NationStates Jolt Archive

covered everything... and that there wasn't any waiting. It appears by this account, that if you're going "private" you can get it done straight away, and if you're NHS, you're on a waiting list.

and then I read this:

The National Health Service is something we can be proud of in the UK. It was set up after the second world war to provide universal health care, free at the point of delivery, accessible to all according to need, not bank balance.

When this principle was watered down by the Thatcher government to allow the rich to jump to the front of the line, doctors quite naturally followed the money, and now it’s received wisdom that if you want to get treated quickly and cleanly you go private. In other words you take out additional health insurance as they do in America.

The last time I needed to consult a doctor I had a small wound on my temple about the size of a nail head that wouldn’t heal. I didn’t know where it had come from. I couldn’t remember injuring myself there. It was a mystery wound.

I decided the prudent thing would be to ignore it and hope it went away. But my wife had other ideas, and the next day I went to see the doctor.

She told me it was probably a blood vessel too close to the skin that needed cauterizing, and she set me up an appointment with a dermatologist – whose first name, according to his nameplate, was Dermot.

Dermot the dermatologist.

While he examined my head I felt the urge to make pointless conversation, as you do.
“Bit of a coincidence, that. You’re a dermatologist and your name is Dermot.”
“This may surprise you, but you’re not the first person to have pointed that out.”
“Can I call you Dermot?”
“You can call me what you like.”
“How about Shirley?”

He ignored this, and finished the examination.
“Well, Doc, what is it?”
“Let me put it like this, what’s your star sign?”
“Scorpio.”
“Close. Cancer.”

What?

“We can all have our little jokes, Mr Condell. Don’t worry, it won’t spread, but it is a form of skin cancer – what we call a rodent ulcer, or a basal cell carcinoma. It’s caused by excessive exposure to sun in earlier life. Have you ever spent a lot of time in the sun?”

I certainly had, back in the days when sunshine was good for you and we soaked up as much of it as we could get, little dreaming that one day it would be as dangerous as coffee, alcohol, food, water and air.

Anyway, I’ve seen all the medical dramas, so I was straight in with the pointed questions.
“So er… er… what are my options?”
“Well, you could simply leave it there to rot into your head, which might work as a conversation starter, or you could do what most people do and have it removed.”

Surgery.

Hardball.

“With a knife?”
“That’s right.”
“Couldn’t you do it with a laser, or a damp cloth or something?”
“Don’t worry, it’s nothing. Local anaesthetic. Chop chop, couple of stitches, ten minutes tops.”
“Chop chop?”
“Technical term. Do you have medical insurance?”
“Yeah, it’s called the National Health Service.”

He laughed like an executioner.
“That one always makes me chuckle. OK, I’ll add your name to the waiting list, but it’s likely to be a few months. However, if you’d care to have it done privately I could fit you in this week.”

Now we were getting down to business.

“How much?”
“Five hundred pounds.”
“Hold on. Ten minutes tops – five hundred pounds?”
“That’s for my time and the hire of the operating theatre. Anaesthetic would be extra. You’d want anaesthetic, I take it?”
“Why not? Let’s push the boat out.”
“That’ll be another thirty-five. Then you’ll have to have the stitches out, plus my initial consultation. To be honest, you’re looking at more like six-fifty all told. Also, I should warn you there will be some scarring, but I’ll do my best to make the scar fit in with the other lines on your head.”

“Thank you Dr Schweitzer, you’re a saint. Here’s my credit card.“

So a couple of days later I went in. Chop chop, couple of stitches, ten minutes tops. Ch-ching!!!

The following day a letter arrived from the NHS offering me an immediate appointment to have it done for nothing. I felt like slapping myself all around the room and then kicking myself all the way back again, but I couldn’t disturb the stitches, so I didn’t even have that pleasure.

Where'd you get silly ideas like that?

P.S. :|

Where'd you get silly ideas like that?

We're told here in the US that the NHS is the shizzle...

source?

also its like 2 in the morning we British needs our sleep or my boss will hurt me :( (in other words its a bit of a silly time to talk about the NHS)

We're told here in the US that the NHS is the shizzle...

