NationStates Jolt Archive

The Beijing Olympics are set to begin in about seven days. Aside from the actual competition results, what are your predictions for the upcoming event? Do you think Beijing will meet the health and safety standards they promised when they won the right to host the Games? Will the event be a political "success" for China? Will the Games be overshadowed by protests, or repercussions against protesters?

Sorry if the topic is a bit vague, I've just been thinking about the upcoming Olympics a lot and all of the political ramifications. I hope they're peaceful and everyone can focus on the competitions, but I'm worried that they could turn into a mini Munich.

well, if any of the groups inside china that don't like being part of china are smart they will protest or do something more dramatic like killing athletes.

That said, I don't think they can pass this chance up, to stir up some trouble, so I think the games will be a failure for the Chinese. More interesting would be if there will be any war between China and Taiwan after the games, I know they were doing some sword rattling a year ago, but I haven't heard much lately about that.

I hear China has brought in some Mammoth tanks for the special event :)

Notice how the "Save Tibet" and "Save Dafur" only came up when China got all the lucrative oil contacts in Sudan, and the West was left out?

All the anti-China stuff is totally concocted by the imperialist camp and Zionists.

china should have never got the olympics due to its human right and record. Its not a democracy.

The government knows how to control its citizens. We will see if they can control foreign journalists.

Notice how the "Save Tibet" and "Save Dafur" only came up when China got all the lucrative oil contacts in Sudan, and the West was left out?

All the anti-China stuff is totally concocted by the imperialist camp and Zionists.

Always the JEWS, eh Andaras, my boy?

Always the JEWS, eh Andaras, my boy?

Jews =/= Zionists

Please, stop with the racial crybaby-ing, we all know that Zionists think Jews are the superior race, and that all others are 'goys' (slaves, chattel etc).

I'm hoping for a total revolution, if only because there's not much in the news these days.

Well, if LG is bored I guess, we might see a revolution, lead by clowns, occur in China.

Well, if LG is bored I guess, we might see a revolution, lead by clowns, occur in China.

Will The Joker be involved?

Something will happen, China will get a TON of flak, and they will shoot whoever put in Beijing as a possible host city.

Notice how the "Save Tibet" and "Save Dafur" only came up when China got all the lucrative oil contacts in Sudan, and the West was left out?

All the anti-China stuff is totally concocted by the imperialist camp and Zionists.

Flat out lie. "Save Tibet" has been around for a long time. The Olympics gave a focal point for the cause in recent years. As for the Darfur thing, there's still a lot of apathy from the West, but any sanctions on the Government there(which, if implemented, would also cut off trade with the West) are being blocked by China to protect their genocidal little trading partners. But I guess facts can't stand in the way of defending any nation which calls itself Communist, even if said nation has utterly betrayed the principles of Communism, and is now just another semi-capitalist dictatorship. I suppose its also just part of a day's work for an ardent Communist to defend those who aid and abet, or carry out mass murder.:rolleyes:

Real freedom does not come from lies, oppression and mass murder, the tactics of Communist revolutionaries. With Communism, its just a different guy holding the gun to your head. Real freedom comes from democracy, and it is the democratic camp, not the imperialist camp, which has raised the greatest cry against Chinese atrocities.

Well, considering this event is a make or break situation for the legitimacy of the communist regime, yeah I think they'll actually try to maintain stability and make sure things run as smoothly as possible.

I don't think anyone in china (whether or not they support the communists) will try to sabotage the olympics because it's a matter of cultural prestige as well and important to the common people in china.

Edit..

china should have never got the olympics due to its human right and record. Its not a democracy.

If we gave it to Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, China easily deserves it. Their human rights record is nothing to be proud of, but it pales in comparison to those two heavy hitters.

If we gave it to Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, China easily deserves it. Their human rights record is nothing to be proud of, but it pales in comparison to those two heavy hitters.

Are we talking about current human rights records or throughout their entire histories? Because if we include the past few decades (50s, 60s, great leap backward, cultural revolution anyone?), it seems Mao the Butcher has quite a bit of blood on his hands. 30+ million in peacetime, too.

