NationStates Jolt Archive

So, inspired by the "Ultimate Question" thread, how honest are you? I mean do you tell little white lies from time to time? Are you going to tell the truth to a question you know that the person doesn't want to hear the truth?

Me, I am completely honest, I always make it a habit to be honest to everyone, no matter what the circumstances are. I also make it a point to be very blunt and to the point when being honest. It's like adding sprinkles and a strawberry on top of the honest ice cream for me. :D

So how honest are you?

Lying never gets people anywhere. The truth always comes out eventually. Thus I do not bother to lie.

I am so completely honest that I admit to white lies.
And some bigger lies sometimes.
And those great lies when I´m in trouble.
...

Lying never gets people anywhere. The truth always comes out eventually. Thus I do not bother to lie.

Good man. :)

Lying never gets people anywhere. The truth always comes out eventually. Thus I do not bother to lie.

Except for just then, right?

Sometimes I just find the truth is less entertaining.

Fairly honest.
I will hold back with the truth if I know no good will come of it, or the person in question might be hurt, but I wouldn't tell an outright lie.

I have once knew someone who thoguht that being truthful at all times and completely open and blunt was a virtue... he could never understand why people avoided him.

Fairly honest.
I will hold back with the truth if I know no good will come of it, or the person in question might be hurt, but I wouldn't tell an outright lie.

I have once knew someone who thoguht that being truthful at all times and completely open and blunt was a virtue... he could never understand why people avoided him.

Here's what I don't get. I hear all the time that people want me to be honest with them, so I am, and when I'm too honest, they bitch.

Do you want me to be honest, or lie, pick one and stick with it.

Except for just then, right?

Well, we all lie at some point in our life. So yes, technically I did just lie. My point being, I choose not to lie any more.

Here's what I don't get. I hear all the time that people want me to be honest with them, so I am, and when I'm too honest, they bitch.

Do you want me to be honest, or lie, pick one and stick with it.

There's a difference between being honest, as in not telling lies, and being insulting and hurtful, as in telling people everything without considering their feelings.

I have once knew someone who thoguht that being truthful at all times and completely open and blunt was a virtue... he could never understand why people avoided him.
So that's why... :(

I've never understood celebrating a lack of tact as a virtue. Honesty is fine, being a dick about it speaks to a character weakness. You can see it in the terminology, 'brutally' honest implies that the only 'honesty' that the person is 'honest' about is whatever the can find that will be the most painful or hurtful. I don't know if it stems from a place of inferiority, where the person can only feel good about themselves by tearing someone down, or a desire for attention that comes from saying the most outrageous or tactless thing they can think of, or something else.

Anyway...honesty prevents your friend who can't sing for shit going to, say, a national singing competition show and getting crushed forcing you to compound the lie by having to say that the judges don't know what they're talking about...but even then, tact is a virtue.

There's a difference between being honest, as in not telling lies, and being insulting and hurtful, as in telling people everything without considering their feelings.

Yea, there are ultra-sensitive people though. Even if I was just honest and not blunt and to the point, I guarantee you that I'll still hurt someone's feeling by not "sparing" their feelings and lie.

I've never understood celebrating a lack of tact as a virtue. Honesty is fine, being a dick about it speaks to a character weakness. You can see it in the terminology, 'brutally' honest implies that the only 'honesty' that the person is 'honest' about is whatever the can find that will be the most painful or hurtful. I don't know if it stems from a place of inferiority, where the person can only feel good about themselves by tearing someone down, or a desire for attention that comes from saying the most outrageous or tactless thing they can think of, or something else.

Eh, my family is just very direct with each other, and we don't sugar coat things. We're not Mr. Rogers in my family, so that's where I got it from. Yes there is something to be said about tact, but I have met people who need to have it hammered into their thick skull.

Honestly, I just treat people the way I want to be treated. I'm honest, to the point and blunt because that's how I want people to be with me. I hate sugar coating, because all you're doing is pussy-footing around the real answer.

We all use white lies, all the time. It's called being polite and they are important to the smooth functioning of society. Be it when you say "it's nice to meet you again" to a business associate who you really couldn't care less about or "I'm fine" when really you're not but don't want to talk about it.

I think the important moral question is not do you lie but where do you put the line between harmless politeness/social niceties and harmful lying?

We all use white lies, all the time. It's called being polite and they are important to the smooth functioning of society. Be it when you say "it's nice to meet you again" to a business associate who you really couldn't care less about or "I'm fine" when really you're not but don't want to talk about it.

