NationStates Jolt Archive

I know people love to complain about the USA but could you imagine the US government sending you a booklet telling you what clothes you can and cant wear, what you may or may not say to a foreigner, and my favorite part how to stand? ( feet should be slightly apart or in the shape of a V or Y when standing)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/31/world/main4310034.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_4310034

When you start thinking America is so terrible, just read this article a few times and it suddenly doesnt seem as bad as you think it is.

The slogan I participate I contribute I enjoy reminds me of the Pink Floyd movie scence in The Wall where all the school kids wearing the same clothes and all looking the same fall into the meat grinder. Its creepy.

but they arent being forced as far as i know, this is merely saying how to best accomodte and look sensible for foreign visitors. its like me tidying the house and dressing in reasonable attire if im having a party, just making sure i dont look a shambles so people will come over again if i have another party

but they arent being forced as far as i know, this is merely saying how to best accomodte and look sensible for foreign visitors. its like me tidying the house and dressing in reasonable attire if im having a party, just making sure i dont look a shambles so people will come over again if i have another party

Do you recall any government pamphlets suggesting how you should dress and what you should or shouldnt say to foreigners or how you should stand properly when the Olympics was in Atlanta or in Lake Placid NY?

So, the new slogan against people complaining about PATRIOT act and other such tripe will be:

"America: At least we're not as bad as China."?

Okay, but you're not as good as Canada either.

Okay, but you're not as good as Canada either.

Canadas new Army slogan: An Army Of One. His Name is Bob.

Canadas new Army slogan: An Army Of One. His Name is Bob.

Your point? That has served Canada well enough. You wouldn't NEED such a big army if you were a more peaceful nation.

Influential, is actually the word I'd use. Because of quirks of fate, the US is the single dominant country in military terms (things like World War II, the pacification of Western Europe, and the collapse of the Soviet empire come to mind as the primary causes). Because of this, and because our military is "so far ahead" of everyone else, we get stuck with an awful lot of these "global policeman" type duties. The Navy is the most obvious example of this, in the role it plays in anti-piracy and anti-smuggling interdiction.

Beyond that, the US military power is a tacit guarantee of the international status quo.

I know people love to complain about the USA but could you imagine the US government sending you a booklet telling you what clothes you can and cant wear, what you may or may not say to a foreigner, and my favorite part how to stand? ( feet should be slightly apart or in the shape of a V or Y when standing)

I can picture any government doing that... (hey, corporations do that routinely) but I also can picture the use people of most countries would find for said booklet.

Ok, so, I love my country and all, but saying "We aren't bad because we are better than China!" is kind of silly. When you get down to it, we are better off than the vast majority of the world. You might as well say "Life in America is great cus we aren't like Chad!"

While life in the states is good (especially compared to China), and we shouldn't take anything we have for granted, it doesn't change the fact that we have problems that need fixing.

Beyond that, the US military power is a tacit guarantee of the international status quo.

With the demons Republicans are turning out to be, I feel safe in speaking for the rest of the world when I say WE DON'T WANT YOUR HELP WITH THAT!

While life in the states is good (especially compared to China), and we shouldn't take anything we have for granted, it doesn't change the fact that we have problems that need fixing.

Cheers to that.

It sounds like this is done to brush up the image.

There's nothing wrong with it. It sounds like it's supposed to help them deal with all the foreigners. A general guideline. Which is a good idea. Help bridge the cultural differences.

Do you recall any government pamphlets suggesting how you should dress and what you should or shouldnt say to foreigners or how you should stand properly when the Olympics was in Atlanta or in Lake Placid NY?

I'd be surprised if there weren't some, simply to encourage tolerance of the increased amount of tourists, to point out that different cultures act differently. I simply suspect not a lot was made of it since it would seem common courtesy.

People in China have little compunction in asking your salary, that is not expected in the West, they're making people aware of these differences.

Ok, so, I love my country and all, but saying "We aren't bad because we are better than China!" is kind of silly. When you get down to it, we are better off than the vast majority of the world. You might as well say "Life in America is great cus we aren't like Chad!"

While life in the states is good (especially compared to China), and we shouldn't take anything we have for granted, it doesn't change the fact that we have problems that need fixing.

I'd have to go find the poll but more people have hope for the future in China than America, by far. People forget some of the poverty, despair and misery in America - don't think that the Chinese feel repressed on a daily basis, most don't, most are quite happy with life, more than America I suspect.

With the demons Republicans are turning out to be, I feel safe in speaking for the rest of the world when I say WE DON'T WANT YOUR HELP WITH THAT!