Are we talking about current human rights records or throughout their entire histories? Because if we include the past few decades (50s, 60s, great leap backward, cultural revolution anyone?), it seems Mao the Butcher has quite a bit of blood on his hands. 30+ million in peacetime, too.

Current records. So, basically Nazi Germany pre-Holocaust and the Soviet Union under Brezhnev. Seriously, there's some debate as to whether or not Mao is the first and currently only member of the 100-million-deaths club, as brutal and horrifying an "achievement" as that is.

I hear China has brought in some Mammoth tanks for the special event :)

A CnC reference? You rock.

I imagine the Chinese gov't has long been preparing to deal with any of the groups that could potentially cause problems. There will likely be some protests but I think they will have a pretty tight lockdown through the duration of the games.

Nothing will happen.

Notice how the "Save Tibet" and "Save Dafur" only came up when China got all the lucrative oil contacts in Sudan, and the West was left out?

All the anti-China stuff is totally concocted by the imperialist camp and Zionists.

Flat out lie. "Save Tibet" has been around for a long time, with the Olympics providing a focus for the movement in recent months. Regarding Darfur, there's still a lot of apathy from the West, but proposed sanctions(which would also cut trade with the West if passed) are being blocked by China to protect their genocidal little trading partners. But I guess facts can't get in the way of defending any nation which calls itself Communist? (Even if said nation has long betrayed the principles of Communism, and is now nothing but another semi-capitalist dictatorship). And I suppose its just part of a day's work for a good Communist to defend those who aid and abet or outright commit mass murder.:rolleyes:

Real security and rights for the working classes does not come from the lies, oppression, and brutality of defunct Communist policies. They come, if at all, from constitutional democracy, and it is the democratic camp, not the imperialist camp or the Zionists, that has raised the greater cry against China's atrocities.

snip

What a joke, you pissy little liberal shits know nothing, and do not understand that you are but pawns for imperialist Capital, and your petty-little emotional rants and upcries are but the ammunition with which the ruling class guns down it's opponents.

Open your eyes fool.

What a joke, you pissy little liberal shits know nothing, and do not understand that you are but pawns for imperialist Capital, and your petty-little emotional rants and upcries are but the ammunition with which the ruling class guns down it's opponents.

Open your eyes fool.

You fail to understand arguments beyond the propaganda you have blindly swallowed. You are a puppet dancing on the worn, dusty threads of a blind man, clinging pitifully to a philosophy which has manifestly failed.

I am a liberal and proud of it, but I am not an imperialist or a pawn of the ruling class. Name one Communist country that has done better for its people than the democratic nations you despise. Communism has brought poverty and brutally oppressive government. Stalin gunned down far more opponents than the previous ruling class. Nothing much changed under Communism, besides the names of the ruling eliet and the particular flavor of propaganda they used to silence the people. If anything, Communist regimes brought more suffering, inequality, poverty, and oppression than the regimes they replaced.

The fact that you chose to flame me rather than attempt any sort of a logical rebuttal denotes desperation, and an inability to back your beliefs with solid arguments. I suggest you open your eyes, and observe the lessons the rest of the world has already learned from the failiur of Communism.

What a joke, you pissy little liberal shits know nothing, and do not understand that you are but pawns for imperialist Capital, and your petty-little emotional rants and upcries are but the ammunition with which the ruling class guns down it's opponents.

Open your eyes fool.

Andaras, if you have a point you want to make, make it, you are free to do so, but please refrain from pointless flaming and cursing in this thread.

bourgeois propaganda
Communism has never 'failed', it has liberated the working class and pulled toiling people out of poverty wherever it has been implemented. The decay and destructive effects are in Capital alone, and in that decaying anarchy of bourgeois property which is violently flailing as it slowly dies.

Anyway, a prediction I've been making since sometime last year is that the Beijing Olympics might have a knock-on effect to the US election. My shaky theory goes that China tops the medals table, this adds to America's current lack of confidence and they vote in experience over change - people make safe choices when threatened.

Despite the mathematics involved with China topping the table - I'm going to guess track & field is more varied than usual, which will balance China's lack of representation there - and despite anyone's opinions on who represents 'experience' et al, the fact remains that, for a month, China's going to be in the spotlight, each and every day.

