NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.govpro.com/News/Article/31439/

I'm seeing a general trend here. While some of the more liberal cities are certainly nice, most of them turn out to be complete ****holes. I'm pointing out that many of these cities have not had a Republican mayor in over 50 years and have are in their current shape with decades of unchallenged management by liberals (Detroit, Gary, etc.).

As for the conservative cities, they aren't the largest or most beautiful cities, but they seem to generally be better places to live.

Let's look at the Liberal cities:
Rank City State
1 Detroit Michigan: Complete ****hole. Outside of a few blocks in downtown you don't want to even think of going here at night.
2 Gary Indiana: I live 30 minutes from here and avoid this city at all costs. Miller Beach is the one portion of the city that is somewhat safe. Don't go out on Broadway at night if you want to live.
3 Berkeley California: This is one of the better cities on the list. It ranks high because Berkeley is the home of Cal.
4 Washington, D.C. Dist. of Columbia: ****hole once you leave Georgetown and the center of the city.
5 Oakland California: ****hole city once again. San Francisco and Berkeley are your better bets if you're living in the bay area.
6 Inglewood California: Definite ****hole
7 Newark New Jersey: ****hole once again (but then again isn't all of North Jersey?)
8 Cambridge Massachusetts: A very good place to live. Once again having a school like Harvard is probably why this city is on the list.
9 San Francisco California: A very beautiful city and a goodplace to live. (cost of living is a bitch though)
10 Flint Michigan: Total ****hole, but it the city is surprisingly better than it was a few years ago. It still is a bad place to live.
11 Cleveland Ohio: Mistake by the Lake, need I say more? If you're lucky you'll get to see the Cuyahoga River catch fire from your upper deck seats at the Jake, err I mean Progressive Field. Burn on, big river, burn on.
12 Hartford Connecticut: It isn't as crime ridden as others on the list, but the citys economy sucks. Don't move here if you're looking for a job.
13 Paterson New Jersey: I think this city's murder reputation says it all.
14 Baltimore Maryland: Don't stay out late after a game at Camden Yards
15 New Haven Connecticut: A very nice city. Having Yale's campus in the city boosts the number of liberal voters in the city. (Notice a trend here)
16 Seattle Washington: Once again this is one of the nicer cities. I don't think I'd have a problem living here.
17 Chicago Illinois: I love my city, but don't travel south of Roosevelt Road alone after dark if you want to live. Chicago is beautiful, but it is poorly mismanaged and the new city and county taxes are going to kill the city's economy. Todd Stroger will destroy this city.
18 Philadelphia Pennsylvania: Parts of the city are good. Other parts should be avoidedlike the plague.
19 Birmingham Alabama: Back-ass-ackwards southern city.
20 St. Louis Missouri: not too much to say.
21 New York New York: I have to say that the combo of Giuliani and Bloomberg have done a great job fixing what Dinkins and his predecessors did in their decades of mismanagement.
22 Providence Rhode Island: A nice quiet city
23 Minneapolis Minnesota: Priorities in this city are not very straight. Over a billion will be spent by the city and state on 3 new stadiums. Meanwhile the state and city are broke. This is why they need federal funds to repair bridges that they are supposed to fund.
24 Boston Massachusetts: Not a bad place
25 Buffalo New York: I don't know Buffalo well enough to comment.

Strange, that's not the correlation that the professional researchers noticed.

18 Philadelphia Pennsylvania: Parts of the city are good. Other parts should be avoidedlike the plague.

giggle* tell me about it. The plague doesn't even begin to cover it...

Strange, that's not the correlation that the professional researchers noticed.

Go figure ... you would have to be an idiot to take the above post as proof of anything

I take offense to the Minneapolis comment. We have had funding rpoblems for years before there was talk about new stadiums.

http://www.govpro.com/News/Article/31439/

I'm seeing a general trend here. While some of the more liberal cities are certainly nice, most of them turn out to be complete ****holes. I'm pointing out that many of these cities have not had a Republican mayor in over 50 years and have are in their current shape with decades of unchallenged management by liberals (Detroit, Gary, etc.).

As for the conservative cities, they aren't the largest or most beautiful cities, but they seem to generally be better places to live.

Let's look at the Liberal cities:
Rank City State
1 Detroit Michigan: Complete ****hole. Outside of a few blocks in downtown you don't want to even think of going here at night.
2 Gary Indiana: I live 30 minutes from here and avoid this city at all costs. Miller Beach is the one portion of the city that is somewhat safe. Don't go out on Broadway at night if you want to live.
3 Berkeley California: This is one of the better cities on the list. It ranks high because Berkeley is the home of Cal.
4 Washington, D.C. Dist. of Columbia: ****hole once you leave Georgetown and the center of the city.
5 Oakland California: ****hole city once again. San Francisco and Berkeley are your better bets if you're living in the bay area.
6 Inglewood California: Definite ****hole
7 Newark New Jersey: ****hole once again (but then again isn't all of North Jersey?)
8 Cambridge Massachusetts: A very good place to live. Once again having a school like Harvard is probably why this city is on the list.
9 San Francisco California: A very beautiful city and a goodplace to live. (cost of living is a bitch though)
10 Flint Michigan: Total ****hole, but it the city is surprisingly better than it was a few years ago. It still is a bad place to live.
11 Cleveland Ohio: Mistake by the Lake, need I say more? If you're lucky you'll get to see the Cuyahoga River catch fire from your upper deck seats at the Jake, err I mean Progressive Field. Burn on, big river, burn on.
12 Hartford Connecticut: It isn't as crime ridden as others on the list, but the citys economy sucks. Don't move here if you're looking for a job.
13 Paterson New Jersey: I think this city's murder reputation says it all.
14 Baltimore Maryland: Don't stay out late after a game at Camden Yards
15 New Haven Connecticut: A very nice city. Having Yale's campus in the city boosts the number of liberal voters in the city. (Notice a trend here)
16 Seattle Washington: Once again this is one of the nicer cities. I don't think I'd have a problem living here.
17 Chicago Illinois: I love my city, but don't travel south of Roosevelt Road alone after dark if you want to live. Chicago is beautiful, but it is poorly mismanaged and the new city and county taxes are going to kill the city's economy. Todd Stroger will destroy this city.
18 Philadelphia Pennsylvania: Parts of the city are good. Other parts should be avoidedlike the plague.
19 Birmingham Alabama: Back-ass-ackwards southern city.
20 St. Louis Missouri: not too much to say.
21 New York New York: I have to say that the combo of Giuliani and Bloomberg have done a great job fixing what Dinkins and his predecessors did in their decades of mismanagement.
22 Providence Rhode Island: A nice quiet city
23 Minneapolis Minnesota: Priorities in this city are not very straight. Over a billion will be spent by the city and state on 3 new stadiums. Meanwhile the state and city are broke. This is why they need federal funds to repair bridges that they are supposed to fund.
24 Boston Massachusetts: Not a bad place
25 Buffalo New York: I don't know Buffalo well enough to comment.

