NationStates Jolt Archive

Thats right today is the 60th anniversary of the launch of the NHS in Britan!
The NHS provides Free healthcare to all citizens, post your thoughts here.

More on the NHS -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_National_Health_Service
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)

Hooray!

May it remain for another 60 years!

Hooray!

May it remain for another 60 years!

Needs to be improved just a wee bit though.

you mean there's some sort of national historical society or something of the sort, over there in brittan, that's the same age as i am?

i think the nation of israel as a nation is the same age too.
when it was about kibutzim and peace it had something. what its come to be about now i'm a lot less in favor of.

60 years ago the railroads ran a LOT more passinger trains, or at least a lot in proportion to population, even though they were already trying to get rid of them. and cities and counties didn't have to run intercity bus services, greyhound and trailways did that.

of course that's where i'm living in the u.s.

60 years ago capitolism in the u.s. mostly worked because there was a strong REAL middle class, because retailing was mostly mom and pop and infrastructure was mostly unionised. and in europe and elsewhere BECAUSE it was intimately intigrated with social considerations, before all this corporate 'privatization' started screwing everything up that hadn't previously been by other sorts of prejudice and fanatacisms.

of course it was mccarthyism that reall started that bussiness of screwing everything up. although there'd been something like that before with someone called palmer.

well in 48 there were trains and that's what i grew up with. although i missed the end of the interurban era by that ten years or so, and seeing the last run of the nevada county narrow gauge by six. six friggin years. but then if i'd been born early enough to have seen that in the u.s., i guess i wouldn't have lived long enough or been young enough still to appreciate these computiner gismos when they came along.

i just wish we could be right now having the interurbans and the narrow gauges AND computers and the internet at the same time, and with population levels no more then what they were then.

N.H.S.? never heard of it. not whatever it is over there as far as i know. i docented at a local historical society for a while though.

=^^=
.../\...

Needs to be improved just a wee bit though.

How much experience do you actually have of the NHS because from here it is still much better than the US system - but then Cuba's health care system is as well.

Needs to be improved just a wee bit though.

True. But can you name a healthcare system that doesn't?

The NHS provides Free healthcare to all citizens, post your thoughts here.
I think we can and should be proud of the NHS. It has its faults, but it's a hell of a lot better than having to fish out the credit card to see your GP.

huzzah for the glorious bounties of Social democracy!

seriously I can't imagine popping into the GP and being expected to pay for it

The NHS is something Britons should be really proud about - let's just hope Tories don't come along and shit all over it.

I'm glad, it seems like there are few improvements needed, but I hope it continues for another 60!

Three cheers for the NHS, long may it continue!

I am seriously so incredibly grateful for the NHS - I owe it my life, and that of my parents, and the well being of my eldest brother.

Don't mean to rain on your parade, but here's a "Yank"(I believe the term is) who hates the NHS!

(Mandatory gun smiley):gundge:

Don't mean to rain on your parade, but here's a "Yank"(I believe the term is) who hates the NHS!

jealousy is a powerful emotion isn't it (also you will find that only USians use such vulgar slang)

Don't mean to rain on your parade, but here's a "Yank"(I believe the term is) who hates the NHS!

(Mandatory gun smiley):gundge:


I am confused - why do you hate it? what did it do to you?

jealousy is a powerful emotion isn't it (also you will find that only USians use such vulgar slang)
Ah. So why are you jelous of our freedoms and democracies again? Jk:p
I am confused - why do you hate it? what did it do to you?
It killed my father! "NO CM! It IS your father!" NOOOOOOOOOO!

I'm just not a fan of government funded healthcare. Or the government for that matter.

The NHS is something Britons should be really proud about - let's just hope Tories don't come along and shit all over it.

Don't worry, the British people can only be pushed so far.

Although when I watch or read the news I wonder why the hell we haven't had a mass revolution!
The NHS is good, but it does miss out on one or two things, I had to go private just for a test to see if I could get corrective eye surgery. But other than that, I have never had a problem with my nearby NHS hospital and neither have my friends as far as I know- testament to my own good health!

Ah. So why are you jelous of our freedoms and democracies again? Jk:p

It killed my father! "NO CM! It IS your father!" NOOOOOOOOOO!

I'm just not a fan of government funded healthcare. Or the government for that matter.

Nobody in Britain is a fan of the government (saying that I wonder why we vote!). I hate our government, but it could be (believe it or not) a hell of a lot worse.

I love the NHS, it helps pay my bills!

