NationStates Jolt Archive

I was visiting relatives in Germany last month, and as I was talking to them about American politics (the favorite topic of conversation, seeing as German politics are a bit dull), it struck me as odd that EVERY one of my German relatives loves Obama, not to mention some guy on the street I asked who rambled off in super-quick German about how amazing he would be for the world.

Meanwhile, over in France, they just hate both of them. :rolleyes: Damn Frenchies...

I pretty much figured it was just because of his stance on Iraq, but I'm curious as to why you people think he's so adored in Europe (and Germany in particular).

Because Obama is very Charismatic, and takes many views that are implemented in Europe right now?

Yeah...but I like the "Closet Nazi" theory much better.

Besides charisma and policy, he benefits from being opposed to Bush, so hatred for Bush is converted into popularity for him.

Strangely, in Canada, I've found a lot of people simply cannot accept that Obama might win. They like him, but think he will either lose to McCain or be assassinated. I get the impression that a lot of Canadians are so used to having America to look down on, that they are psychologically dependent on eight more years of the status quo:rolleyes:.

I was visiting relatives in Germany last month, and as I was talking to them about American politics (the favorite topic of conversation, seeing as German politics are a bit dull), it struck me as odd that EVERY one of my German relatives loves Obama, not to mention some guy on the street I asked who rambled off in super-quick German about how amazing he would be for the world.

Meanwhile, over in France, they just hate both of them. :rolleyes: Damn Frenchies...

I pretty much figured it was just because of his stance on Iraq, but I'm curious as to why you people think he's so adored in Europe (and Germany in particular).



EDIT: Oops, that's Deutschland. I'm tired.

Between 2001-2004, Germany sent almost 200,000, or 10% of it's Turkish immigrants home with monetary incentives (so it's not like they were illegal, the Germans just didn't want them there). Would they be so eager if he were running for German chancellor...?

Yeah...but I like the "Closet Nazi" theory much better.
http://blogs.citypages.com/gop/Obama%20nazi.bmp

Good thing too. If there were any more of them after this year's Euro '08 Germany-Turkey game, the entire infrastructure of Germany would have been destroyed that night. :D

I officially love you, CM. Greatest picture ever.

I officially love you, CM. Greatest picture ever.

And now watch as some truly unhinged right-wingers take that photoshop to heart and post it on their blogs and websites as if it were God's Testament on Obama.

Unsurprising. Der Vaterland has a history of flocking to charismatic would-be leaders who want to utterly take over the government and increase its scope to fascist proportions, despite having little experience in governance and no qualifications to lead. Difference is, this time it's someone else's government, so they don't have to deal with the fallout.

I have to admit, I'd really like to see him lose just for the sheer abundance of schadenfreude.

Good thing too. If there were any more of them after this year's Euro '08 Germany-Turkey game, the entire infrastructure of Germany would have been destroyed that night. :D

I officially love you, CM. Greatest picture ever.
Thank you :D :fluffle:
And now watch as some truly unhinged right-wingers take that photoshop to heart and post it on their blogs and websites as if it were God's Testament on Obama.

Ah, how good sarcasm can be turned to such malicious purposes...

I have to admit, I'd really like to see him lose just for the sheer abundance of schadenfreude.

Of course if you're an American, it would be enjoying schadenfreude while you're on the deck of the Titanic or Hindenburg.

Of course if you're an American, it would be enjoying schadenfreude while you're on the deck of the Titanic or Hindenburg.

*Crosses fingers, hopes for foreign invasion and occupation until better candidates surface*:D

I have to admit, I'd really like to see him lose just for the sheer abundance of schadenfreude.

I swear to God, that is the most hated work in all of Germany. It's used by every American tourist to every German person in the entire country. Hilarious to see the faces of shopkeepers when some American teenager runs in, knocks something on the counter, yells, "schadenfreude!!!" and runs out.

Seriously, it's more irritating to Germans than "Cool Runnings" is to Jamaicans. :D

I swear to God, that is the most hated work in all of Germany. It's used by every American tourist to every German person in the entire country. Hilarious to see the faces of shopkeepers when some American teenager runs in, knocks something on the counter, yells, "schadenfreude!!!" and runs out.

Seriously, it's more irritating to Germans than "Cool Runnings" is to Jamaicans. :D
*Wikis* Ohhhhhhhh. So it's sadism as an act?

I swear to God, that is the most hated work in all of Germany. It's used by every American tourist to every German person in the entire country. Hilarious to see the faces of shopkeepers when some American teenager runs in, knocks something on the counter, yells, "schadenfreude!!!" and runs out.