Cool, you don't have hundreds of ICBMs (belonging to a country you're supposedly at peace with) pointing at you at any given time. Unless you're speaking for Russia. :D

EDIT: Barrington LOL, the Chinese are happier than Americans... Only when they're told to be.

Cool, you don't have hundreds of ICBMs (belonging to a country you're supposedly at peace with) pointing at you at any given time. Unless you're speaking for Russia. :D

EDIT: Barrington LOL, the Chinese are happier than Americans... Only when they're told to be.

:)

Live in your bubble why don't you.

:)

Live in your bubble why don't you.

So the standard of living is not associated with happiness in any way?

I'd have to go find the poll but more people have hope for the future in China than America, by far. People forget some of the poverty, despair and misery in America - don't think that the Chinese feel repressed on a daily basis, most don't, most are quite happy with life, more than America I suspect.

I'd be interested in that poll. Not questioning your integrity, I would just be curious.

Also, I feel like the Chinese are happier with life because they don't know better. A much larger amount of Chinese live in poverty than Americans (USians, whatever floats your boat), and lets be honest-the government there really doesn't give two shits about the vast majority of its people. It's easy to be content when you don't know there is a better life out there.

So the standard of living is not associated with happiness in any way?

Relatively.

I'd be interested in that poll. Not questioning your integrity, I would just be curious.

Also, I feel like the Chinese are happier with life because they don't know better. A much larger amount of Chinese live in poverty than Americans (USians, whatever floats your boat), and lets be honest-the government there really doesn't give two shits about the vast majority of its people. It's easy to be content when you don't know there is a better life out there.

You can have a look here - http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=249

You can take what you want from it but check the Satisfaction with National Conditions at the end.

People seem to think other country's people are stupid, that they're brainwashed in some way while forgetting that China has 5, 000 years of history, of philosophers, of intellectuals, poets, artists and more. It's not like they're unable to think nor know the truth about their government nor have a realistic opinion of their outlook.

Opportunities in China are manifold, many see that and they're happy about it.

People seem to think other country's people are stupid, that they're brainwashed in some way while forgetting that China has 5, 000 years of history, of philosophers, of intellectuals, poets, artists and more. It's not like they're unable to think nor know the truth about their government nor have a realistic opinion of their outlook.


If this was the case then why does such a nation of free thinkers tolerate so much government censorship?

You can have a look here - http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=249

You can take what you want from it but check the Satisfaction with National Conditions at the end.

People seem to think other country's people are stupid, that they're brainwashed in some way while forgetting that China has 5, 000 years of history, of philosophers, of intellectuals, poets, artists and more. It's not like they're unable to think nor know the truth about their government nor have a realistic opinion of their outlook.

Opportunities in China are manifold, many see that and they're happy about it.

Thank you :)
An interesting read. I appreciate it.

If this was the case then why does such a nation of free thinkers tolerate so much government censorship?

For the same reason prisoners tend to stay in prison when they could easily outnumber the guards and mass breakout.

People are institutionalised, that doesn't mean they can't think, it just means they get by as best they can within parameters.

Where they see change, which is visible in China, there's hope, where's there's an increase in lifestyle, there's happiness.

As I say, it's relative but the main point is that the Chinese are not the brainwashed sheep people make them out to be.

As I say, it's relative but the main point is that the Chinese are not the brainwashed sheep people make them out to be.

The concept of brainwashing is to only expose a person to one viewpoint and promote that point. The whole goal of government censorship is to create brainwashed sheep. This is why they prohibit debate and dissenting opinion.

The concept of brainwashing is to only expose a person to one viewpoint and promote that point. The whole goal of government censorship is to create brainwashed sheep. This is why they prohibit debate and dissenting opinion.

Far more debate and dissenting opinion occurs than you think, far more than there was, say, over the Iraq war in the US media prior to invasion.

Sure, one is demand and one is self-inflicted but the fact remains that there's a whole lot of civilisation in China, it's far more complicated than people might think.

The idea that Chinese people are automatons who follow government pamphlets without question is wrong.

A better way to think about it is this: where you work for a company, do you openly dissent to management, or do you toe the line and keep your job? We all self-censor to some extent and China simply works under a more authoritarian, less of a shareholder-style, company than others.

Yet some may view America as, say, a Ford, a once great company that is sinking to its knees, in danger of bankruptcy. Some view China as, say, Haier, lower end of the market but growing at a phenomenal rate.

Ford may be worth far more than Haier - I don't know, it's just an analogy - but do its employees feel happier, more hope for the future?

S'all relative.

