NationStates Jolt Archive

I am having a discussion with someone on the virtue of baby formula vs breast milk. I am of the opinion that, at least for the first six months, breast feeding is the way to go. After that, use your best judgment.

I am of that opinion because I looked it up, and basically every organization that has anything to do with medicine holds that opinion.

I have brought this to her and steadfastly pointed out the list of increased risks, and she still steadfastly insists that there is no major drawbacks to baby formula as opposed to breast milk.

I then proceeded to whip out a very long list that I swiped from Wikipedia, and she claims that those are "statistically true, but still sufficiently unlikely so as not to be worried".

So, my questions to you, NSGers, are the following:

A) Do you plan to breast feed or bottle feed?
B) Am I right or wrong?
C) Is there anything else I could point out/say to get my point across.

There is no poll!

There's no doubt that breast milk is fantastic stuff and offers some great health benefits - but formula won't destroy a child's life or anything. If a mother really doesn't want to breastfeed, that's her choice, and I don't especially think browbeating her on the subject will help.

What part of "7 points higher" and "Less obesity" Doesn't she understand?

What part of "7 points higher" and "Less obesity" Doesn't she understand?

Apparently, those are "statistically true" but "not really a major factor" as far as she's concerned.

I won't dispute the benefits of breast milk, but we formula-fed my daughter and she's a healthy, happy child. My (limited) understanding is that the literature on the milk vs. formula debate goes through generational swings.

I agree that browbeating a parent on the subject is neither helpful nor terribly respectful. If she has the information and continues to formula feed, it's her choice. The first thing new parents learn is to tune out the crowd of self-proclaimed experts on how to better raise their child.

Formula isn't going to harm the child, yes, breast is better and usually leads to a better all around experience, but strictly formula feeding isn't the same as starving the baby either.

\I agree that browbeating a parent on the subject is neither helpful nor terribly respectful. If she has the information and continues to formula feed, it's her choice. The first thing new parents learn is to tune out the crowd of self-proclaimed experts on how to better raise their child.

Just to be clear, she's not a parent. She's my debate partner when we're both bored.

Apparently, those are "statistically true" but "not really a major factor" as far as she's concerned.

Intelligence isn't a major factor? What have I been missing? or, perhaps, what has she been missing?

1. I plan to breastfeed my child(ren). I think it's certainly worth it for the health benefits and immunities, but it's also damn convenient (on demand, always sterile, always the right temperature, no extra equipment!) and I also think it can be an important part of bonding between mother and baby.

2. No one's right, but she's wrong. :P Like everyone said, breast feeding has definite, studied benefits, but I don't know that formula has drawbacks, exactly.

3. I don't know that you can do much to change her view if she refuses to believe the facts you've presented. Although the fact that women who breastfeed lose pregnancy weight more quickly than those who don't may sway her. ;)

I formula fed and he is growing up just fine.

As was pointed out, there are benefits to breast-feeding, but there are no drawbacks to formula feeding either.

So IMHO (from just going by what you wrote), you are both right.

1. I plan to breastfeed my child(ren). I think it's certainly worth it for the health benefits and immunities, but it's also damn convenient (on demand, always sterile, always the right temperature, no extra equipment!) and I also think it can be an important part of bonding between mother and baby.


Not to cast aspersions on your choice, but I'm pretty sure my wife found it very convenient that I could get up for 3am feedings without having to rely on her breasts. ;) And actually, as an equal-opportunity parent and stay-at-home dad I really enjoyed being able to feed my daughter.

Not to cast aspersions on your choice, but I'm pretty sure my wife found it very convenient that I could get up for 3am feedings without having to rely on her breasts. ;) And actually, as an equal-opportunity parent and stay-at-home dad I really enjoyed being able to feed my daughter.

Fair point. I suppose you could use a pump for those situations, though I've heard they're uncomfortable/tricky. I meant more when you're out and about with the baby, though. Didn't think of it from a father's point of view, I will admit.

Fair point. I suppose you could use a pump for those situations, though I've heard they're uncomfortable/tricky. I meant more when you're out and about with the baby, though. Didn't think of it from a father's point of view, I will admit.

I can't speak to the pump experience; she (wife) had no interest in breastfeeding whatsoever and I never really did figure out why. And you're right, trying to get bottles warmed up "out and about" was a pain.

