NationStates Jolt Archive

So, do ya'll believe in Unconditional love? Have you ever experienced it, if not and you still believe in unconditional love, then what did you use as a reference on how unconditional love was susspose to work? Do anyone practice conditional love? If so, why?

Me, I do believe and practice unconditional love with my family and friends. However, I have also practiced conditional love with my last ex, which is probably why we only lasted for 3 months. (She was annoying, hush)

So for those who believe and practice unconditional/conditional love, how has it affected your relationship with family, friends, and significant other?

Yes, case in point, Nazi Germany.

Yes, case in point, Nazi Germany.

Ok um...what? :confused:

i guess i dont know what you mean but unconditional love. if you "practiced" it with your girlfriend then dumped her for being annoying... well that isnt covered by any understanding that i have of unconditional love.

i guess i dont know what you mean but unconditional love. if you "practiced" it with your girlfriend then dumped her for being annoying... well that isnt covered by any understanding that i have of unconditional love.

No I practiced Conditional love with her.

For me, unconditional love means to accept and love someone, despite their flaws.

No I practiced Conditional love with her.

For me, unconditional love means to accept and love someone, despite their flaws.

except the flaw of being annoying?

except the flaw of being annoying?

He said he was practicing CONDITIONAL love with his ex.

I'd like to believe that my family and friends can and do love me unconditionally, but there has always been a shadow of doubt- I can't help but wonder sometimes exactly how far (or what I would have to do) to make them stop loving me.

On that note, I would also like to be able to say that I'd love my family and friends no matter what, but I'm not sure that I honestly could.

I try not to focus on it so much.

Unconditional love is loving without judging or expecting tit-for-tat, "you do this and I do that."

I've always loved unconditionally, and trusted that people love me for my flaws as well as my virtues, and aren't looking to 'save' or 'change' me.

NOT loving unconditionally seems to me to be "ownership" or an attempt thereat.

I suspect that all love is conditional, but sometimes the conditions are extreme and rare.

For example, my love for my children is virtually unconditional, but I suppose if they chop off my limbs with a machete and make me watch as they burn whole cities to the ground, I could possibly be coaxed into revoking that love.

But I'd still feel a bit of warped paternal pride that they had accomplished so much. :p

Of course I believe in unconditional love. I have a dog.

There is no such thing as unconditional love for the same reason there is no such thing as a selfless act. Hear me out.

Every time anyone does anything, they are doing it for themselves. The gain might be monetary, or the esteem of others, or some tangible benefit.

In some cases, the gain is simply the feeling of satisfaction, righteousness, or other completely internalized feeling which satisfies a need within the individual performing the act. It could even be an act of completely instinctual survival of their genes that prompts the action.

However, every action performed meets a need or provides desired feedback to the person who does it. Thus, unconditional love does not exist.

Of course I believe in unconditional love. I have a dog.

Yup, they're best at loving us at our very best, our very worst, and everything in between.:)

There is no such thing as unconditional love for the same reason there is no such thing as a selfless act. Hear me out.

Every time anyone does anything, they are doing it for themselves. The gain might be monetary, or the esteem of others, or some tangible benefit.

In some cases, the gain is simply the feeling of satisfaction, righteousness, or other completely internalized feeling which satisfies a need within the individual performing the act. It could even be an act of completely instinctual survival of their genes that prompts the action.

However, every action performed meets a need or provides desired feedback to the person who does it. Thus, unconditional love does not exist.

How cynical, sad, and dreary a view. :(

There is no such thing as unconditional love for the same reason there is no such thing as a selfless act. Hear me out.

Every time anyone does anything, they are doing it for themselves. The gain might be monetary, or the esteem of others, or some tangible benefit.

In some cases, the gain is simply the feeling of satisfaction, righteousness, or other completely internalized feeling which satisfies a need within the individual performing the act. It could even be an act of completely instinctual survival of their genes that prompts the action.

However, every action performed meets a need or provides desired feedback to the person who does it. Thus, unconditional love does not exist.

I'm sure we've all read Kant.

Of course I believe in unconditional love. I have a dog.

you can treat a dog so badly that he will attack you.

even his love is conditional on a minimal level of good treatment by you.

if what a dog feels can be considered love.

He said he was practicing CONDITIONAL love with his ex.
oh.

my bad

I practice unconditional love (agape) as much as I can. Point in case, I would die for anyone of you right now, despite how much you might not like me, or might not contribute to theis world. Why? Because I love you.

