NationStates Jolt Archive

Hi all, this is probably a daft place to ask but there's a pretty diverse group of people on here so somebody might have expertise or experience that might help.

Anyway, where I work one of my colleagues has just been appropriated by another department of the company, and because of financial difficulties they aren't going to hire a replacement - there's a freeze on recruitment at the moment. A few months ago they did the very same thing with another member of my department and didn't replace him either, which means there are only two of us left doing the work of four (the other remaining member of my department being my rather stuck-up line manager).

I've been told that after my line manager has had a meeting with his boss, I'll be called in to discuss how this course of events will change my job role. They've 'changed my role' not long ago, to include more work, and I let it slide, but if I get piled up with much more - especially the monotonous stuff my colleague was tasked with - I might start going grey. Worse still, I don't get paid a great deal as it is, and our entire department was recently moved from an office fairly close to my home, to an office in a neighbouring city, which has impacted on my pocket book quite a bit.

So I'm thinking of demanding a pay rise, and refusing to accept the additional work unless I get one. My colleague who just departed was paid a significant amount more than my minuscule pay cheque (we compared before she left), and I don't think it's quite fair that I should be doing her work on top of mine without some kind of remuneration in exchange. I'm not going to demand an equal pay cheque, but... something.

But that's where I'm stuck.

As far as I'm aware, they aren't allowed to significantly change your job role without your approval. If I take advantage of their situation by demanding more money as a condition of my acceptance of this extra workload, is there any kind of comeback they could wield against me in response? For example, if they filed a disciplinary against me or fired me outright, would it be valid? If there is any risk of rocking the boat, can anyone think of a different approach that might work better? If it makes a difference, I'm in the UK.

I am looking for another job, incidentally, but I have been for a long time now and the few that I've found that I could do, I didn't get, so I don't want to burn my bridges before I've even crossed them!

I really hate the moderated posts function. I don't like to bump posts (it's pretty rude so far as forum etiquette goes) but with this moderated thing, it's essential. I just really want advice about this issue, as I'm afraid that if I do go into this meeting and say "hi, I'll only do this extra work if you give me extra money" that I'll get fired. And at the moment, getting fired wouldn't be a good thing for me. Or for anybody, I suppose.

You might want to mention where you live. Employment laws aren't universal.

You might want to mention where you live. Employment laws aren't universal.

He/she did. UK.

You might want to mention where you live. Employment laws aren't universal.

Indeed! The Disunited Queendom of Not-so-Great Britain and North-Eastern Ireland. Shropshire, to be exact.

Are you in any union or do you have any works council? If not, check your contract. If it says 'any other duties' in small print at the bottom you may be in trouble. My company is a large organisatation which can only change a percentage of your duties without having to make it a new job (then open to pay rise etc but with the downside of possibly having to re-apply for the job)

It's perfectly reasonable to ask for compensation of you're doing more work than you can logically handle. You shouldn't be afraid to state right out that it is too much for one person. Explain that you didn't mind the first increase but any further ones would impede on your ability to efficiently do your job.

If you want the raise, explain why in economical terms that would appeal to a business minded person.

For example, if you want the raise, say that the small incremental raise is better than hiring someone else as a small cost of living raise is economically sound for both parties. Or something along those lines. When you bring up money, also mention how you feel you've contributed to the company - yes, it's brown nosing but you've got to kiss some ass in your life time.

If the raise bit doesn't go over well, go into "job efficiency". No one likes a worker who can't be efficient. In fact, there is a new study that shows multitasking doesn't actually save time.

He/she did. UK.
So they did...

Check your contract. You can probably be asked to take on extra work by your line manager. What is a reasonable amount is a matter of opinion. In case it all ends badly start keeping copies of all letters/emails/records of conversations just in case it ends in an industrial tribunal.

Too often we see these things from our own POV.

Yet if you think about your employers POV, they would rather pay you some more than have to hire a new person and train them.

If I were you I would lay out your entirely reasonable grounds for a pay rise along the lines of:

1. There's 2 people doing the job of 4, your pay rise is certainly not the value of the wages of 2 extra people.
2. Hiring a new person will take time and training, which may be more costly than a simple pay rise.
3. You're traveling further, thus you have less take home pay.

Basically, if you're reasonable in terms of asking for a pay rise, I doubt they won't be reasonable in giving it.

Lay out your terms, either state them outright or, if you want, write a letter outlining your position.

Too often people devalue their worth when simply asking can do wonders.

Are you in any union or do you have any works council? If not, check your contract. If it says 'any other duties' in small print at the bottom you may be in trouble. My company is a large organisatation which can only change a percentage of your duties without having to make it a new job (then open to pay rise etc but with the downside of possibly having to re-apply for the job)

I work for a newspaper; the journalists in this country have a national union all their own, but the rest of us are left to our own devices.

I have actually been reading through my contract for a few days now, which is one of the reasons why I'm so unsure; the only thing it says is this:

You are employed as *INSERT JOB TITLE HERE* but you are expected to undertake such suitable duties as are reasonably assigned to you from time to time by the Company, irrespective of job title, job description or publication.