The difference? There aren't poor blacks where the Republicans live. Well poor people, or blacks in general. So instead of blaming liberals, you now know who to blame.:rolleyes:

Ah I see...

*Consults List of places to visit*

Ah ha!

*Crosses the USA off the list*

I remember seeing the full list when this study came out three years ago. Bullshit, I say. How the hell do they rank Dallas as more liberal than Austin

dude, they made a list based only on presidential voting in the 2004 election. that's fucking stupid.

Detroit is a shithole...it's where the weak are killed and eaten.

An amusing anecdote...

One of my good friends was staying in an apartment in Detroit, he was asleep on the couch, and was woken up by knocking on the door. He answers it, and finds a good dozen cops standing in the door, and they promptly inform him that they are there because the next door neighbor has been tagged as a dealer. They ask politely if they might come in to the apartment, and my friend doesn't see why not.

The cops come in, walk up to the wall and proceed to knock on the wall. They shout "Police! Open up!". When the neighbor doesn't open the wall, they proceed to go through the wall.

Yikes.

dude, they made a list based only on presidential voting in the 2004 election. that's fucking stupid.

we all know that voting democratic = liberal, amirite?

Shouldn't America's most liberal city lie in some Banana Republic?

Detroit is a shithole...it's where the weak are killed and eaten.

An amusing anecdote...

One of my good friends was staying in an apartment in Detroit, he was asleep on the couch, and was woken up by knocking on the door. He answers it, and finds a good dozen cops standing in the door, and they promptly inform him that they are there because the next door neighbor has been tagged as a dealer. They ask politely if they might come in to the apartment, and my friend doesn't see why not.

The cops come in, walk up to the wall and proceed to knock on the wall. They shout "Police! Open up!". When the neighbor doesn't open the wall, they proceed to go through the wall.

Yikes.

This would have been an equally awesome story if he had opened the wall somehow.

I'm fairly sure that the majority of the population of the listed cities acknowleges that the US government has authority over them, pays their taxes and has liscence plates on their cars. I'm also fairly sure their city council meetings dont exude lots of smoke which causes local birdlife to fly sideways and have sudden cravings for chips.
Clearly they didnt bother checking out any coastal cities in Oregon.

we all know that voting democratic = liberal, amirite?

totally!

lol Democrat =/= Liberal, Republican =/= Conservative.

However the same data can be use to justify a correlation between the living standards of a city and their approval rating for George W Bush. It is unfortunate that correlation =/= causation.

Hell, if you really want to play the correlation game...

http://www.gulbransen.net/images/blog/2004ElectionIQ.png

Look how dumb Republicans are!

Hell, if you really want to play the correlation game...
*snip the funniest graph I've ever seen*

Look how dumb Republicans are!

You owe me a new keyboard.

25 Buffalo New York: I don't know Buffalo well enough to comment.

I live there, and yes parts suck a lot, and yes, the democrats have pretty much run the place into the ground, there hasn't been a republican mayor since before iI was born, I don't know about before then, but I've heard 50 years before. But there are still nice parts (mostly inhabited by stubborn republicans who haven't moved to Amherst yet.)

also, just curious because they're not far from here, why IS cleveland the mistake on the lake? (obviously they're on lake Erie, but why was it such a mistake)

also, just curious because they're not far from here, why IS cleveland the mistake on the lake? (obviously they're on lake Erie, but why was it such a mistake)

Because Ohio is crap?

No commentary for the conservative ones, OP?

1 Provo Utah
2 Lubbock Texas
3 Abilene Texas
4 Hialeah Florida
5 Plano Texas
6 Colorado Springs Colorado
7 Gilbert Arizona
8 Bakersfield California
9 Lafayette Louisiana
10 Orange California
11 Escondido California
12 Allentown Pennsylvania
13 Mesa Arizona
14 Arlington Texas
15 Peoria Arizona
16 Cape Coral Florida
17 Garden Grove California
18 Simi Valley California
19 Corona California
20 Clearwater Florida
21 West Valley City Utah
22 Oklahoma City Oklahoma
23 Overland Park Kansas
24 Anchorage Alaska
25 Huntington Beach California

Because Ohio is crap?

No, because Cleveland is crap.

I have a friend who lives in the Dayton area, and that area seems pretty nice to me.

also, just curious because they're not far from here, why IS cleveland the mistake on the lake? (obviously they're on lake Erie, but why was it such a mistake)

That's just an old nickname for the city of Cleveland. It still rings true today. I mean have you ever heard of another city where a whole fucking river became combustible. Randy Newman even wrote a song about the Cuyahoga River catching on fire. It ended up being the opening song for the movie "Major League." (which was ironically filmed in Milwaukee at County Stadium)

No commentary for the conservative ones, OP?

1 Provo Utah
2 Lubbock Texas
3 Abilene Texas
4 Hialeah Florida
5 Plano Texas
6 Colorado Springs Colorado
7 Gilbert Arizona
8 Bakersfield California
9 Lafayette Louisiana
10 Orange California
11 Escondido California
12 Allentown Pennsylvania
13 Mesa Arizona
14 Arlington Texas
15 Peoria Arizona
16 Cape Coral Florida
17 Garden Grove California
18 Simi Valley California
19 Corona California
20 Clearwater Florida
21 West Valley City Utah
22 Oklahoma City Oklahoma
23 Overland Park Kansas
24 Anchorage Alaska
25 Huntington Beach California
What's there to say? Most of them are anonymous mid-sized cities that are relatively safe (especially when compared to some on the other list).

