NationStates Jolt Archive

I logged in this morning and noticed that I had been sent a personal message asking me to tone down my language and pointing me to the words I have used to express my ummm dislike for Londons bus drivers.

Which is all cool, I will of course obide by any rules of moderation here, but it did get me thinking about my usage of swear words.

I cuss and curse quite freqeuntly when Im talking with adult friends, and I find that a well placed 'Fuck' or '****' gets accross the emotion behind the words better than a whole slew of errrr milder words.

I see swearing as an every day tool of everyday language and so am not really phased when others use such words in fron of me, after all it's only a word, but what do you think?

Are we too sensitive to cuss words?

*shrugs*

I save the big ones for when I'm REALLY pissed off at something, but the everyday stuff like "fuck" and "bloody" gets good use on a daily basis, really.

And the Irish are so poetic when it comes to calling people names, too... :D
I had my driving instructor nearly passing out with laughter the other day when I called another driver a "feckin eejit!!!"

I tend to avoid swearing if I can, it just makes you sound crude and vulgar. That and regular usage ruins the effect the words can have in terms of say, abating some of your anger.

On a vaguely related topic I'm going to try and learn like Three or Four more languages...

Some are, some are not.
I would not ban the use of curse words just as I would not feel comfortable talking with someone who uses one or two in every sentence.
I can imagine that it might be a bit of a shock for someone that doesn't curse to hear someone else curse all the time (even when there's no reason to).
Personally, I almost never use curse words but I don't freak out when someone else uses them (though it does influence my opinion on them).
For the sake of free speech, let people curse how much they want. (But they should be prepared when they're not taken too seriously because of that.)

The main adjective and verb/adverb of the language chavs use seems to be swear words...

The way I see it, is that curse words are just words.
That people have assigned a negative connotation to. (more so than it would normally entail)
Most likely a remnant of old christianity, where "taking the lords name in vain",
and using "obscene,forbidden and dirty" words were viewed with disgust.

I don't tend to use such words myself to often,
but when the shit hits the fan, so to say,
they are a very good outlet.

I cuss and curse quite freqeuntly when Im talking with adult friends, and I find that a well placed 'Fuck' or '****' gets accross the emotion behind the words better than a whole slew of errrr milder words.

I think you should check moderation and perhaps edit your choice of words in the OP, or you might get another TG.

Not saying I agree with it, just that it might be an idea to have a look.

Are we too sensitive to cuss words?

I don't tend to notice people doing it in adult conversation unless it is excessive, at which point I think it sounds stupid (eg Gordon Ramsey). I don't like people swearing around children, for much the same reason I don't swear myself - I think they are unattractive, lazy words. English is already a language full of colourful descriptions, words and metaphors, something people seem to forget in preference for the all-encompassing 'fuck'.

no we're not sensitive enough

that is why you are not satisfied calling the bus driver a "stupid git"

no we're not sensitive enough

that is why you are not satisfied calling the bus driver a "stupid git"

Well both of those words do not convey either my feelings or the bus drivers actions.

He was being more spitefull, than stupid, and he was certianly not just being gittish.

Wh do you say we are not sensitive enough though, what about swear words do you not like, and more importantly why?

Well both of those words do not convey either my feelings or the bus drivers actions.

He was being more spitefull, than stupid, and he was certianly not just being gittish.

Wh do you say we are not sensitive enough though, what about swear words do you not like, and more importantly why?

swear words dont bother me online.

if you were more sensitive you would find milder words offensive enough to express your disgust.

its not as though the bus driver is in any way properly referred to as a ****. you used the most offensive word that popped into your head. if "bastard" were still offensive, you would have used that since it is more correct when used toward a man.

your over use of swear words means that you must up the offense ante in order to get the same swearing satisfaction that you used to get for less rough words.

swear words dont bother me online.

if you were more sensitive you would find milder words offensive enough to express your disgust.

its not as though the bus driver is in any way properly referred to as a ****. you used the most offensive word that popped into your head. if "bastard" were still offensive, you would have used that since it is more correct when used toward a man.

your over use of swear words means that you must up the offense ante in order to get the same swearing satisfaction that you used to get for less rough words.

Heh you may have something there.

