NationStates Jolt Archive

I had found this a while ago, and I figured I would throw this out to you guys and get some opinions on it.

I stumbled across this National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive while traipsing around the internet minding my own business, and decided to read it. Now, I could be paranoid (probably) but from what I gather, the president could effectively become the "coordinator" of government in times of emergency.

Original:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html

Here's a few excerpts that give me these thoughts:

(2) In this directive:

(e) "Enduring Constitutional Government," or "ECG," means a cooperative effort among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the Federal Government, coordinated by the President, as a matter of comity with respect to the legislative and judicial branches and with proper respect for the constitutional separation of powers among the branches, to preserve the constitutional framework under which the Nation is governed and the capability of all three branches of government to execute constitutional responsibilities and provide for orderly succession, appropriate transition of leadership, and interoperability and support of the National Essential Functions during a catastrophic emergency;

Not so extreme...


(6) The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government. In order to advise and assist the President in that function, the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism (APHS/CT) is hereby designated as the National Continuity Coordinator. The National Continuity Coordinator, in coordination with the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs (APNSA), without exercising directive authority, shall coordinate the development and implementation of continuity policy for executive departments and agencies. The Continuity Policy Coordination Committee (CPCC), chaired by a Senior Director from the Homeland Security Council staff, designated by the National Continuity Coordinator, shall be the main day-to-day forum for such policy coordination.

Basically giving everyone control of different aspects of government.

It's a long read, but I encourage you guys to read it, it's really quite interesting.

And please, Discuss!

Yeah, they could. Won't happen before these elections, though, because the Republicans are smart enough to play the long game.

Does President Bush lose any immunity privileges once he steps down, I'm going to guess that he'll look to grant himself protection from prosecution and, further, that whoever succeeds him will uphold that protection.

I'm not certain of the mechanics of this but I'd bet that if there's any danger of a case, he'll be exempted, probably pardoned a la Nixon-Ford situation.

To some extent, I'd agree, a president should be free to make decisions without worrying if he'll be prosecuted later, though, to another extent, I don't agree.

I'll be interested to see though I admit I'm not fully aware of the legal protections and implications of stepping down.

I had found this a while ago, and I figured I would throw this out to you guys and get some opinions on it.

I stumbled across this National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive while traipsing around the internet minding my own business, and decided to read it. Now, I could be paranoid (probably) but from what I gather, the president could effectively become the "coordinator" of government in times of emergency.

Original:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html

Here's a few excerpts that give me these thoughts:

(2) In this directive:

(e) "Enduring Constitutional Government," or "ECG," means a cooperative effort among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the Federal Government, coordinated by the President, as a matter of comity with respect to the legislative and judicial branches and with proper respect for the constitutional separation of powers among the branches, to preserve the constitutional framework under which the Nation is governed and the capability of all three branches of government to execute constitutional responsibilities and provide for orderly succession, appropriate transition of leadership, and interoperability and support of the National Essential Functions during a catastrophic emergency;

Not so extreme...


(6) The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government. In order to advise and assist the President in that function, the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism (APHS/CT) is hereby designated as the National Continuity Coordinator. The National Continuity Coordinator, in coordination with the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs (APNSA), without exercising directive authority, shall coordinate the development and implementation of continuity policy for executive departments and agencies. The Continuity Policy Coordination Committee (CPCC), chaired by a Senior Director from the Homeland Security Council staff, designated by the National Continuity Coordinator, shall be the main day-to-day forum for such policy coordination.

Basically giving everyone control of different aspects of government.

It's a long read, but I encourage you guys to read it, it's really quite interesting.

And please, Discuss!Well, he failed that bolded part right off the bat.
I'm really not surprised at all that something like this is in the works, signed naturally by him ... typical of what he really wants for this country. Surrounded by these kinds of scenarios as well ....:
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-justicebox29-2008jul29,0,7128707.story
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10028466
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/07/epa-official-di.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/29/MN51121B60.DTL&tsp=1
... that's just today ...

...because the Republicans are smart enough to play the long game.