Ever occur to anyone that the reason liberal cities tend to be minority and poor is because minorities and poor tend to vote for the people who at least seem to notice them? Once a city becomes wealthy and white, the right takes over. Just a thought.

3 Berkeley California: This is one of the better cities on the list. It ranks high because Berkeley is the home of Cal.
5 Oakland California: ****hole city once again. San Francisco and Berkeley are your better bets if you're living in the bay area.
9 San Francisco California: A very beautiful city and a goodplace to live. (cost of living is a bitch though)
19 Birmingham Alabama: Back-ass-ackwards southern city.
25 Buffalo New York: I don't know Buffalo well enough to comment.

I can't believe Santa Cruz didn't make the top 25. Maybe there was a population threshold.

3. Berkeley: Not just because of Cal. In fact, Cal is getting more "conservative" in my estimation. The residents of the city are likely more liberal. Plus all the good folks down at People's Park and the free clinic.

5. There are some really beautiful parts of Oakland--Rockridge is nice, and Piedmont is beautiful, but also more conservative. Not a surprise that Oakland's so high up there, though, considering it gave birth to the Black Panthers and it's the unofficial lesbian capital of the country.

9. I'm sad to see it dropped so low! Damn gentrification. And the Sunset. And being able to walk through the Mission these days without getting shot by a crackhead (most of the time).

19. They can't be that backward if they're that liberal? I dunno, I stay away from the South.

25. Seriously? Man. Good on ya, Buffalo.

No commentary for the conservative ones, OP?

1 Provo Utah
2 Lubbock Texas
3 Abilene Texas
4 Hialeah Florida
5 Plano Texas
6 Colorado Springs Colorado
7 Gilbert Arizona
8 Bakersfield California
9 Lafayette Louisiana
10 Orange California
11 Escondido California
12 Allentown Pennsylvania
13 Mesa Arizona
14 Arlington Texas
15 Peoria Arizona
16 Cape Coral Florida
17 Garden Grove California
18 Simi Valley California
19 Corona California
20 Clearwater Florida
21 West Valley City Utah
22 Oklahoma City Oklahoma
23 Overland Park Kansas
24 Anchorage Alaska
25 Huntington Beach CaliforniaI can tell you first hand that Lubbock, Abilene and Oklahoma City are shitholes. Especially OKC.

I remember seeing the full list when this study came out three years ago. Bullshit, I say. How the hell do they rank Dallas as more liberal than Austin

That is extremely wrong. Maybe a lot of Austin didn't vote, y'know, in protest of having shit candidates.

Hell, if you really want to play the correlation game...

Look how dumb Republicans are!

I am calling shennanigans. There is no fucking way New Jersey is smarter than California, even taking Bakersfield and Chico into consideration.

No commentary for the conservative ones, OP?

8 Bakersfield California
10 Orange California


Bakersfield is the asshole of the West Coast. Orange is just full of assholes.

No commentary for the conservative ones, OP?
23 Overland Park Kansas


I live in a city very close to Overland Park. It is safe, well off, and all around nice place to live. This area of Kansas is very, very nice.

And why do people think just about anyplace in Texas (though I love Austin) is a peachy place to live? Overall it has more people living below poverty level than forty some odd other states. Mostly the state sucks if you aren't white and wealthy. Even more than other places suck if you're of color or poor.

No, because Cleveland is crap.

I have a friend who lives in the Dayton area, and that area seems pretty nice to me.

Good Lord, southwestern Ohio compared to the rest of the state is like the difference between East and West Germany...I've lived in both, and I damn well know I'm never coming back to the Mistake on the Lake again.

http://www.govpro.com/News/Article/31439/

I'm seeing a general trend here. While some of the more liberal cities are certainly nice, most of them turn out to be complete ****holes. I'm pointing out that many of these cities have not had a Republican mayor in over 50 years and have are in their current shape with decades of unchallenged management by liberals (Detroit, Gary, etc.).

As for the conservative cities, they aren't the largest or most beautiful cities, but they seem to generally be better places to live.

Let's look at the Liberal cities:
Rank City State
1 Detroit Michigan: Complete ****hole. Outside of a few blocks in downtown you don't want to even think of going here at night.
10 Flint Michigan: Total ****hole, but it the city is surprisingly better than it was a few years ago. It still is a bad place to live.

:soap:

Oh that's it. I am so tired of my state getting such a bad rap. Don't you know that we here in Michigan have feelings? And guns. Lots of guns and gangs and knives. Don't forget the drugs either. We're all unemployed because free trade raped the manufacturing sector (which MIGHT have something to do with the decline of our urban centers) and have nothing better to do, so we have half a mind to march right on over and throw down.

And don't be such a wuss. I've been to Detroit at night and haven't been shot. In fact, I had a great time. We've got culture and history! And good sports teams! So there!

Jerk.

Ok, carry on. Sorry for this random 2am outburst. =P

:soap:

Oh that's it. I am so tired of my state getting such a bad rap. Don't you know that we here in Michigan have feelings? And guns. Lots of guns and gangs and knives. Don't forget the drugs either. We're all unemployed because free trade raped the manufacturing sector (which MIGHT have something to do with the decline of our urban centers) and have nothing better to do, so we have half a mind to march right on over and throw down.

And don't be such a wuss. I've been to Detroit at night and haven't been shot. In fact, I had a great time. We've got culture and history! And good sports teams! So there!

Jerk.

Ok, carry on. Sorry for this random 2am outburst. =P

Nah, nah, see, we're way up north, so we're supposed to just consider ourselves to be better to the point where their insults can't reach us.

Nah, nah, see, we're way up north, so we're supposed to just consider ourselves to be better to the point where their insults can't reach us.

I like your thinking. We'll just go chill with Canada.

http://www.govpro.com/News/Article/31439/

I'm seeing a general trend here. While some of the more liberal cities are certainly nice, most of them turn out to be complete ****holes. I'm pointing out that many of these cities have not had a Republican mayor in over 50 years and have are in their current shape with decades of unchallenged management by liberals (Detroit, Gary, etc.).

As for the conservative cities, they aren't the largest or most beautiful cities, but they seem to generally be better places to live.

