NationStates Jolt Archive

Upon his death I think it would be now relevant to open a brief parenthesis for Solzhenitsyn. This man became the official voice for the fiver per cent of Tsarists, bourgeois, speculators, kulaks, pimps, maffiosi and Vlasovites, all justifiably repressed by the socialist state.

Solzhenitsyn the bourgeois literary hack lived through a cruel dilemna during the Nazi occupation. Chauvinist, he hated the German invaders. But he hated socialism even more passionately. So he had a soft spot for General Vlasov, the most famous of the Nazi collaborators. Although Solzhenitsyn did not approve of Vlasov's flirt with Hitler, he was laudatory about his hatred of Bolshevism.

General Vlasov collaborated with the Nazis after having being captured? Solzhenitsyn found a way to explain and justify the treason. He wrote:

`Vlasov's Second Shock Army ... was 46 miles (70 kilometres) deep inside the German lines! And from then on, the reckless Stalinist Supreme Command could find neither men nor ammunition to reinforce even those troops .... The army was without food and, at the same time, Vlasov was refused permission to retreat ....

`Now this, of course, was treason to the Motherland! This, of course, was vicious, self-obsessed betrayal! But it was Stalin's .... It can include ignorance and carelessness in the preparations for war, confusion and cowardice at its very start, the meaningless sacrifice of armies and corps solely for the sake of saving one's own marshal's uniform. Indeed, what more bitter treason is there on the part of a Supreme Commander in Chief?'

Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago, 1918--1956. An Experiment in Literary Investigation I--II (New York: Harper & Row, 1974), p. 253, note.

So Solzhenitsyn defended the traitor Vlasov against Stalin. Let us look at what really happened in early 1942. Several armies had received the order to break the German blockade of Leningrad. But the offensive quickly got bogged down and the front commander, Khozin, received the order from Stalin's headquarters to withdraw Vlasov's army. Marshal Vasilevsky writes:

`Vlasov, who did not possess many gifts as a commander and, in fact, vacillating and cowardly by nature, was thoroughly inactive. The grave situation for the army demoralised him ever further and he made no attempt to withdraw his troops quickly and covertly ....

`I can with some authority confirm the extremely serious concern which Stalin displayed daily for the 2nd Shock Army and for rendering every possible assistance to them. This is evidenced by a whole series of GHQ directives that I personally wrote primarily to Stalin's dictation'.

Vlasov joined the enemy while a considerable part of his army succeeded in breaching through the German trap and in escaping.

A. M. Vasilevsky, A Lifelong Cause (Moscow: Progress, 1973), pp. 139--141.

Russians were hired in the Nazi army to combat the Soviet people? But, exclaimed Solzhenitsyn, it was Stalin's criminal régime that pushed them to do it:

`(M)en could be induced to enter the Wehrmacht's Vlasov detachments only in the last extremity, only at the limit of desperation, only out of inexhaustible hatred of the Soviet regime.'

Solzhenitsyn.

Besides, said Solzhenitsyn, the Vlasovian collaborators were more anti-Communist than pro-Nazi:

`(O)nly in the fall of 1944 did they begin to form Vlasov divisions that were exclusively Russian .... their first and last independent action, dealt a blow --- to the Germans themselves .... Vlasov ordered his divisions to the aid of the Czech rebels.'


This is the fable that has been repeated by Nazi and other fascist criminals of all countries: when the German fascists were on the verge of defeat, they all discovered their `national and independent' vocation and remembered their `opposition' to Germany, looking for protection under the wings of U.S. imperialism!

Solzhenitsyn did not object to the Germans being fascists, but to the fact that they were stupid and blind fascists. If they had been more intelligent, the German Nazis would have recognized the value of their Russian brothers-in-arms and they would have allowed them a certain level of autonomy:

`The Germans, in their shallow stupidity and self-importance, allowed them only to die for the German Reich, but denied them the right to plan an independent destiny for Russia.'