Ok um...what? :confused:
"Does unconditional love exist?"
"Yes, see Nazi Germany"

There we go.

I practice unconditional love (agape) as much as I can. Point in case, I would die for anyone of you right now, despite how much you might not like me, or might not contribute to theis world. Why? Because I love you.
i would not do the same for you.

I practice unconditional love (agape) as much as I can. Point in case, I would die for anyone of you right now, despite how much you might not like me, or might not contribute to theis world. Why? Because I love you.
Cheers, but I would personally say that as someone I don't really know, you're someone I don't really owe.

Would I die for family? Probably. For randoms? Less likely.

you can treat a dog so badly that he will attack you.

even his love is conditional on a minimal level of good treatment by you.

if what a dog feels can be considered love.

Well, it depends somewhat on the dog. My puppy was starved, abused, and abandoned before I adopted her, and she was still the most ridiculously sweet and trusting creature ever. I honestly don't know if it would be possible for me to provoke her into attacking me. (And I do think what a dog feels can certainly be considered love - it's a simpler sort of love than what humans experience, but it's still love.)

To give a more serious and human-related answer, though, I do think all real love is definitionally unconditional, but that doesn't mean that all relationships are unconditional. For example, I still love my Evil Ex, who treated me beyond abominably. I still hope that someday he finds peace and happiness. I never ever ever want to see him again, but I still care and worry about him.

Unconditional love is not humanly possible. I love my wife with all of my heart, but I love her because of who she is, and who we are together. If I were to love my wife unconditionally, then, if she were to turn into one of my ex's in two years, I would be forced to continue loving her, because the condition of who she is as a person has no effect on my love for her. This isn't the case. Now as far as the Christian Marriage that her and I are in, I understand I must love her beyond initial feelings, and passions. Love is small part emotion, large part dedication, and effort. She does things that I do not like, and I choose to continue loving her, as she does for me when I do things she doesn't like, but it's not unconditional, both of us maintain our effort with love, and both of us recognize that it is who each of us are, and who we are together that helps to create our love.

Also as far as "I love my family unconditionally" I maintain that such a thing isn't really possible. You love them on the condition that they are your family, what if something changes? What if you find out you were adopted. Unconditional love is not humanly possible (feel free to disagree, but you won't dissuade me).

Unconditional love comes from one source: Christ. He loves us all, not because of who we are, or how much money we make, or even our genetic composition in relation to other humans (family, basically), He loves us enduringly, and abidingly when we do things He doesn't like, He loves us always, and without fail, and nothing can stop, or break that love. That's unconditional love, and it transcends humanity entirely.

I suspect that all love is conditional, but sometimes the conditions are extreme and rare.

For example, my love for my children is virtually unconditional, but I suppose if they chop off my limbs with a machete and make me watch as they burn whole cities to the ground, I could possibly be coaxed into revoking that love.

But I'd still feel a bit of warped paternal pride that they had accomplished so much. :p

Very well (if grotesquely) put.

I practice unconditional love (agape) as much as I can. Point in case, I would die for anyone of you right now, despite how much you might not like me, or might not contribute to theis world. Why? Because I love you.

I love you too man! *Runs into embracing arms of Colovian Highlands*

Sorry, not to poke fun, it seemed the most appropriate reaction. Your willingness to sacrifice is well-taken.

"Does unconditional love exist?"
"Yes, see Nazi Germany"

There we go.

Yeah, I don't know what the confusion was about... I got it...
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...
...
Ok, I didn't at all, lol.

To give a more serious and human-related answer, though, I do think all real love is definitionally unconditional, but that doesn't mean that all relationships are unconditional. For example, I still love my Evil Ex, who treated me beyond abominably. I still hope that someday he finds peace and happiness. I never ever ever want to see him again, but I still care and worry about him.

thats why i think its important to define what unconditional love IS.

you love your ex. you might love him for the rest of your life. that doesnt mean that you will never love another and it certainly doesnt mean that you will put up with him messing with your life.

does that count as unconditional love?

thats why i think its important to define what unconditional love IS.

you love your ex. you might love him for the rest of your life. that doesnt mean that you will never love another and it certainly doesnt mean that you will put up with him messing with your life.

does that count as unconditional love?

IMO, no. It is, to me, something like a lingering fondness. Additionally, how long have you two (poli) been not together? Unless it's been at east ten years, and your feelings haven't diminished, I'll at least accept it's not lovesickeness, but when my ex-fiancee left me, I promised her I'd wait forever... it's a promise that was broken like eight months later, after I started to get over the complete emotional demolition she seemed so willing to enact.

