NationStates Jolt Archive

There is a thorough ingraining in American society of the liberal/anarchist/libertarian defense of hate speech and reaction. This is the argument repeated ad nauseum that says the problem of reactionary or hateful media is merely one of interpretation. The liberals thus argue from this obviously capitalist position, saying that art is “subjective.” This appeals to the hyper-individualism that American imperialism has spread and propagated. As typical individualists, they see nothing in art that could possibly cause reaction and shifts in ideology, or at best they think there might be chances for such expressions to be rebutted through OTHERS exercising “free speech,” even though speech is not free and public opinion can be swayed by any Hollywood propaganda like “Red Dawn.” Trotskyites speak along these same lines—they think not allowing people “freedom of expression” is “undemocratic” (note the complete absence of class analysis in those terms). In the end, such ideas can only be justified by Ayn Rand individualism, giving some individuals exclusive rights over the rest of society, which is an element of bourgeois structure.

As a Marxist-Leninists I would gladly trade in imaginary and idealist “free speech” rights, which are mostly the concerns of the petty-bourgeoisie and the elitist liberal intellectuals, in exchange for an end to more serious oppressions involving antagonistic classes, racism, sexism, imperialism and bourgeois violence such as the police, the army, the state, etc. Indeed, we of the working classes would much prefer the freedom from starvation, homelessness, unemployment, death from disease due to lack of health care, and perhaps the freedom to not have to watch our sisters sell their bodies or our brothers deal drugs to pay the rent.

This fact is obvious enough—that liberalism fails to acknowledge class oppression as structural, and the fact that the system within the oppressed peoples is appropriated by the oppressors without consent, which is a structural fact of bourgeoisie society. The system and material basis for the system must change before individual’s interpretation can.

Entertainment in particular is vulnerable to such bourgeois programming, since the culture of any given nation is determined by its ruling class. According to Marxist theory, all culture has a class nature and ideology to it.

24 – The corn-fed American gun-toting, flag-waving, bible-thumping conservative hunts “terrorists” (brown people) all over the world, using torture and Jesus in a chauvinist Chuck Norris-esque fashion.

South Park – Constantly promotes the most libertarian position possible, pro-imperialist and promotes hate speech and discrimination.

Veggietales – Whip this out at an atheist liberal and see what he thinks of his “freedom of speech!”

Bones – There was once an episode where a “rehabilitated” soccer mom, who was a former revolutionary from the 70s was going to TURN HERSELF IN for…wait for it… KILLING A COP BACK IN THE 70s (omfg you guyz, revolution sux, it kills people who kill people). In the end it turns out she was murdered by another former revolutionary from her own gang. Wow, those godless hippies.
Yes, it seems that the guy who killed her is actually the one who killed the cop and that the soccer mom tried to get in the way to protect the cop. Don’t ask.

At the end, from TV.com: “A drunk Booth is sitting with Brennan, and he talks about how he loves America and Brennan says that she now believes that her father does love her.”

NCIS – During every episode having to do with the war they refer to Iraq being “liberated.” There is also constant pro-Zionist stuff because of having an Israeli character on there. YES, one of the “good guys” is a goddamn Mossad agent!

Carlos Mencia – Racist and then some. Also, not funny, which is more of a trespass for comedy in itself than casual racism.

Even though this isn't technically a TV show, the commercials recruiting for U.S. Army.

Superman - It's always Superman protecting private property (the giant riches in banks or vaults from robbers and other villains), furthermore it gives off the idea that the defense of private property is the same as the defense of the fatherland (decidedly fascist I think).

"Gangsta" rap Black culture -glorified lumpenproletarial social scum, crime and 'informal' capitalist exploitation, ie pimping, drug dealing, racketeering, murder etc.

Aladdin is great; Disney's take on Arab culture.

I don't know if you guys remember the "duck tales" series from TV, but that was also great ,where most of the episodes involve billionaire uncle scrooge "finding" treasure, and trying to protect his riches from Lumpens who want to rob him.

Disney in general depicts bourgeois life as the greatest. I can't remember one Disney film that didn't center around some sort of aristocracy, whether it be queens,kings, rich men/women, their children, fancy large estates, people wearing long silk dresses all day long, etc. I can't think of anything that wasn't overly materialistic or a piece of bourgeois propaganda. It's all fairy tales about bourgeois life in France or Britain. All the main characters are of the privileged class in whatever society it takes place. A few basic examples are Cinderella and Beauty and the Beast.

There aren't many children's films in the US though that serve beyond that when you think about it. The movies often portray poor people as "uncivilized", the heroes are always from bourgeois families and live in the largest homes while enjoying the riches. Even if it doesn't focus on material things, then it focuses on historical events and is often directed against the USSR. The worst thing is that children are taught in elementary school that the USSR was more repressive than Nazi Germany. It's that kind of BS that has recreated the red scare over and over again.

I'm not sure if you've ever heard of it, but there's a film that ran on HBO, a made-for-TV film, which they have tapes at almost every library, titled "Stalin". The director also produced "The Godfather". Anyhow, it portrays Stalin as a "murderer" and the entire film centers around anti-Stalinist propaganda from the Brezhnev-era, not to mention crap about how "Stalin was a bad father" and the usual bourgeois propaganda regarding the USSR. It's rather disturbing how little REAL history Americans actually know.


For me the most reactionary Disney film ever produced was Anastasia. It portrays the Czarists as heroes and communism as repressive.

What, no Spongebob?

For me the most reactionary Disney film ever produced was Anastasia. It portrays the Czarists as heroes and communism as repressive.

How much effort does it take to maintain this caricature-like facade of anti-capitalism? I mean, if Saturday Night Live set out to parody Karl Marx, I don't think they could do a better job.

i dont suppose you could summarize that a bit and tell me what your point was and what you are proposing?

i read it but i dont see what you are wanting. you would trade the "free speech" right to put crap on tv for .....?

i dont suppose you could summarize that a bit and tell me what your point was and what you are proposing?

i read it but i dont see what you are wanting. you would trade the "free speech" right to put crap on tv for .....?
I am not really proposing anything in this thread, my positions are well known, this is just my reflection on the particular impact of the ruling class upon entertainment in America in particular (and Western bourgeois states in general).

Do you want spelling and grammar assistance with that?

and a question:
In reference to:
Disney in general depicts bourgeois life as the greatest. I can't remember one Disney film that didn't center around some sort of aristocracy, whether it be queens,kings, rich men/women, their children, fancy large estates, people wearing long silk dresses all day long, etc. I can't think of anything that wasn't overly materialistic or a piece of bourgeois propaganda. It's all fairy tales about bourgeois life in France or Britain. All the main characters are of the privileged class in whatever society it takes place. A few basic examples are Cinderella and Beauty and the Beast.

Please explain
- Finding Nemo
- Alice in Wonderland
- A Bugs Life
- Cars
- Lilo and Stitch
- Monsters Inc
- Nightmare before Christmas
- The Tigger Movie
- Toy Story
- Who framed Rodger Rabbit.
in the above context.

thats 10 out of 33 movies from: http://www.google.com/Top/Arts/Movies/Studios/Walt_Disney_Pictures/Animation/Movies/

that i think it would be quite a stretch to justify that.

Heh a rant a day huh!

I would like to ask Andaras, how is it that he can spend so much time online here? Is he using the works PC, what does he do for work? Is he at home? How can he afford to be at home online?

I smell a rat, a capatalist rat!

Do you want spelling and grammar assistance with that?

Spelling and grammar are merely tools used to protect bourgeois economic interest by making the proletariat seem foolish and unintelligent due to their lack of correct spelling and poor grammatical syntax, thus forcing them to remain labourers unable to climb up the ladder.

As a Marxist-Leninists I would gladly trade in imaginary and idealist “free speech” rights *snippage* in exchange for an end to more serious oppressions

I say we give him what he wants, by DEATing him, banning his IP range, and disconnecting his internet connection.

In that case, why have any punctuation at all?
Originally language didnt even bother with spaces... the space bar is obviously a symbol of oppression to you... I do hope you have now removed it from your computer.