Yes, there are waiting lists, though in the cited case the treatment couuld have been done on the NHS within days according to the article. But on the general point, people can jump the queue if they have money. Do I have moral issues with this? Of course. If its any condition that is life threatening, you should have access to immediate care no matter how rich you are. A human's life is not worth more just because they happen to have a nice big bank balance. Being poor doesn't make you any worse a person so you are equally entitled to care. All told, though, its better to have the NHS there than nothing. Because then some people wouldn't be able to have treatment at all, which I think most would agree is worse than having to wait.

Yes, there are waiting lists, and people can jump the queue if they have money.

actually they don't jump the queue because the private care queue is a whole different list and organization in itself (though I wonder if this was a private GP?)

*picks at your nits*

wow, an unsourced blog, that's certainly the nail in the coffin of the NHS..

actually they don't jump the queue because the private care queue is a whole different list and organization in itself (though I wonder if this was a private GP?)

*picks at your nits*

Oi. Leave my nits alone :p

Um, yes, you are right, but you know what I mean. Ok let me rephrase. Its unfair that you can jump into a shorter queue just because you have money. What with the whole people's lives being worth the same and being rich not being an indicator of virtue or being a good person to justify better treatment thing that I mentioned earlier. Happy now?:rolleyes:

Wait, I thought the National Health Service...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

covered everything... and that there wasn't any waiting. It appears by this account, that if you're going "private" you can get it done straight away, and if you're NHS, you're on a waiting list.

and then I read this:


Quote:
The National Health Service is something we can be proud of in the UK. It was set up after the second world war to provide universal health care, free at the point of delivery, accessible to all according to need, not bank balance.

When this principle was watered down by the Thatcher government to allow the rich to jump to the front of the line, doctors quite naturally followed the money, and now it’s received wisdom that if you want to get treated quickly and cleanly you go private. In other words you take out additional health insurance as they do in America.

The last time I needed to consult a doctor I had a small wound on my temple about the size of a nail head that wouldn’t heal. I didn’t know where it had come from. I couldn’t remember injuring myself there. It was a mystery wound.

I decided the prudent thing would be to ignore it and hope it went away. But my wife had other ideas, and the next day I went to see the doctor.

She told me it was probably a blood vessel too close to the skin that needed cauterizing, and she set me up an appointment with a dermatologist – whose first name, according to his nameplate, was Dermot.

Dermot the dermatologist.

While he examined my head I felt the urge to make pointless conversation, as you do.
“Bit of a coincidence, that. You’re a dermatologist and your name is Dermot.”
“This may surprise you, but you’re not the first person to have pointed that out.”
“Can I call you Dermot?”
“You can call me what you like.”
“How about Shirley?”

He ignored this, and finished the examination.
“Well, Doc, what is it?”
“Let me put it like this, what’s your star sign?”
“Scorpio.”
“Close. Cancer.”

What?

“We can all have our little jokes, Mr Condell. Don’t worry, it won’t spread, but it is a form of skin cancer – what we call a rodent ulcer, or a basal cell carcinoma. It’s caused by excessive exposure to sun in earlier life. Have you ever spent a lot of time in the sun?”

I certainly had, back in the days when sunshine was good for you and we soaked up as much of it as we could get, little dreaming that one day it would be as dangerous as coffee, alcohol, food, water and air.

Anyway, I’ve seen all the medical dramas, so I was straight in with the pointed questions.
“So er… er… what are my options?”
“Well, you could simply leave it there to rot into your head, which might work as a conversation starter, or you could do what most people do and have it removed.”

Surgery.

Hardball.

“With a knife?”
“That’s right.”
“Couldn’t you do it with a laser, or a damp cloth or something?”
“Don’t worry, it’s nothing. Local anaesthetic. Chop chop, couple of stitches, ten minutes tops.”
“Chop chop?”
“Technical term. Do you have medical insurance?”
“Yeah, it’s called the National Health Service.”