Now while I can't believe I ever signed this contract full of similarly vague loop holes (at the time, I was desperate for any job, because it was getting to the point where I would have had to sell my car amongst other things just to keep going), I still think that requiring me to take on the role of three people, with the two who have left having very dissimilar jobs to my own, is a bit unfair, especially considering how much (or little - and I'm not exaggerating, it's about 1.5 times minimum wage in this country) I get paid. Maybe I'm just being greedy, I don't know. But ever since my office was moved to another city I've been losing more money than I've earned, and I've cut down on a lot of things.

It's perfectly reasonable to ask for compensation of you're doing more work than you can logically handle. You shouldn't be afraid to state right out that it is too much for one person. Explain that you didn't mind the first increase but any further ones would impede on your ability to efficiently do your job.

If you want the raise, explain why in economical terms that would appeal to a business minded person.

For example, if you want the raise, say that the small incremental raise is better than hiring someone else as a small cost of living raise is economically sound for both parties. Or something along those lines. When you bring up money, also mention how you feel you've contributed to the company - yes, it's brown nosing but you've got to kiss some ass in your life time.

If the raise bit doesn't go over well, go into "job efficiency". No one likes a worker who can't be efficient. In fact, there is a new study that shows multitasking doesn't actually save time.

Nice ideas, thanks. I hadn't thought of it like that. Hiring somebody else would definitely cost them more, given what the colleague who left earned. Seeing as I've already booked over £6,000 today alone (almost half my annual pay!!!) I'm really hoping it'll go down well - but this company has a certain reputation, you see. It's a privately owned firm, whose bosses are womanising, greedy sods and morale across the board is low. Combined with my highly vague (verging on illegal, according to one of my colleagues) contract, I'm very worried that they might just get rid of me and hire somebody else.

But for something like your job, it's best to get a second opinion I think.

easy steps

1) panic
2) keep your head down
3) pray that you find another job quick (tis the season for bar work etc)

the wonders of downsizing :)

Check your contract. You can probably be asked to take on extra work by your line manager. What is a reasonable amount is a matter of opinion. In case it all ends badly start keeping copies of all letters/emails/records of conversations just in case it ends in an industrial tribunal.

Well I'm not asking to be paid as much as the person who just left; she earned considerably more than I did, and no matter how optimistic I get I know for a fact that it just wouldn't happen in a cash-strapped company. But maybe meeting me half-way wouldn't be too much to ask?

I think I will take your advice and start recording everything. People have suggested that to me before, but I'm too trusting!

Here in Virginia (in the US, there are differing employment laws from state to state, and they also vary often by company, or if you have a union that has work rules defined in the union contract), if you're given more work, you do as much as you can for a while (to show you can do the extra work), and then ask for a raise, or time off, or some sort of compensation.

If you have shown you can actually do the extra work, they usually pay you the money, because they know you're productive. Productive people can always leave and work somewhere else, and here in the US, they know this.

Some supervisors here are fearful of the productive worker, because it's someone who can potentially take the supervisor's job.

figure out how much more money you need to cover your extra commuting costs, add in at least 1/2 the difference between your pay and your ex colleague's pay.

ask for it.

if they refuse, start looking for a new job in your own area.

Too often we see these things from our own POV.

Yet if you think about your employers POV, they would rather pay you some more than have to hire a new person and train them.

If I were you I would lay out your entirely reasonable grounds for a pay rise along the lines of:

1. There's 2 people doing the job of 4, your pay rise is certainly not the value of the wages of 2 extra people.
2. Hiring a new person will take time and training, which may be more costly than a simple pay rise.
3. You're traveling further, thus you have less take home pay.

Basically, if you're reasonable in terms of asking for a pay rise, I doubt they won't be reasonable in giving it.

Lay out your terms, either state them outright or, if you want, write a letter outlining your position.

Too often people devalue their worth when simply asking can do wonders.

You're absolutely right, and I was planning on doing just that. I just don't like to rock the boat, and I'm worried that there might not be any legal protection for me to ask for a payrise in exchange for extra work - in my mind, after thinking a lot about it, it sounds a lot like blackmail. I'm worried that they might start a disciplinary hearing about it, just because of how vague my contract is. I should probably have mentioned that in the original post, actually; but as far as I'm concerned it sounds like a fairly reasonable request as you say.

Considering what my job role was when I started, and what it has become, I'm very doubtful as to whether they'd even be able to hire anybody on the pay I'm on now, which is one reason why I really think pushing for a payrise now is worth it. But I'm sure you all know that money is a very important thing, and when you've got responsibilities you don't like to take risks with your livelihood.

But based on the comments so far, I'm leaning towards the optimistic side of the fence. Does anybody know of a UK website which has some kind of database relating to UK employment laws? Common sense is one thing, but employment law is a whole other thing!

DirectGov website has some info about employment rights

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/index.htm

You don't work for the NHS do you? They do this all the time.