For your edification: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation#History
wikied cause i CBFed looking for a better source

In that case, why have any punctuation at all?
Originally language didnt even bother with spaces... the space bar is obviously a symbol of oppression to you... I do hope you have now removed it from your computer.

indeedihaveyoubourgeoisscum!

What, no Spongebob?


His working at the burger place is to enslave young minds to the capitalist chain of toil and indebtness, I'd say. Plus his yellow colour is representative of the enslavment of something by some one, somewhere somehow.

What, no Spongebob?

Spongebob is the exception; he represents the struggle of the proletariat enslaved by Capitalists, represented by the eponymous owner of Krusty Krab.

His best friend Patrick is a pink star, an allusion to Communist imagery.

The inept and nasty Squidward represents the Capitalist idea of upward mobility; using scheming and underhand tactics to succeed. He never does.

Although Spongebob never overthrows the system, he mocks it and shows the superiority of non-bourgeois non-intellectual socialist principles embodied through his unconditional love for Patrick (and therefore of Communist principles)

Simple really.

Red Dawn was a great movie.

Well Scooby Doo is surely crypto-communist propaganda - it is always some capitalist trying to make a buck who is unmasked by the young teen collective.

24 – The corn-fed American gun-toting, flag-waving, bible-thumping conservative hunts “terrorists” (brown people) all over the world, using torture and Jesus in a chauvinist Chuck Norris-esque fashion.

Did you research this paper before you turned it in?

If you knew what you were talking about you would realise that a recurring element of the plot involves wealthy or powerful individuals manipulating the ordinary footsoldier to do their bidding, often with the soldier unaware of the motives of his superiors which may in fact be contrary to the soldier's ideology. In particular, Season 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_%28season_2%29)
Season 5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_%28season_5%29)
Season 6 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_%28season_6%29)

Despite the factual inaccuracies it is highly entertaining. Since Mary Whitehouse died there has been a lack of crazies who read too deeply into hidden meanings of television shows, with the occassional notable exception (http://users.livejournal.com/_allecto_/34718.html). So I salute you, Comrade Whitehouse, and I heartily suggest you look into the hidden capitalist meaning of pop music. You may wish to start with California Girls by the Beach Boys, a clear attempt to glorify American consumerism which drives the capitalist machine.

I am not really proposing anything in this thread, my positions are well known, this is just my reflection on the particular impact of the ruling class upon entertainment in America in particular (and Western bourgeois states in general).

oh well then, i agree with you.

except that i call it "bad values"

like "the new adventures of old christine" where our hero "christine" has moved to a rich area so that her son can go to a snooty private elementary school. there is no acknowledgement that the vacant rich snobby mothers of the children her son goes to school with are ...well.. vacant rich snobby women who are not worth the bother of trying to befriend. noooooo christine is always "less" than they are and it bothers her very much that she is.

The liberals thus argue from this obviously capitalist position, saying that art is “subjective.”

I cannot fathom how one could argue otherwise. The degree of subjectivity obviously varies among works of art, but no-one has ever devised a truly objective system of aesthetics.

As typical individualists, they see nothing in art that could possibly cause reaction and shifts in ideology, or at best they think there might be chances for such expressions to be rebutted through OTHERS exercising “free speech,” even though speech is not free and public opinion can be swayed by any Hollywood propaganda like “Red Dawn.”

Sadly, I have heard the first position argued, but you seem to be implying that it's the primary defense of free speech rather than a willfully naive cop-out, which isn't the case. The second argument -- that it is better to allow hateful ideas to be uttered so that they may be examined and rebutted rather than to repress them from being uttered in the first place -- is the far stronger one. In the absence of any truly objective criteria for judging the value (or even the content) of art, the best solution is to have ideas compete with each other. You are correct that this solution doesn't produce an even playing field or necessarily ensure that good ideas are given more hearing than bad ones, but given the impossibility of creating a perfect system, the best thing to do is to make sure that no idea is barred from expression on its face.

Entertainment in particular is vulnerable to such bourgeois programming, since the culture of any given nation is determined by its ruling class.

...

Disney in general depicts bourgeois life as the greatest. I can't remember one Disney film that didn't center around some sort of aristocracy, whether it be queens,kings, rich men/women, their children, fancy large estates, people wearing long silk dresses all day long, etc. I can't think of anything that wasn't overly materialistic or a piece of bourgeois propaganda. It's all fairy tales about bourgeois life in France or Britain. All the main characters are of the privileged class in whatever society it takes place. A few basic examples are Cinderella and Beauty and the Beast.

...

For me the most reactionary Disney film ever produced was Anastasia. It portrays the Czarists as heroes and communism as repressive.

Anastasia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastasia_(1997_film)) was neither a Disney film nor very good, but that's beside the point. I agree that almost all TV and film we see in the US has a pro-individualist slant of some sort, though to me that's sort of like complaining that the desert is hot -- given US culture, what else could one expect from US mass media? It's more interesting and perhaps more of an insight into US culture to note the differences that emerge despite the overall individualist slant. There are big gaps between, say, the fascist myth of 24 and the post-consumerist anomie of Reaper, or Chaplin's antiwar populism and Disney's prowar conservatism.

Heh a rant a day huh!

I would like to ask Andaras, how is it that he can spend so much time online here? Is he using the works PC, what does he do for work? Is he at home? How can he afford to be at home online?

I smell a rat, a capatalist rat!

He's a college student. Mommy and Daddy are rich enough he doesn't have to work, so he can post about how evil the rich people are. He just wants a hug dammit!

He's a college student. Mommy and Daddy are rich enough he doesn't have to work, so he can post about how evil the rich people are. He just wants a hug dammit!

I always did find it ironic about how most "commies" in the USA are kids who are well off.

Five bucks says that if the Revolution did come, they'd want their money and properties to be exempted from the Communist society.

He's a college student. Mommy and Daddy are rich enough he doesn't have to work, so he can post about how evil the rich people are. He just wants a hug dammit!

Awww diddums, I'll hug him, anyway I can help mate!:D

He's a college student. Mommy and Daddy are rich enough he doesn't have to work, so he can post about how evil the rich people are. He just wants a hug dammit!

sniff* I want a hug!!!! :(

Though I fail to see how Army commercials fit. Since, you know, alot of the commercials are about how people who come from poor backgrounds can leave their roots and become succesful...

For me the most reactionary Disney film ever produced was Anastasia. It portrays the Czarists as heroes and communism as repressive.
Anastasia wasn't a Disney film.

Spelling and grammar are merely tools used to protect bourgeois economic interest by making the proletariat seem foolish and unintelligent due to their lack of correct spelling and poor grammatical syntax, thus forcing them to remain labourers unable to climb up the ladder.

You win this thread.

Snip.

Where's the "I'm not a communist, but I play one on NSG" disclaimer?

The notion of free speech was born way before Capitalism and Communism just had to clash to see which system had the bigger dick, instead of trying to see how BOTH could cooperate and even unify into an amalgamated system to help the peoples of the world.

Anastasia wasn't a Disney film.
Correct. 20th Century Fox. I guess that just means that it is right-wing anti-communist propaganda.:rolleyes:

Please explain
- Finding Nemo
- Alice in Wonderland
- A Bugs Life
- Cars
- Lilo and Stitch
- Monsters Inc
- Nightmare before Christmas
- The Tigger Movie
- Toy Story
- Who framed Roger Rabbit.
in the above context.

thats 10 out of 33 movies from: http://www.google.com/Top/Arts/Movies/Studios/Walt_Disney_Pictures/Animation/Movies/

that i think it would be quite a stretch to justify that.

Pinocchio, Jungle Book, Atlantis: The Lost Empire, Treasure Island (the one in space)...

Oh, a RANT from Andaras. What an invigorating and refreshing change!

I'm not sure if you've ever heard of it, but there's a film that ran on HBO, a made-for-TV film, which they have tapes at almost every library, titled "Stalin". The director also produced "The Godfather". Anyhow, it portrays Stalin as a "murderer"

Oh NO! That director should be put up against the wall and shot, that kulak-helping, peasant-opppressing, reactionary, bourgeois puppet heathen!

It's rather disturbing how little REAL history Americans actually know.

It's rather disturbing that there are people in the world - like you - who support, condone and defend mass murderers like Hitler or Stalin. The rest of your inane rant about how vile American culture is - well.