*tries to keep a straight face*

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-justicebox29-2008jul29,0,7128707.story
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10028466
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/07/epa-official-di.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/29/MN51121B60.DTL&tsp=1
... that's just today ...

Wow.

That one word pretty much sums it up.

Wow.

That one word pretty much sums it up.Just think if you were someone like me, who knew how evil he and his crew were from the get-go ... and have just been dealing with him proving you right ever since. :headbang:

Bush could effectively become a dictator...?

Nope. Bush is incapable of doing anything effectively. :p

He has been a dunce quite effectively.

Bush could effectively become a dictator...?

lol.

I had found this a while ago, and I figured I would throw this out to you guys and get some opinions on it.

I stumbled across this National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive while traipsing around the internet minding my own business, and decided to read it. Now, I could be paranoid (probably) but from what I gather, the president could effectively become the "coordinator" of government in times of emergency.

Original:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html

Here's a few excerpts that give me these thoughts:

(2) In this directive:

(e) "Enduring Constitutional Government," or "ECG," means a cooperative effort among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the Federal Government, coordinated by the President, as a matter of comity with respect to the legislative and judicial branches and with proper respect for the constitutional separation of powers among the branches, to preserve the constitutional framework under which the Nation is governed and the capability of all three branches of government to execute constitutional responsibilities and provide for orderly succession, appropriate transition of leadership, and interoperability and support of the National Essential Functions during a catastrophic emergency;

Not so extreme...


(6) The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government. In order to advise and assist the President in that function, the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism (APHS/CT) is hereby designated as the National Continuity Coordinator. The National Continuity Coordinator, in coordination with the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs (APNSA), without exercising directive authority, shall coordinate the development and implementation of continuity policy for executive departments and agencies. The Continuity Policy Coordination Committee (CPCC), chaired by a Senior Director from the Homeland Security Council staff, designated by the National Continuity Coordinator, shall be the main day-to-day forum for such policy coordination.

Basically giving everyone control of different aspects of government.

It's a long read, but I encourage you guys to read it, it's really quite interesting.

And please, Discuss!

He has been a dunce quite effectively.

Only because he isn't trying to be. If he tried to be a dunce, I'm sure he'd find a way to screw it up. *nod*

well i'm not so sure about shrubery the simple himSELF, but one of his puppet masters COULD emerge from the shadows and do that yes. it's a very real danger, one i HOPE the odds are against, but we don't really KNOW even THAT.

i think we're going to see some interesting things happen in the other direction. not because of whether obama or mckain gets elected, at this point i don't entirely trust either of their intentions either, although i still think obama's the best we've got between them.

i don't know if the democrates are going to get some spine with the corporate mafia seeming to still hold a gun to their head, but there's some possibility of matters concatinating to force some of these issues.

i still wouldn't discount ANY possibility, but i don't think the u.s. would get any further then hitler did if that happened. i do believe it would unite the rest of the planet for mutual damage control. but again i don't THINK its going to get that bad, go that far.

but you do need to get your news from real news places rather then cnn and fox news if you want to understand THE REST of what is ALSO going on, where there is hope, where other possibilities are ALSO comming from.

=^^=
.../\...

All the comments have been funny and awesome so far. You guys would not know what a real dictator is anyways.

Bush could effectively become a dictator...?

lol.

All the comments have been funny and awesome so far. You guys would not know what a real dictator is anyways.

Bush could effectively become a dictator...?

lol.

you don't think his puppet masters hire hit squads and dissappear people? dream on. perhapse you've overlooked the minor little detail of people being detained without cause and tortured?

to hell with bush himself, sure HE'S only their poster boy, but you don't think there are forces that would like to be a dictatorship and AREN'T THAT far from it?

=^^=
.../\...

I think the important thing to say is 'could' he become a dictator. And I think in the proper 19th century definition of the word no, though through opportunistic means because of 9/11 he was been able to usurp powers which other Presidents knew not.

you don't think his puppet masters hire hit squads and dissappear people? dream on. perhapse you've overlooked the minor little detail of people being detained without cause and tortured?

to hell with bush himself, sure HE'S only their poster boy, but you don't think there are forces that would like to be a dictatorship and AREN'T THAT far from it?

