NationStates Jolt Archive

This thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=560068), discussing a particular case where an 11 year old girl's said to have as her role model Jordan/Katie Price (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_(Katie_Price)), a celeb in the UK who got her start as a Page 3 Girl and Playboy model. It reminds me of reading interviews with Playboy Playmates who say they always dreamed of posing for Playboy as little girls.

Setting aside the particulars of either the above cases, is a glamour model/pin-up, particularly a nude model, an appropriate role model for a pre-teen girl? If no, why not? If yes, how about a porn star?

in my opinion no profession/famething that relies on looks is a good role model. kids/teens need to getting an education and preparing themselves for modern life. focusing on looking good instead of education wastes their time. very few of the "page 3 models" ever make a living at it.

and dont you wonder if its TRUE that they have wanted to be playboy models since they were preteens? what kind of family exposes their girls to that kind of thing so much that they think its something to strive for?

of course i feel the same way about kids being put into gymnastics in hopes of ending up in the olympics too. its a waste of their youth.

It seems like a glamourous life at that age, and in some ways it is. I suspect that if more youngsters knew how much work and suffering goes into being a high fashion model or how many fail to break that far into the business, it might not be quite so popular.

But when you see them in magazines, It's hard to visualize the hours of photo sessions, the dieting, the surgery, the make up, the pressures and stresses of the business and how fickle the industry is.

I also think that many parents and even more kids are total dipshits. :p

I also think that many parents and even more kids are total dipshits. :p

yeah

a preteen should barely be aware that there is such a thing as being a professional model. no kid under 13 should have it as a goal because she shouldnt know it can be a goal.

good models are overlooked. Instead of focusing on models, singers and sport starts why arnt we looking up to people who serve the community? Who knows the name of someone who runs a local charity? Isnt that person of far greater value?

Eh, just have them do job shadowing for a week.

Then they'll see how glamorous such business really is. *nod*

Every man I knew went to bed with Gilda... and woke up with me - Rita Hayworth

I think this is the hardest part, possibly for any 'celebrity' role. It's almost a schizophrenic life to live where people see the projected persona compared to who you might just be.

Where that persona is purely looks and/or sexuality, it creates a very narrow personality by which people expect to relate to you. That can be very, very difficult to deal with.

Where a parent is teaching a child that the only important thing in their life is their looks, well I just can't see it as particularly responsible.

good models are overlooked. Instead of focusing on models, singers and sport starts why arnt we looking up to people who serve the community? Who knows the name of someone who runs a local charity? Isnt that person of far greater value?

Because the world as it is today celebrates sex and sports, I knew a man who could recite every team in football, but when I asked him the name of the second pope (he is a devote catholic) he just stared at me.

Depends on if she grows up to be hot or not. ;)

Where a parent is teaching a child that the only important thing in their life is their looks, well I just can't see it as particularly responsible.

The devilled avocado position, of course, is that it is entirely possible for people to get by on their looks, (or their relaxed approach to morality).

If someone is going to be kept as a pet (effectively), what possible use is polynomial theory, except taking up space?

I would say no. It could get the girl in trouble (of various sorts), and quite frankly I don't think I would like the kind of personality that girls like that would be likely to develop. In my opinion the life of a model is wasted anyway, so from a humanistic standpoint I'm going to say definitely not.

in my opinion no profession/famething that relies on looks is a good role model. kids/teens need to getting an education and preparing themselves for modern life. focusing on looking good instead of education wastes their time. very few of the "page 3 models" ever make a living at it.

Indeed, few make it. One question though: what of the dull but pretty? Just as not everyone is good looking, not everyone is suitably intelligent for a good education.

and dont you wonder if its TRUE that they have wanted to be playboy models since they were preteens? what kind of family exposes their girls to that kind of thing so much that they think its something to strive for?

I indeed do wonder. I assume that for at least some of them it's true. And it's usually something along the lines of "I used to sneak peeks at my daddies magazines." rather than something more sinister.

of course i feel the same way about kids being put into gymnastics in hopes of ending up in the olympics too. its a waste of their youth.

I did gymnastics as a kid. I wasn't very good, but it was fun.

