NationStates Jolt Archive

You know Al Gore?

Yes, it's that fat *ss movie maker from the 'An Inconvenient Truth', which sold you the environment guilt.

In 2007 there was another separated Kyoto ruling needed for Al Gore his own private electricity bill. It was already overreaching the sky.

His eight-bathroom sized little house consumed 20 times more electricity compared to the house of the average American Joe.

In 2008, it's even TEN % more.

I'm wondering why Gore didn't receive an Oscar for hypocritical lying…

I guess this proves there's no such thing as global warming.

I'm wondering why Gore didn't receive an Oscar for hypocritical lying…

Hypocrite I see. But where is the liar ?
Unless of course you believe this magically disproves his message...

I'm sure that there's a point to your post, but you can probably make it much more convincingly by refraining from pointless name calling and text formatting.

Yeah...I've always loved that about good ole' gore.
Great guy.

I'm sure that there's a point to your post, but you can probably make it much more convincingly by refraining from pointless name calling and text formatting.

I never call a fat *ss a fat *ss, only when they are preaching the global warming and have an electricity bill 20 times higher compared to the average American (who already have very high bills compared to Europeans or Japanese people).

In such case, I'm mad and I would even call one with a tiny *ss a fat *ss.

I never call a fat *ss a fat *ss, only when they are preaching the global warming and have a electricity bill 20 times higher compared to the average American (who already have very high bills compared to Europeans or Japanese).

In such case, I'm mad and I would even call one with a tiny *ss a fat *ss.

As far as I'm aware his home doubles as his office, with his staff and what not.

As far as I'm aware his home doubles as his office, with his staff and what not.

now now, let's not let facts get in the way of righteous indignation.

now now, let's not let facts get in the way of righteous indignation.

Now, now, let's not get into the fact that Bush's ranch in Crawford also serves as an alternate White House with staff, and is orders of magnitude more efficient and green than Gore's palace.

oh no not rasen (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0134928/)!

poor Mr Gore:(

edit:

Now, now, let's not get into the fact that Bush's ranch in Crawford also serves as an alternate White House with staff, and is orders of magnitude more efficient and green than Gore's palace.

it a ranch, its very existence is environmentally damaging

According ABC, CNN, Fox, CBS and others they are not moaning that they work with a staff in the house.

What they use as ‘protection’ is saying that he and his woman are working sometimes at home.

Well, well, well.

Whether or not he is a hypocrite is irrelevant to whether or not global warming exists.
While at first glance, it may seem this way, (http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp) there are some circumstances (http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp)that sort of balance it out.

I like snopes. :D

it a ranch, its very existence is environmentally damaging

Hardly.

Designed by an architecture professor at a leading national university, this house incorporates every "green" feature current home construction can provide. The house contains only 4,000 square feet (4 bedrooms) and is nestled on arid high prairie in the American southwest. A central closet in the house holds geothermal heat pumps drawing ground water through pipes sunk 300 feet into the ground. The water (usually 67 degrees F.) heats the house in winter and cools it in summer. The system uses no fossil fuels such as oil or natural gas, and it consumes 25% of the electricity required for a conventional heating/cooling system. Rainwater from the roof is collected and funneled into a 25,000 gallon underground cistern. Wastewater from showers, sinks and toilets goes into underground purifying tanks and then into the cistern. The collected water then irrigates the land surrounding the house. Flowers and shrubs native to the area blend the property into the surrounding rural landscape.

Hardly.

ranch (rănch) pronunciation
n.

1. An extensive farm, especially in the western United States, on which large herds of cattle, sheep, or horses are raised.
2. A large farm on which a particular crop or kind of animal is raised: a mink ranch.
3. A house in which the owner of an extensive farm lives.

http://www.answers.com/ranch&r=67

Oh, for the love of....


I'm going to be back laying behind a tractor trailer. Could someone come out in a few and run me over?

Your English teacher must be so proud.

Oh, for the love of....


I'm going to be back laying behind a tractor trailer. Could someone come out in a few and run me over?

**starts up riding mower**

There are numerous causes for electricity use to go up.

As gas prices are rising, chances are, they may be home more and being home more will drive up overall consumption. Every little thing you use contributes to your use.

A smaller house would use less because there is less space, which means fewer outlets, etc.

You know Al Gore?

Yes, it's that fat *ss movie maker from the 'An Inconvenient Truth', which sold you the environment guilt.

In 2007 there was another separated Kyoto ruling needed for Al Gore his own private electricity bill. It was already overreaching the sky.

His eight-bathroom sized little house consumed 20 times more electricity compared to the house of the average American Joe.

In 2008, it's even TEN % more.

I'm wondering why Gore didn't receive an Oscar for hypocritical lying…

I suppose the fact that he runs the equivalent of a small business out of that house means nothing.

I suppose the fact that he gets his electricity from purely green sources means nothing.

I guess the fact that even if none of this were true and he were completely hypocritical it would do nothing to show global warming does not exist means nothing.

That's right folks: when you've got nothing on the message, attack the messenger.

I suppose the fact that he gets his electricity from purely green sources means nothing.

Source. I believe in global warming, and I would rather that the messenger, who is going to tell me how to live my life, would show me by example.

Bush runs the alternate White House out of the ranch at Crawford, and is being a much better example. Much, much better.

I suppose the fact that he runs the equivalent of a small business out of that house means nothing.

I suppose the fact that he gets his electricity from purely green sources means nothing.

I guess the fact that even if none of this were true and he were completely hypocritical it would do nothing to show global warming does not exist means nothing.

That's right folks: when you've got nothing on the message, attack the messenger.

Because remember Boys and Girls, if you can successfully attack and discredit Al Gore as an environmentalist that means Global Climate Change will cease to exist.

That's right, the moment Al Gore is exposed as a hypocrite the world's overall temperature will magically cool down. The melting polar ice caps will refreeze and the rising water levels will recede to where the Inuits and the Tuvaluans will be able to go back home again. And don't forget the coral in the Great Barrier Reef will come back to life the second Al Gore is shot down as a Big Fat Fake. Hurricanes will become a relic of the past when he's exposed too!

Source. I believe in global warming, and I would rather that the messenger, who is going to tell me how to live my life, would show me by example.

Bush runs the alternate White House out of the ranch at Crawford, and is being a much better example. Much, much better.

My source is Neo Art and others who have argued on this before. Take it up with them.

As for the whole messenger bit, you might vaguely have a point if Gore was the only global warming messenger. He's not. He's simply the most well-known.

My source is Neo Art and others who have argued on this before. Take it up with them.