The war was still raging, Nazism was not clearly defeated, and Solzhenitsyn was already crying for the `inhuman' lot reserved for the arrested Vlasovian criminals! He described a scene after the cleaning-up of a Nazi pocket on Soviet territory:

`A prisoner on foot in German britches was crying out to me in pure Russian. He was naked from the waist up, and his face, chest, shoulders, and back were all bloody, while a sergeant osobist ... drove him forward with a whip .... I was afraid to defend the Vlasov man against the osobist .... This picture will remain etched in my mind forever. This, after all, is almost a symbol of the Archipelago. It ought to be on the jacket of this book.'


We should thank Solzhenitsyn for his disconcerting candor: the man who best incarnated the `millions of victims of Stalinism' was a Nazi collaborator.

He chose between the nazis and the commies, and he picked the slightly lesser of two evils.

all justifiably repressed
I don't care what your ideological background is...this is always wrong.

Also, it's utterly pathethic that once again, you've plagarised someone else's work

http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/node118.html

Your intellectual sloth is actually probably your least disgusting quality.

As I said in the other thread... predictable troll is predictable.

I think the mods should delete this thread since there is already a thread about the death of Solzhenitsyn.

He chose between the nazis and the commies, and he picked the slightly lesser of two evils.

Says the far-rightist, and we all know the far-right deny the Holocaust.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=562251

Learn to read the first page before you post a thread.
Also, it's utterly pathethic that once again, you've plagarised someone else's work

http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/node118.html

Your intellectual sloth is actually probably your least disgusting quality.
Properly crediting someone for their work is bourgeois, dontcha know.

sarists, bourgeois, speculators, kulaks, pimps, maffiosi and Vlasovites, all justifiably repressed by the socialist state.

I thought socialism was about total equality?

Or did you mean to be hypocritical?

Says the far-rightist, and we all know the far-right deny the Holocaust.

The Holocuast did happen. I don't deny it. The Nazis were evil, sick sadistic bastards. But the USSR was worse.

I thought socialism was about total equality?

Or did you mean to be hypocritical?

His intentions are irrelevant...he's not even presenting his own thoughts or words.

plagerizing troll is plagerizing (http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/node118.html)

plagerizing troll is plagerizing (http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/node118.html)

Soooo beat you to that.

Beat you.

Get it?

Muahahahhahaha :eek:

Says the far-rightist, and we all know the far-right deny the Holocaust.

Says the man who denies the Holodomor.

Now that is funny.

Andaras, I think I've asked you this before: do you actually know anything about the Progressive Labor Party?

Soooo beat you to that.

Beat you.

Get it?

Muahahahhahaha :eek:

....are you asking?

The Holocuast did happen. I don't deny it. The Nazis were evil, sick sadistic bastards. But the USSR was worse.
No, because your merely going on bourgeois B-movie stereotypes for your 'information', and your only real source on the 'gulags' myth is Solzhenitsyn, a proven Nazi collaborator.

No, because your merely going on bourgeois B-movie stereotypes for your 'information', and your only real source on the 'gulags' myth is Solzhenitsyn, a proven Nazi collaborator.

that, and, you know, the thousands upon thousands of eyewitness accounts from people who survived it.

that, and, you know, the thousands upon thousands of eyewitness accounts from people who survived it.

Bah, wasn't much of a genocide if there were all those survivors.

snip

So, don't care that you're a plagiarist and incapable of scanning the first page to see if there was an existing thread on this topic?

No, because your merely going on bourgeois B-movie stereotypes for your 'information', and your only real source on the 'gulags' myth is Solzhenitsyn, a proven Nazi collaborator.

And this plus sources...:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag

Going to come to the party?

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/10983440/Sarkofagus_Lux_Coffin.jpg

You bring the wine, I bring the rag and matches?

And this plus sources...:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag

Wikipedia is a bourgeois-nazi sympthizer.

Going to come to the party?

You bring the wine, I bring the rag and matches?

Um, wut the fuck?