It seems like a glamourous life at that age, and in some ways it is. I suspect that if more youngsters knew how much work and suffering goes into being a high fashion model or how many fail to break that far into the business, it might not be quite so popular.

But when you see them in magazines, It's hard to visualize the hours of photo sessions, the dieting, the surgery, the make up, the pressures and stresses of the business and how fickle the industry is.

I also think that many parents and even more kids are total dipshits. :p

I was thinking of glamor models, in particular soft-core/semi-nude/nude, rather than high fashion. That's partly because of the social and moral stigmas that come with it, especially when considering children. But yeah, all that aplies as well.

yeah

a preteen should barely be aware that there is such a thing as being a professional model. no kid under 13 should have it as a goal because she shouldnt know it can be a goal.

That was my thinking.

The devilled avocado position, of course, is that it is entirely possible for people to get by on their looks, (or their relaxed approach to morality).

If someone is going to be kept as a pet (effectively), what possible use is polynomial theory, except taking up space?

I have no idea what polynomial means and even going to Wikipedia leaves me none the wiser since my brain switched off at around the second sentence :)

Absolutely it's entirely possible for someone to get by with their looks yet given girl's bodies go through tremendous changes between 11 and, say, 21, it's also a little irresponsible to create expectations when one's ass can suddenly expand to the size of a small rhinoceros.

Although 1010102 was possibly being a little trite, he has a point, it does depend on whether a child grows into a 'hot' adult.

I have no idea what polynomial means and even going to Wikipedia leaves me none the wiser since my brain switched off at around the second sentence :)

Oh it's simple, very basic ancient greek. look at the word Politics, you can see it has the same base as polynominal.

Poli = many
and
Tics = Blood sucking parasites.



same thing with polynomial, it breaks down to

Poly = Many
and
Nomial = Numbers

Just a slightly different accent, a y instead of an i.

so it simply means many numbers. if you are counting things and run out of fingers and toes (generally 20, unless you've had an accident in which case it's less, or you are a backcountry hill-billy, in which case it's more) then you have managed to reach the realm of polynomial maths.

good models are overlooked. Instead of focusing on models, singers and sport starts why arnt we looking up to people who serve the community? Who knows the name of someone who runs a local charity? Isnt that person of far greater value?

Of course not, they're making less money for more work hence they are worth less. Besides, they aren't on tabloids, because of public private matters declaring they should be left alone on a weekly/daily basis, so they are nobodies.


Entertainment, looks, sex and fame sells - It's the way of the modern world. I see no harm in parents trying to grow their children up in a way that is compatible with future success...Infact I think it is even responsible thing to do as good education is secondary to being talented in sports or sexually attractive (& publicly promiscuous) if you desire fame & fortune.

In fact I think it is even responsible thing to do as good education is secondary to being talented in sports or sexually attractive (& publicly promiscuous) if you desire fame & fortune.

The top ten richest people in the world disagree with you, Bill Gates has neither looks nor sporting ability, the Mexican telecommunications guy - Carlos Whatever - is more the toad than the prince.

One might say intelligence is just as hereditary as looks, one might say business acumen and, to a degree, luck are a result of circumstance. Is there any real difference in terms of 'success'?

I suppose, as a society, we put a value on how we gain success and even what determines success. A poor yet happy person can be considered as successful as an unhappy rich person, neither are exclusive to each other.

Is the misery of fighting for position in a corporation any less demeaning than fighting in the fashion industry - I'd guess that the real aim of parenting is to teach one's child to accept oneself for who you are while striving to improve where possible.

Unconditional love has meaning here, placing all one's hopes in trying to push a child into specific interests puts conditions on that love, whether meant or not, from the child's perspective.

Calarca - I was over-thinking the meaning, in as much as 'polynomial' could have been replaced by 'many', I get it now :)

Setting aside the particulars of either the above cases, is a glamour model/pin-up, particularly a nude model, an appropriate role model for a pre-teen girl? If no, why not? If yes, how about a porn star?


Why not?

Because sex is BAAAAAD?

Seriously, what, is this some form of religious board?

Sex is AWESOME.

If a person is confident enough in their body to make money off their sex appeal, more power to them.