=^^=
.../\...

If you are refering to the persons beign detained without cause and tortured. Islamic fanatics who would behead us all including thier own people for disagreeing with thier brand of Islam. Who would behead us all including thier own people for mispelling Islam. And then cry when they know they would do much worse to us and their own people and they would not care.

Sorry got to govern my nations, last democratic exchange of views.

Does President Bush lose any immunity privileges once he steps down, I'm going to guess that he'll look to grant himself protection from prosecution and, further, that whoever succeeds him will uphold that protection.

I'm not certain of the mechanics of this but I'd bet that if there's any danger of a case, he'll be exempted, probably pardoned a la Nixon-Ford situation.

That would only protect him under US domestic law though - he could still be indicted by the International Criminal Court (for example), although since the US hasn't signed up to it he'd have to go abroad before he'd actually be arrested.

If you are refering to the persons beign detained without cause and tortured. Islamic fanatics who would behead us all including thier own people for disagreeing with thier brand of Islam. Who would behead us all including thier own people for mispelling Islam. And then cry when they know they would do much worse to us and their own people and they would not care.

Sorry got to govern my nations, last democratic exchange of views.

define worse. torture is torture. demonstrating the lack of a conscounse is demonstrating the lack of a conscounse. (you don't think christians haven't ended up in abu grabe or gitmo for disagreeing with 'bush's brand of (pseudo)christerism?, or simply happening to live in the inconvinient way of his ripping off their oil?)

the only right made by two wrongs is a political right wing.

but back on subject: bush: no. but chaney, rumsfield and rove, or a triumverate of all three, could very well be waiting in the wings to snatch at whatever chance they might get to do so. THAT i don't see as far fetched at all. or if not them, those particular individuals, others of thier ilk, veted by corporate think tanks. (and they COULD keep bush on as their lightning rod and hood orniment)

=^^=
.../\...

Only because he isn't trying to be. If he tried to be a dunce, I'm sure he'd find a way to screw it up. *nod*

So.... if someone challenged him on a bet to be a dunce of a president, he'd become this messianic savior character overnight?

*tries to keep a straight face*
Alright, alright, "if I was in the Republican Party, I'd be playing the long game" :p

As it stands, this little item is nothing new. It's a common continuity of government program, and those have been around since the advent of nuclear weapons. We've already talked about Bush's own personal contributions to the doctrine of "Continuity of Operations". They are usually associated with the goal of maintaining functioning government in the event of a full-scale nuclear attack, but targeted decapitation attacks could also make activation of such a program a necessity.

Eisenhower was President when the first Continuity of Operations Program was put into place, and for much of their history, these sorts of things remained quite secret. They've been adapted and revised for years, by each successive President. What Bush did, is actually quite unique and bizarrely transparent, because he's shed more light on these sorts of plans than any of his predecessors.

This is not something that can merely be declared, and used to suspend elections, or the transfer of power.

Take off your tinfoil hats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_of_Operations_Plan

Cameroi, you do realize that Rummy and Rove are both out of the administration, and are not at any point in the chain of succession, correct?

I had found this a while ago, and I figured I would throw this out to you guys and get some opinions on it.

I stumbled across this National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive while traipsing around the internet minding my own business, and decided to read it. Now, I could be paranoid (probably) but from what I gather, the president could effectively become the "coordinator" of government in times of emergency.

Original:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html

Here's a few excerpts that give me these thoughts:

(2) In this directive:

(e) "Enduring Constitutional Government," or "ECG," means a cooperative effort among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the Federal Government, coordinated by the President, as a matter of comity with respect to the legislative and judicial branches and with proper respect for the constitutional separation of powers among the branches, to preserve the constitutional framework under which the Nation is governed and the capability of all three branches of government to execute constitutional responsibilities and provide for orderly succession, appropriate transition of leadership, and interoperability and support of the National Essential Functions during a catastrophic emergency;

Not so extreme...


