NationStates Jolt Archive

Your thoughts, which do you think should be in it, if either. I personally think Russia is more deserving than Turkey, because culturally and racially it's a European country and most of the people live in the European part.

Racially shouldn't really matter.

Russia is rapidly becoming a very repressive state. Almost quasi-fascist, one might say.

Turkey has a lot of work to do before their human rights are up to European standards as well, though.

Turkey is our bitch and Russia is like the jail house bubba talking about our nice arse

though really neither nation currently qualifies for membership anyway and won't for a long time yet

I was reading a copy of the economist a year or so ago and it quoted a Russian ambassador's response to the question "do you think Russia will ever join the EU?" the response was a laugh and the reply "no, besides it would be more like the EU joining Russia".

It could be that some people don't like how Russia is going. After all, we've all heard people criticize Putin and so forth.

It could be that some people don't like how Russia is going. After all, we've all heard people criticize Putin and so forth.

or in eastern Europe's case, just don't like Russia : P

Your thoughts, which do you think should be in it, if either. I personally think Russia is more deserving than Turkey, because culturally and racially it's a European country and most of the people live in the European part.

From what I understand of Russian demographics, it won't be for long. They've got a lot of immigration issues due to Chinese and Central Asian populations, and they've got a low birthrate among ethnic Russians.

Turkey, meanwhile, has cultural ties to Europe via the old Ottoman Empire, which was well established in the Balkans for centuries.

I think Turkey will meet EU requirements before Russia will...regardless, I see no reason not to let either join.

or in eastern Europe's case, just don't like Russia : P

Point taken. Perhaps, one day, Russia will be considered.

I'd rather not have my country join the EU..

Your thoughts, which do you think should be in it, if either. I personally think Russia is more deserving than Turkey, because culturally and racially it's a European country and most of the people live in the European part.Too big.

Racially shouldn't really matter.

Russia is rapidly becoming a very repressive state. Almost quasi-fascist, one might say.

Turkey has a lot of work to do before their human rights are up to European standards as well, though.The repressive shouldn't be an argument to never allow a state in. Once it's gone, the argument goes poof.

The EU has some serious reforming of its own to do before it can think about letting anyone else join. We need to know where we're going with this project and what we want to achieve, rather than make the current uncertainty worse by adding new voices to the table.

Racially shouldn't really matter.

Russia is rapidly becoming a very repressive state. Almost quasi-fascist, one might say.

Turkey has a lot of work to do before their human rights are up to European standards as well, though.

Russia is geographically and culturally a part of Europe, while Turkey has played the part of the antagonist for many years (in the Ottoman empire version).
Both countries need to improve their standards about human rights, civil rights, democracy, respect of minorities and implementation of local autonomies to meet the EU standards. Russia has got to abolish de jure, not just de facto, the death penalty if it wants to join. Turkey has got to stop supporting the unrests in the Balkans and to recognise autonomy to the Kurds (the autonomy of Südtirol is a good example of what could be a good
solution).
Anyway Russia will join someday, it's a matter of destiny and economic opportunities. Turkey meh... there's always the "EU is a christian club" syndrome, on both sides.

From what I understand of Russian demographics, it won't be for long. They've got a lot of immigration issues due to Chinese and Central Asian populations, and they've got a low birthrate among ethnic Russians.
Same goes for Italy, plus we've got Berlusconi. Yet we're (still) in.

I was reading a copy of the economist a year or so ago and it quoted a Russian ambassador's response to the question "do you think Russia will ever join the EU?" the response was a laugh and the reply "no, besides it would be more like the EU joining Russia".

This is the issue, from the EU's point of view.. The largest EU country by area is France, 640,000 Sq Km or there abouts. Germany has around 80,000,000 people, and is the biggest EU country population wise. The entire EU is (according to Wiki) 4,422,773 sq km. Russia has 140,000,000 people, covers 17,000,000 sq km and 11 time zones. You might as well just make the entire EU one of the federal republics.

Turkey, in it's scale, is much more in keeping with other EU countries. It's still larger than any of the others, but not ridiculously so, it's population is also within the range of existing EU member states. Turkey has politically looked toward Europe for a long time, and so it's a natural member of the bloc. It's interests lie in Europe.

From the Russian view, it has no interest in the EU. Russia looks toward Central Asia as it's area of interests, and in coming years this and East Asia are only going to be come more important. Europe is of secondary interest to Russia.

Fuck "cultural" requirements. The only things you should need to join the EU are a commitment to civil rights, political rights and a similar economy in terms of its healthiness. Turkey is working on all of those things and is getting closer all the time. Russia isn't so much as taking a step backwards as a running jump.

However, it remains to be seen if the Turkish military have finally taken a step back from politics with the current climate. I'm sure it would be getting close to some General thinking its his obligation to perform a coup in previous times.

However, once you're in you can give any pretense to the above. Much like my own government. 42 days... wtf?! Even the former head of MI5 was saying it was overkill.

Your thoughts, which do you think should be in it, if either. I personally think Russia is more deserving than Turkey, because culturally and racially it's a European country and most of the people live in the European part.

Russia is too big and too strong. If or when the EU has the unity and the combined strength to let them in without undermining the "old Europe" core states, then yes sure. But Russia will still have to come begging because by then Pakistan, the more secular countries of the Middle East, and half of Africa will want membership too.

I'd rather not have my country join the EU..

Granting that you're Russian (on faith, I didn't search your post history): why not?