Nobody in Britain is a fan of the government (saying that I wonder why we vote!). I hate our government, but it could be (believe it or not) a hell of a lot worse.

True. Everything can be worse. It could be like Britain in V for Vendetta!

I'm always left feeling an uncomfortable urge to hospitalise people who oppose the National Health Service.

Especially those who would have me pay more for an inferior service that makes incompetent people rich without contributing anything positive to the society that so enriches them.

More funding to the NHS, and if it only lasts another sixty years, it better be because we cured death in the twenty sixties.

While toasting the NHS, I also raise a glass to Aneurin Bevan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneurin_Bevan), the witty, lefty Welshman who fought so hard to create it.

My favourite Bevanism is his criticism of the Conservative government:
This island is made mainly of coal and surrounded by fish. Only an organizing genius could produce a shortage of coal and fish at the same time.

But this is the principle that drove him:Not even the apparently enlightened principle of the ‘greatest good for the greatest number’ can excuse indifference to individual suffering. There is no test for progress other than its impact on the individual.

[/adolescent hero-worship]

Ah. So why are you jelous of our freedoms and democracies again? Jk:p

It killed my father! "NO CM! It IS your father!" NOOOOOOOOOO!

I'm just not a fan of government funded healthcare. Or the government for that matter.

Oh ok. Well hope that works for you even half as well as the NHS works for me :)

Oh ok. Well hope that works for you even half as well as the NHS works for me :)
It does.

I'm just not a fan of government funded healthcare. Or the government for that matter.
Other than "because you're a 13-year old nerd who's desperately trying to be something special and different", why?

How much experience do you actually have of the NHS because from here it is still much better than the US system - but then Cuba's health care system is as well.
Absolutely zero. But:
True. But can you name a healthcare system that doesn't?
He summed it up. Any system can use improvement.

Our health care system sure could use some improvement. I'd love to have some of the NHS. Preferably with a side of civil liberties and some homosexual marriage for dessert.

Other than "because you're a 13-year old nerd who's desperately trying to be something special and different", why?
Please, stop with the Ad hominems about my age. It's getting old.

Please, stop with the Ad hominems about my age. It's getting old.

I'm actually going to have to agree with Conserative Morality here, because he's never going to listen if you constantly insult him everytime you respond to him. People don't react well to that.

Please, stop with the Ad hominems about my age. It's getting old.
Naja, fine.

But why are you oh so opposed to any kind of governmental intervention?

Naja, fine.

But why are you oh so opposed to any kind of governmental intervention?

Government inefficiency. A few examples might help here, so:



HOLLAND TOWNSHIP -- Biology is a breeze for students when the teacher provides the answers.
Karl Nadolsky
But veteran instructor Karl Nadolsky, a 36-year employee of West Ottawa Public Schools, isn't likely to glide into retirement now that administrators have branded him "unfit to teach" for allegedly ensuring students passed his course and for failing to protect a student who reported the alleged impropriety.

The West Ottawa Board of Education voted this week to revoke tenure and attempt to fire Nadolsky, who allegedly gave a test in October that italicized the correct answers to 27 of 34 multiple choice questions.

On two other exam questions, Nadolsky is accused of using a larger-size print and of bold-facing the correct answers, according to school district documents obtained by The Press through the Freedom of Information Act.

Nadolsky, 58, also allegedly allowed other students in the 19-student class to berate the person who alerted administrators.

The class is made up of sophomores who failed the course at least once last year.

"The other students reacted angrily; some called (the student) a snitch," Assistant Superintendent Rich Zuker wrote. "Mr. Nadolsky took no action ... thereby implicitly condoning their harassment."

During a second test in November, Nadolsky allegedly let students use a study guide during the exam. He relented to student pressure, according to Zuker.

"He knows or should know that such practices are improper," Zuker wrote. "He also failed in his role model responsibilities; by providing the correct answers, he implied that cheating on a test was an appropriate practice.

"By this conduct, Mr. Nadolsky has engaged in behavior seriously violative of professional norms and demonstrated that he is unfit to teach."

There is no indication that the alleged impropriety stretched back farther than last fall.

Nadolsky has been on administrative leave since Nov. 26. He could not be reached for comment.

The board voted Monday after a closed hearing to begin dismissal efforts.

School officials said they could not confirm or deny if Nadolsky was at the hearing. Nadolsky, who was once the school's varsity wrestling coach, is expected to file an appeal with the Michigan Tenure Commission. His attorney, Krista Durchik, also could not be reached.

