NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, I've been wondering... Italy was the heartland of the Renaissance, birthplace of famous people like Michelangelo, Galileo, Dante, Da Vinci, Vivaldi, Verdi and Volta...

Now, none of the famous italian people we know - up until today - were born further south than Rome. Most of them come from the region known as Lombardia, which is in on the northern edge of the nation. Also, we find that, since classical Rome, the most powerful italian cities and states were located north of Rome - Venice, Florence, etc.
Moreover, the post-WWII economic boom took place in the north, attracting massive migration from the agricultural south to the north of the nation.

The south, on the other hand, is known for little other societal "achievements" than the mafia.

My question is simple: Why is that so?

Any Sicilians or Neapolitans or other south-italians on this forum, please don't feel offended - instead, please proove me wrong!

Well, I've been wondering... Italy was the heartland of the Renaissance, birthplace of famous people like Michelangelo, Galileo, Dante, Da Vinci, Vivaldi, Verdi and Volta...

Now, none of the famous italian people we know - up until today - were born further south than Rome. Most of them come from the region known as Lombardia, which is in on the northern edge of the nation. Also, we find that, since classical Rome, the most powerful italian cities and states were located north of Rome - Venice, Florence, etc.
Moreover, the post-WWII economic boom took place in the north, attracting massive migration from the agricultural south to the north of the nation.

The south, on the other hand, is known for little other societal "achievements" than the mafia.

My question is simple: Why is that so?

Any Sicilians or Neapolitans or other south-italians on this forum, please don't feel offended - instead, please proove me wrong!

I think you are wrong informed.

Before the Renaissance it was often richer and wealthier than the north.
In the 11th and 12th century the kingdom of Sicily was one of the richest states in entire Europe (and thus the world, at that time).

Check this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Italy#North-South_Divide

My question is simple: Why is that so?
Because they didn't industrialise as quickly as the north, and hence are taken less seriously. Also they're poorer and all that.

Well, I've been wondering... Italy was the heartland of the Renaissance, birthplace of famous people like Michelangelo, Galileo, Dante, Da Vinci, Vivaldi, Verdi and Volta...

Now, none of the famous italian people we know - up until today - were born further south than Rome.

Every single one of those people you mention came from Northern Italy.

Every single one of those people you mention came from Northern Italy.

Yes, this is what I said!

hey, the mafia is an achievement!;) Every other European criminal group uses the word as their own.

hey, the mafia is an achievement!;) Every other European criminal group uses the word as their own.
The mafia is about as much of an acheivement for Italy as "we have the most AIDS anywhere!" is for Swaziland, tbqh.

Kingdoms, states, regions and countries don't rule for ever.
Maybe Southern Italy will be thé hot spot the next 1000 years, who knows?

Currently they suffer from poverty, the mafia and the less industrialization.
But things can go fast. China and Asia as a whole are becoming the factory of the world and you can bet that we will feel this in Europe and USA (we already do).

But it's not that Southern Italians are inferior or something. Not at all, they were once the leading folks of Europe...

its a well known fact that the further South a people are the more backwards they are :P

Because Naples is the worst city in Europe.

Because Naples is the worst city in Europe.

let not be too hasty when Belgrade is concerned

its a well known fact that the further South a people are the more backwards they are :P

This man speaks the truth.

Why is that so?

Well, this may not be the only reason, but it would certainly be a reason - there's a marked difference in the quality of the land in the two parts of the country. The southern end on the penisular has poor agricultural quality for a start, and it's also harder to reach due to the generally more mountainous terrain.

Also Naples suffers from Biker-Gangs of 10 year old vespa riders.

Well, Northern Italians do say that Africa starts south of Rome....

Take that for what it's worth.

let not be too hasty when Belgrade is concerned
Hey, now. Minsk is feeling a tad bit left out.

Not sicilian but...
Maybe the most important dranmatists in italian hystory, Luigi Pirandello (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Pirandello), was sicilian...
Oh, and Archimedes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes) was from Siracusa, Sicily.

let not be too hasty when Belgrade is concerned

Don't forget that Belgrade is so poor, that people don't have vowels.

its a well known fact that the further South a people are the more backwards they are :P

just look at the antarcticans

just look at the antarcticans

yeah, but they have those nifty integral tuxedos

yeah, but they have those nifty integral tuxedos

but haven't even gotten around to inventing the wheel. or fire, for that matter.

Differing histories, maybe. Italy wasn't really a single entity until the late 19th century, it was divided, and their histories vary. Risottia and the other Italians on board may have a better explanation.

Don't forget that Belgrade is so poor, that people don't have vowels.
Then what do do think we have? Nothing? :(

just look at the antarcticans
you shall face armies of penguins because you insulted them antarcticans! :eek:

let not be too hasty when Belgrade is concerned

Sorry, Belgrade>Naples.