As for the whole messenger bit, you might vaguely have a point if Gore was the only global warming messenger. He's not. He's simply the most well-known.

I have to have a link, so you do, too. Go ahead, find me a link, or what you've posted is a lie.

I have to have a link, so you do, too. Go ahead, find me a link, or what you've posted is a lie.
I said that my source was Neo Art. Ask him. I'm not going to defend the statement further.

**starts up riding mower**

appreciated.


also, thanks to snopes so that this argument can occur for the 50th time based off the same information,
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

I said that my source was Neo Art. Ask him. I'm not going to defend the statement further.

Neo Art is not a source. If you take him as a source, then several complete inaccuracies will be yours.

Say, on the Second Amendment, where he was utterly and completely wrong, and utterly in disagreement with most constitutional law scholars, and wrong with the Supreme Court.

appreciated.


also, thanks to snopes so that this argument can occur for the 50th time based off the same information,
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

**throws hand grenades around the yard, while mowing over Sarkhaan**

Doesn't Gore use Carbon Credits though? I mean he pay other people to pollute less so he doesn't have to!

**throws hand grenades around the yard, while mowing over Sarkhaan**

It's like the 4th of July, only with more shrapnel and blood.

Also, I'm sure I'm missing many, but these are the other two threads I could quickly find regarding this same topic. Enjoy.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=495614&highlight=Gore
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=484241&highlight=Gore

And no, if they happen to not be about the exact topic, I don't really care.

That's right folks: when you've got nothing on the message, attack the messenger.

The real messengers are the Scientists.

So, why am I expected to care about Al Gore's electricity bill?

So, why am I expected to care about Al Gore's electricity bill?

Don't. Pay more attention to staying out of the way of my riding mower and hand grenades.

You know Al Gore?

Yes, it's that fat *ss movie maker from the 'An Inconvenient Truth', which sold you the environment guilt.

In 2007 there was another separated Kyoto ruling needed for Al Gore his own private electricity bill. It was already overreaching the sky.

His eight-bathroom sized little house consumed 20 times more electricity compared to the house of the average American Joe.

In 2008, it's even TEN % more.

I'm wondering why Gore didn't receive an Oscar for hypocritical lying…


did you have a source for this?

and how can gore POSSIBLY be a hypocrit, he pays someone else so that he is free to use as much energy as he pleases.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22248699/

The Green Building Council's certification program has four levels, with platinum being the highest followed by gold. Gore's home was one of 14 to earn gold status and the only Tennessee home to earn any certification.

Electricity usage at the home remains well above regional averages, but Gore's power consumption decreased by 6,890 kilowatt hours, or 11 percent, between June and August, despite the heat wave.

Gore's electric use increased again after he had to take his solar panels offline in August so his new geothermal system could be integrated into the system. But his natural gas use has dropped 93 percent in the three months since the geothermal pump was activated.

Please note that the environmentally friendly renovations that Gore has done are LEED certified. That means that they have all been verified by a third party. Tell me, DK, does the Crawford ranch have third party verification?

As far as I can tell, the part you quoted from the Snopes article is part of an e-mail, and not the opinion of a building professional. This is obvious from the fact that the author claims that Bush installed every green improvement available. An intelligent commenter would have realised that this is both impossible and impractical. For example, you can't have composting toilets and blackwater recycling systems. You have to have one or the other.

While the Crawford ranch definitely seems more eco-friendly than the Gore mansion prior to its latest set of renovations, there is a whole host of mitigating factors. One huge difference that the e-mail forgets to mention is the fact that one is in a rural setting, while the other is urban. Things like the Bush's septic field are normal for a rural context, while Gore would find it impossible to install the same thing in his home.

Don't. Pay more attention to staying out of the way of my riding mower and hand grenades.

This is an interesting combination of transport and weaponry, and should feature in some manner of computar gaem.

Neo Art is not a source. If you take him as a source, then several complete inaccuracies will be yours.

Say, on the Second Amendment, where he was utterly and completely wrong, and utterly in disagreement with most constitutional law scholars, and wrong with the Supreme Court.

What? I'm not taking him as a source on everything. I'm taking him as a source on this one little factoid. That's like saying that because Wikipedia had some vandalized or miswritten articles, absolutely every single scrap of information on it is completely and totally false.

What? I'm not taking him as a source on everything. I'm taking him as a source on this one little factoid. That's like saying that because Wikipedia had some vandalized or miswritten articles, absolutely every single scrap of information on it is completely and totally false.

Did you just call me wikipedia?

Did you just call me wikipedia?

*Gasp* So the prophecy was true!

The wikipedia incarnate walks amongst us! Let us bow before him while he showers us with random interesting factoids about stuff we don't really care about and won't remember. All hail the wikipedian!

*bows*

Did you just call me wikipedia?
:D

Analogies, my dear lawyer. Analogies.

*Gasp* So the prophecy was true!

The wikipedia incarnate walks amongst us! Let us bow before him while he showers us with random interesting factoids about stuff we don't really care about and won't remember. All hail the wikipedian!

*bows*

a female whale is called a cow *nods*

I believe in global warming, and I would rather that the messenger, who is going to tell me how to live my life, would show me by example.

I find as I get older that it's harder & harder to be disappointed with people who don't lead by example 100% of the time. Al Gore, like most people, =/= Ghandi. That's a whole lot of idea-babies to throw out with the hypocrisy-bathwater.

Maybe I'm just burned out on idealism.

I find as I get older that it's harder & harder to be disappointed with people who don't lead by example 100% of the time. Al Gore, like most people, =/= Ghandi. That's a whole lot of idea-babies to throw out with the hypocrisy-bathwater.

Maybe I'm just burned out on idealism.

Well, I know I, for one, don't listen to doctors regarding my medical treatment, unless they themselves have had that surgery.

Similarly, I distrust any police who arrest someone, unless those police have been arrested themselves. And preferably for the same reasons.

There is nothing irrational about my position whatsoever!

I find as I get older that it's harder & harder to be disappointed with people who don't lead by example 100% of the time. Al Gore, like most people, =/= Ghandi. That's a whole lot of idea-babies to throw out with the hypocrisy-bathwater.

Maybe I'm just burned out on idealism.

To be fair, even Ghandi =/= the Ghandi we've created in our minds.

Did you just call me wikipedia?

*edits Neo Art*

*edits Neo Art*

oh baby. Oh yeah, cite me, cite me hard!

oh baby. Oh yeah, cite me, cite me hard!

just not on the Second Amendment...

*edits Neo Art*

oh baby. Oh yeah, cite me, cite me hard!