(6) The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government. In order to advise and assist the President in that function, the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism (APHS/CT) is hereby designated as the National Continuity Coordinator. The National Continuity Coordinator, in coordination with the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs (APNSA), without exercising directive authority, shall coordinate the development and implementation of continuity policy for executive departments and agencies. The Continuity Policy Coordination Committee (CPCC), chaired by a Senior Director from the Homeland Security Council staff, designated by the National Continuity Coordinator, shall be the main day-to-day forum for such policy coordination.

Basically giving everyone control of different aspects of government.

It's a long read, but I encourage you guys to read it, it's really quite interesting.

And please, Discuss!

This sort of stuff has been around since the establishment of FEMA.

Originally meant for "continuation" of government during nuclear war, it was written vaguely enough that it could apply to any Presidential declaration of national emergency.

A lot of the original stuff that's still around has neat clauses that allow any Federal employee to requisition your stuff, or requisition your labor for free, in order to ensure "continuation". So, if you have a skill then need, it's "hey you, get on the truck".

In the event of something like a nuclear war, I think the paper in question would be worthless - the government people might be lucky to escape with their lives if caught by irate civilian victims of a nuclear war.

Any President since the late 1970s has had this sort of stuff laying around waiting to be invoked.

As it stands, this little item is nothing new. It's a common continuity of government program, and those have been around since the advent of nuclear weapons. We've already talked about Bush's own personal contributions to the doctrine of "Continuity of Operations". They are usually associated with the goal of maintaining functioning government in the event of a full-scale nuclear attack, but targeted decapitation attacks could also make activation of such a program a necessity.

Eisenhower was President when the first Continuity of Operations Program was put into place, and for much of their history, these sorts of things remained quite secret. They've been adapted and revised for years, by each successive President. What Bush did, is actually quite unique and bizarrely transparent, because he's shed more light on these sorts of plans than any of his predecessors.

This is not something that can merely be declared, and used to suspend elections, or the transfer of power.

Take off your tinfoil hats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_of_Operations_Plan

Yeah but in this day and age, couldn't the president declare anything an emergency?

Also could you cite the old Directives to compare?

So.... if someone challenged him on a bet to be a dunce of a president, he'd become this messianic savior character overnight?

Did you see 'The Simpsons' episode where Homer accidentally succeeded in stopping the nuclear power plant from going china syndrome? It's kind of like that. *nod*

Yeah but in this day and age, couldn't the president declare anything an emergency?

No, they probably couldn't, especially not on a long-term basis. It would need to be a genuine near-apocalyptic event for the President to be able to get away with it for more than a day or two.

Also could you cite the old Directives to compare?

Several were cited in the wikipedia article. There were no wiki links for several of them, but googling will get the job done.

I, for one, welcome our new dunce overlords...

No, because huge corporations gain more political influence through the struggle between the democrat and the republican. So Bush have neither the support of the poor nor the wealthy to try this stunt.

Ah, a Holy American Empire under leadership of Gaius Double-Ulius Bush?

Ah, a Holy American Empire under leadership of Gaius Double-Ulius Bush?

Hey, don't spoil Latin names by associating them with Bush!:p

That would only protect him under US domestic law though - he could still be indicted by the International Criminal Court...

That's the funniest damn thing I've seen all day. As indictments go, that's right up with being deemed a 'Hamburglar' by Mayor McCheese. Where exactly would this court hold it's trial, the Land of Rainbows and Unicorns?

Pres. Bush is exactly as likely to become a dictator as Sen. Obama's nat'l. civillian corps(or whatever the hell that foolishness is called)is to morph into some kind of brownshirt brigade. How about we all take a deep breath and see if we can't avoid letting our imaginations run away with us. Conspiracy theories are fun up to a point, but you take them seriously and you'll end up like David Ickes.

Any leader can become a dictator. I'm pretty sure that even sweeden's PM or whatever they have could declare a state of emergancy and take over.

That's the funniest damn thing I've seen all day. As indictments go, that's right up with being deemed a 'Hamburglar' by Mayor McCheese. Where exactly would this court hold it's trial, the Land of Rainbows and Unicorns?


That is the funniest thing I've read this week probably....

It is a long shot, but don't the words in that document say that the president could possibly become a single ruler? I just find it interesting, and I could see it possibly happening if the public were driven by fear... I never said it would happen, just that it seems possible.