I think the important moral question is not do you lie but where do you put the line between harmless politeness/social niceties and harmful lying?

I just don't see the point in white lies to be "nice". Because most likely you'll be bitching about the same person to your friends, and it's going to get back to that person and you'll seem like a bigger asshole for talking about him behind his back than you would've if you just been honest.

Yea, there are ultra-sensitive people though. Even if I was just honest and not blunt and to the point, I guarantee you that I'll still hurt someone's feeling by not "sparing" their feelings and lie.

Well, it's the difference between asking a friend where they spent the last night and see if he/she wants to talk, and outright telling them that you saw them cheating on their BF/GF....
Or the difference between starting a discussion about deodorants and perfumes with someone rather than telling them outright that they stink.

Well, it's the difference between asking a friend where they spent the last night and see if he/she wants to talk, and outright telling them that you saw them cheating on their BF/GF....
Or the difference between starting a discussion about deodorants and perfumes with someone rather than telling them outright that they stink.

Me I'd go like this.

"Hmm, so did your gf/bf know where you were last night?"

"Hey Bob, did you run out of deodorant this morning?"

Me I'd go like this.

"Hmm, so did your gf/bf know where you were last night?"

"Hey Bob, did you run out of deodorant this morning?"

Both times, if the person you address would happen to be me, I'd turn around and walk away and avoid talking to you in the future.

It's needlessly hurtful and insulting.

I just don't see the point in white lies to be "nice". Because most likely you'll be bitching about the same person to your friends, and it's going to get back to that person and you'll seem like a bigger asshole for talking about him behind his back than you would've if you just been honest.

Tell you what. During a day, consciously make a note of every time you say something which isn't true. Don't try and change your usual behaviour but look at your interactions with others, not just your friends/colleagues, but also random strangers, authority figures (e.g. police), your boss, business contacts, etc. I can assure you, you probably lie a lot more than you think, but you don't notice it because it's so minor.

I can understand (even if I don't agree) with being incredibly honest with friends/acquaintances, especially over incidents that piss you off so much you would bitch about them otherwise. But we lie a surprisingly high amount of times during ordinary social interactions, it's part of human socialization, we just are rarely consciously aware of it.

Both times, if the person you address would happen to be me, I'd turn around and walk away and avoid talking to you in the future.

It's needlessly hurtful and insulting.

Ok, the second one is alittle harsh I'll admit. But the first one, honestly? You expect to cheat on your bf/gf, I happen to see it, and let you get away with it?

See, there are two ways that can go.

1. You're honest with me and tell me the truth, in which case I may suggest you tell your bf/gf the truth.

2. You lie to me and I play with you like a cat does with a dead mouse.

Ok, the second one is alittle harsh I'll admit. But the first one, honestly? You expect to cheat on your bf/gf, I happen to see it, and let you get away with it?

See, there are two ways that can go.

1. You're honest with me and tell me the truth, in which case I may suggest you tell your bf/gf the truth.

2. You lie to me and I play with you like a cat does with a dead mouse.

3. I tell you it's none of your business.

Even if I had been willing to talk about it, after a remark like the one above I wouldn't.

3. I tell you it's none of your business.

Even if I had been willing to talk about it, after a remark like the one above I wouldn't.

Oh trust me, if you were dating one of my friends and I catch you cheating on them, I will make it my business. I am very protective of my friends and family.

If it was just some random stranger that I knew through you, then I probably will lose interest after awhile.

Oh trust me, if you were dating one of my friends and I catch you cheating on them, I will make it my business. I am very protective of my friends and family.

If it was just some random stranger that I knew through you, then I probably will lose interest after awhile.

See, in my case you'd be knee-deep in a can of worms if you did that.
How would you know about the whole situation? If you had seen me with another guy, how would you know that my BF isn't ok with it? But that he may not have told you for his own reasons?
In my personal case, me and my BF are swingers. But none of his friends know about it, as he doesn't like the stupid comments and looks. If one of them walked up to him and told him he'd caught me cheating, my BF would probably stop all contact with that person.

It's called "tact", and it's there for a reason, see?

As honest as I can be. I would rather not say something, if it would hurt someone else, if I told the truth, rather than lie.

Usually I tell the truth, it's far more fun to tell it then lie.

That said, I recognize the need for tact and diplomacy (Perhaps living in Japan has really rubbed off on me) so now I tend to leave a lot more unsaid and still manage to not lie, if not tell the whole of the truth.