Bah, wasn't much of a genocide if there were all those survivors.

nobody ever said Stalin was competant.

Wikipedia is a bourgeois-nazi sympthizer.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

nobody ever said Stalin was competant.

I'm sure Andaras has said it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Do you know what being facetious is?

nobody ever said Stalin was competant.

Only the people that deny that he is are Nazis and Facistics.

You know what would be amusing?

If we got a hardline fascist on this forum who was blindly fanatical in his/her ideology like the original poster!

Imagine the arguements he/she would have with Andaras!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Ever heard of sarcasm?

Or is that counterproductive to the glory of the workers?

You know what would be amusing?

If we got a hardline fascist on this forum who was blindly fanatical in his ideology like the original poster!

Imagine the arguements he/she would have with Andaras!

/Pure awesomeness

I'm sure Andaras has said it.
Sorry Ifreann, I know it's hard living in your pampered snob-petite-bourgeois world, but other people live in poverty so you can have the latest mobile phone you little pissy liberal.

Stalin liberated over 60,000,000 peasants from the feudal tyranny, poverty, barbarity and ignorance of kulak rule, he brought industrialization to the backward countryside and pulled an entire people out of the idiocy of rural life and into the modern world.

The kulaks murdered millions of their peasant 'subjects' because they rebelled and wanted to join socialist agriculture, they slaughtered cattle and burnt crops just because they lost their slaves. So if you want to defend that Ifreann then it's on you.

Well, considering Stalin was a moron that, by himself, did more against the cause of Socialism, Marxism and Communism than Adam Smith, Ronald Reagan, J. D. Rockefeller and McCarthy put together and squared, I don't think reality cares much about the Stalinists...

other people live in poverty

Maybe you should be donating the money you spend on an internet connection then.

petite-bourgeois

That's it. I'm done trying to elicit from you an actual answer on what "bourgeois" and "petite-bourgeois" mean!

READ THEM AND WEEP!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgeois

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_bourgeoisie

Feel free to explain to me, working with these definitions, where in those definitions is "people that disagree with Andaras regarding Stalin".

Well, considering Stalin was a moron that, by himself, did more against the cause of Socialism, Marxism and Communism than Adam Smith, Ronald Reagan, J. D. Rockefeller and McCarthy put together and squared, I don't think reality cares much about the Stalinists...

He wasn't a moron. He might have been a blood thirsty tyrant, but he was very far from a moron. In fact, he was probably the most intellectually gifted of the big three.

Maybe you should be donating the money you spend on an internet connection then.

Seconded.

That's it. I'm done trying to elicit from you an actual answer on what "bourgeois" and "petite-bourgeois" mean!

READ THEM AND WEEP!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgeois

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_bourgeoisie

Feel free to explain to me, working with these definitions, where in those definitions is "people that disagree with Andaras regarding Stalin".

It's patently obvious. They disagree with Andaras, therefore, they are Bourgeois.

Duh.

Well, considering Stalin was a moron that, by himself, did more against the cause of Socialism, Marxism and Communism than Adam Smith, Ronald Reagan, J. D. Rockefeller and McCarthy put together and squared, I don't think reality cares much about the Stalinists...

Not 'communism', Stalin did a great deal to liquidate the infantile left-wing-liberalism of pampered western snobs like you. Stalin industrialized a nation of some 100,000,000 in 10 ten years alone with the superior planned economy and liberated some 70,000,000 of them out of poverty and barbarism of the countryside and into an urban socialist order.

Not surprising seeing pro-imperialist Westerners defending feudalism though, I guess from your comfortable snob-lifestyle it must seem 'idyllic' to you.

Sorry Ifreann, I know it's hard living in your pampered snob-petite-bourgeois world, but....
Unless you live in it too, no you don't. So which is it, bourgeois or liar?


Oh, and I don't really know much about economics, so I generally don't weigh in on capitalism vs communism debates. But it's fun to see you rage at the slightest provocation. I mean, I point out that you probably think Stalin was competent and I'm a pampered snob-petite-bourgeois pissy liberal, oppressing the proletariat so I can get the latest mobile phone. Hilarious!