The world is aware of China but it hasn't really had concentrated media attention - it will now and I wonder whether the effect will be greater on the outside world.

2c and all.

I live in China and know that the people here are a very patriotic with a true love for their country - the average person, young and old, here is very proud of the fact that Beijing is hosting the games.

This is a new low for Andaras. I've had a few exchanges with him before, and while debating him was like running into a brick wall repeatedly, he never, to my knowledge, engaged in this kind of virulent flaming.

Not that I'm nessissarily opposed to cussing at someone if their stupid enough, though I try to restrain my self on this particular forum. Still, it says something about the quality of your philosophy when the only response you can make to a challenge is to launch personal attacks, or to misrepresent your opponent's argument.

This is a new low for Andaras. I've had a few exchanges with him before, and while debating him was like running into a brick wall repeatedly, he never, to my knowledge, engaged in this kind of virulent flaming.

Not that I'm nessissarily opposed to cussing at someone if their stupid enough, though I try to restrain my self on this particular forum. Still, it says something about the quality of your philosophy when the only response you can make to a challenge is to launch personal attacks, or to misrepresent your opponent's argument.

I honestly do no care what position you hold, I only care if you are on the side of labor or capital, their is no alternative to this choice. So you can have infinite variety of bourgeois ideologies, and I simply do no care to waste my time of them. They are all class enemies to be dealt with appropriately.

So you can whine all you like about 'misrepresenting' your opinion, but the truth is that I do not care for your opinion save that it is an extension of bourgeois property, and that's all I'll ever need to know.

Communism has never 'failed', it has liberated the working class and pulled toiling people out of poverty wherever it has been implemented. The decay and destructive effects are in Capital alone, and in that decaying anarchy of bourgeois property which is violently flailing as it slowly dies.

I suppose Communism has improved the conditions for some workers in some countries. It's quite a leap to go from that to saying that those improvements could not have been made, or improved upon, any other way, or that they justify the enormous loss of life, not only among the well-to-do, but among the working classes as well.

And Communism did not liberate anyone, unless you mean liberty to do, think, and say exactly what the government tells you to. Communism is not liberty, it is simply replacing a large number of cruel masters with one alone, the omnipotent totalitarian state. Name one Communist country where this has not been the case. Or try to argue that this is justifiable. Either way, you'll lose. The facts are on my side, at least more than they are on yours, as shown by the fact that your arguments amount to simply saying "I'm right, you're wrong" again and again, intersperced with a few clumsy misrepresentations of my arguments and obscene personal attacks.

Get a room you two, release the sexual tension between you.

I honestly do no care what position you hold, I only care if you are on the side of labor or capital, their is no alternative to this choice. So you can have infinite variety of bourgeois ideologies, and I simply do no care to waste my time of them. They are all class enemies to be dealt with appropriately.

So you can whine all you like about 'misrepresenting' your opinion, but the truth is that I do not care for your opinion save that it is an extension of bourgeois property, and that's all I'll ever need to know.

You have yet, to my knowledge, to provide a single piece of concrete evidence that your assertions have any validity, or even to allude to a single historical example.

In arguing that there is your way and the enemy, with no compromise possible, you show the same pathological thought process behind religious fundimentalism. It is an attitude that isolates you, forces others to unite against you, and has no place in a civilized society. You have no arguments, any more than some one who tries to debate science by using "its God's Word" as their only argument. You've simply replace God in this scenario with Carl Marx. The underlying logic is just as flawed, or rather, non-existent.

"They are all class enemies to be dealt with appropriately". Since Marx calls for the violent overthrow of class enemies, I could interperate that as a threat against my person.

bourgeois propaganda
I say again, I don't care what the specific of your views are, you support bourgeois property, that is enough for me.

Communism is a historical inevitably of economic development, not a random idea to pop out of the air, as such you speak against it is folly indeed. It would be like like someone in the 18th century saying 'I oppose the development of electricity'.

I say again, I don't care what the specific of your views are, you support bourgeois property, that is enough for me.

Communism is a historical inevitably of economic development, not a random idea to pop out of the air, as such you speak against it is folly indeed. It would be like like someone in the 18th century saying 'I oppose the development of electricity'.