I don't see how making money off some innate gift of beauty is different from making money by flexing your muscles in front of a camera, or making money by writing lame screenplays for Hollywood.

Why not?

Because sex is BAAAAAD?

Seriously, what, is this some form of religious board?

Sex is AWESOME.

If a person is confident enough in their body to make money off their sex appeal, more power to them.

I don't see how making money off some innate gift of beauty is different from making money by flexing your muscles in front of a camera, or making money by writing lame screenplays for Hollywood.


I think my problem is that they are selling sex, but I never seem to get it. I have given them my correct address several times. :p

The top ten richest people in the world disagree with you, Bill Gates has neither looks nor sporting ability, the Mexican telecommunications guy - Carlos Whatever - is more the toad than the prince.

But becoming rich the normal way is tedious and requires talent...

I suppose, as a society, we put a value on how we gain success and even what determines success. A poor yet happy person can be considered as successful as an unhappy rich person, neither are exclusive to each other
...but we as a society don't appreciate happiness per se, it's the riches and fame that seem to matter.

Twisted culture - perhaps brought upon by blind capitalism? - but such is life.

Why not?

Because sex is BAAAAAD?

Seriously, what, is this some form of religious board?

Sex is AWESOME.

If a person is confident enough in their body to make money off their sex appeal, more power to them.

I don't see how making money off some innate gift of beauty is different from making money by flexing your muscles in front of a camera, or making money by writing lame screenplays for Hollywood.

The problem here is really the age. Pre-teen has no way of knowing just how beautiful/ugly she might become. If all her chances ride on her being extraordinarily beautiful and leaving school to distant second, there is rather high risk of her life taking a nose dive.

Besides, beautiful women are dime a dozen to the entertainment business, as they only need a handful and there are tons of girls/women wishing for the job. You'd need some kind of asset that sets you above the other candicates.

She's also pre-teen - which means she changes her opinion ten times a month re: what she wants to be when she grows up. I don't think this really means anything.

I'd quite like to be on the front page of playgirl myself...it would be really awesome actually especially if I was all over girls walls like with blokes :)

girls will be girls and the sooner you learn this the better

But becoming rich the normal way is tedious and requires talent...

I doubt those who are truly rich feel that way. I suspect you're saying looks are an easy route but to be at the top of that pile?

...but we as a society don't appreciate happiness per se, it's the riches and fame that seem to matter.

Twisted culture - perhaps brought upon by blind capitalism? - but such is life.

In the book I'm reading, I read today that the largest industries in the world are:

Defense
Education
Health
Food
Building & Construction

I wonder where sex (and drugs as well) fit in there?

SNIP

burn this book because agriculture is far far larger

burn this book because agriculture is far far larger

Agriculture may come under food no?

Even if that isn't so, agriculture makes up a tiny percentage of the British economy as an example, tiny.

The book is about creativity and this information is a minor side point to a chapter on architecture.

burn this book because agriculture is far far larger

Judging by the list I'm guessing they are listing the size of an industry by the profits, rather than it's scale. Agriculture employs more people than any other industry in the world (by a huge margin), but is not very profitable, as even with he prices rises in food staples, the prices big buyers pay for the raw harvests is still very low.


Entertainment, looks, sex and fame sells - It's the way of the modern world. I see no harm in parents trying to grow their children up in a way that is compatible with future success...Infact I think it is even responsible thing to do as good education is secondary to being talented in sports or sexually attractive (& publicly promiscuous) if you desire fame & fortune.

Which means our society has it's priorities seriously screwed up. If we encourage our children to go with that, we are perpetuating the problem.

Literature, history, the arts, architecture, government, religion, philanthropy. These are things that are going to make a better society, and this is where the models should be coming from for where kids want to be when they grow up, and where they an feel rewarded. The best and most dedicated people are know work their guts out for things they really believe in in return for very little fortune, and only the most limited recognition.

good models are overlooked. Instead of focusing on models, singers and sport starts why arent we looking up to people who serve the community? Who knows the name of someone who runs a local charity? Isn't that person of far greater value?

They are. Though I won't rate local community projects as the most important thing, though I agree with your overall point. See above.