It's patently obvious. They disagree with Andaras, therefore, they are Beougeois.

Duh.

Red Tide, could you edit that quote?

Not 'communism', Stalin did a great deal to liquidate the infantile left-wing-liberalism of pampered western snobs like you. Stalin industrialized a nation of some 100,000,000 in 10 tens and liberated some 70,000,000 of them out of poverty and barbarism of the countryside and into an urban socialist order.

Not surprising seeing pro-imperialist Westerners defending feudalism though, I guess from your comfortable snob-lifestyle it must seem 'idyllic' to you.

That's it.

I'm the friggin' ACE OF SPADES of this forum.

You will now stop flaming me.

NOW. That's an ORDER.

Not 'communism', Stalin did a great deal to liquidate the infantile left-wing-liberalism of pampered western snobs like you. Stalin industrialized a nation of some 100,000,000 in 10 tens and liberated some 70,000,000 of them out of poverty and barbarism of the countryside and into an urban socialist order.

Not surprising seeing pro-imperialist Westerners defending feudalism though, I guess from your comfortable snob-lifestyle it must seem 'idyllic' to you.

Boy, you even got your facts wrong when getting it right would HELP your case.

Prior too June 1941, the population of the Soviet Union was just short of 200,000,000 people.

Of course, had World War 1 not occured, and by extension the Bolshevik Revolution, Russia would have industrialised anyways.

Maybe you should be donating the money you spend on an internet connection then.
So what are you saying, I should swap the money I use for internet use, which I congress with comrades in my Party and abroad, and give it into the bourgeois system (charity), no thanks.

Not 'communism', Stalin did a great deal to liquidate the infantile left-wing-liberalism of pampered western snobs like you. Stalin industrialized a nation of some 100,000,000 in 10 tens and liberated some 70,000,000 of them out of poverty and barbarism of the countryside and into an urban socialist order.

Not surprising seeing pro-imperialist Westerners defending feudalism though, I guess from your comfortable snob-lifestyle it must seem 'idyllic' to you.

And he killed only 20 million of his own people, and turned the bread basket of Eastern Europe into the world leader of imported grain.

So what are you saying, I should swap the money I use for internet use, which I congress with comrades in my Party and abroad, and give it into the bourgeois system (charity), no thanks.

so you're more interested in chatting online than helping the poor?

Fake communist.

So what are you saying, I should swap the money I use for internet use, which I congress with comrades in my Party and abroad, and give it into the bourgeois system (charity), no thanks.

Hmm... guess who(or more precisely, what) invented the internet.

Go on...

Well that was predictable. I thought perhaps starting a thread about his death would at least contain your blathering to a single thread, but obviously all attempts to stop mindless spam are fascist.

I've read your post several times, and the only horrors I can see listed are Solzhenitsyn's disgust for Stalin and his tactics. Did Solzhenitsyn run a secret death camp in Poland, or is his opposition to Stalin the whole of his crime?

Fake communist.

So was Stalin.

Hmm... guess who(or more precisely, what) invented the internet.

Go on...

Seriously, could you rectify the quoted, edited post?

Someone was never hugged as a child.

Seriously, could you rectify the quoted, edited post?

What do you want me too rectify? The fact that I misspelled Bourgeois?

Boy, you even got your facts wrong when getting it right would HELP your case.

Prior too June 1941, the population of the Soviet Union was just short of 200,000,000 people.

Of course, had World War 1 not occured, and by extension the Bolshevik Revolution, Russia would have industrialised anyways.

As history has shown the bourgeois would not have industrialized, and the Western puppet-masters of the Provisional Government would have ensured Russia remained backward so it was just a agricultural colony for the West. The barbarity of ruralism would have continued for God knows how long, China for example remained practically a medieval kingdom right up until the 19th century.

Let me return to the question of the alleged ‘failure of socialism’.