Heh you may have something there.

of course i do!

i did check the mod forum to see what was said about you. (stupid whiners, the lot of them) i thought that ardchoille had an excellent explanation of how this kind of thing might work.

Bah, I can't remember anyone complaining about my language after I reached adulthood. Think my mother gave up after that :rolleyes:

I don't really see what's the big deal either. It all depends on situation, too, though. I certainly wouldn't go swearing in a formal situation, but in conversations between friends I do. A lot.

of course i do!

i did check the mod forum to see what was said about you. (stupid whiners, the lot of them) i thought that ardchoille had an excellent explanation of how this kind of thing might work.

Ohhh really I'd like a lil looksee of that meself, can I do that?

Ohhh really I'd like a lil looksee of that meself, can I do that?

if i can, you can.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=560326

if i can, you can.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=560326

Meh seems, fair enough to me.

Lived up north so long that swearing has become extremely casual. This is perhaps not a good thing :p

(for example : upon meeting friends, standard greeting is "Y'allright, dick'ead?")

Lived up north so long that swearing has become extremely casual. This is perhaps not a good thing :p

(for example : upon meeting friends, standard greeting is "Y'allright, dick'ead?")

Thats the standard around Britain, not just up north ;)

Meh seems, fair enough to me.

their biggest concern is to keep objectionable material out of the thread titles. because the most recently posted in threads are on the nationstates page they can get booted out of school programs if those titles have bad words in them. thats a bad thing.

their biggest concern is to keep objectionable material out of the thread titles. because the most recently posted in threads are on the nationstates page they can get booted out of school programs if those titles have bad words in them. thats a bad thing.

:eek:

i thought that ardchoille had an excellent explanation of how this kind of thing might work.
Ardchoille's street & busker analogy is nice :)

The forum rules (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=410573) state that before posting (a thread, but it should hold for any individual post, too) a poster should "Think of it this way… if you are about to make a thread in General, will it offend anyone? Can it be labeled any worse than PG?". A cap at PG rating would preclude any of the in-depth discussions that we see on here regarding drug-use, violence, use of language, et cetera.

The mods certainly have their work cut out for them on this issue, and it's not helped by self-appointed wannabe hall monitors who start threads in the mod forum at the drop of a hat every single time they come across something that they perceive as an infraction (in the case of the complainant in this instance, there've been 33 separate complaint threads raised in Moderation since late April - 73% of their threads, in fact). We're often told that we should develop a thicker skin, and I think that's all that's needed here, excepting Ardchoille's note that the opening post and titles should be held to a higher standard.

I can't help feeling, overall, that the whole idea of trying to manage thread content according to some arbitrary rules that are used in the USA for classifying films -- as per the forum rules and guidelines -- is doomed. Peepelonia's choice of words to describe a bus driver would probbaly be classed by the MPAA (http://www.mpaa.org/FlmRat_Ratings.asp) as a "single use of one of the harsher sexually-derived words, though only as an expletive" and thus the thread, if it were a film, would require "at least a PG-13 rating." However, those same classifications would require an 'R' rating if there was more than one use of the word. Threads (obviously) cannot be classified in the same way as films since there's no way to analyse them in their entirety before they've happened.

It's also worth noting that the use of language, and the degree to which some people will find it offensive, varies wildly around the world. "****" is a word that many people seem to find particularly offensive, and yet it's a word that I would expect to hear several times on any given trip to any city in the UK, so it's obviously regularly used. It's not a word I use often, but I don't find it any more offensive than any other turn of phrase.

...and now I'll stop this rambling mess.

I only cuss when another word is insufficient to make my point. It's rare. Although, I don't consider cuss words "bad" only sometimes inappropriate.

It doesn't bother me for my children to say that someone is an "ass" because well, a lot of time people are being very donkey-like. I don't care if they say something "sucks" or "kicks" because the connotation of those words has nothing to do with what other grown ups attach.

I don't often drop the F-bomb because it's.....not as useful as other words. I wonder what Cabra thinks is worse though :eek:

I only cuss when another word is insufficient to make my point. It's rare. Although, I don't consider cuss words "bad" only sometimes inappropriate.

It doesn't bother me for my children to say that someone is an "ass" because well, a lot of time people are being very donkey-like. I don't care if they say something "sucks" or "kicks" because the connotation of those words has nothing to do with what other grown ups attach.