I am quite capable of spinning yarns out just for fibs sake when the mood takes me however, or perhaps for a prank or to keep a surprise a surprise (All of which drives my wife nuts because she is never quite sure if I'm up to something or not).

But, for the most part, I keep myself honest.

I'm a terrible liar. Thus I usually don't bother. Dissembling now that's different.

I NEVER LIE!!!

Or do i :D

I don't bother lieing, i just like twisting the facts in an entertianing manner. It's not lie's it's impoverisation.... which i can't spell...

I'll tell white lies...for example, if I'm at work, and a friend is having a bad hair day...
"my fringe is sticking up all over the place, I look awful"
"Don't worry about it, you look fine"

Theres no harm in that...if I say "oh yeah, you look like shit", she'd most likely stop speaking to me.

Using tact and telling white lies like that are fine.

yee shall not lie even when its hard

I lie so hard my pants start to combust

I can't imagine I would find a job ever if I told the whole truth : P

yee shall not lie even when its hard

Who is Yee?

Who is Yee?
I assume some sort of relation (adopted Asian sibling?) to the notorious Mr. Thou?

Though I'm somewhat more interested in what of Yee is hard, and what relation that bears to lying, than the nature of the whole Yee entity.

I tell white lies and try to be generally polite, but otherwise I'm fairly honest.

Who is Yee?

She is.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5128/yeeqy1.png (http://imageshack.us)

She is.

<snippic>

Huh... she doesn't look hard, does she?

I assume some sort of relation (adopted Asian sibling?) to the notorious Mr. Thou?

Though I'm somewhat more interested in what of Yee is hard, and what relation that bears to lying, than the nature of the whole Yee entity.

Hmmm... could Yee be the Asian variant of Pinocchio? Hard-nosed liar?

Huh... she doesn't look hard, does she?

Must resist temptation to make innuendo...must resist...:D

Lying never gets people anywhere. The truth always comes out eventually. Thus I do not bother to lie.

Bwahaha I don't belive either you or Wilgrove. Everybody lies from time to time, everybody.

I agree with Eofaerwic, we all use these small white lies all the time... I want to say that I never lie but that would be a lie to start with. However, I am as honest as possible and if I do have to say something that I know might hurt someone I will just put it in a different way, it is much easier then you think...

Me I'd go like this.

"Hmm, so did your gf/bf know where you were last night?"

"Hey Bob, did you run out of deodorant this morning?"

You must be a lot of fun at parties.

I generally won't lie for personal gain or to make someone else feel better. I will lie about things that don't matter in order to save myself a long and drawn-out explanation of something.

I rarely lie. It's just that what I said isn't always what you think I said.

Lying never gets people anywhere. The truth always comes out eventually. Thus I do not bother to lie.

http://blog.vh1.com/files/2008/06/sm_ny_knife.gif

I'm a cop.

Bwahaha I don't belive either you or Wilgrove. Everybody lies from time to time, everybody.

Damn! They're on to us!

http://images.bigfail.com/i/f/10/00/081.jpg

I assume some sort of relation (adopted Asian sibling?) to the notorious Mr. Thou?

Though I'm somewhat more interested in what of Yee is hard, and what relation that bears to lying, than the nature of the whole Yee entity.

So, so wrong.

So, so wrong.

Oh, so you believe sex, and in extension all references or innuendos inferring it, is/are wrong?

So, so wrong.

everything I say is a Lie.

...wait

everything I say is a Lie.

...wait

I'm lying right now.

I'm a cop.

what a coincidence im a 13 yr old girl from cali

what a coincidence im a 13 yr old girl from cali

Damn so am I!

Anyway...honesty prevents your friend who can't sing for shit going to, say, a national singing competition show and getting crushed forcing you to compound the lie by having to say that the judges don't know what they're talking about...but even then, tact is a virtue.

Oh, man, you were at school during the Idol tryouts too, huh? My friends and I had to lie our butts off to a friend who was turned away. Since we didn't know she was going until she already went, there was no point in being honest after she'd already been rejected.

Ok, the second one is alittle harsh I'll admit. But the first one, honestly? You expect to cheat on your bf/gf, I happen to see it, and let you get away with it?

See, there are two ways that can go.

1. You're honest with me and tell me the truth, in which case I may suggest you tell your bf/gf the truth.

2. You lie to me and I play with you like a cat does with a dead mouse.

3. You are not the police state of your local group of friends.

I have never lied in my life, never will and know no one who has ever lied.

Oh, so you believe sex, and in extension all references or innuendos inferring it, is/are wrong?