*calls Sys Op to lock further edits of Neo Art*

Because once was eye-gouging enough.

oh baby. Oh yeah, cite me, cite me hard!
I hear your pants are up for deletion ;)
*calls Sys Op to lock further edits of Neo Art*

Because once was eye-gouging enough.

But.....but......I worked so hard on that huge list of porn, organised by starring females and featured sex positions/acts.

I hear your pants are up for deletion ;)


But.....but......I worked so hard on that huge list of porn, organised by starring females and featured sex positions/acts.

Well, we'll include THAT, but the rest stays out. ;)

oh baby. Oh yeah, cite me, cite me hard!

As you wish:

A variable force solenoid (VFS) is an electro-hydraulic device that controls pressure proportionally or inversely proportionally to a signal (voltage or current) obtained from the on-board controller of a powertrain. A low-flow VFS is used as a signal level devices for transmission line pressure control or application of clutches. A high-flow VFS controls line pressure directly or are used for direct shift clutch control. A VFS is a type of Transmission Solenoid. One or more VFS can be used in an automatic transmission or installed in an automatic transmission valve body

From: http://en.NeoArt.com/wiki/Variable_force_solenoid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_force_solenoid)

I like your randomness.

I like your randomness.

my best quality so I've been told

Hypocrite I see. But where is the liar ?
Unless of course you believe this magically disproves his message...

He claimed his house was green. Demonstrably, it is not.

Your use of "fat ass" has really swayed me.

Thank you for helping me realize just how corrupt, and fat, Al Gore is.

You know Al Gore?

Yes, it's that fat *ss movie maker from the 'An Inconvenient Truth', which sold you the environment guilt.

In 2007 there was another separated Kyoto ruling needed for Al Gore his own private electricity bill. It was already overreaching the sky.

His eight-bathroom sized little house consumed 20 times more electricity compared to the house of the average American Joe.

In 2008, it's even TEN % more.

I'm wondering why Gore didn't receive an Oscar for hypocritical lying…

A couple of reasons.
a) Because his house is the base of several businesses and comparing it to a residential house is so stupid that only a conservative would do it.

b) Energy costs have gone up so a 10% rise in one's electricity bill doesn't mean he is necessarily using more juice.

c) The closest thing to a Nobel Prize for hypocrisy and deceit is the Presidency, and in that he was beaten fair and square (hypocrisy and deceit if not actual votes).

Your use of "fat ass" has really swayed me.

Thank you for helping me realize just how corrupt, and fat, Al Gore is.

Well you do have to admit, he did gain weight since he was the V.P. *nod*

Say, on the Second Amendment, where he was utterly and completely wrong, and utterly in disagreement with most constitutional law scholars, and wrong with the Supreme Court.
Incidentally, he was right. Since his interpretation was what the Court precedent at the time was. It's not his fault your grasp of law is more or less nonexistent.

Because Al Gore using up a lot of energy in his home while promoting energy-saving ideas to stop global warming is definitely the most egregious insult dealt to U.S. citizens in the past four years.

The real messengers are the Scientists.

Yeah I know those guys, same frauds who came up with evolution. Seriously, think up an idea, stick 'The Theory of...' onto it and everyone thinks you're a genius.

Ooh, smilies...

:soap:

Guys, guys, hold on. Let the neo-cons have their propaganda. We have Congress, and in a few months we'll have the executive branch, too.

Besides, trying to stop them hasn't (http://www.answersingenesis.org) worked (http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page) before (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enterprise_Institute).

You know Al Gore?
Yes, we're great friends, and it's a shame that people such as yourself try to slander him.
Yes, it's that fat *ss
Seeing as he's not actually obese, this makes him less of a fat-ass than at least 26.6% of Americans.
movie maker from the 'An Inconvenient Truth'
Also former VP, and campaigner, but yes he made a film too.
which sold you the environment guilt.
Actually, he invited me over to see it for free, which was kind of him.
His eight-bathroom sized little house consumed 20 times more electricity compared to the house of the average American Joe.
And I'm sure his house produced far more than twenty times more electricity than the average American Joe.
In 2008, it's even ten % more.
He's trying to cut down, just give him time.
I'm wondering why Gore didn't receive an Oscar for hypocritical lying…
He said nothing of his house's size or power needs in the film, so that's rather harsh, no?

Gore's estate has been criticized twice by the group, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research (TCPR). In February 2007 the group stated that "a report by the Nashville Electric Service revealed that Mr Gore's mansion in Nashville consumed between 12 and 20 times more electricity than the average family home and that his electricity consumption had risen since the film's release in 2005."[34]

In response, MSNBC argued that the TCPR report "omits several other key facts. The former vice president's home has 20 rooms, including home offices for himself and his wife, as well as a guest house and special security measures. Furthermore, the Gores buy energy produced from renewable sources, such as wind and solar. Tonight, Countdown confirmed with the local utility officials that their program, called the ''Green Power Switch, actually costs more for the Gores -- four dollars for every 150 kilowatt hours. Meaning, by our calculations, our math here, that the Gores actually chose to increase their electric bill by $5,893, more than 50 percent, in order to minimize carbon pollution." [35]

A few months later, the Associated Press reported on December 13, 2007 that Gore "has completed a host of improvements to make the home more energy efficient, and a building-industry group has praised the house as one of the nation's most environmentally friendly [...] 'Short of tearing it down and starting anew, I don't know how it could have been rated any higher,' said Kim Shinn of the non-profit U.S. Green Building Council, which gave the house its second-highest rating for sustainable design."[36]

Gore was criticized by the TCPR again, however, in June 2008 after the group obtained his public utility bills from the Nashville Electric Service and compared "electricity consumption between the 12 months before June 2007, when it says he installed his new technology, and the year since then."[37] According to their analysis, the Gores consumed 10% more energy in the year since their home received its eco-friendly modifications. TCPR also argued that, while the "average American household consumes 11,040 kWh in an entire year," the Gore residence "uses an average of 17,768 kWh per month –1,638 kWh more energy per month than before the renovations." [37]

Gore's spokeswoman Kalee Kreider countered the claim by stating that the Gores' "utility bills have gone down 40 percent since the green retrofit." and that "the three-year renovation on the home wasn't complete until November, so it's a bit early to attempt a before-and-after comparison." [38] She also noted that TCPR did not include Gore's gas bill in their analysis (which they had done the previous year) and that the gas "bill has gone down 90 percent [...] And when the Gores do power up, they pay for renewable resources, like wind and solar power or methane gas."[39]Media Matters for America also discussed the fact that "100 percent of the electricity in his home comes from green power" and quoted the Tennessee Valley Authority as stating that "[a]lthough no source of energy is impact-free, renewable resources create less waste and pollution." [40]

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore_and_the_environment#Home_energy_use_and_Green_Power)

So Gore uses all green energy sources even though it costs him more, and apparently spent money greenifying his house. He's probably not doing as much as he could, but he's hardly a hypocrite in this regard.