Shit, man. You live in America, but apparently to you everyone and everything here is against you. We're all bourgeois, anti-labor, anti-revolutionaries who just don't know enough "REAL history" as you do. Why don't you get the fuck out of the country and go somewhere that would be more appealing to you? North Korea for example.

I know, I know. You're in school still. So I mean after. Why not?

Oh, a RANT from Andaras. What an invigorating and refreshing change!



Oh NO! That director should be put up against the wall and shot, that kulak-helping, peasant-opppressing, reactionary, bourgeois puppet heathen!



It's rather disturbing that there are people in the world - like you - who support, condone and defend mass murderers like Hitler or Stalin. The rest of your inane rant about how vile American culture is - well.

Shit, man. You live in America, but apparently to you everyone and everything here is against you. We're all bourgeois, anti-labor, anti-revolutionaries who just don't know enough "REAL history" as you do. Why don't you get the fuck out of the country and go somewhere that would be more appealing to you? North Korea for example.

I know, I know. You're in school still. So I mean after. Why not?

*gives slice of cheese cake*

Let's be friends.

I cannot fathom how one could argue otherwise. The degree of subjectivity obviously varies among works of art, but no-one has ever devised a truly objective system of aesthetics.

.

He's a communist. Even more, a Stalinist. To him, art is what the Ministry says it is, and the secret police will make sure no one has any contrary opinions.

Treasure Island (the one in space)...

Treasure Planet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Planet) is the one you're thinking of. All of the movies listed are pretty individualistic, so even if they're not the bowdlerized, pro-royalist versions of European fairy tales that Andaras is apparently thinking of, they still fit in with his larger point.

Oh, a RANT from Andaras. What an invigorating and refreshing change!



Oh NO! That director should be put up against the wall and shot, that kulak-helping, peasant-opppressing, reactionary, bourgeois puppet heathen!



It's rather disturbing that there are people in the world - like you - who support, condone and defend mass murderers like Hitler or Stalin. The rest of your inane rant about how vile American culture is - well.

Shit, man. You live in America, but apparently to you everyone and everything here is against you. We're all bourgeois, anti-labor, anti-revolutionaries who just don't know enough "REAL history" as you do. Why don't you get the fuck out of the country and go somewhere that would be more appealing to you? North Korea for example.

I know, I know. You're in school still. So I mean after. Why not?

He's actually Australian. He's just trying to pick up where Comrade Stalin left off.

Oh, a RANT from Andaras. What an invigorating and refreshing change!



Oh NO! That director should be put up against the wall and shot, that kulak-helping, peasant-opppressing, reactionary, bourgeois puppet heathen!



It's rather disturbing that there are people in the world - like you - who support, condone and defend mass murderers like Hitler or Stalin. The rest of your inane rant about how vile American culture is - well.

Shit, man. You live in America, but apparently to you everyone and everything here is against you. We're all bourgeois, anti-labor, anti-revolutionaries who just don't know enough "REAL history" as you do. Why don't you get the fuck out of the country and go somewhere that would be more appealing to you? North Korea for example.

I know, I know. You're in school still. So I mean after. Why not?
Actually, I think Andaras lives in Australia.

He's a communist. Even more, a Stalinist. To him, art is what the Ministry says it is, and the secret police will make sure no one has any contrary opinions.

Well, sure, but I'm saying it's silly to rail against capitalist claims that art is subjective if one's preferred political system doesn't claim to have an objective set of criteria for evaluating art. I could have just said "fail" but I think that thinking about this kind of thing is fun and I was hoping for a response.

Or are you saying that I should find a better class of Stalinist with which to argue?

He's actually Australian. He's just trying to pick up where Comrade Stalin left off.

Well, my point stands. Australia has every bit the "reactionary entertainment" that filthy, anti-revolutionary USA does. He even believes the NSG moderator team is out to oppress him and his fellow hard-working peasants. So why stay in a place where anyone and anything aggravates? Why not go to the stalinist paradise that is North Korea? He'd probably be happier.

Well, my point stands. Australia has every bit the "reactionary entertainment" that filthy, anti-revolutionary USA does. He even believes the NSG moderator team is out to oppress him and his fellow hard-working peasants. So why stay in a place where anyone and anything aggravates? Why not go to the stalinist paradise that is North Korea? He'd probably be happier.

To be fair Skippy the Kangaroo was based on Lenin.

To be fair Skippy the Kangaroo was based on Lenin.

what the hell is Skippy the Kangaroo?

This abortion of entertainment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCHY6n907OE)

Well, my point stands. Australia has every bit the "reactionary entertainment" that filthy, anti-revolutionary USA does. He even believes the NSG moderator team is out to oppress him and his fellow hard-working peasants. So why stay in a place where anyone and anything aggravates? Why not go to the stalinist paradise that is North Korea? He'd probably be happier.

True that.

what the hell is Skippy the Kangaroo?

Flipper the dolphin on land, or Lassie with a pouch.

This abortion of entertainment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCHY6n907OE)

*Screams "There is no God" and blows brain out*

All of the movies listed are pretty individualistic, so even if they're not the bowdlerized, pro-royalist versions of European fairy tales that Andaras is apparently thinking of, they still fit in with his larger point.

All good stories are individualist.

Try writing a decent novel with "The Proletariat" as the main character.

Treasure Planet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Planet) is the one you're thinking of. All of the movies listed are pretty individualistic, so even if they're not the bowdlerized, pro-royalist versions of European fairy tales that Andaras is apparently thinking of, they still fit in with his larger point.

Thanks for the correction, and as for your latter point, so what?

Actually, I think Andaras lives in Australia.

Shhh! Don't confuse Trostia with the notion that there are other countries out there besides the US.

Shhh! Don't confuse Trostia with the notion that there are other countries out there besides the US.

Oh yes, that's me. The elitist, nationalist unaware of anything outside of the US. :rolleyes:

Or, you know, I just didn't know where some random NSG poster lives. Maybe that's a bit of information I never encountered before. Or perhaps I did and didn't think it was particularly relevant. (Which, in fact, it isn't.)

Nahh, it must be that I'm a provincial with no clue.

Thanks for the correction, and as for your latter point, so what?



Shhh! Don't confuse Trostia with the notion that there are other countries out there besides the US.

The state is a lie created by the anti-revolutionary forces to oppress and exploit the workers.

Andaras, I'm curious...have you ever read any Orwell?

You know...1984, Animal Farm. Stuff like that.

It's just that reading your shock at Stalin being depicted as a murderer, all I could think of were the sheep...

He's a communist.

No, he's not, but he plays one on NSG.

Even more, a Stalinist.

Which is, in and of itself, a state of mind achieved by reading history books and going "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" when they narrate the atrocities and very un-communistic things Stalin did, rather than an ideology remotely connected to communism.

Andaras, I'm curious...have you ever read any Orwell?

You know...1984, Animal Farm. Stuff like that.

It's just that reading your shock at Stalin being depicted as a murderer, all I could think of were the sheep...

To be sure, 1984 depicted a state with the worst characteristics of both socialism AND capitalism, not a socialist state

Y'know, like Stalin's Russia.

Oh yes, that's me. The elitist, nationalist unaware of anything outside of the US. :rolleyes:

Or, you know, I just didn't know where some random NSG poster lives. Maybe that's a bit of information I never encountered before. Or perhaps I did and didn't think it was particularly relevant. (Which, in fact, it isn't.)

Nahh, it must be that I'm a provincial with no clue.

You said it.

Son, you know that NS is a UK-based forum, and that its creator is himself Australian. You chose to assume that Andaras lives in the US. How is pointing out that your assumption says more about you than anyone else in any way wrong?

To be sure, 1984 depicted a state with the worst characteristics of both socialism AND capitalism, not a socialist state

Y'know, like Stalin's Russia.

Uncle Joseph is watching. ;)

All good stories are individualist.

Try writing a decent novel with "The Proletariat" as the main character.

Charlie and the chocolate factory workers

All good stories are individualist.

Try writing a decent novel with "The Proletariat" as the main character.