He laughed like an executioner.
“That one always makes me chuckle. OK, I’ll add your name to the waiting list, but it’s likely to be a few months. However, if you’d care to have it done privately I could fit you in this week.”

Now we were getting down to business.

“How much?”
“Five hundred pounds.”
“Hold on. Ten minutes tops – five hundred pounds?”
“That’s for my time and the hire of the operating theatre. Anaesthetic would be extra. You’d want anaesthetic, I take it?”
“Why not? Let’s push the boat out.”
“That’ll be another thirty-five. Then you’ll have to have the stitches out, plus my initial consultation. To be honest, you’re looking at more like six-fifty all told. Also, I should warn you there will be some scarring, but I’ll do my best to make the scar fit in with the other lines on your head.”

“Thank you Dr Schweitzer, you’re a saint. Here’s my credit card.“

So a couple of days later I went in. Chop chop, couple of stitches, ten minutes tops. Ch-ching!!!

The following day a letter arrived from the NHS offering me an immediate appointment to have it done for nothing. I felt like slapping myself all around the room and then kicking myself all the way back again, but I couldn’t disturb the stitches, so I didn’t even have that pleasure.

You write beautifully, DK.

wow, an unsourced blog, that's certainly the nail in the coffin of the NHS..

I read it more as a bitch about thatcher myself...

Happy now?:rolleyes:

no, the NHS usually just rents out hospital space at private care companies anyway (yes the NHS sells hospital beds to private care then rents them back and still somehow makes a surplus budget) so it doesn't really make a difference rich or poor

*sings God Save the Queen*

I once had a government professor that said not even Thatcher dared to touch the NHS when she came to power... and looks like he was wrong.

last time i used the NHS, i made an appointment with my doctor, she referred me to the hospital, and i had my operation two days later (24hr waiting, 24 hr on nil-by-mouth). walked out, paid not a penny, made my checkup appointments with the doctor, no waiting, and saw the nurses in my local GP's surgery every day (for about a month) for support and help.

who needs private when the NHS has always been excellent for me? :)

wow, an unsourced blog, that's certainly the nail in the coffin of the NHS..

It's got me completely and totally convinced.

no, the NHS usually just rents out hospital space at private care companies anyway (yes the NHS sells hospital beds to private care then rents them back and still somehow makes a surplus budget) so it doesn't really make a difference rich or poor

*sings God Save the Queen*

*Removes all air from the room, so sound of nonsensical patriotism does not reach mine ears*

GAH! Ok, my basic point that private is quicker than NHS, and that people shouldn't be entitled to have serious ailments dealt with quicker on the basis of bank balance. I won't include any specifics on the deeper workings of the NHS, as clearly I know absolutely nothing at all about them :p

I once had a government professor that said not even Thatcher dared to touch the NHS when she came to power... and looks like he was wrong.
the NHS has been slowly privatised in its internal operations over the last 20 years, in the name of efficiency.

i'm no expert, but from what i've read its allowed private companies to make fat profits from a public service. i don't want my tax pounds going into the pocket of private firms thank you. that private margin is really like a loss of public funds from a public system - just a different kind of inefficiency that they were trying to avoid in the first place :rolleyes:

plus, the notion of setting up quasi-markets within the NHS is retarded considering there is rarely local NHS competition. same goes for the trains. you're just creating a bunch of smaller monopolies...


*goes to sleep*

the part that makes it unbelievable to me is the operating room and expensive anesthetic.

basal cell skin cancer on the forehead is an in-office procedure that takes a few minutes, isnt it?

Here's how the end of that blog might have gone without the NHS...

...
Now we were getting down to business.

“How much?”
“Five hundred pounds.”
“Hold on. Ten minutes tops – five hundred pounds?”
“That’s for my time and the hire of the operating theatre. Anaesthetic would be extra. You’d want anaesthetic, I take it?”
“But thats ridiculous, I'm in debt, I can't afford any more!
“Well, That’d be another thirty-five. Then you’ll have to have the stitches out, plus my initial consultation. To be honest, you’re looking at more like six-fifty all told.