"The guy should resign, retire and leave," said Bill Bloemendaal, a retired teacher and a 12-year member of the West Ottawa board.

Bloemendaal, however, voted against trying to fire Nadolsky, noting tenure battles are lengthy and that the teacher would be paid during the fight. The board member feels Nadolsky could supervise a study hall or perform another school function.

A student in the class where Nadolsky allegedly gave the improper tests said the teacher named the person who told administrators. The student said Nadolsky had difficulty explaining the concepts in class, and students were frustrated by their earlier failing grades.

"I think a lot of kids came into the class believing they couldn't get it," the student said, asking not to be named because he fears reprisal. "I think everybody was passing, unless they had attendance issues, but we weren't learning very much.

"At least I felt unprepared when I got to chemistry."

Among the other allegations by school officials:

• Nadolsky lied to administrators checking on his improper actions.

• He gave perfect scores to students who had not kept a journal and gave additional points to those who actually did the writing activity.

Zuker, the assistant superintendent, said there were no prior complaints about Nadolsky's testing practices.

"This is not the way the district wanted to handle this," he said.

Ah yes, the horrible test-mess that is both the public school system and "No child left behind"
Link (http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2008/01/teacher_could_face_firing_over.html)
Let's not forget how the government "Lost" over 2 trillion dollars...
Link (http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/linkscopy/PentaLoses.html)
Also link (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml)
More money for the Pentagon, CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales reports, while its own auditors admit the military cannot account for 25 percent of what it spends.

"According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions," Rumsfeld admitted.

$2.3 trillion — that's $8,000 for every man, woman and child in America. To understand how the Pentagon can lose track of trillions, consider the case of one military accountant who tried to find out what happened to a mere $300 million.

"We know it's gone. But we don't know what they spent it on," said Jim Minnery, Defense Finance and Accounting Service.

Minnery, a former Marine turned whistle-blower, is risking his job by speaking out for the first time about the millions he noticed were missing from one defense agency's balance sheets. Minnery tried to follow the money trail, even crisscrossing the country looking for records.

"The director looked at me and said 'Why do you care about this stuff?' It took me aback, you know? My supervisor asking me why I care about doing a good job," said Minnery.

He was reassigned and says officials then covered up the problem by just writing it off.

"They have to cover it up," he said. "That's where the corruption comes in. They have to cover up the fact that they can't do the job."

The Pentagon's Inspector General "partially substantiated" several of Minnery's allegations but could not prove officials tried "to manipulate the financial statements."

Twenty years ago, Department of Defense Analyst Franklin C. Spinney made headlines exposing what he calls the "accounting games." He's still there, and although he does not speak for the Pentagon, he believes the problem has gotten worse.

"Those numbers are pie in the sky. The books are cooked routinely year after year," he said.

Another critic of Pentagon waste, Retired Vice Admiral Jack Shanahan, commanded the Navy's 2nd Fleet the first time Donald Rumsfeld served as Defense Secretary, in 1976.

In his opinion, "With good financial oversight we could find $48 billion in loose change in that building, without having to hit the taxpayers."


And let's not forget Great Britain...
Data loss happens. But all the past instances of carelessness have been dwarfed by the sheer magnitude of the loss suffered by the British government. Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) office lost discs containing highly sensitive data, including names, dates of birth, bank account numbers, and home addresses of up to 25 million of its citizens.

These discs, which could represent up to 40 percent of the British population, are not encrypted. Rather, they are merely password protected, meaning that if they fell into the wrong hands, the information on them could be fairly easily extracted. Lets just hope it isn't one of the passwords on this list.

The HMRC has no reason to believe that the information is in the hands of criminals. This catastrophic loss of data comes only two months after the HMRC lost information on 15,000 customers of the Standard Life insurance company. This has led the already normally combative parliament to get even more feisty with Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who opposition leaders say is trying to shirk responsibility in this issue. To his credit, though, Brown has ordered an investigation, and has granted his Information Commissioner new powers to spot-check agencies to ensure the security of data.

Link (http://www.switched.com/2007/11/26/british-government-loses-data-on-25-million-citizens/)In (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=15&entry_id=22129)
Triplicate (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/11/21/britain.personal/)
How about some more British Government blunders? Linky (http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/articles/2007/12/dvla_dataloss.html)
T security and control firm Sophos is reminding organizations to tighten security following the announcement that the British government has again lost personal information, this time belonging to millions of UK drivers. The Driving and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) in the UK, employed a US company to house the names, addresses and phone numbers of more than three million learner drivers, on a hard drive. According to reports, the hard drive and all its details were lost in May 2007.