Let's look at the Liberal cities:
Rank City State
1 Detroit Michigan: Complete ****hole. Outside of a few blocks in downtown you don't want to even think of going here at night.
2 Gary Indiana: I live 30 minutes from here and avoid this city at all costs. Miller Beach is the one portion of the city that is somewhat safe. Don't go out on Broadway at night if you want to live.

Kind of a "meh" OP until this statement alerts my FullaShit detector:

3 Berkeley California: This is one of the better cities on the list. It ranks high because Berkeley is the home of Cal.

That's the only reason? The presence of a university? Baltimore has Johns Hopkins, and yet you claim to know it belongs on this list why? Because you once went to a game at Camden Yard and got scared walking back to your car? I don't think you've been to more than an airport in many of these cities, and your commentary is all the proof I need.

4 Washington, D.C. Dist. of Columbia: ****hole once you leave Georgetown and the center of the city.
5 Oakland California: ****hole city once again. San Francisco and Berkeley are your better bets if you're living in the bay area.
6 Inglewood California: Definite ****hole
7 Newark New Jersey: ****hole once again (but then again isn't all of North Jersey?)

I don't know, and neither do you. Your arrogant speculation is really kinda tiresome. On top of that, a quick Googling found that CNN/Money Magazine listed a city in northern New Jersey, Franklin Township (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2008/snapshots/CS3424900.html), as #6 in their list of the best small cities to live in for 2008.

8 Cambridge Massachusetts: A very good place to live. Once again having a school like Harvard is probably why this city is on the list.
9 San Francisco California: A very beautiful city and a good place to live. (cost of living is a bitch though)

And yet there are places in SF you might not want to be in after dark, either. Visitacion Valley, Bayview, and perhaps the Tenderloin and a couple parts of the Market and Mission.

10 Flint Michigan: Total ****hole, but it the city is surprisingly better than it was a few years ago. It still is a bad place to live.
11 Cleveland Ohio: Mistake by the Lake, need I say more? If you're lucky you'll get to see the Cuyahoga River catch fire from your upper deck seats at the Jake, err I mean Progressive Field. Burn on, big river, burn on.

For the love of all that's holy will you please stop yammering about places you know nothing about? Unless you're over 39, you weren't alive the last time it caught fire (1969). It isn't pristine now, but water quality has improved since the end of the fire era (1936-1969). To use it as a means to disparage Cleveland almost 40 years later bespeaks a deliberate ignorance. Cleveland also has one of the nation's best symphonies and Case Western Reserve University.

12 Hartford Connecticut: It isn't as crime ridden as others on the list, but the citys economy sucks. Don't move here if you're looking for a job.
13 Paterson New Jersey: I think this city's murder reputation says it all.
14 Baltimore Maryland: Don't stay out late after a game at Camden Yards

Again, Johns Hopkins and the Peabody Conservatory of Music. The Inner Harbor. The fact that you don't bother to mention these things and instead seem to focus on baseball stadiums tells me even more about your opinions. Mostly that they aren't worth very much.

15 New Haven Connecticut: A very nice city. Having Yale's campus in the city boosts the number of liberal voters in the city. (Notice a trend here)

Really? Then why did my brother, who lives in Pawcatuck, Connecticut worry about the safety of his car when we left it in New Haven to get to NYC by train from there? He's been there many times and sees it like most cities -- good neighborhoods and bad ones. Your generalizations are no more helpful to a unification of my country's people than they are to the political process. It makes me wonder what your problem is.

16 Seattle Washington: Once again this is one of the nicer cities. I don't think I'd have a problem living here.

So long as you don't choose Pioneer Square or points south after dark. White Center and Shoreline/Aurora Ave. are sketchy, too. If you don't know what you're talking about, sir, I'd look into not talking.

17 Chicago Illinois: I love my city, but don't travel south of Roosevelt Road alone after dark if you want to live. Chicago is beautiful, but it is poorly mismanaged and the new city and county taxes are going to kill the city's economy. Todd Stroger will destroy this city.

Clearly, you live here. I'll accept that via the benefit of the doubt that you'd lie about that and concede to your knowledge of the place.

18 Philadelphia Pennsylvania: Parts of the city are good. Other parts should be avoidedlike the plague.

Wow, like any other city of appreciable size. Amazing.

19 Birmingham Alabama: Back-ass-ackwards southern city.

And yet Randy Newman wrote a song about this place too, but this time in praise, calling it "the greatest city in Alabam' " (for the rhyme).

20 St. Louis Missouri: not too much to say.

Because you don't know anything about the place? Ever been there beyond the airport?

21 New York New York: I have to say that the combo of Giuliani and Bloomberg have done a great job fixing what Dinkins and his predecessors did in their decades of mismanagement.
22 Providence Rhode Island: A nice quiet city
23 Minneapolis Minnesota: Priorities in this city are not very straight. Over a billion will be spent by the city and state on 3 new stadiums. Meanwhile the state and city are broke. This is why they need federal funds to repair bridges that they are supposed to fund.

The greater Minneapolis-St. Paul area has some of the best public schools in the country. Are you saying that this place is the only city/state to ever fund stadiums? Come on, man, you need to reach in order to invent fake tirades for this post, and yet you didn't even bother on this one.

24 Boston Massachusetts: Not a bad place.

Boston? Massachusetts? "Not a bad place." Okay, so we could drop you off in any neighborhood there and you'd be fine. Anyone on NSG from Boston want to disabuse him of that notion? I'm not looking to run the city down, but Mission Hill/Mission Park (Northeastern U), Dorchester, Roxbury, Jamaica Plain, The Orange Line -- all places I was told to avoid at night when I went there a few years back.

25 Buffalo New York: I don't know Buffalo well enough to comment.

I put it to you that this last statement of yours applies to far more than just Buffalo (I've never been, but I've got friends in Angola who'd know if I asked them). Point is, you're trying to make some kind of conservatively-spun point about cities, and it took someone else to post the so-called conservative cities for comparison. That's disingenuous enough, but then to rattle off your lordly opinions of the list you did post and have many of them be wildly inaccurate while trying to sound knowledgeable? Weak sauce.

No commentary for the conservative ones, OP?