“But I am a human being, just like people who are rich I have the right to important medical treatment, however much money I have.“

"Hey, screw you commie, I bet your homepage is Marxists.org. You should have worked harder at school. Because a capitalist economy is obviously capable of ensuring that EVERYONE is wealthy. When your head starts rotting, come back and we might be able to help raise funds for your treatment by putting you on display. Now get the hell out of my platinum-plated office, you scummy prole."

Hotwife, your constant cut-and-paste routine without sources is getting tiresome. Additionally so when we paste phrases of the horseshit you copy into Google and they come up as blogs with biases that would make Sean Hannity blush.

Have you never anything constructive to say? At long last, sir, have you no relevance?

GAH! Ok, my basic point that private is quicker than NHS, and that people shouldn't be entitled to have serious ailments dealt with quicker on the basis of bank balance. I won't include any specifics on the deeper workings of the NHS, as clearly I know absolutely nothing at all about them :p

Private care isn't quicker than private, and money doesn't guarantee you jump the queue.

Here's an example, from my own past, of how the NHS works:

I discover a hernia.
I go to my doctor. He agrees it is a hernia, and spends a few minutes evaluating how serious it is.
It's not very serious.
I get an appointment for a surgery four-weeks-from-the-day.
Two weeks later I go back, with some pain - I end up with an appointment in two days.

If the hernia had strangulated (that's hernia-talk for 'gone critical'), I'd have been in hospital immediately.

The NHS prioritises based on seriousness.

Now - there are different factors in 'seriousness' (like the specific disorder, is it contagious, etc) and there are other factors too (like doctor availability - if there's a doctor with an opening, you will probably get seen much sooner), but in general, the more it hurts, or the more 'threatening' it is, the quicker you'll get seen.

That's never been a problem for me - if I need a surgeon, but not for something important, I don't really MIND emergency cases being ahead of me.

Hotwife, your constant cut-and-paste routine without sources is getting tiresome. Additionally so when we paste phrases of the horseshit you copy into Google and they come up as blogs with biases that would make Sean Hannity blush.

Have you never anything constructive to say? At long last, sir, have you no relevance?

For God's sake don't be too criticial. Hotwife provides the cut-and-paste without sources from the right that balances out that from the left than Andaras provides. If Hotwife leaves, the equilibrium of the forum will be thrown out, leading to utter disaster. It'd be like the film "The Day after Tomorrow". Small changes lead to total disaster, Oh the water temperature has gone down a few degrees. HOLY CRAP EVERYTHING IS TURNING TO ICE AND THE WORLD IS ENDING! Only in forum form. Which could mean various disasters such as timewarping becoming real. Do you really want to make a post and wake up dazed five minutes later to find that you are trapped in 1934? :p

For God's sake don't be too criticial. Hotwife provides the cut-and-paste without sources from the right that balances out that from the left than Andaras provides. If Hotwife leaves, the equilibrium of the forum will be thrown out, leading to utter disaster. It'd be like the film "The Day after Tomorrow". Small changes lead to total disaster, Oh the water temperature has gone down a few degrees. HOLY CRAP EVERYTHING IS TURNING TO ICE AND THE WORLD IS ENDING! Only in forum form. Which could mean various disasters such as timewarping becoming real. Do you really want to make a post and wake up dazed five minutes later to find that you are trapped in 1934? :p

Actually, seeing as how I've always felt like a walking anachronism...nah. Do want intertubez.

Hotwife doesn't balance Andaras. Two shite-posting shills for their respective ideologies are on the same side. The side of ham-handed satire, alarmism and childish baiting.

Here's how the end of that blog might have gone without the NHS...

...
Now we were getting down to business.

“How much?”
“Five hundred pounds.”
“Hold on. Ten minutes tops – five hundred pounds?”
“That’s for my time and the hire of the operating theatre. Anaesthetic would be extra. You’d want anaesthetic, I take it?”
“But thats ridiculous, I'm in debt, I can't afford any more!
“Well, That’d be another thirty-five. Then you’ll have to have the stitches out, plus my initial consultation. To be honest, you’re looking at more like six-fifty all told.