In an effort to prevent the building of socialism, in 1918 the new state was attacked by the armed forces of Britain, France, Poland and Japan. But despite the fact that the new Soviet state possessed at the outset neither an organized army nor experienced military men, the five-year War of Intervention ended in victory for the Soviets.

The opponents of socialism learned an important lesson from their defeat, namely, that socialism was most unlikely to be destroyed by direct offensive, but only from within, that is, by agents posing as socialists, working hard within the Communist Party so as to achieve positions of influence and then, in the name of ‘modernizing’ socialism, using this influence to divert the Party along political lines which would undermine socialism and gradually forfeit the support of working people for the Party.

It is a programme which Marxists call revisionism, because while revising Marxism in significantly harmful ways, it claims to be merely modernizing it.

'In the past we had no fatherland, nor could we have one. But now that we have overthrown capitalism and power is in our hands, in the hands of the people, we have a fatherland, and we will defend its independence. Do you want our socialist fatherland to be beaten and to lose its independence? If you do not want this you must put an end to its backwardness in the shortest possible time and develop genuine Bolshevik tempo in building up its socialist system of economy. There is no other way. That is why Lenin said on the eve of the October Revolution: "Either perish, or overtake and outstrip the advanced capitalist countries."

We are fifty or a hundred years behind the advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or we shall be crushed.' - Stalin

He wasn't a moron. He might have been a blood thirsty tyrant, but he was very far from a moron. In fact, he was probably the most intellectually gifted of the big three.

He wanted communism, he succeeded in toxifying its brand. So, yeah, he was a moron.

What do you want me too rectify? The fact that I misspelled Bourgeois?

No, my post you quoted. I edited it before you posted the response, I'd like you to put on the quote the edited version.

so you're more interested in chatting online than helping the poor?

Fake communist.

He's the textbook example of an Angry Internet Stalinist:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3263/2532425526_f6972e3a89.jpg?v=0

Not 'communism', Stalin did a great deal to liquidate the infantile left-wing-liberalism of pampered western snobs like you. Stalin industrialized a nation of some 100,000,000 in 10 ten years alone with the superior planned economy and liberated some 70,000,000 of them out of poverty and barbarism of the countryside and into an urban socialist order.

Not surprising seeing pro-imperialist Westerners defending feudalism though, I guess from your comfortable snob-lifestyle it must seem 'idyllic' to you.

Andaras, for those of you who didn't know, paid for his college education where he read all these neat theories by slaying members of the bourgeois, redistributing their wealth to the People, and (reluctantly!) accepting donations from the grateful liberated masses. Although it was against his righteous opposition to the elite intelligentsia to attend such a fascist institution as university, he compensated for it by ritually cutting himself each night and reproducing the whole of The Communist Manifesto in his own blood.

so you're more interested in chatting online than helping the poor?

Fake communist.

Get your bourgeois garbage out of my face fool. Charity does not help the poor, it engenders a culture of dependence and keeps the poor on the edge of poverty permanently reliant on the 'flick a penny to the beggar' system of capitalism.

I support the liberation of the proletariat and industrial modern socialism, I don't support keeping the entire working class in backwardness in welfare capitalism.

Andaras, for those of you who didn't know, paid for his college education where he read all these neat theories by slaying members of the bourgeois, redistributing their wealth to the People, and (reluctantly!) accepting donations from the grateful liberated masses. Although it was against his righteous opposition to the elite intelligentsia to attend such a fascist institution as university, he compensated for it by ritually cutting himself each night and reproducing the whole of The Communist Manifesto in his own blood.

and semen. He really likes Stalin.

I support the liberation of the proletariat and industrial modern socialism, I don't support keeping the entire working class in backwardness in welfare capitalism.

suuuuuuure you do. That's why you're spending so much time on the internet talking about it.

Oh you're so cute

As history has shown the bourgeois would not have industrialized, and the Western puppet-masters of the Provisional Government would have ensured Russia remained backward so it was just a agricultural colony for the West. The barbarity of ruralism would have continued for God knows how long, China for example remained practically a medieval kingdom right up until the 19th century.