1 Provo Utah
2 Lubbock Texas
3 Abilene Texas
4 Hialeah Florida
5 Plano Texas
6 Colorado Springs Colorado
7 Gilbert Arizona
8 Bakersfield California
9 Lafayette Louisiana
10 Orange California
11 Escondido California
12 Allentown Pennsylvania
13 Mesa Arizona
14 Arlington Texas
15 Peoria Arizona
16 Cape Coral Florida
17 Garden Grove California
18 Simi Valley California
19 Corona California
20 Clearwater Florida
21 West Valley City Utah
22 Oklahoma City Oklahoma
23 Overland Park Kansas
24 Anchorage Alaska
25 Huntington Beach California

Of course no comment from the OP. He'd be forced to admit that only OKC is really a city and not a suburb. Anchorage isn't a 'burb, but it's not exactly a metropolis, either.

No, because Cleveland is crap.

I have a friend who lives in the Dayton area, and that area seems pretty nice to me.

So long as you don't need a job that pays well.

That's just an old nickname for the city of Cleveland. It still rings true today. I mean have you ever heard of another city where a whole fucking river became combustible. Randy Newman even wrote a song about the Cuyahoga River catching on fire. It ended up being the opening song for the movie "Major League." (which was ironically filmed in Milwaukee at County Stadium)

Twenty years ago.

At least three other US rivers have caught on fire, by the way. The Rouge river (Detroit), the Schuylkill (Philadelphia), and the Patapsco (Baltimore).

I can't believe Santa Cruz didn't make the top 25. Maybe there was a population threshold.

3. Berkeley: Not just because of Cal. In fact, Cal is getting more "conservative" in my estimation. The residents of the city are likely more liberal. Plus all the good folks down at People's Park and the free clinic.

5. There are some really beautiful parts of Oakland--Rockridge is nice, and Piedmont is beautiful, but also more conservative. Not a surprise that Oakland's so high up there, though, considering it gave birth to the Black Panthers and it's the unofficial lesbian capital of the country.

9. I'm sad to see it dropped so low! Damn gentrification. And the Sunset. And being able to walk through the Mission these days without getting shot by a crackhead (most of the time).

19. They can't be that backward if they're that liberal? I dunno, I stay away from the South.

25. Seriously? Man. Good on ya, Buffalo.

So every city has its good and bad points, regardless of who the mayor is? Wow. See, HMY, we can all use common sense, if we choose to.

Blue collar places tend to be liberal. When the manufacturing base leaves, blue collar places often turn into shitholes due to the major sources of jobs being suddenly absent.

It's more complicated, and yet more simple than your silly "liberal politics make cities into shitholes, except for oh by the way BERKELEY and SAN FRANCISCO California, two of the most liberal cities in the entire NATION" idea.

Utah. Period.

While I'm not thrilled about my tax dollars going to build stadiums for billionaires(although the things I'm not thrilled about my tax dollars being used for is a long list, not to mention an entirely different post)what annoys me the most about Minneapolis is the artsy-fartsy pseudo-bohemian crowd's desperate delusion that at any time Minneapolis is going to replace New York or Chicago as cultural centers of the country.

Oh that's it. I am so tired of my state getting such a bad rap. Don't you know that we here in Michigan have feelings? And guns. Lots of guns and gangs and knives. Don't forget the drugs either. We're all unemployed because free trade raped the manufacturing sector (which MIGHT have something to do with the decline of our urban centers) and have nothing better to do, so we have half a mind to march right on over and throw down.

No, it's because you guys make shitty cars that nobody has really wanted for 30 years.

(Oh, and we beat you handily in football)

(Oh, and we beat you handily in football)

Only recently. We're still up in the overall series.

No commentary for the conservative ones, OP?

1 Provo Utah
2 Lubbock Texas
3 Abilene Texas
4 Hialeah Florida
5 Plano Texas
6 Colorado Springs Colorado
7 Gilbert Arizona
8 Bakersfield California
9 Lafayette Louisiana
10 Orange California
11 Escondido California
12 Allentown Pennsylvania
13 Mesa Arizona
14 Arlington Texas
15 Peoria Arizona
16 Cape Coral Florida
17 Garden Grove California
18 Simi Valley California
19 Corona California
20 Clearwater Florida
21 West Valley City Utah
22 Oklahoma City Oklahoma
23 Overland Park Kansas
24 Anchorage Alaska
25 Huntington Beach California

3. Abilene - Literally a bunch of motels grouped together with a bunch of 18 wheelers in the middle.
5. Plano - It has some nice golf courses.
22. Oklahoma City - Pretty boring, a couple streets you don't want to be on late at night. Even Bricktown is only semi-decent. Only good part is the art museum.
23. Overland Park - It's in Kansas so a) It's flat and b) It sucks

23. Overland Park - It's in Kansas so a) It's flat and b) It sucks

Okay, this is the same kind of generalization horseshit the OP was spouting. I see that you're trying to counter it, but you don't do that effectively when you use the same fail-based tactics as your opponent. Have you been to all of Kansas? Also, is "it sucks" based on anything besides your opinion of what everywhere should be like? What's wrong with "flat"? In a geologically varied world, SOMEplace has to be flat. It makes agriculture and road-building easier.

I dunno, it just seems silly to try and counter ignorance with ignorance, that's all.

Remember, you're trying (in another thread) to get a point across about wasteful driving habits. You didn't resort to "ad statem" attacks there, and you've fought against simplistic arguments in that thread with reason and relative patience.

3. Abilene - Literally a bunch of motels grouped together with a bunch of 18 wheelers in the middle.
5. Plano - It has some nice golf courses.
22. Oklahoma City - Pretty boring, a couple streets you don't want to be on late at night. Even Bricktown is only semi-decent. Only good part is the art museum.
23. Overland Park - It's in Kansas so a) It's flat and b) It sucks

Don't forget Colorado Springs, which is a very military town. Peterson AFB, Fort Carson, NORAD, and the Air Force Academy are all in town. I was stationed at Carson for about 6 months, and while Carson was a great post I really wasn't all that thrilled with the Springs.

Have you been to all of Kansas? Also, is "it sucks" based on anything besides your opinion of what everywhere should be like? What's wrong with "flat"? In a geologically varied world, SOMEplace has to be flat. It makes agriculture and road-building easier.