...and Maoist & Stalinist authors didn't write novels starring abstract concepts as their protagonists. (If they had, they probably would have been persecuted for making non-representational bourgeois art.) At a very simple level, there's a difference between stories that primarily focus on the struggle of the protagonist to reach their goal by drawing on some quality intrinsic to themselves as an individual, and stories that primarily focus on the relationship of the protagonist(s) to others and to society, and how that helps or hinders their struggle.

Put another way, Rand =/= Alger =/= Dickens =/= Gogol and so on.

Charlie and the chocolate factory workers

Ah, the plight of the Oompa-Loompas re-cast as classic capitalist exploitation of the working class dwarf with orange skin and green hair.

Uncle Joseph is watching. ;)

I hope he feels inferior when he sees me naked. *nod*

Uncle Joseph is watching. ;)

Well, he can watch all he wants, I'll keep mast...

er...

masticating. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Well, he can watch all he want, I'll keep mast...

er...

masticating. Yeah, that's the ticket.

"Chew, chew chew, good food is good for yooou..."

[points for the reference]

"Chew, chew chew, good food is good for yooou..."

[points for the reference]

Brazilian here, you're asking too much of me.

Thanks for the correction, and as for your latter point, so what?

You're welcome, and I'm not making any big point. As I look back at the post I was really responding to Armacor's question, not yours. The hardcore animation geek in me thinks it's really interesting to look at how Walt Disney's personal right-wing politics show up (or not) in his movies, and how the Disney company has or hasn't carried on that tradition.

what the hell is Skippy the Kangaroo?
If you have to ask, you're too young.

Brazilian here, you're asking too much of me.

Apologies. It's from the film The Road to Wellville, a farcical dramatization of the beginnings of the health-conscious era in turn-of-the-20th-century Battle Creek, Michigan and the empire founded by Dr. John Harvey Kellogg.

You're welcome, and I'm not making any big point. As I look back at the post I was really responding to Armacor's question, not yours. The hardcore animation geek in me thinks it's really interesting to look at how Walt Disney's personal right-wing politics show up (or not) in his movies, and how the Disney company has or hasn't carried on that tradition.

Mostly has, with the exception perhaps of a bit of green-sympathy.

If you have to ask, you're too young.

Or not Australian enough. The resemblance to Lassie borders on infringement.

I hope he feels inferior when he sees me naked. *nod*

Maybe he killed all those people because he was constantly compensating for his small member.

Well, he can watch all he wants, I'll keep mast...

er...

masticating. Yeah, that's the ticket.

A good thing, too. All sperm must be saved to produce more proletarian babies to overthrow capitalist exploitation.

Maybe he killed all those people because he was constantly compensating for his small member.



A good thing, too. All sperm must be saved to produce more proletarian babies to overthrow capitalist exploitation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DkqU-uWojc

Mostly has, with the exception perhaps of a bit of green-sympathy.

Um, only a bit?

Have you ever seen bambi?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DkqU-uWojc

Hahaha...not gonna lie, that's where I got the idea from. I love monty python.

Um, only a bit?

Have you ever seen bambi?

Okay, that's one movie out of well over 40. So yeah, comparatively, to Disney's other leanings, a bit.

Okay, that's one movie out of well over 40. So yeah, comparatively, to Disney's other leanings, a bit.

That one movie caused a 30 year reduction in hunting. One moviemade more of a difference than the others.

So when are the forces of parroted rhetoric going to rise up and overthrow the empirically backed establishment?

what the hell is Skippy the Kangaroo?

The big, floppy-eared kangaroo that kept beating the shit out of Sylvester?

Or not Australian enough. The resemblance to Lassie borders on infringement.

That capitist running dog...

I one time attended a college seminar that was about feminist symbolism and critique of movies.

They were digging in all sorts of feminist analogies out of a B-movie flick out of all things. A B-movie. Not an acclaimed national or international award-winning cinema masterpiece. A B-movie. One that was basically a cheap Jurassic Park ripoff/cash-in.

Sometimes people dig too deep for symbolisms and hidden meanings in films. It's like taking a shot of LSD with marijuana chaser. You'd have to be pretty lifeless to not see what you want to see out of that.

And on an unrelated note, this is what the typical Internet Angry Marxist looks like:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3263/2532425526_f6972e3a89.jpg?v=0

That one movie caused a 30 year reduction in hunting. One moviemade more of a difference than the others.

That's only tangentially relevant, giving that we're talking environmentalism and not animal rights. Also, source?

I one time attended a college seminar that was about feminist symbolism and critique of movies.

They were digging in all sorts of feminist analogies out of a B-movie flick out of all things. A B-movie. Not an acclaimed national or international award-winning cinema masterpiece. A B-movie. One that was basically a cheap Jurassic Park ripoff/cash-in.

Sometimes people dig too deep for symbolisms and hidden meanings in films. It's like taking a shot of LSD with marijuana chaser. You'd have to be pretty lifeless to not see what you want to see out of that.

I know the feminists of which you speak. Card-carrying members of the pseudo-intellectual terrorist group known as Lezbollah. Hell, I had one of their ilk as a teacher in college who tried to implicate Shakespeare as a feminist. *facepalm*

And on an unrelated note, this is what the typical Internet Angry Marxist looks like:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3263/2532425526_f6972e3a89.jpg?v=0

It's Ric from The Young Ones!

I like how you utilized your "right to free speech," which you seem not to particularly care for, to let us know how you feel

I like how you utilized your "right to free speech," which you seem not to particularly care for, to let us know how you feel

This was in reference to...whom? (The quote button is your friend.)

This was in reference to...whom? (The quote button is your friend.)

I think he meant Andaras.

I can't find the source yet, but i'll keep looking.

The big, floppy-eared kangaroo that kept beating the shit out of Sylvester?

But thhhon, you don't understhhhand!!! Thathh's the biggesthhh mouthhe I've ever sthhhen!!!

There are some things that I have noticed in my almost half century of hanging around. Most of the presons that are so staunchly marxist are the children of the rich. Maybe they have some guilt about having so much material goods that was earned by their parents.

If you look back at the marxist terrorist groups of the 70's in Europe, they were the kids of the rich. The Baader-Meinhof gang, Red Brigade and others. Of course, there are a lot of university students that are falling for the same line of thought, until they graduate and face the cold reality of life.

As for me, I am not rich, but I own my house, have a job I enjoy with a very good wage that allows me to take care of my wife and kids without her having to get a job. I busted my ass for what I have, and it had nothing to do with the borgoise? capitalist. It had to do with how hard I wanted what I have.

There are some things that I have noticed in my almost half century of hanging around. Most of the presons that are so staunchly marxist are the children of the rich. Maybe they have some guilt about having so much material goods that was earned by their parents.

If you look back at the marxist terrorist groups of the 70's in Europe, they were the kids of the rich. The Baader-Meinhof gang, Red Brigade and others. Of course, there are a lot of university students that are falling for the same line of thought, until they graduate and face the cold reality of life.

As for me, I am not rich, but I own my house, have a job I enjoy with a very good wage that allows me to take care of my wife and kids without her having to get a job. I busted my ass for what I have, and it had nothing to do with the borgoise? capitalist. It had to do with how hard I wanted what I have.

In the first world this is an observation that I, with my almost half century as well, agree with wholeheartedly.

However I moved to the third world, and here there is a completely different group of staunch Marxists. These are the children of the very poor who have managed, through sheer determination, hard work or at times good fortune, to obtain some education. Whilst is disagree fundamentally with left wing (from soft socialism through to full blown Communism) positions, at least I can respect the coherence of the position of this group.

The first world rich kid Marxists I just find pathetic.

This abortion of entertainment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCHY6n907OE)

cool, the Australian version of Flipper or Gentle Ben.

so is andaras going to come back to discuss this?
Or is it just left for everyone else to look at...

If you have to ask, you're too young.

i live in Finland!they didn't show it here!

so is andaras going to come back to discuss this?
Or is it just left for everyone else to look at...

im thinking that he must be "on vacation" for a few days.

How much effort does it take to maintain this caricature-like facade of anti-capitalism? I mean, if Saturday Night Live set out to parody Karl Marx, I don't think they could do a better job.