More famous southerners:

Renato Caccioppoli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renato_Caccioppoli) - Napoli
Enrico Fermi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrico_Fermi) - Roma

More famous southerners:

Renato Caccioppoli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renato_Caccioppoli) - Napoli
Enrico Fermi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrico_Fermi) - Roma

He said, further south than Rome, so Fermi doesn't exactly qualify, and I've never heard of Renato, but maybe its just me.

Also, for whoever posted archimedes, he was greek, and therefore disqualified.

Well, I've been wondering... Italy was the heartland of the Renaissance, birthplace of famous people like Michelangelo, Galileo, Dante, Da Vinci, Vivaldi, Verdi and Volta...

Now, none of the famous italian people we know - up until today - were born further south than Rome. Most of them come from the region known as Lombardia, which is in on the northern edge of the nation. Also, we find that, since classical Rome, the most powerful italian cities and states were located north of Rome - Venice, Florence, etc.
Moreover, the post-WWII economic boom took place in the north, attracting massive migration from the agricultural south to the north of the nation.

The south, on the other hand, is known for little other societal "achievements" than the mafia.

My question is simple: Why is that so?

Any Sicilians or Neapolitans or other south-italians on this forum, please don't feel offended - instead, please proove me wrong!

Need I remind you that Rome, a southern Italian city, kicked the shit out of the Etruscans, a northern Italian people? Any more discussion is pointless, since Northern Italians are descendants of their southern conquerors.

Need I remind you that Rome, a southern Italian city, kicked the shit out of the Etruscans, a northern Italian people? Any more discussion is pointless, since Northern Italians are descendants of their southern conquerors.
http://img15.exs.cx/img15/8596/italy_regions.gif

Well, that was easy.

its a well known fact that the further South a people are the more backwards they are :P

Australia must suck then. And us Canadians would be the most superior people on the planet. :D

Well...

If it bothers you enough, you could always start shooting eachother, lol...:rolleyes:

Australia must suck then. And us Canadians would be the most superior people on the planet. :D
They elected John Howard 3 times and let Kevin Rudd be in charge of the opposition party. Nuff said :p

but haven't even gotten around to inventing the wheel. or fire, for that matter.

I respect a people who set about making formal wear without a wheel or fire as a matter of priority; such determination, those nifty southerners!

More on-topic, though, I think the Italian Renaissance simply so over shadowed past events in the country (and the world-wide perception of the country), that it became an enduring cultural center. Also, I think south Italy might be perceived as more 'hick:' as in the south of north America, and the south of Japan, the northern accent is more like the standard written language, and is the most common accent for news broadcasters and government announcements.

Well, I've been wondering... Italy was the heartland of the Renaissance, birthplace of famous people like Michelangelo, Galileo, Dante, Da Vinci, Vivaldi, Verdi and Volta...


just browsing wiki, italians:


Luigi Lilio (lat.Aloisius Lilius), from Calabria, devised the first form of Gregorian calendar
Ettore Majorana, from Sicily, one of the most prominent mathematical physicists of the '30s
Franco Modigliani, from Lazio, Nobel Memorial Prize for economics
Emilio Segrè, from Lazio, Nobel Prize for physics

Giovanni Caboto (eng.John Cabot), supposedly from Campania amongst other regions of Italy, explorer

Antonio Gramsci, from Sardinia, politician and historian

Nicola Abbagnano, from Campania, philosopher
Giambattista Basile, from Campania, writer and poet
Giordano Bruno, from Campaia, philosopher, first to theorize that the stars are suns with planetary systems
Gesualdo Bufalino, from Sicily, writer
Andrea Camilleri, from Sicily, writer
Benedetto Croce, from Abruzzo (sometimes considered "south"), philosopher and politician
Giacomo da Lentini, from Sicily, poet and main figure of the "Sicilian school", inventor of the sonnet
Gabriele Rapagnetta alias Gabriele D'Annunzio, from Abruzzo, writer
Grazia Deledda, from Sardinia, writer and Nobel Prize for literature
Francesco De Sanctis, from Campania, writer and literary critic
Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa, from Sicily, writer: "Il Gattopardo" (eng.The Leopard)
Emilio Lussu, from Sardinia, writer and politician
Pietro A.D. Trapassi alias Metastasio, from Lazio, writer and librettist
Alberto Pincherle alias Alberto Moravia, from Lazio, writer
Luigi Pirandello, from Sicily, writer, Nobel Prize for literature
Salvatore Quasimodo, from Sicily, poet, Nobel Prize for literature
Giambattista Vico, from Campania, philosopher and jurist

Gianni Amelio, from Calabria, filmmaker
Dario Argento, from Lazio, filmmaker
Mario Bava, from Lazio, filmmaker
Frank Capra, from Sicily, filmmaker
Vittorio De Sica, from Lazio, actor and filmmaker, Academy Award (Ladri di Biciclette)
Sergio Leone, from Lazio, filmmaker, the master of spaghetti western
Roberto Rossellini, from Lazio, filmmaker

some movie actors from central/southern Italy:
Sofia Loren, Nino Manfredi, Silvana Mangano, Marcello Mastroianni, Alberto Sordi, Bud Spencer, Totò, Rodolfo Guglielmi alias Rodolfo (Rudolph) Valentino, Massimo Troisi

just browsing wiki, italians:

Snip...