I will attest that Dodge City, Kansas and various surrounding towns no one hear has likely heard of ARE very flat, and they DO suck. I cannot speak for all of Kansas, but I can confidently assure you that the small part of Kansas I have been to sucks hugely. I have no idea whether or not this has to do with being flat. I have heard that Saskatchewan is flat and sucks in a similar way, but correlation =/= causation as we all very well know.

Interesting how many California cities were in the list of conservative cities...very interesting indeed...

23. Overland Park - It's in Kansas so a) It's flat and b) It sucks

What a bunch of horseshit!

There are plenty of damn hills in Eastern Kansas, fool!

Learn your damn geography. Western Kansas gets really flat. Eastern Kansas is quite hilly in areas.

No commentary for the conservative ones, OP?

4 Hialeah Florida
16 Cape Coral Florida
20 Clearwater Florida


No one has done the cities from Florida, so, being a Floridian, I'll do my part.
Hialeah- I wouldn't really consider Hialeah a city, its more a suburb. Their schools (even relative to Miami standards) are, at best, moderate. Also, they really have no skyline. I feel relatively safe in Hialeah (I can drive around there at night making deliveries for my grandfather's factory without a problem), but many of the houses are very small and have bars over the windows, which isn't at all necessary because crime isn't really a problem there. It just makes it feel worse then it is.
Cape Coral- There's some nice coastline here, but its filled mostly with old retired people. Their nightlife suffers as a result.
Clearwater- Clearwater has an excellent public transportation system, which makes me surprised that it ended up as one of the most Conservative cities. It also has some pretty nice coastline. There's not as many old retired people here, but there's many more living in poverty. I also noticed that there seems to be more middle age people here.

I will attest that Dodge City, Kansas and various surrounding towns no one hear has likely heard of ARE very flat, and they DO suck. I cannot speak for all of Kansas, but I can confidently assure you that the small part of Kansas I have been to sucks hugely. I have no idea whether or not this has to do with being flat. I have heard that Saskatchewan is flat and sucks in a similar way, but correlation =/= causation as we all very well know.

Not the point, but thanks for your input.

Some parts of all large areas will "suck" in someone's opinion. "Suck" is a relative term, anyway. The point was using partisan generalizations to oppose a partisan generalization is unwise.

*waves Canadian flag around*

Ah I see...

*Consults List of places to visit*

Ah ha!

*Crosses the USA off the list*
You evil Arabic-Commie-atheist-Muslim-liberal! :p:)

I feel relatively safe in Hialeah (I can drive around there at night making deliveries for my grandfather's factory without a problem)
What sort of fucked up cities are too dangerous to drive around?

Detroit is a shithole...it's where the weak are killed and eaten.


Lol, I had a t-shirt that said that.

No commentary for the conservative ones, OP?

1 Provo Utah - Quiet Mormon town, the Republicanism can be based on the religious nature of the citizenry.
2 Lubbock Texas - SHITHOLE. Also home of Texas Tech.
3 Abilene Texas - SHITHOLE.
4 Hialeah Florida - Cuban suburb of Miami. The Republican slant can be determined by the fact that the city is a suburb, and filled with anti-castro cubans.
5 Plano Texas - Suburb of Dallas. They left all their poor people to die in the city.
6 Colorado Springs Colorado - Air Force Academy home, and home of Focus on the family.
7 Gilbert Arizona - Suburb of Phoenix. They left all their poor people to die in the city.
8 Bakersfield California - Dirty. I'm scared of the truck stop in Bakersfield. It's whore-filled.
9 Lafayette Louisiana - Not enough experience.
10 Orange California - Suburb of Los Angeles. They left all their poor people to die in the city.
11 Escondido California - Suburb of Los Angeles. They left all their poor people to die in the city.
12 Allentown Pennsylvania
13 Mesa Arizona - Suburb of Phoenix. They left all their poor people to die in the city.
14 Arlington Texas - Suburb of Dallas. They left all their poor people to die in the city.
15 Peoria Arizona - Suburb of Phoenix. They left all their poor people to die in the city.
16 Cape Coral Florida
17 Garden Grove California - Suburb of Los Angeles. They left all their poor people to die in the city.
18 Simi Valley California - Suburb of Los Angeles. They left all their poor people to die in the city.
19 Corona California - Suburb of Los Angeles. They left all their poor people to die in the city.
20 Clearwater Florida - Home of Scientology. FAIL.
21 West Valley City Utah - See Provo, + Suburb of S.L.C.
22 Oklahoma City Oklahoma - FAIL. If you're going to call Birmingham a shithole, OKC's an open sewer covered in maggots.
23 Overland Park Kansas - Suburb of K.C., Missouri. They left all their poor people to die in the city.
24 Anchorage Alaska
25 Huntington Beach California - Suburb of Los Angeles. They left all their poor people to die in the city.

Notice a trend?

What sort of fucked up cities are too dangerous to drive around?

There are parts of Detroit that one would want to avoid if said one was White.

There are parts of Detroit that one would want to avoid if said one was White.

It's too bad it's shrinking. We'll have to find a new city to represent the standard unit of scuminess.

(Actually, that's a pretty good idea. If you want to give a rough impression of the general pleasantness of a city, just measure it in Detroits: "it was 0.56 Detroits" or "it was 21 milliDetroits.")

For the love of all that's holy will you please stop yammering about places you know nothing about? Unless you're over 39, you weren't alive the last time it caught fire (1969). It isn't pristine now, but water quality has improved since the end of the fire era (1936-1969). To use it as a means to disparage Cleveland almost 40 years later bespeaks a deliberate ignorance. Cleveland also has one of the nation's best symphonies and Case Western Reserve University.


Thank you. Cleveland is not the mistake on the lake. It may have its fair share of problems, but the surrounding suburbs are a very nice place to live. And not to mention, we also have the Rock hall, the Cleveland Clinic, the Cleveland Orchestra, Case Western, ect.

To the OP: It's JACOBS FIELD. Whoever told you it was Progressive Field is a liar and should be castrated. :mad:

It's too bad it's shrinking. We'll have to find a new city to represent the standard unit of scuminess.