“But I am a human being, just like people who are rich I have the right to important medical treatment, however much money I have.“

"Hey, screw you commie, I bet your homepage is Marxists.org. You should have worked harder at school. Because a capitalist economy is obviously capable of ensuring that EVERYONE is wealthy. When your head starts rotting, come back and we might be able to help raise funds for your treatment by putting you on display. Now get the hell out of my platinum-plated office, you scummy prole."


actually, without NHS...

Now we were getting down to business.

“How much?”
“Five hundred pounds.”
“Hold on. Ten minutes tops – five hundred pounds?”
“That’s for my time and the hire of the operating theatre. Anaesthetic would be extra. You’d want anaesthetic, I take it?”
“But thats ridiculous, I'm in debt, I can't afford any more!
“Well, That’d be another thirty-five. Then you’ll have to have the stitches out, plus my initial consultation. To be honest, you’re looking at more like six-fifty all told."
"but by insurance coverage from work..."
"Let's see that plan... ahh... $10 co-payment for this visit and followups... having at a participating Hospital... $5000 coverage... 20$ co payment for the drugs... so all that it will cost you about $30 and the time to fill out all these forms (places a stack of forms on the desk.)

oh and praying that the insurance company doesn't challange the billing...

Hotwife, your constant cut-and-paste routine without sources is getting tiresome. Additionally so when we paste phrases of the horseshit you copy into Google and they come up as blogs with biases that would make Sean Hannity blush.

Have you never anything constructive to say? At long last, sir, have you no relevance?
as usual there is a good reason why he didnt provide a link

its from a comedy sketch.

http://www.patcondell.net/page2/page8/page8.html

Actually, seeing as how I've always felt like a walking anachronism...nah. Do want intertubez.

Hotwife doesn't balance Andaras. Two shite-posting shills for their respective ideologies are on the same side. The side of ham-handed satire, alarmism and childish baiting.

But...they must be here for a reason. Well, lets be honest, few people would read piss-poor fringe blogs if they hadn't been copy-pasted here. It expands our light reading, and gives posters a pleasant feeling of superiority when they can say to an ideological opponent that they've just copy-pasted from a crappy blog. It ensures that even those here that aren't confident at debating can occasionally win, increasing their confidence, and thus over time increasing the overall quality of debate as others feel more able to chip in. Okay, thats a pile of balls, but its the best I could do :p

EDIT:

as usual there is a good reason why he didnt provide a link

its from a comedy sketch.

http://www.patcondell.net/page2/page8/page8.html

I almost feel sorry for Hotwife now, such is the level of total and utter ownage this discovery will unleash

as usual there is a good reason why he didnt provide a link

its from a comedy sketch.

http://www.patcondell.net/page2/page8/page8.html

I'd say this would screw him over, except that he'll probably use this to cover his ass and say he was sharing a joke. :(

I'd say this would screw him over, except that he'll probably use this to cover his ass and say he was sharing a joke. :(

Yes, he is, that joke being...himself. *comic drum roll*

Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week. Try the veal

as usual there is a good reason why he didnt provide a link

its from a comedy sketch.

http://www.patcondell.net/page2/page8/page8.html

Ehhh... that's pretty sad....

Here's how it goes for us over in America, so long as you have a semi-decent job...


“How much?”
“Five hundred dollars.”
“Hold on. Ten minutes tops – five hundred dollars?”
“Well, I did go to four years of college, four years of medical school, four years of specialty training, a year of intership, and three years of residency, so by paying the hospital, you're not only paying my salary (most of which goes to malpractice insurance after you sue me) but also for the services of the rest of the hospital staff who are fighting to save your life."
"Well, why can't it just be free? Hell, in Canada, the government pays the hospitals!"
"Aye, and you pay plenty in taxes. Besides, you have a job, so you're pretty much covered, and by keeping a privatized healthcare program, you keep hospitals and pharmaceutical companies competitive and willing to buy the latest equipment to stay up-to-date. "
"Oh. Jolly good, then. But let's say I didn't have a job, or insurance? What then?"
"Well, you could always just go to a free medical clinic or community hospital. And if you're that poor, use the Medicaid programs the government set up."
"Oh. So when's my appointment?"
"We can have it done tomorrow and you'll be out shortly after. By the way, have you heard how Leistung turned this into a universal healthcare debate?"
"Why yes, I have...damn his oily capitalist hide..."