I don't often drop the F-bomb because it's.....not as useful as other words. I wonder what Cabra thinks is worse though :eek:

I think it always depends on the context. Everything always does. ;)

But I have to say that the F-word seems to be considered a lot worse in the USA than it does over here, although, again, it depends on context.
You can easily tell people to "fuck off", and very few will take offense. "Shut the fuck up" on the other hand is rather offensive.

And "feck" is something even the most conservative old ladies would say.

And "feck" is something even the most conservative old ladies would say.
Indeed. Father Ted Crilly, we thank thee. :p

I think it always depends on the context. Everything always does. ;)

But I have to say that the F-word seems to be considered a lot worse in the USA than it does over here, although, again, it depends on context.
You can easily tell people to "fuck off", and very few will take offense. "Shut the fuck up" on the other hand is rather offensive.

And "feck" is something even the most conservative old ladies would say.

True using Fuck generally isn't a big deal in Britain.

Indeed. Father Ted Crilly, we thank thee. :p

Nah, I'm sure they said it even before that show ;)

Nah, I'm sure they said it even before that show ;)
Y'reckon? Perhaps you're right, although I can't say I noticed it before. Maybe it just made it more mainstream :)

Thats the standard around Britain, not just up north.
Not in Gloucestershire or Oxfordshire, two places I used to live in.

I think it always depends on the context. Everything always does. ;)

But I have to say that the F-word seems to be considered a lot worse in the USA than it does over here, although, again, it depends on context.
You can easily tell people to "fuck off", and very few will take offense. "Shut the fuck up" on the other hand is rather offensive.

And "feck" is something even the most conservative old ladies would say.

Context is key. I can think of more offensive things to say, however, not specific words.

Personally I find euphemistic words more offensive than cuss words.

The uh.......C-word bothers me, a LOT. I think that the OP could find a less offensive term to use....but if he feels it expresses his opinion best, I guess I can't say much, I mean it's supposed to offend right?

Context is key. I can think of more offensive things to say, however, not specific words.

Personally I find euphemistic words more offensive than cuss words.

The uh.......C-word bothers me, a LOT. I think that the OP could find a less offensive term to use....but if he feels it expresses his opinion best, I guess I can't say much, I mean it's supposed to offend right?


Na na na na, and that the pointof this thread. I do't find using the C word offensive or the F word for that matter, perhaps it is a Brit thing or a London thing I dunno.

My intent when I either word is moe to hightlight my own feelings on the matter than to insult or offend. I didn't call the bus driver a ****, but I thought 'what a ****!'

Context is key. I can think of more offensive things to say, however, not specific words.

Personally I find euphemistic words more offensive than cuss words.

The uh.......C-word bothers me, a LOT. I think that the OP could find a less offensive term to use....but if he feels it expresses his opinion best, I guess I can't say much, I mean it's supposed to offend right?

The only thing that bothers me about that word is that by using it on a guy, you insult women more than anyone else really.

But then again, I usually don't call people names to their faces. I just shout at my screen/the car in question/people on the news, etc.

Na na na na, and that the pointof this thread. I do't find using the C word offensive or the F word for that matter, perhaps it is a Brit thing or a London thing I dunno.

My intent when I either word is moe to hightlight my own feelings on the matter than to insult or offend. I didn't call the bus driver a ****, but I thought 'what a ****!'

Being that I have a **** and don't see it as bad, dirty, wrong, evil, etc. People using that word as an insult, bothers me.

Not saying you can't, just saying I lose a little respect for people who do.

Being that I have a **** and don't see it as bad, dirty, wrong, evil, etc. People using that word as an insult, bothers me.

Not saying you can't, just saying I lose a little respect for people who do.

Well the same can be said about using the word 'dick' as an insult *shrug* don't bother me though.

Well the same can be said about using the word 'dick' as an insult *shrug* don't bother me though.

How many women have you ever called a "dick"? ;)

How many women have you ever called a "dick"? ;)

Bwhahah heh enough, I see both words as gender neutral, I mean when using then as inults.

Bwhahah heh enough, I see both words as gender neutral, I mean when using then as inults.

They are gender neutral, but i don't use "dick" as an insult, because its not exactly insulting and its to dull to be much of a insult.