(Actually, that's a pretty good idea. If you want to give a rough impression of the general pleasantness of a city, just measure it in Detroits: "it was 0.56 Detroits" or "it was 21 milliDetroits.")

With luck it will shrink to nonexistence.

Hell, if you really want to play the correlation game...

*snipped chart*

Look how dumb Republicans are!Sigh... I sure hope you were being ironic...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp

Notice a trend?Is every city in California "a suburb of Los Angeles"? Because as a native of the state it sure doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about.

Sigh... I sure hope you were being ironic...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp

I was going for making a post that was about as intelligent as the OP, you see. ;)

Is every city in California "a suburb of Los Angeles"?

Um. Yes?

I was going for making a post that was about as intelligent as the OP, you see. ;)Ah, I guess that makes sense. =P

Is every city in California "a suburb of Los Angeles"? Because as a native of the state it sure doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about.

Bakersfield was on the list and I didn't deride it as a suburb of Los Angeles.

But if you're in Los Angeles or Orange County and aren't a city named Anaheim or Los Angeles, you're a suburb.

Is every city in California "a suburb of Los Angeles"? Because as a native of the state it sure doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about.

Lot 'o that goin' around in this thread.

Bakersfield was on the list and I didn't deride it as a suburb of Los Angeles.

But if you're in Los Angeles or Orange County and aren't a city named Anaheim or Los Angeles, you're a suburb.*rolls eyes* So, you don't know what you're talking about? Got it.

edit: as a point of reference, Escondido is in San Diego County, Simi is in Ventura County, Corona is in Riverside County, and the metro city in Orange City is Santa Ana, not Anaheim.

*rolls eyes* So, you don't know what you're talking about? Got it.

edit: as a point of reference, Escondido is in San Diego County, Simi is in Ventura County, Corona is in Riverside County, and the metro city in Orange City is Santa Ana, not Anaheim.

I knew Corona as being next to Pomona which I remembered as being in Los Angeles County (At least the part where I had to go was. I think if you went far enough East on Holt you ended up in S. Bernadino County.)

Simi Valley: So are you going to refute my statement that it's a suburb of Los Angeles?

Any City mentioned in Orange County: So are you going to refute my statement that it's a suburb of Los Angeles?

Escondido: Sorry. I thought Escondido was far South O.C., near the border checkpoint on I-5 for some reason.

Okay, this is the same kind of generalization horseshit the OP was spouting. I see that you're trying to counter it, but you don't do that effectively when you use the same fail-based tactics as your opponent. Have you been to all of Kansas? Also, is "it sucks" based on anything besides your opinion of what everywhere should be like? What's wrong with "flat"? In a geologically varied world, SOMEplace has to be flat. It makes agriculture and road-building easier.

I dunno, it just seems silly to try and counter ignorance with ignorance, that's all.

Remember, you're trying (in another thread) to get a point across about wasteful driving habits. You didn't resort to "ad statem" attacks there, and you've fought against simplistic arguments in that thread with reason and relative patience.

It was satire, but such subtle things can be difficult to convey in text. On the other hand, I have seen much of Kansas, and I can say that the Western half is FLAT. We generally turn south about halfway through, so I'm not going to honestly claim that all of it is flat, but a lot of it certainly is.

Furthermore, seeing as Kansas is very close to where I live, and it's of similar political and cultural climate, I feel pretty confident saying that the place probably is really boring and lacking anything that interests me, but of course I could be wrong.

By the way, last time I went to Abilene (which was 8 or 9 years ago), it really did seem like a bunch of motels in the middle of nowhere.

I knew Corona as being next to Pomona which I remembered as being in Los Angeles County (At least the part where I had to go was. I think if you went far enough East on Holt you ended up in S. Bernadino County.)

Simi Valley: So are you going to refute my statement that it's a suburb of Los Angeles?

Any City mentioned in Orange County: So are you going to refute my statement that it's a suburb of Los Angeles?

Escondido: Sorry. I thought Escondido was far South O.C., near the border checkpoint on I-5 for some reason.If it's so important to you, no, none of those cities is considered a "suburb of Los Angeles." At least not locally. And no one says "O.C." It ain't a TV show. =P

But really, your ignorance and prejudice toward suburbanites ("THEY LEFT THEIR POOR TO DIE IN THE CITY!!!") is what's offensive about your post; that you consider everything south of Bakersfield an offshoot of L.A. is simply proof of your ignorance.

But really, your ignorance and prejudice toward suburbanites ("THEY LEFT THEIR POOR TO DIE IN THE CITY!!!") is what's offensive about your post; that you consider everything south of Bakersfield an offshoot of L.A. is simply proof of your ignorance.

To be fair, they, and LA are closer to being offshoots of Hell really.

*rolls eyes* So, you don't know what you're talking about? Got it.

edit: as a point of reference, Escondido is in San Diego County, Simi is in Ventura County, Corona is in Riverside County, and the metro city in Orange City is Santa Ana, not Anaheim.

You're a suburb of either LA or San Diego. No if's and's or but's.

You're just being butthurt.

To be fair, they, and LA are closer to being offshoots of Hell really.

Quite right. I'd imagine Hell, if it exists, to be something like Los Angeles.

Is every city in California "a suburb of Los Angeles"? Because as a native of the state it sure doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about.

No, only the shitty ones down south.

If it's so important to you, no, none of those cities is considered a "suburb of Los Angeles." At least not locally. And no one says "O.C." It ain't a TV show. =P

But really, your ignorance and prejudice toward suburbanites ("THEY LEFT THEIR POOR TO DIE IN THE CITY!!!") is what's offensive about your post; that you consider everything south of Bakersfield an offshoot of L.A. is simply proof of your ignorance.

Not everything south of Bakersfield. Just everything south of El Cajon Pass, or Tejon Pass. East of the Pacific ocean. North of San Diego/ Imperial County. And West of the 10/60 Split in Beaumont.

I wrote the responce in the same spirit as the original. When you criticize the original poster for calling Oakland a horrid place you'll get a little more legitimacy to make the argument that I'm offensive.

And by the way, white flight is a real and observed phenomenon. I'd say they're more offensive for doing it than I am for saying it.

You're a suburb of either LA or San Diego. No if's and's or but's.

You're just being butthurt.