To be fair, he does half a point in regards to the Tsarists being treated as some sort of saviors. And the treatment of Communism does go a bit overboard...I really don't think even Stalin forced entire cities to dance and sing in the street about how great communism was ;)

I really don't think even Stalin forced entire cities to dance and sing in the street about how great communism was ;)

Orly? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WpYWpN0VXU) You may be surprised!

Orly? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WpYWpN0VXU) You may be surprised!

I do beleive you've discovered the origin of breakdance ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoQb8vb4blA

<snip> All American TV is individualistic and all TV shows show middle class people

Well, it would, that's what the national culture is all about. US culture is highly individualistic and emphasises the "American Dream" of social mobility. I don't like it either, but it's a part of their culture, and that's the way it is.


Even if it doesn't focus on material things, then it focuses on historical events and is often directed against the USSR. The worst thing is that children are taught in elementary school that the USSR was more repressive than Nazi Germany. It's that kind of BS that has recreated the red scare over and over again.

I don't think that's true. The US is always happy to recount the holocaust in gory, vomit inducing black and white.


I'm not sure if you've ever heard of it, but there's a film that ran on HBO, a made-for-TV film, which they have tapes at almost every library, titled "Stalin". The director also produced "The Godfather". Anyhow, it portrays Stalin as a "murderer"

Stalin as a murder? Oh noes... That's just, like... totally... uh, true?

and the entire film centers around anti-Stalinist propaganda from the Brezhnev-era, not to mention crap about how "Stalin was a bad father" and the usual bourgeois propaganda regarding the USSR. It's rather disturbing how little REAL history Americans actually know.

Or indeed you. Stalin was a murder. He was responsible for the deaths of millions of his own people, most of whom weren't even in revolt.

For me the most reactionary Disney film ever produced was Anastasia. It portrays the Czarists as heroes and communism as repressive.

It was made by 20th Century Fox. I don't think it portrayed the Czarists as heroes per se, rather as people being attacked, which was true. I thought the film was crap for other reasons though.

Well, it would, that's what the national culture is all about. US culture is highly individualistic and emphasises the "American Dream" of social mobility. I don't like it either, but it's a part of their culture, and that's the way it is.


There's the question of cause/effect though.

Red Dawn is a good movie. It's not quite Fistful of Dollars or True Grit but it's definitely been worth the eight bucks I paid for the DVD five years ago. And 24 is one of the very few things worth watching on television these days.

Well, it would, that's what the national culture is all about. US culture is highly individualistic and emphasises the "American Dream" of social mobility. I don't like it either, but it's a part of their culture, and that's the way it is.

Yeah, there's nothing worse than a bunch of people working on their own to improve themelves. They might get the notion that they don't need the government to do everything for them.

*Boring, overlong OP*
Uhu. Explain to me how the culture of the USSR was better? The only capable film directors, such as Eisenstein, were banned from working for being 'fellow-travellors' rather than propagandists by Stalin. Nice one.

Proletkult was a joke, and state-sponsored art was, and is, almost always utter shite.

I always did find it ironic about how most "commies" in the USA are kids who are well off.

Five bucks says that if the Revolution did come, they'd want their money and properties to be exempted from the Communist society.

He's not a US American, he's Australian. Don't try to blame us!

http://www.indymedia.ie/attachments/may2006/v_for_vendetta_02_page_07.jpg

This is the closest thing that exists to a clearly pro-capitalist movie, although that is not the reason I never watched it. The reason is that its theme is the Triumph of the Will. :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pursuit_of_Happyness

"Work hard, don't listen to commies or strikes and you'll be successful and rich"

Although even more laughable is the:

"If you are completely honest to everyone instead of an yesman, you'll get the best jobs"

Of course, Stalinist propaganda always beats anything regarding ridiculousness.

Andaras is correct that the Western mass media is full of shit because it involves money, and nobody will broadcast things that harm their shareholders and sponsors. Only thing he forgets is that we have free Internet to counter it, where Soviet Union would never have such excellent source of... everything where opinions are not censored by financial interests or totalitarian governments.

Ah well. Neocons complained that V for Vendetta portrayed insane fundamentalist Christianity in a bad light, Andaras complains that certain movies portray capitalism in a good one, and, you know what? I gotta complain too.

I have no job, I'm a 27-year old virgin that's spending his Saturday afternoon in an internet forum, I live in my mother's house, in a world full of existential doubt (as we all do), and I don't have the will to make a blog about it all.

So go ahead, Andaras, and tell me all about your oh-so-important complaints about movie interpretations YOU decided to make in YOUR way.

Bambi is not about the struggle of the proletariat. It's about a friggin' DEER.
Toy Story is not about the situation of capitalism in the West. It's about, guess what, TOYS.
V for Vendetta is not about the evils of Christianity. It's about a dystopian future caused by lack of separation between Church and State, as would inevitably happen without it.

Of course movies offer more to read on them than their base plots, but by wanting to read something that's just not there in order to advance a previously held point of view you're just making a shoddy scene.

By the way, I came to a conclusion, after interpreting a research on Stalin, that he came to power in Russia only to compensate for his tiny genital size. That's right, Stalin wasn't much of a man. But that's okay, because the same applies to McCarthy and Richard Nixon. They all had small penises.

See? Anyone can read anything into stuff. QED.

Oh, a RANT from Andaras.

Aye the ultimate paste, post and run debater

I wonder if he's ever considered exactly why communism never works in reality...or even if he's visited reality

El-Presidenti Boris

<<off to muder a few more bambis...mmm dinner:eek:

The most - reactionary - Capitalism LOL of all entertainments*:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew9YQVRSlHE

Gorbachev killing Stalin Zombies to "liberate" hot jeans-loving Russian chicks with LULZ.

It was supposed to be an homage but it seems more like a joke over capitalism and "westernization"

How much effort does it take to maintain this caricature-like facade of anti-capitalism? I mean, if Saturday Night Live set out to parody Karl Marx, I don't think they could do a better job.This is definitely one of his/her better efforts. :)

Hollywood propaganda like “Red Dawn.”You mean prophetic documentary?

24 – The corn-fed American gun-toting, flag-waving, bible-thumping conservative hunts “terrorists” (brown people) all over the world, using torture and Jesus in a chauvinist Chuck Norris-esque fashion.I only watch it for the great interviews with Kiefer.

South Park – Constantly promotes the most libertarian position possible, pro-imperialist and promotes hate speech and discrimination.I don't really have a good reason to watch that show, honestly. Doesn't mean i don't watch it. Every now and again something funny - usually involving Randy. Hot!Hot!Hot! + yogurt flinging

Veggietales – Whip this out at an atheist liberal and see what he thinks of his “freedom of speech!”I have a shirt with the cucumber on it, and i wear it proudly. Not so much in respect to the show, as much as to "Drawn Together" (thanks Verdigroth)

Bones – There was once an episode where a “rehabilitated” soccer mom, who was a former revolutionary from the 70s was going to TURN HERSELF IN for…wait for it… KILLING A COP BACK IN THE 70s (omfg you guyz, revolution sux, it kills people who kill people). In the end it turns out she was murdered by another former revolutionary from her own gang. Wow, those godless hippies.
Yes, it seems that the guy who killed her is actually the one who killed the cop and that the soccer mom tried to get in the way to protect the cop. Don’t ask.I'm asking. Never watched a full show. Hard to watch, given that she isn't her sister, and the dude in the show hooked up with Allyson Hannigan. *grrrr*

NCIS – During every episode having to do with the war they refer to Iraq being “liberated.” There is also constant pro-Zionist stuff because of having an Israeli character on there. YES, one of the “good guys” is a goddamn Mossad agent!Never watched it. I don't like shows based on acronyms. That's what kept me out of the military, was the concept of memorizing so many relatively unimportant ones.

Carlos Mencia – Racist and then some. Also, not funny, which is more of a trespass for comedy in itself than casual racism.I disagree. His high point was Butt Pirates of the Caribbean. See it.

Even though this isn't technically a TV show, the commercials recruiting for U.S. Army.Actually, that's helping my community out, what with hiring all the felons and miscreants. Makes the streets safer.

Superman - It's always Superman protecting private property (the giant riches in banks or vaults from robbers and other villains), furthermore it gives off the idea that the defense of private property is the same as the defense of the fatherland (decidedly fascist I think).Hey, any movie that has Richard Pryor in it can't be that bad.