Source. I believe in global warming, and I would rather that the messenger, who is going to tell me how to live my life, would show me by example.

Bush runs the alternate White House out of the ranch at Crawford, and is being a much better example. Much, much better.

Two things: Who is home more? Bush and the rest of his staff or All and Tipper? Point 2: you asked for a source and should read the bottom of the snopes article here. He pays premiums for renewable energy through a program called "green switch."

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore_and_the_environment#Home_energy_use_and_Green_Power)

So Gore uses all green energy sources even though it costs him more, and apparently spent money greenifying his house. He's probably not doing as much as he could, but he's hardly a hypocrite in this regard.

Well, he would be if he were telling other people to conserve and cut back on their usage while using colossal amounts himself. That being said, I feel Gore would be able to make an even stronger argument for climate change policy if he were to cut his energy consumption down to a more reasonable level.

You know Al Gore?

Yes, it's that fat *ss movie maker from the 'An Inconvenient Truth', which sold you the environment guilt.

I've noticed the Right has taken to calling Gore "fat ass" quite a bit lately...

...I guess it's because "dumb ass (http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/11/21/bush2_wideweb__470x358,0.jpg)" was already taken.

Two things: Who is home more? Bush and the rest of his staff or All and Tipper? Point 2: you asked for a source and should read the bottom of the snopes article here. He pays premiums for renewable energy through a program called "green switch."
I would venture to say that Al Gore and his staff spend more time at home. To my knowledge, Presidents live in the White House and vacation elsewhere. :)

It's really stupid to take an electricity bill and say "higher carbon emissions; what a fat ass hypocrite". When will the conservatives learn?

Who cares if Al Gore uses alot of power?

My family owns 12 cars, I own 3, and we live in a huge house.

If no one cares that we do.

Why should anyone care that Al Gore does?

Why should anyone care that Al Gore does?

Because the Right Wing believe in Fairy Magic. That is, if enough people believe Al Gore is a big fat liar about the threat of Global Climate Change, then it will magically make all those bad things disappear. The Island of Tuvalu will stop sinking, the Great Barrier Reef will stop dying, the polar ice caps will stop melting, so on and so forth.

I guess this proves there's no such thing as global warming.
Yeah, this cinches it. Character assassination as the classic distraction from the actual issue always does cinch it, since i'm easily amused and don't understand the issue anyway.

Because the Right Wing believe in Fairy Magic. That is, if enough people believe Al Gore is a big fat liar about the threat of Global Climate Change, then it will magically make all those bad things disappear. The Island of Tuvalu will stop sinking, the Great Barrier Reef will stop dying, the polar ice caps will stop melting, so on and so forth.

I am Right Wing. So is my entire family, hell so is my GF and her family.


But my point stands. We're almost as bad as gore ( tho I'll be in college for the next 4 years so I wont be as bad ). when it comes to that stuff, but how come theres no threads saying " ECF's Family stop wasting! "

Alot of people waste just as much as he does, its his right to do that.

If he wants to live in a big house, then let him.

To my knowledge, Presidents live in the White House and vacation elsewhere. :)

Traditionally. I might put money on W being at home more, especially his first term.

But my point stands. We're almost as bad as gore ( tho I'll be in college for the next 4 years so I wont be as bad ). when it comes to that stuff, but how come theres no threads saying " ECF's Family stop wasting! "

Because you and your family are not prominent, especially as environmental spokesmen. Nobody has the least inkling to rabidly discredit your words and your viewpoints as delusional rantings with no basis in the real world. If you were rich, famous and spoke up about taking better care of the environment then you'd have people bitching about your alleged waste of energy too.

Alot of people waste just as much as he does, its his right to do that.

If he wants to live in a big house, then let him.

Of course it is. But the whole idea behind "green" living is that, while you may have the right, and even desire to do some things, indulging that desire is not always the best course. Actually, that's the whole idea behind being a grown up.

Who cares if Al Gore uses alot of power?

My family owns 12 cars, I own 3, and we live in a huge house.

If no one cares that we do.

Why should anyone care that Al Gore does?

You have twelve cars? Why?

He has the right to pollute? Hell no, he doesn’t.
As an evangelist of the new environment religion, he has to behave as an example.

His staff isn't working at his home, at least he isn't using it as defence, so one may conclude that they aren't sitting in his homeplace.

One reason why his bills are very high is due the size of the house. One is wondering why you need 8 bathrooms. And 20 other rooms. No one is saying that he should move to a house in a row, but there is no reason for having such supersized house.

One is wondering why you need 8 bathrooms.

Maybe he has irritable bowel syndrome, and has to go take a dump every 20 meters or so...

when it comes to that stuff, but how come theres no threads saying " ECF's Family stop wasting! "

ECF, you and your family should stop wasting resources. Even if you don't care about the environment, or the fact that automobile emissions give kids cancer, you should at least be aware that your actions drive up the price of oil and help support terrorism.

He has the right to pollute? Hell no, he doesn’t.
As an evangelist of the new environment religion, he has to behave as an example.

His staff isn't working at his home, at least he isn't using it as defence, so one may conclude that they aren't sitting in his homeplace.

One reason why his bills are very high is due the size of the house. One is wondering why you need 8 bathrooms. And 20 other rooms. No one is saying that he should move to a house in a row, but there is no reason for having such supersized house.

First of all, since his latest renovation , he is polluting far, far less. In that regard, he is providing an example.

As for the size of his house, there are two comments I wish to make. First of all, he and his wife both use the home as their offices for themselves and their staff. Secondly, house size as an environmental factor is more about embodied energy (the energy it takes to extract, process, transport, and install/construct the materials in a house), and therefore doesn't apply so much to renovations of existing buildings.

No. His bills are not high. His electricity bill is slightly higher, or slightly lower depending on how you measure it, than the regional average, and his gas bill is less than 10% of what it was before.

ECF, you and your family should stop wasting resources. Even if you don't care about the environment, or the fact that automobile emissions give kids cancer, you should at least be aware that your actions drive up the price of oil and help support terrorism.



First of all, since his latest renovation , he is polluting far, far less. In that regard, he is providing an example.

