Obama will end abuse of no-bid contracts by requiring that nearly all contract orders over $25,000 be competitively awarded.
* Sunlight Before Signing: Too often bills are rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them. As president, Obama will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days.
* Shine Light on Earmarks and Pork Barrel Spending: Obama's Transparency and Integrity in Earmarks Act will shed light on all earmarks by disclosing the name of the legislator who asked for each earmark, along with a written justification, 72 hours before they can be approved by the full Senate.

Bring Americans Back into their Government

* Hold 21st Century Fireside Chats: Obama will bring democracy and policy directly to the people by requiring his Cabinet officials to have periodic national broadband townhall meetings to discuss issues before their agencies.
* Make White House Communications Public: Obama will amend executive orders to ensure that communications about regulatory policymaking between persons outside government and all White House staff are disclosed to the public.
* Conduct Regulatory Agency Business in Public: Obama will require his appointees who lead the executive branch departments and rulemaking agencies to conduct the significant business of the agency in public, so that any citizen can see in person or watch on the Internet these debates.
* Release Presidential Records: Obama will nullify the Bush attempts to make the timely release of presidential records more difficult.

Free the Executive Branch from Special Interest Influence

* Close the Revolving Door on Former and Future Employers: No political appointees in an Obama administration will be permitted to work on regulations or contracts directly and substantially related to their prior employer for two years. And no political appointee will be able to lobby the executive branch after leaving government service during the remainder of the administration.
* Free Career Officials from the Influence of Politics: Obama will issue an executive order asking all new hires at the agencies to sign a form affirming that no political appointee offered them the job solely on the basis of political affiliation or contribution.
* Reform the Political Appointee Process: FEMA Director Michael Brown was not qualified to head the agency, and the result was a disaster for the people of the Gulf Coast. But in an Obama administration, every official will have to rise to the standard of proven excellence in the agency's mission.
Essentially, transparency and accountability. Something that has been lacking.

What opponents have been painting as a 'flip flop' and a betrayal has actually been a fine example of what he offers, being willing to compromise on the drilling if it means getting a comprehensive energy plan through. Enough of the 'my way or the highway' 'don't let the kids know what we're doing' kind of government.

Thats the change. Tax, healthcare, and like policy are just what they are.

Looks to me like no one knows what freaking change Obama is going to bring.

Looks like CM and I win again!

Looks to me like no one knows what freaking change Obama is going to bring.

Looks like CM and I win again!

Look up...

Looks to me like no one knows what freaking change Obama is going to bring.

Looks like CM and I win again!
ignorance of policy is not the same as absence of policy.

Do you criticize everyone else that does so? If you don't, you're a hypocrite. If you do, good for you. You have the honor of being sensible.

That's not what "hypocrite" means.


Main Entry:
hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation:
\ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English ypocrite, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritēs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
Date:
13th century

1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings


So, unless a person normally is in favor of the sorts of actions they're currently condemning they're not a hypocrite. A hypocrite isn't someone who doesn't spread blame evenly.

Looks to me like no one knows what freaking change Obama is going to bring.

Looks like CM and I win again!

...

You did see the post immediately before yours, did you not?

Do you even read threads, or do you just repeatedly post your opinions without looking at other posts?

Honestly, I don't know what the big change to Washington he plans to bring is. What is it?

Well, he has promised to change seemingly everything about America except for the name. Now, couple that with the fact that as the president, will have supreme executive authority, and it's very realistic that he can accomplish everything that he is grandly promising all Americans (complete and total bliss for everyone, from everything I've seen).

Oh... thats right, the president doesn't have supreme executive power... hmm, well considering that anything he does, will have to be supported by congress, he won't be the sole accomplisher of turning America from the hellhole it is now, into the utopian bliss that Obama has promised. Not only will he have to share credit, but I'm not sure he understands how exactly the presidency works, because I have heard a lot of promises, and if Obama can't follow through (and I'm pretty sure he won't be able too, not even with the Civilian Defense Force [Obamasturmabteilung] to back up his 'peaceful' intentions), then I don't know what we're going to do... aside from wishing for the glory days of a Bush presidency.

Looks to me like no one knows what freaking change Obama is going to bring.

Looks like CM and I win again!
But..But... i already explained... And so did several others...