So, so wrong.

Nonono. That means "that calls for a great dirty joke, but I can't think of one"

Oh, man, you were at school during the Idol tryouts too, huh? My friends and I had to lie our butts off to a friend who was turned away. Since we didn't know she was going until she already went, there was no point in being honest after she'd already been rejected.
Oh no, I was far more and disturbingly close to the most recent auditions...(no, I did not sing)

I am a liar.

Actually, I find lying compulsive, so I've just lied to you by saying I am a liar. This, in turn, prevents me from being honest. However, it makes my claim true, thus making me honest again, but then...

I am a liar.

Actually, I find lying compulsive, so I've just lied to you by saying I am a liar. This, in turn, prevents me from being honest. However, it makes my claim true, thus making me honest again, but then...

There was a Star Trek episode like this. Captain Kirk and his crew were captured by robots. Kirk walked up to the robot guard and said "I'm lying", caused it to suffer an endless paradox, causing it to overheat, and crash.

I don't lie about anything important because of one simple reason: I suck at it. I stutter, I shift, I talk too fast. I can do it at the poker table, but if it's even remotely important interpersonally, I tell the truth. Less to remember that way. There have been times where one easy lie would have saved my ass, but I like the fact that I can look myself in the mirror and sleep at night. My mind already berates me for all my errors in my past -- I don't need more to catalogue.

I am a liar.

Actually, I find lying compulsive, so I've just lied to you by saying I am a liar. This, in turn, prevents me from being honest. However, it makes my claim true, thus making me honest again, but then...

THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT IS TRUE:

The preceding statement is false.

Truth and love are identical.

Truth and love are identical.

Wait, what?

Elaboration, please. Otherwise, you're selling snake oil.

I'm honest enough to admit that I occasionally tell lies.

Wait, what?

Elaboration, please. Otherwise, you're selling snake oil.

I think he's saying that both are subjective.

I think he's saying that both are subjective.

That's why I asked him, so that he may explain his words. Anything else is speculation.

This is a very confusing interface. And I am new here. So go easy on the newbie.
I could go on for days about post modern this and that about the truth. And in truth telling.

Telling or witnessing and even explaining the truth is a subjective argument at best (IMHO of course)... but on a basic EMOtional level only - truth and love are identical.
I cannot explain it completely at this point - but it makes sense to me.
Thanks.

Lying never gets people anywhere. The truth always comes out eventually.

Hardly. I lie whenever I think it would benefit me and not really hurt anyone, which is surprisingly often. I almost never get caught either. Sometimes I lie just cause I know I can get away with it.

Agreed. To tell the truth is to speak frankly.

This is a very confusing interface. And I am new here. So go easy on the newbie.
I could go on for days about post modern this and that about the truth. And in truth telling.

Telling or witnessing and even explaining the truth is a subjective argument at best (IMHO of course)... but on a basic EMOtional level only - truth and love are identical.
I cannot explain it completely at this point - but it makes sense to me.
Thanks.

You cannot explain it at all, yet, let alone completely. If it makes sense to you, how? And truth is subjective at best? I'd agree with truth being subjective at worst. For example, the truth about rain is that it water's the farmers' fields but ruins the kids' baseball game. They both have their truths about rain. Those aren't really truths, even, they're separate opinion and/or perspectives on the one true event: the rain itself.

You'll have to try to explain how truth and love are identical. I might buy "similar", given that one person's love is another's repugnance sometimes, but love is wholly subjective, whereas truth CAN be subjective.

So, inspired by the "Ultimate Question" thread, how honest are you? I mean do you tell little white lies from time to time? Are you going to tell the truth to a question you know that the person doesn't want to hear the truth?

Me, I am completely honest, I always make it a habit to be honest to everyone, no matter what the circumstances are. I also make it a point to be very blunt and to the point when being honest. It's like adding sprinkles and a strawberry on top of the honest ice cream for me. :D

So how honest are you?

I'm always absolutely honest. Even when it might be 'better' not to be.

The truth will out:

Meaning: The truth will become known eventually.
Origin - From Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice, 1600:

LAUNCELOT: Nay, indeed, if you had your eyes, you might fail of
the knowing me: it is a wise father that knows his
own child. Well, old man, I will tell you news of
your son: give me your blessing: truth will come
to light; murder cannot be hid long; a man's son
may, but at the length truth will out.

I always lie. In fact, I'm lying right now.