Perhaps a better question would be, "would Russia want to join the EU even if they were allowed to?"

However, once you're in you can give any pretense to the above. Much like my own government. 42 days... wtf?! Even the former head of MI5 was saying it was overkill.

28 days is overkill. When was the last time people were killed by terroris attacks over here? 3 years ago. How often are there stabbings and shootings? Every day it seems like.

I don't really understand the arguments made by some that russia is "too big", landmass doesn't really mean much, and population-wise russia is much less populous than the EU as a whole, so I fail to see any serious problems.

Personally I think it would be a good idea for the EU to get its house in order, allow recently admitted states to catch up to all their standards, and just have the population get used to the idea of being in the EU before they stir up more trouble by adding on more slightly unstable states.

This is the issue, from the EU's point of view.. The largest EU country by area is France, 640,000 Sq Km or there abouts. Germany has around 80,000,000 people, and is the biggest EU country population wise. The entire EU is (according to Wiki) 4,422,773 sq km. Russia has 140,000,000 people, covers 17,000,000 sq km and 11 time zones. You might as well just make the entire EU one of the federal republics.

The population argument, however, reverses the whole thing. (CIA world factbook)
European Union 491,018,677 July 2008 est.
Russia 140,702,094 July 2008 est.
Germany 82,369,548 July 2008 est.
France 64,057,790 July 2008 est.
United Kingdom 60,943,912 July 2008 est.
Italy 58,145,321 July 2008 est.

That is, the 4 most populated EU countries alone have a population that 100M greater than Russia's.

From the Russian view, it has no interest in the EU. Russia looks toward Central Asia as it's area of interests, and in coming years this and East Asia are only going to be come more important. Europe is of secondary interest to Russia.
Europe ranks first as for import/export towards and from Russia. With Germany and Italy leading iirc.

I'd rather not have my country join the EU..

I don't want my country in the EU either.

BUT IT'S TOO LATE, SAVE YOURSELVES! :rolleyes:

Did I miss something? When has Turkey been offered to join the EU? And who offered that?

Last thing I knew, Turkey applied for membership, the EU handed over a list of requirements, and Turkey comes back occasionally now showing Brussles proudly what they've done to meet the requirements...

Your thoughts, which do you think should be in it, if either. I personally think Russia is more deserving than Turkey, because culturally and racially it's a European country and most of the people live in the European part.
1) It would fuck up NATO
2) Russia meets about as many conditions as Turkey for getting in, regarding human rights etc. (not that Turkey is being offered to join the EU, but going on this premise...)
3) Russia is huge, but not actually that rich, so EU schemes their would either be pointlessly limited, or woefully expensive.

Did I miss something?

Yeah, you did. Turkey is in the EU, wait, hang on, nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnow.

Yeah, you did. Turkey is in the EU, wait, hang on, nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnow.

*checks*


Nope.

I think Turkey is ready for EU, people are looking for some fake thinks to say no like geography, etc... They should look on a map where Cyprus ( not clear situation, cut in 2... ). I agree to look for human rights and civil rights but every country signated them but don't respect them, for me that just a paper meaning nothing, sad to say than every country don't care about but true.
About Russia, I don't know what to think. They're european but they're really far away to be modern... Wild capitalist whitout any right execpt when you're rich, really far of EU standards.
Pretty sure than if they're in UE, they will like to run it, compulsing other country to do what Russia wants...

Your thoughts, which do you think should be in it, if either. I personally think Russia is more deserving than Turkey, because culturally and racially it's a European country and most of the people live in the European part.
There's so many reasons but, for once, most people here seem to be giving the right answers....

Um, mightn't it be because Russia is on the Asian continent?:confused:

Um, mightn't it be because Russia is on the Asian continent?:confused:
Some of it is, just as some (alright, most) of Turkey is actually Asian. That's not really the issue at hand, though.

The problems are that it's huge, not very EU-esque, the whole thing would sorta make NATO a waste of time, and the Polish and Russians are always arguing about something, the current issue is 'meat' of all things. Don't really want that in the EU.

From what I understand of Russian demographics, it won't be for long. They've got a lot of immigration issues due to Chinese and Central Asian populations, and they've got a low birthrate among ethnic Russians.

From what I understand, one might say the same thing about many 'Western' European countries and various ex-colonials. It seems France is rapidly becoming the equivalent of Texas, only with various Muslim peoples instead of Mexicans. Of course, over here its the white people rioting instead of the import-versions, and you can safely drink the city water in most Texas towns...

So...what happens when the UK, France, and Italy fail to meet EU cultural standards? :P

EDIT:
On the topic at hand...why would Russia WANT to join the EU? They're on one of their historic power-spikes and will probably be invading various former Soviet-bloc states soon enough. Pretty soon everybody's going to be singing 'God Bless the Tsar' and Putin's going to be wearing a crown with fur on the edges.
...
OK, maybe thats a slight exaggeration. The part about the fur, I mean.

Um, mightn't it be because Russia is on the Asian continent?:confused:

The bulk of the population lives in the European belt of the country.

Hmmmm... Why would anyone want to give someone the same rights as themselves when they can - at least try to - meddle with their international policies at will? I am Turkish and I really don't understand why my country is allocating so much resource to something that's clearly will not happen if most of the people with any say in it have it their way. It'd be good to be recognized as a European country so that some morons wouldn't ask me how many days does it take to go to Istanbul from Ankara by camel or whether I know what a fork is or not but that's the whole of it, in my humble opinion.

Anyways, we'll see...

Cheerio!