Non c'avevi un tubo da fare eh?
Lazio has evidently been disqualified by not being "enough" south. Else my Fermi would stand.

Well, I've been wondering... Italy was the heartland of the Renaissance, birthplace of famous people like Michelangelo, Galileo, Dante, Da Vinci, Vivaldi, Verdi and Volta...

Now, none of the famous italian people we know - up until today - were born further south than Rome. Most of them come from the region known as Lombardia, which is in on the northern edge of the nation. Also, we find that, since classical Rome, the most powerful italian cities and states were located north of Rome - Venice, Florence, etc.
Moreover, the post-WWII economic boom took place in the north, attracting massive migration from the agricultural south to the north of the nation.

The south, on the other hand, is known for little other societal "achievements" than the mafia.

My question is simple: Why is that so?

Any Sicilians or Neapolitans or other south-italians on this forum, please don't feel offended - instead, please proove me wrong!

In the middle ages the most powerful states were the so called Repubbliche Marinare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repubbliche_Marinare) Amalfi, Pisa, Genoa and Venice.
Genoa and Venice - North
Pisa - Center
Amalfi - South

Also, of the 7 people you named only one comes from Lombardia while 4 come from Toscana, 1 from Emilia-Romagna and one from Veneto.

He said, further south than Rome
, so Fermi doesn't exactly qualify, and I've never heard of Renato, but maybe its just me.[/QUOTE]

op:

Most of them come from the region known as Lombardia, which is in on the northern edge of the nation. Also, we find that, since classical Rome, the most powerful italian cities and states were located north of Rome - Venice, Florence, etc.

Also, for whoever posted archimedes, he was greek, and therefore disqualified.

Archimedes was born in Syrakouse (today Siracusa), Sicily. Hence, qualifies.
Born from Italian family in America = American.
Born from Greek family in Sicily = Sicilian.

In the middle ages the most powerful states were the so called Repubbliche Marinare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repubbliche_Marinare) Amalfi, Pisa, Genoa and Venice.
Genoa and Venice - North
Pisa - Center
Amalfi - South


More:

In the XIII century Sicily was the seat of the Holy Roman Emperor, and Palermo was probabily the foremost cultural centre of Europe - with a beautiful merging of cultures (greek, latin, arab, germanic).

In the XVIII century Naples was a major cultural centre of Europe. Also the first italian railway (Napoli-Portici) was inaugurated by the King of the Two Sicilies.

Non c'avevi un tubo da fare eh?
Lazio has evidently been disqualified by not being "enough" south. Else my Fermi would stand.

No, oggi ho commissioni da seguire solo al pomeriggio, e ieri sera ero sbronzo.

I think that Lazio stands, as the italian Renaissance is usually placed in the northern and central-northern regions (Toscana-Umbria-Marche). Many people see Lazio, as former hearth of the Papacy, as backward and somewhat secluded from the cultural development of Italy.

Cazzo, tocca a noi due difendere i meridionali...

its a well known fact that the further South a people are the more backwards they are :P

I guess that you'd wish to be a Sami then.

I guess that you'd wish to be a Sami then.
Or an Arctic polar bear. :)

The North is just jealous, and likes talking shit about the South.

The North is just jealous, and likes talking shit about the South.

Yeah, and the only two defending the south on this forum are me and Risottia. Both northerners...

I think that the greatest problem here is in the deformation the general public has of Italy and its history.

It was supposed to be a joke... from a person who traces her great-grandparents back to Palermo and Messina.

The North is just jealous, and likes talking shit about the South.

Except for people living at exactly 90° N, one is always someone else's southern neighbour.

Except for people living at exactly 90° N, one is always someone else's southern neighbour.

I always liked going south. Somehow it feels like going downhill.

I always liked going south. Somehow it feels like going downhill.

Oh wait, this is a quote, but I cannot remember were you took it from...

Oh wait, this is a quote, but I cannot remember were you took it from...

*plays the Jeopardy theme*

Treebeard?

Treebeard?

That's correct. The board is yours.

Treebeard?

That's him!