Ehhh... that's pretty sad....
The saddest part, Hotwife missed the punchline:

The following day a letter arrived from the NHS offering me an immediate appointment to have it done for nothing. I felt like slapping myself all around the room and then kicking myself all the way back again, but I couldn’t disturb the stitches, so I didn’t even have that pleasure.

as usual there is a good reason why he didnt provide a link

its from a comedy sketch.

http://www.patcondell.net/page2/page8/page8.html

Why am I not surprised. It's like he's not even trying anymore.

as usual there is a good reason why he didnt provide a link

its from a comedy sketch.

http://www.patcondell.net/page2/page8/page8.html

wait wait, along with the obvious Airplane! "can I call you shirley?" reference, someone actually even contimplated that this might have been real?

wait wait, along with the obvious Airplane! "can I call you shirley?" reference, someone actually even contimplated that this might have been real?

I get the feeling most of us didn't actually read the whole thing but skimmed it just a bit and figured it was some trash.

Not a good habit, but there you go.

wait wait, along with the obvious Airplane! "can I call you shirley?" reference, someone actually even contimplated that this might have been real?

Quoi?

"Surely you must be joking."
"I'm not joking. And stop calling me Shirley."

That joke?

The saddest part, Hotwife missed the punchline:

Wait, are we sure about that? That's kinda what I expected before I actually read what he posted....

The saddest part, Hotwife missed the punchline:

Wow. Massive fail on his part.

covered everything... and that there wasn't any waiting.
No, that would be wrong.

It covers almost everything (you'd have trouble trying to get implants on the NHS, although it has been done), and you often do have to wait.
It appears by this account, that if you're going "private" you can get it done straight away, and if you're NHS, you're on a waiting list.
Yes, but with private you have to pay at the point of service, whereas with the NHS, you don't.

The saddest part, Hotwife missed the punchline:
Yeah, I was trying to work out what his point was. Go private, and pay loads of cash, or stay with the NHS and have it done for free, straight away?

The blog is in support of the NHS, DK. Learn to read what you're posting.

Yeah, I was trying to work out what his point was. Go private, and pay loads of cash, or stay with the NHS and have it done for free, straight away?

The blog is in support of the NHS, DK. Learn to read what you're posting.

That would involve DK thinking. Let's not ask the boy to hurt himself.

I must be too sober, because this thread looks like a potential criticism of the NHS attempted through the medium of a story about someone being ripped-off by the private sector and offered free treatment by the NHS.

Oh, yeah, that's what everyone else is saying, too.

Does the lack of an NHS lead to fail going untreated in the US, or something?

We're told here in the US that the NHS is the shizzle...

It is in fact the umm shizzle(I think thats a good thing?) but it being more or less free, and there being more or less 60 million people here, you have to expect some wait for some services wouldn't you.

I have to applaud this. It can't be easy to attempt a debate about an institution that is in serious need of reform and yet completely avoid any relevant issues. Its not as though its difficult to find criticism of the NHS as it exists today. Anyone can find something they don't like about it from the most die hard socialist to the most ardent libertarian.

I have to applaud this. It can't be easy to attempt a debate about an institution that is in serious need of reform and yet completely avoid any relevant issues. Its not as though its difficult to find criticism of the NHS as it exists today. Anyone can find something they don't like about it from the most die hard socialist to the most ardent libertarian.

But it's still far more pros than cons.

And, having lived in both the US and the UK, I can tell you from first hand experience that it beats the piss out of the alternative.

