NationStates Jolt Archive

hypothetical situation, If you saw a criminal act, (a) mugging (b) assault
(c) sexual assault.

Would you do something to stop it? What would that action be?

I'm curious .

hypothetical situation, If you saw a criminal act, (a) mugging (b) assault
(c) sexual assault.

Would you do something to stop it? What would that action be?

I'm curious .

I'd inform the authorities ASAP and fight if the guy tries to stop me from filing a report.

Most of the time the presence of others will stop most of these things without me having to do much more than a lot of yelling.

Numbers does more than anything. I can't stop bullets or 'ninja' anyone.

hypothetical situation, If you saw a criminal act, (a) mugging (b) assault
(c) sexual assault.

Would you do something to stop it? What would that action be?

I'm curious .

I have been involved in (b) when a friend was assulted when we were walking home

Not quite an "unknown" person but I did not initially know it was him as he put a coat on ... I stepped in with the group of guys attacking him and defended him to the point of placing me in the hospital with a punctured lung from a stab wound

They required medical attention as well but they very possibly could have killed him and I have no regrets in this reguard

hypothetical situation, If you saw a criminal act, (a) mugging (b) assault
(c) sexual assault.

Would you do something to stop it? What would that action be?

I'm curious .

Where I live, deadly force is authorized to prevent the commission of a violent felony. I legally carry a concealed weapon. First I would order the perpetrator to stop, and then inform them that they are under citizens arrest for X crime. If they stop and run, Ill let the police handle it. If they dont, then the perpetrator will be leaving a trail of blood as they flee, or leaving the scene in an ambulance or body bag.

http://www.moviecitynews.com/static_images/images/2006/170x170/bronson.jpg

Death Wish FTW!

hypothetical situation, If you saw a criminal act, (a) mugging (b) assault
(c) sexual assault.

Would you do something to stop it? What would that action be?

I'm curious .

The best thing to do is to be a good witness and not a dead man with a good intention.

As horrible as it is, I probably wouldn't go beyond calling the cops. In fact, I'd probably run away after I called them.

I would fight with everything I've got if someone were in physical danger. I don't have a concealed carry permit, so I'd be limited to my pocket knife (as far as any of you need to know... :P). Better than nothing, I guess. If it were an unarmed robbery, I don't know what I'd do. Probably get as good a description as possible.

hypothetical situation, If you saw a criminal act, (a) mugging (b) assault
(c) sexual assault.

Would you do something to stop it? What would that action be?

I'm curious .

immediate defense of a third party isn't really vigilantism

hypothetical situation, If you saw a criminal act, (a) mugging (b) assault
(c) sexual assault.

Would you do something to stop it? What would that action be?

I'm curious .

Have stopped it before, saw a couple of punks (troublesome kids) trying to break into a friends car and chased them away.

But in the three cases above it depends on the situation in all cases I would call 000 which I did do once when a large group of guys got into a fight spilling onto the road (good thing the cops had a station just up the road) if I knew I could stop it I would if I thought that by rushing in would not help the situation and get me in to some serious grief I would hold back and inform the police.

hypothetical situation, If you saw a criminal act, (a) mugging (b) assault
(c) sexual assault.

Would you do something to stop it? What would that action be?

I'm curious .Depends on how well armed the assailant is. If I believe I have a chance of physically stopping them, I'll do it, but otherwise I'll inform the police.

But what does this have to do with vigilantianism?

First of all I would buy the OP a dictionary, then intervene, then stop.

Step 1: Call cops
Step 2: Find weapon
Step 3: Roll initiative

As horrible as it is, I probably wouldn't go beyond calling the cops. In fact, I'd probably run away after I called them.

Same here, I'm such a wuss!!

Most of the time the presence of others will stop most of these things without me having to do much more than a lot of yelling.

Numbers does more than anything. I can't stop bullets or 'ninja' anyone.