As for the size of his house, there are two comments I wish to make. First of all, he and his wife both use the home as their offices for themselves and their staff. Secondly, house size as an environmental factor is more about embodied energy (the energy it takes to extract, process, transport, and install/construct the materials in a house), and therefore doesn't apply so much to renovations of existing buildings.

No. His bills are not high. His electricity bill is slightly higher, or slightly lower depending on how you measure it, than the regional average, and his gas bill is less than 10% of what it was before.

There's no staff in his home. At least he's not using it as a defence.

I know many people that use their home as an office. Not one is having a house with 20 rooms and 8 bathrooms. Not one.

There's no staff in his home. At least he's not using it as a defence.

I know many people that use their home as an office. Not one is having a house with 20 rooms and 8 bathrooms. Not one.

Then you didn't read the Snopes article.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

I also know many people who are running offices out of their homes. None are running international environmental campaigns, though. I don't think that the staff required for that would fit into my ex's back room, nor is my ex's apartment LEED certified.

Then you didn't read the Snopes article.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

I also know many people who are running offices out of their homes. None are running international environmental campaigns, though. I don't think that the staff required for that would fit into my ex's back room, nor is my ex's apartment LEED certified.

Maybe I overlooked, but I don’t see that his staff is working in that house.

Yeah it definitely doesn't sound good. Does he produce his own electricity? If he does it soundly then it doesn't matter whether or not he uses more because he wouldn't be dependant on fossil fuels and the argument would be null and void. Still he'd have to own an entire wind farm or a massive collection of solar panels to produce that amount of electricity and somehow i doubt that he does. Either way this doesn't take away from the fact that there is a problem that we need to solve. It's just another case of do as i say, not as i do. Oh well, typical politican!

Maybe I overlooked, but I don’t see that his staff is working in that house.

Third paragraph. First sentence.

Third paragraph. First sentence.

Well. I still don't see it.

I see that he's using the house as a house and office. And that he and his wife are working in it.

But nothing about a staff.

I'm still waiting to see Cheryl Crow wipe her ass with three squares of toilet paper after taking a shit.

I'm still waiting to see Cheryl Crow wipe her ass with three squares of toilet paper after taking a shit.

Are you camped out in her bathroom?

Well. I still don't see it.

I see that he's using the house as a house and office. And that he and his wife are working in it.

But nothing about a staff.

Oh, I see. You are incapable of critical reading. Just to clarify:

The Gores are not an average family. He's an ex-VP with special security arrangements, and has live-in security staff. He and his wife both work on their many business and charitable undertakings out of their house, so they have space for offices and office staff. All that would be tough to cram in an average size house.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-roberts/talking-points-on-the-gor_b_42335.html

I'm still waiting to see Cheryl Crow wipe her ass with three squares of toilet paper after taking a shit.

Are you talking about porn again?

I would venture to say that Al Gore and his staff spend more time at home. To my knowledge, Presidents live in the White House and vacation elsewhere. :)

It's really stupid to take an electricity bill and say "higher carbon emissions; what a fat ass hypocrite". When will the conservatives learn?

I'm glad you got the point

Are you camped out in her bathroom?

She said that she does it, and that the rest of us should do it.

I might have to wear a gas mask, but I'm interested from a scientific perspective. I can't see how three squares of toilet paper can wipe an ass that has just taken a shit.

Oh, I see. You are incapable of critical reading. Just to clarify:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-roberts/talking-points-on-the-gor_b_42335.html



Are you talking about porn again?

eh???

That line is no where in your link http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

And even in the new link...

There's space for office staff is not the same as having office staff.

About his security people. It's not a squadron that is protecting him. We are talking about 1, 2 or 3 people... And are they there 24 on 24?

That doesn't explain why he using 20 times more electricity as the Average Joe.

Well. I still don't see it.

I see that he's using the house as a house and office. And that he and his wife are working in it.

But nothing about a staff.

you thinks a business can run itself with 2 people. Come on, use some damn logic and think about it. :confused:

you thinks a business can run itself with 2 people. Come on, use some damn logic and think about it. :confused:

Eh yes, it can.

Eh yes, it can.

Right. A business that consists of a former VP and his wife is run by two people. They do all the marketing, B2B, administrative, legal, etc. work on their own. I think you are being intentionally disingenuous. That's a nice way to say you are lying, deceitful, take your pick.

Edit: the work on his movie, philanthropy, is all done by he and Tipper. Hell, they are lesser Gods at this point. He should have won the Presidency then if Bush needs and entire staff at his ranch. I'm done with this. No matter how many times you point these things out to myopic people they will continue to feign ignorance. Or maybe they just are ignorant. Either way it's a waste of time..

eh???

That line is no where in your link http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

And even in the new link...

There's space for office staff is not the same as having office staff.

About his security people. It's not a squadron that is protecting him. We are talking about 1, 2 or 3 people... And are they there 24 on 24?

You have no idea as to the size of Gore's security staff. We may be talking about six people. Or even a dozen.

Any intelligent person would infer that if the Gores do a lot of work at home and they have office space for staff to work there, then they would also have the office staff working in the space.

That doesn't explain why he using 20 times more electricity as the Average Joe.

He isn't using that much electricity. As I have repeatedly pointed out, and backed up, he is using far less than that.

You have twelve cars? Why?

Why not?

Why not?

Bad resale value. If you want to put money into things for the long run, paintings and diamonds are a much better choice.

As for Gore, his message is still important, no matter how he follows it.

Bad resale value. If you want to put money into things for the long run, paintings and diamonds are a much better choice.

As for Gore, his message is still important, no matter how he follows it.

My father does not buy cars for resale value, he buys them because he likes them.

I buy my cars because I like them. I didnt buy my 07 SI, 95 Tbird or Volvo for resale value, I bought them because I like them,

My father does not buy cars for resale value, he buys them because he likes them.

I buy my cars because I like them. I didnt buy my 07 SI, 95 Tbird or Volvo for resale value, I bought them because I like them,

Just seems like you can't possibly use them all that much. My family has a car and a truck.

When did you get your 95 Tbird? And what color is it?

Just seems like you can't possibly use them all that much. My family has a car and a truck.

When did you get your 95 Tbird? And what color is it?

Its a White 1995 LX V8 with 45,000 miles on it. I'm actually driving it around more than my 07 SI kuz its more relaxing to drive.

His eight-bathroom sized little house consumed 20 times more electricity compared to the house of the average American Joe.

That's not quite true, actually. Al G*re's house has the same number of b*throoms as the average Am*rican's; however, all of his are four times as big to compensate for his fat *ss.

