NationStates Jolt Archive

I don't know a lot about the specifics of firearm registration, serial numbers, etc., so I want to get the opinions of NSG's resident gun enthusiasts on this idea that popped into my head.

My understanding (which may be completely wrong,) is that every gun has a serial number stamped on it before it leaves the manufacturer, and also that every gun is test-fired at least once. So wouldn't it be relatively simple to enter the spent bullet and/or casing into the national ballistics information database (which I think is called NIBIN in the US and uses the IBIS format) before the gun ever leaves the factory?

I would think that this would be some small help in solving crimes -- if the police are investigating a shooting, it's much more likely that they have the bullet and possibly casings to examine than they have the actual gun. It would be much more help in gathering data about black-market gun sales -- for instance, if a lot of bullets showing up in crimes in City A come from guns manufactured in City B on week X, then that tips police in City A to a pattern they might never see otherwise, even if they eventually recovered some of the guns used.

Since the NIBIN data would be linked to the gun's serial number before the gun is owned by anyone, I don't see an obvious violation of the eventual gun owner's privacy.

I realize that this isn't a no-cost proposal, but various agencies have already spent tons of cash for the equipment to run NIBIN, the added cost is basically for trained labor & server space.

Also, I realize that if someone wanted to fool the system they could alter the gun in some way -- change the barrel and the firing pin, maybe? But how easy is this to do, practically? How likely is Mr. Random Criminal to have the knowhow to change the barrel & pin on his Saturday Night Special?

I ran this by my spouse, who thought that such an idea had been proposed but was nixed by gun manufacturers who didn't like the idea of being able to link their products to crimes. This seems a patently silly objection, but perhaps that's the case.

So, thoughts?

1. Barrels wear over time. So the initial signature may very well not match a later one. Cleaning rods are especially good at marring a barrel and crown without the user knowing it - completely invalidating any possible match.

2. Serial numbers are on the receiver, as most barrels are replaceable wear items. Most of my semi-automatic pistols have three or four spare barrels. I could easily buy another barrel through the mail, because a barrel is NOT a firearm - it's a tube made of metal.

3. None of these schemes will locate a firearm. Gun registration nationwide would be like touching the third rail of politics. It may also be unconstitutional, because national registration historically leads to confiscation - which is recently ruled to be unconstitutional in and of itself.

4. As an example of "I can't locate the firearm", you have the serial number and fired bullet. Well, I've changed the barrel, sold the used one to someone else, he commits a crime with his gun (and my old barrel) and now the police think it's my gun - but when they fire my gun, it doesn't match because I have a new barrel, and I don't have accurate data on who I sold the old barrel to.

Two comments:

1) There are many countries were weapons have been registered for ages and never have been confiscated.

2) Serials in the barrel may not work. But there are other ways to locate a gun. In Japan they were going to put chips on them, but the number of guns was so small that it didnt make sense.

Since the NIBIN data would be linked to the gun's serial number before the gun is owned by anyone, I don't see an obvious violation of the eventual gun owner's privacy.

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

You know, I did say from the outset that I didn't know much about the issue, and I was looking for input. Perhaps I should have specified that "input" didn't include childish sarcasm?

Or are you suggesting that serial numbers shouldn't be tied to any specific information about a gun? By analogy, VINs are also an invasion of privacy because they code for specific information about the car?

1. Barrels wear over time. So the initial signature may very well not match a later one. Cleaning rods are especially good at marring a barrel and crown without the user knowing it - completely invalidating any possible match.

2. Serial numbers are on the receiver, as most barrels are replaceable wear items. Most of my semi-automatic pistols have three or four spare barrels. I could easily buy another barrel through the mail, because a barrel is NOT a firearm - it's a tube made of metal.

3. None of these schemes will locate a firearm. Gun registration nationwide would be like touching the third rail of politics. It may also be unconstitutional, because national registration historically leads to confiscation - which is recently ruled to be unconstitutional in and of itself.

4. As an example of "I can't locate the firearm", you have the serial number and fired bullet. Well, I've changed the barrel, sold the used one to someone else, he commits a crime with his gun (and my old barrel) and now the police think it's my gun - but when they fire my gun, it doesn't match because I have a new barrel, and I don't have accurate data on who I sold the old barrel to.

Let's compare with cars... Like guns, some people use cars for their work, and others for recreation.

1. Tyres wear over time. So the initial signature may very well not match a later one. Turning & breaking are especially good at marring a tread without the user knowing it - completely invalidating any possible match.

2. Serial numbers are on the chassis, as tyres are replaceable wear items. Most of my cars have three or four sets of spare tyres. I could easily buy another set of tyres through the mail, because a tyre is NOT a car - it's a truck-load of rubber.

3. None of these schemes will locate a car. Car registration nationwide would be like touching the third rail of politics. It may also be unconstitutional, because national registration historically leads to confiscation - which is recently ruled to be unconstitutional in and of itself.

4. As an example of "I can't locate the car", you have the serial number and tread marks. Well, I've changed the tyres, sold the used ones to someone else, he commits a crime with his car (and my old tyres) and now the police think it's my car - but when they test my car, it doesn't match because I have new tyres, and I don't have accurate data on who I sold the old tyres to.

Yes, all perfect reasons against a car registry, or not?

The state of Maryland established this system and the police have now called for it to be ended because it solved zero crimes at the cost of over $2m. The CA DOJ did a study and found the technique wasn't feasable for crime prevention. IIRC, NY is the only state still running one.

As has been mentioned, the ballistics of a barrel change over time. It fails unless a cartridge by the same manufacturer from the same batch is used.

BTW, a national registration is against the law as per FOPA .