Point: Formulas are a manufactured product, and are subject to the same manufacturing defect hazards as any other product. I seem to recall stories of nasty impurities in formula (sorry, no sources) and can certainly point to the recent poisonous dog food and contaminated veggie stories as evidence that you can't trust corporate or government oversight and quality control.

My ladyfriend said that if she ever had kids she would breastfeed. Mainly for bonding, if I recall correctly. Also, with breastfeeding, you know exactly where the baby's food is coming from, which is good for quality control, as mentioned by Lord Tothe.

Point: Formulas are a manufactured product, and are subject to the same manufacturing defect hazards as any other product. I seem to recall stories of nasty impurities in formula (sorry, no sources) and can certainly point to the recent poisonous dog food and contaminated veggie stories as evidence that you can't trust corporate or government oversight and quality control.

Is this your best argument? "It may or may not be tainted?"

:rolleyes:

Is this your best argument? "It may or may not be tainted?"

:rolleyes:

Pardon me but that seems like a good point to me. One is uncertain as to the safeness or quality of the product. At least one can't go wrong with nature, but then again (in fear of offending the differing majority) I wespect and wuvs dose hoo love guzzling down mixtures of chemicals juz cuz teh gubment/big bro says we ought to. :rolleyes:

Pardon me but that seems like a good point to me. One is uncertain as to the safeness or quality of the product. At least one can't go wrong with nature, but then again (in fear of offending the differing majority) I wespect and wuvs dose hoo love guzzling down mixtures of chemicals juz cuz teh gubment/big bro says we ought to. :rolleyes:

Wow, never thought I'd say this, but I agree with SL here.

When you're talking about something that is consumed specifically by infants, safeness and quality control are pretty damn important issues. At least, with breastmilk, you know exactly where it's coming from and if there is a problem, where to look for the problem.

Also, I've heard it said that formula doesn't taste as good. But that of course, is not very scientific evidence. Though I am curious.

Pardon me but that seems like a good point to me. One is uncertain as to the safeness or quality of the product. At least one can't go wrong with nature, but then again (in fear of offending the differing majority) I wespect and wuvs dose hoo love guzzling down mixtures of chemicals juz cuz teh gubment/big bro says we ought to. :rolleyes:

I'm certain that there are benefits and securities to breast feeding, yes. But to say you are against the formula because you feel that it is unsafe is ignorant of intensive safety measures that go into protection the average person. Some mistakes slip through the cracks, yes. But the possibility is still small. If you're really that worried about it being contaminated, then don't buy baby formula from China, considering that it seems to be the source of multiple processed food woes.

In any case, does not the process of evaporating the milk to be used in the formula destroy all the nasties that we're all worried about? Considering the ingredients of it, it seems the most likely source of contamination would be the milk...

2. No one's right, but she's wrong. :P Like everyone said, breast feeding has definite, studied benefits, but I don't know that formula has drawbacks, exactly.
Premature exposure to allergens, for one. Cow milk protein is different from human milk protein. Composition of both milks also vary.

Actually, breastfeeding is best for babies even beyond six months of age. We had a pediatrician-lecturer-consultant who solely breastfed her children well until weaning (three years of age, iirc).

Premature exposure to allergens, for one. Cow milk protein is different from human milk protein. Composition of both milks also vary.

Actually, breastfeeding is best for babies even beyond six months of age. We had a pediatrician-lecturer-consultant who solely breastfed her children well until weaning (three years of age, iirc).

I think that's a bit late, personally. I don't think children should be able to remember being breastfed.

I think that's a bit late, personally. I don't think children should be able to remember being breastfed.
Well, it depends, actually. The point is, she breastfed her children well after six months of age, given her work and her schedule... there are actually only a few contraindications for breastfeeding....

When I have kids im also debating that, I dont want to walk around town with wet spots on my shirt sometimes, But I also dont know if I want to risk having bad milk or something going wrong.

Well, it depends, actually. The point is, she breastfed her children well after six months of age, given her work and her schedule... there are actually only a few contraindications for breastfeeding....

Yeah, it's just that I'm glad that I don't remember breastfeeding. And I remember things that happened when I was two.

