NationStates Jolt Archive

Nobel prize winning Russian author Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn dies at age 89 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080803/wl_nm/russia_solzhenitsyn_dc)

Solzhenitsyn served with the Red Army in World War Two but became one of the most prominent dissidents of the Soviet era, enduring labor camps, cancer and persecution by Soviet officialdom.

His experience in the network of labor camps was vividly described in his "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich."

...

Stripped of his citizenship and sent into exile in 1974 after the publication of "The Gulag Archipelago," his monumental history of the Soviet police state, the writer settled in the United States, returning to post-Soviet Russia as a hero in 1994.

The world has lost a voice for liberty.

And we all know Andaras will come into this thread and spout derogatory and unwarranted epithets.

have they checked for polonium?

sad day indeed but at least he outlived the Soviet Union

The world has lost a voice for liberty.

And we all know Andaras will come into this thread and spout derogatory and unwarranted epithets.

Indeed it has. I fear that as my grandfather's generation disappears we become ever more removed from both the horrors and revelations of the first half of the 20th century, and all we learned from them. The children I teach today are 50 years or more removed from the Holocaust, Japanese internment camps, the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima--these things are as distant to them as the Civil War was to me when I was in school, yet they took place less than a decade before my parents were born. Writers like Solzhenitsyn are essential I think to keep these things alive in the minds of today's generation, and tomorrow's.

He was a crabby bastard, but he wasn't afraid of voicing his opinions and that's what mattered.

And in before Angry Internet Stalinist Celebrates Death of Al Solzhenitsyn.

He's...He's dead? Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn is dead? It would seem that all the great authors are dying out.:(

The world has lost a voice for liberty.

I'd say. *cries*

This is depressing. Solzhenitsyn was one of my favourite authors.

I celebrate now that bourgeois traitor and Nazi collaborator is dead.

Andaluciae; two hours, thirteen minutes.

He was a crabby bastard, but he wasn't afraid of voicing his opinions and that's what mattered.

And in before Angry Internet Stalinist Celebrates Death of Al Solzhenitsyn.


I celebrate now that bourgeois traitor and Nazi collaborator is dead.

Predictable Stalinist troll is predictable, and Stalinist.

Predictable Stalinist troll is predictable, and Stalinist.

He even made a thread to counter this, just ignore it. If we respond, we give him validity. (Is that a word?)

He even made a thread to counter this, just ignore it. If we respond, we give him validity. (Is that a word?)

It is, and where is this thread? I can at least read it for lulz.

He even made a thread to counter this, just ignore it. If we respond, we give him validity. (Is that a word?)

Oops, sorry, I already posted in it. I won't do it again.

And yes, validity is a word.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=562258

Here's the link Derscon if you haven't already looked. It's just the usual rant.

Nobel prize winning Russian author Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn dies at age 89 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080803/wl_nm/russia_solzhenitsyn_dc)

R.I.P. Sir, you have my undying admiration.:hail:

"I am of course confident that I will fulfill my tasks as a writer in all circumstances — from my grave even more successfully and more irrefutably than in my lifetime. No one can bar the road to truth, and to advance its cause I am prepared to accept even death. But may it be that repeated lessons will finally teach us not to stop the writer’s pen during his lifetime? At no time has this ennobled our history."

Wouldn't it be awesome if someone like spray painted a Swastika on his gravestone? (that would be epic)

Wouldn't it be awesome if someone like spray painted a Swastika on his gravestone? (that would be epic)

Already did it. (On Stalin's gravestone that is)

gtfo. Now.

There's a nice blog post about him here (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/3/181758/1711/504/561907).

I've enjoyed the work by him I read, but I'll admit that I'm too young to really appreciate his import in context.

Already did it. (On Stalin's gravestone that is)

XD Hey, Stalinism and Fascism are effectively the same thing. The only difference is instead of the corporate owners being in bed with the leader, the leader IS the corporate owner.

Wouldn't it be awesome if someone like spray painted a Swastika on his gravestone? (that would be epic)

That would be a vibrant manifestation of free speech, and you have already proclaimed yourself to be virulently opposed to such a notion.

There's a nice blog post about him here (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/3/181758/1711/504/561907).

I've enjoyed the work by him I read, but I'll admit that I'm too young to really appreciate his import in context.

Indeed. I'm only 18 and American, and can't fully appreciate his work, but I've read a good bit, and done a few projects. A truly marvelous person.

