NationStates Jolt Archive

I ask this because so far this almost every day in the news another teenage murder is the main headline, usually from a stabbing. The latest was this horrific crime:


Two French research students found stabbed to death following a flat fire had been tied up and suffered horrific, excessive injuries, police have said.

The bodies of Laurent Bonomo and Gabriel Ferez, both 23, were found in a ground-floor flat in New Cross, south-east London, on Sunday night.

They had suffered a total of 243 stab wounds to the head, neck and chest before being set alight.

The bio-chemistry students had been at Imperial College for two months.

Det Ch Insp Mick Duthie said he had no idea why the students were killed.

Speaking at a news conference at Scotland Yard, he said the flat had been broken into six days before and a laptop had been stolen.

Police said they were shocked by the crime

He also said a white male was seen running from the scene of the fire, but police have not ruled out the possibility others might have been involved in the murders.

The students' neighbour told the BBC: "A fire was shocking enough, but when we came back the next day and were told that it was a murder scene, well no-one welcomes that.

"My wife was very upset, it's very shocking."

Mr Duthie said one line of inquiry was that the attack was a case of mistaken identity.

"We cannot find anything in these two young men's background to suggest they were involved in any criminality, that they had done anything wrong," he said.

A London Fire Brigade cordon outside the flat where French students Laurent Bonomo and Gabriel Ferez were found dead
The two bodies were found in the ground-floor flat

The BBC's crime correspondent Ben Ando said Mr Bonomo had 196 stab wounds, including 100 to his back, and Mr Ferez had been stabbed 47 times.

He added a chemical was used as an accelerant in the fire.

Mr Duthie said: "The extent of the injuries are horrific.

"Everyone working on this case, including myself, has been deeply shocked by what we have seen.

"I have never seen injuries like this throughout my career.

"I would not say this was a professional attack. I would say it was a frenzied, horrible, horrific attack.

"I imagine it would take some considerable amount of time to inflict the nature of the injuries."

The detective said no weapon had been recovered during extensive searches in the area and police were studying some "limited" CCTV footage.

Bright futures

Mr Duthie said the students had been in London since the beginning of May and were due to return to France at the end of July.

Imperial College's Rector, Sir Roy Anderson, said: "Laurent and Gabriel had bright futures ahead of them and it is dreadful that their lives should end so soon."

The emergency services were called after residents reported an explosion in Sterling Gardens on Sunday night.

Mr Ferez, who lived at another south London address, was visiting his close friend Mr Bonomo when the attack took place.

Mr Duthie said Mr Bonomo was known to be alive in the early hours of Sunday morning because he spoke to his girlfriend in France.

The parents of the two men are in the UK and have had to identify their sons, police said.

Police said Mr Bonomo, of Velaux, and Mr Ferez, of Prouzel, studied in Clermont-Ferrand, central France, and had been chosen to take part in a three-month research project into chains of protein within DNA at Imperial College.

BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7487126.stm)

My mum is understandably worried about my safety for when I go back to university in September as I will be living on the estate. She wasn't so worried last year as I was on campus and we had 24/7 security guards.

Anyway what do you believe is causing all this needless violence? How can it be stopped? Though overall crime rates are falling violent crime is rising. What say you NSG?

I want to go to London and get murdered violently.

Yeah this just down the road from me, and unfortunatly it is fairly indicitive of the area I live in.

Shootings, stabbings, muggings, and now arson happen frequently.

It's a horrible, inhumane crime, but please keep in mind that such atrocities are not common in our Western societies.

This violence was also one of the reasons one of my future flatmates decided to get a 1st floor flat instead of a ground floor flat. She was scared that we would be broken into. The area where I am going to live has a high student population and I'm only across the road from the campus I lived on last year.

It's quite worrying to see that all this happening.

It's a horrible, inhumane crime, but please keep in mind that such atrocities are not common in our Western societies.

Ahem *cough* I refer you to my post above.

The killing of youths by youths is certainly becoming more common though. How many under-18s have been killed in London by under-18s since the beginning of 2008? I can't remember, but I do remember being shocked at the number.

It's a horrible, inhumane crime, but please keep in mind that such atrocities are not common in our Western societies.

Tell that to London...I think there have been about 20 or so violent teenage murders this year. If it continues at this rate then it'll be more than last year which holds the record at 27.

It's a horrible, inhumane crime, but please keep in mind that such atrocities are not common in our Western societies.

No, the atrocities of "Western" societies are commonly committed against former colonies and/or neo-colonies and most commonly against people of color. Bombings of civilian populations, rape and plunder, invasion and ecological disaster, and genocide are pretty much reserved for indigenous peoples, and Viet Namese, Afghans, Iraqis, etc.:sniper:

Tell that to London...I think there have been about 20 or so violent teenage murders this year. If it continues at this rate then it'll be more than last year which holds the record at 27.

You wrote a big huge post over 20 deaths? Id be more concerned injuring yourself getting out of the shower.

I think society has ALWAYS been violent ever since the dawn of civilization. It just seems nowadays the media reports every single case of homicide and violence, where as in the middle ages when the average person gets robbed and killed, no one really notices or cares.

No, the atrocities of "Western" societies are commonly committed against former colonies and/or neo-colonies and most commonly against people of color. Bombings of civilian populations, rape and plunder, invasion and ecological disaster, and genocide are pretty much reserved for indigenous peoples, and Viet Namese, Afghans, Iraqis, etc.:sniper:

That's stupid.

You wrote a big huge post over 20 deaths? Id be more concerned injuring yourself getting out of the shower.