Seriously, it's more irritating to Germans than "Cool Runnings" is to Jamaicans. :D

That's just...depressing.

That's just...depressing.
???

How so? No more then Ding-dong ditching a house.

Well, If I'm reading it correctly.

???

How so? No more then Ding-dong ditching a house.

Well, If I'm reading it correctly.

Shoot, I'm just concerned about the brutal misuse of the word schadenfreude...

...causing the misfortune that's amusing you isn't schadenfreude, it's being an ass.

Shoot, I'm just concerned about the brutal misuse of the word schadenfreude...

...causing the misfortune that's amusing you isn't schadenfreude, it's being an ass.
So... I misread it?

So... I misread it?

I guess. :confused:

You know, I liked the purple confused smilie better.

Strangely, in Canada, I've found a lot of people simply cannot accept that Obama might win. They like him, but think he will either lose to McCain or be assassinated. I get the impression that a lot of Canadians are so used to having America to look down on, that they are psychologically dependent on eight more years of the status quo:rolleyes:.

I feel the same way, and I definitely don't want eight more years of the status quo. It's just a little hard to keep hope alive after being saddled with a president the country didn't actually elect--twice--that rode the country intoei ght years of horror and humiliation.

Unsurprising. Der Vaterland has a history of flocking to charismatic would-be leaders who want to utterly take over the government and increase its scope to fascist proportions, despite having little experience in governance and no qualifications to lead. Difference is, this time it's someone else's government, so they don't have to deal with the fallout.

Wait... Obama's a fascist now? I thought he was a communist? That is one hell of a flip-flop, I'll give you that...

I have to admit, I'd really like to see him lose just for the sheer abundance of schadenfreude.

I think you're supposed to experience that from another country. Otherwise it's just masochism.

Wait... Obama's a fascist now? I thought he was a communist? That is one hell of a flip-flop, I'll give you that...

Hey, if he can be a Closet Muslim With a Whitey-Hatin' Christian Pastor...

Sad what Republicans are reduced to: flinging random contradictory smears and hoping one will work.

And look how well that worked for Clinton.

Would they be so eager if he were running for German chancellor...?

Why not? And what has that got to do with the OP

Ok, after all the Nazi/facism/we-hate-foreigners nonsense that seems to be compulsory every time German opinion or politics is mentioned has been posted, might I be the first German to actually reply to this?

It's not just Germany that likes him, it's definitely the UK and Ireland as well.
Currently, it's a bit hard to tell if that is because he is seen as "not Bush" (whereas the other guy is seen as "geriatric Bush"), or if he's seen as another version of Clinton.

European countries tend to be more at ease with democratic candidates, as those at least are sort of in the right-middle European spectrum of politics. Republican candidates are so far right by European standards, people here find it somewhat difficult to take them seriously while knowing full well the extend of damage they can cause. Republicans to Europeans are like, say, a Stormfront or KKK candidate would be to most USAmericans. Nobody debates their perfect right to run, but the thought that a great number of people might vote for them is somewhat weird.
And the thought of having a former priest or minister or whatever he used to be in politics is extremely alien to most Europeans. Separation of church and state over here is more like separation of faith and state. Religion and politics just don't mix.

Ok, after all the Nazi/facism/we-hate-foreigners nonsense that seems to be compulsory every time German opinion or politics is mentioned has been posted, might I be the first German to actually reply to this?

It's not just Germany that likes him, it's definitely the UK and Ireland as well.
Currently, it's a bit hard to tell if that is because he is seen as "not Bush" (whereas the other guy is seen as "geriatric Bush"), or if he's seen as another version of Clinton.

European countries tend to be more at ease with democratic candidates, as those at least are sort of in the right-middle European spectrum of politics. Republican candidates are so far right by European standards, people here find it somewhat difficult to take them seriously while knowing full well the extend of damage they can cause. Republicans to Europeans are like, say, a Stormfront or KKK candidate would be to most USAmericans. Nobody debates their perfect right to run, but the thought that a great number of people might vote for them is somewhat weird.
And the thought of having a former priest or minister or whatever he used to be in politics is extremely alien to most Europeans. Separation of church and state over here is more like separation of faith and state. Religion and politics just don't mix.
Cabra is right.
In fact, I just got off the phone with my dad, who has been voting CDU (German conservative party) all his life - and who hopes to dear life that Obama will win the election. He quite cutely said "You know, McCain may be a nice man, personally and all, but...". Heh.