The devilled avocado position, of course, is that it is entirely possible for people to get by on their looks, (or their relaxed approach to morality).

If someone is going to be kept as a pet (effectively), what possible use is polynomial theory, except taking up space?

its entirely possible to get by on your looks (or your sexuality) FOR A WHILE.

just like the professional athlete who is washed up by the age of 30--and the vast majority of everyone who worked hard to become a professional athelete is done with it by then--the pretty girl has a limited career at being some rich man's pet.

sure we can all admire someone like anna nicole smith who took her vacant look and store bought breasts to the top by marrying a horny old man who died after less than 2 years of marriage leaving her rich and happy. but no matter how much we might want this kind of life for our daughters, there just arent that many fabulously wealthy elderly old men to go around.

if a girl is planning on living into her 40s she needs to have some fall back plan of how to support herself. the foundations for that are laid in youth where she should learn as much as possible (even if she is pretty but dull).

I think that a model is a bad profession in itself. It is discriminatory and has little to offer. And it's even worse if a pre-teen girl wants to do it (and sacrifices her other talents to achieve it).

About the pornstar profession. As pre-teens can't legally know much about the profession it's quite an irrelevant question. If we're talking about the pornstar profession in general I prefer more amateurish porn where looks and control aren't as important. The professional branch is essentially a model profession with sex (over which you have to have a lot of control - not to come when you shouldn't, do it according to the script, etc. - which isn't really healthy) so it's also bad.

To summarize it, nobody should sacrifice any of their other interests because of any of the professions.

It seems that a page 3 girl would be a poor role model regardless of one's attitude about nude photography -- it's a lousy career choice. You've got all of the same downsides of any entertainment profession (low chance of success, lousy pay & working conditions for newbies, having to be nice to your snake of a manager,) but it's not actually a fun job, unlike, I dunno, making music, or acting. At least, it doesn't seem fun to me -- standing around for hours while some lighting tech stares at your butt from various angles sounds deadly dull. Even if you get famous, you're just standing around for hours in a better-heated studio while a better-paid lighting tech stares at your butt. I agree with whoever said that job-shadowing should be enough to put most kids off the career forever.

its entirely possible to get by on your looks (or your sexuality) FOR A WHILE.

just like the professional athlete who is washed up by the age of 30--and the vast majority of everyone who worked hard to become a professional athelete is done with it by then--the pretty girl has a limited career at being some rich man's pet.

sure we can all admire someone like anna nicole smith who took her vacant look and store bought breasts to the top by marrying a horny old man who died after less than 2 years of marriage leaving her rich and happy. but no matter how much we might want this kind of life for our daughters, there just arent that many fabulously wealthy elderly old men to go around.

if a girl is planning on living into her 40s she needs to have some fall back plan of how to support herself. the foundations for that are laid in youth where she should learn as much as possible (even if she is pretty but dull).

I don't know, modern cosmetic surgery can do a lot to lengthen the potential career of a model.

its entirely possible to get by on your looks (or your sexuality) FOR A WHILE.

just like the professional athlete who is washed up by the age of 30--and the vast majority of everyone who worked hard to become a professional athelete is done with it by then--the pretty girl has a limited career at being some rich man's pet.

sure we can all admire someone like anna nicole smith who took her vacant look and store bought breasts to the top by marrying a horny old man who died after less than 2 years of marriage leaving her rich and happy. but no matter how much we might want this kind of life for our daughters, there just arent that many fabulously wealthy elderly old men to go around.

if a girl is planning on living into her 40s she needs to have some fall back plan of how to support herself. the foundations for that are laid in youth where she should learn as much as possible (even if she is pretty but dull).

If you save your money right as a sports player of any renown, or if you marry a guy and have a kid so you can milk him of 18 years of child support, you'll find it's quite easy to live well into the 50's without doing any real work whatsoever.

Literature, history, the arts, architecture, government, religion, philanthropy. These are things that are going to make a better society, and this is where the models should be coming from for where kids want to be when they grow up, and where they an feel rewarded.

Religion hardly makes for better society and this won't change until all the whackos in the world learn to tolerate each other... Which is most likely never going to happen.

A glamazon huntress is not an appropriate role model, no.