He was a wonderful author and a much-needed voice in the world. I hope he's still writing in the afterlife.

Trolls here are funny because they lack the intelligence to say something...intelligent or grounded. Oh well.

He was a wonderful author and a much-needed voice in the world. I hope he's still writing in the afterlife.

Trolls here are funny because they lack the intelligence to say something...intelligent or grounded. Oh well.

When much of your world view is dependent upon sticking your head in the sand and resolutely ignoring decades of first-hand testimony and evidence that runs counter to your ideals, it's difficult to make intelligent and grounded arguments. Generally those must include some element of "truth".

So glad the other thread got locked and closed, it was just bad over there.

On Russian gulags under Soviet rule:

"Thanks to the work of these and other writers, we can now see that Feliks Dzerzinsky, Lenin's chief of secret police, was mulling over a plan to use prisoners to exploit the Soviet Union's empty, mineral-rich far north as early as 1925; that the early camps in the Solovetsky Islands, run by the OGPU (then the name for the secret police), were the first to try to make prisoner labor profitable; and how the OGPU--with Stalin's full support--then wrested the entire prison system away from the justice and interior ministries in a series of institutional battles by the end of the 1920s.

We also know that it was precisely at this point that the Soviet camps ceased to be a harsh but recognizable form of the Western penal system and instead became something quite new. They became part of the Plan--the Five-Year Plan, that is--the program to industrialize the Soviet Union at inhuman speed. Although camp "cultural-education sections" would continue to spin propaganda about "rehabilitation" until Stalin's death, prisoners, in practice, ceased to be regarded as human beings and were rather considered to be expendable labor, to be fed as little as possible and worked as hard as possible. The essence of the OGPU's "profitable" system, invented in the Solovetsky Islands in the 1920s and sold so successfully to Stalin, was to feed prisoners according to their productivity. Prisoners were at times murdered in mass killings, at times deliberately frozen to death in punishment "isolators," and at times shot by guards eager to claim bonuses for killing "escapees"; but for the most part, it was this system for allotting or denying food to prisoners, not deliberate killing, that caused the greatest number of deaths. The weak prisoner, in the famous words of one survivor, quickly falls into a vicious circle. Since he cannot do his full quota of work, he does not receive the full bread ration; his undernourished body is still less able to meet the demands, and so he gets less and less bread. He employs his last remaining strength to creep off into an out-of-the-way cornerà. Only the fearful cold finds him out and mercifully gives him his sole desire: peace, sleep, death.

By the time the camps began to expand in the late 1920s, the Soviet Union, a society allegedly inspired by Marx and Marxism, had taken the commodification of labor to new heights. In the concentration camps that emerged at the beginning of the 1930s, human beings' worth was calculated, like that of the camp horses, in units of labor. Perhaps unexpectedly, this attitude was already clearly reflected in the language of the Gulag's original founders, who, when they met in 1929 to discuss the expansion of the camps, spoke among themselves almost entirely in terms of economics.

According to the records of their conversations, the ministers and Politburo members who were planning what was to become one of the cruelest prison systems in the world never discussed the need to punish prisoners, never mentioned their living conditions, and certainly never referred to the official ideology of "re-education" in their internal debates about the new system, which went on for about a year. Stalin, although not present, took a great interest in the proceedings, occasionally intervening if the "wrong" conclusions were reached."

I haven't read The Gulag Archipelago yet, but I will borrow my dad's copy next time I visit. The soviet forced labor camps were definitely at least equal to the Holocaust in inhumanity. A government that can punish anyone for even the slightest remark without trial is a blight on human history. I hope we can reverse the course of the US before we go any further in that direction.

Good luck with that.

Of course, because of the Soviet sympathizers in the media and artistic elite in America, all of that went ignored by the West.

in b4 McCarthy.

Wouldn't it be awesome if someone like spray painted a Swastika on his gravestone? (that would be epic)

Andaras, you are my favorite troll on NSG. Mostly because you try so hard to be taken seriously and are so very good at being one. I just thought you should know this.

A shame Solzhenitsyn died, though. I never read anything he wrote, but he sounds like a pretty cool guy.

You should. One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich is a good start. Some epic stuff.

Also, Andaras got b&, so he can't hear you.

Andaras, you are my favorite troll on NSG. Mostly because you try so hard to be taken seriously and are so very good at being one. I just thought you should know this.