You're gonna have to work on that buddy. I keep my ninja sword in my sock along with my assault rifle for just such emergencies. Not that I need them because I'm a 6th degree black belt.

I also have an indestructible sentient black trans-am named K.I.T.T. :)

It all depends on a situation. Gang assaulting a lone person? I'm better off getting away before they move from victim to witnesses. I happen to walk into crime scene where I think I could actually make a difference? Yes, I'd probably help.

As for calling police, I'm ashamed to admit that I would probably not be able to guide them to right place as I'm horrible with street names...

Yeah, I'll probably intervene.

I only have basic karate training (took Isshin-ryu karate for a semester in college) but they did talk about disarming people and breaking limbs. Even if the guy has a gun - especially if he has a gun, he's not expecting someone to jump his ass. I think I could fuck someone up pretty good if I had to.

And for the sake of whatever you find holy, don't fall to the bystander effect and watch as someone gets stabbed to death in front of you and 37 other people. Do something, the responsibility only diffuses if someone gets off their ass and does something.

Stopping a violent crime in progress in the US depends on the jurisdiction you're in.

If you're in Texas or Florida, you have more legal options to intervene in a violent crime - and in Texas alone, you have civil immunity from lawsuits.

Here in the US, in addition to criminal penalties, you have to worry about being sued by the perpetrator or his surviving relatives, except in Texas. You might be considered a good guy by the general public and the police, and the bad guy will get a lawyer and sue you, and possibly win your house, your car, your money, and everything you make for the rest of your life.

In several cases where police were called, arrived, and shot the perpetrator, the police were found to have conducted a legal shooting against a criminal who was engaged in a violent act - and still there was a civil lawsuit - which also named the person who dialed 911 to call for the police as a defendant in that lawsuit.

Just dialing 911 can get you into civil court. Why did you call? You might not lose, but you'll be out thousands of dollars in lawyer's fees - many people don't have that kind of money, and the police union isn't going to help you with your court costs. The idea is to bankrupt you and destroy your life just by filing suit. In the US, you only get a free lawyer if it's a criminal case, or if you're very, very lucky and a lawyer decides to do pro bono. If you still have some money and income left, that's not an option - you have to be nearly broke to qualify.

Stopping a violent crime in progress in the US depends on the jurisdiction you're in.

If you're in Texas or Florida, you have more legal options to intervene in a violent crime - and in Texas alone, you have civil immunity from lawsuits.

Here in the US, in addition to criminal penalties, you have to worry about being sued by the perpetrator or his surviving relatives, except in Texas. You might be considered a good guy by the general public and the police, and the bad guy will get a lawyer and sue you, and possibly win your house, your car, your money, and everything you make for the rest of your life.

In several cases where police were called, arrived, and shot the perpetrator, the police were found to have conducted a legal shooting against a criminal who was engaged in a violent act - and still there was a civil lawsuit - which also named the person who dialed 911 to call for the police as a defendant in that lawsuit.

Just dialing 911 can get you into civil court. Why did you call? You might not lose, but you'll be out thousands of dollars in lawyer's fees - many people don't have that kind of money, and the police union isn't going to help you with your court costs. The idea is to bankrupt you and destroy your life just by filing suit. In the US, you only get a free lawyer if it's a criminal case, or if you're very, very lucky and a lawyer decides to do pro bono. If you still have some money and income left, that's not an option - you have to be nearly broke to qualify.

Didn't realize the legal consequences, but to hell with them. I have a moral code that requires me to intervene. And while I have almost no money to speak of, my parents do. Or I could call a radio station - don't radio stations sometimes pay legal fees for people who they think were doing the right thing?