I have to applaud this. It can't be easy to attempt a debate about an institution that is in serious need of reform and yet completely avoid any relevant issues.
He's a special guy, our Hotwife.

But it's still far more pros than cons.

And, having lived in both the US and the UK, I can tell you from first hand experience that it beats the piss out of the alternative.

Plenty of things have more pros than cons, depending on what you compare them to. It does not mean that NHS reform is not urgent; nor does it mean that by reforming it we have to adopt the same health system the US uses.

He's a special guy, our Hotwife.

I guess some people like to be exceptional at something, regardless of what that may be.

Plenty of things have more pros than cons, depending on what you compare them to.


Itself?


It does not mean that NHS reform is not urgent; nor does it mean that by reforming it we have to adopt the same health system the US uses.

The NHS could use some work, but it's not nearly as bad as a lot of people make out.

The biggest problem with the NHS is that familiarity breeds contempt. Anyone who wants to make a serious, objective analysis, should try living with something else for a while.

It does not mean that NHS reform is not urgent
The only thing that needs to be changed about the NHS is that it shouldn't have lawyers straight from universities in charge of hospitals, it should ideally have someone whose background lies in the NHS.

Itself?

If you only compare things to themselves, how can you decide wether something else is better?

The NHS could use some work, but it's not nearly as bad as a lot of people make out.

There are a number of issues which are quite serious. Many of them are not noticable from a patients perspective but they will become noticable eventually if nothing is done - I'm talking about unsustainable growth in funding, recuitment of new doctors, targets which damage staff morale, patient funded top ups and incentives to improve hospital quality.

The biggest problem with the NHS is that familiarity breeds contempt. Anyone who wants to make a serious, objective analysis, should try living with something else for a while.

The poor quality of our neighbours does not excuse ourselves.

If you only compare things to themselves, how can you decide wether something else is better?


I wasn't deciding that. I was saying the NHS system has more pros than cons. It is made of more win than fail.


There are a number of issues which are quite serious. Many of them are not noticable from a patients perspective but they will become noticable eventually if nothing is done - I'm talking about unsustainable growth in funding, recuitment of new doctors, targets which damage staff morale, patient funded top ups and incentives to improve hospital quality.


There are problems. Many of them could be improved on quite easily. But it's still, overall, a good thing.


The poor quality of our neighbours does not excuse ourselves.

See - this is separate to the 'pros and cons' thing, but it is something worth considering. Even though our system is more pro than con judged on it's OWN merits, it's even MORE so, when you judge it against some of the alternatives.

There are problems. Many of them could be improved on quite easily. But it's still, overall, a good thing.

I never denied that the NHS was a good thing - I consider any 'free at the point of use' health system to not only be good, but necessary. However, if the some of the issues I raised are not addressed soon I believe they have the potential to end the existence of our free health system. I refer specifically to the issues associated with NHS funding including those indirectly associated such as staff morale.

The whole premise of the OP is based off of interpreting a comedy blog as a genuine rant. It's deader than the OP would love to see all Muslims. This is almost up there with the time FOXNews cited The Onion as a source.

Actually, seeing as how I've always felt like a walking anachronism...nah. Do want intertubez.

Hotwife doesn't balance Andaras. Two shite-posting shills for their respective ideologies are on the same side. The side of ham-handed satire, alarmism and childish baiting.

Do we have any direct proof that they aren't the same person trolling from both sides?:eek:

Do we have any direct proof that they aren't the same person trolling from both sides?:eek:

That wouldn't surprise me. Both personalities seem chronically unable to enter a thread without either posting crap without sources or repeating the same tired Marxist rhetoric over and over again. Sheer single-(bloody)-mindedness.

Notice how Coldexgirlfriend hasn't come back to take responsibility for being completely fulla shit? Also typical.

I've been schooled many times in NSG. Neo Art, Cat-Tribe, Grave_n_Idle, Sinuhue/Neesika, Dempublicents1 and some others have spanked my arguments completely out of the capacity to hold water. I get frustrated, I concede, life goes on, and everyone's friendly.

Apparently decency is out of style.