ECF, you and your family should stop wasting resources. Even if you don't care about the environment, or the fact that automobile emissions give kids cancer, you should at least be aware that your actions drive up the price of oil and help support terrorism.



No. His bills are not high. His electricity bill is slightly higher, or slightly lower depending on how you measure it, than the regional average, and his gas bill is less than 10% of what it was before.

Funny, I was a kid, and I don't have cancer!

Gas prices can hit 10 a gallon, and I wont care.

Right. A business that consists of a former VP and his wife is run by two people. They do all the marketing, B2B, administrative, legal, etc. work on their own. I think you are being intentionally disingenuous. That's a nice way to say you are lying, deceitful, take your pick.

Edit: the work on his movie, philanthropy, is all done by he and Tipper. Hell, they are lesser Gods at this point. He should have won the Presidency then if Bush needs and entire staff at his ranch. I'm done with this. No matter how many times you point these things out to myopic people they will continue to feign ignorance. Or maybe they just are ignorant. Either way it's a waste of time..

He made the movie on his own too. Took about 20 minutes.

Funny, I was a kid, and I don't have cancer!

Gas prices can hit 10 a gallon, and I wont care.

Okay, so you don't care about the human impact on the environment. You don't care about the automobile's impact on children's health, you don't care about the economic implications of high priced oil, and that just leaves terrorism. Should we put you down for another vote of apathy, or is that a part of car culture that you're proud of?

Meanwhile, do you have anything to add to this thread other than your apathy about Al Gore? At least that was topical, even though it added nothing to the debate.

Your argument is the tu quoque ("you too") logical fallacy. Just because his house may use a lot of electricity does not mean his information on global warming is any less truthful/valid.

The same goes for someone who gives a speech on the harms and ill effects of smoking, then walks outside after the speech and lights up. Just because he's a hypocrite does not mean he's a liar.

Gas prices can hit 10 a gallon, and I wont care.

You'd be correct if gasoline were an isolated variable with no impact on the rest of the economy; the severe economic decline produced would definitely impact everybody, even the wealthiest people in the country. It's especially true if you've got a lot of money in investments or work in any field that relies on the financial sector to some degree or another.

(However, I don't think cars cause cancer...perhaps if you were exposed to a lot of gasoline on a regular basis, but not in general)

Funny, I was a kid, and I don't have cancer!

Gas prices can hit 10 a gallon, and I wont care.

So basically you're a rich spoiled brat who thinks he deserves his fabulous wealth?

When Gore had his mansion remodled, the utility bill went up (duh) When the construction was over, it went back down. ;) Does anybody have a copies of Al's utility bills for the past couple of years to prove otherwise?

He has the right to pollute? Hell no, he doesn’t.
As an evangelist of the new environment religion, he has to behave as an example.

His staff isn't working at his home, at least he isn't using it as defence, so one may conclude that they aren't sitting in his homeplace.

One reason why his bills are very high is due the size of the house. One is wondering why you need 8 bathrooms. And 20 other rooms. No one is saying that he should move to a house in a row, but there is no reason for having such supersized house.

Ah yes, because all the other evangelists who've garnered attention did so because they were perfect, shining examples (Ted Haggard, Jerry Falwell, Jim Bakker...). Crappy analogy aside, his staff IS working in his home, and Gore has seldom defended himself against attacks like this because it's too easy. His staff does it.

I'm a tad confused..
Since Al Gore was using more power he is some evil bastard out to scam us out of $5 for his video?

I think thats a bit odd, seeing as by law as former VP he really can't die, or not have a spiffy house or whatnot

EDIT: I don't mean to sound, odd, but how is total power consumtion related to his views on global warming? Ultimately I can use 40% of average power one month, then use 160% the next, but that doesn't mean that when I go to school 1+1 now equals 7, or that hydrogen has a tendancy to go boom.
So, no offense, but I don't see a valid point coming from you.

I'm a tad confused..
Since Al Gore was using more power he is some evil bastard out to scam us out of $5 for his video?

I think thats a bit odd, seeing as by law as former VP he really can't die, or not have a spiffy house or whatnot

EDIT: I don't mean to sound, odd, but how is total power consumtion related to his views on global warming? Ultimately I can use 40% of average power one month, then use 160% the next, but that doesn't mean that when I go to school 1+1 now equals 7, or that hydrogen has a tendancy to go boom.
So, no offense, but I don't see a valid point coming from you.

He's telling the rest of us to live by using as little power as possible, stop driving our cars, stop flying on planes, and stop doing anything that produces greenhouse gases (even though, for the most part, if we all wanted to switch to an alternative, it either doesn't exist or we couldn't afford it).

He can afford to build, from the ground up, a completely self-sufficient, totally green, low ecological impact dwelling, along the lines of the Bush ranch in Crawford, Texas.

Instead, Gore buys "carbon credits" and buys his power now from a "green cooperative" and tacks on a few token solar panels.

It's called, "I'm rich, so I can pay to pollute and be bad, but I want the rest of you to fucking suffer."

Response to first post from Hairless Kitten

Ok so you complain about Al Gore. But are you doing anything to help the world's environment yourself?

At least he did his part by informing the world (well, the part of the world that is willing to listen to someone who did research and not some puppet for large oil companies like Bush). Maybe he's using a lot of electricity (which, I admit, would disappoint me. I would like to know where you got your information though.), but does this mean that his message is somehow cancelled out? I think not. We all have to take our part in preserving the environment. Not just because of global warming, but because it is our planet. There's only one Earth, and when it craps out, so do we. I hope you think of that every once in a while.

Recycle. Use less electricity. Get a gas efficient vehicle. Not because Al Gore said so (Al Gore isn't the king of environmentalists, which is what a lot of rednecks seem to believe), but because it helps to preserve our home (and for those of you who don't believe in global warming, there are plenty of other reasons. Oil drilling in Alaska is soon to come if Bush manages to pull it off. Use less oil in America, save Alaska. Also, the use of less oil means lower oil prices, for those of you who think only of yourself. And hey- my Prius gets 50+ miles to the gallon).

Sure, call me a hippie.
Just wanted to get my point of view out there.

So basically you're a rich spoiled brat who thinks he deserves his fabulous wealth?

fabulous wealth? I'm not really sure were your getting that from.

Sure, my parents are loaded. And am I going to live there until I'm done with my 4 years? You bet your ass I am.

Do they Pay for my gas?
Do they pay for my insurance?
Do they pay for my payments?
Do they pay for repairs?

Fuck no they don't. And I do all my own repairs. I work my ass off for my money, and before you ask, no I do not work for them. I work at a safety company. And will keep working there to pay my way through school.