For the same reason prisoners tend to stay in prison when they could easily outnumber the guards and mass breakout.

People are institutionalised, that doesn't mean they can't think, it just means they get by as best they can within parameters.

Where they see change, which is visible in China, there's hope, where's there's an increase in lifestyle, there's happiness.

As I say, it's relative but the main point is that the Chinese are not the brainwashed sheep people make them out to be.

Stanford University Prison Experiment anyone?
http://www.prisonexp.org/

Apparently people acting according to their position has a lot less to do with individual ignorance that some might suspect. Seems like sword goes both way, just like how some libertarians act like libertarians.

As far as human right is concern, I don't see why can't a government advertise a dress code in an event of international importance like Olympic. Here in the US, I see posters, booklets, and all kinds of ads of what we should do all the time, from both corporations and governments. As long as it isn't forced it shouldn't be weighted as anything more than that. It simply offers an opportunity that, for those who want to show their patriotism, they have an uniformed and orderly method of doing so.

In a practical sense, if you been to China before you will know why a guidebook like this one is necessary.

A better way to think about it is this: where you work for a company, do you openly dissent to management, or do you toe the line and keep your job? We all self-censor to some extent and China simply works under a more authoritarian, less of a shareholder-style, company than others.

Let's not forget, China has, along with its 5,000 years of civilization and nationhood, had nearly an uninterrupted rule of authoritarian imperial dynasties, along with the assorted bloodshed that accompanies new dynasties, but also the prosperity that more than a few of them brought. They know what works, and have a lot of precedent for sticking to it.

Stanford University Prison Experiment anyone?
http://www.prisonexp.org/

Apparently people acting according to their position has a lot less to do with individual ignorance that some might suspect. Seems like sword goes both way, just like how some libertarians act like libertarians.

As far as human right is concern, I don't see why can't a government advertise a dress code in an event of international importance like Olympic. Here in the US, I see posters, booklets, and all kinds of ads of what we should do all the time, from both corporations and governments. As long as it isn't forced it shouldn't be weighted any anything more than that. It simply offers an opportunity that, for those who want to show their patriotism, they have an uniformed and orderly method of doing so.

In a practical sense, if you been to China before you will know why a guidebook like this one is necessary.

'Cha bu duo' as they'd say in China. Spitting anywhere and everywhere was commonplace in Beijing just 5 years ago, still fairly commonplace overall but far better, SARS certainly helped in its own way.

The communist ideal was to be a peasant for a good 50 years, blue suits and all. It's changing rapidly, doesn't mean a pamphlet or two to prepare people for different customs isn't welcome.

You can have a look here - http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=249

You can take what you want from it but check the Satisfaction with National Conditions at the end.

People seem to think other country's people are stupid, that they're brainwashed in some way while forgetting that China has 5, 000 years of history, of philosophers, of intellectuals, poets, artists and more. It's not like they're unable to think nor know the truth about their government nor have a realistic opinion of their outlook.

Opportunities in China are manifold, many see that and they're happy about it.

Yes but you are forgetting that China also has been killing outspoken intellectuals for the past 5,000 years too. Every Dynasty has done it.

Let's not forget, China has, along with its 5,000 years of civilization and nationhood, had nearly an uninterrupted rule of authoritarian imperial dynasties, along with the assorted bloodshed that accompanies new dynasties, but also the prosperity that more than a few of them brought. They know what works, and have a lot of precedent for sticking to it.

One could say the same for Europe aside from the last 60 years.

The times they are a-changing, the information exchange happening globally right now, in my opinion, precludes a return to isolation and the accompanying control.

Any Chinese person worth his salt knows how to get around censorship, from mirror servers to more, hell, anonymouse.org worked until a couple of months ago.

EDIT: I'm out of battery so likely unable to respond further until (my) tomorrow.

Yes but you are forgetting that China also has been killing outspoken intellectuals for the past 5,000 years too. Every Dynasty has done it.

Yes they seriously need to learn from the more "civilized" western society, where we mask outspoken intellectuals by filtering them out with academic interest, and overwhelm the media with noise of corporate interest.

And I mean this sincerely because I rather be silenced than killed.

I know people love to complain about the USA but could you imagine the US government sending you a booklet telling you what clothes you can and cant wear, what you may or may not say to a foreigner, and my favorite part how to stand? ( feet should be slightly apart or in the shape of a V or Y when standing)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/31/world/main4310034.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_4310034

When you start thinking America is so terrible, just read this article a few times and it suddenly doesnt seem as bad as you think it is.