These things called truth and love are just thoughts in my mind. IMHO.
The rain is real for everyone playing baseball or on the farmer's fields watering crops.
The love one feels - is real at the time for one alone?
And maybe all this truth of feeling is really just thought alone?

Everyone lies, it helps society function. I sometimes have the problem of being too honest and upsetting people. Tact comes more easily to some than others.

These things called truth and love are just thoughts in my mind. IMHO.
The rain is real for everyone playing baseball or on the farmer's fields watering crops.
The love one feels - is real at the time for one alone?
And maybe all this truth of feeling is really just thought alone?

Still waiting for a coherent answer.

It can be argued that everything is but a thought in someone's mind.

Once more: you say truth and love are identical. I ask how.

Here is some real truth - this interface is horrible. It needs a master key zone for posting users new ideas so we can see what we are doing in real time. This digging through layers of older posts to get to a new post is contrarian to user flow. IMHO.

Here is some real truth - this interface is horrible. It needs a master key zone for posting users new ideas so we can see what we are doing in real time. This digging through layers of older posts to get to a new post is contrarian to user flow. IMHO.

Uh...I have mine set up so newest posts are first...if that's what you're on about.

All emotions are all just thought. Love Anger Hate and etc... are all thought.
And the "actual truth" really as a reality and as subjective as it is - is a supra-emotional feeling by manifesting itself through thought. IMHO of course.

Everything Itell you is a LIE! Got that! I ONLY LIE!
(Including this statement. Which makes it true. Which again makes it false. Which makes it true again. etc etc etc...)

But honestly, I usually tell the truth, except for when people are messing with my business. If I know that it would have unrightous negative impact on my life, I lie. But when I know that a negative response is appropriate, because I did something wrong, I always tell the truth. There are two other exceptions, and that are to:
a) Help someone who would be in trouble if I told the truth.
b) I lie to people if I know it would hurt them alot if I told the truth, and I know they don't depend on me telling them the truth.

All emotions are all just thought. Love Anger Hate and etc... are all thought.
And the "actual truth" really as a reality and as subjective as it is - is a supra-emotional feeling by manifesting itself through thought. IMHO of course.

Aren't emotions basically chemical response?

And... wouldn't 'actual truth' be some kind of non-subjective external factor, open to independent verification?

Kind of... the opposite of love, in fact?

I always lie. (Probably already been said by someone, and an utter waste of data on the page, but mreh.)

Sometimes I just find the truth is less entertaining.

Well in that case this is the most entertaining forum on the net. :p

There was a Star Trek episode like this. Captain Kirk and his crew were captured by robots. Kirk walked up to the robot guard and said "I'm lying", caused it to suffer an endless paradox, causing it to overheat, and crash.
I, Mudd.

No I'm not a Trek geek.

Oh wait...

There is a difference between telling the truth, being an asshole under the guise of telling the truth, keeping your mouth shut when you know the only thing that can come of blabbing is hurting someone for no good reason, and lying.

There are even times when lying is permissible -- as in someone kicking in your front door with gun in hand and demanding to know where one of your loved ones is so they can kill them.

There are a number of people whose feelings would be hurt if I told the blunt, unvarnished truth as I perceive it, and since it serves no purpose to hurt them, I say nothing.

If that makes me a liar, then oh well.

There was a Star Trek episode like this. Captain Kirk and his crew were captured by robots. Kirk walked up to the robot guard and said "I'm lying", caused it to suffer an endless paradox, causing it to overheat, and crash.
That was Mudd who did that.

Kirk: "Everything Harry tells you is a lie -- remember that! Everything Harry tells you is a lie!"
Mudd: "Now listen to me carefully, Norman laddie; I - am - lying!"
Norman: "You lie, but if everything you say is a lie then you must be telling the truth, but you cannot be telling the truth because everything you say is a lie... you lie, you tell the truth, you– Illogical! Illogical! Please explain! You are human! Only humans can explain their behavior! Please explain!"

Trekkie? Who? Me? *quickly hides three Starfleet uniforms* Oh no, not me!

Regardless of what anyone may claim, everyone has lied on occasion; it may be a little fib to spare someone's feelings or to cover your own ass, it was still a lie. You may have withheld comment rather than say something hurtful; it's not quite a lie, but ultimately, it qualifies.

If you tell the proud mother that her child looks like a cross between Eleanor Roosevelt and Winston Churchill with overtones of deranged chimpanzee, what does it get anyone? You've hurt mom's feelings and probably damaged any chance at friendship with someone who is probably a good person.