To put what Cabra said a bit more bluntly: There are things about American politics/society the vast majority of people here find just plain crazy. Like the death penalty, the inner-city poverty, the guns, the religion (the fundies as well as the fact that it permeates politics & daily life so much), the lack of universal health insurance.
So what to Americans might seem like "ooh, leftist policies" here looks like common sense.
And we feel like there has not been a president in recent memory who discarded common sense and instead dipped his hands into the crazy (his own special brand) with as much relish as George W. Bush.
So while none of your candidates would truly dare to do something against most of the things I mentioned, the Democrats will ALWAYS be the lesser evil for the average German looking at the US.

And Obama is even a bit better than just the lesser evil - he's (well, used to be, at the very least) outspoken on some of those things, he's very intelligent (he can even use big words!), he's emphatically not Bush. He gives us a little bit of hope that all is not lost for the US and, by extension because that's how you work, the world.

To put what Cabra said a bit more bluntly: There are things about American politics/society the vast majority of people here find just plain crazy. Like the death penalty, the inner-city poverty, the guns, the religion (the fundies as well as the fact that it permeates politics & daily life so much), the lack of universal health insurance.
So what to Americans might seem like "ooh, leftist policies" here looks like common sense.

The same can be said for most Americans about Europeans and a lot you all have going on over there. Two very different universes, which is why painting each with the same brush is a fallacy, in my opinion. Both sides need to realize this is how we do it over 'here', 'here' being Europe or America, depending on where/who you are. Just my opinion.

Ok, after all the Nazi/facism/we-hate-foreigners nonsense that seems to be compulsory every time German opinion or politics is mentioned has been posted,

I don't know what would give you an idea like that. It seems to have been a discussion of great intelligence so far.

I'll just repeat what has been said above, looking at it from the UK point of view. I would firstly say that despite the fact it's often shoved down our throat most people don't really follow the minutia of American politics, and so we tend to 'like' candidates based on their party. And, like WYTYG said, much of what the Republicans believe is, to people here, simply crazy.

Go up to 100 British or German people on the street and ask them to name 10 policies of Obama, and they'd probably struggle. But they would probably still support him quite strongly over McCain.

The same can be said for most Americans about Europeans and a lot you all have going on over there. Two very different universes, which is why painting each with the same brush is a fallacy, in my opinion. Both sides need to realize this is how we do it over 'here', 'here' being Europe or America, depending on where/who you are. Just my opinion.

Oh, we realise that it's how you do it over 'there'. It's why we tend to prefer to stay over 'here'.

Meanwhile, over in France, they just hate both of them. :rolleyes: Damn Frenchies...

That's the french for ya. They'll hate anyone who isn't french. And most of the time they'll hate you then, too.

"Meanwhile, over in France, they just hate both of them."
Untrue. Quite a large faction of French are enchanted with Obama. In the lead up to the French elections last year, both candidates Nicolas Sarkozy (Conservative Party Leader) and Ségolene Royale (Socialist Party Leader) endorsed Barack Obama. The French people are reputed to love him. http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/06/europe/obamania.php

""He makes me dream," said Des-Gachons, whose parents came to France from Mali. "I even bought a T-shirt with the American flag. America is the country where you can make it."

That's right, kids. That was a Frenchman.

It's amusing how many of my Australian friends (yes, us Aussies are Obamowned too =P) have described themselves as sharing exactly the same political beliefs as Barack Obama, and then when I've went on to point out that he in fact supports the death penalty (which is extremely unpopular in all quarters of Australian politics) as well as protectionism, they reply "Oh, well, maybe there's *some* disagreements...". When I proceed to ask which of his policies they admire, the classic old "It's the vibe, your honour" line comes out. :D The man's as charismatic as they come!

Don't get me wrong... Personally, I think Obama's brilliant. I've been through his policies, and despite being slightly more authoritarian (yes, *authoritarian*, Australian politics is decidedly more liberal than American politics) and slightly too economically radical, I think he's a clever one with good vision. McCain wouldn't be too bad, all things considered, but he has some dangerous ideas on how to deal with Iran, and, with all due respect, he's an old, and I'm concerned he would struggle physically with a job as demanding as President of the United States.