Okay, so you don't care about the human impact on the environment. You don't care about the automobile's impact on children's health, you don't care about the economic implications of high priced oil, and that just leaves terrorism. Should we put you down for another vote of apathy, or is that a part of car culture that you're proud of?

Meanwhile, do you have anything to add to this thread other than your apathy about Al Gore? At least that was topical, even though it added nothing to the debate.

What impact? Humans do not really effect climate change.

Sorry, I was a kid at one point,never had cancer. If what you said was true kids would all be dropping dead from cancer. Hey! They aren't!

High Priced oil? Lets drill for more and get that price down, theres tons of oil up in Alaska and the gulf just there for the taking. And when we eventually run out we can think up something new.

Terrorism? Right.

So whats your idea? Have everyone ride bikes 50 miles a day to work? Sorry buddy. Thats not going to happen.

And what exactly is wrong with " car culture "? I think stuff like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu3PuCs1NuM is fucking awesome. You don't see me running around saying your hobby ( whatever it might be ) is bad for society. If you don't like car culture, thats fine.


Also, on my comments about Al Gore. Its the entire point of this thread. Why should anyone care what he does with his own money and property? Its no ones damn business.

(However, I don't think cars cause cancer...perhaps if you were exposed to a lot of gasoline on a regular basis, but not in general)

I think he is getting on more about emissions. Maybe he you locked yourself in a room with a running car and vent enough of it to not die, you might get cancer after a few years of constant inhalation.

He's telling the rest of us to live by using as little power as possible, stop driving our cars, stop flying on planes, and stop doing anything that produces greenhouse gases (even though, for the most part, if we all wanted to switch to an alternative, it either doesn't exist or we couldn't afford it).

He can afford to build, from the ground up, a completely self-sufficient, totally green, low ecological impact dwelling, along the lines of the Bush ranch in Crawford, Texas.

Instead, Gore buys "carbon credits" and buys his power now from a "green cooperative" and tacks on a few token solar panels.

It's called, "I'm rich, so I can pay to pollute and be bad, but I want the rest of you to fucking suffer."

I hear this argument a lot, and all I can think of is when did Gore actually say any of that? All I read and see is that he's sounding an alarm that something needs to be done, and it won't be at all convenient. That's the point -- we've had it soft for over half a century, and that's going to end whether we like it or not. I think Gore's saying that we can choose to do something about it, or we can watch as the consequences of our inaction pile up. I never once heard him say "stop driving" or "stop flying", and certainly not "suffer". If to stop wasting resources that can't be easily replaced is to suffer, then that's a problem with perception and perspective, not the message.

The reduction to absurdity of this argument is a typical, but very hollow, tactic used to try and rebut Gore's message.

ECF, if T. Boone Pickens, one of the biggest oilmen that ever was, says we can't drill our way out of this mess, then I'm gonna go with him. Drilling for what MIGHT be 18b bbls of oil off the coasts wouldn't have a lick of effect for 20 years, and by then, would the effect even be felt? Drilling as a solution is a fine idea if it's 1971. We had our shot to try that and didn't do it for 30+ years. It's too late now.

Fallacy: Ad Hominem



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Description of Ad Hominem
Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:


Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.
The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).
-----

Note to Global warming deniers: Shooting the messenger does not make the message go away.

But I call troll on half of this thread.

I think he is getting on more about emissions. Maybe he you locked yourself in a room with a running car and vent enough of it to not die, you might get cancer after a few years of constant inhalation.

Which is what you get when you live in a bowl like the LA valley and pave the living fuck out of it for millions of cars to sit idling for long periods on the freeway.

What impact? Humans do not really effect climate change.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1130501.stm

Sir John was for years director of the UK Meteorological Office, and is a former chairman of the UK Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution.

He has been co-chairing the working group's meeting in Shanghai, China, which agreed the report. Speaking to BBC News Online from Shanghai, Sir John said: "I don't feel personally there can be any doubt about the human effect on climate

Sorry, I was a kid at one point,never had cancer. If what you said was true kids would all be dropping dead from cancer. Hey! They aren't!

http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/0001488/48/
Childhood cancers have today been linked to levels of pollution from car exhausts. Researchers have found that higher numbers of children developed and died from cancer in pollution hotspots.

And the highest risk of cancer for children is caused by living within 0.3 kilometers of a chemical emissions hotspot and within 1km of an emissions source -- such as a transport hub.

High Priced oil? Lets drill for more and get that price down, theres tons of oil up in Alaska and the gulf just there for the taking. And when we eventually run out we can think up something new.

Can you please look up the concepts of 'peak oil' and 'supply and demand'? After you understand some of the basic concepts, you can come back and add something useful to the debate.

Terrorism? Right.

http://www.terrorfreeoil.org/companies.php
Look! A whole website that deals exclusively on how to avoid supporting terrorism with your oil dollars!

So whats your idea? Have everyone ride bikes 50 miles a day to work? Sorry buddy. Thats not going to happen.

So what's your idea? Everyone owns four cars and we all pretend that none of these problems are happening? Oh wait, your idea is to be apathetic.


And what exactly is wrong with " car culture "? I think stuff like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu3PuCs1NuM is fucking awesome. You don't see me running around saying your hobby ( whatever it might be ) is bad for society. If you don't like car culture, thats fine.

That's because my hobbies aren't bad for society. Yours are.

Also, on my comments about Al Gore. Its the entire point of this thread. Why should anyone care what he does with his own money and property? Its no ones damn business.

Then don't participate in the thread. No one's forcing you to post.

Fallacy: Ad Hominem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

Hypocrisy (or the state of being a hypocrite) is the act of preaching a certain belief or way of life, but not, in fact, holding these same virtues oneself. For example, a teacher telling students they should not plagiarize, while secretly being a plagiarist himself. Hypocrisy is frequently invoked as an accusation in many contexts.

For linguist and social analyst Noam Chomsky, hypocrisy, defined as the refusal to "...apply to ourselves the same standards we apply to others"[1][2] is one of the central evils of our society--promoting injustices such as war[3][4] and social inequalities in a framework of self-deception, which includes the notion that hypocrisy itself is a necessary or beneficial part of human behavior and society.[5] [6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy

Proof by Assertion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion)

Pay no attention to the ass-reaming DK's points gets, you're not supposed to notice that every time he brings them up again!

Proof by Assertion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion)

Pay no attention to the ass-reaming DK's points gets, you're not supposed to notice that every time he brings them up again!

Unfortunately, snopes backs me up on this one.