Didn't realize the legal consequences, but to hell with them. I have a moral code that requires me to intervene. And while I have almost no money to speak of, my parents do. Or I could call a radio station - don't radio stations sometimes pay legal fees for people who they think were doing the right thing?Germany has better laws where this is concerned. For one, you can be charged with "Failure to Help" if you clearly could have (calling the cops or an ambulance), and secondly, such a civil case will likely be thrown out after the court decides that the person suing you needs to cover your legal fees in addition to their own.

hypothetical situation, If you saw a criminal act, (a) mugging (b) assault
(c) sexual assault.

Would you do something to stop it? What would that action be?

I'm curious .

Intervene. Fight or kill if necessary. Then call the cops.

I have been involved in (b) when a friend was assulted when we were walking home

Not quite an "unknown" person but I did not initially know it was him as he put a coat on ... I stepped in with the group of guys attacking him and defended him to the point of placing me in the hospital with a punctured lung from a stab wound

They required medical attention as well but they very possibly could have killed him and I have no regrets in this reguard

You sir, have my respect.

immediate defense of a third party isn't really vigilantism

^this

When it's just a mugging it's kind of hard to be truly honest and say I'd charge in, since even the victim is always advised to just let the mugger have what they want to avoid it escalating to violence.

If it's an assault, that can be murky because what's the difference between an assault and a fistfight? Not always obvious.

A sexual assault is pretty damn obvious AND is already well on its way to something very near a worst-case scenario, so yes, time to fight. Rapists do what they do out of a need for power, not sex, so chances are when confronted by an opponent who can actually hurt them, they'll run off.

hypothetical situation, If you saw a criminal act, (a) mugging (b) assault
(c) sexual assault.

Would you do something to stop it? What would that action be?

I'm curious .
1) Defense of self or others is not vigilantism.

2) If I saw a person being the victim of a crime, I would definitely try to intervene. I have absolutely no idea how. I'm tiny and weak and but have a belligerent, aggressive personality and little sense of when to back down when I'm pissed off. So I guess I would interfere with the crime by getting my ass kicked by the assailant until the cops arrived. Actually, I'd probably yell real loud and throw things at the assailant if there was anything to throw -- rocks, garbage, my shoes and stuff, etc. Oh, and of course, I'd call 911 -- while throwing stuff -- I'd have to be sure not to throw my phone, though.

3) If I saw a person committing a crime against property (theft, vandalism, etc), I probably wouldn't bother with it unless I saw someone breaking into someone else's house. This is because I don't value property as much as I value people. If a house/apartment is being broken into, that can be creating an immediate danger to any person inside or soon to return. But a car or bike getting stolen? Fuck it. It's only stuff.

If it's an assault, that can be murky because what's the difference between an assault and a fistfight? Not always obvious.The punching back bit.

Didn't realize the legal consequences

Don't take anything Hotwife says seriously.

The punching back bit.

Well generally speaking even a person who is BEING assaulted is punching back...

I mean, if it's THAT obvious then it's easier to know when to intervene.

My fear is that I'd see some guy beating the hell out of another guy, jump in, beat the assailant down, only to find out he was pummeling the victim because the victim had just raped the assailant's sister or something...

In which case I'd have wanted to join in.

Well generally speaking even a person who is BEING assaulted is punching back...I can say from personal experience that this isn't true. In fact, had I punched back, it would have been assault on my part as well.

I mean, if it's THAT obvious then it's easier to know when to intervene.

My fear is that I'd see some guy beating the hell out of another guy, jump in, beat the assailant down, only to find out he was pummeling the victim because the victim had just raped the assailant's sister or something...

In which case I'd have wanted to join in.How noble of you. Even then, you should separate them, since then it would be an act of vigilantism.

I can say from personal experience that this isn't true. In fact, had I punched back, it would have been assault on my part as well.

Ouch. What happened?


How noble of you. Even then, you should separate them, since then it would be an act of vigilantism.

That is true.

But I was kinda joking anyway.