IMO, no. It is, to me, something like a lingering fondness. Additionally, how long have you two (poli) been not together? Unless it's been at east ten years, and your feelings haven't diminished, I'll at least accept it's not lovesickeness, but when my ex-fiancee left me, I promised her I'd wait forever... it's a promise that was broken like eight months later, after I started to get over the complete emotional demolition she seemed so willing to enact.
i see you say above that unconditional love is not possible...

does that mean you define it as staying with and supporting the beloved no matter what their behavior might be?

thats why i think its important to define what unconditional love IS.

you love your ex. you might love him for the rest of your life. that doesnt mean that you will never love another and it certainly doesnt mean that you will put up with him messing with your life.

does that count as unconditional love?

To me, yes, but I suppose that could be a matter of definitions. I mean, if tomorrow he was on the news for having raped and murdered fifteen babies, I would be pretty horrified and even more glad he was out of my life - but I'd still love him and wish that he would find peace and happiness someday, just as I do now. If he magically reformed completely and spent the next twenty years begging my forgiveness for his abusive treatment, I might eventually be convinced to take him back - and I would still love him and wish that he would find peace and happiness someday, just as I do now. What role he has in my life is conditional upon his behavior; the fact that I care deeply about him is not.

(Oh, and DT, it's been almost four years since last I saw him, and for at least the past three of those years, I've been genuinely glad he was out of my life.)

i see you say above that unconditional love is not possible...

does that mean you define it as staying with and supporting the beloved no matter what their behavior might be?

Yes, that is how I feel.

I take heavily Christ's command to love my neighbor as I love myself. And I do as much as I can to love my fellow humans. But this universal love is conditional on Christ's command, not my natural tendencies (which, actually would lean probably dangerously the other way... no, I'm not racist or anything).

Poli, I would consider your case then definately conditional. I hope the best for my ex's as well, it's called not being a jerk. I had loved them conditionally because I would not take them back, so the specific romantic love I had for them, the same you had for your ex, is gone, the conditions for it's termination have been met. You may still care about him, and his well-being, but that is not unconditional love the way you felt when you were together, if it was, you would take him back, even after the aforementioned rape/murder, after all, it would be unconditional, no matter what he could do, you would still maintain that love, and that willingness for a relationship. What has happened is that you've transitioned between romantic love, and a more generic well-wishing, which can easily be considered a form of love, but it is not the same love that you had for him earlier... that love is gone, which is why you're glad he's out of your life.

Poli, I would consider your case then definately conditional. I hope the best for my ex's as well, it's called not being a jerk. I had loved them conditionally because I would not take them back, so the specific romantic love I had for them, the same you had for your ex, is gone, the conditions for it's termination have been met. You may still care about him, and his well-being, but that is not unconditional love the way you felt when you were together, if it was, you would take him back, even after the aforementioned rape/murder, after all, it would be unconditional, no matter what he could do, you would still maintain that love, and that willingness for a relationship. What has happened is that you've transitioned between romantic love, and a more generic well-wishing, which can easily be considered a form of love, but it is not the same love that you had for him earlier... that love is gone, which is why you're glad he's out of your life.

I think we have very different definitions of "love," and we may just have to agree to disagree here. I don't think love implies willingness to do absolutely anything one's loved ones want. I would absolutely do a great many things for my Evil Ex still - I just won't have him in my life, because it would do him no good and me a lot of harm, and I don't feel any need to express my love through pointless self-destruction.

Unconditional love seems to me far too perfect for humans to achieve.

And in many ways it does not even seem like a good thing: some people will never deserve unconditional love because of the way they treat others, they may well take advantage of it as well.

Love can't be unconditional or conditional, because love does not exist.

I think we have very different definitions of "love," and we may just have to agree to disagree here. I don't think love implies willingness to do absolutely anything one's loved ones want. I would absolutely do a great many things for my Evil Ex still - I just won't have him in my life, because it would do him no good and me a lot of harm, and I don't feel any need to express my love through pointless self-destruction.

Well, I jsut don't think that politeness, and general wellwishing should be considered part of the same 'love' that, say, I share for my wife. So there is a fundemental difference in our outlooks. Whereas you define love in very general terms, I am fairly more specific. In that spirit, I practice unconditional love by being nice to friends, or even polite to people I don't like, but the love that I engage in, is conditional.

I will agree to disagree, because it's clear that we aren't on the same plane of perspective (and because I'm right, of course... :p jk).

Love can't be unconditional or conditional, because love does not exist.

Well, I'm glad you can make a controversial post, and then not explain it at all... way to fail completely.

Unconditional love seems to me far too perfect for humans to achieve.

This is pretty much how I feel.

And in many ways it does not even seem like a good thing: some people will never deserve unconditional love because of the way they treat others, they may well take advantage of it as well.

This isn't as much how I feel. Though human love should not get in the way of justice.

I do, of course, believe in Christ's unconditional love, so we are starting from two different angles of approach.

There is no such thing as "conditional love".

Conditional love is essentially stating "I will love you if you do x". That isn't love. That is want, need, desire, lust, like...dozens of other adjectives.

If you love someone, there aren't strings attached. "I'll love you if you change this characteristic" isn't loving them. Someone said unconditional love is loving someone despite their flaws. This is incorrect. Love is loving someone because of their flaws and quirks. I don't love my mother despite the fact that she can be overprotective. I love her because of that. Sure it irritates me some times, but that is part of the woman that I love.

I don't love my best friend despite the fact that he can be a huge drunken asshole to me. I love him because of it. Because that is part of the person who is my best friend.

Conditional "love" would say the opposite. If I only love a person when X characteristic isn't coming forward or when they do action Y for me, then I don't love them.

There is no such thing as "conditional love".

Conditional love is essentially stating "I will love you if you do x". That isn't love. That is want, need, desire, lust, like...dozens of other adjectives.

If you love someone, there aren't strings attached. "I'll love you if you change this characteristic" isn't loving them. Someone said unconditional love is loving someone despite their flaws. This is incorrect. Love is loving someone because of their flaws and quirks. I don't love my mother despite the fact that she can be overprotective. I love her because of that. Sure it irritates me some times, but that is part of the woman that I love.

I don't love my best friend despite the fact that he can be a huge drunken asshole to me. I love him because of it. Because that is part of the person who is my best friend.

Conditional "love" would say the opposite. If I only love a person when X characteristic isn't coming forward or when they do action Y for me, then I don't love them.

But you love your friend because of who, and what he is. For example, if he was different than he was when yout wo met, and you two hated each other, you would eb obligated to love him as much as you do now because it would be unconditional... it wouldn't be conditional on who he is as a person... ergo, you must love every single person as much as anyone else has ever loved anyone ever.

Now, because I doubt the veracity of that last statement, and surely you do to, you must see that love has to have conditions, I love my wife, there are things about her that are not perfect, my love is not conditional in that regard, I'm not perfect either, but I wouldn't love her is she was someone completely different than she is now (maybe), and thats what makes my love conditional... it's sad, I don't like saying things like "Yeah, so my love for my wife is conditional." but it's true, I as a human have no ability to truly love unconditionally.

I understand what your saying, but I am speaking from a broader perspective, not "This person has a fault so I won't love them"

There is no such thing as "conditional love".

Conditional love is essentially stating "I will love you if you do x". That isn't love. That is want, need, desire, lust, like...dozens of other adjectives.

If you love someone, there aren't strings attached. "I'll love you if you change this characteristic" isn't loving them. Someone said unconditional love is loving someone despite their flaws. This is incorrect. Love is loving someone because of their flaws and quirks. I don't love my mother despite the fact that she can be overprotective. I love her because of that. Sure it irritates me some times, but that is part of the woman that I love.

I don't love my best friend despite the fact that he can be a huge drunken asshole to me. I love him because of it. Because that is part of the person who is my best friend.

Conditional "love" would say the opposite. If I only love a person when X characteristic isn't coming forward or when they do action Y for me, then I don't love them.

This is also fair to say in most cases, but shouldn't continue for, say, abusive partners. At one point, their treatment will have passed a boundary and the unconditional love will have stopped. It is still conditional to a bare minimum of respect and decent treatment of other people.

Me, I do believe and practice unconditional love…

Practice unconditional love? What is this, some kind of sexual deviance?

I don't know, if I love my boyfriend despite the fact that he snores that is in a way unconditional love as I love him despite his flaws. But what if he then decides to go and snore beside another woman and I dump him? I love him unconditionally because I accept all his flaws and love him still but then it is not unconditional love because I dumped him for cheating. It's complicated, I know that cheating is an action and not a character flaw but the tendency to be unfaithful is a character trait that causes the action.


I know my parents love me unconditionally but I don't know if I could love someone who is not a child of mine unconditionally.

Well, I jsut don't think that politeness, and general wellwishing should be considered part of the same 'love' that, say, I share for my wife. So there is a fundemental difference in our outlooks. Whereas you define love in very general terms, I am fairly more specific. In that spirit, I practice unconditional love by being nice to friends, or even polite to people I don't like, but the love that I engage in, is conditional.

I will agree to disagree, because it's clear that we aren't on the same plane of perspective (and because I'm right, of course... :p jk).

I don't understand where you're getting "politeness" from anything that I said. I would not be "polite" to my Evil Ex if I saw him today; if I said anything to him at all, it would probably be very impolite indeed. I would willingly chop off my right arm with a rusty hacksaw if it would somehow help him find real happiness.

Your definition of love as something that intrinsically ends with the end of a romantic relationship also troubles me, because the logical implication ends up being "if you REALLY love someone, you have to stay with them no matter what they do, and no matter how much better your life might be elsewhere," and that is a dangerous philosophy to say the least.

To me all love is conditional. I don't think unconditional love is healthy or attainable for me. There are people who are given much more slack than others though. My mother got away with a lot more shit than prior boyfriends or friends did, my kids will get away with a lot more shit than just about anyone else. My husband knows what he can get away with and it's very clear to him where my line is, so he doesn't cross it.

I have basically one person in my life that I love unconditionally, and will be there for her no matter what. Unconditional love is a real thing, it's just how people view it that makes it otherwise.

To me all love is conditional. I don't think unconditional love is healthy or attainable for me. There are people who are given much more slack than others though. My mother got away with a lot more shit than prior boyfriends or friends did, my kids will get away with a lot more shit than just about anyone else. My husband knows what he can get away with and it's very clear to him where my line is, so he doesn't cross it.
i agree. unconditional love is just a nicer way of saying that i let others treat me badly.

No I practiced Conditional love with her.

For me, unconditional love means to accept and love someone, despite their flaws.

No, unconditional love is loving someone for their flaws, not in spite of them.

Even "unconditional" love has conditions, unless the giver is a dog. I really don't think I want a human loving me the way a dog would. It would be nice to know that the person has some standards.

For example, I love my children. Even when they treat me in ways I find objectionable, I still love them. I think, though, that if one of my children were to do something I considered outside the pale of human behavior, say molesting children or being a serial rapist/killer, my love for that child would be seriously compromised. You see, I do have some conditions. Those conditions don't have to do with respecting me or doing the kind of work I think they should do, they have to do with what I consider basic morality. Pilfer a little from petty cash - I don't like it but it won't affect my love for you, kill several people in cold blood, you're no longer my child.

Well, I'm glad you can make a controversial post, and then not explain it at all... way to fail completely.

I'm glad you can make a dumb-ass comment that has nothing to do with what I said just so you can label me as 'fail.' That's uber-win, that is, and if anyone has any doubts on that I'm sure we can just ask you!

kill several people in cold blood, you're no longer my child.

What if "in cold blood" was self-defense, and they felt no remorse about defending themselves?

What if "in cold blood" was self-defense, and they felt no remorse about defending themselves?

Let me change that to "becomes an IRS auditor."

Actually I suppose I should be more specific and alter it to read "innocent, inoffensive people who have done and are doing nothing to harm anyone."

Sufficient?

Let me change that to "becomes an IRS auditor."

Becomes "plaintiffs' lawyer"
Becomes "divorce lawyer"
Becomes investment banker

dammit, I'll be up all night with the list...

Let me change that to "becomes an IRS auditor."

Actually I suppose I should be more specific and alter it to read "innocent, inoffensive people who have done and are doing nothing to harm anyone."

Sufficient?

Becomes "plaintiffs' lawyer"
Becomes "divorce lawyer"
Becomes investment banker

dammit, I'll be up all night with the list...

OHMYGOD is hotwife your son??

OHMYGOD is hotwife your son??

No, but there seems to be another genocidal maniac in the Netherlands.

No, but there seems to be another genocidal maniac in the Netherlands.
non sequitur alert!

non sequitur alert!

Only if you're not reading the other threads (go see the abortion thread).

Love is as different to each person as each person is different from others. Talking about it rather than experiencing it seems like a bit of a fatuous waste of time. Then again, this is the Internet.

I'm going to go with Vonnegut (Slapstick, 1976):

"I wish that people who are conventionally supposed to love each other would say to each other, when they fight, "Please — a little less love, and a little more common decency."

OHMYGOD is hotwife your son??

Good God, I hope not.