And that's the least amount of harm you could do by being completely and unequivocally truthful about all things.

If you're an intelligence operative (highly unlikely) do you tell the truth about what you're doing? Of course not.

If your wife is having a bad hair day, do you point it out to her? No!

If your husband leaves you unsatisfied once in a while and you fake it, is that wrong? No!

On the other hand, if you hide a criminal act or tell a self-aggrandizing lie or a lie that will, utimately harm someone, that is, indeed, wrong.

Whether to lie or not is an existential question. It is, in the final analysis, circumstantial.

Still waiting for a coherent answer.

It can be argued that everything is but a thought in someone's mind.

Once more: you say truth and love are identical. I ask how.

I can field this one, if you don't mind me getting religous on your arse!

In the Sikh religoin we say 'Ek onkar sat naam' Which means '1 God, who's name is true/truth' broadly speaking this can be taken as, there is one objective truth and that is God, as we all know God is love, so God is both truth and love.

Tada! I thank you!

if they don't want to hear as honest and objective an observation as i am humanly capable of, they don't have to ask the question!

i don't tell people what they don't ask, and get rather annoyed with people who insist, in real life, on telling me what i don't ask. especially when their doing so serves only to distract from and destroy, whatever is useful, interesting, or gratifying, as an expression of their infantile emotional attatchment to demanding the attention of others.

all deception is potentially harmful to some degree.
honesty can also be risky.
the more dangerous it is, defines how tyrannical a situation it is in the context of.

when spin is a prerequisite of survival, the least harmful (to everyone) way of doing so is by selective omission.

this is for an individual's survival. the place where it does not belong is of course precisely where we observe it the most often: corporate vested media.

=^^=
.../\...

I can field this one, if you don't mind me getting religous on your arse!

In the Sikh religoin we say 'Ek onkar sat naam' Which means '1 God, who's name is true/truth' broadly speaking this can be taken as, there is one objective truth and that is God, as we all know God is love, so God is both truth and love.

Tada! I thank you!

That's the Sikhest thing I've ever heard.

I'm not lying! I'm just not telling you the truth!

if a person imagines they are infallably honest, the're lying to themselves.

but there is a difference between acknowledging our fallability and imprefections, and premeditatedly seeking to deceive.

=^^=
.../\...

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/asgard/the%20cake%20is%20a%20lie.jpg

That's the Sikhest thing I've ever heard.

Bwhahahahah then may I just say a hearty 'Bole so nihal, sat sri akal' to you.

Bwhahahahah then may I just say a hearty 'Bole so nihal, sat sri akal' to you.

You Sikhen me.

I mean, just because you people embrace a long tradition of pursuing lives mindful of a higher ideal while refining your knowledge and expressing the loving hearts of the gurus in your daily thoughts and actions, you think I have to respect you.

Why don't you go engage in one of your little Sikh traditions, like refraining from selling your children for money.

Savage.

You Sikhen me.

I mean, just because you people embrace a long tradition of pursuing lives mindful of a higher ideal while refining your knowledge and expressing the loving hearts of the gurus in your daily thoughts and actions, you think I have to respect you.

Why don't you go engage in one of your little Sikh traditions, like refraining from selling your children for money.

Savage.


If you are trying to get a rise outa me, then thats not the way to do it man.

I'm a converted English gora sikh, any Indian or Punjabi cultural shit just don't apply to me!

Oppps heheh just re-read that! Perhaps you are not trying to get a rise outa me

If you are trying to get a rise outa me, then thats not the way to do it man.

I'm a converted English gora sikh, any Indian or Punjabi cultural shit just don't apply to me!

Oppps heheh just re-read that! Perhaps you are not trying to get a rise outa me

Refraining from giving one's children in marriage for monetary compensation is a Sikh doctrine, I believe, independent of ambient culture.

You Sikho.

Refraining from giving one's children in marriage for monetary compensation is a Sikh doctrine, I believe, independent of ambient culture.

You Sikho.

Yes indeed the idea of dowry is a no no within Sikhi, unfortunalty the Sikh faith has only human followers steeped in cultural practices, even though Guru ji forbids it, ho hum.

One of my many many fights I have with my fellow Sikhs is trying to see the differance between culture and religon.

I believe in giving people the truth, if I can. Therefore, I try my best not to lie. Do i lie? sometimes, but its very rare, and I can't think of one recently.

one thing I have noticed is that most leftists tend to be more on the side of telling lies as "necessary" while right wingers tend to believe in an unadulterated truth.