Err... I said had there been no World War 1, without World War 1 there would have been no 'February Revolution', and therefore no Provisional Government.

China never had a chance to truly industrialise because it was systematically raped by outside powers during the 19th century then wracked with internal civil war that devestated much of the remaining infrastructure up until the communists took control. Even then, China's economy never really got off the ground until, :gasp: they started reforming more towards capitalism!

AMAZING!

EDIT: And you still fail to answer who created the internet!

Charity does not help the poor, it engenders a culture of dependence and keeps the poor on the edge of poverty permanently

Oh my god.

You sound like a cold hard neocon.....

Oh my god.

You sound like a cold hard neocon.....

Don't insult Neocons like that, not even THEY are that deluded.

You know what would be amusing?

If we got a hardline fascist on this forum who was blindly fanatical in his/her ideology like the original poster!

Imagine the arguements he/she would have with Andaras!

The potential for endless amusement...

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/johnnybmetal/teh4ce_is_strong1-1.jpg

Get your bourgeois garbage out of my face fool.

And if he doesn't? What will you do? And if I don't shut up? What will you do? YOU will stop flaming me, because I am me and you are you. But I have no obligation not to speak at your request, and neither does Neo Art. You will now quit this whole idiotic attempt at shutting us up.

After the previous week, I've come to the conclusion that the Paranoia RPG offers a more historically and philosophically accurate explanation of Communism than NSG's own Angry Internet Stalinist can ever hope to achieve.

Don't insult Neocons like that, not even THEY are that deluded.

Point taken.

After the previous week, I've come to the conclusion that the Paranoia RPG offers a more historically and philosophically accurate explanation of Communism than NSG's own Angry Internet Stalinist can ever hope to achieve.

Again, please don't think Andaras is a Communist or a Socialist or a Marxist. Neither was Stalin.

Again, please don't think Andaras is a Communist or a Socialist or a Marxist. Neither was Stalin.

If you understood how Paranoia depicts Communists in stereotypical cartoon villain fashion, you'd see what I was really saying.

"For us in Russia, communism is a dead dog, while, for many people in the West, it is still a living lion."

"Violence can only be concealed by a lie, and the lie can only be maintained by violence. Any man who has once proclaimed violence as his method is inevitably forced to take the lie as his principle."

"It is not because the truth is too difficult to see that we make mistakes. It may even lie on the surface; but we make mistakes because the easiest and most comfortable course for us is to seek insight where it accords with our emotions — especially selfish ones."

If you understood how Paranoia depicts Communists in stereotypical cartoon villain fashion, you'd see what I was really saying.

Oh, I know Paranoia, it's a great RPG, too bad I never got a group for it. But I'm just pointing it out for the non-gamers.

Again, please don't think Andaras is a Communist or a Socialist or a Marxist. Neither was Stalin.

It's pretty obvious you are a Western pampered snob, idealistic, probably an undergrad with his parents pumping him full of their petite-bourgeois exploitation-earnings to fund your 'student lifestyle'.

I have no time for self-confessed champagne latte 'Marxists' like you.

In an effort to prevent the building of socialism, in 1918 the new state was attacked by the armed forces of Britain, France, Poland and Japan.

Rather more than that.

These are the numbers of the foreign soldiers who occupied the indicated regions of Russia:

* 50,000 Czechoslovaks (along the Trans-Siberian railway)
* 28,000 Japanese, later increased to 70,000 (all in the Vladivostok region)
* 24,000 Greeks (in Crimea)
* 13,000 Americans (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
* 12,000 Poles (mostly in Crimea and the Ukraine)
* 4,000 Canadians (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
* 4,000 Serbs (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
* 4,000 Romanians (in the Arkhangelsk region)
* 2,000 Italians (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
* 2,000 Chinese (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
* 1,600 British (in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
* 1,200 French and French colonial (mostly in the Arkhangelsk and Vladivostok regions)
* 560 Australians (mostly in the Arkhangelsk regions)



[/PEDANTRY]

It's pretty obvious you are a Western pampered snob, idealistic, probably an undergrad with his parents pumping him full of their petite-bourgeois exploitation-earnings to fund your 'student lifestyle'.