:)

Not everything south of Bakersfield. Just everything south of El Cajon Pass, or Tejon Pass. East of the Pacific ocean. North of San Diego/ Imperial County. And West of the 10/60 Split in Beaumont.
So in other words where most people in SoCal live.

I wrote the responce in the same spirit as the original. When you criticize the original poster for calling Oakland a horrid place you'll get a little more legitimacy to make the argument that I'm offensive.

And by the way, white flight is a real and observed phenomenon. I'd say they're more offensive for doing it than I am for saying it.


Oakland isn't a horrid place. Parts of it are horrid places. East Oakland is a horrid place. It's as dangerous as South Central LA. But a lot more colorful. Parts of Oakland are really nice.

And yes, White Flight is a real phenomenon. The people who now live in Orinda and Moraga used to live in Oakland.

Interesting how many California cities were in the list of conservative cities...very interesting indeed...

We can't all be down with free love and drugs. *sighs*

Not the point, but thanks for your input.

Some parts of all large areas will "suck" in someone's opinion. "Suck" is a relative term, anyway. The point was using partisan generalizations to oppose a partisan generalization is unwise.

Yeah, I realized. I just figured if enough of us chipped in individual experiences, we could cover the whole state and determined it sucks. ;)

I have really awful memories of Kansas. :-/

What sort of fucked up cities are too dangerous to drive around?

Richmond, East Palo Alto, Hunter's Point in SF, etc. I'm not saying you'll get shot driving there, I'm saying it's best if you don't have to, and for god's sake, don't get a flat.

Is every city in California "a suburb of Los Angeles"? Because as a native of the state it sure doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about.

Um. Yes?

Fail! *smites thee*

To be fair, they, and LA are closer to being offshoots of Hell really.

Quite. Bravo!

You're a suburb of either LA or San Diego. No if's and's or but's.

You're just being butthurt.

Ahahaha. Spoken like a true Northern Californian. I salute you with this fine Berkeley-brewed beer!

Richmond, East Palo Alto, Hunter's Point in SF, etc. I'm not saying you'll get shot driving there, I'm saying it's best if you don't have to, and for god's sake, don't get a flat.
I used to work in Richmond. It's best not to go there. Especially the infamous Iron Triangle. Hunter's Point is bad, too, but it's not quite as concentrated. I've driven through there to shows. It is bad enough that a cop following me didn't care when I ran a red light (it was on accident, I was laughing and telling jokes with my friends and not paying enough attention to the road) and instead of pulling me over he turned off on a side street.


Ahahaha. Spoken like a true Northern Californian. I salute you with this fine Berkeley-brewed beer!

Why thank you for the salute. I only wish I had some Berkeley beer for myself as well, lol. And yes, I'm very very "NorCal." Right down to noting my distaste for that southern part of the state quite often, just in case anyone forgets.

Why thank you for the salute. I only wish I had some Berkeley beer for myself as well, lol. And yes, I'm very very "NorCal." Right down to noting my distaste for that southern part of the state quite often, just in case anyone forgets.

Trumer Pils. Check your Safeway. Very crisp and fresh.

They need the reminding, otherwise they start to think they're someone. I think the misconception of everything south of Bakersfield being a suburb of L.A. wouldn't be so popular if people from SoCal didn't believe it themselves. My frosh year roommate said she was from L.A. and she was from freaking Pomona. :rolleyes:

Overland Park, KS is a suburb of Kansas City, MO -- in the east. Not flat. Hilly.

All I'm saying is that just because a place isn't your cup of tea doesn't mean it sucks. I moved to Bismarck, ND for three years from Seattle. It was a bit of culture shock (and weather shock), but I grew to like the place, desolate as it could be. But I learned to hike in the west (Theodore Roosevelt NP), met some terrific people, and find that I'll miss it next year. I'll start my new gig in Spokane in September, so I'm back in WA, though not out of the dry, weather-extreme...it's just not quite as extreme.

I guess my point is, I grow weary of the almost automatic disdain people have for the Plains, as if somehow those states could help their topography and chose to live on undramatic land. Best sunrises I've ever seen short of the Atlantic Coast. I've been 30 yards away from a genuine live wild bison (and that was closer than I was advised I should get, but I'd come over a rise). I've felt air so cold that it felt like it was angry at me. Bismarck has a ballet company, a symphony and a chamber orchestra, a community chorus, and anything cultural you could want -- they just don't have multiples of any of them from which to choose. If you ask me, though, that makes each performance all the more important.

Though I was starved for sushi for three years, I'll never have better beef. I ate pheasant and loved it. All I'm saying is that every place has it's charms and plusses -- it's just that some are hidden or take effort to uncover and appreciate. Hell, my university's jazz festival had Bones Malone, Lenny Pickett and Lisa Henry, among others from Kansas City, San Francisco and all around the country. One of the best rock guitarists I've ever heard (Richard Torrance) calls Bismarck home. And once the concert's over, you go out for dessert in a town populated with Germans, Scandinavians and Germans from Russia? Fugeddabowdit.

Plains = humility, so I'm not going to say it's the best place to live. It takes effort, though, and success in such an environment breeds a certain deserved pride. [/rant]

Trumer Pils. Check your Safeway. Very crisp and fresh.

Sacramento/Davis has some very good brew-pubs. I regret that I have no relatives who live there anymore.

Hoppy Brewing Co.
Rubicon Brewing Co.
Sudwerk (in Davis)

...to name three. The Sudwerk märzen is amazing, as is their doppelbock.

And yes, White Flight is a real phenomenon.

If there is anyone who doubts the existence of white flight they should go take a drive through Detroit and its suburbs.

I wrote the responce in the same spirit as the original. When you criticize the original poster for calling Oakland a horrid place you'll get a little more legitimacy to make the argument that I'm offensive.Fine, whatever.

And by the way, white flight is a real and observed phenomenon.Maybe in the 1950s. Nowadays there are plenty of "ghetto" communities in the suburbs, especially down here in North County, where my local friends are just as likely to be Hispanic as white.

Fine, whatever.

Maybe in the 1950s. Nowadays there are plenty of "ghetto" communities in the suburbs, especially down here in North County, where my local friends are just as likely to be Hispanic as white.

White flight is one of the root reasons as to why the inner city "ghettos" are what they are.