I so seldom raise my voice or swear at work that dropping a simple, quiet, "I don't know what the hell you were thinking" pretty much shocks my students -- who may have been calling each other fucking scumbags ten seconds earlier -- into silence.

In the car, though -- don't ride with me if you don't like the scent of ozone. I don't yell, but the profanity flows rather fluidly.

I like to treat swearing like they do in the Back to the Future movies. Save it for when there's just no better way to say something. The Doc goes on and on about the science of his time machine in eloquent terminology, and then when Marty asks what happens when the DeLorean reaches 88 mph, he replies "We're gonna see some serious shit."

Hmm. You'd think there are more then 26 swearwords; but the way people refer to them, the C-word, the F-word, the S-word, you really can't have more, can you?
And what would the X-word or Q-word be?

It's amazing that there even are taboo words.

How is it that a word with a certain meaning is obscene, but a word with the exact same meaning isn't?

There's the S word, for example. You can say Dung in polite company, all you want. It means the SAME!

So if the problem isn't the meaning, what is it? The sound? In that case, why is the S word bad but words that sound almost the same, like Chit or Ship, totally harmless?

Take away a word's meaning, and it's sound, and what's left? Is a word vulgar only because people want it to be?

It's weird. Steven Pinker's "The Stuff of Thought" has the only rational explanation I've ever seen. I'm not 100% convinced, but I haven't seen other compelling explanations to compare against.

I like to treat swearing like they do in the Back to the Future movies. Save it for when there's just no better way to say something. The Doc goes on and on about the science of his time machine in eloquent terminology, and then when Marty asks what happens when the DeLorean reaches 88 mph, he replies "We're gonna see some serious shit."


I had this realization 9-1-2001, when I happened to be in Lower Manhattan. It occured to me that if I wasted the phrase "Holy Fucking Shit" on lesser events, there would be no words left for what I was seeing. So I haven't used it since.

You see, words are like bullets....

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/southpark/images/thumb/2/2d/With_Apologies_to_Jesse_Jackson.JPG/200px-With_Apologies_to_Jesse_Jackson.JPG

It's amazing that there even are taboo words.The ability of people to be offended at anything has long since stopped amazing me.

Take away a word's meaning, and it's sound, and what's left? Is a word vulgar only because people want it to be?Yes and no, it's vulgar because it is used that way. It becomes vulgar because it is used as a vulgar word. (Which actually comes very close to the overall line of thought in part one of Wittgenstein's Philosophical Investigations; often paraphrased as "meaning = use").

It's weird. Steven Pinker's "The Stuff of Thought" has the only rational explanation I've ever seen.Well, what is it, then?

Yes and no, it's vulgar because it is used that way. It becomes vulgar because it is used as a vulgar word.

I thought that might be the case. Oh, Nutclusters.



It's weird. Steven Pinker's "The Stuff of Thought" has the only rational explanation I've ever seen. I'm not 100% convinced, but I haven't seen other compelling explanations to compare against.


Well, what is it, then?

It's complex, it would be hard to do it justice, and I'd probably get half of it wrong in trying.

It has to do with vulgarity actually being processed differently in the brain, compared with normal language.

A bit from an interview:
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/allinthemind/stories/2007/2067351.htm

I use swear words when they fit better, or when I'm with my friends joking around.

I even gave this lecture to my students. I play music while they're writing. One time a song came on that wasn't supposed to be on that playlist which said "fuck". So after lunch, I explained that certain words, such as fuck or shit do have a time to be used, but are not appropriate for school used. Then I gave them the example of "I don't like you", "I hate you", "screw you", and "fuck you". They all give a similar concept, but to varying degrees. Use the one that is appropriate to setting and emotion.

Hmm. You'd think there are more then 26 swearwords; but the way people refer to them, the C-word, the F-word, the S-word, you really can't have more, can you?
And what would the X-word or Q-word be?

Hmmm... Q word = Queer? Queen?

I see frequent swearing and habitual use of obscenity as evidence of lack of imagination. Swear words are like spices, to be effective they need to be used sparingly and appropriately.