I have no time for self-confessed champagne latte 'Marxists' like you.

I ordered you to stop.

It's pretty obvious you are a Western pampered snob, idealistic, probably an undergrad with his parents pumping him full of their petite-bourgeois exploitation-earnings to fund your 'student lifestyle'.

I have no time for self-confessed champagne latte 'Marxists' like you.

And I don't think he has time for your hero whorship of a bumpling, murdering Tyrant

I ordered you to stop.

A: He won't listen.
B: Just a fair warning. Acting like a mod if you are not a mod tends to bring the ire of the mods.

Rather more than that.



[/PEDANTRY]
Indeed, the forces of Capital and Reaction only resorted to subversive treacherous activities once their direct attempt to dislodge socialism was soundly defeated in the field.

I guess from your comfortable snob-lifestyle it must seem 'idyllic' to you.
Says the boy living in his parent's suburban home, posting from the latest ibook with his high speed internet connection...drinking frappucinos from the local Starbucks he gets to in his dad's Hummer.

Yeah.

So was Andaras born with Stalinism, like AIDS or Fetal Alcohol syndrome, or did he read the Manifesto upon liberating the proletarian uterus?

A: He won't listen.
B: Just a fair warning. Acting like a mod if you are not a mod tends to bring the ire of the mods.

To be sure, I'm not acting like a mod, I'm, rather, acting like his parent.

So was Andaras born with Stalinism, like AIDS or Fetal Alcohol syndrome, or did he read the Manifesto upon liberating the proletarian uterus?

I could so make an unflattering comment about the exact socialist/communist nature of his parents but that would be a cardable offense.

So was Andaras born with Stalinism, like AIDS or Fetal Alcohol syndrome, or did he read the Manifesto upon liberating the proletarian uterus?

The Manifesto had nothing to do with Stalin.

To be sure, I'm not acting like a mod, I'm, rather, acting like his parent.

If your actually his parent, please go to his room and beat some sense(whether in the literal or metaphorical sense) into him. If not, I suggest you don't waste your breath, as all you are going to do is get more flames covered in delusional communist propaganda.

And I don't think he has time for your hero whorship of a bumpling, murdering Tyrant
You only call him that because society tells you to believe it, not because it's true.

And I don't think he has time for your hero whorship of a bumpling, murdering Tyrant

*Adds*

...that was NOT A MARXIST.

The Manifesto had nothing to do with Stalin.

Nuh uh, you bourgeoisie snob. . .elitist. . .college. . .CAPITALIST!

As history has shown the bourgeois would not have industrialized, and the Western puppet-masters of the Provisional Government would have ensured Russia remained backward so it was just a agricultural colony for the West. The barbarity of ruralism would have continued for God knows how long, China for example remained practically a medieval kingdom right up until the 19th century.

Let me return to the question of the alleged ‘failure of socialism’.

In an effort to prevent the building of socialism, in 1918 the new state was attacked by the armed forces of Britain, France, Poland and Japan. But despite the fact that the new Soviet state possessed at the outset neither an organized army nor experienced military men, the five-year War of Intervention ended in victory for the Soviets.

The opponents of socialism learned an important lesson from their defeat, namely, that socialism was most unlikely to be destroyed by direct offensive, but only from within, that is, by agents posing as socialists, working hard within the Communist Party so as to achieve positions of influence and then, in the name of ‘modernizing’ socialism, using this influence to divert the Party along political lines which would undermine socialism and gradually forfeit the support of working people for the Party.

It is a programme which Marxists call revisionism, because while revising Marxism in significantly harmful ways, it claims to be merely modernizing it.