The slogan I participate I contribute I enjoy reminds me of the Pink Floyd movie scence in The Wall where all the school kids wearing the same clothes and all looking the same fall into the meat grinder. Its creepy.

Interestingly enough, this is just the tip of the iceberg. CBS news is usually a little watered down anyways.

China is also shutting down almost all polluting plants in Beijing, banning cars from driving everyday, refusing to let anyone test the quality of the air in Beijing, nearly banning all forms of protest, telling restaurants that they cannot serve certain foods, et.c.

LINK (http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11751367)

I dunno what you guys think but this seems pretty brutal and invasive to me.

I know people love to complain about the USA but could you imagine the US government sending you a booklet telling
But amerika am a diktatorship!!11111!11111!!
dubya kills thousands of innocent terrorists each year:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Cuba has a law, but many of you will probably find it logical so Ok.

Citizens have to give up thier place in line for tourists. Tourists come first.

I see the usual apologists of communist and other such governments are coming out of the woodwork like usual. But they would not wish those kinds of laws in their own nation of origin. I knew these kinds of comments were going to be posted as soon as I read your introduction page. It figures.

I know people love to complain about the USA but could you imagine the US government sending you a booklet telling you what clothes you can and cant wear, what you may or may not say to a foreigner, and my favorite part how to stand? ( feet should be slightly apart or in the shape of a V or Y when standing)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/31/world/main4310034.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_4310034

When you start thinking America is so terrible, just read this article a few times and it suddenly doesnt seem as bad as you think it is.

The slogan I participate I contribute I enjoy reminds me of the Pink Floyd movie scence in The Wall where all the school kids wearing the same clothes and all looking the same fall into the meat grinder. Its creepy.

So, the new slogan against people complaining about PATRIOT act and other such tripe will be:

"America: At least we're not as bad as China."?

Okay, but you're not as good as Canada either.
*Snicker*
Interestingly enough, this is just the tip of the iceberg. CBS news is usually a little watered down anyways.

China is also shutting down almost all polluting plants in Beijing, banning cars from driving everyday, refusing to let anyone test the quality of the air in Beijing, nearly banning all forms of protest, telling restaurants that they cannot serve certain foods, et.c.

LINK (http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11751367)

I dunno what you guys think but this seems pretty brutal and invasive to me.
Seems? It is invasive!

I'd have to go find the poll but more people have hope for the future in China than America, by far. People forget some of the poverty, despair and misery in America - don't think that the Chinese feel repressed on a daily basis, most don't, most are quite happy with life, more than America I suspect.

Ahahaha. No.

You have no idea how frustrating it is for the Chinese masses to suffer under the brutal and corrupt regime of the communist government. Sure, the people in China aren't suffering from the same misery as Americans (job, relationship, drug-dependency, etc) but if you think the Chinese people are happy with the government, then the commies have done a fairly good job at presenting themselves to be a pillar of stability and legitimacy.

Allow me to present this example.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-06-29-china_N.htm

This happened while I was on vacation in China. The communist government didn't want embarrassing discussions on this before they came up with their own version of the story so they shut down half the internet in order to protect their own reputation. BBC, down. NBC, down. Guardian, down. CNN, down. Facebook, down. Youtube, down. Myspace, down. (Ironically pictures were up all over myspace, you could see burning buildings with the chinese myspace watermark)

As I say, it's relative but the main point is that the Chinese are not the brainwashed sheep people make them out to be.

Uh, yes they are. Well, some are. I've met some people who are still completely convinced that the communist government is infallible and believe every single piece of Chinese media bullshit that gets broadcasted. Not surprising considering first graders in China are indoctrinated with that revolution shit.

I know people love to complain about the USA but could you imagine the US government sending you a booklet telling you what clothes you can and cant wear, what you may or may not say to a foreigner, and my favorite part how to stand? ( feet should be slightly apart or in the shape of a V or Y when standing)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/31/world/main4310034.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_4310034

When you start thinking America is so terrible, just read this article a few times and it suddenly doesnt seem as bad as you think it is.

The slogan I participate I contribute I enjoy reminds me of the Pink Floyd movie scence in The Wall where all the school kids wearing the same clothes and all looking the same fall into the meat grinder. Its creepy.

it seems more like how to interact with the INTERNATIONAL crowd that will be converging on China.

The book advises that there should be no public displays of affection, feet should be slightly apart or in the shape of a V or Y when standing, and a handshake should not last more than three seconds.

Don't ask foreigners their age, marital status, income, past experience, address, personal life, religious beliefs or political beliefs, it says.

sounds all common sense, but there are some cultures where PDA's are common and others were it is taboo.