I personally like what I call creative cursing. Instead of telling someone to F*ck off, develop a vocabulary that will say the same thing withoug using words that could offend someone. It's especially effective if you can provoke laughter at the same time. Try, for instance, "May your armpits and crotch become infested with the fleas of a thousand dogs. May your fingernails then fall off leaving you nothing with which to scratch." Or try "May a large bird defecate on your birthday cake." There's provocative imagery, the person knows how you feel about him/her, others are amused. It may be wordy, but it's just as effective as "f*ck you, c*nt and a lot more fun.

I personally like what I call creative cursing. Instead of telling someone to F*ck off, develop a vocabulary that will say the same thing withoug using words that could offend someone. It's especially effective if you can provoke laughter at the same time. Try, for instance, "May your armpits and crotch become infested with the fleas of a thousand dogs. May your fingernails then fall off leaving you nothing with which to scratch." Or try "May a large bird defecate on your birthday cake."

To be honest, if someone said that to me, I'd think they were a) not serious and b) a tool.

I see frequent swearing and habitual use of obscenity as evidence of lack of imagination. Swear words are like spices, to be effective they need to be used sparingly and appropriately.

I personally like what I call creative cursing. Instead of telling someone to F*ck off, develop a vocabulary that will say the same thing withoug using words that could offend someone. It's especially effective if you can provoke laughter at the same time. Try, for instance, "May your armpits and crotch become infested with the fleas of a thousand dogs. May your fingernails then fall off leaving you nothing with which to scratch." Or try "May a large bird defecate on your birthday cake." There's provocative imagery, the person knows how you feel about him/her, others are amused. It may be wordy, but it's just as effective as "f*ck you, c*nt and a lot more fun.

I fear that if I tried such flowery wording the threatening effect I would be aiming for wouldn't work

To be honest, if someone said that to me, I'd think they were a) not serious and b) a tool.

It would be answer 'b' every time from my point of view

I swear a fair amount in everyday speech, but that of course is with people I know well. I try not to swear too much on NSG because it doesn't seem... very mature, I guess. I don't swear when debating unless I've really lost my cool, and if I've lost my cool I've lost the debate, really.

I've noticed with some of my Brit/NZ friends that certain words I never say are much more a part of their regular speech. I believe you used one of them. I find certain words very offensive and might ask someone not to use them when speaking to me, and because of this I try to be sensitive to other people and think about the words I use, and I will modify my language within reason to be respectful of others.

The only time it's really ever a problem is the occasional incident when I trip/run into something/drop something on my foot while teaching. It's almost automatic to let out a "motherfucking son of a whore!" when that happens, so I've trained myself to swear in another language or bite my lip hard.

Hmm. You'd think there are more then 26 swearwords; but the way people refer to them, the C-word, the F-word, the S-word, you really can't have more, can you?
And what would the X-word or Q-word be?

My mother, who swears quite a bit, once asked in surprise, "Did (so-and-so) just say the fuck-word?"

After I got done laughing I said, "You mean the f-word?"

My mother, who swears quite a bit, once asked in surprise, "Did (so-and-so) just say the fuck-word?"

After I got done laughing I said, "You mean the f-word?"

:p

I personally am not a swearer in Real-life. In real-life, I've yet to swear. However, I feel that on NSG it seems to help get my message across on sensitive topics.

Ardchoille's street & busker analogy is nice :)

The forum rules (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=410573) state that before posting (a thread, but it should hold for any individual post, too) a poster should "Think of it this way… if you are about to make a thread in General, will it offend anyone? Can it be labeled any worse than PG?". A cap at PG rating would preclude any of the in-depth discussions that we see on here regarding drug-use, violence, use of language, et cetera.

The mods certainly have their work cut out for them on this issue, and it's not helped by self-appointed wannabe hall monitors who start threads in the mod forum at the drop of a hat every single time they come across something that they perceive as an infraction (in the case of the complainant in this instance, there've been 33 separate complaint threads raised in Moderation since late April - 73% of their threads, in fact). We're often told that we should develop a thicker skin, and I think that's all that's needed here, excepting Ardchoille's note that the opening post and titles should be held to a higher standard.