"Gangsta" rap Black culture -glorified lumpenproletarial social scum, crime and 'informal' capitalist exploitation, ie pimping, drug dealing, racketeering, murder etc.That was garbage all along. Can't disagree with you here. Odd you have such a serious post in this run.

Aladdin is great; Disney's take on Arab culture.You know what else was great in that flick? The murmur you hear in that scene on the balcony.
Plus, there's some really good Disney movie covers.

I don't know if you guys remember the "duck tales" series from TV, but that was also great ,where most of the episodes involve billionaire uncle scrooge "finding" treasure, and trying to protect his riches from Lumpens who want to rob him.Never into it. Extension of CTOAN's assertion that geese are jerks. Daffy was cool though.

Uhu. Explain to me how the culture of the USSR was better? The only capable film directors, such as Eisenstein, were banned from working for being 'fellow-travellors' rather than propagandists by Stalin. Nice one.

Proletkult was a joke, and state-sponsored art was, and is, almost always utter shite.
Socialist Realism is the best art form around, it portrays real conditions as opposed to the ludicrous abstract 'nothingness' of liberal art, which in turn reflects the nothingness of bourgeois culture.

great - you are back.
Care to respond to any of the other points made?

Socialist Realism is the best art form around, it portrays real conditions as opposed to the ludicrous abstract 'nothingness' of liberal art, which in turn reflects the nothingness of bourgeois culture.

And Marxist socialism is the best socialism form around, it portrays real socialism as opposed to the ludicrous abstract "socialism" of internet wannabes.

What does "burgeois" mean, Andaras? If you want to discuss socialism as a philosophy, as a political current, heck, as anything, let's. Because here I am, someone that KNOWS what he's talking about, offering my services to someone that uses as a cudgel a word he has yet to prove he knows the MEANING of.

I'm just that nice.

Go ahead. What philosophers do you wanna discuss? Marx? Bakunin? Bakhtin? What actual, relevant information on socialism, its roots, its actual system, as opposed to Stalin's little dystopia he built up against, for instance, Trotsky's wishes, do you wanna talk about? Do you KNOW how socialism works? Do you KNOW what "burgeois" means? Do you KNOW what Marx, Bakunin and Bakhtin, to name a few, wrote? Do you know ANYTHING about Socialism and Communism, anything at all beyond a few soundbites a la "worker's plight", "burgeois", and so on? If so, why don't you go right ahead and tell me? It sure would be nice to have a meaningful discussion with you about Socialism and Communism, Andaras, and I'm presenting you with the opportunity here because I'm just. that. NICE.

So, which will it be? Will you hurl "burgeois" at me like a cudgel or will you ACTUALLY HAVE A FRIGGIN' DISCUSSION ON THE ISSUE YOU CLAIM TO DOMINATE?

bourgeois nonsense

You sound like a rambling fool and a bourgeois pawn, so get lost. I have nothing to say to you fool.

Trotsky was a traitor and a class enemy who when the whole USSR realized he was a fraud got all butthurt and fled to his bourgeois friends in America, which says alot. That says more about his loyalties.

Bakunin was also just another petite-bourgeois Utopian.

You sound like a rambling fool and a bourgeois pawn, so get lost. I have nothing to say to you fool.

Trotsky was a traitor and a class enemy who when the whole USSR realized he was a fraud got all butthurt and fled to his bourgeois friends in America, which says alot. That says more about his loyalties.

Bakunin was also just another petite-bourgeois Utopian.

So you're chickening out? Christ, Nicholai Volkoff is more communist than you.

And winner by forfeit, Heikoku.

You sound like a rambling fool and a bourgeois pawn, so get lost. I have nothing to say to you fool.

Trotsky was a traitor and a class enemy who when the whole USSR realized he was a fraud got all butthurt and fled to his bourgeois friends in America, which says alot. That says more about his loyalties.

Bakunin was also just another petite-bourgeois Utopian.


Clarification - do you mean the USA or the continent?
Cause im pretty sure he was pithed in Mexico

And Mexico is slightly different to the USA

You sound like a rambling fool and a bourgeois pawn, so get lost. I have nothing to say to you fool.

Trotsky was a traitor and a class enemy who when the whole USSR realized he was a fraud got all butthurt and fled to his bourgeois friends in America, which says alot. That says more about his loyalties.

Bakunin was also just another petite-bourgeois Utopian.
You know I think you just proved Heikoku's point. I've seen a lot of your posts and it seems all you do is quote Stalin and dismiss those who aren't like him as "bourgeois" and thus not worth considering. Part of debate is considering your opponent's point and crafting a logical rebuttal to it. You should consider doing that more often instead of just throwing around the word "bourgeois" constantly.

You sound like a rambling fool and a bourgeois pawn, so get lost. I have nothing to say to you fool.

Speak for yourself.

Trotsky was a traitor and a class enemy who when the whole USSR realized he was a fraud got all butthurt and fled to his bourgeois friends in America, which says alot. That says more about his loyalties.

I hope you're referring to North America, considering he fled to Mexico.

Bakunin was also just another petite-bourgeois Utopian.

Because utopia would be a bad thing.

You sound like a rambling fool and a bourgeois pawn, so get lost. I have nothing to say to you fool.

You see, Andaras, here you are, blustering this kind of tripe at me, the Ace of Spades of this forum. Yet you never, EVER dare to make an actual move against me. An ACTUAL move, that doesn't involve tossing at me a word that has a meaning you don't even seem to know. Because you KNOW you wouldn't win an argument against me.

I am, after all, the Ace of Spades...

(Ideas for style here are welcomed, folks. When I'm talking to people like him, I might as well use the time to make a few anime-style arguing moves and "poses", so to speak, because it's such a waste of time. Think "Ace of Spades" will stick?)

As for "getting lost": Make. Me.

And winner by forfeit, Heikoku.

Y'know, I was really hoping I was wrong about him. But, then, the Ace of Spades is never wrong... ;)

(So, what do you think? Catchy?)

You know I think you just proved Heikoku's point. I've seen a lot of your posts and it seems all you do is quote Stalin and dismiss those who aren't like him as "bourgeois" and thus not worth considering. Part of debate is considering your opponent's point and crafting a logical rebuttal to it. You should consider doing that more often instead of just throwing around the word "bourgeois" constantly.

Debating is for the burgeois! Now, I don't know what this means, but debating is for them!

You know I think you just proved Heikoku's point. I've seen a lot of your posts and it seems all you do is quote Stalin and dismiss those who aren't like him as "bourgeois" and thus not worth considering. Part of debate is considering your opponent's point and crafting a logical rebuttal to it. You should consider doing that more often instead of just throwing around the word "bourgeois" constantly.

He keeps screaming "bourgeois" almost as much as TAI screams "Leftist" at people who don't agree with him 100%.

I say we need to throw those two into Thunderdome. Either we'll have the most spectucular sporting event of the century...

... or the most nausea-inducing case of forbidden love since man met livestock.

*sigh* Heikoku, Andaras, Gauthier, if I wanted to watch World Wrestling Entertainment bouts, I would. This is NS. We're innalekshuls. So quit chucking chairs around and get back to the main event.

*sigh* Heikoku, Andaras, Gauthier, if I wanted to watch World Wrestling Entertainment bouts, I would. This is NS. We're innalekshuls. So quit chucking chairs around and get back to the main event.

*hides baseball bat*

Awww, am I too late?

OK, I just bought a copy of Capital by Karl Marx. Shall we start a Literary Society book club? I'll go through Capital with Andaras and whoever else wants to join on a chapter-by-chaprter basis as long as all parties agree to follow up by reading Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations so we can have a compare-and-contrast debate in a reasoned manner.

Never mind, I forgot that this was NSG. Reason has had its IP banned.

*hides baseball bat*

Awww, am I too late?

OK, I just bought a copy of Capital by Karl Marx. Shall we start a Literary Society book club? I'll go through Capital with Andaras and whoever else wants to join on a chapter-by-chaprter basis as long as all parties agree to follow up by reading Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations so we can have a compare-and-contrast debate in a reasoned manner.