Yeah, it's just that I'm glad that I don't remember breastfeeding. And I remember things that happened when I was two.
Conversely, I would like to remember me breastfeeding... but my mom was a working mom back then and she quit breastfeeding me when I was about three months of age... :( sad, 'cause I can't remember the last time I'd be able to fondle bewbs innocently... :p

Conversely, I would like to remember me breastfeeding... but my mom was a working mom back then and she quit breastfeeding me when I was about three months of age... :( sad, 'cause I can't remember the last time I'd be able to fondle bewbs innocently... :p

I dunno, since I now think of boobs sexually, I'm glad I don't remember sucking on my mom's. I must have been weaned by age 2, I think.

I dunno, since I now think of boobs sexually, I'm glad I don't remember sucking on my mom's. I must have been weaned by age 2, I think.
Good for you. ;)

I'd breastfeed a baby, but I don't think they'd get much out of my moobs :P

Seriously, yes, breastfeeding is better, but there are almost certainly a hundred other factors that are going to have a bigger effect on the growing chld, so probably NOT that important overall.

I am having a discussion with someone on the virtue of baby formula vs breast milk. I am of the opinion that, at least for the first six months, breast feeding is the way to go. After that, use your best judgment.

I am of that opinion because I looked it up, and basically every organization that has anything to do with medicine holds that opinion.

I have brought this to her and steadfastly pointed out the list of increased risks, and she still steadfastly insists that there is no major drawbacks to baby formula as opposed to breast milk.

I then proceeded to whip out a very long list that I swiped from Wikipedia, and she claims that those are "statistically true, but still sufficiently unlikely so as not to be worried".

So, my questions to you, NSGers, are the following:

A) Do you plan to breast feed or bottle feed?
B) Am I right or wrong?
C) Is there anything else I could point out/say to get my point across.

There is no poll!

I breastfed my first, and had to formula feed the second due to medication I was on. I saw no real discernible difference between them. Breastfeeding was cheaper and more convenient, but neither of them really got sick or failed to bond or didn't learn properly or any of that.

If she doesn't want to breastfeed, you shouldn't pressure her. She's getting enough shit from Le Leche League and the nursing nazi's I promise. Breastfeeding isn't easy, if she's not committed she'll quit early anyway.

Fair point. I suppose you could use a pump for those situations, though I've heard they're uncomfortable/tricky. I meant more when you're out and about with the baby, though. Didn't think of it from a father's point of view, I will admit.

They are uncomfortable and tricky and you don't get much milk out, even with the big powerful rental ones.

FWIW my husband got up at 3am with me when I breastfed, his job was to change the diaper, fix my pillows, get me water and keep me awake. He also took shift when I formula fed the second one. Breastfeeding doesn't mean the father can't help, it just means he can't actively feed. (usually, like I've said before men can breast feed but it's burdensome)

When I have kids im also debating that, I dont want to walk around town with wet spots on my shirt sometimes, But I also dont know if I want to risk having bad milk or something going wrong.

If you have a baby you will have wet spots on your shirt. They spit up almost constantly, more often if you bottle feed. It's rare that you would have bad milk or be unable to breast feed, but if it should happen switching to formula is an easy fix.

all things being equal, all things are NOT equal and you "should' breastfeed.

in the real world, a new mom has enough to worry about that she doesnt need a heap of guilt because she has chosen to bottle feed the baby. there are a lot of reasons and a lot of circumstances that make bottle feeding a better choice. a woman should do what she thinks is best and the rest of the world should shut up about it.

although we should still promote the idea of breastfeeding because of its superior benefits to the baby.

My baby is being fed a combination of both. Momma had to go on antibiotics for a while and it disrupted her milk production volume because she could only pump, not feed, during that time and so now the voracious little monster that is our child wants more than she can give on breast milk alone. ;)

The drawback of formula feeding are the loss of benefits from breast feeding as well as the looming possibility (however small) that you might get defect formula that might do either noticeable or unnoticeacble harm to your child.

I really don't get women who don't breast feed without a real medical reason :confused:

The drawback of formula feeding are the loss of benefits from breast feeding as well as the looming possibility (however small) that you might get defect formula that might do either noticeable or unnoticeacble harm to your child.

I really don't get women who don't breast feed without a real medical reason :confused:

I do.
I was breast fed for the first 2 months, then my mother had to go back to university and she couldn't really bring me with her to feed me during lectures.
She tried breast feeding my little brother, but he would regularly bite her breasts black and blue, so she stopped after a few days.

It's not always possible to breast feed, and you don't need a medical reason not to.