A shame Solzhenitsyn died, though. I never read anything he wrote, but he sounds like a pretty cool guy.
You should read some of his books. Very good writing.
You should. One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich is a good start. Some epic stuff.

Also, Andaras got b&, so he can't hear you.
He...He was perma-banned... The balance of Nationstates has been upset! *Apocalypse happens*

You should read some of his books. Very good writing.

He...He was perma-banned... The balance of Nationstates has been upset! *Apocalypse happens*

Seriously? Did he say something unusually egregious that I didn't see, or did he just finally find the end of the Mods' Limitless Patience and Forgiveness, May Their Names Be a Blessing?

Seriously? Did he say something unusually egregious that I didn't see, or did he just finally find the end of the Mods' Limitless Patience and Forgiveness, May Their Names Be a Blessing?

According to the mods...

The flaming, spamming, etc will stop.

Andaras has been given well above and beyond the usual two-strikes before deletion, and has made it clear that he has no intention or desire of behaving in accordance with the rules of this website. As such, he is no longer welcome on Nationstates.


~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~Master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku
__________________

Quite often I hear of someone's death only to think - 'wasn't he dead already?'

This is another of those cases.

RIP Andaras as well, can't say I'd have bet against a perma-ban but it's a shame nonetheless, he could be humorous when he wanted to be.

RIP Andaras as well, can't say I'd have bet against a perma-ban but it's a shame nonetheless, he could be humorous when he wanted to be.

I thought the perma ban was a bit OTT. There are plenty of other relentless one issue posters that get away with it, why pick on Andaras just because he was more tongue in cheek.

I thought the perma ban was a bit OTT. There are plenty of other relentless one issue posters that get away with it, why pick on Andaras just because he was more tongue in cheek.

It's the constant flamebaiting along with the habitual cut-and-paste plagiarism that finally added up. He didn't want to follow the rules of the Bourgeois Forum so he got exiled to Siberia.

It's the constant flamebaiting along with the habitual cut-and-paste plagiarism that finally added up. He didn't want to follow the rules of the Bourgeois Forum so he got exiled to Siberia.

Well, he's hardly the first to cut and paste either, other posters have done such in the past and gotten away with it - and not just DK before you ask. (And I don't really understand the hard-on about that on NSG anyway, it's not as if it's some kind of top notch think tank around here).

I guess he was a little flamebaitey, but it didn't seem permaban worthy. He was hardly a super disruptive person, and was easily ignored.

Also because he'd worn out three nations with the same old schtick, had no interest in obeying the rules, and wasn't about to change. We can has back on topics now plz? Alexander Solzhenitsyn is rather more interesting than Andaras.

Actually, in an Epic Feat of getting on topic:

Andaras is a wonderful example of why more people should Read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. The unfortunate blind eye most of the world has turned to the oppression and tragedies imposed and created by such tyrannical regimes got a nice poke with his writings, and as it has happened in every single attempt of such ideology, perhaps some rethinking needs to occur. Solzhenitsyn kept that debate alive.

Actually, in an Epic Feat of getting on topic:

Andaras is a wonderful example of why more people should Read Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. The unfortunate blind eye most of the world has turned to the oppression and tragedies imposed and created by such tyrannical regimes got a nice poke with his writings, and as it has happened in every single attempt of such ideology, perhaps some rethinking needs to occur. Solzhenitsyn kept that debate alive.

Indeed he did, and managed in the process (in my opinion) to neither demonize the Motherland and communism nor to embrace Western democracy and individualism. While he was justifiably accused of being relentlessly nationalistic, I feel like he managed to turn a critical eye on many of the horrors that Stalin's regime so desperately tried to sweep under the rug and maintain his love for and pride of Russia and what she could be. James Baldwin did the same for the U.S., and was alternately praised for exposing the dark underbelly of the nation, and denounced as a traitor.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with criticizing that which you love, nor in feeling compassion for those that you oppose. Situations in life are never just two-sided, and anyone who tries to boil their position down to "this is right and that is wrong" has to hide a mountain of facts from themselves and everyone else.


I hope that made sense, I'm a little stoned.

While I am sadly unfamiliar with the man's work, any loss of human life is a tragedy, as is the loss of any defender of freedom and foe of totalitarianism. May he find the rest and peace he deserves.

I do have to ask though, weather he was actually a Nazi collaborator. While I'm inclined to dismiss that claim due to its origin, I have yet to see it refuted. I must admit that I would find such sympathy for a former Nazi somewhat disturbing.