Never mind, I forgot that this was NSG. Reason has had its IP banned.

Well, considering Stalinism isn't Marxism (or even Socialism or Communism), you'd have to check with Andaras to see if he'd be interested.

I, the Ace of Spades, would.

(So, is it working for me to get a moniker as "The Ace of Spades"? Or at least "The Nutjob Who Calls Himself Ace Of Spades And Hopes It Sticks"?)

Well, considering Stalinism isn't Marxism (or even Socialism or Communism), you'd have to check with Andaras to see if he'd be interested.

I, the Ace of Spades, would.

(So, is it working for me to get a moniker as "The Ace of Spades"? Or at least "The Nutjob Who Calls Himself Ace Of Spades And Hopes It Sticks"?)

Hey, I'll call ya "Ace of Spades" as long as you help me spread the word that Chuck Norris fans copied the 'Lord Tothe facts' and tried to pass them off as facts about their favorite 'actor'.

Come to think of it, I wonder what Andaras thinks of Mr. Total Gym? He's clearly an evil propagandist for the evil fascist socio-political system as well as a terrible actor.

Hey, I'll call ya "Ace of Spades" as long as you help me spread the word that Chuck Norris fans copied the 'Lord Tothe facts' and tried to pass them off as facts about their favorite 'actor'.

Come to think of it, I wonder what Andaras thinks of Mr. Total Gym? He's clearly an evil propagandist for the evil fascist socio-political system as well as a terrible actor.

Deal.

And I wonder if Norris would roundhouse-kick Stalin... :D

Also, forgot to mention:

'Gilmore Girls' is a individualist-drama about a family of latte fast-talking liberals, and which constantly glorifies petite-bourgeois 'sophisticated' lifestyle, which the 'lowest' character being a small shop-owner, the grandparents being 'aristocratically'-styled bourgeois proper, the parents petite-bourgeois and the children selfish Harvard-grad relationship-obsessed pampered snobs.

In one episode Rory(sp) gives her grandfather a book by Milton Friedman, and talk about the 'stupidity of intervention in the market place', and in general the show glorifies bourgeois 'freedom' of the pampered middle-men and the shows' class basis is upon them.

Also, forgot to mention:

Also, don't forget 'Gilmore Girls', which is a individualist-drama about a family of latte fast-talking liberals, and which constantly glorifies petite-bourgeois 'sophisticated' lifestyle, which the 'lowest' character being a small shop-owner, the grandparents being bourgeios proper, the parents petite-bourgeois and the children selfish Harvard-grad relationship-obsessed pampered snobs.

In one episode Rory(sp) gives her grandfather a book by Milton Friedman, and talk about the 'stupidity of intervention in the market place', and in general the show glorifies bourgeois 'freedom' of the pampered middle-men the shows class basis is upon.

Wow. You sure know a lot about capitalist propoganda. I bet you write it your self.

Wow. You sure know a lot about capitalist propoganda. I bet you write it your self.

No, I just see all entertainment in society through a class context, while people like you fail to use class context so you willfully let the bourgeois culture subtly influence you and entrench itself in your thinking.

people like you fail to use class context so you willfully let the bourgeois culture subtly influence you and entrench itself in your thinking.Meh, we gots a few minutes. You know this forum will change the world and all. Well, 'cept for Dubsy's thread, of course.

No, I just see all entertainment in society through a class context, while people like you fail to use class context so you willfully let the bourgeois culture subtly influence you and entrench itself in your thinking.

I understand.

You lack an "off" switch. You are the kind of person that sits down to watch a movie, then takes some completely irrelevant message from it. Like taking a porno and trying to get a message out of it. Other than holy shit look at her tits.

I understand.

You lack an "off" switch. You are the kind of person that sits down to watch a movie, then takes some completely irrelevant message from it. Like taking a porno and trying to get a message out of it. Other than holy shit look at her tits.
Given that the pornography industry is rife with exploitation, crime, drugs and general social scum ruining the lives of women, I think it is relevant. No doubt however you will laugh this off with your 'lol tits' social chauvinism.

Given that the pornography industry is rife with exploitation, crime, drugs and general social scum ruining the lives of women, I think it is relevant. No doubt however you will laugh this off with your 'lol tits' social chauvinism.

loltits.

There you happy?

My first comment still has a point though, about you not having an off switch.

Tell me Andaras, what do you do in your off time, what do you do to relax?

Tell me Andaras, what do you do in your off time, what do you do to relax?Special K?

Special K?

Nice.

I would not be surprised if he said something like "Socialists have no down time"

Tell me Andaras, what do you do in your off time, what do you do to relax?
I read the Collected Works of Vladimir Lenin.

I read the Collected Works of Vladimir Lenin.

Wow. Even I couldn't of though up something that perfect. I am honestly loling right now.

Yeah, there's nothing worse than a bunch of people working on their own to improve themelves. They might get the notion that they don't need the government to do everything for them.

I'm not going to threadjack, but I never passed judgement on your ideals, I merely said I personally don't like them.

Also, forgot to mention:

'Gilmore Girls' is a individualist-drama about a family of latte fast-talking liberals, and which constantly glorifies petite-bourgeois 'sophisticated' lifestyle, which the 'lowest' character being a small shop-owner, the grandparents being 'aristocratically'-styled bourgeois proper, the parents petite-bourgeois and the children selfish Harvard-grad relationship-obsessed pampered snobs.

In one episode Rory(sp) gives her grandfather a book by Milton Friedman, and talk about the 'stupidity of intervention in the market place', and in general the show glorifies bourgeois 'freedom' of the pampered middle-men and the shows' class basis is upon them.

Oh what? Though I hate to admit to watching any crappy US TV series, I actually kinda like the Gilmore Girls. I blame my partner who made me watch one. I said it was better than I thought, and the whole thing went downhill from there.... I kow-tow before Comrade Stalin and ask forgiveness for allowing my mind to be filled with bourgeois-capitalist-neo-imperialist-anti-class propaganda.

No, I just see all entertainment in society through a class context, while people like you fail to use class context so you willfully let the bourgeois culture subtly influence you and entrench itself in your thinking.

Can't speak for others, but I use class context a lot. You see, Chavs are evil... must indoctrinate them to suppress their so-called culture and impose a better one upon them and make them serve the ends of better people :)

I read the Collected Works of Vladimir Lenin.

And watch TV, don't forget. You know more programmes than I do ;)

Wow. Even I couldn't of though up something that perfect. I am honestly loling right now.

It was pretty good, I agree.

I read the Collected Works of Vladimir Lenin.

Honestly...this comment must clearly paint you as the Stalinist equivalent of Jesussaves.

Who are you, really?

Socialist Realism is the best art form around, it portrays real conditions
No, it doesn't, it portrays idyllic versions of 'real conditions'.
as opposed to the ludicrous abstract 'nothingness' of liberal art, which in turn reflects the nothingness of bourgeois culture.
No, it doesn't, if reflects the pretentiousness of bourgeois culture.

No, it doesn't, it portrays idyllic versions of 'real conditions'.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c6/Roses_for_Stalin_by_Vladimirskij.jpg

How dare you insult uncle Joe like that!

Also, forgot to mention:

'Gilmore Girls' is a individualist-drama about a family of latte fast-talking liberals, and which constantly glorifies petite-bourgeois 'sophisticated' lifestyle, which the 'lowest' character being a small shop-owner, the grandparents being 'aristocratically'-styled bourgeois proper, the parents petite-bourgeois and the children selfish Harvard-grad relationship-obsessed pampered snobs.

In one episode Rory(sp) gives her grandfather a book by Milton Friedman, and talk about the 'stupidity of intervention in the market place', and in general the show glorifies bourgeois 'freedom' of the pampered middle-men and the shows' class basis is upon them.

Your interpretation is incorrect, has no basis in reality and means nothing. It's flawed, it's wrong and it's illogical.

Also, Stalin was a moron that did mass-murder to compensate for his sexual shortcomings. He wasn't a communist, he wasn't a socialist, and the most recent example of socialist was Trotsky, who, incidentally, actually knew what communism and socialism mean, as opposed to that utter moron by the name of Stalin.

So there.