Unfortunately, snopes backs me up on this one.

OKay, let's see the Snopes article that declares that illogical arguments are actually logical.

I'll bet Al Gore can spell "risen."

...yeah, Snopes doesn't really support the use of logical fallacies after all, does it.

...yeah, Snopes doesn't really support the use of logical fallacies after all, does it.

It shows Gore is being a hypocrite.

It shows Gore is being a hypocrite.

It doesn't make "UR A HYPOCRITE LOL" a valid argument, as The Lone Alliance has already pointed out. Try to keep up: you're not as good at saying rational things as you are at creaming your jeans about killing Muslims.

Al Whore is more like it!!:rolleyes:

It doesn't make "UR A HYPOCRITE LOL" a valid argument, as The Lone Alliance has already pointed out. Try to keep up: you're not as good at saying rational things as you are at creaming your jeans about killing Muslims.

My argument is that he is a hypocrite.

I'm not saying that global warming is wrong. I actually believe in global warming.

My argument is that he is a hypocrite, and it's true, and you can't use "ad hominem" as an excuse.

You lose.

My argument is that he is a hypocrite.

I'm not saying that global warming is wrong. I actually believe in global warming.

My argument is that he is a hypocrite, and it's true, and you can't use "ad hominem" as an excuse.

You lose.

Considering the fact that he has personally invested millions of dollars into making his home environmentally friendly in a variety of ways, I don't see how Al Gore is being a hypocrite.

My argument is that he is a hypocrite.

I'm not saying that global warming is wrong.

Yeah? Then what? See, you don't post like this unless you're attempting to attack some generalized group - Muslims, victims of war crimes, Democrats. Which is it this time?

My argument is that he is a hypocrite, and it's true, and you can't use "ad hominem" as an excuse.

"Ad hominem" would be a valid description of your argument, if you were actually arguing something meaningful. Apparently you're not.

You lose.

Don't bust a nut in your jeans again, you haven't killed any Muslims here.

Yeah? Then what? See, you don't post like this unless you're attempting to attack some generalized group - Muslims, victims of war crimes, Democrats. Which is it this time?

Your only method of "argument" seems to be ad hominem. But I'm sure the irony is lost on you.

Al Gore is a hypocrite. He should practice what he preaches.

I'll bet Al Gore can spell "risen."Like our daily bread, which represents his body, which we'll consume. :)

I guess this proves there's no such thing as global warming.

Actually if you study Psychology you'll see that just because the person who presented a topic isn't a good source, doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist. It just means that Al Gore was probably using the threat of Global Warming to line his own pockets, but it doesn't mean his message was false about it's severity or dangers.

Like our daily bread, which represents his body, which we'll consume. :)

Gore is too fat, unless you are thinking of smoked bacon.

I think he is getting on more about emissions. Maybe he you locked yourself in a room with a running car and vent enough of it to not die, you might get cancer after a few years of constant inhalation.

It's a good thing you are going to college. While you are there you should take as many science3 courses as possible. I suggest you take a bit of genetics, pathology, and environmental effects of living organisms. Perhaps then you'll have a better basis from which to argue. As for me, I used to say save the Earth. Now I take from George Carlin and say, "the planet will be fine, it's the people that are fucked." This doesn't excuse you from not understanding the effect of known carcinogens on living creatures.

It's a good thing you are going to college. While you are there you should take as many science3 courses as possible. I suggest you take a bit of genetics, pathology, and environmental effects of living organisms. Perhaps then you'll have a better basis from which to argue. As for me, I used to say save the Earth. Now I take from George Carlin and say, "the planet will be fine, it's the people that are fucked." This doesn't excuse you from not understanding the effect of known carcinogens on living creatures.

Yes, it's people like you who told us to drink sugar in our soda instead of artificial sweetners. As if the risk of cancer from the sweetners was anywhere near as high as the risk of getting diabetes.

Toxicology would be a better place to start.

Known carcinogens are not all equal in their effects across all animals. The Syrian golden hamster is proof enough of that. Many humans studies failed to observe the same cancers in humans that were provoked in the SGH - and vice versa.

There's also a minimum threshold that has to be passed in order to have an effect.

Then there are synergistic effects - take asbestos (be specific about which form, please) and tobacco smoke - far more effective in inducing mesothelioma than asbestos alone.

Or the form the chemical takes - encapsulated asbestos, for instance, is harmless.

Yes, it's people like you who told us to drink sugar in our soda instead of artificial sweetners.....Or the form the chemical takes - encapsulated asbestos, for instance, is harmless.

The link between automobile emissions and increased likelihood of disease is well established.

http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/Media/pressrel/r010221.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/medical_notes/336738.stm
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=34461
http://www.adb.org/vehicle-emissions/General/Health-pm.asp

Your only method of "argument" seems to be ad hominem.

Untrue, but I suppose one could argue that it's true if "seems" is purely relative to your own trollishly narrowed viewpoint.

Even if it were true, the fact that you continue to blather your own points (often when they have been soundly refuted) and ignore rebuttals (such as the one gift-of-god just provided) tells me you live for and love the most, the so-called ad hominems. It probably makes you feel kind of powerful, eh?

Yes, it's people like you who told us to drink sugar in our soda instead of artificial sweetners. As if the risk of cancer from the sweetners was anywhere near as high as the risk of getting diabetes.

*snip*

That does not follow. Any connection cane sugar soda has to diabetes has to do with vast overconsumption (much like any risks for the artificial sweeteners).

fabulous wealth? I'm not really sure were your getting that from.

Sure, my parents are loaded. And am I going to live there until I'm done with my 4 years? You bet your ass I am.

Do they Pay for my gas?
Do they pay for my insurance?
Do they pay for my payments?
Do they pay for repairs?

Fuck no they don't. And I do all my own repairs. I work my ass off for my money, and before you ask, no I do not work for them. I work at a safety company. And will keep working there to pay my way through school.

You said yourself that your family owns twelve cars. No one who doesn't have enough money that they can waste it stupid and unnecessary luxuries like that does. Unless of course most of them are on cinder blocks, which I highly doubt. Everybody who isn't the insufferable spoiled brat child of wealthy parents has folks who have to put their money towards more practical purposes than owning so many cars that they could drive a different one each week. Not even the richest people I know have that many cars. I think the family I know that has the most has four, and everybody else thinks that's a lot.

You get free room and board. I bet your 4 years are free, too. You work a cush job while pretending to be a "working man." Nobody's impressed.

Gore is too fat, unless you are thinking of smoked bacon.
Be discerning as to which parts you consume, of course.