'In the past we had no fatherland, nor could we have one. But now that we have overthrown capitalism and power is in our hands, in the hands of the people, we have a fatherland, and we will defend its independence. Do you want our socialist fatherland to be beaten and to lose its independence? If you do not want this you must put an end to its backwardness in the shortest possible time and develop genuine Bolshevik tempo in building up its socialist system of economy. There is no other way. That is why Lenin said on the eve of the October Revolution: "Either perish, or overtake and outstrip the advanced capitalist countries."

We are fifty or a hundred years behind the advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or we shall be crushed.' - Stalin



STOP YER PLAGERIZING (http://freespace.virgin.net/pep.talk/Bland.htm).

Good to see people reverting to personal attack when I question their class basis and the class basis of their ideas. Anyone who criticizes Stalin is always on an exorbitant wage.

You only call him that because society tells you to believe it, not because it's true.

To be sure, the 20 million corpses left in his wake also help, no, don't they? But I, for one, am safe in the knowledge that Stalin was just a socialist/marxist/communist wannabe.

Ok, sure. There wasn't a ready-to-use bit for this occasion for you, so you mucked it. It's ok. These things happen. People die, but enemies of the state like Big S deserve more.

You only call him that because society tells you to believe it, not because it's true.

http://thesituationist.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/stephen-colbert.jpg

Yes, because Reality also has a Bourgeois Bias.

Good to see people reverting to personal attack when I question their class basis and the class basis of their ideas. Anyone who criticizes Stalin is always on an exorbitant wage.

You're intellectually dishonest, period.

Not worthy of debate...apparently all you can do is recyle other people's words.

Good to see people reverting to personal attack when I question their class basis and the class basis

You are the only one here resorting to personal attacks.

Good to see people reverting to personal attack when I question their class basis and the class basis of their ideas. Anyone who criticizes Stalin is always on an exorbitant wage.

And what are you? Are you simply a prole? Or, more likely, an unemployed 30-40 year old with no job prospects and a healthy disrespect for those damn Capitalists and their free market.

You are the only one here resorting to personal attacks.

Nope. I'm doing it too.

You only call him that because society tells you to believe it, not because it's true.

Yes, because the millions he killed can't argue back. Just like the dead jews can't talk about the holocaust, or the Native Americans that were killed in 1800s can't say anything about how they were killed.

There are examples of Gulags in Russia. Go visit one. Talk to the tour guides. Many are former inmates there. See there scars hear their tales. Maybe you will realize that Stalin was evil.

Sorry Ifreann, I know it's hard living in your pampered snob-petite-bourgeois world, but other people live in poverty so you can have the latest mobile phone you little pissy liberal.

And over twenty million people died so Stalin and his Communist cohorts could live like Tsars while suppressing the soviet populace, while people like you happily buy into this bullshit. GTFO my internets.

Good to see people reverting to personal attack when I question their class basis and the class basis of their ideas. Anyone who criticizes Stalin is always on an exorbitant wage.

Oh, don't act all high and mighty now.

After all you do the same thing...

*Adds*

...that was NOT A MARXIST.
You are not a Marxist, you look at 'ideas' like you look at commodities.

'ohhh look mummy can I have that nice television'

'ohh look daddy can I have that nice watch'

'ohh look mummy can I be a Marxist too, it would be cool to be be one and tell my friends I am one'

You are not a Marxist, you look at 'ideas' like you look at commodities.

'ohhh look mummy can I have that nice television'

'ohh look daddy can I have that nice watch'

'ohh look mummy can I be a Marxist too, it would be cool to be be one and tell my friends I am one'

Resorting to personal attacks again, now are we?

And over twenty million people died so Stalin and his Communist cohorts could live like Tsars while suppressing the soviet populace, while people like you happily buy into this bullshit. GTFO my internets.

Nice to see your spewing capitalist venom, I am sure the bourgeois are proud of you.

And over twenty million people died so Stalin and his Communist cohorts could live like Tsars while suppressing the soviet populace, while people like you happily buy into this bullshit. GTFO my internets.

Quote for Truth