I plan to breastfeed when I have children.

I wouldn't bash someone who chose not to, though. And there are women who shouldn't breastfeed as well. My grandmother was constantly very anemic and they flat-out told her she should use formula.

FWIW my husband got up at 3am with me when I breastfed, his job was to change the diaper, fix my pillows, get me water and keep me awake. He also took shift when I formula fed the second one. Breastfeeding doesn't mean the father can't help, it just means he can't actively feed. (usually, like I've said before men can breast feed but it's burdensome)
My wife and I did both bottle and breast. Usually I would bottle feed my son after I got him out of his bath with my wife. She handled all the night feedings though, mainly because in her opinion, I needed all the sleep I could get due to going to work the next day and dealing with 1,500 elementary school kids. That and, in Japanese tradition, my son sleeps with my wife in the same futon and she just rolls over to nurse him and goes back to sleep.

Of course now my son is off formula completely and is going more and more with solid foods so now it's my job to try and feed him before dinner and keep him from putting his hands into his food to 'help' me.

My wife and I did both bottle and breast. Usually I would bottle feed my son after I got him out of his bath with my wife. She handled all the night feedings though, mainly because in her opinion, I needed all the sleep I could get due to going to work the next day and dealing with 1,500 elementary school kids. That and, in Japanese tradition, my son sleeps with my wife in the same futon and she just rolls over to nurse him and goes back to sleep.

Of course now my son is off formula completely and is going more and more with solid foods so now it's my job to try and feed him before dinner and keep him from putting his hands into his food to 'help' me.

Some point soon let him try, he'll make a horrible mess and probably scream like a banshee, but it'll be fun. Make sure you have the camera ready!

By the time mine were 8 months we had them mostly doing sippy cups, and doing the "finger food" portion of dinner.......which was always a mess! Those teething cookies are basically goo! haha.

When you let him try put a trashbag under his high chair, it makes clean up easier, especially when he decides to drop the spinache to see what will happen. ;)

If I ever need parenting advice, reming me to ask Smunkee. She seems to be quite clever about it all :)

On the topic at hand, it should be, like most things, a personal choice. I imagine (read: plan, assuming I ever get one of the little buggers) to let the mum breastfeed whenever she can/wants, but take shifts with formula for practicality.

Plus, I don't want my woman getting bruised boobs. If thats happening, breastfeeding is out :p

A) Do you plan to breast feed or bottle feed?
Neither
B) Am I right or wrong?
Yes
C) Is there anything else I could point out/say to get my point across.
Maybe

Am I right or wrong?



Yes


I can't put my head around the meaning of your answer! *head splodes*



If and when I have kids its likely that the mother will breast fead and I will bottle feed formuls.

I can't put my head around the meaning of your answer! *head splodes*



If and when I have kids its likely that the mother will breast fead and I will bottle feed formuls.

I simply meant that those are indeed the choices...

I simply meant that those are indeed the choices...

I was being silly

There is no doubt that breast feeding is better for the baby
http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/whochart.html

There are occasions where the mother is unable. But if the mother is truely after the best for her child she should at least try to breast feed. For many reasons this is sometimes not possible. When that is the case it should be accepted.

On other occasions the mother is able but is upon medication that can be transmitted through breast milk. At high levels this can be worse then the formula. If you are in any doubt just see your doctor. The starting years are the most important in a childs life

Even a man can feed a baby breast milk. If the milk is extracted from the female into a bottle and then frozen this can be used to feed the baby. Breast milk is much healthier but it will take organization and the willingness for a pump device to be attached to the female. For that reason the formula when a male is feeding the child is often preferred

If I ever need parenting advice, reming me to ask Smunkee. She seems to be quite clever about it all :)

On the topic at hand, it should be, like most things, a personal choice. I imagine (read: plan, assuming I ever get one of the little buggers) to let the mum breastfeed whenever she can/wants, but take shifts with formula for practicality.

Plus, I don't want my woman getting bruised boobs. If thats happening, breastfeeding is out :p

It's uncommon to get bruises breastfeeding if the baby is latched on properly. It's also uncommon to get the baby to latch on properly the first couple weeks out. She'll just have to pay attention to the tyke and re-attach if it's wrong.