This latest data breach follows a number of government blunders, including the loss of unencrypted computer disks containing personal details of more than 25 million British families by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC).

In a separate incident, it was reported earlier this month that more disks had gone missing on route from the DVLA's office in Northern Ireland, to the agency's headquarters in Swansea. The unencrypted data contained information on 7,500 vehicles, including owner names and addresses, vehicle registrations, makes and colours, and chassis numbers.
That's all for now. Anyway, I don't want a government THAT inefficient (If I had more time I'm sure I could dig up more) in charge of my health. Do you?

Thats right today is the 60th anniversary of the launch of the NHS in Britan!
The NHS provides Free healthcare to all citizens, post your thoughts here.

More on the NHS -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_National_Health_Service
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)

Happy birthday to the NHS! A institution that the United Kingdom can be proud of. A high point of our society and culture, and proof that once we truly did have a sense of society.

Government inefficiency. A few examples might help here, so:


Ah yes, the horrible test-mess that is both the public school system and "No child left behind"
Link (http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2008/01/teacher_could_face_firing_over.html)
Let's not forget how the government "Lost" over 2 trillion dollars...
Link (http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/JohnJudge/linkscopy/PentaLoses.html)
Also link (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml)

And let's not forget Great Britain...

Link (http://www.switched.com/2007/11/26/british-government-loses-data-on-25-million-citizens/)In (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=15&entry_id=22129)
Triplicate (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/11/21/britain.personal/)
How about some more British Government blunders? Linky (http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/articles/2007/12/dvla_dataloss.html)

That's all for now. Anyway, I don't want a government THAT inefficient (If I had more time I'm sure I could dig up more) in charge of my health. Do you?

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make sense. None of that is about the NHS, but even if one ignores all those links and takes only your first sentence about inefficiancy there are problems. First, you haven't defined "efficient". Is it about low running costs or provision of the best healthcare for any given patient? Second, you haven't shown that the NHS meets your definition of inefficient. Third, you haven't shown that a private enterprise could do better or explained how it could be expected to.

In any case, you'd be hard pressed to separate the British from our much maligned but much loved NHS, which brings me to another point. How do you measure the less tangible but very real effects on the well being of everyday folks that comes from knowing that whatever happens to their health, they can rely on the NHS?

and finally: although the NHS is funded through the government, the people in charge of my healthcare are the doctors and nurses who took up a vocation. The level of attention to detail, medical expertise and actual caring that I have received on the NHS could not be bettered.

Congratulations, British people. May you drink your tea in good health for years to come. Meanwhile, our government can't seem to get it's head out of it's ass. Well, then again, it is America; where idiots reign.

True. Everything can be worse. It could be like Britain in V for Vendetta!

Best film ever! Brilliant cast, story, script, acting (bar Portman's accent!). God V is brilliant!

Absolutely zero. But:

He summed it up. Any system can use improvement.

Our health care system sure could use some improvement. I'd love to have some of the NHS. Preferably with a side of civil liberties and some homosexual marriage for dessert.

Sorry, I was being a bit of a git.

would be nice for them to bring back the Proper Matron back to the NHS

Hooray!

May it remain for another 60 hours.

~~Fixed.

Government inefficiency... I don't want a government THAT inefficient in charge of my health. Do you?
Does a damned fine job with my health, actually, and at a very reasonable price. If you need surgery, you will get it very quickly - yeah, you'll probably find some Daily Mail tearjerker about Agnis not getting her hip replacement for 17 years or something, but who really gives a shit about that?

Seriously, it's the sheer... reliability of the NHS which is what's so great about it. Just call one number to get an ambulance if need be, go to hospital and get things sorted out. Then leave. No messing about with insurance or handing over your money. Happy days.

Hooray for the NHS!

*drinks copious amounts of alcohol in celebration*

*ends up in hospital*

See a party, some health and a free bed for the night. Good times. :p

Of course it could do with improvement (if only so I don't have to listen to my wife moaning about her day as she works for it, but I realise that's an entirely selfish sentiment), what can't do with a little improvement?

As an institution though it is the crowning achievement of the post-war Labour government (or any Labour government to be fair) that we should be rightly proud of and grateful for.

How you care for your weak is a sign of your strength. Happy birthday NHS.

As a 'Frequent User', I'm incredibly grateful to the NHS. I've personally seen some blunders and administrative errors that make me agree that there is room for improvement, but nothing is perfect.