Don't get me wrong... Personally, I think Obama's brilliant. I've been through his policies, and despite being slightly more authoritarian (yes, *authoritarian*, Australian politics is decidedly more liberal than American politics) and slightly too economically radical, I think he's a clever one with good vision. McCain wouldn't be too bad, all things considered, but he has some dangerous ideas on how to deal with Iran, and, with all due respect, he's an old, and I'm concerned he would struggle physically with a job as demanding as President of the United States.
Obama is a total copycat of Rudd, from the 'Iraq is bad, Afghanistan is good' to the meaningless slogans (Rudd - fresh leadership, Obama - change).

Obama is a total copycat of Rudd, from the 'Iraq is bad, Afghanistan is good' to the meaningless slogans (Rudd - fresh leadership, Obama - change).

And like Australia America will suffer from it. Don't vote for a man that has no substance and only deals with tabloid politics. USA you have been warned.

And like Australia America will suffer from it. Don't vote for a man that has no substance and only deals with tabloid politics. USA you have been warned.
Dude, where do you think that way of doing politics comes from? They've been doing it since FDR, they're used to it.

Personally, and I say this as a bit of a German myself, I think it's because Germans secretly don't want to hate America and just like the idea of Obama representing all the stuff that's being kept down by those damned stupid white men. Little do they realise that the things they don't like often aren't to be blamed on Bush at all, but are much more generally entrenched in US society and won't go away just because a black man happens to get elected.

Of course, protesting against Obama is more difficult than protesting against Bush, so I maintain some hope that the debates and the discourse will be a tad more calm and rational.

All that being said, in the German press they are well aware of Obama's shortcomings. They just don't matter to Otto Normalverbraucher as much as his skin colour does, and all the connotations that it brings.

Anyone hear about the birth certificate fake?

Meanwhile, over in France, they just hate both of them. :rolleyes: Damn Frenchies...

Odd, every French person I know loves Obama and I do mean everyone including someone who voted for Besançenot (head of the Communist Revolutionary League or LCR, very left wing) and someone who voted for Le Pen (head of the National Front, very right wing).

Because Obama is very Charismatic, and takes many views that are implemented in Europe right now?

Hmm? Are you one of those "Obama is a damned socialist!!111!!eleventyone" people?

"Meanwhile, over in France, they just hate both of them."
Untrue. Quite a large faction of French are enchanted with Obama. In the lead up to the French elections last year, both candidates Nicolas Sarkozy (Conservative Party Leader) and Ségolene Royale (Socialist Party Leader) endorsed Barack Obama. The French people are reputed to love him. http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/06/europe/obamania.php

""He makes me dream," said Des-Gachons, whose parents came to France from Mali. "I even bought a T-shirt with the American flag. America is the country where you can make it."

That's right, kids. That was a Frenchman.

Yes, yes, I was just joking around with the French thing. They love anyone who isn't at all associated with anything related to George Bush.

Still, don't you think it's sort of odd that he's so well loved abroad, in countries with slightly...socialist tendencies about so many issues? For the record, I'll vote for anyone not endorsed by Sarkozy.

(also, thank you to whoever changed the spelling of the title, it was bugging me)

Still, don't you think it's sort of odd that he's so well loved abroad, in countries with slightly...socialist tendencies about so many issues?

Why would that be odd? He's a bit further to the left than the previous administration, which would be seen as an improvement. More importantly, he represents a break with the current administrations policies (particularly foreign policies) while McCain is largely expected to follow many of the same.

This isn't necessarily directed at you, unless you were trying to imply something by that statement, but Obama is not at all a socialist. He's stated on many occasions that he supports the free market.

Oh, and I hate Sarko too. I was living in France during the elections in 2007 and I was really hoping Ségo would win.

Go up to 100 British or German people on the street and ask them to name 10 policies of Obama, and they'd probably struggle. But they would probably still support him quite strongly over McCain.

Your sincerity and dedication are charming. I certainly hope you have the courage to run your own countries as ethically.

Ok, after all the
And the thought of having a former priest or minister or whatever he used to be in politics is extremely alien to most Europeans. Separation of church and state over here is more like separation of faith and state. Religion and politics just don't mix.

Who are you talking about?

Obama is more religious than McCain, and neither of them have been ministers...

Who are you talking about?

Obama is more religious than McCain, and neither of them have been ministers...

Carter and the current Bush are born-again Christians. Of the two, Carter has taught Sunday school, but neither were ministers either.

*Wikis* Ohhhhhhhh. So it's sadism as an act?

It's the enjoyment of other people's misery.

Carter and the current Bush are born-again Christians. Of the two, Carter has taught Sunday school, but neither were ministers either.

Jimmy Carter???

Well, he's almost as left of center as Obama.