-tear- Farewell sir.

Alexander Solzhenitsyn is rather more interesting than Andaras.
This.


Solzhenitsyn showed people the rotten core of a system and what people do to each other purely because they're told to. One Day in the Life and the Archipelago were fantastic and eye opening reads.

Although, I thought he had died several years ago to be honest.

Also because he'd worn out three nations with the same old schtick, had no interest in obeying the rules, and wasn't about to change. We can has back on topics now plz? Alexander Solzhenitsyn is rather more interesting than Andaras.

3? There was more than one Andaras?:eek:

Indeed he did, and managed in the process (in my opinion) to neither demonize the Motherland and communism nor to embrace Western democracy and individualism. While he was justifiably accused of being relentlessly nationalistic, I feel like he managed to turn a critical eye on many of the horrors that Stalin's regime so desperately tried to sweep under the rug and maintain his love for and pride of Russia and what she could be. James Baldwin did the same for the U.S., and was alternately praised for exposing the dark underbelly of the nation, and denounced as a traitor.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with criticizing that which you love, nor in feeling compassion for those that you oppose. Situations in life are never just two-sided, and anyone who tries to boil their position down to "this is right and that is wrong" has to hide a mountain of facts from themselves and everyone else.


I hope that made sense, I'm a little stoned.

You should probably post stoned more often if it comes out like that.

A shame Solzhenitsyn died, though. I never read anything he wrote, but he sounds like a pretty cool guy.

Read 'one day in the life of Ivan Denisovich'
After reading it
read some of the accounts of german concentration camp survivors.

If you were Russian and you were a victim of the various purges, you were sent into a camp system where 1000's of people were worked to death
If you were German and you were a victim of the nazi purges, you were sent into a camp system where 1000's of people were worked to death
Spot the difference.

And its sad to see the loss of our delusional stalinist cutter and paster..................... actually no it is'nt :D

While he was justifiably accused of being relentlessly nationalisticTo be entirely fair, his nationalism extended to every nation - unlike most other nationalists he was only a nationalist, not an imperialist, and as such, understanding of the independence-desires of breakaway micro-nationalities (Say, Estonia).

Can't say I mind that. Fair is fair.

I'd disagree on a rather large number of other issues, of course, but hey. That doesn't take away from his integrity.

You should probably post stoned more often if it comes out like that.

Heh. I'll take that into consideration. ;)

To be entirely fair, his nationalism extended to every nation - unlike most other nationalists he was only a nationalist, not an imperialist, and as such, understanding of the independence-desires of breakaway micro-nationalities (Say, Estonia).

Excellent point. His belief that Russia had a separate past and path than most of the West, and that she needed to develop in her own way rather than be "liberated" by democracy, upset the West just as much as his criticisms of communism upset his own country.

I read my first of his novels only a few weeks ago - Cancer Ward. It was very insightful, and thoroughly enjoyable. I'm going to look for Denisovich when I'm next at a second-hand book store or an Oxfam.

Excellent point. His belief that Russia had a separate past and path than most of the West, and that she needed to develop in her own way rather than be "liberated" by democracy, upset the West just as much as his criticisms of communism upset his own country.

But really, can you blame him? Russia isn't the West. Russia has always been distinctly different from the West. It also never experienced a genuine industrial revolution, it was only forced along by Stalin's purges and slavery.

But really, can you blame him? Russia isn't the West. Russia has always been distinctly different from the West. It also never experienced a genuine industrial revolution, it was only forced along by Stalin's purges and slavery.

Oh, not at all. I didn't meant to imply that I disagreed, just that it upset the West. I actually find it quite refreshing that he managed to hold both views in tension and dared to say, this isn't the way to do it, but this isn't the way, either. I think Russia has a long way to go toward developing into the kind of nation its people want, and I don't think a traditional Western capitalist democracy is ultimately at the end of that path.

Indeed it has. I fear that as my grandfather's generation disappears we become ever more removed from both the horrors and revelations of the first half of the 20th century, and all we learned from them. The children I teach today are 50 years or more removed from the Holocaust, Japanese internment camps, the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima--these things are as distant to them as the Civil War was to me when I was in school, yet they took place less than a decade before my parents were born. Writers like Solzhenitsyn are essential I think to keep these things alive in the minds of today's generation, and tomorrow's.

Having been a Teacher myself...I echo this sentiment...