Because, if you can't bring yourself to argue against me, I won't go through the trouble of arguing with you, either. Only, MY views are correct and yours aren't.

I read the Collected Works of Vladimir Lenin.

I don't think you do. If you did, you'd realize how much of an idiotic, bourgeois moron Stalin was. I mean, he didn't even get Russia to get NEAR a communist state. Indeed, he didn't even use the resources of the biggest country in the world to feed its comparatively smaller population. The fall of Communism and Socialism is Stalin's fault. If it weren't for him, Communism might be seen as a workable system, or at least a workable compromise between Communism and Capitalism, one that would serve the people, would be seen as such. Stalin was the worst enemy Communism and Socialism ever had. And here you are, claiming you read Lenin's works and claiming they are representative of what Marxism, Socialism and Communism actually MEAN.

Andaras... what do you expect to accomplish by whining on NSG? Do you think anyone here regards you as anything other than a joke? Assuming you aren't an intentional parody, of course, which is highly likely, given that I know of no better parody of communism (not that you're actually a communist, since you love to figuratively perform fellatio on Stalin daily) than your posting history. If you are serious, you can't possibly be too stupid to realize that your drivel is wasted here and just provides entertainment for the rest of us.

So why don't you quit bitching on this stupid forum, get the fuck off the internet and go start a revolution, comrade?

So why don't you quit bitching on this stupid forum, get the fuck off the internet and go start a revolution, comrade?

Because Stalin never started, nor did he, in any way, support, one. Stalin was a pampered boy that thought mass murder was a means of political action and used it to make up for his lack of success in getting a woman. In short, Stalin asn't a socialist, but he played one in Moscow.

Because Stalin never started, nor did he, in any way, support, one. Stalin was a pampered boy that thought mass murder was a means of political action and used it to make up for his lack of success in getting a woman. In short, Stalin asn't a socialist, but he played one in Moscow.

Shhhh.... I'm trying to mock him...

Shhhh.... I'm trying to mock him...

I'm mocking Stalin.

Which is more than he let people do back when he thought he mattered.

[url=http://users.livejournal.com/_allecto_/34718.html]

Since I first read that article, I've kept an eye on her blog, and that chick is insane.

So, Andreas, you like bashing racism and uplifting Stalin, huh? Well, I've got news for you.... Stalin hated Jews. After World War II he tried to pick up where Hitler left off and start killing the Jews in Soviet occupied territory... He accused a group of Jews of trying to overthrow him and used it as an excuse to start killing the Jewish race off. The only reason why it's not well known is because he died shortly after this began. As a Russian Jew by decent (my great grandparents fled to America during World War I), I find your defense of Stalin and your condemnation of the "racist" American culture to a tiny bit hypocritical.

The only way you can "prove me wrong" is through socialist propoganda rather than real history. Tread lightly, son, cause you're playing ball with a history grad student... That means I have laser eyes.

So, Andreas, you like bashing racism and uplifting Stalin, huh? Well, I've got news for you.... Stalin hated Jews. After World War II he tried to pick up where Hitler left off and start killing the Jews in Soviet occupied territory... He accused a group of Jews of trying to overthrow him and used it as an excuse to start killing the Jewish race off. The only reason why it's not well known is because he died shortly after this began. As a Russian Jew by decent (my great grandparents fled to America during World War I), I find your defense of Stalin and your condemnation of the "racist" American culture to a tiny bit hypocritical.

The only way you can "prove me wrong" is through socialist propoganda rather than real history. Tread lightly, son, cause you're playing ball with a history grad student... That means I have laser eyes.

Hmm, I will have to ask my friend about this. Her father is half Russian Jewish, and a politics grad... he works for the U.S. government in some capacity about which details are necessarily vague. I imagine he or my friend would know a lot about this. *curious*

Stalin wanted to reaffirm fear in Soviet society after World War II because people had the false hope that he was going to ease up... He did some more purging and starting killing the Jews off after he, like I said, accused a group of Jews of trying to kill him. Also, Jewish stereotypes (which place them as everything Marx was against), make them an easy target for a communist tyrant to kill off.

So, Andreas, you like bashing racism and uplifting Stalin, huh? Well, I've got news for you.... Stalin hated Jews. After World War II he tried to pick up where Hitler left off and start killing the Jews in Soviet occupied territory... He accused a group of Jews of trying to overthrow him and used it as an excuse to start killing the Jewish race off. The only reason why it's not well known is because he died shortly after this began. As a Russian Jew by decent (my great grandparents fled to America during World War I), I find your defense of Stalin and your condemnation of the "racist" American culture to a tiny bit hypocritical.

The only way you can "prove me wrong" is through socialist propoganda rather than real history. Tread lightly, son, cause you're playing ball with a history grad student... That means I have laser eyes.

Bozhe moi, here am I, calling myself the Ace of Spades and treating this like an anime brawl, and up comes a guy with the Blood-Soaked Axe of Reason.

Ah well. ;)

I guess I should let you enjoy yourself, Rathanan. You're better-suited to deal with him than I am.

Nonsense, we can tag team.

Nonsense, we can tag team.

See, THAT'S communism, sharing! :D

See, THAT'S communism, sharing! :D

That's true... Back off kid, this is about ME! The INVIDIDUAL!

That's true... Back off kid, this is about ME! The INVIDIDUAL!

Y'know, I am thinking of applying some of my moves on him. Mmm. By the way, five bucks say he's gonna either:

1- Call you a Bourgeois.
2- Claim you studied "Bourgeois History".

Ah well. TO THE BOURGEOISMOBILE!!!

Bourgeois and proud... Though I don't have all that much money. Most of my earnings go into silly things like rent, food, and cigarettes (most my schooling is paid for because I work as a Teaching Assistant... teehee)...

Yes, that's right, I smoke cigarettes... The evil device by the evil Bourgeois tobacco companies to destroy the health of the working class. IT'S A PLOT, I TELL YAH!

Anyhow, it portrays Stalin as a "murderer"

yeah... i'm sure he was a really swell guy with zero character flaws... just misunderstood really.... i'm sure those millions of dead had nothing to do with him.... honestly...

yeah... i'm sure he was a really swell guy with zero character flaws... just misunderstood really.... i'm sure those millions of dead had nothing to do with him.... honestly...

Everybody knows they were evil B-Word From French who commited mass suicide to give our beloved Unca Joe bad publicity. :D

Guys, Andaras is b&.

Alas, I am undone! No one on the forums could make me laugh anywhere NEAR as much as he could.

Woah guys..........I Think he's a communist.

Woah guys..........I Think he's a communist.

Nope, he's not, and neither was Stalin.

'Gilmore Girls' is a individualist-drama about a family of latte fast-talking liberals, and which constantly glorifies petite-bourgeois 'sophisticated' lifestyle, which the 'lowest' character being a small shop-owner, the grandparents being 'aristocratically'-styled bourgeois proper, the parents petite-bourgeois and the children selfish Harvard-grad relationship-obsessed pampered snobs.

In one episode Rory(sp) gives her grandfather a book by Milton Friedman, and talk about the 'stupidity of intervention in the market place', and in general the show glorifies bourgeois 'freedom' of the pampered middle-men and the shows' class basis is upon them.

Firstly, Milton Friedman was a underappreciated genius, and there should be statues of him in every city there is.

Secondly, you seem to be way more familiar with the Gilmore Girls than anybody who is not a thirteen year old girl should be. What's next, you going to lecture us about the hidden capitalist sub-text of Hannah Montanaor High School Musical?

Firstly, Milton Friedman was a underappreciated genius, and there should be statues of him in every city there is.

Secondly, you seem to be way more familiar with the Gilmore Girls than anybody who is not a thirteen year old girl should be. What's next, you going to lecture us about the hidden capitalist sub-text of Hannah Montanaor High School Musical?

Only if he sneaks in under a new screen name. Comrade Andaras has been sent to Siberia permanently.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m209/gswelcome/dco0139l.jpg

:p

Tovarisch Andaras is dead and buried. Why hasn't this thread been locked?

Comrade Andaras has been sent to Siberia permanently.

May he go forth, inspired by the true teachings of Marxism-Leninism (as taught by Stalin) and bring about the Glorious Soviet Socialist Republic of Kolyma! :hail: