NationStates Jolt Archive

Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church had himself a rancid little video gloat about the death of George Carlin. You can watch a youtube of it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd0dtyr3ifw

However, if you'd rather not soil yourself I understand. The relevant point is at the end when he announces, "We will picket George Carlin's Funeral".

The next link here is to an image posted on George Carlin's website clarifying his last wishes:

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/carlin_memletter.jpg

Finally, a CNN article:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/07/28/carlin.album.ap/index.html

So, as you can see, George Carlin wins even in death, because there was no funeral to picket! BWAA HAHAHAHAHA!!!! :D

Oh, and perhaps during one of their demented little protests, should they do so in New York or some other place near where George has been scattered, maybe there's a chance that a little bit of George Carlin will lodge itself in Fred Phelps' eye. Hope springs eternal. :)

This is even better than seeing Carlin play a cardinal for a movie.

Oh, and perhaps during one of their demented little protests, should they do so in New York or some other place near where George has been scattered, maybe there's a chance that a little bit of George Carlin will lodge itself in Fred Phelps' eye. Hope springs eternal. :)

Fred Phelps possessed by George Carlin. Oh, that would be a laugh riot.

I couldn't get through too much of the video but I must say, I did like their little logo sequence at the start, almost comedically cute until you start listening to the mad old man's ranting and raving.

I couldn't quite catch the jingle, is it - Go-od is for victory...I might get it as my ringtone.

I couldn't get through too much of the video but I must say, I did like their little logo sequence at the start, almost comedically cute until you start listening to the mad old man's ranting and raving.

I couldn't quite catch the jingle, is it - Go-od is for victory...I might get it as my ringtone.

I'm just waiting to see how long it takes for Should Have Dropped Dead Fred to celebrate the church shooting.

Can't they protest at his home or something, though? o_O

And why won't Phelps die slowly and painfully?

Let me be clear: I want him to die slowly and painfully.

Would have been better if the area where the ashes would be spread were announced beforehand, preferably on a windy day, with the protesters standing downwind. Phelps with a mouthful of George Carlin dust. I can't think of any better way to getting the last laugh.

"God hates-" *poof* "ohmigod! I've got George Carlin in my mouth!"

Would have been better if the area where the ashes would be spread were announced beforehand, preferably on a windy day, with the protesters standing downwind. Phelps with a mouthful of George Carlin dust. I can't think of any better way to getting the last laugh.

"God hates-" *poof* "ohmigod! I've got George Carlin in my mouth!"

To be sure, I don't think that HE would like it...

Excellent!

The man was a fantastic human bean; I can only applaud his efforts.

To be sure, I don't think that HE would like it...
He's dead and, I imagine, wouldn't give two shits where some inanimate dust ends up.

His family on the other hand...

Fred Phelps tempts me to wish that this were a slightly less tolerate nation.

Not in a way Phelps would appreciate, though.

Phelps or George? George might appreciate the irony.

Watching the Phelps video made me want to throw up a little in my mouth.

Reading the comments below almost did make me.

This guy is exactly the sort of fool that makes religion, and Christianity look bad. His judgmental holier than thou attitude is absolutely contrary to the word of the very God he claims to honor.

Jesus Christ showed compassion, mercy and love for those who had sinned. He never spoke with hate, never used vitriol in talking about sinners. He was all about reaching out with forgiveness.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

If Phelps thinks he's never sinned, he doesn't know the Bible as well as he claims to.

He's driving people AWAY from Christianity, not drawing them to it. Oh, when he someday stands before God to account for his life he will have much to answer for.

Phelps or George? George might appreciate the irony.

George. Phelps is a non-human thing whose needs are below my concerns.

I think George might appreciate the irony though, giving Phelps one last thing to choke apoplectic about from beyond the grave.

Phelps is a non-human thing whose needs are below my concerns.
This hatred and dehumanisation is very much akin to Phelps' own statements.

EDIT: Hey! I spot Pure Metal on youtube!

This hatred and dehumanisation is very much akin to Phelps' own statements

I can't say I'd help Fred if he were trapped in a burning car wreck, that's for sure.

This hatred and dehumanisation is very much akin to Phelps' own statements.

Phelps hates people for arbitrary reasons. I hate Phelps because he's a disgusting bigoted asshole. Not the same.

Phelps hates people for arbitrary reasons. I hate Phelps because he's a disgusting bigoted asshole. Not the same.

Hate is still Hate, no matter how you slice it.

Hate is still Hate, no matter how you slice it.

Yes, it is.

The question is, is it wrong however you slice it? I say not. It can be part of your own self-respect to hate somebody who loathes and dehumanizes you without reason, who wants to hurt you, to oppress you, to deny you freedom. And it can express your respect for others to hate somebody who does so to other people.

Phelps hates people for arbitrary reasons. I hate Phelps because he's a disgusting bigoted asshole. Not the same.
But to call him 'below-human'?

To condemn him utterly?

Fred Phelps doesn't deserve our hate. I certainly don't intend for my thread to continue in such a vein. I for one would pull Fred Phelps from burning car wreckage. I would call for paramedics and perform CPR. I would subsequently visit him in the hospital and tell him that God obviously sent me to save his life and to introduce him to the odd sensation of pied face. I would then proceed to introduce him to that sensation.

He doesn't deserve our hate, merely our mockery. *nod*

Fred Phelps doesn't deserve our hate. I certainly don't intend for my thread to continue in such a vein. I for one would pull Fred Phelps from burning car wreckage. I would call for paramedics and perform CPR. I would subsequently visit him in the hospital and tell him that God obviously sent me to save his life and to introduce him to the odd sensation of pied face. I would then proceed to introduce him to that sensation.

He doesn't deserve our hate, merely our mockery. *nod*
I heartily agree, though I think you'd be better at pieing him in the face than I.

I've a tendency to eat pie, not throw it.

This hatred and dehumanisation is very much akin to Phelps' own statements.

Nope. They're much worse. Phelps hates; that's a given. But he hates because he minds. My view of Phelps is as someone I don't have the obligation to dignify with feelings. He's a virus. It's beyond dehumanization, it's not giving him the dequorum of hatred - or any feeling. He is a non-being.

But to call him 'below-human'?

To condemn him utterly?

Just to correct you, I call him "below-being".

Nope. They're much worse. Phelps hates; that's a given. But he hates because he minds. My view of Phelps is as someone I don't have the obligation to dignify with feelings. He's a virus. It's beyond dehumanization, it's not giving him the dequorum of hatred - or any feeling. He is a non-being.
"I'd like to share a revelation I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to another area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You are a plague, and we are the cure."-Agent Smith

Just to correct you, I call him "below-being".
You also called him a:

non-human thing whose needs are below my concerns.

Strange, as he is quite distinctly human; this is, for me, one of the most abhorrent things about him.

But to call him 'below-human'?

That I wouldn't do, because it's just false, descriptively and morally.

But I find that truth unfortunate.

You also called him a:



Strange, as he is quite distinctly human; this is, for me, one of the most abhorrent things about him.

Biologically, yes. In other senses, debatable.

Biologically, yes. In other senses, debatable.
In what senses?

Do you question that humans can use abhorrent language, or hold terrible views?

I heartily agree, though I think you'd be better at pieing him in the face than I.

I've a tendency to eat pie, not throw it.

Depends on the pie. I actually keep a stock of frozen pies in an ice chest in the basement that were frozen on their expiration date. I get em really cheap from the bakery that way and defrost them as needed. Well, it seemed like the only cost-effective way to produce a dozen pies if I want to without being accused of wasting food. *nod*

In what senses?

Do you question that humans can use abhorrent language, or hold terrible views?

I don't question that members of the human species can. I question that true humans do.

I don't question that members of the human species can. I question that true humans do.

As opposed to those pesky false humans?

I don't question that members of the human species can. I question that true humans do.

/No true Scotsman argument.

As opposed to those pesky false humans?

Yuppers.

As opposed to those pesky false humans?

Those damned Fake McCoys...

http://www.john-wardley.demon.co.uk/images/mccoys.jpg

hehehehe...

He adds that he discovered a popular pastime could be had gathering family members around and pretending to have Alzheimer's.

George Carlin, you will be missed. :(

I don't question that members of the human species can. I question that true humans do.
And what on earth are 'false humans'?

And what on earth are 'false humans'?

...Cylons?

Oh, and perhaps during one of their demented little protests, should they do so in New York or some other place near where George has been scattered, maybe there's a chance that a little bit of George Carlin will lodge itself in Fred Phelps' eye. Hope springs eternal. :)

reporter standing by Phelps as some of Carlin's ashes are being dispersed.
"God punished George Carlin for his support of gays, thus the judgme... *gag*... *cough*... I'll be ok... just a bit of dust got into my throat. It's bad enough that Gays are here, but the fact that his ashes are being spre... ow... got something in my eye..."

HEADLINES THE NEXT DAY!
Teary Eyed Phelps admits to having Carlin in his mouth.

This hatred and dehumanisation is very much akin to Phelps' own statements.

EDIT: Hey! I spot Pure Metal on youtube!

Why are you trying to defend this monster? Phelps is a bigoted fool who deserves a good punch to the face.

Why are you trying to defend this monster?
You've a funny conception of 'defence'.

I abhor Phelps views, but he is still very much a human, and if he was in a life-threatening situation which I could feasibly alleviate, I'd hope to help him.

Phelps is a bigoted fool who deserves a good punch to the face.
He is certainly a bigoted fool, but I don't see what good punching a 78 year-old man in the face would do.


...Cylons?
We'll have to wait until the conclusion of the series to find out...

Why are you trying to defend this monster? Phelps is a bigoted fool who deserves a good punch to the face.

He's not defending Phelps... I think.

/No true Scotsman argument.

Okay, fine, you win. Can I still hope Phelps gets used as a lab rat for a sadistic doctor?

reporter standing by Phelps as some of Carlin's ashes are being dispersed.
"God punished George Carlin for his support of gays, thus the judgme... *gag*... *cough*... I'll be ok... just a bit of dust got into my throat. It's bad enough that Gays are here, but the fact that his ashes are being spre... ow... got something in my eye..."

HEADLINES THE NEXT DAY!
Teary Eyed Phelps admits to having Carlin in his mouth.

Yay! :D

Fred: "George Carlin left a bad taste in my mouth." :eek: "Wait! That's not what I meant!!!"

You've a funny conception of 'defence'.

I abhor Phelps views, but he is still very much a human, and if he was in a life-threatening situation which I could feasibly alleviate, I'd hope to help him.
Why would you seek to continue the lifespan of this terrible person?


He is certainly a bigoted fool, but I don't see what good punching a 78 year-old man in the face would do.

if you're luckily, it'd end his life and destroy the nest of hate he's created.

Why would you seek to continue the lifespan of this terrible person?
Yes, at least, I wouldn't attempt to shorten it.

I don't believe those who hold terrible views should be put to death.

if you're luckily, it'd end his life and destroy the nest of hate he's created.
So where does the killing stop? Should we murder Phelps' wife and children? Every member of the Westboro Baptist Church? Every Christian Conservative? Anybody who doesn't share our views?

What would the violence achieve?

So where does the killing stop? Should we murder Phelps' wife and children? Every member of the Westboro Baptist Church? Every Christian Conservative? Anybody who doesn't share our views?

What would the violence achieve?
The absence of Phelps, his family, his church....

The absence of Phelps, his family, his church....

He offered that if I were to have sex with him - as the active partner.

I'm not gay though...

The absence of Phelps, his family, his church....
Nice.

So you condemn a man who thinks people should die for the lifestyles they lead, and propose he, and the men, women and children of his church should die for the lifestyles they lead?

How pathetic.

So you condemn a man who thinks people should die for the lifestyles they lead, and propose he, and the men, women and children of his church should die for the lifestyles they lead?

1. My sexuality is not a "lifestyle I lead".
2. I am not condemning them for "lifestyles they lead", either.
3. I am not "proposing" that those people should die: YOU proposed the hypothetical, and asked if there would be any good achieved. Their absence, in and of itself, would in fact be an improvement to the world. I would, however, disapprove of the violence necessary to achieve that.

1. My sexuality is not a "lifestyle I lead".
2. I am not condemning them for "lifestyles they lead", either.
3. I am not "proposing" that those people should die: YOU proposed the hypothetical, and asked if there would be any good achieved. Their absence, in and of itself, would in fact be an improvement to the world. I would, however, disapprove of the violence necessary to achieve that.

I'm debating whether or not to offer myself as a sacrificial lamb to get Phelps to stop - by having sex with him.

Chumblywumbly, you've been right here from the start, as you know.

But it's not like I'm about to kill Phelps. And I'm not likely to even have the opportunity to save him.

So let me fantasize and hate in peace.

1. My sexuality is not a "lifestyle I lead".
So you don't live you life in a certain style?

I have a lifestyle I lead; everybody does.

I am not condemning them for "lifestyles they lead", either.
So you don't condemn the style of life they lead?

I would, however, disapprove of the violence necessary to achieve that.
Good.

So you don't live you life in a certain style?
I lead the lifestyle of a bookish professor who likes to travel when he can afford it. That is not what they are shrieking at me about, however.
So you don't condemn the style of life they lead?
From what I have seen of them in documentaries, they lead the lifestyle of generic suburbanites. It is not the same as my lifestyle, but has nothing to do with why I condemn them.

Why Fred Phelps is going to hell.

7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

7:2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

Dont pretend to be god. He doesnt like it.

7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Then why judge him thus:

Why Fred Phelps is going to hell.

I don't think Phelps deserves to die - but he deserves our disdain and mockery. I believe LG has the right solution.

Gee, what a surprise? LG has the answer. He always does.

Fred Phelps possessed by George Carlin. Oh, that would be a laugh riot.

Too...many...possible...scenarios...sense of humor...overloaded! *TZORTCH!*

Fred Phelps doesn't deserve our hate. I certainly don't intend for my thread to continue in such a vein. I for one would pull Fred Phelps from burning car wreckage. I would call for paramedics and perform CPR. I would subsequently visit him in the hospital and tell him that God obviously sent me to save his life and to introduce him to the odd sensation of pied face. I would then proceed to introduce him to that sensation.

He doesn't deserve our hate, merely our mockery. *nod*

Quite simply, you are the wisest person I have ever met, online or in person. I sincerely hope I get to meet you someday, just to shake your hand and say "thank you" in person. I will, of course, bring pie.

As for my own far-less-wise interpretation...

Carlin is more than my favorite comedian. He's my hero. To have the bravery to say out loud what many of us think, and then to have the chutzpah to make a successful career out of it, well, that's A) America, and B) inspiring, to me. All heroes are imperfect (http://www.jillsobule.com/heroes.html). Carlin was no exception. But for every miss, there were so many dead-solid bull's-eyes that we should all hope to possess such accuracy.

Now, for a faux-prophet, hypocritical, Biblical cherry-picker like Phelps to even mention Carlin's name sets my teeth on edge. To know that he might try to show his face in NYC to protest any sort of gathering fills me with unfettered rage.

However, I am on record as being dead set against those who would dance on the graves of the unpopular. Admittedly, there's a shred of self-interest there, for I'm not what anyone would call popular. I have posted here in protest of the grave-dancing done against Strom Thurmond, Jerry Falwell, and more recently, Jesse Helms. I do this because I learned something from some of the icons of passive resistance and civil rights movements of the last 50 years or so. You might win battles with violence or vitriol, but never the war. You stain the cause of peace when you try to serve it with violence. You stain the cause of civility when you are uncivil.

An example of what I mean comes from the 1999 WTO riots in my home city of Seattle. I was watching the coverage at a friend's house the next night on the 11pm news. My friend told me how his (then) five-year-old daughter, after catching the same footage at 5pm that day had asked her father why those people were so angry. He did his best to explain to a young mind that the protesters didn't like what the people in the big meeting were doing and wanted them to stop. His daughter watched for a while and then asked her father, "if they want something so bad, how come nobody's saying 'please'?"

Now I know that this story seems kinda Family Circus cutesy, but it seems to me that if a child can understand that violence doesn't solve anything, even if you hate what's going on, what the hell's wrong with most adults? Violence is fueled by hate and fear (thank you Yoda), so it seems to me that hating Fred Phelps is a wasted effort for many reasons. He doesn't care if you hate him, he believes he's doing God's true work, and folks like that are by nature impervious to critical opinion. Hating him only succeeds in wasting your energy.

Not only that, but the marketplace of ideas that allows Phelps to spew his screeds with impunity is one of the remaining things that makes the US great. That marketplace has done its job -- Phelps is a less-than-minor player and ever will be precisely because he's able to say what he really thinks in public. Allowing him to hang himself through demonstration of his batshittery is the best defense reason and compassion have against him.

THAT SAID, I'm not condemning those who wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire. We're all at different stages in our respective journeys in life. Phelps' moral sense hasn't left pre-adolescence and that black-and-white world he loves too much to ever relinquish. Five years ago when Phelps came to little Ellensburg, WA (pop. 12k) to picket the Central Washington University (where I was in grad school) drama department's production of The Laramie Project, I had to constantly remind myself that walking down there and shouting back is tantamount to giving the man the attention he needs to be even tangentially viable. No matter how much I used his Biblical nearsightedness (and the Bible's own words) to contradict him, his mind is far too rusted to ever be changed. I'm glad he was there when I was in grad school. As an undergrad, I'd have probably tried to set his ass on fire (thus minting a martyr). So we grow.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that arguing about whether or not it's okay to hate a hater is really kinda pointless. We either come to realizations about the worth of hate and how to deal with it, or we don't.

Thanks for reading.

Watching the Phelps video made me want to throw up a little in my mouth.

Reading the comments below almost did make me.

This guy is exactly the sort of fool that makes religion, and Christianity look bad. His judgmental holier than thou attitude is absolutely contrary to the word of the very God he claims to honor.

Jesus Christ showed compassion, mercy and love for those who had sinned. He never spoke with hate, never used vitriol in talking about sinners. He was all about reaching out with forgiveness.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

If Phelps thinks he's never sinned, he doesn't know the Bible as well as he claims to.

He's driving people AWAY from Christianity, not drawing them to it. Oh, when he someday stands before God to account for his life he will have much to answer for.

I've been arguing for quite a while now, that Phelps is no more of a Christian than I am, and merely 'plays one' to stir up the sort of bad reaction he stirs up, and to bring people out of the woodwork.

Yes - I'm seriously arguing that he's posturing as a lunatic-fringe Christian. He's a particularly convincing parody, and I love him for it. I kinda want him to know that, actually.

Why would you seek to continue the lifespan of this terrible person?

Because his life only has meaning when he gets attention.

if you're luckily, it'd end his life and destroy the nest of hate he's created.

Or rather, make him a martyr to his cause and insure than a generation of Phelpses will continue to picket funerals with GOD HATES [Contact the Westborough Baptist Church today to place an ad here] signs well into the 26th century.

Yes - I'm seriously arguing that he's posturing as a lunatic-fringe Christian.
That would be comforting if that were too. Unfortunately, all of them are horribly sincere.