This is about 15 to 24 year olds murders and deaths. At the moment 2008 is the second highest year on record concerning murders in this age group. 2007 was the highest:

Source (http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2007/12/11/kurt_teen_murders_feature.shtml)

EDIT: And that's just London

I've got a little theory about that. Nothing scientific, just something that occured to me years ago, while studying the social behaviour of other mammals (mostly small rodents).

I think a lot of the growing violence is linked with the growing population numbers and the associated higher stress levels. There has been research showing that the human mind can handle social groups of up to 200 individuals. Anybody beyond that is a stranger, and strangers are potential enemies.
Society until about 150 years ago consited mostly of small to medium-size communities, with hierarchies and social roles well-established. With the onset of the industrial revolution, things started to change : cities grew to simply massive sizes, and a feeling of being anonymus and among stangers was one of the results. And they are still growing, but our brains haven't yet caught on.
Populations of that size can cause massive amounts of social stress in certain individuals, and result in some of them "snapping", especially when further stress is applied (such as social failure by not finding work, problems with friends and family, etc.)

That is in no way an excuse for any sort of criminal behaviour. But I think it might be one of the sources of the rise in aggression and violent crimes. It might be worth it looking at find ing ways to diffuse such aggression as a method of crime prevention.

27 deaths is practically nothing. Even the 167 deaths that the metro police report as homicides for the last year (available on their website) is incredibly small compared to the population of London.

167 / 8 278 251 (london population as of 2001, sure to be even larger now) = 2.01733434 × 10-5

That relegates such behavior to a very, very small segment of the population. SOME people, at least, are always crazies. This segment seems to be them. It doesn't seem particularly worrisome in light of society going down the drain, anyway.

I want to go to London and get murdered violently.

I believe that politicians promised that violent crime would end when the guns were banned, and the knives were banned...

Doesn't look like it's stopping anytime soon.

There's a hole in the world like a great black pit
and the vermin of the world inhabit it
and its morals aren't worth what a pig could spit
and it goes by the name of London.

At the top of the hole sit the privileged few
Making mock of the vermin in the lower zoo
turning beauty to filth and greed...

I too have sailed the world and seen its wonders,
for the cruelty of men is as wonderous as Peru
but there's no place like London!

snip

http://xkcd.com/435/, etc.

I believe that politicians promised that violent crime would end when the guns were banned, and the knives were banned...

Doesn't look like it's stopping anytime soon.

Unless gangs start recruiting ninjas, I'd be more worried about the guns. At least with knives people don't tend to die in the crossfire.

this particular crime seems to me to be psychotic. that makes it an anomaly rather than a trend (unless there is a trend to psychosis in the UK)

otherwise there are bad people everywhere and always have been. the best you can do is to organize with your neighbors to work on keeping each other safe. if your area is known for being hard to get away with break-ins, fewer will happen.

and take all the common precautions that adults take when living in the modern world. keep your doors locked, keep an eye on who is coming and going. minimize the amount of high value, easily fenced items that you keep in your home. dont room with idiots who invite sketchy strangers over to party. that sort of thing.

you cant live your life as if the once-in-a-decade horrific crime is going to happen to you. its far less likely than being killed in a horrific car accident and yet you dont avoid automobiles.

Unless gangs start recruiting ninjas, I'd be more worried about the guns. At least with knives people don't tend to die in the crossfire.
'course with knives, we don't die from crossfire. We die from crossstabs.

'course with knives, we don't die from crossfire. We die from crossstabs.

Only if you hurl yourself into the fray. :)

Only if you hurl yourself into the fray. :)

In the UK, hurling yourself into the fray is illegal. You're essentially not allowed to defend yourself.

In the UK, hurling yourself into the fray is illegal. You're essentially not allowed to defend yourself.

Is it? That's news to me, to be sure... Any sources on this?

Only if you hurl yourself into the fray. :)
Yes I will. Thank you for the advice. ;)

Yes I will. Thank you for the advice. ;)

*buys nunchunks, ships to Brutland and Norden*

In the UK, hurling yourself into the fray is illegal. You're essentially not allowed to defend yourself.

Defend yourself? Wha?
I was never talking about defending yourself…

In the UK, hurling yourself into the fray is illegal. You're essentially not allowed to defend yourself.

Since when?

*buys nunchunks, ships to Brutland and Norden*
Thank you, thank you. Now, how can I die violently from this stuff? :confused:

Is it? That's news to me, to be sure... Any sources on this?

http://www.bsdgb.co.uk/index.php?Information:The_Law_Relating_to_Self_Defence

You can't hurl yourself into the fray.

You can defend yourself only if you're immediately in extremis.

And then you have to do so in such a way as to convince a jury that you were being "reasonable". This means, while you have no legal reason to retreat, it certainly shows the jury that you were being "reasonable", so essentially, you have to retreat and run away where possible.

You also have to be able to prove that you had no intention of being violent to the person threatening you - that is, you have to show the other person that you're being reasonable and you don't want to fight - you'll have to do something therefore that will later convince the jury you had no intention of fighting back until cornered and left with no other alternative.

Doing something else, such as taking your legal right to not wait to be attacked in your own home, leaves you at the mercy of a jury - which in several quite public cases has been very unforgiving to the defendant.

While various sources in the UK have spoken of what we in the US call castle doctrine, you have no such guarantee in the UK - the jury is likely to expect you to leap out of a window in your home if possible and run away.

I've also been told that if you're being attacked in the UK, it's best to shout, "Call the Police" even, and especially, if you're defending yourself. Shouting "Help!" is arguably a situation where you, and whoever helps you physically, are trying to beat down the attacker without the help of the proper authorities, which in the eyes of a jury is extremely questionable behavior.