Ouch. What happened?
Hilarious story, really. Back when I was twenty and working with the Caritas in a children's and youth club, I got into a quarrel with a 14 year old kid (the quarrel being that he was currently barred from the grounds of the place and I told him to leave). After a bit of verbal sparring, he threw a stick at me and hit me on the head, after which I ran after him and grabbed him. Then he punched me and apparently the fact that I didn't feel it scared him shitless. So I told him to shove off and went inside, discovering that I had a minor flesh wound from the stick under my hairline.

The next day, when we relayed the events to the rest of the team, I was told to go to a doctor to get a writ on my "injuries" and wait for the police. As it turns out, throwing a stick at someone's head constitutes "Dangerous Assault". Had I punched back, it's likely I would have been in trouble, seeing as I was 6 years older than the kid and apparently more capable of doing damage.

Hilarious story, really. Back when I was twenty and working with the Caritas in a children's and youth club, I got into a quarrel with a 14 year old kid (the quarrel being that he was currently barred from the grounds of the place and I told him to leave). After a bit of verbal sparring, he threw a stick at me and hit me on the head, after which I ran after him and grabbed him. Then he punched me and apparently the fact that I didn't feel it scared him shitless. So I told him to shove off and went inside, discovering that I had a minor flesh wound from the stick under my hairline.

The next day, when we relayed the events to the rest of the team, I was told to go to a doctor to get a writ on my "injuries" and wait for the police. As it turns out, throwing a stick at someone's head constitutes "Dangerous Assault". Had I punched back, it's likely I would have been in trouble, seeing as I was 6 years older than the kid and apparently more capable of doing damage.

Ohhhhh well then yeah I see what you mean. But then again, if I were there witnessing it, it seems like it was clear you had the situation under control.

Ohhhhh well then yeah I see what you mean. But then again, if I were there witnessing it, it seems like it was clear you had the situation under control.Yeah, I was kind of surprised at how big a deal it was.

hypothetical situation, If you saw a criminal act, (a) mugging (b) assault
(c) sexual assault.

Would you do something to stop it? What would that action be?

I'm curious .

Depends on the situation ... You can a rather poor explanation so I can't really give you an accurate answer.

hypothetical situation: rush to help and/or call the police
real situation: try to remain unnoticed, if having the means possibly call the police

You're gonna have to work on that buddy. I keep my ninja sword in my sock along with my assault rifle for just such emergencies. Not that I need them because I'm a 6th degree black belt.

I also have an indestructible sentient black trans-am named K.I.T.T. :)

And that nifty Irony Beam weapon you have...

Don't take anything Hotwife says seriously.

Nice to know you don't understand how the laws have changed since the days of Blackstone.

I also have an indestructible sentient black trans-am named K.I.T.T. :)
Wow! Not even the real K.I.T.T. was indestructable! =o

Wow! Not even the real K.I.T.T. was indestructable! =o

Everything is relative, yanno. K.I.T.T. compared to my old Jeep... Indestructible.

For that matter... the average Toyota would compare as indestructible, too....:(

Step 1: Call cops
Step 2: Find weapon
Step 3: Roll initiative

4. Hope you get the jump on them, then hope again they fail their reflex save.



I'm always carrying at LEAST a combat knife on me at all times. I think people should be prepared, and if more people carried weapons, everyone would be more respectful.

Would you want to yell at a guy who you knew had a .44 Magnum and would use it?

Would you want to yell at a guy who you knew had a .44 Magnum and would use it?

Everyone having weapons wouldn't make people respect each other. It'd have the opposite effect as it would just cheapen life. :(

Not yelling at a homicidal maniac doesn't mean you "respect" him, it means you have working survival instincts.

You don't have to respect someone to be respectful.

And if being an asshole could get you shot, or in some other manner severely injured, I'm sure people would work very hard to be at very least civil with one another.

Ever wish you could get back at some jerk in your life? I know you have.

Live the reality of it.

Human life IS cheap. You see people throw it away every day for drugs, wealth, sex, land, even pitiful shit. You could get killed for a few quid in some areas.