She'll probably have uneven breasts though, since you feed first from the breast you fed last from. (it's counter-intuitive but honestly it's the best way)

She'll probably have uneven breasts though, since you feed first from the breast you fed last from. (it's counter-intuitive but honestly it's the best way)

My curiosity is peaked.

How come?

My curiosity is peaked.

How come?

The milk in the front of the breast is easy to get and thinner, the milk at the back is thicker and more nutritious.

If you feed from the left and empty it and then the right and half empty, then the next time you should feed from the right to finish it off, plus since babies are most excited when they first eat they will work harder for the milk and get the good milk out.

If you try to keep your breasts even, and feed every other one, it's less likely that the baby will get much of the really really good milk. (not impossible, but less likely)

The milk in the front of the breast is easy to get and thinner, the milk at the back is thicker and more nutritious.

If you feed from the left and empty it and then the right and half empty, then the next time you should feed from the right to finish it off, plus since babies are most excited when they first eat they will work harder for the milk and get the good milk out.

If you try to keep your breasts even, and feed every other one, it's less likely that the baby will get much of the really really good milk. (not impossible, but less likely)

You're really smart. If I ever reproduce, I'm going to come to you seeking advice on a number of things.

I think it should just be left to personal choice. And I must say, it's nice that people on here seem to take that view too.
I'm getting a breast reduction soon and so will be unable to breastfeed, and the amount of crap I've had to put up with from the breastmilk nazis is unbelievable. Especially as I'm only 20 and as of now have no children (and don't intend to start any time soon).
But these crazy people at the hospital seem more concerned about the baby that doesn't exist than my health...
Saying that though, if it wasn't for the op, I would most deffinitely breastfeed.

I did breastfeed, and there are certainly pros and cons to either side. The bonding issue is a lovely argument, but from experience I can tell you that for some fathers, watching a baby nurse totally de-sexualizes the mother's breasts, which at the time, is fine...later, not so much. It is definitely less convenient than a bottle when you are driving on the highway and your child needs to eat, NOW. Personally, I ended up with a combination of the two, the bottle gave me an opportunity to leave my child and have a night out, and nursing was relaxing and bonding.

I think we all want to do right by our children, but the arguments get polarizing when there is no room for common ground. This is not a zero sum argument like, for instance, letting your children ride in the car without a seatbelt.

As a further point of reference, when my mother was pregnant with me, the docs advised gaining no more than 15 pounds, which encouraged scads of pregnant women to take diet pills. Not to mention that smoking and drinking were widely practised by many expectant moms. I think I'm OK, despite all that in-utero abuse. The pendulum swings violently when it does...

You're really smart. If I ever reproduce, I'm going to come to you seeking advice on a number of things.

:D I am really smart. haha. Thanks. I read constantly. I read about 6 books a week. That's not including the 50+ short books I read to, listen to, or look at with my children. If you read as much as I do, you would know a lot of stuff too.

:D I am really smart. haha. Thanks. I read constantly. I read about 6 books a week. That's not including the 50+ short books I read to, listen to, or look at with my children. If you read as much as I do, you would know a lot of stuff too.

I don't know how to read. :(

I don't know how to read. :(

*slaps Gall with a fish*
Quit that! Of course you know how to read. Otherwise, you wouldn´t be able to post here.:mad: And quit thinking you´re not smart enough or something.

I don't know how to read. :(*slaps Gall with a fish*
Quit that! Of course you know how to read. Otherwise, you wouldn´t be able to post here.:mad: And quit thinking you´re not smart enough or something.

Ignore Nanatsu, feel free to consider yourself inadequate... ;)








actually listen to her, she's making sense...

Ignore Nanatsu, feel free to consider yourself inadequate... ;)

Bah, I realize I'm not very smart. I get by without getting scammed or taken advantage of, so I do all right.

I just do my thing.

:sniper:

Bah, I realize I'm not very smart. I get by without getting scammed or taken advantage of, so I do all right.

I just do my thing.

:sniper:

http://th106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/RiverIsMyGoddess/icons/th_smiley_fishslap.gif

Well I've breastfed both my girls. I honestly believe that it's better for the baby if the mother can do it (breastmilk carries antibodies that help to boost the baby's immune system). Having said that, if a woman has real problems with doing it, I don't think the baby is going to suffer any long term side effects and the mother definitely should not be made to feel guilty about her choice. Breastfeeding is great for bonding, but when it isn't going right it's incredibly frustrating and emotionally draining.