Then why hasn't it come about in any form other than outright violence(with the exception of one or two tiny states and some small villages and towns here and there), and why is it every time it has been put into place in a full out nation it has not only failed, it has caused horrible suffering, economic devestation, and a serious fall in the standard of living to the point where not only did the poor and disfortunate not see their living conditions improv, they actually saw them WORSEN?

Can't NSG just put Andaras on ignore and let his vacuous, fact deprived rants run in a void? I mean this was political predictions for the Beijing Olympics. Who cares what this thread jacker has to say?

That being said, the Beijing Olympics can do a lot of good, or bad, for China. Whatever the effects, real or imagined by the Party. If it goes without a hitch, it will be really be able to boost its public image, as well as solidify its hold and justification among the average Chinese national.

The Chinese have a millenia long history of being at the top of the heap above all other nations, and even the Jin dynasty couldn't squash that. It's only been in the what, last 200 years or so when the tables have been undeniably turned on them. The Olympics will be the signal that they're finally coming back up amongst the nations of the world, and take center stage as Asia's strongman.

Notice that they wanted a lunar mission by 2015? Right now, China is playing catch up. Everything that has served as a point of pride for the nations around the world, China wants to do as well. The Beijing Olympics is a part of that.

From a political standpoint though, it may not change much. Culturally, the Chinese have always respected a strong governance system, with the real power struggle only happening in the highest echelons of the social strata. That isn't to say they don't get rid of the worst tyrants, they do, but they're quite willing to put up with a lot of crap so long as stability and prosperity is ensured.

Then why hasn't it come about in any form other than outright violence(with the exception of one or two tiny states and some small villages and towns here and there), and why is it every time it has been put into place in a full out nation it has not only failed, it has caused horrible suffering, economic devestation, and a serious fall in the standard of living to the point where not only did the poor and disfortunate not see their living conditions improv, they actually saw them WORSEN?

Well, I would say in the fairness of communism, is that first: Marx believe it can only come about through violent revolt, as he doubted the ruling class would give up power willingly (of course, while he wasn't completely wrong, he forgot that by telling them that these things would happen, and then seeing that they did indeed start to happen, the ruling class maybe willing to make concessions), second is that every communist state failed is simply because the entire theory relied upon the proletariat rising up (once again, as only by a majority action could the revolution break the historical string of changing leaders within the same system; most communist regimes were installed by a minority and quickly devolved into a ruling class); long story short is that they didn't, and never will.

Sorry if the topic is a bit vague, I've just been thinking about the upcoming Olympics a lot and all of the political ramifications. I hope they're peaceful and everyone can focus on the competitions, but I'm worried that they could turn into a mini Munich.

It will be more like a Berlin of the 21st Century; this time, a Communist regime attempting to seek legitimacy among the nations of the West. This is going to be a propaganda fest of the sort that we haven't seen since August 1936.

If we gave it to Nazi Germany

That's a common misconception. Germany was actually given the Games before Hitler came to power.

Not to mention Nazi Germany hadn't quite been revealed to be the second-worst violator of human rights in history yet...(the worst being, of course, the Soviet Union.)

It will be more like a Berlin of the 21st Century; this time, a Communist regime attempting to seek legitimacy among the nations of the West. This is going to be a propaganda fest of the sort that we haven't seen since August 1936.

This is kind of what I thought -- I couldn't decide on a poll option because I don't think there will be a consensus on what the story of the Beijing games is. I don't even think that the Chinese government is particularly interested in what the rest of the world thinks of the games; their main concern will be convincing the Chinese people that the games are an astounding success and proof of China's re-emergence as a world power. All they have to do to achieve this is to get enough positive stories about the games out on Xinhua, and give brief statements dismissing any other perspective.

As for the international stories, I'm sure there will be some negative stories about China. If there's one surefire way to tick off journalists, it's blocking their access to information, and that's what the Chinese government has decided to do. I suspect there won't be much in the way of actual negative events to report, as the Chinese have done a really good job of brutally repressing any potential disruption. The overall story will probably be the same as all the recent games: blah blah internationalism, blah blah celebration of excellence, blah blah medal count.

I'm not going to bother to watch, myself. I'm only mildly interested in the sporting events, and all the propaganda makes me sick.