I do not value my life over anyone else's, but I sure as hell don't value theirs over mine, either.

Absolutely I would interfere, and have in the past, with example (a) and (b), thought it wasn't vigilante justice. Ended up in the hospital twice, both times for knife injuries (a bad cut on my arm and a stab wound in my left shoulder).

As for the vigilante part, my best friend's boyfriend got pissed she wouldn't give it up to him, so he broke her nose and did things I'd rather not go into details about. In response, my buddy and I found him and worked him over.
Legal? Not even close. But very, very satisfying, and he damn well wont beat up on any more girls.

hypothetical situation, If you saw a criminal act, (a) mugging (b) assault
(c) sexual assault.

Would you do something to stop it? What would that action be?

I'm curious .

Depends. Attempt to stop the crime with minimal use of force so I will list my maximum.
to stop a mugging I generally will beat the snot out of the guy. will use deadly force(concealed carry) if he is armed with a knife however. If he runs I am more likely to make sure the victim is okay then pursue more then a block or two. never know where he might have some friends hiding around the corner.

to stop an assault. Depends on the nature of the assault if the attacker is armed or in a group. If armed or in a large group I tend to respond with deadly force after attempting to get the activity to cease verbally. If just one on one its not really assault but a fight and I would only move to intervene when one or the other is hurt to the point where they might die.

To stop sexual assault. this is tricky depends on the situation. at a party where i have been drinking I am unlikely to be armed. If a guy is trying to get a way to drunk girl up stairs I will try to prevent it and get party consensus or the female's friends to also prevent it. maybe go so far to end up in fight over the matter.

If I walk in on a girl trying to push a guy off of her i will grab him and throw him off. if he resist i will beat the snot out of him.

stranger rape(10%) out in the streets I will just kill the fucker(s) if i can get a clear shot. and pistol whip and then shoot them if not.

Call police
Locate help
Scare away/subdue bad guy with resulting gang of people

:)

I cast Magic Missile.

hypothetical situation, If you saw a criminal act, (a) mugging (b) assault
(c) sexual assault.

Would you do something to stop it? What would that action be?

I'm curious .

Intervening in any of the above hypotheticals would not really be considered vigilantism.

Beating the suspect to death, essentially acting as the judge, jury and executioner is entirely a different issue.

I cast Magic Missile.

You do not have enough mana to cast magic missile.

You do not have enough mana to cast magic missile.

Ha! I'm a Vancian caster!

*realizes he doesn't have any spell slots left either*

Oh...damn.

And if being an asshole could get you shot, --

Or just being in the wrong place when the guy flips. :p

Ever wish you could get back at some jerk in your life?

By killing him/her? Hell no.

Human life IS cheap.

Sure. But there's no need to cheapen it more by having everyone carry a gun and be allowed to shoot anyone they want.

This subject reminds me of when I was still doing some martial arts, namely escrima (or some such, been years...).

We were told by our instructor that if you ever get in a fight, it's pretty much better to run due following reasons:

1) Apparently finnish legal system views body of trained martial artist "lethal weapon" undependant on time you've actually spent training. As such if you fight vs. unarmed opponent you're assaulting him. :headbang:

2) If you fight vs. armed opponent, you are, at most, allowed to disarm him, after which you are, again, assaulting him. In other words, guy has a knife and attacks you, you can at most kick the knife of his hand and then... Umm, run. If you say, knock him unconscious you're committing assault :rolleyes:

I don't see how any of the scenarios outlined in the OP could be called 'vigilantism'.

Ain't the Finnish system just grand? Too many idealistic idiots in the department of justice who've lost all contact with reality coming up with all kinds of stupid stuff. Sometimes it's so bad it's good (as in funny).

Wow! Not even the real K.I.T.T. was indestructable! =o

Well, nigh-indestructible. Somewhere between nigh-indestructible and ultra-durable.

Something like that. :p