I can't help feeling, overall, that the whole idea of trying to manage thread content according to some arbitrary rules that are used in the USA for classifying films -- as per the forum rules and guidelines -- is doomed. Peepelonia's choice of words to describe a bus driver would probbaly be classed by the MPAA (http://www.mpaa.org/FlmRat_Ratings.asp) as a "single use of one of the harsher sexually-derived words, though only as an expletive" and thus the thread, if it were a film, would require "at least a PG-13 rating." However, those same classifications would require an 'R' rating if there was more than one use of the word. Threads (obviously) cannot be classified in the same way as films since there's no way to analyse them in their entirety before they've happened.

It's also worth noting that the use of language, and the degree to which some people will find it offensive, varies wildly around the world. "****" is a word that many people seem to find particularly offensive, and yet it's a word that I would expect to hear several times on any given trip to any city in the UK, so it's obviously regularly used. It's not a word I use often, but I don't find it any more offensive than any other turn of phrase.

...and now I'll stop this rambling mess.

Well fuck the MPAA. They're all a bunch of cunts. :p

I really do not mind swearing, unless it's directeed at me. This goes for any other "negative" word. If nobody got offended at words like "dick" "shit" or "****" then they'd be ordinary, everyday words (like they are for me >.>) and nobody would bat an eye. If we used other words to describe what we're feeling or how silly someone's words are or how we feel about George Bush's presidency, they'd have the same effect as cusswords.

I do however think that because the words bring about the reaction they do, it's best that thread titles and OPs are held to a higher standard than the rest of the thread. Just because kids do use this for school and stuff.

:p

I personally am not a swearer in Real-life. In real-life, I've yet to swear. However, I feel that on NSG it seems to help get my message across on sensitive topics.

You've never cursed aloud? Really? Wow. That's impressive, just because of how difficult it seems. I broke my non-cursing streak at 2. ;)

I curse with varying frequencies in different situations. Around small children or in professional settings, never; among friends, perhaps a medium amount - mostly the relatively "tame" words (damn, hell, ass, etc.) with the occasional "fucking" thrown in as an emphatic modifier. I am not particularly offended by any curse words, but I personally choose not to use certain words - most notably "****" and "cocksucker" because I find their offensiveness itself offensive, as Smunkee already explained, and because they wander too close to being slurs against specific groups for my comfort.

You've never cursed aloud? Really? Wow. That's impressive, just because of how difficult it seems. I broke my non-cursing streak at 2. ;)
Yeah, I'm just not a swearer. The rest of my family however....


Well, let's just say my Grandfather was a Marine, and it evidently rubbed off :p.

I work in the field of construction and engineering.

Just GUESS how much I curse. :p

Billy Connolly puts it so well (http://youtube.com/watch?v=skwTGJA_Iy4)

I work in the field of construction and engineering.

Just GUESS how much I curse. :p

120 SPM? (Swears per second):D

I was kicked out of a softball game because I said the word "damn".

I was kicked out of a softball game because I said the word "damn".You couldn't get out by claiming you said "dam"? or "them"?
Or aren't you allowed to say either of those very nearly identical sounding words either?

Oh well, at least you didn't have to play softball, that's gotta be worth something ;)

I cuss and curse quite freqeuntly when Im talking with adult friends, and I find that a well placed 'Fuck' or '****' gets accross the emotion behind the words better than a whole slew of errrr milder words.

In New York, "fuck" isn't even a word. It's a comma.

i use fucking hell and horse shit a lot, but why pound on bussdrivers, when they get screwed by everyone anyway. no one is making the world any better of a place by making life more difficult for them then it already is.

=^^=
.../\...

Are we too sensitive to cuss words?

Yes and no.

Yes because it's okay to say "crap" or "poop" but not "shit". That's base hypocrisy given that all those words lead to excrement.

Yes because it's okay to say "screw that" when it's not to say "fuck that". Again, same idea, different word.

No because inflammatory words are often used just to get a rise out of people. That's not expression, that's childish. That said, if I drop a 50lb. amplifier on my foot, I'm gonna swear. If someone tries to correct me (fundie Christians are especially annoying at this, and their "substitutes" are all part of the aforementioned hypocrisy, given that they believe God knows our motives anyway), I get really annoyed.

No because inflammatory words used to provoke or as adjuncts to everyday conversation are indicative of an absence of thought on the part of the speaker (notice I didn't say "absence of intelligence").

So yeah, I'm ambivalent about it.